Re: [TruthTalk] Law and Spirit

[Judy Taylor]

 
 
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 10:05:10 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Actually, you didn't answer the question.   
The gentile in Romans 2  IS NOT  a 
regenerated individual.   
How do we know this?  This is a person who 
has never heard the preaching of the law of God  
( Paul contrasts hearing with doing in this 
context) AND his salvation is tenuous , at best,  because 
it is based solely upon his ability to "naturally" obey the law  apart from any spirit 
influence or knowledge 
of the law. 
 
You have changed the wording of Vs.14 from "When 
gentiles who have not the law do by nature what 
the law requires" - to "naturally" obeying the law 
JD.  Why? How do you know they never heard the 
preaching of the cross of 
Christ?   
 
The point of Romans 2 is the contrast between 
the have's and the have not's.   The Gentiles 

are those who outside God's revelation and the Jews 
are those who are in.   
 
He is speaking to the Church in Rome JD; all believers are in and in Christ there is no 
separation between these ppl so why are 
you making one here?   
 
I am making one because Paul did.   
CAn't you read?   He is the one who speaks of G-E-N-T-I-L-E-S  

and J-E-W 
and and 
contrasts them in terms of hearing the law and not having heard the law.   
You deny this?
 
Only to make his larger point which is what he 
begins the 2nd chapter of Romans with, which
is "therefore you have no excuse O man whoever 
you are for judging another - he then goes on
to explain God's kindness which is meant to 
lead them to repentance and/or God's righteous
judgment"  His point is NOT  racial 
differences.
 
Paul begins with this scenario.    Now I 
know that this is no longer true  -   but Paul is using this 

very distinction to teach that in Christ's economy, the distinction between Jew and Gentile is 
no longer 
important. 
 
Not only unimportant, it is no longer there 
unless the Jews are still practicing Judaism.  Remember 

this is written in 57 AD 24yrs after the cross 
and in Rom 2:11 Paul announces that God shows 
NO
partiality.  
 
"non-partiality" IS NOT the theme of this 
section of Romans 2, Judy  ..inwardness verses the 

letter of the law is,  hearing versus 
doing.   In the passage THE GENTILE IS ONLY ONE DOING 

THE WUILL 
OF GOD BY NATURE..the Jew is not.
 
He does go on in the rest of 
chapter 2 to contrast teaching the law to others while neglecting 
to
obey it themselves dishonors God and makes them 
lawbreakers which is curious in the light of
your teaching JD which is 
that following the cross the law is no 
more. 
 
The Gentile  -  typically 
speaking  -  is not God's chosen while the Jew is  -- 
typically speaking .    
Using this stereotype, Paul makes the point that is most shocking to the 
Jewish Christian in Rome
hearing is not the most important 
issue  doing is.   
 
Why would Paul contradict (by what you see as a 
stereotype) what he had just said in Vs.11 JD?
This makes no sense at all.  The Jews had 
been trying to do God's Law since Moses came 
down   
from Mt. Sinai 
unsuccessfully.   
 
Judy, in Romans 2:23, who is NOT keeping the 
law  --  the Jew or the Gentile?   And who is 
doing the deeds of the law by 
"nature?"
 
How did we get to Vs.23?  I thought we 
were discussing Romans 2:14,15?  Arn't you a bit 
ahead
of yourself? Oh well!  Let's just look at 
Paul's summary in Vs.29 which is "He is not a real Jew
who is one outwardly, nor is true 
circumcision something external and physical. He is a 
Jew
who is one inwardly, and real circumcision 
is a matter of the heart, spiritual and not literal. 
His
praise is not from men but from God.  OK 
so the gentiles were able to do the law because they
had circumcized hearts. IOW they were born of 
the Spirit so they were able to do "by nature"
what is required by God's 
Law.
 
The contrast of hearing and doing is unmistakable in 
2:13-14.   Hence, the Gentile has not 
heard the law.  
 
It is not there JD, you are reading this into the 
text.    
 
This is the perfect example of bias overwhelming reason.   
You are  so convinced of the notion 
that unregenerated man cannot 
understand the will of God nor accomplish anything good that 

you cannot see what is being said here in 
Romans 2: 11ff.   You don't see the words "Gentiles" 
and "Jew" in this text?   You don't 
see the words "by nature" associated with the Gentiles 
only in this passage?  You can't see 
this?  
 
Yes I can see the words JD - and I can 
understand them.  There is nothing in the text about
whether or not the gentiles who are by nature 
doing what is required in the law have or have
not heard the preaching of the 
gospel.   You have the old "us vs them" mentality that is
accepted in many church circles.  Think 
about it in light of the fall of man and the 
old sin nature
How is an unregenerate gentile who has never heard of God's Law going to do 
what is
required in it by their pagan 
nature?
 
As far as unregenerated man not being able to do 
good   --   wh

Re: [TruthTalk] Law and Spirit

[knpraise]

  -Original Message-From: Judy Taylor <jandgtaylor1@juno.com>To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 08:25:25 -0500Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Law and Spirit



On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 08:42:37 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:







Actually, you didn't answer the question.   The gentile in Romans 2 IS NOT  a regenerated individual.   How do we know this?  This is a person who has never heard the preaching of the law of God  ( Paul contrasts hearing with doing in this context) AND his salvation is tenuous , at best,  because it is based solely upon his ability to "naturally" obey the law  apart from any spirit influence or knowledge of the law. 
 
How do you know he had never heard the preaching of the cross of Christ?  He just didn't have the Law the way that the Jews did. 
 
The point of Romans 2 is the contrast between the have's and the have not's.   The Gentiles are those who outside God's revelation and the Jews are those who are in.   
 
He is speaking to the Church in Rome JD; all believers are in and in Christ there is no separation 
between these ppl so why are you making one here?   I am making one because Paul did.   CAn't you read?   He is the one who speaks of G-E-N-T-I-L-E-S  and J-E-W and and contrasts them in terms of hearing the law and not having heard the law.   You deny this?
 
Paul begins with this scenario.    Now I know that this is no longer true  -   but Paul is using this very distinction to teach that in Christ's economy, the distinction between Jew and Gentile is no longer important. 
 
Not only unimportant, it is no longer there unless the Jews are still practicing Judaism.  Remember
this is written in 57 AD 24yrs after the cross and in Rom 2:11 Paul announces that God shows NO   partiality.  "non-partiality" IS NOT the theme of this section of Romans 2, Judy  ..inwardness verses the letter of the law is,  hearing versus doing.   In the passage THE GENTILE IS ONLY ONE DOING THE WUILL OF GOD BY NATURE..the Jew is not. 
 
T he Gentile  -  typically speaking  -  is not God's chosen while the Jew is  -- typically speaking .    Using this stereotype, Paul makes the point that is most shocking to the Jewish Christian in Rome..  hearing is not the most important issue  doing is.   
 
Why would Paul contradict (by what you see as a stereotype) what he had just said in Vs.11 JD?
This makes no sense at all.  The Jews had been trying to do God's Law since Moses came down   from Mt. Sinai unsuccessfully.   Judy, in Romans 2:23, who is NOT keeping the law  --  the Jew or the Gentile?   And who is doing the deeds of the law by "nature?"
 
The contrast of hearing and doing is unmistakable in 2:13-14.   Hence, the Gentile has not heard 
the law.  
 
It is not there JD, you are reading this into the text.    This is the perfect example of bias overwhelming reason.   You are  so convinced of the notion that unregenerated man cannot understand the will of God nor accomplish anything good that you cannot see what is being said here in Romans 2: 11ff.   You don't see the words "Gentiles" and "Jew" in this text?   You don't see the words "by nature" associated with the Gentiles only in this passage?  You can't see this?  
 
 
 
 It's the old "us vs them" mentality that is
accepted in many church circles.  Think about it in light of the fall of man and the old sin nature
How is an unregenerate gentile who has never heard God's Law going to do it by nature? They
would not even know what to do - never having been told.
 
As far as unregenerated man not being able to do good   --   why did Jonah go  to Nineveh? 
 
Jonah was a prophet who had a ministry gift working in his life which he was trying to run from.    Judy, you chuck and jive, giving no answers because your theology has no answers.  It is empty.   NEWS FLASH:  NINEVEH REPENTED.  
 
The Roman believer (Jew or gentile) would have to be regenerated to 'DO BY NATURE' what is written in God's Law.  Love is the fulfillment of the law and an unregenerated gentile would be unable to do this.  Paul was speaking to the Church  at Rome wasn't he? 
 
Not in Romans 2. He was addressing the Judaizing legalists of the Roman church in chapters 2, 3, 4. 
 
No he wasn't JD; the letter begins with an introduction and then in Vs.7 Paul writes "To all God's beloved in Rome, who are called to be saints ... this is who the letter is written to -the called out ones. Chapters 2,3,4 and 5 will have special import to the Jew.   Romans 2:23 is a question of the Jewish Christian only, Judy.  
 
And , as often as not,   he fails in this doing , by the way. If the phrase "by nature" means to include the indwelling of the Spirit, then the Jew in this passage DOES NOT HAVE THE SPIRIT, for he is clearly NO

Re: [TruthTalk] Law and Spirit

[Judy Taylor]

s with disobedience - By Vs.12 Paul writes 
"All who have sinned without the law will also perish 
without 
the law and all who have sinned under the 
law will be judged by the law.  I see no statement 
about
the spiritual condition of the Jews here at 
all.
 
I assume a believing Jew would do the same 
thing but having access to God's law helps 
me so I figure it would also help them. Why would the Judaizers 
be coming to the 
Church at Rome on Sunday - they would be going to the Synagogue 
wouldn't they?
 
And your out of context I Co 2:14 
is really getting old.   So unregenerated man cannot receive the things of 
God unless he is given the Holy Spirit of God  --  
right?   
 
RIGHT!!  This is what Paul is teaching here 
and it would make things a whole lot 
easier for you if you accepted the fact.
 
There are those who have the Spirit and are thereby regenerated and those who do not and are 
unregenerated.   And 
the unregenerated cannot receive the 
things of God  -  nothing from God for all that God lays on us is 
spiritual  --   right  
 
RIGHT.  
1.  God is a Spirit (John 4:24)
2.  The Lord is that Spirit and where the Spirit of the Lord is there is 
liberty (2 Cor 3:17)
3.  Satan the fallen angel is a 
spirit
4.  Mankind are spirit beings (Zech 12:1)
5.  The Law is spiritual (Rom 
7:14)
 
And this would include the 
Corinthians  --  right??  I mean , the text says ".and even 
now, you are still not able"  (I Co 3:2).  So, why is he writing to them 
if they are not able to understand what he is saying?   And how 
did they come to a knowledge of the truth in the first place 
?   And on what occasion do you KNOW that you are right 
and cannot be wrong,  Judy 
y?   How many times have you read the text,  layed it down and said to yourself,"  I have 
no need to read this again for I know that I know ,"  Could you give me 
an example of a few specific scriptures that you understand to the 
point of never having to review those scriptures for "truth's" sake?   Maybe just four or 
five scriptures.  
 
No JD, I couldn't give you anything 
because you and your theologians already 
KNOW IT ALL.
 
And how many of these questions 
will you now ignore?   
 
If I had been sensible enough to read through the 
whole thing first I wouldn't have answered any of them
because you are not sincerely wanting to know 
anything from me - you are just bloviating here and your mind
is already made up.
 
Its called  "gatcha."   Bless 
your heart, Judy.   You are honest enough to allow the post to 
include your reponse just as it happened !!!   Hats 
off.   Most would have changed their first reponses.   
And you are wrong about my 
honesty.   I would accept your point of view if I could answer my 
own queestions offered to you.   But I cannot 
answer those questions using your theology either.  

 
 
 
You are cultish in your doctrine and blind 
to any possibility of 
change.   That is NOT the 
leadership of the Spirit.  
 
If I were you JD, I'd go back to Barth. He is the one 
with all the answers, along with TFT, Polyani, 
etc...  Why 
go back when I am doing so good with the biblical text ??!!  

 
I will await your answers.   Still 
    waiting.  
     
    jd
 
 
 
 
 
 
-Original Message-From: Judy Taylor <jandgtaylor1@juno.com>To: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 03:24:07 
-0500Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Law and Spirit



Whatever JD;  You asked the question, I just answered 
it.
Maybe it's best for you to stick with Barth 
and leave 
Romans to those who understand Paul the apostle 
who
is inspired by the Spirit of God.  
As I've said before scripture is 
'spiritually discerned' 1 Cor 
2:14. So my reason, your reason, and/or 
Barth's 
reasonings have nothing to do 
with anything, not anything important that is.
 
  
  judyt    
  He that says "I know Him" and doesn't 
  keep His 
  Commandments  
  is a liar (1 John 2:4)
    
judyt    
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His 
Commandments  
is a liar (1 John 2:4)

Re: [TruthTalk] Law and Spirit

[knpraise]

  -Original Message-From: Judy Taylor <jandgtaylor1@juno.com>To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 09:08:33 -0500Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Law and Spirit



 
 
On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 08:42:37 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:



Actually, you didn't answer the question.   The gentile in Romans 2 IS NOT  a regenerated individual.   How do we know this?  This is a person who has never heard the preaching of the law of God  ( Paul contrasts hearing with doing in this context) AND his salvation is tenuous , at best,  because it is based solely upon his ability to "naturally" obey the law  apart from any spirit influence or knowledge of the law. 
 
How do you know he had never heard the preaching of the cross of Christ?  He just didn't have the Law the way that the Jews did. The point of Romans 2 is the contrast between the have's and the have not's.   The Gentiles are those who outside God's revelation and the Jews are those who are in.   Paul begins with this scenario.    Now I know that this is no longer true  -   but Paul is using this very distinction to teach that in Christ's economy, the distinction between Jew and Gentile is no longer important. T
he Gentile  -  typically speaking  -  is not God's chosen while the Jew is  -- typically speaking .    Using this stereotype, Paul makes the point that is most shocking to the Jewish Christian in Rome..  hearing is not the most important issue  doing is.    The contrast of hearing and doing is unmistakable in 2:13-14.   Hence, the Gentile has not heard the law.  
 
As far as unregenerated man not being able to do good   --   why did Jonah go  to Nineveh? 
 
 
He would have to be regenerated to 'DO BY NATURE' what is written in God's Law.  Love is the
fulfillment of the law and the unregenerated gentile would be unable to do this.  Paul was speaking to the Church  at Rome wasn't he? Not in Romans 2.   He was addressing the Judaizing legalists of the Roman church in chapters 2, 3, 4.   
 
And , as often as not,   he fails in this doing , by the way. If the phrase "by nature" means to include the indwelling of the Spirit,  then the Jew in this passage DOES NOT HAVE THE SPIRIT, for he is clearly NOT doing the law "by nature."   Your theology of Ro 2 has the Jew , in this passage lost and without the Spirit.   But, of course, you do not believe that a nd so away you go.  
 
My so called theology is not judging any Jew one way or the other. I am not talking about judging the Jew, Judy.   I am talking about your theology.    First, you imply that "by nature" means the new nature,  but then,in this passage only the Gentile has this "nature" thing going for him which means that the Jew does not.  Paul is making a contrast between what is done "by nature" and what is not.   You simply cannot sneak the Holy Spirit into any of this without serious contextual problems  --  one of which I have mentioned.  "By nature" simply cannot mean to include the "new nature."   
 
 
 I assume a believing Jew would do the same
thing but having access to God's law helps me so I figure it would also help them. Why would the Judaizers be coming
to the Church at Rome on Sunday - they would be going to the Synagogue wouldn't they?
 
And your out of context I Co 2:14 is really getting old.   So unregenerated man cannot receive the things of God unless he is given the Holy Spirit of God  --  right?   
 
RIGHT!!  This is what Paul is teaching here and it would make things a whole lot easier for you if you accepted the fact.
 
There are those who have the Spirit and are thereby regenerated and those who do not and are unregenerated.   And the unregenerated cannot receive the things of God  -  nothing from God for all that God lays on us is spiritual  --   right  
 
RIGHT.  
1.  God is a Spirit (John 4:24)
2.  The Lord is that Spirit and where the Spirit of the Lord is there is liberty (2 Cor 3:17)
3.  Mankind are spirit beings (Zech 12:1)
4.  The Law is spiritual (Rom 7:14)
 
And this would include the Corinthians  --  right??  I mean , the text says ".and even now, you are still not able"  (I Co 3:2).  So, why is he writing to them if they are not able to understand what he is saying?   And how did they come to a knowledge of the truth in the first place ?   And on what occasion do you KNOW that you are right and cannot be wrong,  Judy y?   How many times have you read the text,  layed it down and said to yourself,"  I have no need to read this again for I know that I know ,"  Could you give me an example of a few specific scriptures that you understand to the point of never having to review those scriptures
 for "truth's" sake?   Maybe just four or five scriptures.  
 
No JD, I couldn't give you anything because you and your t

Re: [TruthTalk] Law and Spirit

[Judy Taylor]

 
 
On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 08:42:37 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  
  
  Actually, you didn't answer the question.   The gentile in 
  Romans 2 IS NOT  a 
  regenerated individual.   How do we know this?  This 
  is a person who has never heard the preaching of the law of God  
  ( Paul contrasts hearing with doing in this context) AND his salvation is 
  tenuous , at best,  because it is based solely upon his ability to 
  "naturally" obey the law  apart from any spirit influence or knowledge of 
  the law. 
   
  How do you know he had never heard the preaching of 
  the cross of Christ?  He just didn't have the Law the way
  that the Jews did. He 
  would have to be regenerated to 'DO BY NATURE' what is written in God's 
  Law.  Love is the
  fulfillment of the law and the unregenerated gentile 
  would be unable to do this.  Paul was speaking to the Church
  at Rome wasn't he? 
   
  And , as often as not,   he fails in this doing , by the 
  way. If the phrase "by nature" means to include the indwelling of the Spirit,  then the Jew in 
  this passage DOES NOT HAVE THE SPIRIT, for 
  he is clearly NOT doing the law "by 
  nature."   Your theology of Ro 2 has the Jew , in this passage lost 
  and without the Spirit.   But, of course, you do not believe that a 
  nd so away you go.  
   
  My so called theology is not judging any Jew one way 
  or the other.  I assume a believing Jew would do the same
  thing but having access to God's law helps me so 
  I figure it would also help them. Why would the Judaizers be 
  coming
  to the Church at Rome on 
  Sunday - they would be going to the Synagogue wouldn't they?
   
  And your out of context I Co 2:14 is really getting old.   So 
  unregenerated man cannot receive the 
  things of God unless he is given the Holy Spirit of God  --  
  right?   
   
  RIGHT!!  This is what Paul is teaching here and 
  it would make things a whole lot easier for you if you accepted the 
  fact.
   
  There are those who have the Spirit and are thereby regenerated and those 
  who do not and are unregenerated.   And the unregenerated cannot receive the things of God  -  
  nothing from God for all that God lays on us is spiritual  --   
  right  
   
  RIGHT.  
  1.  God is a Spirit (John 4:24)
  2.  The Lord is that Spirit and where the Spirit 
  of the Lord is there is liberty (2 Cor 3:17)
  3.  Mankind are spirit beings (Zech 
  12:1)
  4.  The Law is spiritual (Rom 7:14)
   
  And this would include the Corinthians  --  right??  I 
  mean , the text says ".and even now, you are still not able"  (I Co 
  3:2).  So, why is he writing to them if they are not able to 
  understand what he is saying?   And how did they come to a knowledge 
  of the truth in the first place ?   And on what occasion 
  do you KNOW that you are right and cannot be wrong,  Jud 
  y?   How many times have you read the text,  layed it down and said to yourself,"  I 
  have no need to read this again for I know that I know ,"  Could you give 
  me an example of a few specific scriptures that you understand to the 
  point of never having to review those scriptures for "truth's" sake?   Maybe just four or five 
  scriptures.  
   
  No JD, I couldn't give you anything because you and 
  your theologians already KNOW IT ALL.
   
  And how many of these questions will you now ignore?   
   
  If I had been sensible enough to read through the 
  whole thing first I wouldn't have answered any of them
  because you are not sincerely wanting to know 
  anything from me - you are just bloviating here and your mind
  is already made up.
   
  You are cultish in your doctrine and 
  blind to any possibility of 
  change.   That is NOT the 
  leadership of the Spirit.  
   
  If I were you JD, I'd go back to Barth. He is the one 
  with all the answers, along with TFT, Polyani, etc...
   
  I will await your answers.
   
  jd
   
   
   
   
   
   
  -Original Message-From: Judy Taylor <jandgtaylor1@juno.com>To: 
  TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: 
  TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 03:24:07 
  -0500Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Law and Spirit
  

  
  Whatever JD;  You asked the question, I just answered 
  it.
  Maybe it's best for you to stick with Barth 
  and leave Romans to those who understand Paul the apostle 
  who
  is inspired by the Spirit of God.  
  As I've said before scripture is 
  'spiritually discerned' 1 Cor 2:14. So my 
  reason, your reason, and/or Barth's 
  reasonings have nothing to do with 
  anything, not anything important that is.
   
    
judyt    
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His 
Commandments  
is a liar (1 John 2:4)

Re: [TruthTalk] Law and Spirit

[knpraise]

Actually, you didn't answer the question.   The gentile in Romans 2 IS NOT  a regenerated individual.   How do we know this?  This is a person who has never heard the preaching of the law of God  ( Paul contrasts hearing with doing in this context) AND his salvation is tenuous , at best,  because it is based solely upon his ability to "naturally" obey the law  apart from any spirit influence or knowledge of the law.   And , as often as not,   he fails in this doing , by the way. If the phrase "by nature" means to include the indwelling of the Spirit,  then the Jew in this passage DOES NOT HAVE THE SPIRIT, for he is clearly NOT doing the law "by nature."   Your theology of Ro 2 has the Jew , in this passage lost and without the Spirit.   But, of course, you do not believe that a
nd so away you go.   
 
And your out of context I Co 2:14 is really getting old.   So unregenerated man cannot receive the things of God unless he is given the Holy Spirit of God  --  right?   There are those who have the Spirit and are thereby regenerated and those who do not and are unregenerated.   And the unregenerated cannot receive the things of God  -  nothing from God for all that God lays on us is spiritual  --   right   And this would include the Corinthians  --  right??  I mean , the text says ".and even now, you are still not able"  (I Co 3:2).  So, why is he writing to them if they are not able to understand what he is saying?   And how did they come to a knowledge of the truth in the first place ?   And on what occasion do you KNOW that you are right and cannot be wrong,  Jud
y?   How many times have you read the text,  layed it down and said to yourself,"  I have no need to read this again for I know that I know ,"  Could you give me an example of a few specific scriptures that you understand to the point of never having to review those scriptures for "truth's" sake?   Maybe just four or five scriptures.  
 
And how many of these questions will you now ignore?   You are cultish in your doctrine and blind to any possibility of change.   That is NOT the leadership of the Spirit.  
 
I will await your answers.
 
jd
 
 
 
 
 
 
 -Original Message-From: Judy Taylor <jandgtaylor1@juno.com>To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 03:24:07 -0500Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Law and Spirit



Whatever JD;  You asked the question, I just answered it.
Maybe it's best for you to stick with Barth and leave Romans to those who understand Paul the apostle who
is inspired by the Spirit of God.  As I've said before scripture is 'spiritually discerned' 1 Cor 2:14. So my reason, your reason, and/or Barth's reasonings have nothing to do with anything, not anything important that is.
 

Re: [TruthTalk] Law and Spirit

[Judy Taylor]

Whatever JD;  You asked the question, I 
just answered it.
Maybe it's best for you to stick with Barth and 
leave Romans to those who understand Paul the apostle who
is inspired by the Spirit of God.  
As I've said before scripture is 
'spiritually discerned' 1 Cor 2:14. So my reason, your reason, and/or Barth's 
reasonings have nothing to do with 
anything, not anything important that is.
 
On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 23:46:34 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  
  
  

  
  
  
  Lets not discuss this one.   You have no grasp of what is being 
  said.   For example,  Paul 
  speaks of the Gentile and the Jew in this passage.   I ask a 
  question about the two, and you fire back that there is no longer Jew and 
  Gentile.   I must say, Judy,  that your line of reason has 
  markedly declined over the past year.   You have moved from being 
  simply difficult, to difficult to understand,  to just plain  
  ...   well  ..   I am not sure I have the words to 
  express it.  I will leave it at that.   
  
  
   
  From: Judy Taylor <jandgtaylor1@juno.com>To: 
  TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: 
  TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 13:14:40 
  -0500Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Law and Spirit
  

  
   
   
  On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 10:26:28 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  


Me 
again.  JD writes: You speak as if the Holy Sprit indwelling and the "..law written on their 
hearts" are two different things.   What exactly do you mean when 
you,  Judy Taylor, speak of the law written on your heart?   
Memorization or what?  


  
  
  
  
  
  No JD, 
  it's too much for the old unregenerated mind - the law is 
  spiritual - When we are in Christ and indwelt by the Spirit of Christ we like the ppl in Romans 2:14,15 do by nature 
  the things required by God's Law.
   
  You have not explained how your 
  version of legal inwardness is different from that of the OT 
  opportunity for same.   
   
  OT people had no Spirit of Christ indwelling them JD; they were to keep the Levitical Law along with God's moral 
  laws.
   
  Secondly, you  
  misunderstand Romans , chapter 2  (you meant 2:14-,15 correct 
  ?).  The "Gentiles" in that passage are not regenerated 
  anything. 
   
  There is no way an unregenerated person either OT or NT 
  is able to fulfill God's
  law "by nature" JD.  Read 
  about their natures in Ephesians 2.  Children of 
  wrath.
  Now tell me how you figure.  
  Makes no sense.  You are in Calvin's mode - OTOH
  saying unregenerate man is by nature totally 
  depraved and the next minute claiming that they can also "by nature" fulfill God's law - something only 
  Jesus
  had accomplished pre 
  Calvary.
   
  You only say that because your 
  bias orders you to do so.    
   
  If you want to call it that - OK 
  then.  My scriptural bias compels me to do 
  it.
   
  Look at what you say 
  !!    The "Gentile" (according to you) is anyone and 
  everyone who has the indwelling Holy Spirit.   He is one who has 
  received the new nature and , therefore, does by nature the things of the 
  Law.  
   
  Remember I did say the regenerated 
  gentile who is walking after the Spirit JD.
  Don't leave anything 
  out.
   
  So  --  who is the Jew 
  in this passage?   He is obviously not like the rest of 
  us.   If the Gentile is the Holy Ghost inhabited disciple of 
  God  -  who is this Jew guy? 
   
  He is either a disciple of Christ 
  who is also indwelt by the Spirit of 
  God - remember
  in Christ there is no Jew, Greek, 
  bond, or free.  All are one.  Or he is a legalistic
  Judaiser who is still under bondage to the sacrificial 
  law. 
   
  And , if the Gentile is the one 
  with the Holy Spirit, who does by nature the things of the Law  
  -   how is it that he might be lost  
  ("...   conscience either 
  excusing or accusing  .")?  
   
  That does not refer to saved/lost 
  JD.  When a Christian's conscience excuses them
  they go on their way 
  rejoicing.  When accused by the conscience it is time to go 
  to
  the throne of grace and do some 
  business with God.  Time to repent. 
   
   
  And what of 2:12?   The 
  "Gentile" in this passage, according to Judy, is the saved 
  individual  (having the indwelling Holy Spirit).   
  He is judged by one  standard   and  the 
  Jew  (Christian?) 
  is judged by 
  another.  
   
  I didn't say anything of the kind 
  JD.  The above is your construction and yours 
  alon

Re: [TruthTalk] Law and Spirit

[knpraise]

  -Original Message-From: KnpraiseTo: KnpraiseSent: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 23:42:20 -0500Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Law and Spirit





  


Lets not discuss this one.   You have no grasp of what is being said.   For example,  Paul speaks of the Gentile and the Jew in this passage.   I ask a question about the two, and you fire back that there is no longer Jew and Gentile.   I must say, Judy,  that your line of reason has markedly declined over the past year.   You have moved from being simply difficult, to difficult to understand,  to just plain  ...   well  ..   I am not sure I have the words to express it.  I will leave it at that.   
 
 -Original Message-From: Judy Taylor <jandgtaylor1@juno.com>To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 13:14:40 -0500Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Law and Spirit



 
 
On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 10:26:28 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:



Me again.  JD writes: You speak as if the Holy Sprit indwelling and the "..law written on their hearts" are two different things.   What exactly do you mean when you,  Judy Taylor, speak of the law written on your heart?   Memorization or what?  







No JD, it's too much for the old unregenerated mind - the law is spiritual - When we are in Christ and indwelt by the Spirit of Christ we like the ppl in Romans 2:14,15 do by nature the things required by God's Law.
 
You have not explained how your version of legal inwardness is different from that of the OT opportunity for same.   
 
OT people had no Spirit of Christ indwelling them JD; they were to keep the Levitical Law along with God's moral laws.
 
Secondly, you  misunderstand Romans , chapter 2  (you meant 2:14-,15 correct ?).  The "Gentiles" in that passage are not regenerated anything. 
 
There is no way an unregenerated person either OT or NT is able to fulfill God's
law "by nature" JD.  Read about their natures in Ephesians 2.  Children of wrath.
Now tell me how you figure.  Makes no sense.  You are in Calvin's mode - OTOH
saying unregenerate man is by nature totally depraved and the next minute claiming that they can also "by nature" fulfill God's law - something only Jesus
had accomplished pre Calvary.
 
You only say that because your bias orders you to do so.    
 
If you want to call it that - OK then.  My scriptural bias compels me to do it.
 
Look at what you say !!    The "Gentile" (according to you) is anyone and everyone who has the indwelling Holy Spirit.   He is one who has received the new nature and , therefore, does by nature the things of the Law.  
 
Remember I did say the regenerated gentile who is walking after the Spirit JD.
Don't leave anything out.
 
So  --  who is the Jew in this passage?   He is obviously not like the rest of us.   If the Gentile is the Holy Ghost inhabited disciple of God  -  who is this Jew guy? 
 
He is either a disciple of Christ who is also indwelt by the Spirit of God - remember
in Christ there is no Jew, Greek, bond, or free.  All are one.  Or he is a legalistic
Judaiser who is still under bondage to the sacrificial law. 
 
And , if the Gentile is the one with the Holy Spirit, who does by nature the things of the Law  -   how is it that he might be lost  ("...   conscience either excusing or accusing  .")?  
 
That does not refer to saved/lost JD.  When a Christian's conscience excuses them
they go on their way rejoicing.  When accused by the conscience it is time to go to
the throne of grace and do some business with God.  Time to repent. 
 
 
And what of 2:12?   The "Gentile" in this passage, according to Judy, is the saved individual  (having the indwelling Holy Spirit).   He is judged by one  standard   and  the Jew  (Christian?) is judged by another.  
 
I didn't say anything of the kind JD.  The above is your construction and yours alone
Please stop putting words in my mouth.  I can speak for myself, thank you.
 
It is so much easier to just accept the text for what it says.    
 
Yes, then you don't have to cut anything out or try to manipulate any passages.
 
 
 
What ever it means, we do know that it cannot be the same experience as those under the Mosaical Law.   Is it the Holy Spirit 's influence  -   but you make a difference between the two.   If this "law" has to do with various and multiple commandments,  how are they written on our hearts in a way different from the Old Law?   I honestly have no idea how you might answer this question.   I have no answer and that is why I reject (up to this point in time) the notion that the "law written on our hearts"  is talking about law as opposed to the rule of the Spirit.  jd
 
Careful JD, if you reject everything in scripture that you don't comprehend mentally then pretty soon you will have to throw out the whole Book.   jt I can't reject what I don't comprehe

Re: [TruthTalk] Law and Spirit

[Judy Taylor]

 
 
On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 10:26:28 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  
  
  Me again.  JD 
  writes: You speak as if the Holy Sprit indwelling and the "..law written on 
  their hearts" are two different things.   What exactly do you mean 
  when you,  Judy Taylor, speak of the law written on your 
  heart?   Memorization or what? 
  
  





No JD, 
it's too much for the old unregenerated 
mind - the law is spiritual - When we are in Christ and indwelt by the Spirit of Christ we like the ppl in Romans 2:14,15 do by nature the things required by 
God's Law.
 
You have not explained how your 
version of legal inwardness is different from that of the OT opportunity for same.   

 
OT people had no Spirit of 
Christ indwelling them JD; they were to keep the Levitical Law along with 
God's moral laws.
 
Secondly, you  
misunderstand Romans , chapter 2  (you meant 2:14-,15 correct 
?).  The "Gentiles" in that passage are not regenerated 
anything. 
 
There is no way an unregenerated 
person either OT or NT is able to fulfill God's
law "by nature" JD.  Read about 
their natures in Ephesians 2.  Children of wrath.
Now tell me how you figure.  
Makes no sense.  You are in Calvin's mode - 
OTOH
saying unregenerate man is by 
nature totally depraved and the next minute claiming that 
they can also "by nature" fulfill 
God's law - something only Jesus
had accomplished pre 
Calvary.
 
You only say that because your bias 
orders you to do so.    
 
If you want to call it that - OK 
then.  My scriptural bias compels me to do 
it.
 
Look at what you say 
!!    The "Gentile" (according to you) is anyone and everyone 
who has the indwelling Holy 
Spirit.   He is one who has received the new nature and , 
therefore, does by nature the things of the Law.  

 
Remember I did say the regenerated 
gentile who is walking after the Spirit JD.
Don't leave anything 
out.
 
So  --  who is the Jew in 
this passage?   He is obviously not like the rest of 
us.   If the Gentile is the Holy Ghost inhabited disciple of 
God  -  who is this Jew guy? 
 
He is either a disciple of Christ 
who is also indwelt by the Spirit of God - remember
in Christ there is no Jew, Greek, 
bond, or free.  All are one.  Or he is a 
legalistic
Judaiser who is still under bondage 
to the sacrificial law. 
 
And , if the Gentile is the one 
with the Holy Spirit, who does by nature the things of the Law  
-   how is it that he might be lost  
("...   conscience either 
excusing or accusing  .")?  
 
That does not refer to saved/lost 
JD.  When a Christian's conscience excuses them
they go on their way 
rejoicing.  When accused by the conscience it is time to go 
to
the throne of grace and do some 
business with God.  Time to repent. 
 
 
And what of 2:12?   The 
"Gentile" in this passage, according to Judy, is the saved individual  
(having the indwelling Holy 
Spirit).   He is judged by 
one  standard   and  the 
Jew  (Christian?) 
is judged by 
another.  
 
I didn't say anything of the kind 
JD.  The above is your construction and yours 
alone
Please stop putting words in my 
mouth.  I can speak for myself, thank you.
 
It is so much easier to just accept 
the text for what it says.    
 
Yes, then you don't have to cut 
anything out or try to manipulate any passages.
 
 
 
What ever it means, we do know that it cannot be the same 
experience as those under the Mosaical Law.   Is it the 
Holy Spirit 's influence  -   but you make a difference 
between the two.   If this "law" has to do with various and 
multiple commandments,  how are they written on our hearts in a way 
different from the Old Law?   I honestly have no idea how you 
might answer this question.   I have no answer 
and that is why I reject (up to this point in time) the notion that the "law 
written on our hearts"  is talking about law as opposed to the 
rule of the Spirit.  jd
 
Careful JD, if you reject everything in scripture that 
you don't comprehend mentally then pretty soon you will have to throw out the whole 
Book.   jt I can't 
reject what I don't comprehend,   Judy.    You are 
such an avowed anti-intellectual that it is scary.    And, 
what is almost funny about your anti-intellectual stance is that you rely so 
much on your own   brand of intellectualism.    It is startling to me, 
just how little you use scripture   to get from point A to 
point B.   "Discernment," my dear,  is the single most 
lacking quality you possess!!!   



In OT days they did not have

Re: [TruthTalk] Law and Spirit

[knpraise]

So the Jew , in Ro 2, is the one who is lost?  !!  I mean, he is not doing the law "by nature."  Crazy.  -Original Message-From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 05:45:07 -0500Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Law and Spirit



Oophs, typo, I meant Romans 2:14,15.  When we become partakers of the 'divine nature' by the indwelling
of the Holy Spirit we are enabled to do by nature what is required by God's Law.  That is, when we choose
to walk after the Spirit rather than follow the lusts of the old flesh nature.

Re: [TruthTalk] Law and Spirit

[knpraise]

Me again.  -Original Message-From: Judy Taylor <jandgtaylor1@juno.com>To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 23:10:54 -0500Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Law and Spirit



 
 
On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 17:44:07 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:








You speak as if the Holy Sprit indwelling and the "..law written on their hearts" are two different things.   
What exactly do you mean when you,  Judy Taylor, speak of the law written on your heart?   Memorization or what? 
 
No JD, it's too much for the old unregenerated mind - the law is spiritual - When we are in Christ and indwelt by the Spirit of Christ we like the ppl in Romans 1:14,15 do by nature the things required by God's Law.
 
You have not explained how your version of legal inwardness is different from that of the OT opportunity for same.   Secondly, you  misunderstand Romans , chapter 2  (you meant 2:14-,15 correct ?).  The "Gentiles" in that passage are not regenerated anything.   You only say that because your bias orders you to do so.    
 
Look at what you say !!    The "Gentile" (according to you) is anyone and everyone who has the indwelling Holy Spirit.   He is one who has received the new nature and , therefore, does by nature the things of the Law.  
 
So  --  who is the Jew in this passage?   He is obviously not like the rest of us.   If the Gentile is the Holy Ghost inhabited disciple of God  -  who is this Jew guy?  And , if the Gentile is the one with the Holy Spirit, who does by nature the things of the Law  -   how is it that he might be lost  ("...   conscience either excusing or accusing  .")?   And what of 2:12?   The "Gentile" in this passage, according to Judy, is the saved individual  (having the indwelling Holy Spirit).   He is judged by one  standard   and  the Jew  (Christian?) is judged by another.  
 
It is so much easier to just accept the text for what it says.    
 
 
 
What ever it means, we do know that it cannot be the same experience as those under the Mosaical Law.   Is it the Holy Spirit 's influence  -   but you make a difference between the two.   If this "law" has to do with various and multiple commandments,  how are they written on our hearts in a way different from the Old Law?   I honestly have no idea how you might answer this question.   I have no answer and that is why I reject (up to this point in time) the notion that the "law written on our hearts"  is talking about law as opposed to the rule of the Spirit.  jd
 
Careful JD, if you reject everything in scripture that you don't comprehend mentally then pretty soon you will have to throw out the whole Book.   jt I can't reject what I don't comprehend,   Judy.    You are such an avowed anti-intellectual that it is scary.    And, what is almost funny about your anti-intellectual stance is that you rely so much on your own   brand of intellectualism.    It is startling to me, just how little you use scripture   to get from point A to point B.   "Discernment," my dear,  is the single most lacking quality you possess!!!   



In OT days they did not have the Holy Spirit indwelling them, nor did they have
God's Law written on their hearts.  They lived in a theocracy and Moses had to 
gather the ppl, men, women, and children and read God's Law to them every
seven years.  jt
 
 
On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 19:21:12 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:



  
How is this different from OT days   
Yes we now have God's Law written on our hearts   ???
 
jd
 
  

Re: [TruthTalk] Law and Spirit

[Judy Taylor]

Oophs, typo, I meant Romans 2:14,15.  When we 
become partakers of the 'divine nature' by the indwelling
of the Holy Spirit we are enabled to do by nature what 
is required by God's Law.  That is, when we choose
to walk after the Spirit rather than follow the lusts 
of the old flesh nature.

  On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 17:44:07 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  







You speak as if the Holy Sprit 
indwelling and the "..law written on 
their hearts" are two different things.   
What exactly do you mean when you,  Judy Taylor, speak of the law 
written on your heart?   Memorization or what? 
 
No JD, it's too much for the old 
unregenerated mind - the law is spiritual - When we are in Christ and 
indwelt by the Spirit of Christ we like 
the ppl in Romans 2:14,15 do by nature the things required by God's 
Law.
 
What ever it means, we do know that it cannot be the same 
experience as those under the Mosaical Law.   Is it the Holy Spirit 's 
influence  -   but you make a difference between the 
two.   If this "law" has to do with various and multiple 
commandments,  how are they written on our hearts in a way different 
from the Old Law?   I honestly have no idea how you might answer 
this question.   I have no answer and that is 
why I reject (up to this point in time) the notion that the "law written on 
our hearts"  is talking about law as opposed to the rule of the 
Spirit.  jd
 
Careful JD, if you 
reject everything in scripture that you don't comprehend mentally then 
pretty soon you will have to throw out the whole Book.   
jt From: Judy Taylor 



In OT days they 
did not have the Holy Spirit indwelling 
them, nor did they have
God's Law written on their hearts.  They lived 
in a theocracy and Moses had to 
gather the ppl, 
men, women, and children and read God's Law to 
them every
seven years.  jt
 
 
On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 19:21:12 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  
  
    
  How is this different from OT 
  days   
  Yes we now have God's Law written on our hearts   ???
   
  jd
   
    -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Thu, 08 Dec 
  2005 11:11:07 -0500Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is Judas going to 
  Heaven?
  

  
  
  
   
  How is this different from OT 
  days   
  Yes we now have God's Law written on our hearts   ???
   
  jd
   
   
   
  -Original Message-From: Judy Taylor 
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: 
  TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 05:09:54 
  -0500Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is Judas going to Heaven?
  

  
  Why do we need scripture?  
  Yes the born again/spirit filled believer is 
  given the measure of faith - 
  Yes we now have God's Law written on our hearts 
  But let's look at our example, the Head of the 
  Church, the one we are to follow 
  During His earthly ministry Jesus walked in all 
  this too; in fact He walked in the fulness of the Spirit  
  When confronted by the adversary - What was His 
  defense?  It is written, It is written, It is written.
  No wonder the professing church is so weak.  
  You would rather do it any way but learn from Him.
   
  If anyone speaks not according 
  to THIS WORD there is no light of day for him (Isa 8:20)
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
  


  
  
  You haven't read the book either !!!   This is what is 
  so great about you and Judy.   First --  
  you two disagree on a number of 
  points  -- but, like you, I will ignore that for 
  time being.   In addition to the Inspired Version 
  doctrine, and the Inerrant Understanding 
  didache,  you two also believe that 
  you can condemn a book without having read it , not to mention that 
  you know of the personal judgments of God.  With those 
  qualifications,  why do we even need the 
  Bible?   We certainly don't need preachers, pastors 
  and teacher  --  I mean the Holy Spirit will take care of 
  all that -  right?  But ignore these questions, as well.   Your peace of mind just 
  migh t be at stake.    
   
  jd  
 -
    
judyt    
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His 
Commandments  
is a liar (1 John 2:4)
  
  judyt    
  He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His 
  Comma

Re: [TruthTalk] Law and Spirit

[Judy Taylor]

 
 
On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 17:44:07 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  
  
  

  
  
  
  You speak as if the Holy Sprit indwelling and the "..law written on their 
  hearts" are two different things.   
  What exactly do you mean when you,  Judy Taylor, speak of the law 
  written on your heart?   Memorization or what? 
   
  No JD, it's too much for the old unregenerated 
  mind - the law is spiritual - When we are in Christ and indwelt by 
  the Spirit of Christ we like the ppl in 
  Romans 1:14,15 do by nature the things required by God's 
Law.
   
  What ever it means, we do know that it cannot be the same 
  experience as those under the Mosaical Law.   Is it the Holy Spirit 's 
  influence  -   but you make a difference between the 
  two.   If this "law" has to do with various and multiple 
  commandments,  how are they written on our hearts in a way different from 
  the Old Law?   I honestly have no idea how you might answer this 
  question.   I have no answer and that is why I 
  reject (up to this point in time) the notion that the "law written on our 
  hearts"  is talking about law as opposed to the rule of the 
  Spirit.  jd
   
  Careful JD, if you 
  reject everything in scripture that you don't comprehend mentally then pretty 
  soon you will have to throw out the whole Book.   
  jt From: Judy Taylor 
  

  
  In OT days they 
  did not have the Holy Spirit indwelling 
  them, nor did they have
  God's Law written on their hearts.  They lived 
  in a theocracy and Moses had to 
  gather the ppl, 
  men, women, and children and read God's Law to them 
  every
  seven years.  jt
   
   
  On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 19:21:12 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  


  
How is this different from OT 
days   
Yes we now have God's Law written on our hearts   ???
 
jd
 
  -Original Message-From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Thu, 08 Dec 
2005 11:11:07 -0500Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is Judas going to 
Heaven?





 
How is this different from OT 
days   
Yes we now have God's Law written on our hearts   ???
 
jd
 
 
 
-Original Message-From: Judy Taylor 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 05:09:54 
-0500Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is Judas going to Heaven?



Why do we need scripture?  
Yes the born again/spirit filled believer is given 
the measure of faith - 
Yes we now have God's Law written on our hearts 
But let's look at our example, the Head of the 
Church, the one we are to follow 
During His earthly ministry Jesus walked in all 
this too; in fact He walked in the fulness of the Spirit  
When confronted by the adversary - What was His 
defense?  It is written, It is written, It is written.
No wonder the professing church is so weak.  
You would rather do it any way but learn from Him.
 
If anyone speaks not according to 
THIS WORD there is no light of day for him (Isa 8:20)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

  
  


You haven't read the book either !!!   This is what is so 
great about you and Judy.   First --  
you two disagree on a number of 
points  -- but, like you, I will ignore that for 
time being.   In addition to the Inspired Version 
doctrine, and the Inerrant Understanding didache,  you two also believe that 
you can condemn a book without having read it , not to mention that you 
know of the personal judgments of God.  With those 
qualifications,  why do we even need the 
Bible?   We certainly don't need preachers, pastors and 
teacher  --  I mean the Holy Spirit will take care of all that 
-  right?  But ignore these questions, as well.   Your peace of mind just 
migh t be at stake.    
 
jd  
   -
  
  judyt    
  He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His 
  Commandments  
  is a liar (1 John 2:4)
    
judyt    
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His 
Commandments  
is a liar (1 John 2:4)

Re: [TruthTalk] Law and Spirit

[knpraise]

  -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 22:15:16 -0500Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is Judas going to Heaven?





You speak as if the Holy Sprit indwelling and the "..law written on their hearts" are two different things.   What exactly do you mean when you,  Judy Taylor, speak of the law written on your heart?   Memorization or what?   What ever it means, we do know that it cannot be the same experience as those under the Mosaical Law.   Is it the Holy Spirit 's influence  -   but you make a difference between the two.   If this "law" has to do with various and multiple commandments,  how are they written on our hearts in a way different from the Old Law?   I honestly have no idea how you might answer this question.   I have no answer and that is why I reject (up to this point in time) the notion that the "law written on our hearts"  is talking about law as opposed to the rule of the Spirit.  
 
jd -Original Message-From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 20:46:30 -0500Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is Judas going to Heaven?



In OT days they did not have the Holy Spirit indwelling them, nor did they have
God's Law written on their hearts.  They lived in a theocracy and Moses had to 
gather the ppl, men, women, and children and read God's Law to them every
seven years.  jt
 
 
On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 19:21:12 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:



  
How is this different from OT days   
Yes we now have God's Law written on our hearts   ???
 
jd
 
  -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 11:11:07 -0500Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is Judas going to Heaven?





 
How is this different from OT days   
Yes we now have God's Law written on our hearts   ???
 
jd
 
 
 
-Original Message-From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 05:09:54 -0500Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is Judas going to Heaven?



Why do we need scripture?  
Yes the born again/spirit filled believer is given the measure of faith - 
Yes we now have God's Law written on our hearts 
But let's look at our example, the Head of the Church, the one we are to follow 
During His earthly ministry Jesus walked in all this too; in fact He walked in the fulness of the Spirit  
When confronted by the adversary - What was His defense?  It is written, It is written, It is written.
No wonder the professing church is so weak.  You would rather do it any way but learn from Him.
 
If anyone speaks not according to THIS WORD there is no light of day for him (Isa 8:20)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 





You haven't read the book either !!!   This is what is so great about you and Judy.   First --  you two disagree on a number of points  -- but, like you, I will ignore that for time being.   In addition to the Inspired Version doctrine, and the Inerrant Understanding didache,  you two also believe that you can condemn a book without having read it , not to mention that you know of the personal judgments of God.  With those qualifications,  why do we even need the Bible?   We certainly don't need preachers, pastors and teacher  --  I mean the Holy Spirit will take care of all that -  right?  But ignore these questions, as well.   Your peace of mind just migh
 t be at stake.    
 
jd   -
  judyt    He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments  is a liar (1 John 2:4)