date:20021123





  


  

  
  

   

   
   
  "...Paul warned us NOT to continually go on over 
  disputable things. ..."
  Martin Young
   
  Hello Martin,
   
  Until now, there has been only 
  one contributor who gets upset and mad and starts name calling 
  whenever somebody does not agree with him.  It may be that 
  the Holy Spirit is convicting him about some things that he 
  needs to pay attention to.  Why else would he get so 
  irate?  
   
  The other contributors have 
  been mature enough to edify each other 
  with constructive, peaceful discussions in love.  
  
   
ACTS 17:11   These were more noble than 
those in Thessalonica, in that 
they    
received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched 
the    
scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

  

  
  
1JO 3:18    My 
  little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; 
  but    
  in deed and in truth.


 
Love,
 
Marlin

[TruthTalk] Hello

2002-11-23 Thread martin young














The problem with this man is that he is a dyed in the wool 
trouble maker. He will wear you out arguing crap like this until the 
cows come home, You need to pick the topic, and site Scriptures that 
state your case properly, and then go on to the next subject. He is 
here to cause you and your reader's more trouble than good honest 
Christian discussion.
 
Paul warned us NOT to continually go on over 
disputable things. 
 
You have stated your reasons for worshipping on SUnday, and 
this guy has done so for why he wants to continue to worship on 
Saturday, not drop it.
 
Martin Young








  IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - 
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Here

Re: [TruthTalk]Only 9 of the 10 commandments

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  michael 
  douglas 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

  Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 1:07 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]Only 9 of the 10 
  commandments

   Marlin Halverson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  wrote: 

When people say that they do not want the law, 

and that they want to do away with the Old Testement, 

what they really want to do away with is Jesus Christ 

because He is the Word made flesh. (John 
1)

Michael D: When, then, you desire to bring believers in Christ back under 
the law, God condems that. Please read Galatians 
4.

Dear Michael,

It is sinning, disobeying the law, that puts us under 
the law.  Jesus pays the penalty so that we are not condemned to death 
for failing to keep the law when we repent of breaking the law.  
Repentance means to stop sinning.  Sinning puts us back under the 
law.  With repentance, Jesus redeems us that we might receive the 
adoption of sons, and as sons, God sends the Spirit of His Son into our 
hearts, crying abba, Father.  We are not to turn again to sin, to the 
weak and beggarly elements that put us into bondage, in service to them that 
are no gods.  (2Chron 13:9; Isa 37:19; Jer. 2:11).  Weak and 
beggarly elements cannot be a schoolmaster or a shadow of things to 
come.

Please read:
ROM 5:20    Moreover the law entered, 
that the offence might abound. But 
where    
sin abounded, grace did much more abound:ROM 6:1 
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace 
may    
abound?
ROM 6:2 God forbid. How shall 
we, that are dead to sin, live any 
longer    
therein?
JAM 2:17    Even so faith, if it hath 
not works, is dead, being alone.JAM 2:18    Yea, a man 
may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me 
thy    
faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.JAM 
2:19    Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest 
well: the 
devils    
also believe, and tremble.JAM 2:20    But wilt thou know, 
O vain man, that faith without works is dead?JAM 2:21    
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had 
offered    
Isaac his son upon the altar?JAM 2:22    Seest thou how 
faith wrought with his works, and by works was 
faith    
made perfect?JAM 2:23    And the scripture was fulfilled 
which saith, Abraham believed 
God,    
and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was 
called    
the Friend of God.JAM 2:24    Ye see then how that by 
works a man is justified, and not by 
faith    
only.JAM 2:25    Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot 
justified by works, when 
she    
had received the messengers, and had sent [them] out another way?JAM 
2:26    For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith 
without 
works    
is dead also.

Re: [TruthTalk]Only 9 of the 10 commandments

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  michael 
  douglas 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

  Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 1:07 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]Only 9 of the 10 
  commandments

   Marlin Halverson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  wrote: 

When people say that they do not want the law, 

and that they want to do away with the Old Testement, 

what they really want to do away with is Jesus Christ 

because He is the Word made flesh. (John 
1)

Michael D: 
Rom. 10: 4. For Christ is the end of 
the law for righteousness to 
every one that believeth.

Dear Michael,

"end" strongs index #5056 telos, "It never 
denotes merely an end as to time, a termination in and for itself, for which 
another word, teleute(5054), death, is always used" Lexical 
Aids to the New Testament, Zodhiates.

ROM 11:26   And so all Israel shall be 
saved: as it is written, There 
shall    
come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away 
ungodliness    
from Jacob:ROM 11:27   For this [is] my covenant unto them, 
when I shall take away 
their    
sins. (Isa. 59:20-21; 27:9; Jer 31:33-34 NT reference to OT)
ROM 13:9    For this, Thou shalt not 
commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, 
Thou    
shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt 
not    
covet; and if [there be] any other commandment, it is 
briefly    
comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy 
neighbour    
as thyself. 
(Exo 20:13-17; Deu 5:17-21; Lev 19:18 NT affirmation 
of OT 10 Commandments)ROM 13:10   Love worketh no ill to his 
neighbour: therefore love [is] 
the    
fulfilling of the law.
REV 12:17   And the dragon was wroth with 
the woman, and went to make war 
with    
the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, 
and    
have the testimony of Jesus Christ.REV 14:12   Here is the 
patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep 
the    
commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
REV 22:14   Blessed [are] they that do his 
commandments, that they may 
have    
right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates 
into    
the city.REV 22:15   For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, 
and whoremongers, 
and    
murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a 
lie.

Love,

Marlin

Re: [TruthTalk] Only 9 of the 10 commandments?

You, Marlin, don't keep the Sabbath in the Old Testament 100% therefore you are guilty of all.  You will have to stone me to death because I reject your teaching as false doctrine.  Marlin, condemns others for not keeping the Sabbath and Marlin, doesn't keep the Sabbath.

You say the same old same old and ignore posts that refute Old Testament keeping.  I hope Martin will join TT for a short while, as he used to keep the Sabbath before he saw the light.



Hello Michael,
 
I have always took this to apply to those of us who keep God's Sabbaths and holy days, with attention to God's lunar based calendar who were being judged by the kind of people who were judging Jesus.  Paul did not say to let no man judge you for NOT keeping the Sabbaths.  He said not to let others judge you in respect of the holy days, new moons, and Sabbaths, the things that Colossians were doing.  Paul never said that these days had been changed to Sunday worship, or to some other holidays invented by men.
 
Love,
 
Marlin

- Original Message - 
From: michael douglas 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Only 9 of the 10 commandments?


 Marlin Halverson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
Do they not rread in Colossians 2, [? Who is not reading?]
 
Michael D:  I humbly submit that it seems like these commentators aren't, neither are you. Read Colossians 2:  
16.  Let no man therefore judge you in meat or in drink or in respect of a holy day, on of the new moon, or of the sabbath days . 
 
Notice the 'days' are in italics in the KJV. Sounds familiar to me... Doesn't it?

Re: [TruthTalk] Only 9 of the 10 commandments?




Hello Michael,
 
I have always took this to apply to those of us who keep 
God's Sabbaths and holy days, with attention to God's lunar based calendar who 
were being judged by the kind of people who were judging Jesus.  Paul did 
not say to let no man judge you for NOT keeping the Sabbaths.  He said not 
to let others judge you in respect of the holy days, new moons, and Sabbaths, 
the things that Colossians were doing.  Paul never said that these days had 
been changed to Sunday worship, or to some other holidays invented by 
men.
 
Love,
 
Marlin

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  michael 
  douglas 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 2:48 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Only 9 of the 10 
  commandments?
  
   
   Marlin Halverson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  wrote: 
  

Do they not rread in Colossians 2, [? Who is not reading?]
 
Michael 
D:  I humbly submit 
that it seems like these commentators aren't, neither are you. Read 
Colossians 2:  
16.  Let no man therefore judge you in meat or 
in drink or in respect of a holy day, on of the new moon, or of 
the sabbath days . 
 
Notice the 'days' are in italics in the KJV. Sounds 
familiar to me... Doesn't it?
 
 
  
  
  
  With Yahoo! Mail you can get a bigger mailbox -- choose a 
  size that fits your needs

Re: [TruthTalk] Fwd: Truth Talk

2002-11-23 Thread CHamm56114

In a message dated 11/23/2002 8:46:22 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:



I leave these type of people alone, because they will wear you out with their fear of going to hell for not keeping the Sabbath.


So Martin   Are you here yet???  I am really interested in this Sabbath discussion.  It seems like several of us feel that it is no big deal what day you observe but some seem to think we who observe the Sabbath on Sunday aand living in sin.  Laura

[TruthTalk] Fwd: Truth Talk

I have asked Prophet Martin to join TT.  He used to observe the Sabbath until he found the truth in God's word.  If you think I am rough, you haven't seen anything yet.  

In a message dated 11/23/2002 9:42:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Subj:Re: Truth Talk 
Date:11/23/2002 9:42:56 PM Eastern Standard Time
From:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent from the Internet 

My question for these people is this: What does the Bible say that I MUST DO to be saved?

Acts 16:30  And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Acts 16:31  And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Acts 16:32  And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

Rom 10:9  That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10  For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Eph 2:8  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9  Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Gal 5:4  Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are (trying to be) justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Gal 5:5  For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

Jews and Seventh-day Adventist are so hung up on keeping the Sabbath to the point that the believe that one MUST keep it in other to be saved. They will site the verse, "If you love Me, keep my commandments!" 

I site:

Rom 14:5  One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6  He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it.

This sounds pretty much like Paul is telling us, being a former Rabbi, and NOW a Christian, that God is NOT interested in the day so much that we keep, but, that our heart's and that whatever we do, "we do all for the glory of God." 

I leave these type of people alone, because they will wear you out with their fear of going to hell for not keeping the Sabbath.

Martin

I wish you would join TT.  There is a guy on there claiming we must observe the Sabbath.  He is not a 7th Day Adventist but he worships with them some.  He is a person who claims to have accepted Christ but will not wear the name Christian.

--- Begin Message ---

  My question for these people is this: What does the Bible say that I 
  MUST DO to be saved?

  Acts 16:30  And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?Acts 
  16:31  And they said, Believe on the 
  Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy 
  house.Acts 16:32  And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, 
  and to all that were in his house.

  Rom 10:9  That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord 
  Jesus, and shalt believe in thine 
  heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou 
  shalt be saved.Rom 10:10  For with 
  the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with 
  the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
  Eph 2:8  For by grace are ye 
  saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is 
  the gift of God:Eph 2:9  Not of works, lest any man should 
  boast.
  Gal 5:4  Christ is become of no effect unto you, 
  whosoever of you are (trying to 
  be) justified by the law; ye are fallen from 
  grace.Gal 5:5  For we through the Spirit wait 
  for the hope of righteousness by 
  faith.

  Jews and Seventh-day Adventist are so hung 
  up on keeping the Sabbath to the point that the believe that one MUST keep 
  it in other to be saved. They will site the verse, "If you love Me, keep 
  my commandments!" 

  I site:

  Rom 14:5  One man esteemeth one day above 
  another: another esteemeth every day 
  alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own 
  mind.Rom 14:6  He that regardeth the day, regardeth 
  it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth 
  not regard it.

  This sounds pretty much like Paul is telling us, being a former 
  Rabbi, and NOW a Christian, that God is NOT interested in the day so much 
  that we keep, but, that our heart's and that whatever we do, "we do all 
  for the glory of God." 

  I leave these type of people alone, because they will wear you out 
  with their fear of going to hell for not keeping the Sabbath.

  Martin

  ---Original Message---

  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Saturday, 
  November 23, 2002 05:47:27 PM
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Truth 
  Talk

Re: [TruthTalk] Xmas

I didn't read what you sent because you don't follow the whole Old Testament law on the Sabbath.  Therefore you are condemning others and not following the whole law yourself.  He who is guilty of one point of the law is guilty of breaking all the law.  

I did go to the bottom and find what I said.  The doctrine of origins is a lie.  You are following the doctrine of origins and therefore you are following a lie.

Re: [TruthTalk] Xmas





Drew Draws Truth 
[The link and original transcript for the following story 
was sent by T. Parker. This version of the transcript was prepared by Brian 
Hoeck] 
Drew Carey, unconventional Hollywood comedic star, was seen May 
4th at the White House Correspondents' Annual Association dinner.  The 
event gathered President George Bush and guests from every corner of Hollywood, 
media and government. Whether knowingly or inadvertently (we do not know) Drew 
testified some truth to the full house at the Washington Hilton International 
Ballroom :    "I can't watch the news lately. I know 
everybody, you know---I recognize alot of people who watch the news. It gets so 
depressing.  I mean, I just get depressed watching the news. You know what 
I do when I watch the news now? I turn the news off. I get out my bible. 
I turn to the book of Revelation and I start just checking stuff off. You know? 
Got it, got it, need it, got it, got it, need it. Red Dragon, seven horns, ten 
crowns--got it. Ozzy Osborne: American's favorite t.v. dad--got it.  Oh 
man. 20 millions dollars, huh?  You know that is barely gonna pay for your 
kids' therapy. I don't know why---that money's gonna be down the drain." 
   "Yeah, I read the bible a lot, you know---this is 
crazy---we celebrate holidays in the United States.  I found out 
just recently there are so many religious holidays we celebrate here in this 
country that have nothing to do with the bible at all.  Real famous 
holidays, like Christmas---Christmas has nothing---it's not in the Bible. 
The birth of Jesus is in the Bible, but not Christmas.  The tree's not 
in the Bible, you know, gifts---that's not---there's nowhere that says, 
'Celebrate My birthday, says Jesus.'  It's just we---it's a pagan holiday 
that the Romans invented that we just do!  But everywhere you go, I'm 
telling you, I've seen this so many times, you see a big nativity scene and 
there's baby Jesus, the manger, sheep, shepherds, wisemen, Mary, Joseph--Santa 
Claus right in the middle.  Like, who's that? Mary's Lamaze coach?? 
 Santa Claus has nothing to do with anything.  Neither does the 
Easter Bunny---Easter is another pagan holiday that's not in the Bible. 
 Every Easter you don't hear anything about Jesus on the cross.  All 
you hear is about the Easter bunny. The Easter bunny this, the Easter bunny 
that.  Why is the Christian religion the only one in the world that needs a 
mascot to sell their stuff?  You don't see Jewish people out celebrating 
with the Passover kangaroo!  There's no Ramadan rooster!" 
   "Halloween's another big holiday---Satanic 
holiday---nobody's bothered by that for some reason.  You know, fun for 
the kiddies!!  I mean, when I was going to church they always told me, you 
know,  Satan's the most evil one - he's the one you must watch out for. 
Watch out for Satan. And then, once per year the whole country says, 'Hey, let's 
party with this guy!'  It's ridiculous!!!"   There's a Catholic 
Church down my street that used to have Halloween parties every year. Of course 
they don't have them anymore because they don't want the priests to hand out 
candies to kids." ~ (Drew Carey, White House Correspondents' Association Annual 
Dinner in Washington D.C. Saturday May 4, 2002) 
Leviticus 19:30 and Lev26:2 saY  "Ye shall keep 
my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the 
LORD." 

Video On The Net: White 
House Correspondents' Association Annual Dinner Saturday, May 04, 2002 
 -   Washington, DC Speakers include President Bush, Comedian 
Drew Carey, WHCA President Steve Holland, and excerpts from past dinners and the 
live program, from the Washington Hilton International Ballroom. Length: 2 
hr. 30 min.  -- 
http://video.c-span.org:8080/ramgen/gdrive/e050402_dinner.rm?start=:37.4&end=2:33:19.0 

Ezekiel 22:26  Her priests have violated my law, and 
have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and 
profane, neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean, 
and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among 
them. 
Source: TRUTH ON THE WEB MINISTRIES -- WWW.TRUTHONTHEWEB.ORG 
 

  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 7:14 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Xmas
  The 
  answer to your Christmas problem is the "doctrine of origins".  There is 
  nothing in the Bible that says it is a sin IF IT IS NOT IN THE 
  BIBLE.
  The first part of Jeremiah 10 sure sounds like a Christmas 
tree.  Laterverses could show that it is some kind of a carved 
object, an image.  Irealize this.But why is it that we 
observe things that are not in the Bible and do notobserve the things 
that are in the Bible?

Re: [TruthTalk] Only 9 of the 10 commandments?




David Miller wrote:> I think observing passover and 
the feast of unleavened bread is wonderful.> Paul, being a Jew, kept 
these feasts and taught their application to the> believer.  I have 
been in Israel during Passover and the feast of unleavened> bread, and 
the imagery is fantastic when you have all these hotel owners and> 
restaurant owners washing all their things outside, getting rid of every 
bit> of leaven.  People meticulously vacuum their cars to make sure 
every bit of> leaven is gone.  When a person understands how this 
leaven represents sin,> to see all the industry given to making sure the 
leaven is all gone, how> clear it becomes that we must put away every 
speck of sin that might be> residing somewhere in our lives.> 

You have eyes to see this.  To me, God's holy days 
make sense.  Man's counterfeit holidays are empty.  
--Marlin
> I have Jewish friends who are not 
Christian.  During Passover and the feast> I was visiting one of 
these friends in Israel.  I asked him if he knew why> the Scriptures 
told them to get rid of the leaven.  Did he know why they> were 
doing all this.  He said no, only that the Torah says to do it.  
You> should have seen his eyes widen when I explained how our 
Christian> perspective is that the leaven represents sin, and therefore, 
when we come> to Christ who is the true passover lamb, we must 
immediately put forth all> the leaven (sin) in our lives and enter into 
his rest.  He has lived in this> culture his whole life and never 
heard that.  In my culture, people don't> understand what it takes 
to get rid of all the leaven in the household.> Bringing these cultures 
together is wonderful I think.
 
You have eyes to see this.  But, how can you enter 
into His rest without keeping the seventh day holy?  Sin is the 
transgression of the law.  Unleavened Bread represents sin during those 
days.  The flat bread of sincerity and truth shows that we are not to be 
all puffed up in our own conceit, but humble.  So how can we spiritualize 
away the holy Sabbaths of God with the ideas of men and try to say that the 
Sabbaths are every day?  When do we labor and do all of our work on the six 
days?  How can we remember a day that is spiritualized into being every 
day?  And worse of all, pick the day of Sun worshippers to keep holy in 
fellowship? --Marlin
> > The article said:> > Paul 
carries his instruction even further, showing that> > we have to keep 
the Sabbath or lose salvation.> > "For he that is entered into His 
rest [keeping the Sabbath],> > He also has ceased from his own works, 
as God did> > from His [when He created the Sabbath day]"> 
> Do you believe this Marlin, that if we don't literally observe Saturday 
that> we will lose salvation?
 
Jesus, and most likely, Paul, answer this question in 
these two verses:
JOHN 9:41    Jesus said unto them, {If ye 
were blind, ye should have no sin: 
but    now ye 
say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.}HEB 10:26   For if we 
sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge 
of    the 
truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
> > Do you not recognize that the author of Hebrews was talking 
about a rest> other than Saturday observance?  Surely you are not 
blind to this spiritual> insight.
 
The author of Hebrews, inspired by the Holy Spirit, was 
using Sabbath keeping, which was being kept by the Hebrews, to show the 
substance of other truths.  The author was referencing Psalm 95, especially 
verses 7,8, and 11, a song which is all about the meaning of the Sabbaths, Gen 
2:2, and Numbers 14.
 
1) to show that we should not be as those who came out of the 
bondage of Egypt and did not enter into the promised land because of 
unbelief.
 
2) to show in Heb 4:11, that we believers should "LABOR" (work) "to 
enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example 
of unbelief."  
 
3) To show, using the Sabbaths, that there is a rest that 
"remaineth" to the people of God.  (Heb 4:9).  I believe these to be 
the promises of eternal life and the millennial reign of Christ on the 
earth.  (The meek shall inherit the earth.)  Heb 4:11 shows that the 
rest has not yet come to pass for the people of God.
 
4) To show that the WORD of God is judging the intents of our hearts 
TODAY.  (Heb 4:12-13)
 
NUM 14:22   Because all those men which have seen my glory, and 
my 
miracles,    
which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have tempted me 
now    these 
ten times, and have not hearkened to my voice;NUM 14:23   Surely 
they shall not see the land which I sware unto 
their    
fathers, neither shall any of them that provoked me see it:
NUM 14:29   Your carcases shall fall in this wilderness; and all 
that were    
numbered of you, according to your whole number, from twenty 
years    old 
and upward, which have murmured against me,NUM 14:31   But your 
little ones, which ye said should be a prey, them will 
I    bring

Re: [TruthTalk] Only 9 of the 10 commandments?

 
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Re: [TruthTalk] Only 9 of the 10 commandments?

Marlin, YOU, that's YOU, do NOT, that's do NOT, keep the Old Testament Sabbath completely.  YOU, that's' YOU, condemn yourself by not completely keeping the Old Testament Sabbath.  
YOU MUST STONE ME TO DEATH TO KEEP THE OLD TESTAMENT SABBATH.  I reject the Old Testament Sabbath.  
Has Satan blinded you or has your stubbornness which is as witchcraft blinded you?   

On the contrary, the Sabbath, made for man, establishes our relationship with Jesus because it is the special time He has asked us to keep holy for fellowshipping with Him.  We show our love for God by obeying His commandments.

Re: [TruthTalk] Only 9 of the 10 commandments?




Michael D: ".walking in the spirit"
So then, if I walk in the spirit I am a law breaker? 
--Marlin
 
Michael D: "These folks just refuse to see that God's sabbath is not a day, 
but a relationship of faith in Jesus Christ."  
 
HEB 4:7 Again, he limiteth 
a certain day, saying in David, To day, after 
so    long a 
time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his 
voice,    
harden not your hearts.HEB 4:8 For if Jesus had 
given them rest, then would he not afterward 
have    
spoken of another day.HEB 4:9 There 
remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
 
Michael D: "...the seventh day rest that God undertook, is 
not now accomplished by faith in Christ. ..." 
How does faith in Christ keep the fourth commandment, the 
one God said to remember?
 
Michael D: "...these 
folks...refute the transition from the day, to the relationship with 
Jesus)."
 
I can find plenty of evidence of God's people keeping the 
weekly Sabbath and holy day Sabbaths after Jesus died on the cross, but there is 
no scriptural evidence of a change in the Sabbath commandment, and no scriptural 
evidence of a "transition."
 
On the contrary, the Sabbath, made for 
man, establishes our relationship with Jesus because it is the 
special time He has asked us to keep holy for fellowshipping with 
Him.  We show our love for God by obeying His commandments.
 
JOH 14:15   {If ye love me, keep my 
commandments.}JOH 14:21   {He that hath my commandments, and 
keepeth them, he it is 
that    
loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and 
I    will 
love him, and will manifest myself to him.}JOH 15:10   {If ye keep 
my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as 
I    have 
kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.}
REV 22:14   Blessed [are] they that do his 
commandments, that they may 
have    right 
to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates 
into    the 
city.
 
This idea of a "transition" is a doctrine of men; it is 
not in the bible.
 
--Marlin

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  michael 
  douglas 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 8:46 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Only 9 of the 10 
  commandments?
  
  Michael D:   Marlin, usually, I will not read 
  someone's commentary presented in answer to my comments in these discussions, 
  because I am not interested in what any authority's 
  position, but on what I see in the scriptures.  For instance, to say that 
  Chrisrians have to keep the sabbath, and not only that, but all of the 
  sabbaths, leads me to wonder at the level of deception these people are 
  existing. (I do not say that to be unkind, but out of deep concern). Do they 
  not rread in Colossians 2, where Paul says let no man judge you conc3erning 
  keeping the sabbath(s), which were only a shadow of things to come, but not 
  the true, but the body is of christ? Where do these folks get off 
  contradicting the Gospel of Christ and putting people in bondage that Christ 
  paid to free us from? That is deep deception. 
  The fact that Paul said that the sabbaths are a 
  shadow, and not the real, is the 
  basis of the NT teaching that the sabbath was a type of our rest in Christ, 
  through faith. For these folks to condemn that is to deny the salvation that 
  is in Christ alone, and to nullify His work on the cross for us. 
  Now, why would any one want the shadow and not the 
  real, I don't know. 
   Marlin Halverson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  wrote: 
  

"...because the commandment of Sabbath 
in the NT is our rest in Jesus as I previously mentioned re Hebrews 
4."
 
The following 
is from: http://www.cbcg.org/true_sabbath.doc --Marlin
 

"Many 
ministers and theologians have applied the opposite meaning to Hebrews 
4:9.  They have completely 
misinterpreted the King James Version of this verse, which reads, There 
remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.  They teach that Christians are no 
longer required to observe the Sabbath because Jesus Christ has given them 
rest by releasing them from commandment keeping and thereby He fulfilled 
the law for them.  As a result, 
they are told that he or she has entered into a spiritual rest from sin 
and does not have to keep the commandments of God.  Such 
reasoning is completely false???   Jesus Himself said that He did not 
come to abolish or do away with the laws and commandments of God, but to 
fulfill them.  Did 
you read I Tim 1, that I shared in a previous post? It says that there 
are people who want to use the law, but miss it altogether. Paul said that 
the law is good if a man use it lawfully. It was not made for a righteous 
man but for sinners. Did you consider that at 
all? Neither did Jesus Christ fulfill any commandment for 
anyone in order to release him or her

Re: [TruthTalk] The Father as man

 
 michael douglas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

 
 Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
  
michael douglas wrote: 






"...he that hath seen me hath seen the Father;.."  Jn 14:9  Where in this verse does it say that The Father is an exalted man?
DAVEH:  It doesn't.  What it suggests is that Jesus' Father was not a nebulous spirit without form or body.
Michael D: What makes you think that spirits are nebulous Dave H?
  Let me ask you a question, Michael.do you believe Jesus' Father was exalted being at the time Jesus spoke this, or do you believe he was (is) a spirit without a body or form? 
Michael D: you have to explain to me what you mean by exalted before I can answer this.DAVEH:  Do Protestants use the term "exalted" in relation to God?  If so, how do you understand it? 
    From my LDS perspective, exaltation infers a lot.  To simplify it though, it refers to those resurrected people who reach the highest kingdom (Celestial) of heaven. Michael D: Am I then to understand that LDS teach that the Father is a resurrected man who has reached the highest kingdom, and therefore is exalted? With Yahoo! Mail you can get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs

Re: [TruthTalk] Only 9 of the 10 commandments?

 
 Marlin Halverson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Do they not rread in Colossians 2, [? Who is not reading?]
 
Michael D:  I humbly submit that it seems like these commentators aren't, neither are you. Read Colossians 2:  
16.  Let no man therefore judge you in meat or in drink or in respect of a holy day, on of the new moon, or of the sabbath days . 
 
Notice the 'days' are in italics in the KJV. Sounds familiar to me... Doesn't it?
 
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Re: [TruthTalk]Only 9 of the 10 commandments

Marlin, what say ye? Are you going to address each comment here? Prove me wrong, for I say, you cannot and will not REFUTE each verse and comment.

Marlin Halverson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
When people say that they do not want the law,
and that they want to do away with the Old Testement,
what they really want to do away with is Jesus Christ
because He is the Word made flesh. (John 1)

Michael D: Marlin, I think you have to be careful in how you represent what people say... No one wants to do away with the Old Testament. It is God's Word. Jesus said that they testify of Him.
The fact is that the OT did not usher in the age of grace through faith, by which we are justified by God. what I find though is that you are neglecting the clear teaching of the NT to hold on to OT types and shadows as requirements from God when God says something totally different.

Rom. 10: 4. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Rom. 9: 31. But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32. Wherefore, because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone...

Rom. 7: 4. Wherefore, my brethren, ye are also become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit to God.

Rom. 3:19. Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20. Therefore, by the deeds of the law there shall shall no flesh be justified in His sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets.

Now, Marlin, I can go on and on, but I think that the passages quoted are more than adequate to show, that the law had its place, but not for the Church.
Paul says Rom. 6: 14. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Now if you, or any one else, want to put yourself under the law, that's clearly your choice, but Paul clearly says that everything (without exception) that the law says is said to those who are under the law. He said that no one is justified by the works of the law. So don't be mistaken, if one depends on the law, he cannot attain to the righteousness of God.
And finally, I Timothy 1:

7. Desiring to be teachers of the law: understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. 8. But we know that the law is good if a man use it lawfully; 9. Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane... 10. ...and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 11. According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God , which was committed to my trust.

When, then, you desire to bring believers in Christ back under the law, God condems that.
Please read Galatians 4.
For example, vs 21. Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
vs. 30. Nevertheless what saith the Scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bond woman shalll not be heir with the son of the free woman.
Unfortunately, this is what God will do to all who hold on to the bond woman. Gal 5:4.
There is alot to ponder here Marlin.

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Re: [TruthTalk]Only 9 of the 10 commandments

Marlin Halverson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

When people say that they do not want the law,
and that they want to do away with the Old Testement,
what they really want to do away with is Jesus Christ
because He is the Word made flesh. (John 1)
Michael D: Marlin, I think you have to be careful in how you represent what people say... No one wants to do away with the Old Testament. It is God's Word. Jesus said that they testify of Him.
The fact is that the OT did not usher in the age of grace through faith, by which we are justified by God. what I find though is that you are neglecting the clear teaching of the NT to hold on to OT types and shadows as requirements from God when God says something totally different.
Rom. 10: 4. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Rom. 9: 31. But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32. Wherefore, because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone...
Rom. 7: 4. Wherefore, my brethren, ye are also become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit to God.
Rom. 3:19. Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20. Therefore, by the deeds of the law there shall shall no flesh be justified in His sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets.
Now, Marlin, I can go on and on, but I think that the passages quoted are more than adequate to show, that the law had its place, but not for the Church.
Paul says Rom. 6: 14. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Now if you, or any one else, want to put yourself under the law, that's clearly your choice, but Paul clearly says that everything (without exception) that the law says is said to those who are under the law. He said that no one is justified by the works of the law. So don't be mistaken, if one depends on the law, he cannot attain to the righteousness of God.
And finally, I Timothy 1:
7. Desiring to be teachers of the law: understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. 8. But we know that the law is good if a man use it lawfully; 9. Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane... 10. ...and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 11. According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God , which was committed to my trust.
When, then, you desire to bring believers in Christ back under the law, God condems that.
Please read Galatians 4.
For example, vs 21. Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
vs. 30. Nevertheless what saith the Scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bond woman shalll not be heir with the son of the free woman.
Unfortunately, this is what God will do to all who hold on to the bond woman. Gal 5:4.
There is alot to ponder here Marlin.
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Re: [TruthTalk] Question for Dave H

Michael D: I need to clarify the reference I used for these posts to Dave H. The Book of Mormon verses were quoted in post dated 10/3/2002 by Dave H from Moroni 8:9-23, I believe, and not from Nephi as I had previously mentioned. So references I made to Nephi in these discussions are really to Moroni. Sorry for any confusion. I believe Moroni is the one represented by the angel placed on Mormon temples (from what I have read on TT).
michael douglas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
michael douglas wrote:
Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
michael douglas wrote:
>[17] And I am filled with charity, which is everlasting love; wherefore, all children are alike unto me; wherefore, I love little >children with a perfect love; and they are all alike and partakers of salvation. >[18] For I know that God is not a partial God, neither a changeable being; but he is unchangeable from all eternity to all eternity.
Also, Nephi seems to directly contradict Paul.
I Cor 7:14. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean, but now they are holy.
Clearly, Nephi's claim of all children being the same to God can't be true. What say you?DAVEH: Are you suggesting that Paul was saying that the "unclean" children would be destined for hell, Michael?
Michael D: My only point in raising this is that what Nephi says about God, and what Paul says are in great contradiction. Do you agree with that?DAVEH: No, not at all. To understand them in a contradictory way would require one to think that being 'unclean' (as Paul meant here) means an automatic trip to hell. Is that what you believe, Michael? IOW, if one of those unclean children had died, he would be condemned to hell without a chance of Christ redemptive grace.Is that correct?
Michael D: Dave H, The question here is that an emphatic statement by Nephi, is contradictory to a clearly stated one by Paul. It would be interesting to get your/the LDS explanation on it. I really would appreciate that.With Yahoo! Mail you can get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs

Re: [TruthTalk] Question for Dave H