from:"ShieldsFamily"

I have avoided saying goodbye because I hate goodbyes.  In "real life" I
always tell someone, upon parting, that we don't have to say goodbye now
because we'll do that tomorrow.  Then I make sure to avoid that final
goodbye.  As much as I am sick of TT's squabbling and insulting and
straining at gnats, I will truly miss each and every one of you.  I have
been on TruthTalk for about as long as it has been going, I guess, with a
few drop outs to regroup.  I won't specify each one of you because I would
surely leave someone out, but you have all had an impact on my life and my
heart.  I feel like I know you each in a very personal way, and I've shared
my real self, for better or for worse, hoping that my transparency will be
used by God in spite of myself to bless you.  I apologize for every feeling
I have injured, for every too-harsh word, and for using my understanding of
truth at times like a sledgehammer.  But please know that my life will
always carry an imprint of yours, even those of you with whom I have most
disagreed.  I'm hoping that now and then you will send an email and tell me
hello.  Maybe we could all be better friends apart from this intense venue
on TT.  Maybe we could just talk about things not quite so important, and in
so doing, let Jesus shine through more clearly.  

Above all, I wish to thank you my dear, beloved David Miller, for so kindly
providing this meeting place for us.  If it weren't for your vision and
patience I would never have had the chance to meet Judy, and Lance, and J.D.
Smithson, and Dean, and Kevin, Gary, Perry, Blaine, Dave Hansen, Debbie,
Bill, Jonathan, and SO many others.  My life would have been poorer for the
loss. 

David, in spite of being routinely misunderstood and mistreated you have
remained faithful, steadfast, generous, longsuffering, and the most loving
person I have ever encountered.  I know you will not be out of my life
completely, but I'll probably never again have the advantage of sitting at
your feet and gleaning wisdom as it falls from your keyboard. From you I
have learned the most important lesson that no one else has ever taught me;
that I am free from sin and no longer a slave to it, and that love is simply
all that matters. How I thank you for that.  I hope to live up to the
example you have given me.  And, as I said, I hope to meet and greet each
one of you from TruthTalk on the other side.  I truly love you, and I miss
you already. Go with Jesus, and be very blessed.

Izzy


--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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[TruthTalk] America 100 years ago vs today.


> 
> Those were the days! 
> > 
> > 
> > THE YEAR 1905 
> > This will boggle your mind, I know it did mine! 
> > The year is 1905. 
> > One hundred years ago. 
> > What a difference a century makes! 
> > 
> > 
> > Here are some of the U.S. statistics for the Year 1905 : 
> > 
> > The average life expectancy in the U.S. was 47 years. 
> > 
> > Only 14 percent of the homes in the U.S. had a bathtub. 
> > 
> > Only 8 percent of the homes had a telephone. 
> > 
> > A three-minute call from Denver to New York City cost eleven dollars. 
> > 
> > There were only 8,000 cars in the U.S., and only 144 miles of paved 
> >roads. 
> > 
> > The maximum speed limit in most cities was 10 mph. 
> > 
> > Alabama, Mississippi, Iowa, and Tennessee were each more heavily 
> >populated than California. 
> > 
> > With a mere 1.4 million people, California was only the 21st most 
> >populous state in the Union. 
> > 
> > The tallest structure in the world was the Eiffel Tower! 
> > 
> > The average wage in the U.S. was 22 cents per hour. 
> > 
> > The average U.S. worker made between $200 and $400 per year .. 
> > 
> > A competent accountant could expect to earn $2000 per year, 
> > 
> > 
> > a dentist $2,500 per year, 
> > 
> > a veterinarian between $1,500 and $4,000 per year, and 
> > 
> > a mechanical engineer about $5,000 per year. 
> > 
> > More than 95 percent of all births in the U.S. took place at home .. 
> > 
> > Ninety percent of all U.S. doctors had no college education. 
> > 
> > Instead, they attended so-called medical schools, many of which were 
> >condemned in the press and by the government as "substandard." 
> > 
> > Sugar cost four cents a pound. 
> > 
> > Eggs were fourteen cents a dozen. 
> > 
> > Coffee was fifteen cents a pound. 
> > 
> > Most women only washed their hair once a month, and used borax or egg 
> >yolks for shampoo. 
> > 
> > Canada passed a law that prohibited poor people from entering into 
> >their country for any reason. 
> > 
> > Five leading causes of death in the U.S. were: 
> > 1. Pneumonia and influenza 
> > 
> > 2. Tuberculosis 
> > 3. Diarrhea 
> > 
> > 4. Heart disease 
> > 
> > 5. Stroke 
> > 
> > The American flag had 45 stars. 
> > 
> > Arizona, Oklahoma, New Mexico, Hawaii, and Alaska hadn't been admitted 
> >to the Union yet. 
> > 
> > The population of Las Vegas, Nevada, was only 30!!! 
> > 
> > Crossword puzzles, canned beer, and ice tea hadn't been invented yet. 
> > 
> > There was no Mother's Day or Father's Day. 
> > 
> > Two out of every 10 U.S. adults couldn't read or write. 
> > 
> > Only 6 percent of all Americans had graduated from high school. 
> > 
> > Marijuana, heroin, and morphine were all available over the counter at 
> >the local corner drugstores. 
> > Back then pharmacist said, "Heroin clears the complexion, gives 
> >buoyancy to the mind, regulates the stomach and bowels, and is, in fact,
a 
> >perfect guardian of health." (Shocking!) 
> > 
> > Eighteen percent of households in the U.S. had at least one full-time 
> >servant or domestic help. 
> > 
> > There were about 230 reported murders in the entire U.S. 
> > 
> > And I forwarded this from someone else without typing it myself, and 
> >sent it to you in a matter of seconds! 
> > Try to imagine what it may be like in another 100 years. 
> > 
> > It staggers the mind.



--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

RE: [TruthTalk] Izzy and Erin









After living in the city with NO garage
for five years I had a severe case of “garage envy”! Thanks. BTW,
my eyeballs were a bit red, having stayed up till 3:00 a.m. with Erin the night before.  They returned to Colorado yesterday, and
tonight we are having eight couples from our church “small group” over
for pizza and to watch “Tender Mercies” with Robert Duval.  (The
house is a wreck after playing with teenagers for a week—must get busy!) izzy

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Judy Taylor
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 8:33
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Izzy and
Erin



 



Loved all of your photos Iz,





Beautiful family, lovely pets,
gracious home.  How about all those garages; I know that comes in handy. 









From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 26, 2006
08:44





Subject: [TruthTalk] Izzy
and Erin





 



With my beautiful stepdaughter, Erin, this week. Izzy

I sent
these photos using Adobe(R) Photoshop(R) Elements 4.0. Find out more: http://www.adobe.com/photoshopelementswin

RE: [TruthTalk] Noah Webster









She is in God’s arms.  So glad she
has such a devoted son. iz

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 8:14
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Noah
Webster



 



I spent some time at my mother's bedside reading, praying
and talking. She has not opened her eyes.





 





thanks Iz,





 





Lance







- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 26, 2006
09:06





Subject: RE: [TruthTalk]
Noah Webster





 



Amen, Lance! Hoping all is well with you,
izzy

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 8:06
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Noah
Webster



 



Or, take your Bible and point to Him while saying 'HE IS THE
WORD'.







- Original Message ----- 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 26, 2006
08:33





Subject: RE: [TruthTalk]
Noah Webster





 



I love Crocodile Dundee because he says,
with a glint in his eye, “Now THIS is a knife!”  Life up your
Bible and say, “Now THIS is the Word!” It cuts to the quick and
separates the men from the boys! J iz

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Kevin Deegan
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 7:25
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Noah
Webster



 



I think it's a "right back
atcha" thing 





 





Is that so? 





Well, how do you like the fact that some American Company bought the
rights to all those Paul Hogan movies?

Judy Taylor
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:







I think it's a "right back
atcha" thing - for years I would go over there and hear much lamenting
about





what Americans had bought; do you know
an American Company now owns the all Australian





delicious spread called Vegemite?





 





On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 23:45:33 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:







I've just learned that Australia
is investing workers retirement funds in US Real Estate





 





They just bought the New York Thruway. Does that mean I need a
passport, now?

From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor
Thanks for this
Kevin











Proof of the pudding is always in the
eating.









I've just learned that Australia
is investing workers retirement funds in US Real Estate also









So Lance and his prophet don't have a
whole lot of support from "down under" either









 









On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 09:20:31 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:











Lance says Canada will not suffer the
same fate at the USA. 









 









Ah









 Ah









    AH CHOO!









 









excuse me









 









348,000 New York jobs are
supported by Canada-U.S. trade 









Total Canada–U.S. merchandise trade: $411 billion 









Canada–U.S. trade supported 5.2 million U.S.
jobs 









More people traveled between Canada and NY in 2004 than
any other U.S.
state 









14,500,000 vehicles crossed the Canada-U.S. border at the four Niagara
crossings last year, accounting for 34% of all traffic that crossed into Ontario










 









ROTFL









With this many US Jobs gone, could CanaDUH rebound? 









 









http://www.2ontario.com/welcome/coca_401.asp









Seeing that a FULL 84% of CanaDUHs exports are US 









Calculator please









That leaves 16%, can CanaDUH's economy survive on 16% of its present
exports?









Remember that the Total export/imports of canada
represents a FULL 2/3rds of their GDP!









SIZE does matter!









 









Thanks for the add'l example of mindless parroting.









Don't you just HATE Ignorance?









I guess it is better than letting it go to waste.










Lance Muir
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:











The 'prophet' (take note, David) said otherwise in November.
Canada
will not suffer the same fate at the USA.
Size does matter but, it's not the only thing that matters.











- Original Message - 









From: Judy Taylor










To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org










Sent: March 25, 2006
08:03









Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Noah Webster









 









Don't worry Lance, if the USA implodes - Canada and Europe will go with it - at present when the









US sneezes the rest of the world catch a
cold.  Such envy and jealousy from the North ... Goodness gracious!









 









 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lance Muir
Most on TT will live to see the implosion of the USA.
At what point will you declare bankruptcy. You don't have the option of moving
out of your old house and

RE: [TruthTalk] Invitation.









Thanks. Visit soon!

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 8:11
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Invitation.



 



My goodness but it's striking. Many happy years.







- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 26, 2006
08:52





Subject: [TruthTalk]
Invitation.





 



The new house. It has a dark green roof. Plenty of bedrooms. Every one
of you on TT (yes, even YOU, Gary!), come and visit us anytime, PLEASE!!! Izzy

I sent these
photos using Adobe(R) Photoshop(R) Elements 4.0. Find out more: http://www.adobe.com/photoshopelementswin

RE: [TruthTalk] Izzy and Erin









Whodathunkit???

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 8:09
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Izzy and
Erin



 



It's good to see you, Iz. Good eyes! There's a real person
in there.







- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 26, 2006
08:44





Subject: [TruthTalk] Izzy
and Erin





 



With my beautiful stepdaughter, Erin, this week. Izzy

I sent
these photos using Adobe(R) Photoshop(R) Elements 4.0. Find out more: http://www.adobe.com/photoshopelementswin

RE: [TruthTalk] Noah Webster









Amen, Lance! Hoping all is well with you,
izzy

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 8:06
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Noah
Webster



 



Or, take your Bible and point to Him while saying 'HE IS THE
WORD'.







- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 26, 2006
08:33





Subject: RE: [TruthTalk]
Noah Webster





 



I love Crocodile Dundee because he says,
with a glint in his eye, “Now THIS is a knife!”  Life up your
Bible and say, “Now THIS is the Word!” It cuts to the quick and
separates the men from the boys! J iz

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Kevin Deegan
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 7:25
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Noah Webster



 



I think it's a "right back
atcha" thing 





 





Is that so? 





Well, how do you like the fact that some American Company bought the
rights to all those Paul Hogan movies?

Judy Taylor
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:







I think it's a "right back
atcha" thing - for years I would go over there and hear much lamenting
about





what Americans had bought; do you know
an American Company now owns the all Australian





delicious spread called Vegemite?





 





On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 23:45:33 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:







I've just learned that Australia
is investing workers retirement funds in US Real Estate





 





They just bought the New York Thruway. Does that mean I need a
passport, now?

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Judy Taylor
Thanks for this
Kevin











Proof of the pudding is always in the
eating.









I've just learned that Australia
is investing workers retirement funds in US Real Estate also









So Lance and his prophet don't have a
whole lot of support from "down under" either









 









On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 09:20:31 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:











Lance says Canada will not suffer the
same fate at the USA. 









 









Ah









 Ah









    AH CHOO!









 









excuse me









 









348,000 New York jobs are
supported by Canada-U.S. trade 









Total Canada–U.S. merchandise trade: $411 billion 









Canada–U.S. trade supported 5.2 million U.S.
jobs 









More people traveled between Canada and NY in 2004 than
any other U.S.
state 









14,500,000 vehicles crossed the Canada-U.S. border at the four Niagara
crossings last year, accounting for 34% of all traffic that crossed into Ontario










 









ROTFL









With this many US Jobs gone, could CanaDUH rebound? 









 









http://www.2ontario.com/welcome/coca_401.asp









Seeing that a FULL 84% of CanaDUHs exports are US 









Calculator please









That leaves 16%, can CanaDUH's economy survive on 16% of its present
exports?









Remember that the Total export/imports of canada
represents a FULL 2/3rds of their GDP!









SIZE does matter!









 









Thanks for the add'l example of mindless parroting.









Don't you just HATE Ignorance?









I guess it is better than letting it go to waste.










Lance Muir
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:











The 'prophet' (take note, David) said otherwise in November.
Canada
will not suffer the same fate at the USA.
Size does matter but, it's not the only thing that matters.











- Original Message - 









From: Judy Taylor










To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org










Sent: March 25, 2006
08:03









Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Noah Webster









 









Don't worry Lance, if the USA implodes - Canada and Europe will go with it - at present when the









US sneezes the rest of the world catch a
cold.  Such envy and jealousy from the North ... Goodness gracious!









 









 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lance Muir
Most on TT will live to see the implosion of the USA.
At what point will you declare bankruptcy. You don't have the option of moving
out of your old house and into a new one.

















From: ShieldsFamily


















 









 









http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noah_Webster









 









As a teacher, he
had come to dislike American elementary schools. They could be overcrowded,
with up to seventy children of all ages crammed into one-room schoolhouses, poorly staffed with
untrained teachers, and poorly equipped with no desks and unsatisfactory
textbooks which came from England. Webster thought that Americans should learn from
American books, so he began writing a three volume compendium, A Grammatical Institute of the English La

RE: [TruthTalk] Invitation.









BTW, we didn’t even notice until the
house was completed—did you see the cross on the front window? We will
outline it with little white lights this Christmas. izzy

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ShieldsFamily
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 7:52
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: [TruthTalk] Invitation.



 

The new house. It has a dark green roof. Plenty of bedrooms. Every one
of you on TT (yes, even YOU, Gary!), come and visit us anytime, PLEASE!!! Izzy

I sent
these photos using Adobe(R) Photoshop(R) Elements 4.0. Find out more: http://www.adobe.com/photoshopelementswin

RE: [TruthTalk] Noah Webster









He probably sent two bats!

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 7:33
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Noah
Webster



 



Your buddy JD, the one who sent you the
baseball bat; apparently he was lucid





enough to accomplish that; the rest of
the time he is obsessed by dualism.





 





On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 13:28:49 + [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:







Who is Gary Olson?





 






From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


LOL!  So true as to be
hilarious.  iz

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor





What was dualistic about that comment
Gary Olson? It is world affairs that's all...





You are truly weird, strange, weird ... 
Why do you truncate what ppl
write and insert your 





own comments - ultimately making it
appear the person said something they did not.





Oh I understand - you do the same with
God's Words.  O' the shame of it.





 





On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 13:33:31 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:







more
evidence of jt's implicit dualism





 





On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 12:49:07 -0500 Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:







[while eschatological] Proof of the pudding is always in the eating...[is'nt] Australia..investing
workers retirement funds in [biblically questionable] Real Estate also[?]

RE: [TruthTalk] Noah Webster









I love Crocodile Dundee because he says,
with a glint in his eye, “Now THIS is a knife!”  Life up your Bible
and say, “Now THIS is the Word!” It cuts to the quick and separates
the men from the boys! J iz

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 7:25
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Noah
Webster



 



I think it's a "right back
atcha" thing 





 





Is that so? 





Well, how do you like the fact that some American Company bought the
rights to all those Paul Hogan movies?

Judy Taylor
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:







I think it's a "right back
atcha" thing - for years I would go over there and hear much lamenting
about





what Americans had bought; do you know
an American Company now owns the all Australian





delicious spread called Vegemite?





 





On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 23:45:33 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:







I've just learned that Australia
is investing workers retirement funds in US Real Estate





 





They just bought the New York Thruway. Does that mean I need a
passport, now?

From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor
Thanks for this
Kevin











Proof of the pudding is always in the
eating.









I've just learned that Australia
is investing workers retirement funds in US Real Estate also









So Lance and his prophet don't have a
whole lot of support from "down under" either









 









On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 09:20:31 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:











Lance says Canada will not suffer the
same fate at the USA. 









 









Ah









 Ah









    AH CHOO!









 









excuse me









 









348,000 New York jobs are
supported by Canada-U.S. trade 









Total Canada–U.S. merchandise trade: $411 billion 









Canada–U.S. trade supported 5.2 million U.S.
jobs 









More people traveled between Canada and NY in 2004 than
any other U.S.
state 









14,500,000 vehicles crossed the Canada-U.S. border at the four Niagara
crossings last year, accounting for 34% of all traffic that crossed into Ontario










 









ROTFL









With this many US Jobs gone, could CanaDUH rebound? 









 









http://www.2ontario.com/welcome/coca_401.asp









Seeing that a FULL 84% of CanaDUHs exports are US 









Calculator please









That leaves 16%, can CanaDUH's economy survive on 16% of its present
exports?









Remember that the Total export/imports of canada
represents a FULL 2/3rds of their GDP!









SIZE does matter!









 









Thanks for the add'l example of mindless parroting.









Don't you just HATE Ignorance?









I guess it is better than letting it go to waste.










Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:











The 'prophet' (take note, David) said otherwise in November.
Canada
will not suffer the same fate at the USA.
Size does matter but, it's not the only thing that matters.











- Original Message - 









From: Judy Taylor










To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org










Sent: March 25, 2006
08:03









Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Noah Webster









 









Don't worry Lance, if the USA implodes - Canada and Europe will go with it - at present when the









US sneezes the rest of the world catch a
cold.  Such envy and jealousy from the North ... Goodness gracious!









 









 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lance Muir
Most on TT will live to see the implosion of the USA.
At what point will you declare bankruptcy. You don't have the option of moving
out of your old house and into a new one.

















From: ShieldsFamily


















 









 









http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noah_Webster









 









As a teacher, he
had come to dislike American elementary schools. They could be overcrowded,
with up to seventy children of all ages crammed into one-room schoolhouses, poorly staffed with
untrained teachers, and poorly equipped with no desks and unsatisfactory
textbooks which came from England. Webster thought that Americans should learn from
American books, so he began writing a three volume compendium, A Grammatical Institute of the English Language.
The work consisted of a speller (published in 1783), a grammar
(published in 1784),
and a reader (published in 1785). His goal was to provide a uniquely American,
Christ-centered approach to training children.









The speller was originally entitled The First Part of the Grammatical Institute of the
English Language. The title was changed in 1786 to The American Spelling Book, and again in 1829 to The Elementary Spelling Book. Most people
called it the "Blue-Backed Speller" because

RE: [TruthTalk] Noah Webster









Who is Linda?

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 7:29
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Noah
Webster



 



Who is Gary Olson?





 





-- Original message -- 
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


LOL!  So true as to be
hilarious.  iz

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Judy Taylor
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
3:04 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Noah
Webster



 



What was dualistic about that comment
Gary Olson? It is world affairs that's all...





You are truly weird, strange, weird ... 
Why do you truncate what ppl
write and insert your 





own comments - ultimately making it
appear the person said something they did not.





Oh I understand - you do the same with
God's Words.  O' the shame of it.





 





On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 13:33:31 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:







more
evidence of jt's implicit dualism





 





On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 12:49:07 -0500 Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:







[while eschatological] Proof of the pudding is always in the eating...[is'nt] Australia..investing
workers retirement funds in [biblically questionable] Real Estate also[?]

RE: [TruthTalk] Truth and Freedom (some food for thought)









Keep on keeping on, Jude! iz

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 5:33
AM
To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: [TruthTalk] Truth and
Freedom (some food for thought)



 

 

Truth and freedom go hand in hand, but truth will produce
freedom only as it is walked in. This ought to be self-evident. We can know
something is true, but if we fail to walk in it, what good is it? Its value to
us is worthless unless it is walked in.

Freedom and truth come to those who press on. Freedom,
the kind of freedom that God is involved in bringing us into, comes
progressively, not all at once. These are lessons from the Days of Unleavened
Bread. It took the Israelites seven days to get to and across the Red Sea. It took them another forty years to get into
their own land, into their inheritance, the Promised Land.

Their freedom was progressive. There was a time when it
began, but if they had never continued on the way, they would never have had their
own land, never have had their inheritance, never have been free. 

This is a large part of the object lesson: We have to
continue. If we continue, then we will truly be a disciple. We will understand
the truth, and the truth will make us free. The truth of God shows us the
real values of life because it shows us what we are to give our life to.

RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism









Pretty close! J

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
10:15 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism



 



Izzy  





PS She was driving a nicer car than I have;
but then so does everyone. “-) 





 





 





 





 





 





ShieldsFamily <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:







Oh, how the Libs LOVE demeaning Wal-Mart!
How very predictable you would bring it up.  And what is your PROBLEM with
Wal-Mart? Oh, they don’t pay enough or give enough benefits to those POOR
people who work there; so SAD! My book club (SLU Women’s Club) read some
lib’s expose on Wal-Mart and they were all up in arms about how they
refuse to shop there.  A few months later which merchant allowed us to
solicit funds for our SLU Hospital Auxiliary at their doors? You guessed it,
Wal-Mart!  Did they boycott that; no way, Baby!  So, while I was
there soliciting donations I noticed this young female Wal-Mart employee on her
cellphone trying to get someone to come and pick her up because she locked her
keys in her car; obviously with no luck.  So when it was time for me to
leave I said Come on, I’ll give you a ride home.  While we were
driving to her apartment we were talking, and she told me that she (around age
24) had full custody of four children (her sisters, brothers, nephews in some
combination).  She is raising them as a single woman, while attending
classes at the U of Mo in STL on a psychology degree, while volunteering part
time at a local hospital and working part time cleaning houses and part time at
Wal-Mart.  I asked What do you think about how Wal-Mart treats its
employees?  She said Oh it’s so wonderful working there.  They
treat us all SO well.  And if it weren’t for my benefits there I
could never dream of taking care of my kids!  So stick that in your pipe
and puff on it.  Izzy  PS She was driving a nicer car than I have;
but then so does everyone. “-) 





 













From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
11:07 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism







 







myth [the writer's a blamer with
an evident feminist' bias, but Am. conservative Muslim
theory ain't really their fault: 









'either get our new WalMarts opened on
time in Baghdad or face
us blowin' you to (the other) hell (we're financing')]









 









||













 







We wouldn’t be HAVING a problem with
Muslims if we hadn’t thrown God out of the government and schools a long
time ago! (duh) 





 





||









 







Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make
PC-to-Phone Calls to the US
(and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism









Yeah; well this church member is going to
be very vocal about the discrimination against Christianity, Bible and Truth in
the government schools!!! iz

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
11:06 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism



 

0

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote: 



Here's an idea  -- maybe the church could actually do its job
!! You know, instead of paying the local school
district to do it.  





 





jd





 





-- Original message -- 
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>




Solution: teach false theories.  





 













From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
6:33 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism







 







What's scary is that you think the solution is to have an antagonistic
educator "teach" what he does not believe   -- you
thinking, of course, that he will do so without commentary that thoroughly
negates the purpose of this compromise.  In the real world, 
Linda,  you simply cannot construct a model in which this will work to our
(the Christian church  -- whose address do we use , again ??)
favor.   In fact, to get all the warring factions to agree, the
stateent on creationism would be so watered down as to be really
meaningless.   









-- Original message -- 
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 





Scary to the max. 





 













From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
6:14 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism







 







Of course.  But that is not really the issue. 









 









------ Original message -- 
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>






So IYO it is better to have
“secular” folk teaching untruth than truth.  I
see….  izzy





 













From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
5:46 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism







 







It's not what is taught (for me and in this case) so much as it is WHO
TEACHES THEM.    You want the secular world to be
responsible   --   I don't.  









 









jd









 









-- Original message -- 
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


> So, here we are, back to the fact that IF you believed something to be
true 
> you would NOT want children to be taught about it. Can you see why some of

> us aren't following your logic? iz 
> 
> -Original Message- 
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir 
> Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 5:28 AM 
> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> 
> IZ:No, I would not. 
> 
> 
> -  Original Message - 
> From: "ShieldsFamily" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED] OM>> To: 
> Sent: March 25, 2006 06:14 
> ; Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> 
> 
> & gt; Dodging the question, as usual. iz 
> > 
> > -Original Message- 
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir 
> > Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 4:54 PM 
> > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

> > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> > 
> > It ain't true. It's a hyperbolic hypothetical, Iz. 
> > 
> > . 
> > - Original Message - 
> > From: "ShieldsFamily" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > To: 
> > Sent: March 24, 2006 17:16 
> > Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> > 
> > 
> >> That wasn't the question; I asked whether IF you believe it were
true, 
> >> you 
> >> would want it taught in schools. You said NO. Pathetic, eh? iz 
> >> 
> >> -Original Message- 
> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance
Muir 
> >> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:49 PM 
> >> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

> >> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> >> 
> >> David you are like so right, man! familiaritycontempt...were
those 
> >> the 
> >> words? Probably got it comin'. 
> >> 
> >> Actua lly Lady Iz, I prefer

RE: [TruthTalk] Noah Webster









Oh, contraire! I think Lance’s
thinking gets a LOT of support from “down under”. iz

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
11:49 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Noah
Webster



 



Thanks for this Kevin





Proof of the pudding is always in the
eating.





I've just learned that Australia is
investing workers retirement funds in US Real Estate also





So Lance and his prophet don't have a
whole lot of support from "down under" either





 





On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 09:20:31 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:







Lance says Canada
will not suffer the same fate at the USA. 





 





Ah





 Ah





    AH CHOO!





 





excuse me





 





348,000 New York
jobs are supported by Canada-U.S. trade 





Total Canada–U.S. merchandise trade: $411 billion 





Canada–U.S. trade supported 5.2 million U.S. jobs 





More people traveled between Canada
and NY in 2004 than any other U.S.
state 





14,500,000 vehicles crossed the Canada-U.S. border at the four Niagara
crossings last year, accounting for 34% of all traffic that crossed into Ontario 





 





ROTFL





With this many US Jobs gone, could CanaDUH rebound? 





 





http://www.2ontario.com/welcome/coca_401.asp





Seeing that a FULL 84% of CanaDUHs exports are US 





Calculator please





That leaves 16%, can CanaDUH's economy survive on 16% of its present
exports?





Remember that the Total export/imports of canada represents a FULL 2/3rds of
their GDP!





SIZE does matter!





 





Thanks for the add'l example of mindless parroting.





Don't you just HATE Ignorance?





I guess it is better than letting it go to waste.






Lance Muir
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:







The 'prophet' (take note, David) said otherwise in November.
Canada will not suffer the
same fate at the USA.
Size does matter but, it's not the only thing that matters.







- Original Message - 





From: Judy Taylor






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 25, 2006
08:03





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Noah Webster





 





Don't worry Lance, if the USA implodes - Canada
and Europe will go with it - at present when
the





US sneezes the rest of the world catch a
cold.  Such envy and jealousy from the North ... Goodness gracious!





 





 





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lance Muir
Most on TT will live to see the implosion of the USA. At what point
will you declare bankruptcy. You don't have the option of moving out of your
old house and into a new one.













From: ShieldsFamily














 





 





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noah_Webster





 





As a teacher, he
had come to dislike American elementary schools. They could be overcrowded,
with up to seventy children of all ages crammed into one-room schoolhouses, poorly staffed with
untrained teachers, and poorly equipped with no desks and unsatisfactory
textbooks which came from England. Webster thought that Americans should learn from
American books, so he began writing a three volume compendium, A Grammatical Institute of the English Language.
The work consisted of a speller (published in 1783), a grammar
(published in 1784),
and a reader (published in 1785). His goal was to provide a uniquely American,
Christ-centered approach to training children.





The speller was originally entitled The First Part of the Grammatical Institute of the
English Language. The title was changed in 1786 to The American Spelling Book, and again in 1829 to The Elementary Spelling Book. Most people
called it the "Blue-Backed Speller" because of its blue cover, and
for the next one hundred years, Webster's book taught children how to read,
spell, and pronounce words. It was the most popular American book of its time;
by 1861, it was
selling a million copies per year, and its royalty of less than one cent per
copy was enough to sustain Webster in his other endeavors. Even Ben
Franklin used Webster's book to teach his granddaughter how to read.





 





Noah was
generally known to be Christian. It is reported that Noah Webster’s 1828
American Dictionary contains the greatest number of Biblical definitions
given in any reference volume. Webster considered "education useless
without the Bible."




 "In my
 view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the first
 things in which all children, under a free government ought to be
 instructed...No truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian
 religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights
 and privileges of a free people.” (Preface to the 1828 edition of
 Webster's American Dictionary of the
 English Language ) 




Besides h

RE: [TruthTalk] Noah Webster









LOL!  So true as to be
hilarious.  iz

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
3:04 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Noah
Webster



 



What was dualistic about that comment
Gary Olson? It is world affairs that's all...





You are truly weird, strange, weird ... 
Why do you truncate what ppl
write and insert your 





own comments - ultimately making it
appear the person said something they did not.





Oh I understand - you do the same with
God's Words.  O' the shame of it.





 





On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 13:33:31 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:







more
evidence of jt's implicit dualism





 





On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 12:49:07 -0500 Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:







[while eschatological] Proof of the pudding is always in the eating...[is'nt] Australia..investing workers
retirement funds in [biblically questionable] Real Estate also[?]

RE: [TruthTalk] four of the five smithsons









Is that unusual, jd? iz

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
6:29 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] four of
the five smithsons



 



sent earlier  -- [TruthTalk] re: pictures   





They took my picture right after I found out that I had received yet
another post from Judy Taylor.  Note the blank look on my roughedly
handsome face.  





 





jd





 





-- Original message -- 
From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



Nice looking kids, they must take after
their Mom :)





Where are you JD?





 





On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 00:03:13 + [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism









Those who really know it are thankful
enough to SERVE Him joyfully. iz

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
11:37 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism



 



..knew God's grace









We wouldn’t be HAVING a problem with
Muslims if we..

RE: [TruthTalk] re: pictures









Wow.  I sure hope that was jd and not “Julie”. 
iz

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
5:40 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: [TruthTalk] re: pictures



 



 





 





-- Original message -- 
From: Julie Helm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

> Hi, you're sitting next to me right now! 
> 
> Have fun! 
> 
> Love, Julie 
> 
> __ 
> Do You Yahoo!? 
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

RE: [TruthTalk] Noah Webster









Boyish baloney babble blubber. 

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
3:56 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Noah
Webster



 





you're truly up
to speed with worldliness--eh?





 





interestingly, e.g., consistent
with essential dualism, typical Word-babble 





like the
writer's, below/elsewhere, consistently banishes JC's concerns from the 





realm of (her)
natural loyalty--his politics is conveniently off limits (from
her's) 





while the
biblical Spirit is forbidden to touch the working (of her)
state-based 





mind





 





--





 







ftr,
here's the quote in question, juxtapose it with my
question, below:





 





[jt:]





"I've just learned that Australia is
investing workers retirement funds in US Real Estate also





So Lance and his prophet don't have a
whole lot of support from "down under" either"







 





 







On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 16:04:08 -0500 Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:







It is world affairs that's all...





.





 





On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 13:33:31 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:







more
evidence of jt's implicit dualism





 





On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 12:49:07 -0500 Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:







[while eschatological] Proof of the pudding is always in the eating...[is'nt] Australia..investing workers
retirement funds in [biblically questionable] Real Estate also[?]

RE: [TruthTalk] [TruthTalkActually - my Kathy and grandbaby Delaney

Lovely family, jd! (Do they take after their mother?) :-) iz

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 6:15 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] [TruthTalkActually - my Kathy and grandbaby Delaney


 -- Original message --
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> -- Original message -- 
> From: Julie Helm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> 
> > hi dad 
> > 
> > 
> > __ 
> > Do You Yahoo!? 
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 




--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism









Oh, how the Libs LOVE demeaning Wal-Mart!
How very predictable you would bring it up.  And what is your PROBLEM with
Wal-Mart? Oh, they don’t pay enough or give enough benefits to those POOR
people who work there; so SAD! My book club (SLU Women’s Club) read some
lib’s expose on Wal-Mart and they were all up in arms about how they
refuse to shop there.  A few months later which merchant allowed us to solicit
funds for our SLU Hospital Auxiliary at their doors? You guessed it, Wal-Mart! 
Did they boycott that; no way, Baby!  So, while I was there soliciting
donations I noticed this young female Wal-Mart employee on her cellphone trying
to get someone to come and pick her up because she locked her keys in her car;
obviously with no luck.  So when it was time for me to leave I said Come on, I’ll
give you a ride home.  While we were driving to her apartment we were talking,
and she told me that she (around age 24) had full custody of four children (her
sisters, brothers, nephews in some combination).  She is raising them as a
single woman, while attending classes at the U of Mo in STL on a psychology
degree, while volunteering part time at a local hospital and working part time
cleaning houses and part time at Wal-Mart.  I asked What do you think about how
Wal-Mart treats its employees?  She said Oh it’s so wonderful working
there.  They treat us all SO well.  And if it weren’t for my benefits
there I could never dream of taking care of my kids!  So stick that in your
pipe and puff on it.  Izzy  PS She was driving a nicer car than I have; but
then so does everyone. “-) 

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
11:07 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism



 



myth [the writer's a blamer with
an evident feminist' bias, but Am. conservative Muslim
theory ain't really their fault: 





'either get our new WalMarts opened on
time in Baghdad
or face us blowin' you to (the other) hell (we're
financing')]





 





||









 



We wouldn’t be HAVING a problem with
Muslims if we hadn’t thrown God out of the government and schools a long
time ago! (duh) 

 

||

RE: [TruthTalk]

Obviously the Holy Spirit is sneaking in there somehow. iz

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 9:07 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] 

Is this what we are fighting for?

I talked to a returning GI, who is a Christian.
He told me he was praying for fellowship with another Christian. 
Orders or whatever keep the Christians from displaying such offensive
materials as crosses. In addition it is against policy to talk to
locals about such subjects as Christianity.
He said the Chaplains office only has Korans, could this be true?

http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/535
Man has to Sue to get a Bible! While Koran is easily obtained.
US Gov't Fights in court to KEEP BIBLE OUT!

US Gov't SOP for "handling the Koran in manner signaling respect and
reverence"
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,158704,00.html

LOL - US military attempts to preserve the tender sensibilities of
terrorists?
Is this a separation of Church State issue?
Why NO Respect/Reverence fo our Bible?
http://www.thedailystar.net/magazine/2005/12/04/international.htm
http://www.boston.com/news/world/articles/2003/11/07/limits_put_on_new_musli
m_chaplain/

--- ShieldsFamily <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> >From WorldNetDaily.com:
> 
> Rome, 22 March (AKI) - Abdul Rahman, the man condemned to death for
> having
> abandoned Islam, is just one of many Afghanis who decide to convert
> to
> Christianity, but most are forced to do so secretly, argues Arab
> Christian
> author Camille Eid. In an interview with Adnkronos International
> (AKI) Eid,
> author of "The Christians who come from Islam", said during a recent
> trip to
> Afghanistan he met many similar cases. "They are Christians who have
> sprung
> out of nowhere and it's unclear how they have decided by themselves
> to
> convert" he added. The US, Italy, Germany and Canada have all
> expressed
> concern over the fate of Rahman who converted to Christianity 16
> years ago. 
> 
> "I also spoke to a priest who had passed through Kabul and he said he
> was
> amazed that women sitting on the ground at the local market saw he
> was a
> foreigner and a Christian, by the cross he was wearing, and attracted
> his
> attention to them by making a sign of the cross with their fingers.
> He was
> convinced that they were trying to send him a coded message" said
> Eid, a
> Lebanese Maronite who lives in Italy.
> 
> According to the author, Abdul Rahman is not the first Afghan citizen
> to
> have been sentenced to death for apostasy since the fall of the
> Taliban
> regime. 
> 
> "The Islamic Taliban militias who still control entire areas of the
> country
> issued a statement in June 2004 in which they referred to a death
> sentence
> handed down to an Afghan converted to Christianity, Moulawi Asad
> Allah."
> 
>  
> 
> 

__
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"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know
how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

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If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
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RE: [TruthTalk] Divine & Contingent Order

That's what it spells when one's nose hits the keyboard. :-)

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 8:31 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Divine & Contingent Order

This is one of JD's best techniques he learned it when he was Pres of
the D-bate Society.

I am afraid he does not get it so let's just move on!

Or maybe he fell asleep at the keyboard?
Is there a doctor in the house to treat his narcolepsy?

--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> z
> 
> -- Original message -- 
> From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> 
> Why?  What do they do for you?
> It's all about him, his thoughts, his opinions, the movies he sees,
> etc. etc.
> 
> On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 01:09:26 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> :-)   I shall miss these pithy responses.   jd
> 
> From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> 
> After reading you, I'm inclined toward a YES!
> From: Kevin Deegan 
> 
> Was it a BIG Bang?
> 
> Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> When one seeks to apply the latter onto the former one is simply
> stymied. In failing to apprehend this one bangs one's head against
> the proverbial wall.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using
> Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.

__
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Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know
how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
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RE: [TruthTalk] I just spoke with my mother









Your mother I assume.  You’ve got it. 
Hugs, Izzy

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
7:37 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: [TruthTalk] I just spoke
with my mother 



 



She's in a home. She's 88. They were checking her vital
signs as we spoke and, are about to transport her to a hospital in Windsor, Ontario.
I await a call from my brother. Your prayers for Ruth May would be
appreciated,





 





thanks,





 





Lance

RE: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the march









Why is it that you only call women “rebellious”;
and only when they disagree with you?
Your masochistic roots are exposed. iz

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
7:27 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian
Thought Police on the march



 



Shucks  !! 





 





 





And,   did you note that us "liberals" do not agree
on everything?  One is not the puppet of the other.   For my
money, you are the poster girl for "carnal Christian" if same
includes "rebellions" as an indicator.  





 





jd





-- Original message -- 
From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



Don't hold your breath waiting JD:





You have never been open to anything I
would have to say - when TT goes down I will





know it is time to call it a day.





 





On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 13:13:50 + [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:







Like I said, Judy,  your spirit is as carnal as any.   





When you get that "fixed,"  talk to me.  You''ll
still have my e-mail.  jd





 






From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 







And why is it present?  Not enough
power emanating from the cross to get rid of it yet?





The scripture Izzy posted this morning
about the Kingdom suffering violence and the violent taking





it by force is all about sin JD. 
If you don't hate it as much as God does in your life and the lives of





others you will never press in; the word
is #971 Blazo - means to overpower, compel, press in with





energy.





 





On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 12:39:15 + [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:







  There is a difference between defending sin and admitting to its
presence.   





 





From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



The old house was judged at the cross;
if you want to hang on to it JD that's your demise





Probably why you defend carnality so
adamantly also.  Only the new men make it because





only they are fit for the Kingdom.





 





On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 12:18:28 + [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:







Selling the old house and building the new house is precisely what does
not happen in new birth.    What you moved to avoid is the real
analogy.  I am surprised that you think differently.  





 





jd





 





From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



'Renovation of the Heart' by Dallas Willard. 







- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 25, 2006
06:20





Subject: RE: [TruthTalk]
Canadian Thought Police on the march





 



Isn’t that the truth? We sold our
100 year old house, for one thing, because we realized that the renovations
would never be finished.  As soon as you started to repair one thing it
led to another and another.  The whole house needed to be replaced one
thing after another! So we built new.  What an analogy of the difference
between “religion” and being born again of the Holy Spirit. izzy

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Judy Taylor
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 6:05
PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian
Thought Police on the march



 



There is no such thing as a
"renovated" heart Lance; more misunderstanding which makes me wonder





about you and your SS conversion. 
It is a new heart; the old has passed away - all things become new.





 





On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 08:06:30 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:







My critique of this would be similar to your own. Granted
that a civil society is an improvement on an uncivil one. Granted that a moral
society is an improvement on an immoral one. Granted that some attempt to
govern their lives by the so-called 'golden rule' or, by the ten commandments.
These also offer up a social improvement on that which opposes the foregoing.





 





Please, please tell me Kevin, Judy, David and Iz that the
genuine 'renovation of the heart' would/should include all of the above? I do
believe that some of y'all have things ass backwards with that upon which you
focus (signage wise and all).







- Original Message - 





From: Kevin
Deegan 





To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 24, 2006
07:54





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Canadian Thought Police on the march





 





 





The Canadian Guanatamo 





Better be careful with your social context on the INET Lance!





Are you hating an identifiable group?





And your comments on "FUNDIES" have hurt me, I understand it
as an attack on me & multiple groups of my friends. ; )





Do you have the telE for the Tribunal? 





 





Justice in Canaduh





http://www.pressaction.com/news/weblog/full_ar

RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism









Great idea, jd!!! And how about everyone
who wants their child to grow up to be a son of hell should send their children
to the local government schools? iz

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
7:08 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism



 



Here's an idea  -- maybe the church could actually do its job
!! You know, instead of paying the local school
district to do it.  





 





jd





 





-- Original message -- 
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


Solution: teach false theories.  

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
6:33 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism



 



What's scary is that you think the solution is to have an antagonistic
educator "teach" what he does not believe   -- you
thinking, of course, that he will do so without commentary that thoroughly
negates the purpose of this compromise.  In the real world, 
Linda,  you simply cannot construct a model in which this will work to our
(the Christian church  -- whose address do we use , again ??)
favor.   In fact, to get all the warring factions to agree, the
stateent on creationism would be so watered down as to be really
meaningless.   





-- Original message -- 
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

Scary to the max. 

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
6:14 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism



 



Of course.  But that is not really the issue. 





 





------ Original message -- 
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


So IYO it is better to have
“secular” folk teaching untruth than truth.  I
see….  izzy

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
5:46 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism



 



It's not what is taught (for me and in this case) so much as it is WHO
TEACHES THEM.    You want the secular world to be
responsible   --   I don't.  





 





jd





 





-- Original message -- 
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


> So, here we are, back to the fact that IF you believed something to be
true 
> you would NOT want children to be taught about it. Can you see why some of

> us aren't following your logic? iz 
> 
> -Original Message- 
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir 
> Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 5:28 AM 
> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> 
> IZ:No, I would not. 
> 
> 
> -  Original Message - 
> From: "ShieldsFamily" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED] OM>> To: 
> Sent: March 25, 2006 06:14 
> ; Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> 
> 
> & gt; Dodging the question, as usual. iz 
> > 
> > -Original Message- 
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir 
> > Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 4:54 PM 
> > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

> > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> > 
> > It ain't true. It's a hyperbolic hypothetical, Iz. 
> > 
> > . 
> > - Original Message - 
> > From: "ShieldsFamily" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > To: 
> > Sent: March 24, 2006 17:16 
> > Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> > 
> > 
> >> That wasn't the question; I asked whether IF you believe it were
true, 
> >> you 
> >> would want it taught in schools. You said NO. Pathetic, eh? iz 
> >> 
> >> -Original Message- 
> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance
Muir 
> >> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:49 PM 
> >> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

> >> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> >> 
> >> David you are like so right, man! familiaritycontempt...were
those 
> >> the 
> >> words? Probably got it comin'. 
> >> 
> >> Actua lly Lady Iz, I prefer that untruth NOT be taught in schools
(i.e. 
> >> creationism)

RE: [TruthTalk] Noah Webster









Sorry, but that’s the view from my “perspectivism”. 
I do believe you are a reincarnation of Nietzsche.  iz

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
7:06 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Noah
Webster



 



'Snarky'? You made your bed, Iz.







- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 25, 2006
07:55





Subject: RE: [TruthTalk]
Noah Webster





 



Hatred??? Not in the least. Just good
sense IMO.  Where you “live” looks like hell to me. iz

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
6:43 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Noah
Webster



 



Do you still harbor that much hatred? Sad!







- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 25, 2006
07:35





Subject: RE: [TruthTalk]
Noah Webster





 



Funny, my ex-husband referred to
Christianity as “fantasyland”.  I told him I’d rather
live in “fantasyland” than in hell with him.  Same to you and
your belief system, I guess. iz

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
6:33 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Noah
Webster



 



No wonder you favour homeschooling! Hello fantasyland. Did
you build a bunker and stock it with survivalist gear? Is it coffee that you
wake up to smell or the odour of decaying infrastructure?







- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 25, 2006
07:28





Subject: RE: [TruthTalk]
Noah Webster





 



More liberal negativism and fear
mongering.  Wishing evil upon one’s neighbor. This is nasty fruit
that turns the stomach and repels the Holy Spirit. I’m not denying that
such may happen, but only Screwtape and Wormwood should be cheering it on from
the sidelines. iz

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
6:24 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Noah
Webster



 



Most on TT will live to see the implosion of the USA.
At what point will you declare bankruptcy. You don't have the option of moving
out of your old house and into a new one.







- Original Message ----- 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 25, 2006
07:13





Subject: [TruthTalk] Noah
Webster





 



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noah_Webster

 

As a teacher, he had come to dislike American
elementary schools. They could be overcrowded, with up to seventy children of
all ages crammed into one-room schoolhouses, poorly staffed with
untrained teachers, and poorly equipped with no desks and unsatisfactory
textbooks which came from England. Webster thought that Americans should learn from
American books, so he began writing a three volume compendium, A Grammatical Institute of the English Language.
The work consisted of a speller (published in 1783), a grammar
(published in 1784),
and a reader (published in 1785). His goal was to provide a uniquely American,
Christ-centered approach to training children.

The speller was originally entitled The First Part of the Grammatical Institute of the
English Language. The title was changed in 1786 to The American Spelling Book, and again in 1829 to The Elementary Spelling Book. Most people
called it the "Blue-Backed Speller" because of its blue cover, and
for the next one hundred years, Webster's book taught children how to read,
spell, and pronounce words. It was the most popular American book of its time;
by 1861, it was
selling a million copies per year, and its royalty of less than one cent per
copy was enough to sustain Webster in his other endeavors. Even Ben
Franklin used Webster's book to teach his granddaughter how to read.

 

Noah was generally known to be Christian. It
is reported that Noah Webster’s 1828 American Dictionary contains the
greatest number of Biblical
definitions given in any reference volume. Webster considered "education
useless without the Bible."


 "In my
 view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the first
 things in which all children, under a free government ought to be
 instructed...No truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian
 religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights
 and privileges of a free people.” (Preface to the 1828 edition of
 Webster's American Dictionary of the
 English Language ) 


Besides his dictionary, Webster also released his own
translation of the Bible in 1833. In doing the translation, Webster used the King James Version as a base. He consulted the

RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism









Jesus used the word often. 

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
7:05 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism



 



The 'if road' can be walked on only hypothetically, Iz. We
all spend time there don't we?







- Original Message ----- 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 25, 2006
07:54





Subject: RE: [TruthTalk]
Fw: Williams on Creationism





 



We wouldn’t be HAVING a problem with
Muslims if we hadn’t thrown God out of the government and schools a long
time ago! (duh) 

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
6:43 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism



 



Linda  -- politically,  I am a rightwinger  --  but
who went to war for what reason?  And, did you miss Lnace's good
point?   What kind of fit will you pitch when the Muslim population
wins a court fight to teach their view of whats happening now in our schools
!!?? 





 





-- Original message ------ 
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


> I refuse to live in fear, but rather in faith. The difference between the 
> Left and Right. iz 
> 
> -Original Message- 
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir 
> Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 6:23 AM 
> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> 
> Sikhs are permitted to wear 'sacred' daggers to school. The RCMP allow 
> turbans over traditional head gear.The Muslim creation story is in the
Q'ran 
> 
> (soon to be taught at a school near you). Think long term, Iz. When you 
> choose shallowness of thought you become 
> 
> . 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "ShieldsFamily" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED] DSFAMILY.COM>> To: 
> Sent: March 25, 2006 07:15 
> Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> 
> 
> > So, in a public school you prefer that untruth be taught long-term. 
> > Hmm 
> > 
> > -Original Message- 
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir 
> > Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 6:08 AM 
> > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

> > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> > 
> > In a public school. Think 'long term', Iz. 
> > 
> > 
> > - Original Message - 
> > From: "ShieldsFamily" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > To: 
> > Sent: March 25, 2006 06:37 
> > Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> > 
> > 
> >> S o, here we are, back to the fact that IF you believed something
to be 
> >> true 
> >> you would NOT want children to be taught about it. Can you see
why some 
> >> of 
> >> us aren't following your logic? iz 
> >> 
> >> -Original Message- 
> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance
Muir 
> >> Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 5:28 AM 
> >> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

> >> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> >> 
> >> IZ:No, I would not. 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> - Original Message - 
> >> From: "ShieldsFamily" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> >> To: 
> >> Sent: March 25, 2006 06:14 
> >> Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>> Dodging the question, as usual. iz 
> >>> 
> >>> -Original Message- 
> >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> >>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance
Muir 
> >>> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 4:54 PM 
> >>> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

> >>> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> >>> 
> >>> It ain't true. It's a hyperbolic hypothetical, Iz. 
> >>> 
> >>> . 
> >>> - Original Message - 
> >>> From: "ShieldsFamily" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> >>> To: 
> >>> Sent: March 24, 2006 17:16 
> >>> Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>>> That wasn't the question; I asked whether IF you believe
it were true, 
> >>>> you 
> >>>> would want it taught in scho

RE: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the march









Pretty pithy. 

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
6:46 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian
Thought Police on the march



 



Post-haste palpable posturings of pretend pundits.







- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 25, 2006
07:40





Subject: RE: [TruthTalk]
Canadian Thought Police on the march





 



I’d rather ride a high horse than
wallow with pigs. J iz

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
6:39 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian
Thought Police on the march



 



Judy, you are as carnal a spirited babe as I have ever known.  So
get off your high horse.   There is a difference between defending
sin and admitting to its presence.   





 





-- Original message -- 
From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



The old house was judged at the cross;
if you want to hang on to it JD that's your demise





Probably why you defend carnality so
adamantly also.  Only the new men make it because





only they are fit for the Kingdom.





 





On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 12:18:28 + [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:







Selling the old house and building the new house is precisely what does
not happen in new birth.    What you moved to avoid is the real
analogy.  I am surprised that you think differently.  





 





jd





 





From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



'Renovation of the Heart' by Dallas Willard. 







- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 25, 2006
06:20





Subject: RE: [TruthTalk]
Canadian Thought Police on the march





 



Isn’t that the truth? We sold our
100 year old house, for one thing, because we realized that the renovations
would never be finished.  As soon as you started to repair one thing it
led to another and another.  The whole house needed to be replaced one thing
after another! So we built new.  What an analogy of the difference between
“religion” and being born again of the Holy Spirit. izzy

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 6:05
PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian
Thought Police on the march



 



There is no such thing as a
"renovated" heart Lance; more misunderstanding which makes me wonder





about you and your SS conversion. 
It is a new heart; the old has passed away - all things become new.





 





On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 08:06:30 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:







My critique of this would be similar to your own. Granted
that a civil society is an improvement on an uncivil one. Granted that a moral
society is an improvement on an immoral one. Granted that some attempt to
govern their lives by the so-called 'golden rule' or, by the ten commandments.
These also offer up a social improvement on that which opposes the foregoing.





 





Please, please tell me Kevin, Judy, David and Iz that the
genuine 'renovation of the heart' would/should include all of the above? I do
believe that some of y'all have things ass backwards with that upon which you
focus (signage wise and all).







- Original Message - 





From: Kevin
Deegan 





To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 24, 2006
07:54





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Canadian Thought Police on the march





 





 





The Canadian Guanatamo 





Better be careful with your social context on the INET Lance!





Are you hating an identifiable group?





And your comments on "FUNDIES" have hurt me, I understand it
as an attack on me & multiple groups of my friends. ; )





Do you have the telE for the Tribunal? 





 





Justice in Canaduh





http://www.pressaction.com/news/weblog/full_article/petersen02272005/





passed his second year of incarceration without charge





Zündel was denied the right to cross-examine his accusers or to know
all the evidence against him.





Zündel stated that all his alleged crimes are Internet-related





 





Canadian Human Rights Commission "The truth in
some absolute sense really plays no role.
Rather, it is the social context in which the message
is delivered and heard which will determine the effect that the communication
will have on the listener. It is not the truth or falsity
per se that will evoke the emotion but rather how it is understood
by the recipient.”

Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:







Don't look now but Canada
is changing - Group Think





Gary North would be proud of you folks.

RE: [TruthTalk] Noah Webster









Hatred??? Not in the least. Just good
sense IMO.  Where you “live” looks like hell to me. iz

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
6:43 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Noah
Webster



 



Do you still harbor that much hatred? Sad!







- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 25, 2006
07:35





Subject: RE: [TruthTalk]
Noah Webster





 



Funny, my ex-husband referred to
Christianity as “fantasyland”.  I told him I’d rather
live in “fantasyland” than in hell with him.  Same to you and
your belief system, I guess. iz

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
6:33 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Noah
Webster



 



No wonder you favour homeschooling! Hello fantasyland. Did
you build a bunker and stock it with survivalist gear? Is it coffee that you
wake up to smell or the odour of decaying infrastructure?







- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 25, 2006
07:28





Subject: RE: [TruthTalk]
Noah Webster





 



More liberal negativism and fear
mongering.  Wishing evil upon one’s neighbor. This is nasty fruit
that turns the stomach and repels the Holy Spirit. I’m not denying that
such may happen, but only Screwtape and Wormwood should be cheering it on from
the sidelines. iz

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
6:24 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Noah
Webster



 



Most on TT will live to see the implosion of the USA.
At what point will you declare bankruptcy. You don't have the option of moving
out of your old house and into a new one.







- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 25, 2006
07:13





Subject: [TruthTalk] Noah
Webster





 



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noah_Webster

 

As a teacher, he had come to dislike American
elementary schools. They could be overcrowded, with up to seventy children of
all ages crammed into one-room schoolhouses, poorly staffed with
untrained teachers, and poorly equipped with no desks and unsatisfactory
textbooks which came from England. Webster thought that Americans should learn from
American books, so he began writing a three volume compendium, A Grammatical Institute of the English Language.
The work consisted of a speller (published in 1783), a grammar
(published in 1784),
and a reader (published in 1785). His goal was to provide a uniquely American,
Christ-centered approach to training children.

The speller was originally entitled The First Part of the Grammatical Institute of the
English Language. The title was changed in 1786 to The American Spelling Book, and again in 1829 to The Elementary Spelling Book. Most people
called it the "Blue-Backed Speller" because of its blue cover, and
for the next one hundred years, Webster's book taught children how to read,
spell, and pronounce words. It was the most popular American book of its time;
by 1861, it was
selling a million copies per year, and its royalty of less than one cent per
copy was enough to sustain Webster in his other endeavors. Even Ben
Franklin used Webster's book to teach his granddaughter how to read.

 

Noah was generally known to be Christian. It
is reported that Noah Webster’s 1828 American Dictionary contains the
greatest number of Biblical
definitions given in any reference volume. Webster considered "education
useless without the Bible."


 "In my
 view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the first
 things in which all children, under a free government ought to be instructed...No
 truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian religion must be
 the basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges
 of a free people.” (Preface to the 1828 edition of Webster's American Dictionary of the English Language
 ) 


Besides his dictionary, Webster also released his own
translation of the Bible in 1833. In doing the translation, Webster used the King James Version as a base. He consulted the
Hebrew and Greek along with various other versions and commentaries.

RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism









We wouldn’t be HAVING a problem with
Muslims if we hadn’t thrown God out of the government and schools a long
time ago! (duh) 

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
6:43 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism



 



Linda  -- politically,  I am a rightwinger  --  but
who went to war for what reason?  And, did you miss Lnace's good
point?   What kind of fit will you pitch when the Muslim population
wins a court fight to teach their view of whats happening now in our schools
!!?? 





 





-- Original message -- 
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


> I refuse to live in fear, but rather in faith. The difference between the 
> Left and Right. iz 
> 
> -Original Message- 
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir 
> Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 6:23 AM 
> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> 
> Sikhs are permitted to wear 'sacred' daggers to school. The RCMP allow 
> turbans over traditional head gear.The Muslim creation story is in the
Q'ran 
> 
> (soon to be taught at a school near you). Think long term, Iz. When you 
> choose shallowness of thought you become 
> 
> . 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "ShieldsFamily" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED] DSFAMILY.COM>> To: 
> Sent: March 25, 2006 07:15 
> Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> 
> 
> > So, in a public school you prefer that untruth be taught long-term. 
> > Hmm 
> > 
> > -Original Message- 
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir 
> > Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 6:08 AM 
> > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

> > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> > 
> > In a public school. Think 'long term', Iz. 
> > 
> > 
> > - Original Message - 
> > From: "ShieldsFamily" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > To: 
> > Sent: March 25, 2006 06:37 
> > Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> > 
> > 
> >> S o, here we are, back to the fact that IF you believed something
to be 
> >> true 
> >> you would NOT want children to be taught about it. Can you see
why some 
> >> of 
> >> us aren't following your logic? iz 
> >> 
> >> -Original Message- 
> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance
Muir 
> >> Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 5:28 AM 
> >> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

> >> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> >> 
> >> IZ:No, I would not. 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> - Original Message - 
> >> From: "ShieldsFamily" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> >> To: 
> >> Sent: March 25, 2006 06:14 
> >> Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>> Dodging the question, as usual. iz 
> >>> 
> >>> -Original Message- 
> >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> >>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance
Muir 
> >>> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 4:54 PM 
> >>> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

> >>> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> >>> 
> >>> It ain't true. It's a hyperbolic hypothetical, Iz. 
> >>> 
> >>> . 
> >>> - Original Message - 
> >>> From: "ShieldsFamily" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> >>> To: 
> >>> Sent: March 24, 2006 17:16 
> >>> Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>>> That wasn't the question; I asked whether IF you believe
it were true, 
> >>>> you 
> >>>> would want it taught in schools. You said NO. Pathetic,
eh? iz 
> >>>> 
> >>>> -Original Message- 
> >>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> >>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Lance Muir 
> >>>> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:49 PM 
> >>>> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

> >>>> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> >>>> 
> >>>> David you are like so right, man!
familiaritycontempt...were those 
&g

RE: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the march









I’d rather ride a high horse than
wallow with pigs. J iz

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
6:39 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian
Thought Police on the march



 



Judy, you are as carnal a spirited babe as I have ever known.  So
get off your high horse.   There is a difference between defending
sin and admitting to its presence.   





 





-- Original message -- 
From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



The old house was judged at the cross;
if you want to hang on to it JD that's your demise





Probably why you defend carnality so
adamantly also.  Only the new men make it because





only they are fit for the Kingdom.





 





On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 12:18:28 + [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:







Selling the old house and building the new house is precisely what does
not happen in new birth.    What you moved to avoid is the real
analogy.  I am surprised that you think differently.  





 





jd





 





From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



'Renovation of the Heart' by Dallas Willard. 







- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 25, 2006
06:20





Subject: RE: [TruthTalk]
Canadian Thought Police on the march





 



Isn’t that the truth? We sold our
100 year old house, for one thing, because we realized that the renovations
would never be finished.  As soon as you started to repair one thing it
led to another and another.  The whole house needed to be replaced one
thing after another! So we built new.  What an analogy of the difference
between “religion” and being born again of the Holy Spirit. izzy

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 6:05
PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian
Thought Police on the march



 



There is no such thing as a
"renovated" heart Lance; more misunderstanding which makes me wonder





about you and your SS conversion. 
It is a new heart; the old has passed away - all things become new.





 





On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 08:06:30 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:







My critique of this would be similar to your own. Granted
that a civil society is an improvement on an uncivil one. Granted that a moral
society is an improvement on an immoral one. Granted that some attempt to
govern their lives by the so-called 'golden rule' or, by the ten commandments.
These also offer up a social improvement on that which opposes the foregoing.





 





Please, please tell me Kevin, Judy, David and Iz that the
genuine 'renovation of the heart' would/should include all of the above? I do
believe that some of y'all have things ass backwards with that upon which you
focus (signage wise and all).







- Original Message - 





From: Kevin
Deegan 





To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 24, 2006
07:54





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Canadian Thought Police on the march





 





 





The Canadian Guanatamo 





Better be careful with your social context on the INET Lance!





Are you hating an identifiable group?





And your comments on "FUNDIES" have hurt me, I understand it
as an attack on me & multiple groups of my friends. ; )





Do you have the telE for the Tribunal? 





 





Justice in Canaduh





http://www.pressaction.com/news/weblog/full_article/petersen02272005/





passed his second year of incarceration without charge





Zündel was denied the right to cross-examine his accusers or to know
all the evidence against him.





Zündel stated that all his alleged crimes are Internet-related





 





Canadian Human Rights Commission "The truth in
some absolute sense really plays no role.
Rather, it is the social context in which the message
is delivered and heard which will determine the effect that the communication
will have on the listener. It is not the truth or falsity
per se that will evoke the emotion but rather how it is understood
by the recipient.”

Kevin Deegan
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:







Don't look now but Canada
is changing - Group Think





Gary North would be proud of you folks.





He tried to bring in New Geneva and by the looks of it you folks have
actually suceeded!





 





Robert Martin, professor
of constitutional law at the University
of Western Ontario
"Canada
now is a totalitarian theocracy. I see this as a country
ruled today by what I would describe as a secular state religion [of political
correctness]. Anything that is regarded as heresy or bl asphemy is not
tolerated."





 





Be careful there
have been Inquisitions against professors who at

RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism









And forbid other theories that are “politically
incorrect.”

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ShieldsFamily
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
6:36 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism



 

Solution: teach false theories.  

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
6:33 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism



 



What's scary is that you think the solution is to have an antagonistic
educator "teach" what he does not believe   -- you
thinking, of course, that he will do so without commentary that thoroughly negates
the purpose of this compromise.  In the real world,  Linda,  you
simply cannot construct a model in which this will work to our (the Christian
church  -- whose address do we use , again ??) favor.   In fact,
to get all the warring factions to agree, the stateent on creationism would be
so watered down as to be really meaningless.   





-- Original message -- 
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


Scary to the max. 

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
6:14 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism



 



Of course.  But that is not really the issue. 





 





-- Original message -- 
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

So IYO it is better to have
“secular” folk teaching untruth than truth.  I
see….  izzy

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
5:46 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism



 



It's not what is taught (for me and in this case) so much as it is WHO
TEACHES THEM.    You want the secular world to be
responsible   --   I don't.  





 





jd





 





------ Original message -- 
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


> So, here we are, back to the fact that IF you believed something to be
true 
> you would NOT want children to be taught about it. Can you see why some of

> us aren't following your logic? iz 
> 
> -Original Message- 
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir 
> Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 5:28 AM 
> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> 
> IZ:No, I would not. 
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "ShieldsFamily" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED] OM>> To: 
> Sent: March 25, 2006 06:14 
> ; Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> 
> 
> & gt; Dodging the question, as usual. iz 
> > 
> > -Original Message- 
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir 
> > Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 4:54 PM 
> > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

> > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> > 
> > It ain't true. It's a hyperbolic hypothetical, Iz. 
> > 
> > . 
> > - Original Message - 
> > From: "ShieldsFamily" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > To: 
> > Sent: March 24, 2006 17:16 
> > Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> > 
> > 
> >> That wasn't the question; I asked whether IF you believe it were
true, 
> >> you 
> >> would want it taught in schools. You said NO. Pathetic, eh? iz 
> >> 
> >> -Original Message- 
> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance
Muir 
> >> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:49 PM 
> >> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

> >> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> >> 
> >> David you are like so right, man! familiaritycontempt...were
those 
> >> the 
> >> words? Probably got it comin'. 
> >> 
> >> Actually Lady Iz, I prefer that untruth NOT be taught in schools
(i.e. 
> >> creationism) 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> - Original Mes sage - 
> >> From: "ShieldsFamily" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> >> To: 
> >> Sent: March 24, 2006 16:35 
> >> Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>> So you prefer that untruth be taught in scho ols. That's all
that's 
>

RE: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the march









Not exactly; the new house works
wonderfully!!! J 

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
6:36 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Canadian
Thought Police on the march



 



With man , it is impossible but with God, it is possible.  Your
illustration is more to the point that we are saved by the miracle of God apart
from our works.





 





-- Original message -- 
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


Perhaps a poor analogy. But we
didn’t know how to miraculously turn the old house into a new
one….we weren’t likely to live long enough. J 

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
6:18 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian
Thought Police on the march



 



Selling the old house and building the new house is precisely what does
not happen in new birth.    What you moved to avoid is the real
analogy.  I am surprised that you think differently.  





 





jd





 





-- Original message -- 
From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



'Renovation of the Heart' by Dallas
Willard. 







- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 25, 2006
06:20





Subject: RE: [TruthTalk]
Canadian Thought Police on the march





 



Isn’t that the truth? We sold our
100 year old house, for one thing, because we realized that the renovations
would never be finished.  As soon as you started to repair one thing it
led to another and another.  The whole house needed to be replaced one
thing after another! So we built new.  What an analogy of the difference
between “religion” and being born again of the Holy Spirit. izzy

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 6:05
PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian
Thought Police on the march



 



There is no such thing as a
"renovated" heart Lance; more misunderstanding which makes me wonder





about you and your SS conversion. 
It is a new heart; the old has passed away - all things become new.





 





On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 08:06:30 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:







My critique of this would be similar to your own. Granted
that a civil society is an improvement on an uncivil one. Granted that a moral
society is an improvement on an immoral one. Granted that some attempt to
govern their lives by the so-called 'golden rule' or, by the ten commandments.
These also offer up a social improvement on that which opposes the foregoing.





 





Please, please tell me Kevin, Judy, David and Iz that the
genuine 'renovation of the heart' would/should include all of the above? I do
believe that some of y'all have things ass backwards with that upon which you
focus (signage wise and all).







- Original Message - 





From: Kevin
Deegan 





To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 24, 2006
07:54





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Canadian Thought Police on the march





 





 





The Canadian Guanatamo 





Better be careful with your social context on the INET Lance!





Are you hating an identifiable group?





And your comments on "FUNDIES" have hurt me, I understand it
as an attack on me & multiple groups of my friends. ; )





Do you have the telE for the Tribunal? 





 





Justice in Canaduh





http://www.pressaction.com/news/weblog/full_article/petersen02272005/





passed his second year of incarceration without charge





Zündel was denied the right to cross-examine his accusers or to know
all the evidence against him.





Zündel stated that all his alleged crimes are Internet-related





 





Canadian Human Rights Commission "The truth in
some absolute sense really plays no role.
Rather, it is the social context in which the message
is delivered and heard which will determine the effect that the communication
will have on the listener. It is not the truth or falsity
per se that will evoke the emotion but rather how it is understood
by the recipient.”

Kevin Deegan
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:







Don't look now but Canada
is changing - Group Think





Gary North would be proud of you folks.





He tried to bring in New Geneva
and by the looks of it you folks have actually suceeded!





 





Robert Martin, professor
of constitutional law at the University of Western Ontario "Canada
now is a totalitarian theocracy. I see thi s as a
country ruled today by what I would describe as a secular state religion [of
political correctness]. Anything that i

RE: [TruthTalk] Noah Webster









Funny, my ex-husband referred to
Christianity as “fantasyland”.  I told him I’d rather live in
“fantasyland” than in hell with him.  Same to you and your belief
system, I guess. iz

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
6:33 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Noah
Webster



 



No wonder you favour homeschooling! Hello fantasyland. Did
you build a bunker and stock it with survivalist gear? Is it coffee that you
wake up to smell or the odour of decaying infrastructure?







- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 25, 2006
07:28





Subject: RE: [TruthTalk]
Noah Webster





 



More liberal negativism and fear
mongering.  Wishing evil upon one’s neighbor. This is nasty fruit
that turns the stomach and repels the Holy Spirit. I’m not denying that
such may happen, but only Screwtape and Wormwood should be cheering it on from
the sidelines. iz

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
6:24 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Noah
Webster



 



Most on TT will live to see the implosion of the USA.
At what point will you declare bankruptcy. You don't have the option of moving
out of your old house and into a new one.







- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 25, 2006
07:13





Subject: [TruthTalk] Noah
Webster





 



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noah_Webster

 

As a teacher, he had come to dislike American
elementary schools. They could be overcrowded, with up to seventy children of
all ages crammed into one-room schoolhouses, poorly staffed with
untrained teachers, and poorly equipped with no desks and unsatisfactory
textbooks which came from England. Webster thought that Americans should learn from
American books, so he began writing a three volume compendium, A Grammatical Institute of the English Language.
The work consisted of a speller (published in 1783), a grammar
(published in 1784),
and a reader (published in 1785). His goal was to provide a uniquely American,
Christ-centered approach to training children.

The speller was originally entitled The First Part of the Grammatical Institute of the
English Language. The title was changed in 1786 to The American Spelling Book, and again in 1829 to The Elementary Spelling Book. Most people
called it the "Blue-Backed Speller" because of its blue cover, and
for the next one hundred years, Webster's book taught children how to read,
spell, and pronounce words. It was the most popular American book of its time;
by 1861, it was
selling a million copies per year, and its royalty of less than one cent per
copy was enough to sustain Webster in his other endeavors. Even Ben
Franklin used Webster's book to teach his granddaughter how to read.

 

Noah was generally known to be Christian. It
is reported that Noah Webster’s 1828 American Dictionary contains the
greatest number of Biblical
definitions given in any reference volume. Webster considered "education
useless without the Bible."


 "In my
 view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the first
 things in which all children, under a free government ought to be
 instructed...No truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian
 religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights
 and privileges of a free people.” (Preface to the 1828 edition of
 Webster's American Dictionary of the
 English Language ) 


Besides his dictionary, Webster also released his own
translation of the Bible in 1833. In doing the translation, Webster used the King James Version as a base. He consulted the
Hebrew and Greek along with various other versions and commentaries.

RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism









Solution: teach false theories.  

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
6:33 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism



 



What's scary is that you think the solution is to have an antagonistic
educator "teach" what he does not believe   -- you
thinking, of course, that he will do so without commentary that thoroughly
negates the purpose of this compromise.  In the real world, 
Linda,  you simply cannot construct a model in which this will work to our
(the Christian church  -- whose address do we use , again ??) favor.  
In fact, to get all the warring factions to agree, the stateent on creationism
would be so watered down as to be really meaningless.   





-- Original message -- 
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


Scary to the max. 

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
6:14 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism



 



Of course.  But that is not really the issue. 





 





-- Original message -- 
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

So IYO it is better to have
“secular” folk teaching untruth than truth.  I
see….  izzy

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
5:46 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism



 



It's not what is taught (for me and in this case) so much as it is WHO
TEACHES THEM.    You want the secular world to be
responsible   --   I don't.  





 





jd





 





------ Original message -- 
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


> So, here we are, back to the fact that IF you believed something to be
true 
> you would NOT want children to be taught about it. Can you see why some of

> us aren't following your logic? iz 
> 
> -Original Message- 
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir 
> Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 5:28 AM 
> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> 
> IZ:No, I would not. 
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "ShieldsFamily" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED] OM>> To: 
> Sent: March 25, 2006 06:14 
> ; Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> 
> 
> & gt; Dodging the question, as usual. iz 
> > 
> > -Original Message- 
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir 
> > Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 4:54 PM 
> > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

> > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> > 
> > It ain't true. It's a hyperbolic hypothetical, Iz. 
> > 
> > . 
> > - Original Message - 
> > From: "ShieldsFamily" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > To: 
> > Sent: March 24, 2006 17:16 
> > Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> > 
> > 
> >> That wasn't the question; I asked whether IF you believe it were
true, 
> >> you 
> >> would want it taught in schools. You said NO. Pathetic, eh? iz 
> >> 
> >> -Original Message- 
> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance
Muir 
> >> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:49 PM 
> >> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

> >> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> >> 
> >> David you are like so right, man! familiaritycontempt...were
those 
> >> the 
> >> words? Probably got it comin'. 
> >> 
> >> Actually Lady Iz, I prefer that untruth NOT be taught in schools
(i.e. 
> >> creationism) 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> - Original Mes sage - 
> >> From: "ShieldsFamily" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> >> To: 
> >> Sent: March 24, 2006 16:35 
> >> Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>> So you prefer that untruth be taught in scho ols. That's all
that's 
> >>> left. 
> >>> Pathetic IMO. izzy 
> >>> 
> >>> -Original Message- 
> >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> >>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance
Muir 
> >>> Sent: Friday, March 24,

RE: [TruthTalk] Smithson goes on and on and on and on and on









“That ability came my way
shortly after learning to walk upright.”

 

Was that in your pre-Neanderthal days, or after? iz

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
6:25 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Smithson
goes on and on and on and on and on



 



If I can have no opinion about the creation because I wasn't there,
then you are excluded for the same reason.   Certainly I wasn't
there, but I know how to read AND comprehend at the same time.  That
ability came my way shortly after learning to walk upright.  When will it
happen to you?  





 





jd





 





-- Original message -- 
From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



Neither can you "debate" it,
that is, if you deal with reality at all.  You weren't there were you?





All you have in your favor are flights
of fancy that are no different than anyone else's flights of fancy.





Jesus quoted from Genesis and He quoted
as is - no explanation necessary.  He was there!!!





 





On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 11:30:28 + [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:







Why can't it be the way it is written?  Well  -  I
wouldn't know the answer to that,   Judy.  I am talking about
what is written.   26 seconds versus 144 hours is about what is
written.  Your little proof text has nothing to do with the topic of
creation and this Genesis account.   





 





The reason why you chose not to debate the issue is because you
cannot.  And you certainly have not debated the issue.   This is
the third post from you I have opened this morning  with absolutely
nothing in any of them work responding too.  Just negative
chit-chat.   jd





 






From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 







Says one from CA who has been permeated
by the "fast food" fast everything generation





Remember "He that believeth shall
not make haste"  So why does God have to be in a big hurry?





And why can't it be the way it is
written?  Because JD says it does not make sense to him?





 





On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 02:33:06 + [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:







David, allow me this moment to reveal just a tad about the
Smithmeister.  Bulldogery is that which speaks of my passion. 
Indeed,  I have gotten angry twice, here on TT,  both times following
one of your priceless comments .   Twice in three years  (going
back a ways .)?!!   Not bad,  I think.  





 





I am certainly NOT emotional in my response(s) on this
subject.  





 





There have been times, in past postings, that you have been even
brilliant in your defense.  This is not one of those times.  
Science and creation is not one of your strong points  --  at least
not this time around.   I suspect that you are distracted with other
things.   





 





To wit:   God takes 26 seconds to speak all things into
existence  -   I say. 





 





But you, wanting to present the act of creation as longer, say exactly
144 hours  (6 days times 24 hours for those of you living near the Ozarks)
retort with this -- For
example, if he spoke for the land masses to divide from the water, it took less
than a minute to say it, but hours for the land and water to do what he said.





 





Maybe that doesn't sound funny to you, but
honestly, it is a riot over here in my office.  "Those dumb old land
masses  --  they couldn't just POP into place. 
N0   sir-re.  It took time for them to move into
place  -- upwards of several hours  
!!  Com'on big D !!   Just admit that
the non-literal 24 hour crowd just might have  a point !! 





 





Look  --   if you give graduating high school
students your kind of information and send to them to Humbolt State 
-  why, within minutes, the whole bunch of them would become
atheists  !!  I have  seen  this happen  
many times.   Our young people have left their individual churches
thinking there is nothing to evolution, or whatever,  and when they sit in
front of an antongist, they are left naked, poor and numb.  





 





 You might not be impressed with my explanations offered to my
boys at U of Cal at Davies  --   but let me tell you this. 
I had been working on one line explanations for years before my boys got to
school.   All of those one-liners  thoroughly defeated
except for that one brief paragraph of thought I gave in another post 
(the eternity of matter and motion aand the philosophical advantage of 
going with the eternity of God  -  thingy).   I have talked
about "postulated" truth in the past  -- that such is considered
to be   "truth" but without the possibility of
PROOF.  I have mentioned that science is as much addicted to
"faith" as a Christian to his God  .  all things I
could communicate in minutes over the phone.   And guess what 
-- my boys called!!!  These guys each won state wrestling championships
and I coached them  (AND YES I AM MOST DEFINITELY BRAGGING).   
In

RE: [TruthTalk] Noah Webster









More liberal negativism and fear
mongering.  Wishing evil upon one’s neighbor. This is nasty fruit that
turns the stomach and repels the Holy Spirit. I’m not denying that such
may happen, but only Screwtape and Wormwood should be cheering it on from the
sidelines. iz

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
6:24 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Noah
Webster



 



Most on TT will live to see the implosion of the USA. At what
point will you declare bankruptcy. You don't have the option of moving out of
your old house and into a new one.







- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 25, 2006
07:13





Subject: [TruthTalk] Noah
Webster





 



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noah_Webster

 

As a teacher, he had come to dislike American
elementary schools. They could be overcrowded, with up to seventy children of
all ages crammed into one-room schoolhouses, poorly staffed with
untrained teachers, and poorly equipped with no desks and unsatisfactory
textbooks which came from England. Webster thought that Americans should learn from
American books, so he began writing a three volume compendium, A Grammatical Institute of the English Language.
The work consisted of a speller (published in 1783), a grammar
(published in 1784),
and a reader (published in 1785). His goal was to provide a uniquely American,
Christ-centered approach to training children.

The speller was originally entitled The First Part of the Grammatical Institute of the
English Language. The title was changed in 1786 to The American Spelling Book, and again in 1829 to The Elementary Spelling Book. Most people
called it the "Blue-Backed Speller" because of its blue cover, and
for the next one hundred years, Webster's book taught children how to read,
spell, and pronounce words. It was the most popular American book of its time;
by 1861, it was
selling a million copies per year, and its royalty of less than one cent per
copy was enough to sustain Webster in his other endeavors. Even Ben
Franklin used Webster's book to teach his granddaughter how to read.

 

Noah was generally known to be Christian. It
is reported that Noah Webster’s 1828 American Dictionary contains the
greatest number of Biblical
definitions given in any reference volume. Webster considered "education
useless without the Bible."


 "In my
 view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the first things
 in which all children, under a free government ought to be instructed...No
 truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian religion must be
 the basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges
 of a free people.” (Preface to the 1828 edition of Webster's American Dictionary of the English Language
 ) 


Besides his dictionary, Webster also released his own
translation of the Bible in 1833. In doing the translation, Webster used the King James Version as a base. He consulted the
Hebrew and Greek along with various other versions and commentaries.

RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

I refuse to live in fear, but rather in faith. The difference between the
Left and Right.  iz

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 6:23 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

Sikhs are permitted to wear 'sacred' daggers to school. The RCMP allow 
turbans over traditional head gear.The Muslim creation story is in the Q'ran

(soon to be taught at a school near you). Think long term, Iz. When you 
choose shallowness of thought you become

.
- Original Message - 
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: March 25, 2006 07:15
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism


> So, in a public school you prefer that untruth be taught long-term.
> Hmm
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
> Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 6:08 AM
> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
>
> In a public school. Think 'long term', Iz.
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: March 25, 2006 06:37
> Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
>
>
>> So, here we are, back to the fact that IF you believed something to be
>> true
>> you would NOT want children to be taught about it.  Can you see why some
>> of
>> us aren't following your logic? iz
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
>> Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 5:28 AM
>> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
>> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
>>
>> IZ:No, I would not.
>>
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: 
>> Sent: March 25, 2006 06:14
>> Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
>>
>>
>>> Dodging the question, as usual.  iz
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
>>> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 4:54 PM
>>> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
>>> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
>>>
>>> It ain't true. It's a hyperbolic hypothetical, Iz.
>>>
>>> .
>>> - Original Message - 
>>> From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> To: 
>>> Sent: March 24, 2006 17:16
>>> Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
>>>
>>>
>>>> That wasn't the question; I asked whether IF you believe it were true,
>>>> you
>>>> would want it taught in schools.  You said NO.  Pathetic, eh? iz
>>>>
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
>>>> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:49 PM
>>>> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
>>>>
>>>> David you are like so right, man! familiaritycontempt...were those
>>>> the
>>>> words? Probably got it comin'.
>>>>
>>>> Actually Lady Iz, I prefer that untruth NOT be taught in schools (i.e.
>>>> creationism)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> - Original Message - 
>>>> From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>> To: 
>>>> Sent: March 24, 2006 16:35
>>>> Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> So you prefer that untruth be taught in schools.  That's all that's
>>>>> left.
>>>>> Pathetic IMO.  izzy
>>>>>
>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
>>>>> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:25 AM
>>>>> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
>>>>>
>>>>> Still no.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> - Original Message - 
>>>>> From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>>> To: 
>>>>> Sent: March 2

RE: [TruthTalk] Creationism









many mentally mangled malevolent
males’ monotonous mutual monolithic musings

 

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
6:20 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Creationism



 



which is certainly closer than ever
to your actual opinion





 





On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 06:04:46 -0600
"ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:





many
males  mangling  monotonous
mutual monolithic musings

||

RE: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the march









Perhaps a poor analogy.  But we didn’t
know how to miraculously turn the old house into a new one….we weren’t
likely to live long enough. J 

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
6:18 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian
Thought Police on the march



 



Selling the old house and building the new house is precisely what does
not happen in new birth.    What you moved to avoid is the real
analogy.  I am surprised that you think differently.  





 





jd





 





-- Original message -- 
From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



'Renovation of the Heart' by Dallas Willard. 







- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 25, 2006
06:20





Subject: RE: [TruthTalk]
Canadian Thought Police on the march





 



Isn’t that the truth? We sold our
100 year old house, for one thing, because we realized that the renovations
would never be finished.  As soon as you started to repair one thing it
led to another and another.  The whole house needed to be replaced one
thing after another! So we built new.  What an analogy of the difference between
“religion” and being born again of the Holy Spirit. izzy

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 6:05
PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian
Thought Police on the march



 



There is no such thing as a
"renovated" heart Lance; more misunderstanding which makes me wonder





about you and your SS conversion. 
It is a new heart; the old has passed away - all things become new.





 





On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 08:06:30 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:







My critique of this would be similar to your own. Granted
that a civil society is an improvement on an uncivil one. Granted that a moral
society is an improvement on an immoral one. Granted that some attempt to
govern their lives by the so-called 'golden rule' or, by the ten commandments.
These also offer up a social improvement on that which opposes the foregoing.





 





Please, please tell me Kevin, Judy, David and Iz that the
genuine 'renovation of the heart' would/should include all of the above? I do
believe that some of y'all have things ass backwards with that upon which you
focus (signage wise and all).







- Original Message - 





From: Kevin
Deegan 





To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 24, 2006
07:54





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Canadian Thought Police on the march





 





 





The Canadian Guanatamo 





Better be careful with your social context on the INET Lance!





Are you hating an identifiable group?





And your comments on "FUNDIES" have hurt me, I understand it
as an attack on me & multiple groups of my friends. ; )





Do you have the telE for the Tribunal? 





 





Justice in Canaduh





http://www.pressaction.com/news/weblog/full_article/petersen02272005/





passed his second year of incarceration without charge





Zündel was denied the right to cross-examine his accusers or to know
all the evidence against him.





Zündel stated that all his alleged crimes are Internet-related





 





Canadian Human Rights Commission "The truth in
some absolute sense really plays no role.
Rather, it is the social context in which the message
is delivered and heard which will determine the effect that the communication
will have on the listener. It is not the truth or falsity
per se that will evoke the emotion but rather how it is understood
by the recipient.”

Kevin Deegan
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:







Don't look now but Canada
is changing - Group Think





Gary North would be proud of you folks.





He tried to bring in New Geneva and by the looks of it you folks have
actually suceeded!





 





Robert Martin, professor
of constitutional law at the University
of Western Ontario
"Canada
now is a totalitarian theocracy. I see this as a country
ruled today by what I would describe as a secular state religion [of political
correctness]. Anything that is regarded as heresy or bl asphemy is not
tolerated."





 





Be careful there
have been Inquisitions against professors who attack American Foriegn policy.
Hope you do not get turned in, for your thoughts!





 





You Can’t Say That”
Canadian thought police on the march.





By David E. Bernstein






 





I've had the good fortune of spending
this past month on the road promoting my new book about how anti-discrimination
laws are eroding civil liberties. At the end of a recent talk about the book,
an audience member asked whether I believe that freedom of _exp

RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism









Scary to the max. 

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
6:14 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism



 



Of course.  But that is not really the issue. 





 





-- Original message -- 
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


So IYO it is better to have
“secular” folk teaching untruth than truth.  I
see….  izzy

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
5:46 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism



 



It's not what is taught (for me and in this case) so much as it is WHO
TEACHES THEM.    You want the secular world to be
responsible   --   I don't.  





 





jd





 





-- Original message -- 
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

> So, here we are, back to the fact that IF you believed something to be
true 
> you would NOT want children to be taught about it. Can you see why some of

> us aren't following your logic? iz 
> 
> -Original Message- 
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir 
> Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 5:28 AM 
> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> 
> IZ:No, I would not. 
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "ShieldsFamily" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> To: 
> Sent: March 25, 2006 06:14 
> ; Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> 
> 
> & gt; Dodging the question, as usual. iz 
> > 
> > -Original Message- 
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir 
> > Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 4:54 PM 
> > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

> > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> > 
> > It ain't true. It's a hyperbolic hypothetical, Iz. 
> > 
> > . 
> > - Original Message - 
> > From: "ShieldsFamily" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > To: 
> > Sent: March 24, 2006 17:16 
> > Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> > 
> > 
> >> That wasn't the question; I asked whether IF you believe it were
true, 
> >> you 
> >> would want it taught in schools. You said NO. Pathetic, eh? iz 
> >> 
> >> -Original Message- 
> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance
Muir 
> >> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:49 PM 
> >> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

> >> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> >> 
> >> David you are like so right, man! familiaritycontempt...were
those 
> >> the 
> >> words? Probably got it comin'. 
> >> 
> >> Actually Lady Iz, I prefer that untruth NOT be taught in schools
(i.e. 
> >> creationism) 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> - Original Message - 
> >> From: "ShieldsFamily" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> >> To: 
> >> Sent: March 24, 2006 16:35 
> >> Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>> So you prefer that untruth be taught in scho ols. That's all
that's 
> >>> left. 
> >>> Pathetic IMO. izzy 
> >>> 
> >>> -Original Message- 
> >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> >>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance
Muir 
> >>> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:25 AM 
> >>> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

> >>> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> >>> 
> >>> Still no. 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> - Original Message - 
> >>> From: "ShieldsFamily" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> >>> To: 
> >>> Sent: March 23, 2006 23:04 
&g t; >>> Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>>> If you thought it was true would you want it taught in
schools, Lance? 
> >>>> JD? 
> >>>> izzy 
> >>>> 
> >>>> -Original Message- 
> >>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> >>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Lance Muir 
> >>>> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 3:32 PM 
> >>>> To: Trut

RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

So, in a public school you prefer that untruth be taught long-term.
Hmm

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 6:08 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

In a public school. Think 'long term', Iz.


- Original Message - 
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: March 25, 2006 06:37
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism


> So, here we are, back to the fact that IF you believed something to be 
> true
> you would NOT want children to be taught about it.  Can you see why some 
> of
> us aren't following your logic? iz
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
> Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 5:28 AM
> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
>
> IZ:No, I would not.
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: March 25, 2006 06:14
> Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
>
>
>> Dodging the question, as usual.  iz
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
>> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 4:54 PM
>> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
>> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
>>
>> It ain't true. It's a hyperbolic hypothetical, Iz.
>>
>> .
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: 
>> Sent: March 24, 2006 17:16
>> Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
>>
>>
>>> That wasn't the question; I asked whether IF you believe it were true,
>>> you
>>> would want it taught in schools.  You said NO.  Pathetic, eh? iz
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
>>> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:49 PM
>>> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
>>> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
>>>
>>> David you are like so right, man! familiaritycontempt...were those
>>> the
>>> words? Probably got it comin'.
>>>
>>> Actually Lady Iz, I prefer that untruth NOT be taught in schools (i.e.
>>> creationism)
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message - 
>>> From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> To: 
>>> Sent: March 24, 2006 16:35
>>> Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
>>>
>>>
>>>> So you prefer that untruth be taught in schools.  That's all that's
>>>> left.
>>>> Pathetic IMO.  izzy
>>>>
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
>>>> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:25 AM
>>>> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
>>>>
>>>> Still no.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> - Original Message - 
>>>> From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>> To: 
>>>> Sent: March 23, 2006 23:04
>>>> Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> If you thought it was true would you want it taught in schools, Lance?
>>>>> JD?
>>>>> izzy
>>>>>
>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 3:32 PM
>>>>> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
>>>>>
>>>>> David:Is that all you were meaning to say concerning RW? If that's it
>>>>> then,
>>>>> I'm with RW on this one. I don't think it should be taught in schools
>>>>> either.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> - Original Message - 
>>>>> From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>>> To: 
>>>>> Sent: March 23, 2006 15:04
>>>>> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
>>&g

[TruthTalk] Noah Webster

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noah_Webster

As a teacher, he had come to dislike American
elementary schools. They could be overcrowded, with up to seventy children of
all ages crammed into one-room schoolhouses, poorly staffed with
untrained teachers, and poorly equipped with no desks and unsatisfactory
textbooks which came from England. Webster thought that Americans should learn from
American books, so he began writing a three volume compendium, A Grammatical Institute of the English Language.
The work consisted of a speller (published in 1783), a grammar
(published in 1784),
and a reader (published in 1785). His goal was to provide a uniquely American,
Christ-centered approach to training children.

The speller was originally entitled The First Part of the Grammatical Institute of the
English Language. The title was changed in 1786 to The American Spelling Book, and again in 1829 to The Elementary Spelling Book. Most people
called it the "Blue-Backed Speller" because of its blue cover, and
for the next one hundred years, Webster's book taught children how to read,
spell, and pronounce words. It was the most popular American book of its time;
by 1861, it was
selling a million copies per year, and its royalty of less than one cent per
copy was enough to sustain Webster in his other endeavors. Even Ben
Franklin used Webster's book to teach his granddaughter how to read.

Noah was generally known to be Christian. It
is reported that Noah Webster’s 1828 American Dictionary contains the
greatest number of Biblical
definitions given in any reference volume. Webster considered "education
useless without the Bible."

"In my
view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the first
things in which all children, under a free government ought to be
instructed...No truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian
religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights
and privileges of a free people.” (Preface to the 1828 edition of
Webster's American Dictionary of the
English Language )

Besides his dictionary, Webster also released his own
translation of the Bible in 1833. In doing the translation, Webster used the King James Version as a base. He consulted the
Hebrew and Greek along with various other versions and commentaries.

RE: [TruthTalk] Creationism









many males  mangling  monotonous
mutual monolithic musings

 

J









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
5:57 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Creationism



 



as the accumulating evidence
suggests, certain Words do reveal precisely many monotonous
mutual monolithic musings mangling males





 





 





On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 05:39:37 -0600 "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:





Mealy mouthed
male.

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
5:37 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Creationism



 



..mutual mouthy male mashing





 





On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 04:32:50 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:







myth (feminists' rhetoric) 





 





 







||





 





On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 ..Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:







..Let God be true and every man a liar







-





 





..Funny how some guys take a false
assumption to the extreme, hey Judy? iz

RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism









So IYO it is better to have “secular”
folk teaching untruth than truth.  I see…. 
izzy

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
5:46 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism



 



It's not what is taught (for me and in this case) so much as it is WHO
TEACHES THEM.    You want the secular world to be
responsible   --   I don't.  





 





jd





 





-- Original message -- 
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


> So, here we are, back to the fact that IF you believed something to be
true 
> you would NOT want children to be taught about it. Can you see why some of

> us aren't following your logic? iz 
> 
> -Original Message- 
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir 
> Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 5:28 AM 
> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> 
> IZ:No, I would not. 
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "ShieldsFamily" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> To: 
> Sent: March 25, 2006 06:14 
> Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> 
> 
> & gt; Dodging the question, as usual. iz 
> > 
> > -Original Message- 
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir 
> > Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 4:54 PM 
> > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

> > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> > 
> > It ain't true. It's a hyperbolic hypothetical, Iz. 
> > 
> > . 
> > - Original Message - 
> > From: "ShieldsFamily" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > To: 
> > Sent: March 24, 2006 17:16 
> > Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> > 
> > 
> >> That wasn't the question; I asked whether IF you believe it were
true, 
> >> you 
> >> would want it taught in schools. You said NO. Pathetic, eh? iz 
> >> 
> >> -Original Message- 
> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance
Muir 
> >> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:49 PM 
> >> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

> >> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> >> 
> >> David you are like so right, man! familiaritycontempt...were
those 
> >> the 
> >> words? Probably got it comin'. 
> >> 
> >> Actually Lady Iz, I prefer that untruth NOT be taught in schools
(i.e. 
> >> creationism) 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> - Original Message - 
> >> From: "ShieldsFamily" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> >> To: 
> >> Sent: March 24, 2006 16:35 
> >> Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>> So you prefer that untruth be taught in scho ols. That's all
that's 
> >>> left. 
> >>> Pathetic IMO. izzy 
> >>> 
> >>> -Original Message- 
> >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> >>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance
Muir 
> >>> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:25 AM 
> >>> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

> >>> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> >>> 
> >>> Still no. 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> - Original Message - 
> >>> From: "ShieldsFamily" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> >>> To: 
> >>> Sent: March 23, 2006 23:04 
> >>> Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>>> If you thought it was true would you want it taught in
schools, Lance? 
> >>>> JD? 
> >>>> izzy 
> >>>> 
> >>>> -Original Message- 
> >>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> >>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Lance Muir 
> >>>> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 3:32 PM 
> >>>> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

> >>>> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> >>>> 
> >>>> David:Is that all you were meaning to say concerning RW?
If that's it 
> >>>> then, 
> >>>> I'm with RW on this one. I don't think it should be
taught in schools 
> >>>> either. 
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>&g

[TruthTalk] Archaeologist uses Scripture









 

Archaeologist uses Scripture
to uncover King David's palace 
'I
work with the Bible in one hand and the tools of excavation in the other'

 

http://www.momentmag.com/olam/Apr06/MOM-2006-04_mazar.html
 

 

(Why can’t the mormons do this with their “bible”???
J izzy

[TruthTalk] The violent take it by force.....









From WorldNetDaily.com.  

 

Church members beat, hog-tie burglary
suspect

NEWS 12 Staff Report

Friday, March 24, 2006

Parishioners fed up with a string of
burglaries at their West Palm Beach
church took matters into their own hands by capturing and hog-tying a man who climbed
in through a window early this morning.

Armed with baseball bats, members of the Church of Nazarene at 5312 Broadway spent the
night in the building to guard it.


 
  
  
  
  
  Video: Burglary
  suspect nabbed, tied up 
  
  
  
   

 

   
  
   
  
   

More crime coverage

   
   

• Post crime blog
• PBC wanted fugitives
• Live police/fire scanners
• Booking log, sex offenders
Sound off: Your views 

   
   

More local news

   
   

Latest breaking news, photos
and all of today's Post stories.
• State news
Storm 2006: Hurricane news
• Sound off in the forum
• Columnists
• Crime, live scanners
• Photos | Special reports
• Weather | Traffic | Obituaries

   
  
  
  
 


At about 1 this
morning, a man broke in. Church members were waiting for him inside. They beat
him with their bats and tied him up with tape. 

Police identified the burglary suspect as
Ralph Thomas. 

Thomas was treated at a local hospital and
charged with burglary and possession of burglary tools.

[TruthTalk] Lack of Sleep Led to Dinosaurs' Demise









And I thought it was just because they were too big to fit on the ark! J
izzy

 

'Lack of deep sleep led to dinosaurs' demise'

RHIANNON EDWARD 

DINOSAURS were most likely killed off because they
never got a good night's sleep, scientists have claimed. 

Giant meteorites from outer space, fire storms, tidal
waves and an ice age have all been suggested by experts to explain the demise
of T-Rex and other giant dinosaurs. 






However, the latest theory to explain their extinction claims they did not
survive because their reptilian sleeping patterns meant their brains did not
learn new skills properly. 

Unlike mammals and birds, reptiles are unable to
experience slow wave sleep, the type of sleep believed to be responsible for
boosting memories, especially those connected to performing new tasks. 

As a result, reptiles are much more limited in the
type of complex behaviour they can experience than other animals such as
mammals and birds. 

The implication of new research by Niels Rattenborg,
of the Max Planck Institute for Ornithology in Germany, is that the inability of
dinosaurs - which are ancestors of modern-day reptiles - to experience slow
wave sleep may have been one of the reasons why they became extinct. 

Slow wave - or deep - sleep leads to enhancements in
both learning and physical performance. It effectively shuts down the parts of
the brain that have learned new skills and allows this learning to become
consolidated without interruption. 

Without this crucial ability it could be that, when
the earth experienced huge climatic changes towards the end of the era of the
dinosaurs, they were unable to pick up sufficient new tricks to learn their way
out of extinction. 

The research also shows that, although birds and
mammals appear to have developed the same brain structures and, importantly, the
same series of connections between structures that allow slow wave sleep to
take place, these developments must have happened independently. 

Despite the common ancestry of birds and reptiles
among the dinosaurs, regarding sleep at least it is in fact birds and mammals
that have more in common in terms of brain structure and function. 

The paper is published by Elsevier in its journal
Brain Research Bulletin.

RE: [TruthTalk] Creationism









Mealy mouthed male.

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
5:37 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Creationism



 



..mutual mouthy male mashing





 





On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 04:32:50 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:







myth (feminists' rhetoric) 





 





 







||





 





On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 ..Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:







..Let God be true and every man a liar







-





 





..Funny how some guys take a false
assumption to the extreme, hey Judy? iz

[TruthTalk]









From WorldNetDaily.com:

Rome, 22 March (AKI) - Abdul Rahman,
the man condemned to death for having abandoned Islam, is just one of many
Afghanis who decide to convert to Christianity, but most are forced to do so
secretly, argues Arab Christian author Camille Eid. In an interview with
Adnkronos International (AKI) Eid, author of "The Christians who come from
Islam", said during a recent trip to Afghanistan he met many similar
cases. "They are Christians who have sprung out of nowhere and it's unclear
how they have decided by themselves to convert" he added. The US, Italy, Germany
and Canada
have all expressed concern over the fate of Rahman who converted to
Christianity 16 years ago. 

"I also spoke to a priest who had passed through Kabul and he said he was amazed that women
sitting on the ground at the local market saw he was a foreigner and a
Christian, by the cross he was wearing, and attracted his attention to them by
making a sign of the cross with their fingers. He was convinced that they were
trying to send him a coded message" said Eid, a Lebanese Maronite who
lives in Italy.

According to the author, Abdul Rahman is not the first Afghan citizen to have
been sentenced to death for apostasy since the fall of the Taliban regime. 

"The Islamic Taliban militias who still control entire areas of the
country issued a statement in June 2004 in which they referred to a death
sentence handed down to an Afghan converted to Christianity, Moulawi Asad
Allah."

RE: [TruthTalk] Creationism









Wow; now we are accused of being “feminists”. 
LOL! iz

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
5:33 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Creationism



 



myth (feminists' rhetoric) 





 





 







||





 





On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 ..Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:







..Let God be true and every man a liar







-





 





..Funny how some guys take a false
assumption to the extreme, hey Judy? iz

RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

So, here we are, back to the fact that IF you believed something to be true
you would NOT want children to be taught about it.  Can you see why some of
us aren't following your logic? iz

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 5:28 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

IZ:No, I would not.


- Original Message - 
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: March 25, 2006 06:14
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism


> Dodging the question, as usual.  iz
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 4:54 PM
> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
>
> It ain't true. It's a hyperbolic hypothetical, Iz.
>
> .
> - Original Message - 
> From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: March 24, 2006 17:16
> Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
>
>
>> That wasn't the question; I asked whether IF you believe it were true, 
>> you
>> would want it taught in schools.  You said NO.  Pathetic, eh? iz
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
>> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:49 PM
>> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
>> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
>>
>> David you are like so right, man! familiaritycontempt...were those 
>> the
>> words? Probably got it comin'.
>>
>> Actually Lady Iz, I prefer that untruth NOT be taught in schools (i.e.
>> creationism)
>>
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: 
>> Sent: March 24, 2006 16:35
>> Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
>>
>>
>>> So you prefer that untruth be taught in schools.  That's all that's 
>>> left.
>>> Pathetic IMO.  izzy
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
>>> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:25 AM
>>> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
>>> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
>>>
>>> Still no.
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message - 
>>> From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> To: 
>>> Sent: March 23, 2006 23:04
>>> Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
>>>
>>>
>>>> If you thought it was true would you want it taught in schools, Lance?
>>>> JD?
>>>> izzy
>>>>
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 3:32 PM
>>>> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
>>>>
>>>> David:Is that all you were meaning to say concerning RW? If that's it
>>>> then,
>>>> I'm with RW on this one. I don't think it should be taught in schools
>>>> either.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> - Original Message - 
>>>> From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>> To: 
>>>> Sent: March 23, 2006 15:04
>>>> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The CNN report:  Asked if creationism should be taught in schools,
>>>>> Williams
>>>>> said: "I don't think it should, actually. No, no."
>>>>>
>>>>> So how have I mischaracterized him?
>>>>>
>>>>> David Miller
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> - Original Message - 
>>>>> From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>>> To: 
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 10:41 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> David:YIKES!! You mischaracterize both Williams and his position.
>>>>> DOUBLE
>>>>> YIKES!! I know that you will continue to do so. You are truly trapped,
>>>>> David. You've bound yourself

RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Goodbye, and thanks for all the ichthys









“Snarkiness”  I like that.  Blessing, Debbie,
to you and yours.  I’ll miss your beautiful writing talent.  izzy

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006
5:24 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: [TruthTalk] Fw: Goodbye,
and thanks for all the ichthys



 



 





- Original Message - 



From: Debbie Sawczak 





To: 'Lance Muir'






Sent: March 24, 2006
21:02





Subject: Goodbye, and thanks
for all the ichthys







 





I was afraid this was too long, but
David's leisurely post has given me courage to blather a little, like the
parting guest who suddenly becomes talkative in the doorway. 

 

I’m glad for the time I spent on TT, even
though I left. I did learn stuff, especially early on as I
encountered some ideas for the first time; certain posts,
especially at the beginning, opened windows for me. Even some of the more
plodding discussions were an occasion for clarifying my own thinking or,
alternatively, fuzzifying it if it was a little too sharp! And that may have
been the best benefit of TT. 

 

I remember being surprised at the very
beginning by the aggressiveness—a newish thing for me among believers even
though I’ve moved in a wide variety of Christian circles. The exposure wasn’t
all bad--it made me a bit more assertive and thicker-skinned, and forced me to
recognize how easily I can be provoked to snarkiness myself. But I often
felt sad after an exchange. Sometimes, on the other hand, I was completely
taken aback by the generosity and affirmation in people's responses. So I hope
that if the experience has made me less naive about the
behaviour of Christians, it hasn't gone so far as to make me cynical. I
still think I might have misunderstood the culture of TT...I'm not
very astute that way.   

 

I’ve seen something of the serious
limitations of e-mail, and yet I feel like I’ve met real people. I found
every character on TT interesting and memorable, and enjoyed the different
‘flavours’ and the occasional anecdotal glimpses into people’s lives.
I'd love to meet you all face to face. In the eschaton if not before!

 

Thank you, Lance, for introducing me to
TT and encouraging me to participate--an act so beautifully typical
of you. But I especially want to thank David: you relentlessly
engaged everybody, no matter how intractable, and even at your crazy-makingest
you had the best manners of all--or at least made the best show of manners! J To me, the act of
keeping this forum so wide open as long as you did, and the latitude you
have given people to be themselves, show a broadness above and beyond
your words that commands my respect.

 

Just to irritate some of you, I was going
to finish with an excerpt quoting Bonhoeffer on how we reflect Christ to each
other, from the chapter I've just finished working on in Victor's book.
Instead, here's something less lofty, which for me is a kind of parable for TT:

 

I'm watching my husband gently
heave our sleeping youngest son up from the living room couch where he has
repaired in frustration at his brother's endless, irritating snores. He
had taken his pillow and blankets there after incrementally severe degrees
of poking and bedshaking had failed to correct his brother's breathing. But now
he falls forward into his dad's arms, willingly allows himself to be
moved, and wakes up as he is conducted by hands on his shoulders back to his
own bed. He crawls in beneath the bunk of his brother who snores
impenitently on, and settles back to sleep. This is repeated two or three
times a week, but is always forgotten in the morning, and neither brother
will tolerate talk of separate bedrooms.

 

Open hands, everybody, and Jude 24 &
25.

 

Love

Debbie

 



 

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.1/291 - Release Date: 3/24/2006

RE: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the march









Matthew
11:12
" From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven
suffers violence, and violent men
take it by force.

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 8:36
PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: Kevin Deegan
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian
Thought Police on the march



 



I was responding to this jewel:   violent thinking is not violent action 
> And who gets elected to be the thought
police anyway? 





 





-- Original message -- 
From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
If I am talking like Hill & North
it must be a typo or More Likely a Parity Error on your end!

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote: 



No one's talking about "thought police,"  Kev.  If
you want to talk like Hill and North  -  expect the rest of us who
listen to you to think you are of the same ilk, denials not
withstanding.    That's all I am saying.  





 





 





 





jd





 





-- Original message -- 
From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

> violent thinking is not violent action 
> And who gets elected to be the thought police anyway? 
> 
> --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
> 
> > IFO can accept this self-characterization. But when your words sound 
> > like North's or Paul Hill's, they allow others to see a similarity in

> > your thoughts as compared to the violent thinking of those named 
> > above. 
> > 
> > jd 
> > 
> > -- Original message -- 
> > From: Kevin Deegan 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > 
> > > First you accuse me of being Gary North and then you tell me you

> > agree 
> > > with my critique of his philosophy? (see your post below) 
> > > Which is it Lance? I do not understa nd such behavior it seems 
> > > irrational to me. 
> > > 
> > > I absolutely am not a ROMAN Papist. 
> > > 
> > > Seems to me the Canadian Gov't is on a witch hunt the likes of 
> > > MccarthyISM. 
> > > The State of Canada has become the Potentate on a hunt for
illegal 
> > > thoughts and will enFORCE by threat of law and public censure. 
> > > Only diff McCarthy was right the US had been infiltrated! 
> > > 
> > > The only force I believe in is the Force of God's words. 
> > > You have the right to believe anything you want and I have the 
> > right to 
> > > violently disagree with words NO SWORDS! 
> > > 
> > > --- Lance Muir wrote: 
> > > 
> > > > Did you know that 'he' will not repeat that infamous line
no 
> > matter 
> > > > who asks? 
> > > > 
> > > > So, K evin, I undertake to write more than 1 line and, you
do what 
> > you 
> > > > do so well; simply give up a smart-ass reply. It's little
wonder 
> > that 
> > > > SPers are not well received either in Salt Lake
or, anywhere 
> > else! 
> > > > - Original Message - 
> > > > From: Kevin Deegan 
> > > > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

> > > > Sent: March 24, 2006 08:15 
> > > > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the
march 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Are you talking to me, Gary North? 
> > > > 
> > > > Lance Muir wrote: 
> > > > My critique of this would be similar to your own. Granted
that a 
> > > > civil society is an improvement on an uncivil one. Granted
that a 
> > 
> > > > moral society is an improvement on an immoral one...
Granted that 
> & gt; ; some 
> > > > attempt to govern their lives by the so-called 'golden
rule' or, 
> > by 
> > > > the ten commandments. These also offer up a social
improvement on 
> > 
> > > > that which opposes the foregoing. 
> > > > 
> > > > Please, please tell me Kevin, Judy, David and Iz that the
genuine 
> > 
> > > > 'renovation of the heart' would/should include all of the
above? 
> > I do 
> > > > believe that some of y'all have things ass backwards with
that 
> > upon 
> > > > which you focus (signage wise and all). 
> > > > - Original Message - 
> > > > From: Kevin Deegan 
> > > > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

> > > > Sent: March 24, 2006 07:54 
> > > > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the
march 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > < BR>& gt; > > > The Canadian Guanatamo 
> > > > Better be careful with your social context on the INET
Lance! 
> > > > Are you hating an identifiable group? 
> > > > And your comments on "FUNDIES" have hurt me, I
understand it as 
> > > > an attack on me & multiple groups of my friends. ; ) 
> > > > Do you have the telE for the Tribunal? 
> > > > 
> > > > Justice in Canaduh 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > http://www.pressaction.com/news/weblog/full_article/petersen02272005/

> > 
> > > > passed his second year of incarceration without charge 
> > > > Zündel was denied the right to cross-examine his accusers
or to 
> > > > know all the evidence against him. 
> > > > Zündel stated that all his alleged crimes are
Internet-related 
> > > > 
> > > > Canadian Human Rights Commission "The trut h in some
absolute 
> > > > sense really plays no role. Rather, it is the social
cont

RE: [TruthTalk] Canadian Thought Police on the march









Isn’t that the truth? We sold our
100 year old house, for one thing, because we realized that the renovations would
never be finished.  As soon as you started to repair one thing it led to
another and another.  The whole house needed to be replaced one thing after
another! So we built new.  What an analogy of the difference between “religion”
and being born again of the Holy Spirit. izzy

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 6:05
PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Canadian
Thought Police on the march



 



There is no such thing as a
"renovated" heart Lance; more misunderstanding which makes me wonder





about you and your SS conversion. 
It is a new heart; the old has passed away - all things become new.





 





On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 08:06:30 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:







My critique of this would be similar to your own. Granted
that a civil society is an improvement on an uncivil one. Granted that a moral
society is an improvement on an immoral one. Granted that some attempt to
govern their lives by the so-called 'golden rule' or, by the ten commandments.
These also offer up a social improvement on that which opposes the foregoing.





 





Please, please tell me Kevin, Judy, David and Iz that the
genuine 'renovation of the heart' would/should include all of the above? I do
believe that some of y'all have things ass backwards with that upon which you
focus (signage wise and all).







- Original Message - 





From: Kevin
Deegan 





To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 24, 2006
07:54





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Canadian Thought Police on the march





 





 





The Canadian Guanatamo 





Better be careful with your social context on the INET Lance!





Are you hating an identifiable group?





And your comments on "FUNDIES" have hurt me, I understand it
as an attack on me & multiple groups of my friends. ; )





Do you have the telE for the Tribunal? 





 





Justice in Canaduh





http://www.pressaction.com/news/weblog/full_article/petersen02272005/





passed his second year of incarceration without charge





Zündel was denied the right to cross-examine his accusers or to know
all the evidence against him.





Zündel stated that all his alleged crimes are Internet-related





 





Canadian Human Rights Commission "The truth in
some absolute sense really plays no role.
Rather, it is the social context in which the message
is delivered and heard which will determine the effect that the communication
will have on the listener. It is not the truth or falsity
per se that will evoke the emotion but rather how it is understood
by the recipient.”

Kevin Deegan
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:







Don't look now but Canada is
changing - Group Think





Gary North would be proud
of you folks.





He tried to bring in New
Geneva and by the looks of it you folks have actually suceeded!





 





Robert Martin, professor of
constitutional law at the University
of Western Ontario "Canada now is a
totalitarian theocracy. I see this as a country ruled today by what I would
describe as a secular state religion [of political correctness]. Anything that
is regarded as heresy or blasphemy is not
tolerated."





 





Be careful there have been Inquisitions against
professors who attack American Foriegn policy. Hope you do not get turned in,
for your thoughts!





 





You Can’t Say That”
Canadian thought police on the march.





By David E. Bernstein 





 





I've had the good fortune of
spending this past month on the road promoting my new book about how
anti-discrimination laws are eroding civil liberties. At the end of a recent
talk about the book, an audience member asked whether I believe that freedom of
_expression_ is really at risk in the United States from laws meant to
aid women and minorities. The heart of my response is, "Look at what's
happening in Canada.
If we don't watch out, we're next."





The decline of freedom of _expression_ in Canada began with seemingly minor
and





understandable speech restrictions. In 1990, the Canadian supreme court
upheld the conviction of James Keegstra, a public-high-school teacher, for
propagating Holocaust denial and anti-Semitic views to his public high-school
students, despite repeated warnings from his superiors to stop. Keegstra was
convicted of the crime of "willfully promoting hatred against an
identifiable group," which carries a penalty of up to two years in jail.
Criminalizing hate speech, the court stated, was a "reasonable"
restriction on _expression_, and it therefore passed constitutional muster.





Two years later, the same court held that obscenity laws are unconstitutional
to the extent they criminalize material based on sexual content alone. However,
any "degrading or dehumanizing" depiction of sexual activity —
includ

RE: [TruthTalk] Smithson goes on and on and on









Wow; quite a memorable story, jd.  Thanks,
iz

 













From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]







Since TT is almost over  - one more story.  My oldest
daughter came to me as a14 year old with her first job.   Her boss
was an atheist.  She tried to convert him and got beat up in the
process.  "Dad,  how do I defend inspiration to
Bruce?"  





 





"Julie, you don't even try.   Do this  -- 
explain to him that all of the writers of the New Testament scriptures were
murdered for their beliefs and then ask him,  'Bruce, don't you think
you should at least examine what it was they died for ?"  





He told her he was prepared for any response but that one
!!  That opened a door that was slammed shut two weeks later in his
drowning death at the lake.  Was there light in life because of that
talk?    I like to think there was.  





 





jd

RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

Dodging the question, as usual.  iz

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 4:54 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

It ain't true. It's a hyperbolic hypothetical, Iz.

.
- Original Message - 
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: March 24, 2006 17:16
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism


> That wasn't the question; I asked whether IF you believe it were true, you
> would want it taught in schools.  You said NO.  Pathetic, eh? iz
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:49 PM
> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
>
> David you are like so right, man! familiaritycontempt...were those the
> words? Probably got it comin'.
>
> Actually Lady Iz, I prefer that untruth NOT be taught in schools (i.e.
> creationism)
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: March 24, 2006 16:35
> Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
>
>
>> So you prefer that untruth be taught in schools.  That's all that's left.
>> Pathetic IMO.  izzy
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
>> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:25 AM
>> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
>> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
>>
>> Still no.
>>
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: 
>> Sent: March 23, 2006 23:04
>> Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
>>
>>
>>> If you thought it was true would you want it taught in schools, Lance?
>>> JD?
>>> izzy
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 3:32 PM
>>> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
>>> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
>>>
>>> David:Is that all you were meaning to say concerning RW? If that's it
>>> then,
>>> I'm with RW on this one. I don't think it should be taught in schools
>>> either.
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message - 
>>> From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> To: 
>>> Sent: March 23, 2006 15:04
>>> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
>>>
>>>
>>>> The CNN report:  Asked if creationism should be taught in schools,
>>>> Williams
>>>> said: "I don't think it should, actually. No, no."
>>>>
>>>> So how have I mischaracterized him?
>>>>
>>>> David Miller
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> - Original Message - 
>>>> From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>> To: 
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 10:41 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> David:YIKES!! You mischaracterize both Williams and his position. 
>>>> DOUBLE
>>>> YIKES!! I know that you will continue to do so. You are truly trapped,
>>>> David. You've bound yourself with your own theology (not, as you
>>>> believe,
>>>> Scripture). Your teachers will one day answer for what they've done to
>>>> you
>>>> and, what you now do to others.Yikes! Yikes! Yikes (that'd be triple
>>>> yikes)
>>>> - Original Message - 
>>>> From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>> To: 
>>>> Sent: March 22, 2006 10:25
>>>> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Lance wrote:
>>>>>> If Williams is a 'liberal loonie' then
>>>>>> you are a 'sectarian loonie' , David.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm sectarian only in the sense that the holy and the profane ought to
>>>>> be
>>>>> separate.  I am not sectarian within the group of those who have
>>>>> submitted
>>>>> unto Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.
>>

RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism









Exactly right that Horace Mann introduced
humanism in place of Christianity in the public education system.  Until him
the Bible was the basic textbook.  izzy

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David
 Miller
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 9:56
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism



 



The history of public education is a little more complicated than
this.  I think the more forceful argument was making education available
to those who were not wealthy.  The non-sectarian nature of it came in
because the originators, men like Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Horace
Mann, etc., were Deists and Unitarian, along with the fact that the U.S. was a
melting pot of various religious groups.  One simply cannot offer public
education for all without setting aside the individual religious beliefs and
focusing upon the knowledge that was more common among the different religious
sects.





 





What many people do not realize is that the concept of schools came
from Christianity.  Almost all the institutions of learning first came
about through the Roman Catholic Church, the Anglican Church, the Calvinists,
the Puritans, etc.  Interestingly, non-Christian education never
materialized until everyone was forced to pay for it through taxation, through
the efforts of men like Horace Mann.  Mann converted from Calvinism
to the Unitarian church.





 





David Miller





 







- Original Message - 





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 





Sent: Friday, March 24,
2006 9:12 AM





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Fw: Williams on Creationism





 





Public education was first offered as an alternaive to Christian
education.  





 





jd





 





-- Original message -- 
From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>




No, it is not 'strange'. In most cases 'creation science'
reflects neither.







- Original Message - 





From: David Miller 





To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 24, 2006
08:33





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Fw: Williams on Creationism





 





She should not teach them that the universe IS geocentric, but she should
teach them the geocentric model, evidence for and against it, and its
place in the history of science and religion.  Isn't it strange how
science has no problem doing this, but it does have a problem with creation
science being dealt with in the same way?





 





David Miller







- Original Message - 





From: Lance Muir






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: Friday, March 24,
2006 4:30 AM





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Fw: Williams on Creationism





 





You may feel to teach them that the universe is geocentric
if you like. 







- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 23, 2006
23:23





Subject: RE: [TruthTalk]
Fw: Williams on Creationism





 



I’m so thankful that my 4
grandchildren are being homeschooled so they can be taught the Truth! Lance and
jd; should it be illegal for them to be taught about Creationism at home? If
not, why should it be illegal for them to be taught anywhere else? Do you have
any idea about the Christian roots of our public education system (before the
lefties took over?) izzy

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006
5:39 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism



 



WE DON'T NEED TO BE IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM IF WE ARE
DOING OUR JOB  





 





Our Job is NOT the school system or Politics, render unto Cesear





 





Unless of course you are swayed by the Reconstructionists.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:







What in the hell do you think I have been talking about?  
You are so far off course here, as to be just plain silly.  I am not a
"big banger" nor do I believe that a lung fish is ancient
family.   In fact,  I am with the growing opinion that there has
not been enough time for evolution to have worked  it's wonders. That
doesn't mean evolution at some level does not exist.   But, now, it
is I who digresses.





 





My point?   If the church had not surrendered its college
age young people to the Unisersity system,   we would not need
this discussion.   The church is not in the High School and our
senior class has yet to convert to atheistic evolutionism...proving that WE
DON'T NEED TO BE IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM IF WE ARE DOING OUR JOB  --  AS
A CHURCH OF CHRIST IN MINISTRY TO THE WORLD  ---   and I
am not just talking about "preaching to the lost."   
Christ actually spent very little of His time preaching.   Most
of His day was spent in the offering of benevolent blessings to
others.  





 





jd

RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism









Are you aware that it was a Christian who
discovered the fallacy of that belief? 

Galileo Galilei, though famous for his scientific achievements in
astronomy, mathematics, and physics and infamous for his controversy with the
church was, in fact, a devout Christian who saw not a divorce of religion and science
but only a healthy marriage: "God is known by nature in his works, and by
doctrine in his revealed word."

iz

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:51
PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism



 



Are you aware (seriously) that for a lengthy period people
believed God's Word AND believe in a geocentric universe?







- Original Message ----- 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 24, 2006
16:36





Subject: RE: [TruthTalk]
Fw: Williams on Creationism





 



Fortunately we comprehend the truth since
we believe God’s Word. 

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:30
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism



 



You may feel to teach them that the universe is geocentric
if you like. 







- Original Message ----- 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 23, 2006
23:23





Subject: RE: [TruthTalk]
Fw: Williams on Creationism





 



I’m so thankful that my 4
grandchildren are being homeschooled so they can be taught the Truth! Lance and
jd; should it be illegal for them to be taught about Creationism at home? If
not, why should it be illegal for them to be taught anywhere else? Do you have
any idea about the Christian roots of our public education system (before the
lefties took over?) izzy

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006
5:39 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism



 



WE DON'T NEED TO BE IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM IF WE ARE
DOING OUR JOB  





 





Our Job is NOT the school system or Politics, render unto Cesear





 





Unless of course you are swayed by the Reconstructionists.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:







What in the hell do you think I have been talking about?  
You are so far off course here, as to be just plain silly.  I am not a
"big banger" nor do I believe that a lung fish is ancient
family.   In fact,  I am with the growing opinion that there has
not been enough time for evolution to have worked  it's wonders. That
doesn't mean evolution at some level does not exist.   But, now, it
is I who digresses.





 





My point?   If the church had not surrendered its college
age young people to the Unisersity system,   we would not need
this discussion.   The church is not in the High School and our
senior class has yet to convert to atheistic evolutionism...proving that WE
DON'T NEED TO BE IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM IF WE ARE DOING OUR JOB  --  AS
A CHURCH OF CHRIST IN MINISTRY TO THE WORLD  ---   and I
am not just talking about "preaching to the lost."   
Christ actually spent very little of His time preaching.   Most
of His day was spent in the offering of benevolent blessings to
others.  





 





jd 





 





-- Original message -- 
From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



Why advocate teaching what you don't
know JD?  As has already been noted "Only when we prove





evolution do we need to concern
ourselves with "harmonizing" evolutionism with theism.  Evidence
that





this level of proof has not been
achieved includes the long list of scientists and others who have abandoned





Darwinism because they became convinced
that the scientific evidence DOES NOT support it.  So why





would you want to warp young minds with
useless information that is not proven?   judyt





[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 









I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school
systems and you are talking about religious people!!!   Amazing





 





Maybe we should install a different creationist version for every major
school system      I am sure we can
find enough fundy ideas to go around.  That way , you would have to
worry about consensus and no one will have the slightest idea what to
believe.  but you and Kev will be happy.  CONSENSUS BE
DAMNED.   KNOW THE TRUTH AND IT SHALL MAKE YOU FREE !!  jd





 





 





 





From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



I surmised as much JD; my point being
that religious ppl have many





and varied points of view about anything
and everything and this is no





measure by which to gauge what is
needful or true.





 





On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:20:02 + [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

That wasn't the question; I asked whether IF you believe it were true, you
would want it taught in schools.  You said NO.  Pathetic, eh? iz

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:49 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

David you are like so right, man! familiaritycontempt...were those the 
words? Probably got it comin'.

Actually Lady Iz, I prefer that untruth NOT be taught in schools (i.e. 
creationism)


- Original Message - 
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: March 24, 2006 16:35
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism


> So you prefer that untruth be taught in schools.  That's all that's left.
> Pathetic IMO.  izzy
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:25 AM
> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
>
> Still no.
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: March 23, 2006 23:04
> Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
>
>
>> If you thought it was true would you want it taught in schools, Lance? 
>> JD?
>> izzy
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
>> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 3:32 PM
>> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
>> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
>>
>> David:Is that all you were meaning to say concerning RW? If that's it
>> then,
>> I'm with RW on this one. I don't think it should be taught in schools
>> either.
>>
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: 
>> Sent: March 23, 2006 15:04
>> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
>>
>>
>>> The CNN report:  Asked if creationism should be taught in schools,
>>> Williams
>>> said: "I don't think it should, actually. No, no."
>>>
>>> So how have I mischaracterized him?
>>>
>>> David Miller
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message - 
>>> From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> To: 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 10:41 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
>>>
>>>
>>> David:YIKES!! You mischaracterize both Williams and his position. DOUBLE
>>> YIKES!! I know that you will continue to do so. You are truly trapped,
>>> David. You've bound yourself with your own theology (not, as you 
>>> believe,
>>> Scripture). Your teachers will one day answer for what they've done to
>>> you
>>> and, what you now do to others.Yikes! Yikes! Yikes (that'd be triple
>>> yikes)
>>> - Original Message - 
>>> From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> To: 
>>> Sent: March 22, 2006 10:25
>>> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
>>>
>>>
>>>> Lance wrote:
>>>>> If Williams is a 'liberal loonie' then
>>>>> you are a 'sectarian loonie' , David.
>>>>
>>>> I'm sectarian only in the sense that the holy and the profane ought to
>>>> be
>>>> separate.  I am not sectarian within the group of those who have
>>>> submitted
>>>> unto Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.
>>>>
>>>> Lance wrote:
>>>>> He is a brother in Christ who believes
>>>>> differently than you on some matters.
>>>>> Now, if that makes him what you say
>>>>> then, that makes you what I say.
>>>>
>>>> He is not a liberal loony for believing differently from me.  The
>>>> moniker
>>>> was offered because of his statement about how acknowledgement of our
>>>> Creator did not belong in schools.  He made an irrational statement,
>>>> assuming that CNN reported him accurately.  If he is a brother in
>>>> Christ,
>>>> then I expect to hear a retraction or clarification made soon as other
>>>> believers correct him.  If he is not a brother in Christ, then he will
>>>> continue to support the working of iniquity that seeks to remove the
>>>> acknowledgme

RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism









Ignorance of facts demonstrated here to
the max.  Public education WAS religious (Christian) education. I will do the
homework and post the truth if I have time before we go down with the TT ship!
iz

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 8:13
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism



 



Public education was first offered as an alternaive to Christian
education.  





 





jd





 





-- Original message -- 
From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



No, it is not 'strange'. In most cases 'creation science'
reflects neither.







- Original Message - 





From: David Miller 





To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 24, 2006
08:33





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Fw: Williams on Creationism





 





She should not teach them that the universe IS geocentric, but she
should teach them the geocentric model, evidence for and against it, and
its place in the history of science and religion.  Isn't it strange
how science has no problem doing this, but it does have a problem with creation
science being dealt with in the same way?





 





David Miller







- Original Message - 





From: Lance Muir






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: Friday, March 24,
2006 4:30 AM





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Fw: Williams on Creationism





 





You may feel to teach them that the universe is geocentric
if you like. 







- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 23, 2006
23:23





Subject: RE: [TruthTalk]
Fw: Williams on Creationism





 



I’m so thankful that my 4
grandchildren are being homeschooled so they can be taught the Truth! Lance and
jd; should it be illegal for them to be taught about Creationism at home? If
not, why should it be illegal for them to be taught anywhere else? Do you have
any idea about the Christian roots of our public education system (before the
lefties took over?) izzy

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Kevin Deegan
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006
5:39 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism



 



WE DON'T NEED TO BE IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM IF WE ARE
DOING OUR JOB  





 





Our Job is NOT the school system or Politics, render unto Cesear





 





Unless of course you are swayed by the Reconstructionists.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:







What in the hell do you think I have been talking about?  
You are so far off course here, as to be just plain silly.  I am not a
"big banger" nor do I believe that a lung fish is ancient
family.   In fact,  I am with the growing opinion that there has
not been enough time for evolution to have worked  it's wonders. That
doesn't mean evolution at some level does not exist.   But, now, it
is I who digresses.





 





My point?   If the church had not surrendered its college
age young people to the Unisersity system,   we would not need
this discussion.   The church is not in the High School and our
senior class has yet to convert to atheistic evolutionism...proving that WE
DON'T NEED TO BE IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM IF WE ARE DOING OUR JOB  --  AS
A CHURCH OF CHRIST IN MINISTRY TO THE WORLD  ---   and I
am not just talking about "preaching to the lost."   
Christ actually spent very little of His time preaching.   Most
of His day was spent in the offering of benevolent blessings to
others.  





 





jd 





 





-- Original message -- 
From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



Why advocate teaching what you don't
know JD?  As has already been noted "Only when we prove





evolution do we need to concern
ourselves with "harmonizing" evolutionism with theism.  Evidence
that





this level of proof has not been
achieved includes the long list of scientists and others who have abandoned





Darwinism because they became convinced
that the scientific evidence DOES NOT support it.  So why





would you want to warp young minds with
useless information that is not proven?   judyt





[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 









I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school
systems and you are talking about religious people!!!   Amazing





 





Maybe we should install a different creationist version for every major
school system      I am sure we can
find enough fundy ideas to go around.  That way , you would have to
worry about consensus and no one will have the slightest idea what to
believe.  but you and Kev will be happy.  CONSENSUS BE
DAMNED.   KNOW THE TRUTH AND IT SHALL MAKE YOU FREE !!  jd





 





 





 





From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism









And you accused Kevin of making
smart-assed replies???

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 7:51
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism



 



Who wouldn't be convinced when one employes
terms/expressions  such as 'testable by empirical means', 'model of
creation..less than 10,000 years old' , 'a prediction that is testable
scientifically?' and 'empirical clocks to test this prediction?'  Now, why
don't you take this on the road?







- Original Message - 





From: David Miller 





To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 24, 2006
08:36





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Fw: Williams on Creationism





 





Correct, and some of this activity proposes empirical predictions that
are testable by empirical means.  For example, if a model of creation says
that the earth is less than 10,000 years old, isn't that a prediction that is
testable scientifically?  Don't we have empirical clocks to test this
prediction?





 





David Miller







- Original Message - 





From: Lance Muir






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: Friday, March 24,
2006 4:44 AM





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Fw: Williams on Creationism





 





Interpretation/interpolation/speculation re:Genesis leads one to that
which one has just witnessed over the last week or so.





 





- Original Message - 







From: David Miller 





To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 23, 2006
17:01





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Fw: Williams on Creationism





 





I don't know why you are getting so emotional over this.





 





I think that when God spoke, in many situations, it took some time for
what he said to take place.  For example, if he spoke for the land masses
to divide from the water, it took less than a minute to say it, but hours for
the land and water to do what he said.  He also may have been
involved in other ways that we don't understand right now.  Do you see it
differently?  It does not have anything to do with resting for the next
day.





 





David Miller







- Original Message - 





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 





Sent: Thursday, March
23, 2006 4:36 PM





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Fw: Williams on Creationism





 





David !!   Honestly, this is one of the sorriest posts you
have ever written.  First, an atheist mocks God and I am no atheist. 





 





Secondly, the reason you are confused with what I said (144 hours of
time to speak the words of creation that took only 26 seconds to actually
speak) is rather simple  --  you have somehow lost the context of my
statement.  My comments go the the notion that "day" is not a 24
hour period.    To say that it is metaphorical
does not  mean that God did not create  the world and even in
the sequence depicted  --  at least not to me.   Such an
admission , on my part, does not mean that I believe the Genesis account to be
"scientific" as we understand that term , today.  
Look  --  do you really believe that God worked so hard in His
creation activity that he needed a 24 hour period of time to rest up
!!!??   And "rest up " for what?   Com'on David,
this is impossible.   





 





jd





 





-- Original message -- 
From: "David Miller"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



Are you mocking the concept that God created the world through faith
and speaking?  What does how long it takes for him to speak words have to
do with how long it took for the world to come into being?  I don't
understand your point.





 





David Miller







- Original Message - 





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 





Sent: Wednesday, March
22, 2006 5:29 PM





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Fw: Williams on Creationism





 





So which fundamentalist version  of creation do you support. 
That A & E were spirit people.   A 6000 year date or a 10,000 or
an "unknown" e.t.  ?   The version that says it took
God 144 hours to speak words that can be   spoken in 24 seconds
!!!   I just did it in 24 big ones  !!   including a
drink of water because my mouth was getting dry.  





 





Consensus has NOTHING to do with !!   Rad Fundies cannot
agree on much of anything.   Which version goes into the school
system ???  We are still waiting??





 





jd





 





-- Original message -- 
From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



Don't you get it JT?





TRUTH is found in CONSENSUS!





The opinions of Men are the key.

Judy Taylor
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:







So?





There isn't a single fiew of the whole
church that is agreed upon





by the whole church either.  What
does that prove?    judyt





 





On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:







Perhaps the Bishop has the s

RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism









Depending, certainly, upon who stated it. 
iz

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 6:43
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams
on Creationism



 



Less is more. 







- Original Message - 





From: Kevin
Deegan 





To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 24, 2006
07:36





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Fw: Williams on Creationism





 





When was the last time on TT you posted more than two sentences?





When was at least one of the sentences about those combat boots?





Posts of web pages excepted.

Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:







Oh ya? (see how content-filled that is?)







- Original Message - 





From: Kevin
Deegan 





To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 24, 2006
07:06





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Fw: Williams on Creationism





 



But you are inclined to making baseless assertions.

Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote: 



Oh but I do, Kevin. However, I'm not inclined toward
'darkening the corner where you are'.







- Original Message - 





From: Kevin
Deegan 





To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 24, 2006
06:29





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Fw: Williams on Creationism





 



If you do not KNOW what it is how can you make a value judgement on it?

Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote: 



Whatever 'YOUR JOB' is Kevin, y'all ain't bin doin' it all
that well AT TT!







- Original Message - 





From: Kevin
Deegan 





To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 23, 2006
18:39





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Fw: Williams on Creationism





 





WE DON'T NEED TO BE IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM IF WE ARE
DOING OUR JOB  





 





Our Job is NOT the school system or Politics, render unto Cesear





 





Unless of course you are swayed by the Reconstructionists.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:







What in the hell do you think I have been talking about?  
You are so far off course here, as to be just plain silly.  I am not a
"big banger" nor do I believe that a lung fish is ancient
family.   In fact,  I am with the growing opinion that there has
not been enough time for evolution to have worked  it's wonders. That
doesn't mean evolution at some level does not exist.   But, now, it
is I who digresses.





 





My point?   If the church had not surrendered its college
age young people to the Unisersity system,   we would not need
this discussion.   The church is not in the High School and our
senior class has yet to convert to atheistic evolutionism...proving that WE
DON'T NEED TO BE IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM IF WE ARE DOING OUR JOB  --  AS
A CHURCH OF CHRIST IN MINISTRY TO THE WORLD  ---   and I
am not just talking about "preaching to the lost."   
Christ actually spent very little of His time preaching.   Most
of His day was spent in the offering of benevolent blessings to
others.  





 





jd 





 





-- Original message -- 
From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



Why advocate teaching what you don't
know JD?  As has already been noted "Only when we prove





evolution do we need to concern
ourselves with "harmonizing" evolutionism with theism.  Evidence
that





this level of proof has not been achieved
includes the long list of scientists and others who have abandoned





Darwinism because they became convinced
that the scientific evidence DOES NOT support it.  So why





would you want to warp young minds with
useless information that is not proven?   judyt





[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 









I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school
systems and you are talking about religious people!!!   Amazing





 





Maybe we should install a different creationist version for every major
school system   .   I am sure we can
find enough fundy ideas to go around.  That way , you would have to
worry about consensus and no one will have the slightest idea what to
believe.  but you and Kev will be happy.  CONSENSUS BE
DAMNED.   KNOW THE TRUTH AND IT SHALL MAKE YOU FREE !!  jd





 





 





 





From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



I surmised as much JD; my point being
that religious ppl have many





and varied points of view about anything
and everything and this is no





measure by which to gauge what is needful
or true.





 





On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:20:02 + [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:







Do you even know what this thread is about, Judy?   





WHICH VIEW OF CREATIONISM GETS INTO THE CIRRICULUM  --  
HUH  ???





 






From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



So?





There isn't a single view of the whole
church that is agreed upon





by the whole church either.  What
does that prove?    judyt





 





On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:







Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I do.   I know
this  --

RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism









And demonic beings encouraging one another
in their strategies. 

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:27
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism



 



A book truly perceptive re: human nature.







- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 23, 2006
23:12





Subject: RE: [TruthTalk]
Fw: Williams on Creationism





 



Why is this so hauntingly reminiscent of
communication between Screwtape and Wormwood? iz

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006
3:40 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism



 



You have risen to new heights, soon to be appointed
ARCHbishop, John.







- Original Message - 





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 





Sent: March 23, 2006
16:36





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Fw: Williams on Creationism





 





David !!   Honestly, this is one of the sorriest posts you
have ever written.  First, an atheist mocks God and I am no atheist. 





 





Secondly, the reason you are confused with what I said (144 hours of
time to speak the words of creation that took only 26 seconds to actually
speak) is rather simple  --  you have somehow lost the context of my
statement.  My comments go the the notion that "day" is not a 24
hour period.    To say that it is metaphorical
does not  mean that God did not create  the world and even in
the sequence depicted  --  at least not to me.   Such an
admission , on my part, does not mean that I believe the Genesis account to be "scientific"
as we understand that term , today.   Look  --  do you
really believe that God worked so hard in His creation activity that he needed
a 24 hour period of time to rest up !!!??   And "rest up "
for what?   Com'on David, this is impossible.   





 





jd





 





-- Original message -- 
From: "David Miller"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



Are you mocking the concept that God created the world through faith
and speaking?  What does how long it takes for him to speak words have to
do with how long it took for the world to come into being?  I don't
understand your point.





 





David Miller







- Original Message - 





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 





Sent: Wednesday, March
22, 2006 5:29 PM





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Fw: Williams on Creationism





 





So which fundamentalist version  of creation do you support. 
That A & E were spirit people.   A 6000 year date or a 10,000 or
an "unknown" e.t.  ?   The version that says it took
God 144 hours to speak words that can be   spoken in 24 seconds
!!!   I just did it in 24 big ones  !!   including a
drink of water because my mouth was getting dry.  





 





Consensus has NOTHING to do with !!   Rad Fundies cannot
agree on much of anything.   Which version goes into the school
system ???  We are still waiting??





 





jd





 





-- Original message -- 
From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



Don't you get it JT?





TRUTH is found in CONSENSUS!





The opinions of Men are the key.

Judy Taylor
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:







So?





There isn't a single fiew of the whole
church that is agreed upon





by the whole church either.  What
does that prove?    judyt





 





On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:







Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I do.   I know
this  --  





there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed upon by the
whole church.   





 





jd





 





 





 





-- Original message -- 
From: "David Miller"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



John wrote:





> The world in which we live would reject 





> any mention of God in the evolutionary process,  





> IMO.   But  creationism in the schools?  
Could 





> that not be considered the beginnings of a fanatical 





> fundamentalist take-over of the culture? 





ROTFLOL.  I sure hope you were being facetious on purpose.





 





John wrote:





> But to allow a mere  statement that suggests God 





> is somehow in control as the Creator(?)   If this 





> could be presented into the secular system of 





> education without it being coopted by the fundies  





> --  go for it.   But I doubt that it can. 
What a shame 





> that radical fundamentalism within Christiandom forces 





> the Body to dismiss a perfectly wonderful opportunity 





> to introduce the Creator to others.  





In case you did not notic

RE: [TruthTalk] on Creationism









And yet you object to such truth being
taught to children; favoring something else instead.  Pathetic.  iz

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:28
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on
Creationism



 



It does.







- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 23, 2006
23:14





Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] on
Creationism





 



It is also absurd that someone who claims
to believe that all truth comes from God would not consider that all true
science does the same.  izzy

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Miller
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006
3:46 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on
Creationism



 



Supply all the names of real scientists that you like, Lance.  It
does not change the facts about the position of the scientific
establishment.  I'm talking about organizations like the National
Academy of Sciences.  They make a big legal case concerning
how creation science is religion and therefore it is ILLEGAL to teach it
in public schools.  Any mention of a Creator makes it RELIGION instead of
SCIENCE.  Their position is that science and religion occupy two
separate realms of human experience.  They accept the fact that many
scientists are deeply religious, but they insist that the two cannot be
combined.  Therefore, any mention of a Creator in science is
forbidden.  





 





I reject the notion that science and religion do not overlap.





 





By the way, the NAS also makes big mention of how most religious
groups have concluded that evolution is not at odds with their descriptions of
creation and human origins.  In other words, the scientific
establishment loves guys like R. Williams who help them keep the
acknowledgement of God out of the classroom.





 





David Miller





 







- Original Message - 





From: Lance Muir






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: Thursday, March
23, 2006 2:30 PM





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on
Creationism





 





David says that 'the scientific establishment has...'. Look,
David, if the generalization works for you then, OK! I already told you that
I'd supply the names of real, as opposed to pretend, scientists, who are
themselves believers (I supplied a couple of names) who hold to a variety of positions
on this matter. 







- Original Message - 





From: David Miller 





To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 23, 2006
14:20





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on
Creationism





 





I really do not understand how it is that you think Fundies have
destroyed any opportunity for creationism in schools.  The problem is that
the scientific establishment has taken the position that any mention of a
Creator departs from science.  Lance's position of theistic evolution is
flatly rejected by science.  So the Fundies are not hindering creationism
in schools.  Scientists are.  Are you really blind to this fact?





 





David Miller





 







- Original Message - 





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 





Sent: Thursday, March
23, 2006 10:06 AM





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on
Creationism





 





With much debate, the Fundies destroy any opportunity to place "creationism"
into the school programs for the reason stated below.  Amen.  





 





And, again,  a foot in the door would only allow the warring
hordes  (Rad Fundies) to swarm our educational institutions and run helter
skelter  --  yelling and screaming at each other while, at the very
same time,  claiming victory for the Right Side.    
Scary.  





 





jd





 





-- Original message -- 
From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



There are as many 'species' of creationists as fish. Put a
million of 'em at the keyboards of computers and they'd come up
with.well...what they've already come up with. I rest my case your
honor. 







- Original Message - 





From: Judy Taylor






To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 23, 2006
06:44





Subject: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism





 





Why advocate teaching what you don't
know JD?  As has already been noted "Only when we prove





evolution do we need to concern
ourselves with "harmonizing" evolutionism with theism.  Evidence
that





this level of proof has not been
achieved includes the long list of scientists and others who have abandoned





Darwinism because they became convinced
that the scientific evidence DOES NOT support it.  So why





would you want to warp young minds with
useless information that is not proven?   judyt





[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 









I'm talking about fun

RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism









Fortunately we comprehend the truth since
we believe God’s Word. 

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:30
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism



 



You may feel to teach them that the universe is geocentric
if you like. 







- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 23, 2006
23:23





Subject: RE: [TruthTalk]
Fw: Williams on Creationism





 



I’m so thankful that my 4
grandchildren are being homeschooled so they can be taught the Truth! Lance and
jd; should it be illegal for them to be taught about Creationism at home? If
not, why should it be illegal for them to be taught anywhere else? Do you have
any idea about the Christian roots of our public education system (before the
lefties took over?) izzy

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006
5:39 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams
on Creationism



 



WE DON'T NEED TO BE IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM IF WE ARE
DOING OUR JOB  





 





Our Job is NOT the school system or Politics, render unto Cesear





 





Unless of course you are swayed by the Reconstructionists.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:







What in the hell do you think I have been talking about?  
You are so far off course here, as to be just plain silly.  I am not a
"big banger" nor do I believe that a lung fish is ancient
family.   In fact,  I am with the growing opinion that there has
not been enough time for evolution to have worked  it's wonders. That
doesn't mean evolution at some level does not exist.   But, now, it
is I who digresses.





 





My point?   If the church had not surrendered its college
age young people to the Unisersity system,   we would not need
this discussion.   The church is not in the High School and our
senior class has yet to convert to atheistic evolutionism...proving that WE
DON'T NEED TO BE IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM IF WE ARE DOING OUR JOB  --  AS
A CHURCH OF CHRIST IN MINISTRY TO THE WORLD  ---   and I
am not just talking about "preaching to the lost."   
Christ actually spent very little of His time preaching.   Most
of His day was spent in the offering of benevolent blessings to
others.  





 





jd 





 





-- Original message -- 
From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



Why advocate teaching what you don't
know JD?  As has already been noted "Only when we prove





evolution do we need to concern
ourselves with "harmonizing" evolutionism with theism.  Evidence
that





this level of proof has not been
achieved includes the long list of scientists and others who have abandoned





Darwinism because they became convinced
that the scientific evidence DOES NOT support it.  So why





would you want to warp young minds with
useless information that is not proven?   judyt





[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 









I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school
systems and you are talking about religious people!!!   Amazing





 





Maybe we should install a different creationist version for every major
school system      I am sure we can
find enough fundy ideas to go around.  That way , you would have to
worry about consensus and no one will have the slightest idea what to
believe.  but you and Kev will be happy.  CONSENSUS BE
DAMNED.   KNOW THE TRUTH AND IT SHALL MAKE YOU FREE !!  jd





 





 





 





From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



I surmised as much JD; my point being
that religious ppl have many





and varied points of view about anything
and everything and this is no





measure by which to gauge what is
needful or true.





 





On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:20:02 + [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:







Do you even know what this thread is about, Judy?   





WHICH VIEW OF CREATIONISM GETS INTO THE CIRRICULUM  --  
HUH  ???





 






From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



So?





There isn't a single view of the whole
church that is agreed upon





by the whole church either.  What
does that prove?    judyt





 





On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:







Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I do.   I know
this  --  





there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed upon by the
whole church.   





 





jd





 





 





 





-- Original message -- 
From: "David Miller"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



John wrote:





> The world in which we live would reject 





> any mention of God in the evolutionary process,  





> IMO.   But  creationism in the schools?  
Could 





> that not be considered the beginnings of a f

RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

So you prefer that untruth be taught in schools.  That's all that's left.
Pathetic IMO.  izzy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:25 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

Still no.


- Original Message - 
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: March 23, 2006 23:04
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism


> If you thought it was true would you want it taught in schools, Lance? JD?
> izzy
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 3:32 PM
> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
>
> David:Is that all you were meaning to say concerning RW? If that's it 
> then,
> I'm with RW on this one. I don't think it should be taught in schools
> either.
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: March 23, 2006 15:04
> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
>
>
>> The CNN report:  Asked if creationism should be taught in schools,
>> Williams
>> said: "I don't think it should, actually. No, no."
>>
>> So how have I mischaracterized him?
>>
>> David Miller
>>
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: 
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 10:41 AM
>> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
>>
>>
>> David:YIKES!! You mischaracterize both Williams and his position. DOUBLE
>> YIKES!! I know that you will continue to do so. You are truly trapped,
>> David. You've bound yourself with your own theology (not, as you believe,
>> Scripture). Your teachers will one day answer for what they've done to 
>> you
>> and, what you now do to others.Yikes! Yikes! Yikes (that'd be triple
>> yikes)
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: 
>> Sent: March 22, 2006 10:25
>> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
>>
>>
>>> Lance wrote:
>>>> If Williams is a 'liberal loonie' then
>>>> you are a 'sectarian loonie' , David.
>>>
>>> I'm sectarian only in the sense that the holy and the profane ought to 
>>> be
>>> separate.  I am not sectarian within the group of those who have
>>> submitted
>>> unto Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.
>>>
>>> Lance wrote:
>>>> He is a brother in Christ who believes
>>>> differently than you on some matters.
>>>> Now, if that makes him what you say
>>>> then, that makes you what I say.
>>>
>>> He is not a liberal loony for believing differently from me.  The 
>>> moniker
>>> was offered because of his statement about how acknowledgement of our
>>> Creator did not belong in schools.  He made an irrational statement,
>>> assuming that CNN reported him accurately.  If he is a brother in 
>>> Christ,
>>> then I expect to hear a retraction or clarification made soon as other
>>> believers correct him.  If he is not a brother in Christ, then he will
>>> continue to support the working of iniquity that seeks to remove the
>>> acknowledgment of God our Creator from the schools.  What he said was
>>> very
>>> damaging to our society, to believers who want to acknowledge God the
>>> Creator in their study of origins.  To think that science and the
>>> acknowledgement of God are incompatible is expected from scientists but
>>> not
>>> from theologians, and certainly not from the Right Reverend Doctor
>>> Rowland
>>> Williams, Archbishop of Canterbury.
>>>
>>> David Miller
>>>
>>> --
>>> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
>>> know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6)
>>> http://www.InnGlory.org
>>>
>>> If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
>>> friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> "Let your speech be always with grace, s

RE: [TruthTalk] Parting Wishes









I can’t wait to see what mighty
things you will accomplish for God’s Kingdom in your adulthood,
Christine! Hugs and kisses!!! Linda

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Christine Miller
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006
11:47 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: [TruthTalk] Parting
Wishes



 

You have all blessed me on
this forum. Discussing new ideas and analyzing scripture with you all has been
so edifying, and I believe that God will continue to use what has transpired
here. 

Thank you for encouraging and challenging me, and for opening yourselves up to
me. It's been an adventure. 

Isaiah 26:3
Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he
trusteth in thee.

I pray that perfect peace upon you all.

Love,

Christine







Yahoo!
Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.

RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism









No, I wish I could be with them every day
to do that, but I only get to teach them when I visit them out of state.  The
girls have been reading since they were four years old and are SO smart!!! (I’m
not biased, either! J )  Since age 6 you could
ask Gretchen to read any book, chapter and verse in the Bible, and she would
pick it up, find the place, and happily read it to you without a problem.  They
are taught mostly by their mom and some by their dad. Their mother got a master’s
degree in education with the intent of becoming a homeschooling Mom.  My (younger
or two grown-up kids) son has his master’s in aeronautical engineering
with a minor in German, and now flies for Fed-Ex and teaches pilot training one
week/month in the Reserves.  They can teach anything a school aged child might
need to learn I think. izzy

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006
11:04 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism



 



Are  you the teacher?





 





-- Original message -- 
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


I’m so thankful that my 4
grandchildren are being homeschooled so they can be taught the Truth! Lance and
jd; should it be illegal for them to be taught about Creationism at home? If
not, why should it be illegal for them to be taught anywhere else? Do you have
any idea about the Christian roots of our public education system (before the
lefties took over?) izzy

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006
5:39 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism



 



WE DON'T NEED TO BE IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM IF WE ARE
DOING OUR JOB  





 





Our Job is NOT the school system or Politics, render unto Cesear





 





Unless of course you are swayed by the Reconstructionists.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:







What in the hell do you think I have been talking about?  
You are so far off course here, as to be just plain silly.  I am not a
"big banger" nor do I believe that a lung fish is ancient family.  
In fact,  I am with the growing opinion that there has not been enough
time for evolution to have worked  it's wonders. That doesn't mean
evolution at some level does not exist.   But, now, it is I who
digresses.





 





My point?   If the church had not surrendered its college
age young people to the Unisersity system,   we would not need
this discussion.   The church is not in the High School and our
senior class has yet to convert to atheistic evolutionism...proving that WE
DON'T NEED TO BE IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM IF WE ARE DOING OUR JOB  --  AS
A CHURCH OF CHRIST IN MINISTRY TO THE WORLD  ---   and I
am not just talking about "preaching to the lost."   
Christ actually spent very little of His time preaching.   Most
of His day was spent in the offering of benevolent blessings to
others.  





 





jd 





 





-- Original message -- 
From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



Why advocate teaching what you don't
know JD?  As has already been noted "Only when we prove





evolution do we need to concern
ourselves with "harmonizing" evolutionism with theism.  Evidence
that





this level of proof has not been
achieved includes the long list of scientists and others who have abandoned





Darwinism because they became convinced
that the scientific evidence DOES NOT support it.  So why





would you want to warp young minds with
useless information that is not proven?   judyt





[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 









I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school
systems and you are talking about religious people!!!   Amazing





 





Maybe we should install a different creationist version for every major
school system      I am sure we can
find enough fundy ideas to go around.  That way , you would have to worry about
consensus and no one will have the slightest idea what to believe.  but
you and Kev will be happy.  CONSENSUS BE DAMNED.   KNOW THE
TRUTH AND IT SHALL MAKE YOU FREE !!  jd





 





 





 





From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



I surmised as much JD; my point being
that religious ppl have many





and varied points of view about anything
and everything and this is no





measure by which to gauge what is
needful or true.





 





On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:20:02 + [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:







Do you even know what this thread is about, Judy?   





WHICH VIEW OF CREATIONISM GETS INTO THE CIRRICULUM  --  
HUH  ???





 






From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



So?





There isn't a single view of the whole
church that is agreed upon





by the whole church either.

RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism









Jd, I remember when my oldest son told me
(when he was in college) that he was no longer a Believer.   I calmly told him
that he was going through a good and necessary stage of life in which he was
rejecting what he had been taught as a child so that he could re-evaluate
everything for himself. I assured him that when he had completed this task that
he would find that what he had been taught about his faith as a child would not
only prove to be true, but would be his very own, internalized belief.  He is
now a Christian, although he does not usually attend church although his wife
usually does.  He is more of a solitary person, like his father.  I would
appreciate prayers for his growth in the area of fellowship. He is as fine a
young man as ever I have met. I have learned much from him over the years, and thoroughly
enjoy every moment I get to spend with him. izzy

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006
11:01 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism



 



What do I believe about Genesis?   Did you read any of my
posts?   





 





Science has no answers to our confusion, our bondage, our need for
community and   an   innate longing   
 to live beyond what we see.  As soon as we turn Genesis into a
statement of science,  we lessen its value to the human
spirit.   





 





What do I get from reading those first three chapters?   That
God is in control  --  not that He is SOMEHOW in control 
-  but that He is IN FACT in control.   He is my
creator.   I am in His image.   And even when I fall, He
continues to hover over and round me.   It tells me that I was
created for others  --  my wife, my children and the world in which I
live.   It tells me I am responsible for much of my
actions.   Work is a curse because I must be responsible
!!   I and my wife are one
because  God   thought this to be the case from the
beginning.   and REST   has as much
a place in the coming and goings of man as work.   That's what I get
out of this Genesis account.  While some of you only see a
debate    





 





Do you know the best way of dealing with a child  - in my case an
older son  -- who comes home announcing that he no longer believes in the
bible??!!  IGNORE that comment and continue to be a witness , using, at
times, the very book that he rejects.  DO NOT, repeat, DO NOT challenge
him/her to a debate.  You will not win, if your version of :winning"
is to bring that child to say "Iwas wrong, Dad, and you were right again."  
He won't do it.   But if you ignore the challenge,  and give
biblical presentations that make sense to the way he is living his life 
--  the objection vanishes into thin air.  Theory?  
Nope.   It worked on both of my older boys  -  the lawyer
and the doctor.   But I digress with some free advice.  





 





The long and short of the lesson is this  --  make the Bible
THE battle ground and you will lose the war  !!!    Present
the Bible as something that offers life in the Spirit of God in the Christ of
God and you have a winner.  





 





 





jd





 





 





jd 





 





-- Original message ------ 
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


My goodness, jd. What DO you believe about
Genesis??? iz

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006
3:36 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism



 



David !!   Honestly, this is one of the sorriest posts you
have ever written.  First, an atheist mocks God and I am no atheist. 





 





Secondly, the reason you are confused with what I said (144 hours of
time to speak the words of creation that took only 26 seconds to actually
speak) is rather simple  --  you have somehow lost the context of my
statement.  My comments go the the notion that "day" is not a 24
hour period.    To say that it is metaphorical
does not  mean that God did not create  the world and even in
the sequence depicted  --  at least not to me.   Such an
admission , on my part, does not mean that I believe the Genesis account to be
"scientific" as we understand that term , today.  
Look  --  do you really believe that God worked so hard in His
creation activity that he needed a 24 hour period of time to rest up
!!!??   And "rest up " for what?   Com'on David,
this is impossible.   





 





jd





 





-- Original message -- 
From: "David Miller"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



Are you mocking the concept that God created the world through faith
and speaking?  What does how long it takes for him to speak words have to
do with how long it took for the world to come into being?  I don't
under

RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism









You didn’t answer the question. 

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006
10:41 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism



 



Linda, I believe that de-evolution is a much stronger force than
evolution.  I believe that natural selection only works when a mutation
creates not only the change , itself, but a population with the same mutation
and a reproductive proclivity that prevents the unique from being absorbed BACK
into the general population.  Even an old earth
belief,  IMO,  does not present enough time for evolution
to have occurred at the levels claimed by its believers.   And theistic
evolution is only a form of creationism  --   God manipulating
growth and change via a process.   Micro - yes.   Macro -
no.  





 





I believe that the "eternity of God" is philosophically
preferable to the eternity of matter (in whatever form ) and motion (of
elementary particles).   While at Cal Davis, my two sons had to deal
with a radical and atheistic biology prof.    These were
some of the points I gave them.  They used them in class. They  
semed to work.   





 





Do I want creationism  forced into the curriculum of our
schools.   NO.   Who would teach it?  What brand of
creationism would be taught?   And how do you teach it without a
knowledge of and the use of the Bible? I mean  --
isn't that the point of creationism?   The BIBLE says this BUT
science says something else?   IMO, there simply is no way such a
concept could be implemented.   





 





jd





 





-- Original message -- 
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


> If you thought it was true would you want it taught in schools, Lance? JD?

> izzy 
> 
> -Original Message- 
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir 
> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 3:32 PM 
> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> 
> David:Is that all you were meaning to say concerning RW? If that's it
then, 
> I'm with RW on this one. I don't think it should be taught in schools 
> either. 
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "David Miller" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> To: 
> Sent: March 23, 2006 15:04 
> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creation ism 
> 
> 
> > The CNN report: Asked if creationism should be taught in schools, 
> > Williams 
> > said: "I don't think it should, actually. No, no." 
> > 
> > So how have I mischaracterized him? 
> > 
> > David Miller 
> > 
> > 
> > - Original Message - 
> > From: "Lance Muir" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > To: 
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 10:41 AM

> > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> > 
> > 
> > David:YIKES!! You mischaracterize both Williams and his position.
DOUBLE 
> > YIKES!! I know that you will continue to do so. You are truly
trapped, 
> > David. You've bound yourself with your own theology (not, as you
believe, 
> > Scripture). Your teachers will one day answer for what they've done
to you 
> > and, what you now do to others.Yikes! Yikes! Yikes (that'd be tri ple

> > yikes) 
> > - Original Message - 
> > From: "David Miller"

<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > To: 
> > Sent: March 22, 2006 10:25 
> > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism 
> > 
> > 
> >> Lance wrote: 
> >>> If Williams is a 'liberal loonie' then 
> >>> you are a 'sectarian loonie' , David. 
> >> 
> >> I'm sectarian only in the sense that the holy and the profane
ought to be 
> >> separate. I am not sectarian within the group of those who have 
> >> submitted 
> >> unto Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. 
> >> 
> >> Lance wrote: 
> >>> He is a brother in Christ who believes 
> >>> differently than you on some matters. 
> >>> Now, if that makes him what you say 
> >>> then, that makes you what I say. 
> >> 
&g t; >> He is not a liberal loony for believing differently from me.
The moniker 
> >> was offered because of his statement about how acknowledgement of
our 
> >> Creator did not belong in schools. He made an irrational
statement, 
> >> assuming that CNN reported him accurately. If he is a brother in
Christ, 
> >> then I expect to hear a retraction or clarification made soon as
other 
> >> believers corre

RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism









I’m so thankful that my 4
grandchildren are being homeschooled so they can be taught the Truth! Lance and
jd; should it be illegal for them to be taught about Creationism at home? If
not, why should it be illegal for them to be taught anywhere else? Do you have
any idea about the Christian roots of our public education system (before the
lefties took over?) izzy

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Kevin Deegan
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006
5:39 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism



 



WE DON'T NEED TO BE IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM IF WE ARE
DOING OUR JOB  





 





Our Job is NOT the school system or Politics, render unto Cesear





 





Unless of course you are swayed by the Reconstructionists.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:







What in the hell do you think I have been talking about?  
You are so far off course here, as to be just plain silly.  I am not a
"big banger" nor do I believe that a lung fish is ancient
family.   In fact,  I am with the growing opinion that there has
not been enough time for evolution to have worked  it's wonders. That
doesn't mean evolution at some level does not exist.   But, now, it
is I who digresses.





 





My point?   If the church had not surrendered its college
age young people to the Unisersity system,   we would not need
this discussion.   The church is not in the High School and our
senior class has yet to convert to atheistic evolutionism...proving that WE
DON'T NEED TO BE IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM IF WE ARE DOING OUR JOB  --  AS
A CHURCH OF CHRIST IN MINISTRY TO THE WORLD  ---   and I
am not just talking about "preaching to the lost."   
Christ actually spent very little of His time preaching.   Most
of His day was spent in the offering of benevolent blessings to others. 






 





jd 





 





-- Original message -- 
From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



Why advocate teaching what you don't
know JD?  As has already been noted "Only when we prove





evolution do we need to concern
ourselves with "harmonizing" evolutionism with theism.  Evidence
that





this level of proof has not been
achieved includes the long list of scientists and others who have abandoned





Darwinism because they became convinced
that the scientific evidence DOES NOT support it.  So why





would you want to warp young minds with
useless information that is not proven?   judyt





[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 









I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school
systems and you are talking about religious people!!!   Amazing





 





Maybe we should install a different creationist version for every major
school system      I am sure we can
find enough fundy ideas to go around.  That way , you would have to
worry about consensus and no one will have the slightest idea what to believe. 
but you and Kev will be happy.  CONSENSUS BE DAMNED.   KNOW THE
TRUTH AND IT SHALL MAKE YOU FREE !!  jd





 





 





 





From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



I surmised as much JD; my point being
that religious ppl have many





and varied points of view about anything
and everything and this is no





measure by which to gauge what is
needful or true.





 





On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:20:02 + [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:







Do you even know what this thread is about, Judy?   





WHICH VIEW OF CREATIONISM GETS INTO THE CIRRICULUM  --  
HUH  ???





 






From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



So?





There isn't a single view of the whole
church that is agreed upon





by the whole church either.  What
does that prove?    judyt





 





On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:







Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I do.   I know
this  --  





there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed upon by the
whole church.   





 





jd





 





 





 





-- Original message -- 
From: "David Miller"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



John wrote:





> The world in which we live would reject 





> any mention of God in the evolutionary process,  





> IMO.   But  creationism in the schools?  
Could 





> that not be considered the beginnings of a fanatical 





> fundamentalist take-over of the culture? 





ROTFLOL.  I sure hope you were being facetious on purpose.





 





John wrote:





> But to allow a mere  statement that suggests God 





> is somehow in control as the Creator(?)   If this 





> could be presented into the secular system of 





> education without it being coopted by the fundies  





> --  go for it.   But I doubt that it can. 
What a shame 





> that radical fundamentalism within Christiandom forces 





> the Body to dismiss a perfectly wonderful opportunity 





> to introduce the Creator to others.  





In case you did not notice, the fundamentalists are
not causing the acknowled

RE: [TruthTalk] on Creationism









I was once interviewed on Pat Robertson’s
TV program, and have a lot of respect for him.  But I do wonder why he says
something that is absolutely true and then apologizes for it later.  izzy

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David
 Miller
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006
3:55 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on
Creationism



 



I know many scientists who are Christians and hold to theistic
evolution.  That does not mean that they bring that view in when they
practice science.  They are not allowed and they will be the first to tell
you.





 





I don't see myself as a fundamentalist, but I'm not going to fight with
those who characterize me as such.





 





I like Pat Robertson.  He is not a dufus from my perspective.





 





I do not favor the idea of forcing the teaching of creation in
schools.  I am against the notion of forbidding teachers from dealing with
this subject matter.  I'm against the idea of it being illegal to
teach creation science in schools.  I have known many high
school teachers that would not have the problem that you outline below.





 





David Miller







- Original Message - 





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 





Sent: Thursday, March
23, 2006 4:20 PM





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on
Creationism





 





Daivd,   I have several books on my shelves written by Christian
scientists proclaiming some version of theistic evolution. 





 





Secondly,   you and are both members of the
fundamentalist community.   If you have missed the M.O. of any number
of our brethren,  I haven't.     





 





Look at Pat Robertson.  A Dufus of major proportions.  
He has his foot in his mouth so often  they now measure  that cavity
in terms of shoe size !!





 





The cause of Christ would become   even more difficult
if we allowed this to happen.      At least  the way
it is now,  we (the Christian community) can somewhat hide these guys from
society.   The KKK was made up of mostly Christian  
claiming people.   





 





Can you imagine?   "OK, students,  we have
just completed  our study on evolution from a scientific point of
view.   Now , we enter into the Christian notion of creation 
--   or should I say the several versions of same !!  (and the
teacher smiles.)  We only had space in the text book for five such
theories.  I personally do not believe any of them  --  and I
need to make  that clear to you before "they" pass some law that
says I cannot influence your thinking with such a statement  --  but
I will do the best I can.   Before I begin,  how many of
you care about any of this  ...   show of hands,
please  .  I said "show of  
"  . oh, I get get it.   Well , we have to
consider each of these accounts of creation, anyway,   and there will
be a test.  I must say, it seems a bit odd for me.  I mean,  I
wil l be making a presentation of a biblical nature,  but , of
course,  we are not permitted to present from the Bible  --  so
I really do not know why this is not being done in church  ..  
but here goes 
..."





 





 





jd





 





 





 





-- Original message -- 
From: "David Miller"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



I really do not understand how it is that you think Fundies have
destroyed any opportunity for creationism in schools.  The problem is that
the scientific establishment has taken the position that any mention of a
Creator departs from science.  Lance's position of theistic evolution is
flatly rejected by science.  So the Fundies are not hindering creationism
in schools.  Scientists are.  Are you really blind to this fact?





 





David Miller





 







- Original Message - 





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 





Sent: Thursday, March
23, 2006 10:06 AM





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on
Creationism





 





With much debate, the Fundies destroy any opportunity to place "creationism"
into the school programs for the reason stated below.  Amen.  





 





And, again,  a foot in the door would only allow the warring
hordes  (Rad Fundies) to swarm our educational institutions and run helter
skelter  --  yelling and screaming at each other while, at the very
same time,  claiming victory for the Right Side.    
Scary.  





 





jd





 





-- Original message -- 
From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



There are as many 'species' of creationists as fish. Put a
million of 'em at the keyboards of computers and they'd come up
with.well...what they've already come up with. I rest my case your
honor. 







- Original Message - 





From: Judy Taylor






To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 23, 2006
06:44





Subject: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Will

RE: [TruthTalk] on Creationism









It is also absurd that someone who claims
to believe that all truth comes from God would not consider that all true
science does the same.  izzy

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David
 Miller
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006
3:46 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on
Creationism



 



Supply all the names of real scientists that you like, Lance.  It
does not change the facts about the position of the scientific
establishment.  I'm talking about organizations like the National
Academy of Sciences.  They make a big legal case concerning
how creation science is religion and therefore it is ILLEGAL to teach it
in public schools.  Any mention of a Creator makes it RELIGION instead of
SCIENCE.  Their position is that science and religion occupy two
separate realms of human experience.  They accept the fact that many
scientists are deeply religious, but they insist that the two cannot be
combined.  Therefore, any mention of a Creator in science is
forbidden.  





 





I reject the notion that science and religion do not overlap.





 





By the way, the NAS also makes big mention of how most religious
groups have concluded that evolution is not at odds with their descriptions of
creation and human origins.  In other words, the scientific
establishment loves guys like R. Williams who help them keep the
acknowledgement of God out of the classroom.





 





David Miller





 







- Original Message - 





From: Lance Muir






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: Thursday, March
23, 2006 2:30 PM





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on
Creationism





 





David says that 'the scientific establishment has...'. Look,
David, if the generalization works for you then, OK! I already told you that
I'd supply the names of real, as opposed to pretend, scientists, who are
themselves believers (I supplied a couple of names) who hold to a variety of
positions on this matter. 







- Original Message - 





From: David Miller 





To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 23, 2006
14:20





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on
Creationism





 





I really do not understand how it is that you think Fundies have
destroyed any opportunity for creationism in schools.  The problem is that
the scientific establishment has taken the position that any mention of a
Creator departs from science.  Lance's position of theistic evolution is
flatly rejected by science.  So the Fundies are not hindering creationism
in schools.  Scientists are.  Are you really blind to this fact?





 





David Miller





 







- Original Message - 





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 





Sent: Thursday, March
23, 2006 10:06 AM





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on
Creationism





 





With much debate, the Fundies destroy any opportunity to place
"creationism" into the school programs for the reason stated
below.  Amen.  





 





And, again,  a foot in the door would only allow the warring
hordes  (Rad Fundies) to swarm our educational institutions and run helter
skelter  --  yelling and screaming at each other while, at the very
same time,  claiming victory for the Right Side.    
Scary.  





 





jd





 





-- Original message -- 
From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



There are as many 'species' of creationists as fish. Put a
million of 'em at the keyboards of computers and they'd come up
with.well...what they've already come up with. I rest my case your
honor. 







- Original Message - 





From: Judy Taylor






To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 23, 2006
06:44





Subject: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism





 





Why advocate teaching what you don't
know JD?  As has already been noted "Only when we prove





evolution do we need to concern
ourselves with "harmonizing" evolutionism with theism.  Evidence
that





this level of proof has not been
achieved includes the long list of scientists and others who have abandoned





Darwinism because they became convinced
that the scientific evidence DOES NOT support it.  So why





would you want to warp young minds with
useless information that is not proven?   judyt





[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 









I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school
systems and you are talking about religious people!!!   Amazing





 





Maybe we should install a different creationist version for every major
school system      I am sure we can
find enough fundy ideas to go around.  That way , you would have to
worry about consensus and no one will have the slightest idea what to
believe.  but you and Kev will be happy.  CONSENSUS BE
DAMNED.   KNOW THE TRUTH AND IT SHALL MAKE YOU FREE !!  jd





 





 





 





From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



I surmised as much JD; my point being
that religious ppl h

RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism









Why is this so hauntingly reminiscent of
communication between Screwtape and Wormwood? iz

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006
3:40 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism



 



You have risen to new heights, soon to be appointed
ARCHbishop, John.







- Original Message - 





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 





Sent: March 23, 2006
16:36





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Fw: Williams on Creationism





 





David !!   Honestly, this is one of the sorriest posts you
have ever written.  First, an atheist mocks God and I am no atheist. 





 





Secondly, the reason you are confused with what I said (144 hours of
time to speak the words of creation that took only 26 seconds to actually
speak) is rather simple  --  you have somehow lost the context of my
statement.  My comments go the the notion that "day" is not a 24
hour period.    To say that it is metaphorical
does not  mean that God did not create  the world and even in
the sequence depicted  --  at least not to me.   Such an
admission , on my part, does not mean that I believe the Genesis account to be
"scientific" as we understand that term , today.  
Look  --  do you really believe that God worked so hard in His
creation activity that he needed a 24 hour period of time to rest up
!!!??   And "rest up " for what?   Com'on David,
this is impossible.   





 





jd





 





-- Original message -- 
From: "David Miller"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



Are you mocking the concept that God created the world through faith
and speaking?  What does how long it takes for him to speak words have to
do with how long it took for the world to come into being?  I don't
understand your point.





 





David Miller







- Original Message - 





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 





Sent: Wednesday, March
22, 2006 5:29 PM





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Fw: Williams on Creationism





 





So which fundamentalist version  of creation do you support. 
That A & E were spirit people.   A 6000 year date or a 10,000 or
an "unknown" e.t.  ?   The version that says it took
God 144 hours to speak words that can be   spoken in 24 seconds
!!!   I just did it in 24 big ones  !!   including a
drink of water because my mouth was getting dry.  





 





Consensus has NOTHING to do with !!   Rad Fundies cannot
agree on much of anything.   Which version goes into the school
system ???  We are still waiting??





 





jd





 





-- Original message -- 
From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



Don't you get it JT?





TRUTH is found in CONSENSUS!





The opinions of Men are the key.

Judy Taylor
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:







So?





There isn't a single fiew of the whole
church that is agreed upon





by the whole church either.  What
does that prove?    judyt





 





On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:







Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I do.   I know
this  --  





there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed upon by the
whole church.   





 





jd





 





 





 





-- Original message -- 
From: "David Miller"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



John wrote:





> The world in which we live would reject 





> any mention of God in the evolutionary process,  





> IMO.   But  creationism in the schools?  
Could 





> that not be considered the beginnings of a fanatical 





> fundamentalist take-over of the culture? 





ROTFLOL.  I sure hope you were being facetious on purpose.





 





John wrote:





> But to allow a mere  statement that suggests God 





> is somehow in control as the Creator(?)   If this 





> could be presented into the secular system of 





> education without it being coopted by the fundies  





> --  go for it.   But I doubt that it can. 
What a shame 





> that radical fundamentalism within Christiandom forces 





> the Body to dismiss a perfectly wonderful opportunity 





> to introduce the Creator to others.  





In case you did not notice, the fundamentalists are
not causing the acknowledgement of our Creator to be forbidden
in schools.  It is the liberal loonies like this Archbishop of
Canterbury who are doing this.





 





David Miller





 







 







 







Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make
PC-to-Phone Calls to the US
(and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism









My goodness, jd.  What DO you believe
about Genesis??? iz

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006
3:36 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism



 



David !!   Honestly, this is one of the sorriest posts you
have ever written.  First, an atheist mocks God and I am no atheist. 





 





Secondly, the reason you are confused with what I said (144 hours of
time to speak the words of creation that took only 26 seconds to actually
speak) is rather simple  --  you have somehow lost the context of my
statement.  My comments go the the notion that "day" is not a 24
hour period.    To say that it is metaphorical
does not  mean that God did not create  the world and even in
the sequence depicted  --  at least not to me.   Such an
admission , on my part, does not mean that I believe the Genesis account to be
"scientific" as we understand that term , today.  
Look  --  do you really believe that God worked so hard in His
creation activity that he needed a 24 hour period of time to rest up
!!!??   And "rest up " for what?   Com'on David,
this is impossible.   





 





jd





 





-- Original message -- 
From: "David Miller"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



Are you mocking the concept that God created the world through faith
and speaking?  What does how long it takes for him to speak words have to
do with how long it took for the world to come into being?  I don't
understand your point.





 





David Miller







- Original Message - 





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 





Sent: Wednesday, March
22, 2006 5:29 PM





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Fw: Williams on Creationism





 





So which fundamentalist version  of creation do you support. 
That A & E were spirit people.   A 6000 year date or a 10,000 or
an "unknown" e.t.  ?   The version that says it took
God 144 hours to speak words that can be   spoken in 24 seconds
!!!   I just did it in 24 big ones  !!   including a
drink of water because my mouth was getting dry.  





 





Consensus has NOTHING to do with !!   Rad Fundies cannot
agree on much of anything.   Which version goes into the school
system ???  We are still waiting??





 





jd





 





-- Original message -- 
From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



Don't you get it JT?





TRUTH is found in CONSENSUS!





The opinions of Men are the key.

Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:







So?





There isn't a single fiew of the whole
church that is agreed upon





by the whole church either.  What
does that prove?    judyt





 





On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:







Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I do.   I know
this  --  





there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed upon by the
whole church.   





 





jd





 





 





 





-- Original message -- 
From: "David Miller"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



John wrote:





> The world in which we live would reject 





> any mention of God in the evolutionary process,  





> IMO.   But  creationism in the schools?  
Could 





> that not be considered the beginnings of a fanatical 





> fundamentalist take-over of the culture? 





ROTFLOL.  I sure hope you were being facetious on purpose.





 





John wrote:





> But to allow a mere  statement that suggests God 





> is somehow in control as the Creator(?)   If this 





> could be presented into the secular system of 





> education without it being coopted by the fundies  





> --  go for it.   But I doubt that it can. 
What a shame 





> that radical fundamentalism within Christiandom forces 





> the Body to dismiss a perfectly wonderful opportunity 





> to introduce the Creator to others.  





In case you did not notice, the fundamentalists are
not causing the acknowledgement of our Creator to be forbidden
in schools.  It is the liberal loonies like this Archbishop of
Canterbury who are doing this.





 





David Miller





 







 







 







Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make
PC-to-Phone Calls to the US
(and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

RE: [TruthTalk] Lance, TFT, Promises etc









Lance, It seems that you are insecure that DM received a genuine
pat on the back, and then was straightforward enough to say he appreciated a
kind word. (Not a good thingy.) iz

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006
3:36 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Lance,
TFT, Promises etc



 



David:Are you that insecure?







- Original Message - 





From: David Miller 





To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 23, 2006
15:09





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Lance, TFT, Promises etc





 





Thank you, Judy, for being perceptive and understanding me.





 





David Miller







- Original Message - 





From: Judy Taylor






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: Monday, March 20,
2006 10:35 AM





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Lance, TFT, Promises etc





 





Then I suggest that those of you who are
titillated by this kind of thing take G with you and





form your own List because this is not
only rude it is divisive and sectarian - Oh thou discerner





of sects   DM does not do
this.  He works hard to try and communicate with others wherever





they are at - This is preferring
one's brother/sister - in LOVE.  An alien concept to some.





 





On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:26:30 + [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:







It should be obvious why G does this.  





It is to some of us.  





 





jd





 





From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



Hey Iz; you
and your husband are in the medical field. What do they say about ppl





who like to
dialogue with themselves all the time like this?  I note none of these are
questions





they are
all answers.  What was the question?





 





On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 22:21:08 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:









..e.g.,
"Take a guard..Go, make the tomb as secure as you know how" means
that Pilate knew, implictly, that he never could 'wash
his hands' of JC (who was, quite interestingly, apprehending him)





 







 





On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 22:11:47 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:







..the difference
betw her & Pilate is that his language, implicitly, his notion of having
'apprehended' JC, is suspect





 





On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 21:41:10 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:







..in her psyche, the writer already knows the notion
is suspect





 





On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 21:28:55 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:







myth (note the
quotes)





 





On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 21:51:52 -0600 "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:





..  “apprehend” 
Christ..

||

RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

If you thought it was true would you want it taught in schools, Lance? JD?
izzy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 3:32 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

David:Is that all you were meaning to say concerning RW? If that's it then, 
I'm with RW on this one. I don't think it should be taught in schools 
either.


- Original Message - 
From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: March 23, 2006 15:04
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism


> The CNN report:  Asked if creationism should be taught in schools, 
> Williams
> said: "I don't think it should, actually. No, no."
>
> So how have I mischaracterized him?
>
> David Miller
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 10:41 AM
> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
>
>
> David:YIKES!! You mischaracterize both Williams and his position. DOUBLE
> YIKES!! I know that you will continue to do so. You are truly trapped,
> David. You've bound yourself with your own theology (not, as you believe,
> Scripture). Your teachers will one day answer for what they've done to you
> and, what you now do to others.Yikes! Yikes! Yikes (that'd be triple 
> yikes)
> - Original Message - 
> From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: March 22, 2006 10:25
> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
>
>
>> Lance wrote:
>>> If Williams is a 'liberal loonie' then
>>> you are a 'sectarian loonie' , David.
>>
>> I'm sectarian only in the sense that the holy and the profane ought to be
>> separate.  I am not sectarian within the group of those who have 
>> submitted
>> unto Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.
>>
>> Lance wrote:
>>> He is a brother in Christ who believes
>>> differently than you on some matters.
>>> Now, if that makes him what you say
>>> then, that makes you what I say.
>>
>> He is not a liberal loony for believing differently from me.  The moniker
>> was offered because of his statement about how acknowledgement of our
>> Creator did not belong in schools.  He made an irrational statement,
>> assuming that CNN reported him accurately.  If he is a brother in Christ,
>> then I expect to hear a retraction or clarification made soon as other
>> believers correct him.  If he is not a brother in Christ, then he will
>> continue to support the working of iniquity that seeks to remove the
>> acknowledgment of God our Creator from the schools.  What he said was 
>> very
>> damaging to our society, to believers who want to acknowledge God the
>> Creator in their study of origins.  To think that science and the
>> acknowledgement of God are incompatible is expected from scientists but
>> not
>> from theologians, and certainly not from the Right Reverend Doctor 
>> Rowland
>> Williams, Archbishop of Canterbury.
>>
>> David Miller
>>
>> --
>> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
>> know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6)
>> http://www.InnGlory.org
>>
>> If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
>> friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
>>
>
>
> --
> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
> know
> how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6)
> http://www.InnGlory.org
>
> If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
> friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
>
>
> --
> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
> know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) 
> http://www.InnGlory.org
>
> If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
> friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
> 


--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know
how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.



--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have

RE: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

Lance, I believe it is not David who "don't/won't" see, but those who
criticize him who are wearing the blinders.  He communicates perfectly well
with those who are of the same Spirit. izzy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Miller
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 1:59 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

I'm not a good communicator, Lance.  I have been convinced of this, and I 
become more convinced the older I get.  I try really hard, but I am 
frequently misunderstood.  Nothing I have tried can cure this.  It is a 
thorn in my side that only grace enables me to endure.  It constantly 
humbles me to realize how bad I am at communicating.

David Miller


- Original Message - 
From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 3:15 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?


I do know this Iz, that my friends and I have puzzled more over David than
anyone on TT over the years. We don't know if he WON'T or CAN'T see.(I opt
for won't.)
- Original Message - 
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: March 22, 2006 14:46
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?


> Yes, it's always the fault of the communicator (whenever attempting to
> communicate with you-know-who.) iz
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:30 PM
> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?
>
> It just might be the case that YOU are not as good a communicater as YOU
> believe yourself to be, David. Ah well, David, soon a long rest from TT
> and,
>
> onto things more important!
> - Original Message - 
> From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: March 22, 2006 13:08
> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?
>
>
>> Lance wrote:
>>> As to mantras David, yours 'I have only
>>> the truth and, all of the truth all of the time
>>> is neither borne out by Scripture nor reality.
>>
>> This is not my mantra.  We have a communication problem here.  I do not
>> believe that I have only the truth or all of the truth all of the time.
>> I
>> don't believe that is true about anybody.
>>
>> David Miller
>> Too tired with being misunderstood to continue...
>>
>> --
>> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
>> know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6)
>> http://www.InnGlory.org
>>
>> If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
>> friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
>>
>
>
> --
> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
> know
> how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6)
> http://www.InnGlory.org
>
> If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
> friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
>
>
>
> --
> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
> know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6)
> http://www.InnGlory.org
>
> If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
> friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
>


--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know

how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.


--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know
how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.



--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

RE: [TruthTalk] on Creationism









Darn. J

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006
12:46 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on
Creationism



 



I enjoyed, and shared, both of your posts earlier today. I
probably shan't be sharing this one.







- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 23, 2006
13:40





Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] on
Creationism





 



And they are just as fishy. iz

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Miller
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006
10:00 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on
Creationism



 



Lance wrote:





> There are as many 'species' of
creationists as fish.





 





The same can be said for evolutionists.  So what is your
point?  





 





David Miller







- Original Message - 





From: Lance Muir






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: Thursday, March
23, 2006 7:02 AM





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on
Creationism





 





There are as many 'species' of creationists as fish. Put a
million of 'em at the keyboards of computers and they'd come up
with.well...what they've already come up with. I rest my case your
honor. 







- Original Message - 





From: Judy Taylor






To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 23, 2006
06:44





Subject: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism





 





Why advocate teaching what you don't
know JD?  As has already been noted "Only when we prove





evolution do we need to concern
ourselves with "harmonizing" evolutionism with theism.  Evidence
that





this level of proof has not been
achieved includes the long list of scientists and others who have abandoned





Darwinism because they became convinced
that the scientific evidence DOES NOT support it.  So why





would you want to warp young minds with
useless information that is not proven?   judyt





[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 









I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school
systems and you are talking about religious people!!!   Amazing





 





Maybe we should install a different creationist version for every major
school system      I am sure we can
find enough fundy ideas to go around.  That way , you would have to worry about
consensus and no one will have the slightest idea what to believe.  but
you and Kev will be happy.  CONSENSUS BE DAMNED.   KNOW THE
TRUTH AND IT SHALL MAKE YOU FREE !!  jd





 





 





 





From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



I surmised as much JD; my point being
that religious ppl have many





and varied points of view about anything
and everything and this is no





measure by which to gauge what is
needful or true.





 





On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:20:02 + [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:







Do you even know what this thread is about, Judy?   





WHICH VIEW OF CREATIONISM GETS INTO THE CIRRICULUM  --  
HUH  ???





 






From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



So?





There isn't a single view of the whole
church that is agreed upon





by the whole church either.  What
does that prove?    judyt





 





On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:







Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I do.   I know
this  --  





there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed upon by the
whole church.   





 





jd





 





 





 





-- Original message -- 
From: "David Miller"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



John wrote:





> The world in which we live would reject 





> any mention of God in the evolutionary process,  





> IMO.   But  creationism in the schools?  
Could 





> that not be considered the beginnings of a fanatical 





> fundamentalist take-over of the culture? 





ROTFLOL.  I sure hope you were being facetious on purpose.





 





John wrote:





> But to allow a mere  statement that suggests God 





> is somehow in control as the Creator(?)   If this 





> could be presented into the secular system of 





> education without it being coopted by the fundies  





> --  go for it.   But I doubt that it can. 
What a shame 





> that radical fundamentalism within Christiandom forces 





> the Body to dismiss a perfectly wonderful opportunity 





> to introduce the Creator to others.  





In case you did not notice, the fundamentalists are
not causing the acknowledgement of our Creator to be forbidden
in schools.  It is the liberal loonies like this Archbishop of
Canterbury who are doing this.





 





David Miller





 







 









 









 







Yahoo!
Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.

RE: [TruthTalk] on Creationism









And they are just as fishy. iz

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David
 Miller
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006
10:00 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on
Creationism



 



Lance wrote:





> There are as many 'species' of
creationists as fish.





 





The same can be said for evolutionists.  So what is your
point?  





 





David Miller







- Original Message - 





From: Lance Muir






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: Thursday, March
23, 2006 7:02 AM





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] on
Creationism





 





There are as many 'species' of creationists as fish. Put a
million of 'em at the keyboards of computers and they'd come up
with.well...what they've already come up with. I rest my case your
honor. 







- Original Message - 





From: Judy Taylor






To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 23, 2006
06:44





Subject: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism





 





Why advocate teaching what you don't
know JD?  As has already been noted "Only when we prove





evolution do we need to concern
ourselves with "harmonizing" evolutionism with theism.  Evidence
that





this level of proof has not been
achieved includes the long list of scientists and others who have abandoned





Darwinism because they became convinced
that the scientific evidence DOES NOT support it.  So why





would you want to warp young minds with
useless information that is not proven?   judyt





[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 









I'm talking about fundy creationist versions in the school
systems and you are talking about religious people!!!   Amazing





 





Maybe we should install a different creationist version for every major
school system      I am sure we can
find enough fundy ideas to go around.  That way , you would have to
worry about consensus and no one will have the slightest idea what to believe. 
but you and Kev will be happy.  CONSENSUS BE DAMNED.   KNOW THE
TRUTH AND IT SHALL MAKE YOU FREE !!  jd





 





 





 





From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



I surmised as much JD; my point being
that religious ppl have many





and varied points of view about anything
and everything and this is no





measure by which to gauge what is
needful or true.





 





On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:20:02 + [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:







Do you even know what this thread is about, Judy?   





WHICH VIEW OF CREATIONISM GETS INTO THE CIRRICULUM  --  
HUH  ???





 






From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



So?





There isn't a single view of the whole
church that is agreed upon





by the whole church either.  What
does that prove?    judyt





 





On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:27:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:







Perhaps the Bishop has the same concerns I do.   I know
this  --  





there isn't a single view of creationism that is agreed upon by the
whole church.   





 





jd





 





 





 





-- Original message -- 
From: "David Miller"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 



John wrote:





> The world in which we live would reject 





> any mention of God in the evolutionary process,  





> IMO.   But  creationism in the schools?  
Could 





> that not be considered the beginnings of a fanatical 





> fundamentalist take-over of the culture? 





ROTFLOL.  I sure hope you were being facetious on purpose.





 





John wrote:





> But to allow a mere  statement that suggests God 





> is somehow in control as the Creator(?)   If this 





> could be presented into the secular system of 





> education without it being coopted by the fundies  





> --  go for it.   But I doubt that it can. 
What a shame 





> that radical fundamentalism within Christiandom forces 





> the Body to dismiss a perfectly wonderful opportunity 





> to introduce the Creator to others.  





In case you did not notice, the fundamentalists are
not causing the acknowledgement of our Creator to be forbidden
in schools.  It is the liberal loonies like this Archbishop of
Canterbury who are doing this.





 





David Miller





 







 









 









 







Yahoo!
Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.

[TruthTalk] FW: ....A MUST to see...February 2, 2006 Rainbow at Elam Bend (McFall, Missouri)









 



.A MUST to see...February 2, 2006 Rainbow at Elam Bend (McFall, Missouri)



 



 











Click
here: February 2, 2006 Rainbow at Elam Bend (McFall, Missouri)

[TruthTalk] Thinking..............


> > >> Subject: FW: Thinking..
> > >>
> > >> It started out innocently enough.
> > >>
> > >> I began to think at parties now and then -- to loosen up.
> > >> Inevitably, though, one thought led to another, and soon I
> > >> was more than just a social thinker.
> > >>
> > >> I began to think alone -- "to relax," I told myself -- but I
> > >> knew it wasn't true.  Thinking became more and more
> > >> important to me, and finally I was thinking all the time.
> > >> That was when things began to sour at home.
> > >>
> > >> One evening I had turned off the TV and asked my wife about
> > >> the meaning of life.  She spent that night at her mother's.
> > >>
> > >> I began to think on the job.  I knew that thinking and
> > >> employment don't mix, but I couldn't stop myself.  I began
> > >> to avoid friends at lunchtime so I could read Thoreau and
> > >> Kafka.  I would return to the office dizzied and confused,
> > >> asking, "What is it exactly we are doing here?"
> > >>
> > >> One day the boss called me in.  He said, "Listen, I like
> > >> you, and it hurts me to say this, but your thinking has
> > >> become a real problem.  If you don't stop thinking on the
> > >> job, you'll have to find another job."
> > >>
> > >> This gave me a lot to think about.  I came home early after
> > >> my conversation with the boss.
> > >>
> > >> "Honey," I confessed, "I've been thinking..."  "I know
> > >> you've been thinking," she said, "and I want a divorce!"
> > >>
> > >> "But Honey, surely it's not that serious."  "It is serious,"
> > >> she said, lower lip aquiver.  "You think as much as college
> > >> professors, and college professors don't make any money, so
> > >> if you keep on thinking, we won't have any money!"
> > >>
> > >> "That's a faulty syllogism," I said impatiently.
> > >>
> > >> She exploded in tears of rage and frustration, but I was in
> > >> no mood to deal with the emotional drama.  "I'm going to
> > >> the library," I snarled as I stomped out the door.  I
> > >> headed for the library, in the mood for some Nietzsche.
> > >>
> > >> I roared into the parking lot with NPR on the radio and ran
> > >> up to the big glass doors...  They didn't open!  The
> > >> library was closed!
> > >>
> > >> To this day, I believe that a Higher Power was looking out
> > >> for me that night.  Leaning on the unfeeling glass,
> > >> whimpering for Zarathustra, a poster caught my eye.
> > >> "Friend, is heavy thinking ruining your life?" it asked.
> > >>
> > >> You probably recognize that line.  It comes from the
> > >> standard Thinker's Anonymous poster.  Which is why I am
> > >> what I am today: a recovering thinker.
> > >>
> > >> I never miss a TA meeting.  At each meeting we watch a
> > >> non-educational video; last week it was "Porky's." Then we
> > >> share experiences about how we avoided thinking since the
> > >> last meeting.
> > >>
> > >> I still have my job, and things are a lot better at home.
> > >> Life just seemed...easier, somehow, as soon as I stopped
> > >> thinking.
> > >>
> > >> I think the road to recovery is nearly complete for me.
> > >>
> > >> Today, I registered to vote as a Democrat.
> > >>
> > >>
> > > 
> > 



--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

Apparently so, Lance.  In the past I have often attempted to reason with you
and your friends, as Judy and David and Kevin still do, with facts and
reasonable discussion.  But instead of responding with further discussion,
one is only met with belittling, derision and mocking. Anything that comes
from faith and the heart, from the Bible or the Holy Spirit is scorned.
That type of response is what eventually causes the Lord to turn a person
over to their sin until they have had their fill of it.  There comes a time
when Believers should no longer strive with scoffers. Matthew 7:6
" Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before
swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to
pieces. One can only wait with an open heart for the prodigals to repent and
return.  That is why I look forward to David closing TruthTalk, as it
currently seems to provide too much of a forum for men to sin and bring
judgment upon themselves. I hope one day to embrace each and every one of
you on the other side, where we will all be adoring Jesus together. Matthew
19:26 And looking at them Jesus said to them, " With people this is
impossible, but with God all things are possible."  Izzy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 6:19 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
2006-Not All Authority is Bad

Are they indeed?


- Original Message - 
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: March 23, 2006 07:09
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 
2006-Not All Authority is Bad


> Gnats have injured my ego more than you and yours are capable of doing. 
> Too
> bad your objectives on TT are thwarted. iz
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 5:39 AM
> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
> 2006-Not All Authority is Bad
>
> Correction then, Iz: You're soo shallow. (That's gwine reach me.)
> - Original Message - 
> From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: March 23, 2006 06:36
> Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
> 2006-Not All Authority is Bad
>
>
>> I'm just trying to stay at a level that can reach you, Lance. :-) iz
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 2:13 PM
>> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
>> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
>> 2006-Not All Authority is Bad
>>
>> You're soo deep, Iz.
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: 
>> Sent: March 22, 2006 14:22
>> Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
>> 2006-Not All Authority is Bad
>>
>>
>>> Baloney.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 7:04 AM
>>> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
>>> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: 
>>> Purim
>>> 2006-Not All Authority is Bad
>>>
>>> Even at this late date such a response is unworthy of you. Israel, on
>>> some
>>> occasions (see it's Lebanese incursion), OPPRESSES!
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message - 
>>> From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> To: 
>>> Sent: March 21, 2006 21:49
>>> Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: 
>>> Purim
>>> 2006-Not All Authority is Bad
>>>
>>>
>>>> But Israel oppresses its enemies by EXISTING!!! (Poor sissies!) iz
>>>>
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:06 PM
>>>> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin:
>>>> Purim
>>>> 2006-Not All Authority is Bad
>>>>
>>>> Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has
>>>> adopted the role of oppressor.
>>

RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

Gnats have injured my ego more than you and yours are capable of doing. Too
bad your objectives on TT are thwarted. iz

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 5:39 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
2006-Not All Authority is Bad

Correction then, Iz: You're soo shallow. (That's gwine reach me.)
- Original Message - 
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: March 23, 2006 06:36
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 
2006-Not All Authority is Bad


> I'm just trying to stay at a level that can reach you, Lance. :-) iz
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 2:13 PM
> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
> 2006-Not All Authority is Bad
>
> You're soo deep, Iz.
> - Original Message - 
> From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: March 22, 2006 14:22
> Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
> 2006-Not All Authority is Bad
>
>
>> Baloney.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 7:04 AM
>> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
>> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
>> 2006-Not All Authority is Bad
>>
>> Even at this late date such a response is unworthy of you. Israel, on 
>> some
>> occasions (see it's Lebanese incursion), OPPRESSES!
>>
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: 
>> Sent: March 21, 2006 21:49
>> Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
>> 2006-Not All Authority is Bad
>>
>>
>>> But Israel oppresses its enemies by EXISTING!!! (Poor sissies!) iz
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:06 PM
>>> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
>>> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: 
>>> Purim
>>> 2006-Not All Authority is Bad
>>>
>>> Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has
>>> adopted the role of oppressor.
>>>
>>> ROTFL
>>> That is Ludicrous on the face of it.
>>> Where did you pick this whopper up?
>>>
>>> Perhaps you need a Geography lesson!
>>> http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html
>>> Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California,
>>> SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES her
>>> size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil.  How dare Arab
>>> propagandists call Israel "expansionist!" And how dare anyone believe
>>> them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the
>>> lands called Arab, be responsible for the political dissatisfaction of
>>> 22 Arab countries? How can the  13 million Jews in the world (almost 5
>>> million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems of
>>> the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to  1.4 billion Muslims
>>> worldwide?
>>>
>>> I guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH too
>>> Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like the UN call for disarmament of
>>> David before he meets Goliath!
>>> LOL
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Lance chimes in: Just like you and I, Linda, John has gone on the odd
>>>> 'rant'. but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC! Sadly,
>>>> Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the
>>>> role of oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN POWER.
>>>>   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>   To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
>>>>   Sent: March 21, 2006 12:11
>>>>   Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin:
>>>> Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   There is little point in talking with someone who knows me better
>>

RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad









You are only bothered by the fact that I
couldn’t care less about your (or jd’s) opinion of me.  The
Lord is the One whose opinion matters to me, and before Him alone I stand or
fall.  He tells me not to waste my time trying to reason with hardened
hearts, as that is His realm and not mine. (Gnash your teeth.)  izzy

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006
5:01 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special
Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad



 



Or, she swims in a shallow pond, Judy.







- Original Message - 





From: Judy Taylor






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: March 22, 2006
15:45





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A
Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad





 





 





I think she adjusts and adapts to
the perceived depth of those she is addressing Lance





 





 





On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:12:35 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> You're soo deep, Iz.
\
> From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 
> > Baloney.






> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of Lance 
> > Even at this late date such a response is unworthy of you. Israel, 
> on some
> > occasions (see it's Lebanese incursion), OPPRESSES!
> >
> >
> > - Original Message - 
> > From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org>
> > Sent: March 21, 2006 21:49
> > Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel 
> Lapin: Purim
> > 2006-Not All Authority is Bad
> >
> >
> >> But Israel
oppresses its enemies by EXISTING!!! (Poor sissies!) 
> iz
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of Kevin 
> Deegan
> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:06 PM
> >> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
> >> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel 
> Lapin: Purim
> >> 2006-Not All Authority is Bad
> >>
> >> Lance says Israel,
many times oppressed and, often by believers, 
> has
> >> adopted the role of oppressor.
> >>
> >> ROTFL
> >> That is Ludicrous on the face of it.
> >> Where did you pick this whopper up?
> >>
> >> Perhaps you need a Geography lesson!
> >> http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html
> >> Israel in RED
, is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of 
> California,
> >> SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 
> TIMES her
> >> size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil.  How dare
Arab
> >> propagandists call Israel "expansionist!"
And how dare anyone 
> believe
> >> them! How can Israel,
which occupies one-sixth of one percent of 
> the
> >> lands called Arab, be responsible for the political 
> dissatisfaction of
> >> 22 Arab countries? How can the  13 million Jews in the world

> (almost 5
> >> million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems

> of
> >> the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to  1.4
billion 
> Muslims
> >> worldwide?
> >>
> >> I guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH too
> >> Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like the UN call for disarmament 
> of
> >> David before he meets Goliath!
> >> LOL
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --- Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> >>
> >>> Lance chimes in: Just like you and I, Linda, John has gone on

> the odd
> >>> 'rant'. but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC! 
> Sadly,
> >>> Israel,
many times oppressed and, often by believers, has 
> adopted the
> >>> role of oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN POWER.
> >>>   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>>   To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
> >>>   Sent: March 21, 2006 12:11
> >>>   Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from
Rabbi Daniel 
> Lapin:
> >>> Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>   There is little point in talking with someone who
knows me 
> better
> >>> than I know me.   Such arrogant surmising is the
product of the 
> kind
> >>> of narrowness that I disregard.
> >>>
> >>>   jd
> >>>
> >>> -- Original message
-

RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

I'm just trying to stay at a level that can reach you, Lance. :-) iz

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 2:13 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
2006-Not All Authority is Bad

You're soo deep, Iz.
- Original Message - 
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: March 22, 2006 14:22
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 
2006-Not All Authority is Bad


> Baloney.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 7:04 AM
> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
> 2006-Not All Authority is Bad
>
> Even at this late date such a response is unworthy of you. Israel, on some
> occasions (see it's Lebanese incursion), OPPRESSES!
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: March 21, 2006 21:49
> Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
> 2006-Not All Authority is Bad
>
>
>> But Israel oppresses its enemies by EXISTING!!! (Poor sissies!) iz
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:06 PM
>> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
>> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
>> 2006-Not All Authority is Bad
>>
>> Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has
>> adopted the role of oppressor.
>>
>> ROTFL
>> That is Ludicrous on the face of it.
>> Where did you pick this whopper up?
>>
>> Perhaps you need a Geography lesson!
>> http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html
>> Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California,
>> SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES her
>> size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil.  How dare Arab
>> propagandists call Israel "expansionist!" And how dare anyone believe
>> them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the
>> lands called Arab, be responsible for the political dissatisfaction of
>> 22 Arab countries? How can the  13 million Jews in the world (almost 5
>> million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems of
>> the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to  1.4 billion Muslims
>> worldwide?
>>
>> I guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH too
>> Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like the UN call for disarmament of
>> David before he meets Goliath!
>> LOL
>>
>>
>>
>> --- Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>> Lance chimes in: Just like you and I, Linda, John has gone on the odd
>>> 'rant'. but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC! Sadly,
>>> Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the
>>> role of oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN POWER.
>>>   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>   To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
>>>   Sent: March 21, 2006 12:11
>>>   Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin:
>>> Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad
>>>
>>>
>>>   There is little point in talking with someone who knows me better
>>> than I know me.   Such arrogant surmising is the product of the kind
>>> of narrowness that I disregard.
>>>
>>>   jd
>>>
>>> -- Original message -- 
>>> From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>
>>> Jd, I never said the Jews will be restored Outside of the church;
>>> they will be become believers.  You say you don't dislike Jews more
>>> than any other unbelievers.  It is obvious to me that you do.  Your
>>> stereotypes and slurs are very revealing.  Izzy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Romans 11
>>> Israel Is Not Cast Away
>>>  1I say then, God has not (A)rejected His people, has He? (B)May
>>> it never be! For (C)I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham,
>>> of the tribe of Benjamin.
>>>
>>>  2God (D)has not rejected His people whom He (E)foreknew (F)Or do
>>> you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how

RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism









But it’s so much easier to sit on
one’s tuffet and criticize the work of others. iz

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006
1:25 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw:
Williams on Creationism



 



Let me get this straight JD.





By Rad Fundies you are talking about
people who believe Genesis as it is





written - Right??





 





PS What is wrong with the Carroll Dean's
and the Pat Robertsons of this





world? You may have to eat those words
one day because both are busy





about what they believe God has called
them to do and who are you to





denigrate another man's servant. O thou
Romans 14 theological expert...





 





On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 19:18:00 + [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:







It is a shame we will not be able to finish this thread, I
suppose,   but I must say something here  --   the
conflict  (speaking for myself) is not between science and
religion.   It is between religion and fundamentalism  (radical
fundamentalism, if you will.)   Knowing that the first step will not
be last step for Rad Fundies,  I prefer to deal with the situation outside
the school setting.    The church has done an excellent job in
this regard with the High School population  --  but it has forsaken
the University campus' without a fight.   Truth will win out if
compared to that which has no bearings.    The failure, here, is
with the church and its seeming inability to continue with the college age
population.   It -- religion  -  simply does not need to be
in collegiate curriculum to win the fight for the hearts and minds of the
college age student.  





 





The church has done a shameful job with the older student, just as it
does with the unwanted-infant population.    If the church could
place 1.4 million newborns each year  --   abortion would be
EASILY defeated.   But , as long as we think  that after
birth, it is all up to the infant,  well, the battle will rage. 






 





In short  --  the fundies  (and not they alone) do not
want the kind of involvement that would make victory in either venue almost
undeniable.  I do not want the Carroll Dean's and Pat Robertsons of this
world running anything of an evangelistic nature.





 





jd





 





 





 





 





 





 





 





 





-- Original message -- 
From: "David Miller"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

> Lance wrote: 
> > If Williams is a 'liberal loonie' then 
> > you are a 'sectarian loonie' , David. 
> 
> I'm sectarian only in the sense that the holy and the profane ought to be 
> separate. I am not sectarian within the group of those who have submitted 
> unto Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. 
> 
> Lance wrote: 
> > He is a brother in Christ who believes 
> > differently than you on some matters. 
> > Now, if that makes him what you say 
> > then, that makes you what I say. 
> 
> He is not a liberal loony for believing differently from me. The moniker 
> was offered because of his statement about how acknowledgement of our 
> Creator did not belong in schools. He made an irrational statement, 
> assuming tha t CNN reported him accurately. If he is a brother in Christ, 
> then I expect to hear a retraction or clarification made soon as other 
> believers correct him. If he is not a brother in Christ, then he will 
> continue to support the working of iniquity that seeks to remove the 
> acknowledgment of God our Creator from the schools. What he said was very 
> damaging to our society, to believers who want to acknowledge God the 
> Creator in their study of origins. To think that science and the 
> acknowledgement of God are incompatible is expected from scientists but
not 
> from theologians, and certainly not from the Right Reverend Doctor Rowland

> Williams, Archbishop of Canterbury. 
> 
> David Miller 
> 
> -- 
> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you
may know how 
> you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org 
> 
> If you do not want to receive posts from this lis t, send an email to 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and
you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend 
> who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
and 
> he will be subscribed.

RE: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

Yes, it's always the fault of the communicator (whenever attempting to
communicate with you-know-who.) iz

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:30 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?

It just might be the case that YOU are not as good a communicater as YOU 
believe yourself to be, David. Ah well, David, soon a long rest from TT and,

onto things more important!
- Original Message - 
From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: March 22, 2006 13:08
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the day in Genesis literal or figurative?


> Lance wrote:
>> As to mantras David, yours 'I have only
>> the truth and, all of the truth all of the time
>> is neither borne out by Scripture nor reality.
>
> This is not my mantra.  We have a communication problem here.  I do not
> believe that I have only the truth or all of the truth all of the time.  I
> don't believe that is true about anybody.
>
> David Miller
> Too tired with being misunderstood to continue...
>
> --
> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
> know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) 
> http://www.InnGlory.org
>
> If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
> friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
> 


--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know
how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.



--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

What would anyone learn from all the tomes you've suggested over the years,
Lance??? iz

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:18 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

No, I've not but, what would I learn were I to do so, David?

- Original Message - 
From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: March 22, 2006 10:50
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

> Lance wrote:
>> One's time would be better spent reading
>> some noteworthy novelists than noteworthy
>> creationists. Lift up Jesus and, creationISM,
>> will fall away as it should.
>
> I can't say that I agree with you here.  Have you read Creation's Tiny
> Mystery, by Robert Gentry?
>
> David Miller
>
> --
> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
> know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) 
> http://www.InnGlory.org
>
> If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
> friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
> 

--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know
how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
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--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
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RE: [TruthTalk] Ruddy faced sheppard opresses Giant!









Oh, Kevin, how very unfair of you to
disprove Lance’s anti-Semitism with the FACTS!!! (And how utterly futile,
no doubt.)  izzy

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006
11:25 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Ruddy
faced sheppard opresses Giant!



 



After years of bloodshed even sissies might get a little aggitated.





 





Please provide one quote:





Where a Jew calls an arab a Rat Dog or vermin





Where a leader of the nation of Israel calls for the complete
annihilation of an Arab state





Where the Jews through a party while dancing on the bodies of dead
arabs





Where Jews carry the entrails of dead arabs as a emblem of victory
above their heads





Where a jew drives his car through a crowd to show them what Jehovah
thinks of them





where Jews torture muslims





Show me a picture of a Jew dressed up as a Human bomb!





Show me some jewish Educational resources (books videos ) endorsing
bombing muslims





Show me Jewish TV shows endorsing Bombing muslims





 





The Little sheppard boy is an Oppressor of the GIANT - Ludicrous on
it's face!





Ya Know that ruddy faced sheppard boy does look a little intimidating!
LOL





 





http://jihadwatch.org/archives/010470.php





Suicide bombing endorsed in kids book recommended by Canadian libraries





 





http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1120847/posts





The body of a police special forces officer who died when Islamic
terrorists blew themselves up in Madrid
was taken from its grave, mutilated and burnt yesterday.






In
addition to supporting WMD thru CPP funds, do you also endorse these Suicide
Bomb books in CANADIAN Libraries???





 





Are these Jewish BOYS











 





Then again Who is oppressing who?





They oppress their own people!



http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4601244/

Turning a blind eye to child suicide bombers - Where's the
outrage over the Palestinians' mistreatment of children?



ARE YOU BLIND IN ONE EYE? Slingshot MISHAP?





 






Lance Muir
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:





Even at this late date such a response is unworthy of you. Israel, on some

occasions (see it's Lebanese incursion), OPPRESSES!


- Original Message - 
From: "ShieldsFamily" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: 
Sent: March 21, 2006 21:49
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 
2006-Not All Authority is Bad


> But Israel
oppresses its enemies by EXISTING!!! (Poor sissies!) iz
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan
> Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:06 PM
> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
> 2006-Not All Authority is Bad
>
> Lance says Israel,
many times oppressed and, often by believers, has
> adopted the role of oppressor.
>
> ROTFL
> That is Ludicrous on the face of it.
> Where did you pick this whopper up?
>
> Perhaps you need a Geography lesson!
> http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html
> Israel in RED , is a
democratic nation 1/19th the size of California,
> SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES her
> size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil. How dare Arab
> propagandists call Israel
"expansionist!" And how dare anyone believe
> them! How can Israel,
which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the
> lands called Arab, be responsible for the political dissatisfaction of
> 22 Arab countries? How can the 13 million Jews in the world (almost 5
> million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems of
> the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to 1.4 billion Muslims
> worldwide?
>
> I guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH too
> Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like the UN call for disarmament of
> David before he meets Goliath!
> LOL
>
>
>
> --- Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
>
>> Lance chimes in: Just like you and I, Linda, John has gone on the odd
>> 'rant'. but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC! Sadly,
>> Israel,
many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the
>> role of oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN POWER.
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
>> Sent: March 21, 2006 12:11
>> Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin:
>> Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad
>>
>>
>> There is little point in talking with someone who knows me better
>> than I know me. Such arrogant surmising is the product of the kind
>> of narrowness that I disregard.
>>
>> jd
>>
>>

RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

The problem is when any belief held by a fundamental Christian is labeled
"Fundamentalism". izzy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Miller
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 9:28 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

Lance wrote:
> Fundamental Christianity is [fine]... 
> FundamentalISM ought not be 
> believed by anyone.

FWIW:  I can appreciate this distinction Lance makes.

David Miller

--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know
how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
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[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
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RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

Baloney. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 7:04 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
2006-Not All Authority is Bad

Even at this late date such a response is unworthy of you. Israel, on some 
occasions (see it's Lebanese incursion), OPPRESSES!


- Original Message - 
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: March 21, 2006 21:49
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 
2006-Not All Authority is Bad


> But Israel oppresses its enemies by EXISTING!!! (Poor sissies!) iz
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan
> Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:06 PM
> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
> 2006-Not All Authority is Bad
>
> Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has
> adopted the role of oppressor.
>
> ROTFL
> That is Ludicrous on the face of it.
> Where did you pick this whopper up?
>
> Perhaps you need a Geography lesson!
> http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html
> Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California,
> SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES her
> size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil.  How dare Arab
> propagandists call Israel "expansionist!" And how dare anyone believe
> them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the
> lands called Arab, be responsible for the political dissatisfaction of
> 22 Arab countries? How can the  13 million Jews in the world (almost 5
> million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems of
> the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to  1.4 billion Muslims
> worldwide?
>
> I guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH too
> Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like the UN call for disarmament of
> David before he meets Goliath!
> LOL
>
>
>
> --- Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Lance chimes in: Just like you and I, Linda, John has gone on the odd
>> 'rant'. but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC! Sadly,
>> Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the
>> role of oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN POWER.
>>   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>   To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
>>   Sent: March 21, 2006 12:11
>>   Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin:
>> Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad
>>
>>
>>   There is little point in talking with someone who knows me better
>> than I know me.   Such arrogant surmising is the product of the kind
>> of narrowness that I disregard.
>>
>>   jd
>>
>> -- Original message -- 
>> From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>
>> Jd, I never said the Jews will be restored Outside of the church;
>> they will be become believers.  You say you don't dislike Jews more
>> than any other unbelievers.  It is obvious to me that you do.  Your
>> stereotypes and slurs are very revealing.  Izzy
>>
>>
>>
>> Romans 11
>> Israel Is Not Cast Away
>>  1I say then, God has not (A)rejected His people, has He? (B)May
>> it never be! For (C)I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham,
>> of the tribe of Benjamin.
>>
>>  2God (D)has not rejected His people whom He (E)foreknew (F)Or do
>> you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how
>> he pleads with God against Israel?
>>
>>  3"Lord, (G)THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN
>> YOUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY LIFE."
>>
>>  4But what is the divine response to him? "(H)I HAVE KEPT for
>> Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL."
>>
>>  5In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present
>> time (I)a remnant according to God's gracious choice.
>>
>>  6But (J)if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of
>> works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.
>>
>>  7What then? What (K)Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but
>> those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were (L)hardened;
>>
>>  8just as it is written,
>>  "(M)GOD GAVE THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR,
>>  EYES TO SEE NOT AND EARS TO HEAR NOT,
>>

RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

Only in your hair-splitting mentality. iz

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 7:03 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism

Iz:Fundamental Christianity is that which John believes. FundamentalISM 
ought not be believed by anyone.


- Original Message - 
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: March 21, 2006 21:48
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism


> If fundamental Christianity is a problem for you, of what spirit are you? 
> iz
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan
> Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:15 PM
> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism
>
> DM says In case you did not notice, the fundamentalists are not causing
> the acknowledgement of our Creator to be forbidden in schools.  It is
> the liberal loonies like this Archbishop of Canterbury who are doing
> this.
>
> Some around here are concerned that there are "FUNDIES" lurking around
> every keyboard on TT.
> Perhaps these previous comments are a incantation meant to flush them
> out into the open.
> One can never be to prepared to protect oneself from fundaMENTALism!
>
> --- David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> John wrote:
>> > The world in which we live would reject
>> > any mention of God in the evolutionary process,
>> > IMO.   But  creationism in the schools?   Could
>> > that not be considered the beginnings of a fanatical
>> > fundamentalist take-over of the culture?
>>
>> ROTFLOL.  I sure hope you were being facetious on purpose.
>>
>> John wrote:
>> > But to allow a mere  statement that suggests God
>> > is somehow in control as the Creator(?)   If this
>> > could be presented into the secular system of
>> > education without it being coopted by the fundies
>> > --  go for it.   But I doubt that it can.  What a shame
>> > that radical fundamentalism within Christiandom forces
>> > the Body to dismiss a perfectly wonderful opportunity
>> > to introduce the Creator to others.
>>
>> In case you did not notice, the fundamentalists are not causing the
>> acknowledgement of our Creator to be forbidden in schools.  It is the
>> liberal loonies like this Archbishop of Canterbury who are doing
>> this.
>>
>> David Miller
>>
>
>
> __
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> --
> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
> know
> how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6)
> http://www.InnGlory.org
>
> If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
> friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
>
>
>
> --
> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
> know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) 
> http://www.InnGlory.org
>
> If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
> friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
> 


--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know
how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.



--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad

It is arrogance for you to think that you know more about the issue than we
do simply because we don't agree.  Add to that the ridiculously outrageous
nature of your accusations.  izzy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 6:56 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim
2006-Not All Authority is Bad

I'd answer IFF you'd read/watch (i.e. make use of) the data available. We 
both know that you (and David and, Judy and, Iz) would not.


- Original Message - 
From: "Kevin Deegan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: March 21, 2006 17:05
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin: Purim 
2006-Not All Authority is Bad


> Lance says Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has
> adopted the role of oppressor.
>
> ROTFL
> That is Ludicrous on the face of it.
> Where did you pick this whopper up?
>
> Perhaps you need a Geography lesson!
> http://www.masada2000.org/geography.html
> Israel in RED , is a democratic nation 1/19th the size of California,
> SURROUNDED by 22 hostile Arab/Islamic dictatorships with 640 TIMES her
> size, 60 TIMES her population and ALL the oil.  How dare Arab
> propagandists call Israel "expansionist!" And how dare anyone believe
> them! How can Israel, which occupies one-sixth of one percent of the
> lands called Arab, be responsible for the political dissatisfaction of
> 22 Arab countries? How can the  13 million Jews in the world (almost 5
> million fewer than they were in 1939!) be blamed for the problems of
> the 300 million Arabs, who have brotherly ties to  1.4 billion Muslims
> worldwide?
>
> I guess DAVID OPPRESSED GOLIATH too
> Israel Oppressing the Arabs is like the UN call for disarmament of
> David before he meets Goliath!
> LOL
>
>
>
> --- Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Lance chimes in: Just like you and I, Linda, John has gone on the odd
>> 'rant'. but, my goodness, JOHN IS IN NO WAY ANTI-SEMITIC! Sadly,
>> Israel, many times oppressed and, often by believers, has adopted the
>> role of oppressor.This is WHO WE ARE WHEN IN POWER.
>>   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>   To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
>>   Sent: March 21, 2006 12:11
>>   Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A Special Message from Rabbi Daniel Lapin:
>> Purim 2006-Not All Authority is Bad
>>
>>
>>   There is little point in talking with someone who knows me better
>> than I know me.   Such arrogant surmising is the product of the kind
>> of narrowness that I disregard.
>>
>>   jd
>>
>> -- Original message -- 
>> From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>
>> Jd, I never said the Jews will be restored Outside of the church;
>> they will be become believers.  You say you don't dislike Jews more
>> than any other unbelievers.  It is obvious to me that you do.  Your
>> stereotypes and slurs are very revealing.  Izzy
>>
>>
>>
>> Romans 11
>> Israel Is Not Cast Away
>>  1I say then, God has not (A)rejected His people, has He? (B)May
>> it never be! For (C)I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham,
>> of the tribe of Benjamin.
>>
>>  2God (D)has not rejected His people whom He (E)foreknew (F)Or do
>> you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how
>> he pleads with God against Israel?
>>
>>  3"Lord, (G)THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN
>> YOUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY LIFE."
>>
>>  4But what is the divine response to him? "(H)I HAVE KEPT for
>> Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL."
>>
>>  5In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present
>> time (I)a remnant according to God's gracious choice.
>>
>>  6But (J)if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of
>> works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.
>>
>>  7What then? What (K)Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but
>> those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were (L)hardened;
>>
>>  8just as it is written,
>>  "(M)GOD GAVE THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR,
>>  EYES TO SEE NOT AND EARS TO HEAR NOT,
>>  DOWN TO THIS VERY DAY."
>>
>>  9And David says,
>>  "(N)LET THEIR TABLE BECOME A SNARE AND A TRAP,
>>  AND A STUMBLING BLOCK AN

RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Williams on Creationism