Re: [TruthTalk] Carnality
Bruce: As I said before, by choosing your verses carefully, you paint a picture that sounds good, even scriptural, but the Holy Spirit keeps whispering in my ear that what you are telling me is wrong, so let me quibble with you a bit. 1. I went back and looked up every reference to reprobate and reprobates, and to me, they sound an awful lot like what you are calling carnal Christians. I am not arguing that there are no carnal Christians. Only that they must be babes in Christ who are ignorant of what our Lord expects of His followers 2. I am not adding to God's word. I am simply trying to understand it. He knows my heart and He knows I am searching, not modifying. 3.In Matthew 6:24, Jesus does not say This part is only for twelve men. He says it is for ANY man that wants to follow Him. This message was for every person who reads the words, those you call the multitudes. 4. If Jesus Christ is your Savior, He is your Lord, your God. He is not a magic lamp that you put on a shelf and ignore until needed. If you do not take up your cross, deny yourself, and follow Him, there is a very real question as to whether or not you even have faith 5. Jesus has said,I will never leave or forsake you. You can take that to the bank. But Jesus has never said that you cannot forsake Him. He is able to keep us, but He will not force us to stay. 6. The very fact that they did not RETAIN God would indicate to me that reprobates were once people who professed to believe. Like John says, They went out from us because they were not of us. They talked the talk., but they did not endure. What I guess I am saying is the easy salvation you are teaching is something I just cannot swallow. It sticks about half way down, and it tastes more like the wide road than the narrow path. I think I will continue to work out my own salvation with fear and trembling. Terry Dear Terry, In response to my last post, you wrote:Sounds good and sounds scriptural, but I do not believe it. Jesus said, deny self, follow me. Carnal people are not doing that. Jesus said , Why do you call Me Lord when you do not do as I tell you to do? He is not the Lord of people whose life reflects a long time pattern of disobedience. There is some point known only to God when He turns them over to a reprobate mind and writes them off. I cannot prove that with one verse or ten verses, but the entire word of God adds up to that. Brother, I am thoroughly convinced that: -The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6 - Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. Proverbs 30:5,6 - Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. I Corinthians 2:12,13 So let us consider what you have said in light of what the very words of scripture SAY: Yes, in Matthew 16:24 Jesus said unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. Brother, notice a number of things about this text: -TO WHOM it was spoken: It was spoken to his disciples, NOT to the multitudes! -WHAT was spoken: If any man will come after me... NOT if any man will be saved! The prerequisites for salvation are faith and repentance, NOT denying one's self, taking up one's cross, and following Christ. Those were the requirements for those who would come after Christ. -WHEN these words were spoken: They were spoken PRIOR TO CALVARY AND THE CRUCIFIXION. Anyone who takes up their cross, has not yet been crucified! But once the Lord Jesus was crucified at Calvary (and we were crucified there with Him Gal.2:20) no one is ever again told to take up their cross! The word translated deny is found 13 times in scripture from Matthew 16:24 to John 13:38 but is never mentioned again AFTER the crucifixion of Christ! A new covenant believer is never instructed to deny himself. But he IS given many other instructions relative to himself: Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. Romans 14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. 1 Corinthians 3:18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. 1 Corinthians 11:28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. 1 Corinthians 11:29 For
[TruthTalk] Being a better slave
\o/ !HALALUYah! \o/ Greetings in the Matchless NameofYahShua!! "The more the ignorance, the better the slave ... " from Independence Day speech of Edmund Fairfield, President of Hillsdale College Rather than refute all of Judy's drivel I'll just settle on a couple. If she does not admit her error after that then I'll cast no more pearls before her. Judy: If you want to work in other than an agrarian field you will need a SSN; if you want to travel with a valid passport or enter this country legally you will need a SSN; this is the truth... Your "truth" is a lie. Bruce already refuted the second part. I'll take the first. My son works in construction for a contractor and has NO SSN. I am a journalist (among other things) working with NO SSN. Neither of these is an "agrarian field". I know many personally working in non-agrarian fields with NO SSN. The following AFFIDAVIT comes in handy. AFFIDAVIT Pursuant to IRC 6109(a)(3), this AFFIDAVIT is to serve notice of the facts herein stated, and that I have complied fully with my obligation as an employer, and have requested the SSN of the herein named individual. Pursuant to 26 C.F.R. 301.6109-1(c): If he does not know the taxpayer identifying number of the other person, he shall request such number of the other person. A request should state that the identifying number is required to be furnished under the authority of law. When the person filing the return, statement or other document does not know the number of the other person, and has complied with the request provision of this paragraph, he shall sign an affidavit on the transmittal document forwarding such returns, statement or other documents to the Internal Revenue Service so stating. I have requested the SSN of , but have been unable to obtain his SSN. Such number is not available because the individual does not apparently have an SSN. Please accept this AFFIDAVIT as notice that I have met the requirements of the tax code with respect to attempting to obtain the herein named employees SSN. Affirmed and Attested By: DATED this___ day of, 2003
Re: [TruthTalk] Being a better slave
"Chris Barr" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "The more the ignorance, the better the slave ... " from Independence Day speech of Edmund Fairfield, President of Hillsdale College Rather than refute all of Judy's drivel I'll just settle on a couple. If she does not admit her error after that then I'll cast no more pearls before her. Judy: Are you talking to me or about me Chris? I can't believe you call all this talk about evading responsibility pearls... I wrote: If you want to work in other than an agrarian field you will need a SSN; if you want to travel with a valid passport or enter this country legally you will need a SSN; this is the truth... Chris: Your "truth" is a lie. Bruce already refuted the second part. I'll take the first. My son works in construction for a contractor and has NO SSN. I am a journalist (among other things) working with NO SSN. Neither of these is an "agrarian field". Judy: Let me say then that I had to have a SSN to work in this country. When I said agrarian I was thinking about the Amish and Mennonites but if construction workers and journalists also want to flaunt the law- Oh well! The affidavit proves nothing other than an employer who is unable to get this information is covering his own rear end whichin and of itself does not prove that the employee is free from this responsibility. Big font - flashy colors - and Hebrew words don't cut it Chris. Jesus said "If you love me you will do what I say" and the example he left us was to pay tax and render unto Caesar what belongs to Caesar. Judy Judy
RE: [TruthTalk] Carnality
Dear David, When I wrote: The word translated deny is found 13 times in scripture from Matthew 16:24 to John 13:38 but is never mentioned again AFTER the crucifixion of Christ!... You responded: I'm not sure what you are trying to say, Bruce. First, the word is mentioned after the crucifixion in the following verse: For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, DENYING ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee. (Titus 2:11-15 KJV) But even if it was not, don't you think that the doctrine of Christ can be found in the gospels? What are you trying to say? What are you trying to argue? What's the bottom line? Do you disagree with the teaching that we are to deny self, meaning, deny worldly lusts of the flesh? David these are good questions! Let me start with answering the last one first and maybe that will help you to see where i'm coming from. Yes, brother, I do disagree! Denying self and denying ungodliness and worldly lusts are not synonymous. DENYING SELF was for those contemporaries of the Lord Jesus during his earthly ministry who were dealing with self life on the way to crucifixion, prior to death. Our DENYING UNGODLINESS AND WORLDLY LUSTS is dealing with defilement and corruption after death has taken place! (Our death to sin and the the law took place in Christ at Calvary!) The word denying in Titus 2 is Strong's # 720 ARNEOMAI. But the word deny in the Gospels is Strong's #533 APARNEOMAI. The latter is the strengthened form of the former. The former is used primarily of contradicting by word. But the latter was used primarily of rejecting people, especially one's self as one was taking up their cross and following Christ to execution by crucifixion! It is for this reason that I said no new covenant believer is called to deny themself, take up their cross, crucify themselves, put themselves to death, or to die to self! That was accomplished in Christ at Calvary! But what we ARE to deny, as new covenant believers, is NOT OURSELVES, but ungodliness and worldy lusts. We have already died, having been crucified with Christ. (Gal.2:20) That can never be repeated, nor is it an ongoing process. But what is to be an ongoing process is the denial of ungodliness and worldly lusts (Titus 2) This is in complete harmony with Col.3:3 and 5. We ARE DEAD. (v.3) We cannot continue to put ourselves to death! But what we are commanded to do is to mortify (put to death) our members which are upon the earth: fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence and covetousness, which is idolatry. (v.5) These truths are also set forth in Romans 6.(Below). Notice that the statements which I have started at the left hand are truths that took place at Calvary, they are what God has accomplished. The statements which are set further to the right are those which are ongoing responsibilities of believers. Another way to consider these are that those on the left have to do with our crucifixion with Christ and death to sin and to the law. Those further to the right have to do with our denying ungodliness and worldly lusts 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, -that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. 8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11 -Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 12 -Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 -Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 15
[TruthTalk] A Great Read
http://www.mercyseat.net/BROCHURES/ssnarticle.htm
Re: [TruthTalk] Carnality
Hi Terry, You wrote:As I said before, by choosing your verses carefully, you paint a picture that sounds good, even scriptural, but the Holy Spirit keeps whispering in my ear that what you are telling me is wrong, so let me quibble with you a bit. 1. I went back and looked up every reference to reprobate and reprobates, and to me, they sound an awful lot like what you are calling carnal Christians. I am not arguing that there are no carnal Christians. Only that they must be babes in Christ who are ignorant of what our Lord expects of His followers. (I (almost) agree with you that carnal believers are babes in Christ, but not quite! Paul did not say that the carnal Corinthians WERE babes in Christ, but rather that he had to speak unto them AS UNTO BABES IN CHRIST! They were NOT new believers, but they were bahaving AS BABES IN CHRIST! Nor do I believe that the Corinthian believers were ignorant of what the Lord expected of them. Paul had spent more time instructing the Corinthian saints (18 months), than he had spent in almost any other place!) 2. I am not adding to God's word. I am simply trying to understand it. He knows my heart and He knows I am searching, not modifying. (Brother, I cannot judge motives of the heart. I simply ask, what scriptures have lead you to believe that the carnal believers at Corinth were actually babes in Christ and ignorant of what the Lord expected of them?) 3.In Matthew 6:24, Jesus does not say This part is only for twelve men. He says it is for ANY man that wants to follow Him. This message was for every person who reads the words, those you call the multitudes. (Terry, I agree with you that it WAS for any man who was a contemporary of Christ prior to His crucifixion. None of them had died to sin or died to the law, as we (believers have in Christ). As I mentioned before, one who took up his cross was one who had NOT YET BEEN CRUCIFIED, but rather was making his way toward death with the instrument of execution upon him. Can you explain exactly how a new covenant believer can take up his cross? What would it be? How would his crucifixion result by it?) 4. If Jesus Christ is your Savior, He is your Lord, your God. He is not a magic lamp that you put on a shelf and ignore until needed. If you do not take up your cross, deny yourself, and follow Him, there is a very real question as to whether or not you even have faith. (Dear brother, I never expressed nor do I believe that Christ is a magic lamp that one can put on a shelf and ignore until needed! But I DO believe, as Paul wrote in Romans 6:16, that believers do make choices, from day to day and even minute to minute, as to whom they will serve. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? It was these same believers at Corinth who were making choices to serve the wrong master as they involved themselves in strife, division and denominationalism (ch.1),glorying in gross sin, (ch.5), going to law with one another (ch.6), abusing the Lord's supper (ch.11), abusing spiritual gifts (ch.14) etc. I do not claim that such behaviour is NORMAL Christian living! Paul sternly rebuked them on every count! I am simply saying that when believers get their eyes off of Christ, they can and do make many wrong choices. One does not have to be a new believer to make horrendously wrong choices as a Christian!!) 5. Jesus has said,I will never leave or forsake you. You can take that to the bank. But Jesus has never said that you cannot forsake Him. He is able to keep us, but He will not force us to stay. (Brother, The Lord Jesus clearly declared two things (among many others) concerning His sheep: (1) I know them... John 10:27. Now if it is possible for one of His sheep to forsake Christ and in the end be lost, Christ could NEVER say to such a former sheep, I NEVER KNEW YOU! But these are the exact words that He will speak to the lost! See Matthew 7:23 (2) I give unto them eternal life and they shall never perish neither shall ANY MAN PLUCK THEM OUT OF MY HAND. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and NO MAN IS ABLE TO PLUCK THEM OUT OF MY FATHER'S HAND. John 10:28,29 Since any man includes you and me and no man excludes us both, neither one of us has the power even to pluck ourselves out of the hand of Christ, or out of the hand of the Father!) 6. The very fact that they did not RETAIN God would indicate to me that reprobates were once people who professed to believe. Like John says, They went out from us because they were not of us. They talked the talk., but they did not endure. What I guess I am saying is the easy salvation you are teaching is something I just cannot swallow. It sticks about half way down, and it tastes more like the wide road than the narrow path. I think I will continue to work out my own salvation with fear and
[TruthTalk] Tidbits
\o/ !HALALUYah! \o/ Greetings in the Matchless NameofYahShua!! Do you know that with a NINE digit social slavery number PLUS your NINE digit zip code that the system can identify WHO each person is and WHERE each person is? Oh, by the way, 9 + 9 = 18 and also = 6 6 6. Coincidence? Do you know that one place Social Security is regulated in the United States Code is Title 42, Section 666? Coincidence? Ahava b' YahShua (Love in The SAVIOUR) Baruch YHVH, Bro. Chris Barr a servant of YHVH
Re: [TruthTalk] Tidbits
In a message dated 9/16/2003 9:34:46 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Do you know that with a NINE digit social slavery number PLUS your NINE digit zip code that the system can identify WHO each person is and WHERE each person is? Oh, by the way, 9 + 9 = 18 and also = 6 6 6. Coincidence? Do you know that one place Social Security is regulated in the United States Code is Title 42, Section 666? Coincidence? True or not it gives me the creeps! Laura
[TruthTalk] None so blind ...
... as those who WILL not to see. \o/ !HALALUYah! \o/ Greetings in the Matchless NameofYahShua!! When my first child was born three decades back I took him to the hospital for a quick check (he was born at home). The hospital said, "While he's here we'll just treat his eyes." I politely but firmly said, "No, you won't." They said, "It is just a normal eye treatment for all newborns." I said, "I know all about silver nitrate including its elimination of natural immunity in a newborn. My wife is not a whore and does not have VD. You're not putting that poison in my baby's eyes." "IT'S THE LAW" the nurse LIED! I said, "No, it isn't." Her bluff called and lie exposed she fell back to "Well, it's hospital policy". I said, "I don't care about your hospital policies. In that case I'll just take my son home". At that point another came in and said, "I have seen a waiver form. I didn't understand why we had it since silver nitrate is routine but I know we have that waiver form right in the files." "Get it out and I'll sign it" I said ... and I did. Stayed with the baby non-stop the few hours he was there. Oh, yeah, they tried this, "We'll just keep him for 24 hour observation". "No, you won't" I corrected them. Brought him back to his mom and her nourishing breasts just a few hours later. I go w-a-a-a-y back with LYING "officials" and "authorities" whether the subject is silver nitrate, vaccination or SSN. Seeing clearly with EYES WIDE OPEN ... Ahava b' YahShua (Love in The SAVIOUR) Baruch YHVH, Bro. Chris Barr a servant of YHVH
Re: [TruthTalk] Tidbits
"Chris Barr" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Do you know that with a NINE digit social slavery number PLUS your NINE digit zip code that the system can identify WHO each person is and WHERE each person is? Oh, by the way, 9 + 9 = 18 and also = 6 6 6. Coincidence? Do you know that one place Social Security is regulated in the United States Code is Title 42, Section 666? Coincidence? ~ NO - SUPERSTITION!!! You are promoting GematriaChris, Are you aware that this is an occultic practice and that fear is a demonic spirit which is fed by these kinds of speculative exercises in futility and time wasting. Also are you aware that "God has not given us the spirit of fear but power, love and a sound mind?" Judy
