Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] How to backup "everything" on SBT?
diego wrote: > In my experience, and I have used it many times, when you hold the > buttom 10 seconds, it starts factory reset. Does nothing else, even if > you press it longer. But I might be wrong... That's it, pretty much. A short press just does a reboot, and a press-and-hold in the range of around 10 secs to infinity does a factory reset. aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95594 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] How to backup "everything" on SBT?
diego wrote: > In my experience, and I have used it many times, when you hold the > buttom 10 seconds, it starts factory reset. Does nothing else, even if > you press it longer. But I might be wrong... > > > > I can reinstall my old windows 3.1 to my old notebook with the backup > image I have for this purpose any time in case something would mess > up... the SBT is a computer, so it would be nice to have the same > functionality. However, you are right, if a DVD player gets an error in > its firmware, you probably won't get it to work anymore at home either. As has been mentioned you can always load a firmware version from a USB stick or SD card even if the flash is trashed, as long as the equivalent of the BIOS (the boot loader) is intact. If you are woried about logitech not supporting things in the future, grab a version of the firmware you like and put it on a USB stick and keep that in your fireproof safe. (you probably want a CD or stick of the matching server as well) That should keep you going for a LONG time no matter what else happens. If the bootloader gets trashed recovering is a little more difficult. You need to open the Touch up and attach a special cable which attaches to a serial port on your computer running special software that will program a new bootloader into the Touch, not something most users are going to do. Fortunately the probability of the bootloader going bad is VERY low. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95594 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] How to backup "everything" on SBT?
erland wrote: > ... If I remember correctly there are some way which you can force > different kind of resets depending on how long you hold the reset button > on the back of the Touch, but I can't find the information at the > moment, thought it was somewhere on the wiki but I can't find it so if > anybody else knows where it is please let us know... In my experience, and I have used it many times, when you hold the buttom 10 seconds, it starts factory reset. Does nothing else, even if you press it longer. But I might be wrong... erland wrote: > ... Which is basically the same as any other hardware from any other > manufacturer. BIOS upgrades for your computer, operating system upgrades > for your computer, firmware for your router is only updated as long as > the manufacturer supports it. My TV and Receiver comes with the firmware > they have from the factory and there is no easy way to upgrade it at > all... I can reinstall my old windows 3.1 to my old notebook with the backup image I have for this purpose any time in case something would mess up... the SBT is a computer, so it would be nice to have the same functionality. However, you are right, if a DVD player gets an error in its firmware, you probably won't get it to work anymore at home either. diego's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40897 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95594 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] How to backup "everything" on SBT?
diego wrote: > > However, will this enable you to restore everything, if for some reason, > the update servers or whatever is on the internet are not accessible > through the touch? In particular, Firmware / Kernel, Installed Apps...? > Custom firmware can be installed by connecting the Touch a LMS on a computer where you have manually put the correct firmware files in the /updates directory. Unless I've missed something the kernel is part of the firmware. It's also possible to put firmware on a USB stick and insert in into the Touch, it will then upgrade/downgrade to the firmware on the USB stick when it boots. On the Touch itself, it might be a good idea to backup the contents of the /etc/squeezeplay and /etc/squeezecenter directores as they contain all settings which you might want to restore. I think the list of installed Apps might only be stored on mysqueezebox.com, but I'm not completely sure. However, most/all? of the apps are provided through mysqueezebox.com so if Logitech's servers aren't available they aren't going to work anyway. diego wrote: > > What bothers me a bit is, that a factory reset does obviously only > revert settings and apps back to default, but not the firmware. So what > if a nightly firmware or an experimental Kernel messes up the touch, so > that the internal restore tool does not work anymore? How can the thing > be reinstalled from scratch? > If I remember correctly there are some way which you can force different kind of resets depending on how long you hold the reset button on the back of the Touch, but I can't find the information at the moment, thought it was somewhere on the wiki but I can't find it so if anybody else knows where it is please let us know. Of course, if the firmware mess it up really bad so the boot code executed in the beginning of the startup doesn't work, then it's going to be hard for you to correct it yourself. But as long as you only load it with firmware provided by Logitech or Triode I wouldn't worry too much about this as I know they tests these parts a lot to ensure it doesn't cause these kind of issues. I'm not saying the firmware is bug free, I'm just saying that the risk of it containing bugs that makes it impossible to downgrade/upgrade to another firmware version is really low. diego wrote: > > As far as I understand, this is simply a piece of gear made to live as > long as Logitech supports it, and one has to live with that. > Which is basically the same as any other hardware from any other manufacturer. BIOS upgrades for your computer, operating system upgrades for your computer, firmware for your router is only updated as long as the manufacturer supports it. My TV and Receiver comes with the firmware they have from the factory and there is no easy way to upgrade it at all. So the Squeezebox isn't much different than any other hardware in this regard. The only difference is that the Touch uses the mysqueezebox.com service for a lot of its "Apps" functionality, and this would be lost if mysqueezebox.com is shutdown. If Logitech would shutdown mysqueezebox.com (which I'm sure they will not do anytime soon), I trust they would still keep the firmware available, at least for manual download and installation. All this worries in the forum about Logitech completely shutting down mysqueezebox.com is very premature, they simply can't do it as long as they have devices which are within their warranty period, at least not unless they can offer the customers an alternative solution. The Touch with it's built-in server or with a LMS running on a computer will continue to work for locally stored music without mysqueezebox.com, the only issue is that the stuff in the "My Apps" menu is going to stop working unless there is a third party plugin available that provides the same functionality. erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95594 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] How to backup "everything" on SBT?
aubuti wrote: > I haven't used the EDO software so I don't know how it is packaged, but > the simpler and more effective solution for backing up beta 7.8.0 is to > download the 7.8.0 package and then save it and back it up with all the > other files on your pc. Back when I was regularly running nightly betas > that's what I would do -- just in case a nightly release would blow up I > could always rollback to an earlier beta from the stash on my hard > drive. And it's much easier to restore that way than it would be from a > backup image of the Touch, for the reasons John S gave. Thanky aubuti and Mnyb. However, maybe I am a bit slow, but still not fully convinced. Do I understand you right: You just to store all the files that are accessible over SSH the firmware as it is found on http://update.slimdevices.com/update/firmware/7.8.0/ and the server files on http://downloads.slimdevices.com/nightly/?ver=7.8 . However, will this enable you to restore everything, if for some reason, the update servers or whatever is on the internet are not accessible through the touch? In particular, Firmware / Kernel, Installed Apps...? What bothers me a bit is, that a factory reset does obviously only revert settings and apps back to default, but not the firmware. So what if a nightly firmware or an experimental Kernel messes up the touch, so that the internal restore tool does not work anymore? How can the thing be reinstalled from scratch? As far as I understand, this is simply a piece of gear made to live as long as Logitech supports it, and one has to live with that. diego's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40897 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95594 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] How to backup "everything" on SBT?
aubuti wrote: > I haven't used the EDO software so I don't know how it is packaged, but > the simpler and more effective solution for backing up beta 7.8.0 is to > download the 7.8.0 package and then save it and back it up with all the > other files on your pc. Back when I was regularly running nightly betas > that's what I would do -- just in case a nightly release would blow up I > could always rollback to an earlier beta from the stash on my hard > drive. And it's much easier to restore that way than it would be from a > backup image of the Touch, for the reasons John S gave. +1 that's what I do and also saving server packages for rollback . But I've rarely had the need . That leaves how to get the EDO app files and how to use the app installer against ones own hard drive ? Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95594 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] How to backup "everything" on SBT?
diego wrote: > ... I am looking for a way to back up this configuration to be able to > restore it, also, if one day Triode's Test-Kernel #11 or Beta 7.8.0 are > maybe not available online anymore. I haven't used the EDO software so I don't know how it is packaged, but the simpler and more effective solution for backing up beta 7.8.0 is to download the 7.8.0 package and then save it and back it up with all the other files on your pc. Back when I was regularly running nightly betas that's what I would do -- just in case a nightly release would blow up I could always rollback to an earlier beta from the stash on my hard drive. And it's much easier to restore that way than it would be from a backup image of the Touch, for the reasons John S gave. aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95594 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] How to backup "everything" on SBT?
JohnSwenson wrote: > None of the usual backup methods are going to work properly for the > Touch as far as a COMPLETE full exactly as it normally is state ... a > "normal" backup procedure is NOT going to do that. > John S. Thanks indeed John for this very complete explanation! Now... I might be a bit old school... but I don't actually feel very confortable with the idea of being dependant of the internet and Logitech or whoever. I run now Beta 7.8.0 and Triode's EDO with Test Kernel #11. This is the only way that lets me play my stuff over async USB to my DAC, that has a TE8802L based USB input. So... I am looking for a way to back up this configuration to be able to restore it, also, if one day Triode's Test-Kernel #11 or Beta 7.8.0 are maybe not available online anymore. Hopefully this won't be necessary, as hopefully, TE8802, Linux and Logitech will do what is necessary to properly make the whole stuff compatible, but who knows... D. diego's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40897 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95594 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] How to backup "everything" on SBT?
None of the usual backup methods are going to work properly for the Touch as far as a COMPLETE full exactly as it normally is state. The reason for this is that the Touch uses a union file system. In a union filesystem there are multiple physical file systems that are combined at run time to provide what you see. For the Touch it is setup with a read only filesystem which contains the firmware from Logitech and a separate physical filesystem which contain "changes", anything you modify (directly or indirectly) goes in the "change" filesystem. What you see is the union of these two filesystems (its actually more complicated, but that's the easy to understand version). This actually is how the factory restore works, it clears out the "changed" filesystem. So if you use normal backup procedures you will be making a copy of the union filesystem, when you restore it, everything goes in the changed filesystem, not back into the "official" read only filesystem. So lets say you get corruption in the read only system, you restore your backup into the changed filesystem (assuming there is enough space in this filesystem!), everything now works, but if you do a factory reset you blow away the "changed" filesystem and now you are back to pointing at the corrupted read only filesystem! Obviously there are ways to write to the read only filesystem, a firmware change has to do that, but you have to go through special hoops to actually get at the different filesystem and back each one up separately, and on a restore put them back in the correct physical filesystems. It certainly can be done, but a "normal" backup procedure is NOT going to do that. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95594 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] How to backup "everything" on SBT?
aubuti wrote: > Backing up everything seems like overkill to me (especially because > released firmware is available from > http://update.slimdevices.com/update/firmware/). But if you really want > to back up everything the most straightforward way is to enable remote > login on the SBT and then copy all the files over to another device on > your network. You could do the copying using a GUI tool such as WinSCP. > Or you could use standard Linux command line tools like scp. > > EDIT: Also note that the Touch has common "roll your own" command line > backup tools such as tar, gzip, and dd. You can write the backup output > to a USB drive or SD card attached to the Touch. Hi there Aubuti Thanks for that. This is exactly the way I wanted to do it. However, I had a doupt. I am "usually" a windows user, so makes me doupt is, wether there are inaccessable files, like files currently being used, hidden files or system files? This would obviously be the most important to back up. Can all of them be copied correctly over the network? And as importantly: Copied back if needed? I'd still prefer some kind of offline boot solution... some partition cloning/backup tool like norton ghost, clonezilla or whatever similar. diego's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40897 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95594 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] How to backup "everything" on SBT?
Backing up everything seems like overkill to me (especially because released firmware is available from http://update.slimdevices.com/update/firmware/). But if you really want to back up everything the most straightforward way is to enable remote login on the SBT and then copy all the files over to another device on your network. You could do the copying using a GUI tool such as WinSCP. Or you could use standard Linux command line tools like scp. aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95594 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] How to backup "everything" on SBT?
nk7z wrote: > Use Clonezilla... It will give you a mirror perfect image of your > machine. Thank you. I know Clonezilla. How can that be run on a SBT? diego's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40897 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95594 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] How to backup "everything" on SBT?
Use Clonezilla... It will give you a mirror perfect image of your machine. nk7z's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=35473 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95594 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
