Re: [TruthTalk] Reconciliation to the Father through Christ (JD)
On Sat, 7 Jan 2006 14:38:05 -0700 "Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Perry doesn't seem to want to get involved period. That
aside, I said it like l did because I meant it that much.
Don't you think it more than a little arrogant
Bill; after all this is not your classroom.
You've ended dozens of discussions with this kind of ad hom
garbage. People finally just wear out and give up.
It people means you Bill, yes you do take off
and go home early on. Worn out? You don't have much stamina I
guess.
JD just hangs in there Ad hom
garbage? Nothing I write could be described this way and this is ad hom
in itself.
In the meantime the real issues are almost always lost. Who
gives a damn if an idea comes from me or you or the church fathers?
IS IT TRUE? -- that is the question. We are not here to
discuss personalities, but the truthfulness of "issues."
I'm not discussing personalities. You
and Lance and Debbie S. are busy doing this.
Talk about ideas, Judy; talk about issues; leave the
people behind them alone. Either that or embrace the fact that on most of
these issues, it is you who is the
heretic.
Gladly Bill, except that you keep resurrecting
them. I would love to stick with scripture and let the dead along with
their
ideas - and their actions RIP until the time
of the great whitethrone judgment...
Bill
From: Judy Taylor
From my side Bill, it is also offensive and
wearisome when ppl want to constantly strive over these issues.
Why do you say "don't do it again" as though I am
your child - are you an up and coming moderator?
Perry would not speak like this to another
believer.
On Sat, 7 Jan 2006 10:41:31 -0700 "Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
"I don't accuse you ..."
"You are constantly
striving over these 'Jesus is God' and 'Eternal Son' issues to try to conform scripture to the
teachings of the Church Fathers ..."
This, Judy, is an accusation. It is offensive and
wearisome. Don't do it again.
Bill
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006
9:51 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Reconciliation to the Father through Christ (JD)
This is just plain silly Bill but then I guess
it is no sillier than the Church Fathers chasing down men they claim are
made
in the image of God
to kill them over a doctrinal dispute like there is no Holy Spirit
and no God in heaven who clearly
says "Vengeance is mine, I will repay" I
don't accuse you but rather identify your stand in certain areas as
being rooted
in their teaching and if you agree that this is
so. OK. I probably would be considered a heretic
by your mentors but
they have no say in my eternal destiny and I
don't hold their evaluation in any esteem so
No, calling me a heretic is not
all right and I am not willing to
compromise. judyt
On Sat, 7 Jan 2006 09:32:17 -0700 "Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
I'll tell you what, Judy, your constant accusation
that we (John, Lance, myself, et al) are conforming to the Church
fathers, is nothing but an ad hom and needs to stop, so we can get on
to discussing the truth of this matter. How about a compromise? We'll
be content to accept your charge against us, that we embrace
Orthodoxy on this subject, the stated confession of the Church
throughout the ages; if you'll accept the opposite and embrace the
fact that you are therefore a heretic -- by the same confession of
course! That way, when we discuss God, we'll know who among us are
orthodox in our beliefs and who heretical, and we won't need to get
into silly and pointless ad hominem arguments. Is that all right with
you?
We'll be the orthodox group and you the heretic: a
compromise! Are you willing to do that?
Bill
- Original Message -
From:
Judy Taylor
To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Saturday, January 07,
2006 4:12 AM
Subject: [TruthTalk]
Reconciliatio
Re: [TruthTalk] Reconciliation to the Father through Christ (JD)
Perry doesn't seem to want to get involved period. That aside, I said it like l did because I meant it that much. You've ended dozens of discussions with this kind of ad hom garbage. People finally just wear out and give up. In the meantime the real issues are almost always lost. Who gives a damn if an idea comes from me or you or the church fathers? IS IT TRUE? -- that is the question. We are not here to discuss personalities, but the truthfulness of "issues." Talk about ideas, Judy; talk about issues; leave the people behind them alone. Either that or embrace the fact that on most of these issues, it is you who is the heretic. Bill - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Reconciliation to the Father through Christ (JD) From my side Bill, it is also offensive and wearisome when ppl want to constantly strive over these issues. Why do you say "don't do it again" as though I am your child - are you an up and coming moderator? Perry would not speak like this to another believer. On Sat, 7 Jan 2006 10:41:31 -0700 "Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: "I don't accuse you ..." "You are constantly striving over these 'Jesus is God' and 'Eternal Son' issues to try to conform scripture to the teachings of the Church Fathers ..." This, Judy, is an accusation. It is offensive and wearisome. Don't do it again. Bill - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 9:51 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Reconciliation to the Father through Christ (JD) This is just plain silly Bill but then I guess it is no sillier than the Church Fathers chasing down men they claim are made in the image of God to kill them over a doctrinal dispute like there is no Holy Spirit and no God in heaven who clearly says "Vengeance is mine, I will repay" I don't accuse you but rather identify your stand in certain areas as being rooted in their teaching and if you agree that this is so. OK. I probably would be considered a heretic by your mentors but they have no say in my eternal destiny and I don't hold their evaluation in any esteem so No, calling me a heretic is not all right and I am not willing to compromise. judyt On Sat, 7 Jan 2006 09:32:17 -0700 "Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: I'll tell you what, Judy, your constant accusation that we (John, Lance, myself, et al) are conforming to the Church fathers, is nothing but an ad hom and needs to stop, so we can get on to discussing the truth of this matter. How about a compromise? We'll be content to accept your charge against us, that we embrace Orthodoxy on this subject, the stated confession of the Church throughout the ages; if you'll accept the opposite and embrace the fact that you are therefore a heretic -- by the same confession of course! That way, when we discuss God, we'll know who among us are orthodox in our beliefs and who heretical, and we won't need to get into silly and pointless ad hominem arguments. Is that all right with you? We'll be the orthodox group and you the heretic: a compromise! Are you willing to do that? Bill - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 4:12 AM Subject: [TruthTalk] Reconciliation to the Father through Christ (JD) JD, I may be mistaken but I get the idea you are constantly striving over these "Jesus is God" and "Eternal Son" issues to try to conform scripture to the teachings of the Church Fathers or what is known as "Orthodoxy" extra Biblical teachings that have been handed down generationally. Why not submit oneself to God's Word and allow Him to give you understanding. You know how every word is established by two or more scriptural witnesses? Well here is another witness to the truth of Col 1:19. "It was God (
Re: [TruthTalk] Reconciliation to the Father through Christ (JD)
Jack Benny couldn't have said it better !! :--) What do you say, Judy. I'M IN on this one jd -- Original message -- From: "Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I'll tell you what, Judy, your constant accusation that we (John, Lance, myself, et al) are conforming to the Church fathers, is nothing but an ad hom and needs to stop, so we can get on to discussing the truth of this matter. How about a compromise? We'll be content to accept your charge against us, that we embrace Orthodoxy on this subject, the stated confession of the Church throughout the ages; if you'll accept the opposite and embrace the fact that you are therefore a heretic -- by the same confession of course! That way, when we discuss God, we'll know who among us are orthodox in our beliefs and who heretical, and we won't need to get into silly and pointless ad hominem arguments. Is that all right with you? We'll be the orthodox group and you the heretic: a compromise! Are you willing to do that? Bill - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 4:12 AM Subject: [TruthTalk] Reconciliation to the Father through Christ (JD) JD, I may be mistaken but I get the idea you are constantly striving over these "Jesus is God" and "Eternal Son" issues to try to conform scripture to the teachings of the Church Fathers or what is known as "Orthodoxy" extra Biblical teachings that have been handed down generationally. Why not submit oneself to God's Word and allow Him to give you understanding. You know how every word is established by two or more scriptural witnesses? Well here is another witness to the truth of Col 1:19. "It was God (personally present in Christ), reconciling and restoring the world to favor with Himself, not counting up and holding against (men) their trespasses (but cancelling them) and committing to us the message of reconciliation (of the restoration to favor)." (2 Cor 5:19) Amp Notice it does not say it was Christ as God who reconciled the world to himself? The Holy Spirit is part of the Godhead - He is equal to both Father and Son; Jesus as son of man walked in His fullness. So tell me, what is wrong with just allowing God to be God and allowing His Word to reveal His intent to this generation? We don't want to repeat Israel's error ... you know the stiff neck syndrome...-- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Plains.Net, and is believed to be clean.
Re: [TruthTalk] Reconciliation to the Father through Christ (JD)
- Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 1/7/2006 12:36:18 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Reconciliation to the Father through Christ (JD) Probably so Dean but I am not convinced that either of these will stand through the fire in that day themselves. Just like Bob Dylan they should have been examining themselves rather than trying to be the standard and condemning all those who did not measure up to their plumbline. cd: There is wisdom in you words Judy as I do not believe these groups will travail the fires either-I also have been called a heretic by Baptist but count it as gain-and still smile at their words:-) On Sat, 7 Jan 2006 11:53:54 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Cd: Judy by Catholic and Calvinist standards you would fit the profile of a heretic:-) From: Taylor I'll tell you what, Judy, your constant accusation that we (John, Lance, myself, et al) are conforming to the Church fathers, is nothing but an ad hom and needs to stop, so we can get on to discussing the truth of this matter. How about a compromise? We'll be content to accept your charge against us, that we embrace Orthodoxy on this subject, the stated confession of the Church throughout the ages; if you'll accept the opposite and embrace the fact that you are therefore a heretic -- by the same confession of course! That way, when we discuss God, we'll know who among us are orthodox in our beliefs and who heretical, and we won't need to get into silly and pointless ad hominem arguments. Is that all right with you? We'll be the orthodox group and you the heretic: a compromise! Are you willing to do that? Bill From: Judy Taylor JD, I may be mistaken but I get the idea you are constantly striving over these "Jesus is God" and "Eternal Son" issues to try to conform scripture to the teachings of the Church Fathers or what is known as "Orthodoxy" extra Biblical teachings that have been handed down generationally. Why not submit oneself to God's Word and allow Him to give you understanding. You know how every word is established by two or more scriptural witnesses? Well here is another witness to the truth of Col 1:19. "It was God (personally present in Christ), reconciling and restoring the world to favor with Himself, not counting up and holding against (men) their trespasses (but cancelling them) and committing to us the message of reconciliation (of the restoration to favor)." (2 Cor 5:19) Amp Notice it does not say it was Christ as God who reconciled the world to himself? The Holy Spirit is part of the Godhead - He is equal to both Father and Son; Jesus as son of man walked in His fullness. So tell me, what is wrong with just allowing God to be God and allowing His Word to reveal His intent to this generation? We don't want to repeat Israel's error ... you know the stiff neck syndrome...-- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Plains.Net, and is believed to be clean.
Re: [TruthTalk] Reconciliation to the Father through Christ (JD)
From my side Bill, it is also offensive and wearisome
when ppl want to constantly strive over these issues.
Why do you say "don't do it again" as though I am your
child - are you an up and coming moderator?
Perry would not speak like this to another
believer.
On Sat, 7 Jan 2006 10:41:31 -0700 "Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
"I don't accuse you ..."
"You are constantly
striving over these 'Jesus is God' and 'Eternal Son' issues to try to conform scripture to the teachings
of the Church Fathers ..."
This, Judy, is an accusation. It is offensive and wearisome.
Don't do it again.
Bill
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 9:51
AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Reconciliation
to the Father through Christ (JD)
This is just plain silly Bill but then I guess it
is no sillier than the Church Fathers chasing down men they claim are made
in the image of God to
kill them over a doctrinal dispute like there is no Holy Spirit and no
God in heaven who clearly
says "Vengeance is mine, I will repay" I
don't accuse you but rather identify your stand in certain areas as being
rooted
in their teaching and if you agree that this is
so. OK. I probably would be considered a heretic by
your mentors but
they have no say in my eternal destiny and I don't
hold their evaluation in any esteem so No,
calling me a heretic is not
all right and I am not willing to compromise.
judyt
On Sat, 7 Jan 2006 09:32:17 -0700 "Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
I'll tell you what, Judy, your constant accusation that
we (John, Lance, myself, et al) are conforming to the Church fathers, is
nothing but an ad hom and needs to stop, so we can get on to discussing
the truth of this matter. How about a compromise? We'll be content to
accept your charge against us, that we embrace Orthodoxy on this
subject, the stated confession of the Church throughout the ages; if
you'll accept the opposite and embrace the fact that you are therefore a
heretic -- by the same confession of course! That way, when we discuss
God, we'll know who among us are orthodox in our beliefs and who
heretical, and we won't need to get into silly and pointless ad hominem
arguments. Is that all right with you?
We'll be the orthodox group and you the heretic: a
compromise! Are you willing to do that?
Bill
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006
4:12 AM
Subject: [TruthTalk] Reconciliation
to the Father through Christ (JD)
JD,
I may be mistaken but I get the idea you are
constantly striving over these "Jesus is God" and
"Eternal Son" issues to try to conform
scripture to the teachings of the Church Fathers or what
is known as "Orthodoxy" extra Biblical
teachings that have been handed down generationally.
Why not submit oneself to God's Word and
allow Him to give you understanding.
You know how
every word is established by two or more
scriptural witnesses? Well here is another
witness to
the truth of Col 1:19.
"It was God (personally present in Christ),
reconciling and restoring the world to favor with Himself,
not
counting up and holding against (men) their
trespasses (but cancelling them) and committing to us
the message of reconciliation (of the
restoration to favor)." (2 Cor 5:19) Amp
Notice it does not say it was Christ
as God who reconciled the world to
himself?
The Holy Spirit is part of the Godhead - He is
equal to both Father and Son; Jesus as son of man
walked in His fullness. So tell me, what
is wrong with just allowing God to be God and allowing His
Word to reveal His
intent to this generation? We don't want to repeat Israel's error
... you know the
stiff neck syndrome...--
This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content
by Plains.Net, and is
believed to be clean.
-- This message has been scanned for
viruses and dangerous content by Plains.Net, and is believed to
be clean.
Re: [TruthTalk] Reconciliation to the Father through Christ (JD)
Probably so Dean but I am not convinced that either of these will stand through the fire in that day themselves. Just like Bob Dylan they should have been examining themselves rather than trying to be the standard and condemning all those who did not measure up to their plumbline. On Sat, 7 Jan 2006 11:53:54 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Cd: Judy by Catholic and Calvinist standards you would fit the profile of a heretic:-) From: Taylor I'll tell you what, Judy, your constant accusation that we (John, Lance, myself, et al) are conforming to the Church fathers, is nothing but an ad hom and needs to stop, so we can get on to discussing the truth of this matter. How about a compromise? We'll be content to accept your charge against us, that we embrace Orthodoxy on this subject, the stated confession of the Church throughout the ages; if you'll accept the opposite and embrace the fact that you are therefore a heretic -- by the same confession of course! That way, when we discuss God, we'll know who among us are orthodox in our beliefs and who heretical, and we won't need to get into silly and pointless ad hominem arguments. Is that all right with you? We'll be the orthodox group and you the heretic: a compromise! Are you willing to do that? Bill From: Judy Taylor JD, I may be mistaken but I get the idea you are constantly striving over these "Jesus is God" and "Eternal Son" issues to try to conform scripture to the teachings of the Church Fathers or what is known as "Orthodoxy" extra Biblical teachings that have been handed down generationally. Why not submit oneself to God's Word and allow Him to give you understanding. You know how every word is established by two or more scriptural witnesses? Well here is another witness to the truth of Col 1:19. "It was God (personally present in Christ), reconciling and restoring the world to favor with Himself, not counting up and holding against (men) their trespasses (but cancelling them) and committing to us the message of reconciliation (of the restoration to favor)." (2 Cor 5:19) Amp Notice it does not say it was Christ as God who reconciled the world to himself? The Holy Spirit is part of the Godhead - He is equal to both Father and Son; Jesus as son of man walked in His fullness. So tell me, what is wrong with just allowing God to be God and allowing His Word to reveal His intent to this generation? We don't want to repeat Israel's error ... you know the stiff neck syndrome...-- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Plains.Net, and is believed to be clean.
Re: [TruthTalk] Reconciliation to the Father through Christ (JD)
"I don't accuse you ..." "You are constantly striving over these 'Jesus is God' and 'Eternal Son' issues to try to conform scripture to the teachings of the Church Fathers ..." This, Judy, is an accusation. It is offensive and wearisome. Don't do it again. Bill - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 9:51 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Reconciliation to the Father through Christ (JD) This is just plain silly Bill but then I guess it is no sillier than the Church Fathers chasing down men they claim are made in the image of God to kill them over a doctrinal dispute like there is no Holy Spirit and no God in heaven who clearly says "Vengeance is mine, I will repay" I don't accuse you but rather identify your stand in certain areas as being rooted in their teaching and if you agree that this is so. OK. I probably would be considered a heretic by your mentors but they have no say in my eternal destiny and I don't hold their evaluation in any esteem so No, calling me a heretic is not all right and I am not willing to compromise. judyt On Sat, 7 Jan 2006 09:32:17 -0700 "Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: I'll tell you what, Judy, your constant accusation that we (John, Lance, myself, et al) are conforming to the Church fathers, is nothing but an ad hom and needs to stop, so we can get on to discussing the truth of this matter. How about a compromise? We'll be content to accept your charge against us, that we embrace Orthodoxy on this subject, the stated confession of the Church throughout the ages; if you'll accept the opposite and embrace the fact that you are therefore a heretic -- by the same confession of course! That way, when we discuss God, we'll know who among us are orthodox in our beliefs and who heretical, and we won't need to get into silly and pointless ad hominem arguments. Is that all right with you? We'll be the orthodox group and you the heretic: a compromise! Are you willing to do that? Bill - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 4:12 AM Subject: [TruthTalk] Reconciliation to the Father through Christ (JD) JD, I may be mistaken but I get the idea you are constantly striving over these "Jesus is God" and "Eternal Son" issues to try to conform scripture to the teachings of the Church Fathers or what is known as "Orthodoxy" extra Biblical teachings that have been handed down generationally. Why not submit oneself to God's Word and allow Him to give you understanding. You know how every word is established by two or more scriptural witnesses? Well here is another witness to the truth of Col 1:19. "It was God (personally present in Christ), reconciling and restoring the world to favor with Himself, not counting up and holding against (men) their trespasses (but cancelling them) and committing to us the message of reconciliation (of the restoration to favor)." (2 Cor 5:19) Amp Notice it does not say it was Christ as God who reconciled the world to himself? The Holy Spirit is part of the Godhead - He is equal to both Father and Son; Jesus as son of man walked in His fullness. So tell me, what is wrong with just allowing God to be God and allowing His Word to reveal His intent to this generation? We don't want to repeat Israel's error ... you know the stiff neck syndrome...-- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Plains.Net, and is believed to be clean. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Plains.Net, and is believed to be clean.
Re: [TruthTalk] Reconciliation to the Father through Christ (JD)
By the way, Judy, I was serious about this. - Original Message - From: Dean Moore - Original Message - From: Taylor I'll tell you what, Judy, your constant accusation that we (John, Lance, myself, et al) are conforming to the Church fathers, is nothing but an ad hom and needs to stop, so we can get on to discussing the truth of this matter. How about a compromise? We'll be content to accept your charge against us, that we embrace Orthodoxy on this subject, the stated confession of the Church throughout the ages; if you'll accept the opposite and embrace the fact that you are therefore a heretic -- by the same confession of course! That way, when we discuss God, we'll know who among us are orthodox in our beliefs and who heretical, and we won't need to get into silly and pointless ad hominem arguments. Is that all right with you? We'll be the orthodox group and you the heretic: a compromise! Are you willing to do that? Cd: Judy by Catholic and Calvinist standards you would fit the profile of a heretic:-) Bill
Re: [TruthTalk] Reconciliation to the Father through Christ (JD)
This is just plain silly Bill but then I guess it is no sillier than the Church Fathers chasing down men they claim are made in the image of God to kill them over a doctrinal dispute like there is no Holy Spirit and no God in heaven who clearly says "Vengeance is mine, I will repay" I don't accuse you but rather identify your stand in certain areas as being rooted in their teaching and if you agree that this is so. OK. I probably would be considered a heretic by your mentors but they have no say in my eternal destiny and I don't hold their evaluation in any esteem so No, calling me a heretic is not all right and I am not willing to compromise. judyt On Sat, 7 Jan 2006 09:32:17 -0700 "Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: I'll tell you what, Judy, your constant accusation that we (John, Lance, myself, et al) are conforming to the Church fathers, is nothing but an ad hom and needs to stop, so we can get on to discussing the truth of this matter. How about a compromise? We'll be content to accept your charge against us, that we embrace Orthodoxy on this subject, the stated confession of the Church throughout the ages; if you'll accept the opposite and embrace the fact that you are therefore a heretic -- by the same confession of course! That way, when we discuss God, we'll know who among us are orthodox in our beliefs and who heretical, and we won't need to get into silly and pointless ad hominem arguments. Is that all right with you? We'll be the orthodox group and you the heretic: a compromise! Are you willing to do that? Bill - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 4:12 AM Subject: [TruthTalk] Reconciliation to the Father through Christ (JD) JD, I may be mistaken but I get the idea you are constantly striving over these "Jesus is God" and "Eternal Son" issues to try to conform scripture to the teachings of the Church Fathers or what is known as "Orthodoxy" extra Biblical teachings that have been handed down generationally. Why not submit oneself to God's Word and allow Him to give you understanding. You know how every word is established by two or more scriptural witnesses? Well here is another witness to the truth of Col 1:19. "It was God (personally present in Christ), reconciling and restoring the world to favor with Himself, not counting up and holding against (men) their trespasses (but cancelling them) and committing to us the message of reconciliation (of the restoration to favor)." (2 Cor 5:19) Amp Notice it does not say it was Christ as God who reconciled the world to himself? The Holy Spirit is part of the Godhead - He is equal to both Father and Son; Jesus as son of man walked in His fullness. So tell me, what is wrong with just allowing God to be God and allowing His Word to reveal His intent to this generation? We don't want to repeat Israel's error ... you know the stiff neck syndrome...-- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Plains.Net, and is believed to be clean.
Re: [TruthTalk] Reconciliation to the Father through Christ (JD)
- Original Message - From: Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 1/7/2006 11:23:39 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Reconciliation to the Father through Christ (JD) I'll tell you what, Judy, your constant accusation that we (John, Lance, myself, et al) are conforming to the Church fathers, is nothing but an ad hom and needs to stop, so we can get on to discussing the truth of this matter. How about a compromise? We'll be content to accept your charge against us, that we embrace Orthodoxy on this subject, the stated confession of the Church throughout the ages; if you'll accept the opposite and embrace the fact that you are therefore a heretic -- by the same confession of course! That way, when we discuss God, we'll know who among us are orthodox in our beliefs and who heretical, and we won't need to get into silly and pointless ad hominem arguments. Is that all right with you? We'll be the orthodox group and you the heretic: a compromise! Are you willing to do that? Cd: Judy by Catholic and Calvinist standards you would fit the profile of a heretic:-) Bill - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 4:12 AM Subject: [TruthTalk] Reconciliation to the Father through Christ (JD) JD, I may be mistaken but I get the idea you are constantly striving over these "Jesus is God" and "Eternal Son" issues to try to conform scripture to the teachings of the Church Fathers or what is known as "Orthodoxy" extra Biblical teachings that have been handed down generationally. Why not submit oneself to God's Word and allow Him to give you understanding. You know how every word is established by two or more scriptural witnesses? Well here is another witness to the truth of Col 1:19. "It was God (personally present in Christ), reconciling and restoring the world to favor with Himself, not counting up and holding against (men) their trespasses (but cancelling them) and committing to us the message of reconciliation (of the restoration to favor)." (2 Cor 5:19) Amp Notice it does not say it was Christ as God who reconciled the world to himself? The Holy Spirit is part of the Godhead - He is equal to both Father and Son; Jesus as son of man walked in His fullness. So tell me, what is wrong with just allowing God to be God and allowing His Word to reveal His intent to this generation? We don't want to repeat Israel's error ... you know the stiff neck syndrome...-- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Plains.Net, and is believed to be clean.
Re: [TruthTalk] Reconciliation to the Father through Christ (JD)
I'll tell you what, Judy, your constant accusation that we (John, Lance, myself, et al) are conforming to the Church fathers, is nothing but an ad hom and needs to stop, so we can get on to discussing the truth of this matter. How about a compromise? We'll be content to accept your charge against us, that we embrace Orthodoxy on this subject, the stated confession of the Church throughout the ages; if you'll accept the opposite and embrace the fact that you are therefore a heretic -- by the same confession of course! That way, when we discuss God, we'll know who among us are orthodox in our beliefs and who heretical, and we won't need to get into silly and pointless ad hominem arguments. Is that all right with you? We'll be the orthodox group and you the heretic: a compromise! Are you willing to do that? Bill - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 4:12 AM Subject: [TruthTalk] Reconciliation to the Father through Christ (JD) JD, I may be mistaken but I get the idea you are constantly striving over these "Jesus is God" and "Eternal Son" issues to try to conform scripture to the teachings of the Church Fathers or what is known as "Orthodoxy" extra Biblical teachings that have been handed down generationally. Why not submit oneself to God's Word and allow Him to give you understanding. You know how every word is established by two or more scriptural witnesses? Well here is another witness to the truth of Col 1:19. "It was God (personally present in Christ), reconciling and restoring the world to favor with Himself, not counting up and holding against (men) their trespasses (but cancelling them) and committing to us the message of reconciliation (of the restoration to favor)." (2 Cor 5:19) Amp Notice it does not say it was Christ as God who reconciled the world to himself? The Holy Spirit is part of the Godhead - He is equal to both Father and Son; Jesus as son of man walked in His fullness. So tell me, what is wrong with just allowing God to be God and allowing His Word to reveal His intent to this generation? We don't want to repeat Israel's error ... you know the stiff neck syndrome...-- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Plains.Net, and is believed to be clean.
Re: [TruthTalk] Reconciliation to the Father through Christ (JD)
On Sat, 7 Jan 2006 07:49:22 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Language/Terminology: Which words shall we use then? If we utilize only words employed in the Bible then, shall we restrict ourselves to the languages in which they were originally written? If we do this then which mss shall we draw from? Just how many versions of the same Word to you have access to Lance? You said 'seems to me that JESUS BEING GOD/MAN IS THE ISSUE' I agree. IFO believe that WHO JESUS IS is THE HEART OF THE GOSPEL. He is NOT the spirit brother of Lucifer (Mormonism). He is NOT Michael the archangel (JW). He is NOT an avatar (Hinduism). He is NOT simply a prophet, one among many (Islam). He is NOT simply a good teacher who left us a good example of how to live (?). No he was never any of the above ... IMO, we on TT will not come to a UNIFORM UNDERSTANDING of WHO JESUS IS! Why we will not interests me greatly. I should like to hear from anyone on this matter. Because the ONLY way will will ever come to a "uniform understanding" that has anything to do with God and His ways is to submit ourselves to His Own Word rather than the words of everyone else out there who wants to help us along by attempting to explain him. From: Judy Taylor Why do you say "beginnings" Lance I don't see "trinitarian understanding" anywhere in the Word of God - I use the word Godhead which means the same thing and have been saying all along that understanding must come through God's Word by God's Spirit so I am not really saying anything different here - Seems to me that Jesus being God/Man is the issue at hand; so what exactly does this mean to you? (in Canadianese) On Sat, 7 Jan 2006 07:04:25 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: JT, I also may be mistaken but I get the idea that you've just offered up the beginnings of a trinitarian understanding of God's reconciling work in Christ by the Spirit. The Father is God. Jesus is God/Man. The Spirit is God. God alone saves/reconciles/redeems/restores. From: Judy Taylor JD, I may be mistaken but I get the idea you are constantly striving over these "Jesus is God" and "Eternal Son" issues to try to conform scripture to the teachings of the Church Fathers or what is known as "Orthodoxy" extra Biblical teachings that have been handed down generationally. Why not submit oneself to God's Word and allow Him to give you understanding. You know how every word is established by two or more scriptural witnesses? Well here is another witness to the truth of Col 1:19. "It was God (personally present in Christ), reconciling and restoring the world to favor with Himself, not counting up and holding against (men) their trespasses (but cancelling them) and committing to us the message of reconciliation (of the restoration to favor)." (2 Cor 5:19) Amp Notice it does not say it was Christ as God who reconciled the world to himself? The Holy Spirit is part of the Godhead - He is equal to both Father and Son; Jesus as son of man walked in His fullness. So tell me, what is wrong with just allowing God to be God and allowing His Word to reveal His intent to this generation? We don't want to repeat Israel's error ... you know the stiff neck syndrome...
Re: [TruthTalk] Reconciliation to the Father through Christ (JD)
On Sat, 07 Jan 2006 13:39:57 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Beans. I wasn't finished with that last post. I worship Him because of who He is in this world. Well then, what's the problem? He is presently in this world by His Spirit Jesus tells us that He is in the Father and the Father is in Him -- in this world curing His incarnation. Take a glass of orange juice and mix in a glass of water. In time, the two ellements will become indistinguishable. Christ says "if you hve seen me , you have seen the Father." He says "I am the first and the last." He also tells us those who believe on Him that He is in them and they are in Him and that IF they abide in Him that He and the Father will make their abode with them. You think I am concerned about reconciling Eusebius or Polycarp or Alexander's thoughts to the scriptures? You actually think I that No, it's more like Athanasius, Augustine, Aquinas I care about learning from whoever writes the word (including you) but my authority on matters of didache is the written Word. Good, then at least we can agree on this one point. jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> JD, I may be mistaken but I get the idea you are constantly striving over these "Jesus is God" and "Eternal Son" issues to try to conform scripture to the teachings of the Church Fathers or what is known as "Orthodoxy" extra Biblical teachings that have been handed down generationally. Why not submit oneself to God's Word and allow Him to give you understanding. You know how every word is established by two or more scriptural witnesses? Well here is another witness to the truth of Col 1:19. "It was God (personally present in Christ), reconciling and restoring the world to favor with Himself, not counting up and holding against (men) their trespasses (but cancelling them) and committing to us the message of reconciliation (of the restoration to favor)." (2 Cor 5:19) Amp Notice it does not say it was Christ as God who reconciled the world to himself? The Holy Spirit is part of the Godhead - He is equal to both Father and Son; Jesus as son of man walked in His fullness. So tell me, what is wrong with just allowing God to be God and allowing His Word to reveal His intent to this generation? We don't want to repeat Israel's error ... you know the stiff neck syndrome...
Re: [TruthTalk] Reconciliation to the Father through Christ (JD)
It's a synthesis, Judy, of the entire witness of Scripture.
Read the Bible.
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 7:48
AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Reconciliation
to the Father through Christ (JD)
Chapter and verse please Bill
On Sat, 7 Jan 2006 07:50:18 -0700 "Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Jesus is fully God.
Jesus is fully Man.
Two natures in one person, united.
Bill
- Original Message -
From:
Lance
Muir
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 5:49
AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Reconciliation to the Father through Christ (JD)
Language/Terminology: Which words shall
we use then? If we utilize only words employed in the Bible then, shall we
restrict ourselves to the languages in which they were originally written?
If we do this then which mss shall we draw from?
You said 'seems to me that JESUS BEING
GOD/MAN IS THE ISSUE' I agree. IFO believe that WHO JESUS IS is THE HEART
OF THE GOSPEL. He is NOT the spirit brother of Lucifer (Mormonism). He is
NOT Michael the archangel (JW). He is NOT an avatar (Hinduism). He is NOT
simply a prophet, one among many (Islam). He is NOT simply a good teacher
who left us a good example of how to live (?).
IMO, we on TT will not come to a UNIFORM
UNDERSTANDING of WHO JESUS IS! Why we will not interests me greatly. I
should like to hear from anyone on this matter.
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 07, 2006 07:14
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Reconciliation to the Father through Christ (JD)
Why do you say "beginnings" Lance
I don't see "trinitarian understanding"
anywhere in the Word of God - I use the word Godhead which
means
the same thing and have been saying all
along that understanding must come through
God's Word by God's
Spirit so I am not really saying anything
different here - Seems to me that Jesus
being God/Man is the issue
at hand; so what exactly does this mean to you? (in Canadianese)
On Sat, 7 Jan 2006 07:04:25 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
JT,
I also may be mistaken but I get the idea
that you've just offered up the beginnings of a trinitarian
understanding of God's reconciling work in Christ by the Spirit. The
Father is God. Jesus is God/Man. The Spirit is God. God alone
saves/reconciles/redeems/restores.
From: Judy
Taylor
JD,
I may be mistaken but I get the idea you
are constantly striving over these "Jesus is God" and
"Eternal Son" issues to try to conform
scripture to the teachings of the Church Fathers or
what
is known as "Orthodoxy" extra Biblical
teachings that have been handed down generationally.
Why not submit oneself to God's Word
and allow Him to give you
understanding. You know how
every word is established by two or more
scriptural witnesses? Well here is
another witness to
the truth of Col 1:19.
"It was God (personally present in Christ),
reconciling and restoring the world to favor with Himself,
not
counting up and holding against (men) their
trespasses (but cancelling them) and committing to us
the message of reconciliation (of the
restoration to favor)." (2 Cor 5:19) Amp
Notice it does not say it was Christ
as God who reconciled the world to
himself?
The Holy Spirit is part of the Godhead - He
is equal to both Father and Son; Jesus as son of man
walked in His fullness. So tell me,
what is wrong with just allowing God to be God and allowing His
Word to reveal
His intent to this generation? We don't want to repeat
Israel's error ... you know the
stiff neck
syndrome...
-- This message has
been scanned for viruses and dangerous conten
Re: [TruthTalk] Reconciliation to the Father through Christ (JD)
Chapter and verse please Bill
On Sat, 7 Jan 2006 07:50:18 -0700 "Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Jesus is fully God.
Jesus is fully Man.
Two natures in one person, united.
Bill
- Original Message -
From:
Lance
Muir
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 5:49
AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Reconciliation
to the Father through Christ (JD)
Language/Terminology: Which words shall we
use then? If we utilize only words employed in the Bible then, shall we
restrict ourselves to the languages in which they were originally written?
If we do this then which mss shall we draw from?
You said 'seems to me that JESUS BEING GOD/MAN
IS THE ISSUE' I agree. IFO believe that WHO JESUS IS is THE HEART OF THE
GOSPEL. He is NOT the spirit brother of Lucifer (Mormonism). He is NOT
Michael the archangel (JW). He is NOT an avatar (Hinduism). He is NOT simply
a prophet, one among many (Islam). He is NOT simply a good teacher who left
us a good example of how to live (?).
IMO, we on TT will not come to a UNIFORM
UNDERSTANDING of WHO JESUS IS! Why we will not interests me greatly. I
should like to hear from anyone on this matter.
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 07, 2006 07:14
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Reconciliation to the Father through Christ (JD)
Why do you say "beginnings" Lance
I don't see "trinitarian understanding" anywhere
in the Word of God - I use the word Godhead which means
the same thing and have been saying all
along that understanding must come through
God's Word by God's
Spirit so I am not really saying anything
different here - Seems to me that Jesus
being God/Man is the issue
at hand; so what exactly does this mean to you? (in Canadianese)
On Sat, 7 Jan 2006 07:04:25 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
JT,
I also may be mistaken but I get the idea
that you've just offered up the beginnings of a trinitarian
understanding of God's reconciling work in Christ by the Spirit. The
Father is God. Jesus is God/Man. The Spirit is God. God alone
saves/reconciles/redeems/restores.
From: Judy
Taylor
JD,
I may be mistaken but I get the idea you are
constantly striving over these "Jesus is God" and
"Eternal Son" issues to try to conform
scripture to the teachings of the Church Fathers or what
is known as "Orthodoxy" extra Biblical
teachings that have been handed down generationally.
Why not submit oneself to God's Word and
allow Him to give you understanding.
You know how
every word is established by two or more
scriptural witnesses? Well here is another
witness to
the truth of Col 1:19.
"It was God (personally present in Christ),
reconciling and restoring the world to favor with Himself,
not
counting up and holding against (men) their
trespasses (but cancelling them) and committing to us
the message of reconciliation (of the
restoration to favor)." (2 Cor 5:19) Amp
Notice it does not say it was Christ
as God who reconciled the world to
himself?
The Holy Spirit is part of the Godhead - He
is equal to both Father and Son; Jesus as son of man
walked in His fullness. So tell me,
what is wrong with just allowing God to be God and allowing His
Word to reveal His
intent to this generation? We don't want to repeat Israel's
error ... you know the
stiff neck
syndrome...
-- This message has been
scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Plains.Net, and is believed to
be clean.
Re: [TruthTalk] Reconciliation to the Father through Christ (JD)
Jesus is fully God.
Jesus is fully Man.
Two natures in one person, united.
Bill
- Original Message -
From:
Lance
Muir
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 5:49
AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Reconciliation
to the Father through Christ (JD)
Language/Terminology: Which words shall we
use then? If we utilize only words employed in the Bible then, shall we
restrict ourselves to the languages in which they were originally written? If
we do this then which mss shall we draw from?
You said 'seems to me that JESUS BEING GOD/MAN IS
THE ISSUE' I agree. IFO believe that WHO JESUS IS is THE HEART OF THE GOSPEL.
He is NOT the spirit brother of Lucifer (Mormonism). He is NOT Michael the
archangel (JW). He is NOT an avatar (Hinduism). He is NOT simply a prophet,
one among many (Islam). He is NOT simply a good teacher who left us a good
example of how to live (?).
IMO, we on TT will not come to a UNIFORM
UNDERSTANDING of WHO JESUS IS! Why we will not interests me greatly. I should
like to hear from anyone on this matter.
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 07, 2006 07:14
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Reconciliation
to the Father through Christ (JD)
Why do you say "beginnings" Lance
I don't see "trinitarian understanding" anywhere in
the Word of God - I use the word Godhead which means
the same thing and have been saying all along
that understanding must come through God's Word
by God's
Spirit so I am not really saying anything different
here - Seems to me that Jesus being God/Man
is the issue
at hand; so what exactly does this mean to you? (in Canadianese)
On Sat, 7 Jan 2006 07:04:25 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
JT,
I also may be mistaken but I get the idea
that you've just offered up the beginnings of a trinitarian understanding
of God's reconciling work in Christ by the Spirit. The Father is God.
Jesus is God/Man. The Spirit is God. God alone
saves/reconciles/redeems/restores.
From: Judy
Taylor
JD,
I may be mistaken but I get the idea you are
constantly striving over these "Jesus is God" and
"Eternal Son" issues to try to conform
scripture to the teachings of the Church Fathers or what
is known as "Orthodoxy" extra Biblical
teachings that have been handed down generationally.
Why not submit oneself to God's Word and
allow Him to give you understanding.
You know how
every word is established by two or more
scriptural witnesses? Well here is another
witness to
the truth of Col 1:19.
"It was God (personally present in Christ),
reconciling and restoring the world to favor with Himself,
not
counting up and holding against (men) their
trespasses (but cancelling them) and committing to us
the message of reconciliation (of the
restoration to favor)." (2 Cor 5:19) Amp
Notice it does not say it was Christ
as God who reconciled the world to
himself?
The Holy Spirit is part of the Godhead - He is
equal to both Father and Son; Jesus as son of man
walked in His fullness. So tell me, what
is wrong with just allowing God to be God and allowing His
Word to reveal His
intent to this generation? We don't want to repeat Israel's error
... you know the
stiff neck syndrome...
-- This message has been
scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Plains.Net, and is believed to be
clean.
Re: [TruthTalk] Reconciliation to the Father through Christ (JD)
Beans. I wasn't finished with that last post. I worship Him because of who He is in this world. Jesus tells us that He is in the Father and the Father is in Him -- in this world curing His incarnation. Take a glass of orange juice and mix in a glass of water. In time, the two ellements will become indistinguishable. Christ says "if you hve seen me , you have seen the Father." He says "I am the first and the last." You think I am concerned about reconciling Eusebius or Polycarp or Alexander's thoughts to the scriptures? You actually think I that I care about learning from whoever writes the word (including you) but my authority on matters of didache is the written Word. jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> JD, I may be mistaken but I get the idea you are constantly striving over these "Jesus is God" and "Eternal Son" issues to try to conform scripture to the teachings of the Church Fathers or what is known as "Orthodoxy" extra Biblical teachings that have been handed down generationally. Why not submit oneself to God's Word and allow Him to give you understanding. You know how every word is established by two or more scriptural witnesses? Well here is another witness to the truth of Col 1:19. "It was God (personally present in Christ), reconciling and restoring the world to favor with Himself, not counting up and holding against (men) their trespasses (but cancelling them) and committing to us the message of reconciliation (of the restoration to favor)." (2 Cor 5:19) Amp Notice it does not say it was Christ as God who reconciled the world to himself? The Holy Spirit is part of the Godhead - He is equal to both Father and Son; Jesus as son of man walked in His fullness. So tell me, what is wrong with just allowing God to be God and allowing His Word to reveal His intent to this generation? We don't want to repeat Israel's error ... you know the stiff neck syndrome...
Re: [TruthTalk] Reconciliation to the Father through Christ (JD)
Judy, it is critically important to me that Jesus be God. It is in this world, on this earth and clothed with the same flesh as I that Jesus establishes Himself and His mission as that which continues the work of the Israel of God. I serve Him because of what He did in this world. I worship Him becuase of who He is in this world. jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> JD, I may be mistaken but I get the idea you are constantly striving over these "Jesus is God" and "Eternal Son" issues to try to conform scripture to the teachings of the Church Fathers or what is known as "Orthodoxy" extra Biblical teachings that have been handed down generationally. Why not submit oneself to God's Word and allow Him to give you understanding. You know how every word is established by two or more scriptural witnesses? Well here is another witness to the truth of Col 1:19. "It was God (personally present in Christ), reconciling and restoring the world to favor with Himself, not counting up and holding against (men) their trespasses (but cancelling them) and committing to us the message of reconciliation (of the restoration to favor)." (2 Cor 5:19) Amp Notice it does not say it was Christ as God who reconciled the world to himself? The Holy Spirit is part of the Godhead - He is equal to both Father and Son; Jesus as son of man walked in His fullness. So tell me, what is wrong with just allowing God to be God and allowing His Word to reveal His intent to this generation? We don't want to repeat Israel's error ... you know the stiff neck syndrome...
Re: [TruthTalk] Reconciliation to the Father through Christ (JD)
Language/Terminology: Which words shall we use then? If we utilize only words employed in the Bible then, shall we restrict ourselves to the languages in which they were originally written? If we do this then which mss shall we draw from? You said 'seems to me that JESUS BEING GOD/MAN IS THE ISSUE' I agree. IFO believe that WHO JESUS IS is THE HEART OF THE GOSPEL. He is NOT the spirit brother of Lucifer (Mormonism). He is NOT Michael the archangel (JW). He is NOT an avatar (Hinduism). He is NOT simply a prophet, one among many (Islam). He is NOT simply a good teacher who left us a good example of how to live (?). IMO, we on TT will not come to a UNIFORM UNDERSTANDING of WHO JESUS IS! Why we will not interests me greatly. I should like to hear from anyone on this matter. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: January 07, 2006 07:14 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Reconciliation to the Father through Christ (JD) Why do you say "beginnings" Lance I don't see "trinitarian understanding" anywhere in the Word of God - I use the word Godhead which means the same thing and have been saying all along that understanding must come through God's Word by God's Spirit so I am not really saying anything different here - Seems to me that Jesus being God/Man is the issue at hand; so what exactly does this mean to you? (in Canadianese) On Sat, 7 Jan 2006 07:04:25 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: JT, I also may be mistaken but I get the idea that you've just offered up the beginnings of a trinitarian understanding of God's reconciling work in Christ by the Spirit. The Father is God. Jesus is God/Man. The Spirit is God. God alone saves/reconciles/redeems/restores. From: Judy Taylor JD, I may be mistaken but I get the idea you are constantly striving over these "Jesus is God" and "Eternal Son" issues to try to conform scripture to the teachings of the Church Fathers or what is known as "Orthodoxy" extra Biblical teachings that have been handed down generationally. Why not submit oneself to God's Word and allow Him to give you understanding. You know how every word is established by two or more scriptural witnesses? Well here is another witness to the truth of Col 1:19. "It was God (personally present in Christ), reconciling and restoring the world to favor with Himself, not counting up and holding against (men) their trespasses (but cancelling them) and committing to us the message of reconciliation (of the restoration to favor)." (2 Cor 5:19) Amp Notice it does not say it was Christ as God who reconciled the world to himself? The Holy Spirit is part of the Godhead - He is equal to both Father and Son; Jesus as son of man walked in His fullness. So tell me, what is wrong with just allowing God to be God and allowing His Word to reveal His intent to this generation? We don't want to repeat Israel's error ... you know the stiff neck syndrome...
Re: [TruthTalk] Reconciliation to the Father through Christ (JD)
Why do you say "beginnings" Lance I don't see "trinitarian understanding" anywhere in the Word of God - I use the word Godhead which means the same thing and have been saying all along that understanding must come through God's Word by God's Spirit so I am not really saying anything different here - Seems to me that Jesus being God/Man is the issue at hand; so what exactly does this mean to you? (in Canadianese) On Sat, 7 Jan 2006 07:04:25 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: JT, I also may be mistaken but I get the idea that you've just offered up the beginnings of a trinitarian understanding of God's reconciling work in Christ by the Spirit. The Father is God. Jesus is God/Man. The Spirit is God. God alone saves/reconciles/redeems/restores. From: Judy Taylor JD, I may be mistaken but I get the idea you are constantly striving over these "Jesus is God" and "Eternal Son" issues to try to conform scripture to the teachings of the Church Fathers or what is known as "Orthodoxy" extra Biblical teachings that have been handed down generationally. Why not submit oneself to God's Word and allow Him to give you understanding. You know how every word is established by two or more scriptural witnesses? Well here is another witness to the truth of Col 1:19. "It was God (personally present in Christ), reconciling and restoring the world to favor with Himself, not counting up and holding against (men) their trespasses (but cancelling them) and committing to us the message of reconciliation (of the restoration to favor)." (2 Cor 5:19) Amp Notice it does not say it was Christ as God who reconciled the world to himself? The Holy Spirit is part of the Godhead - He is equal to both Father and Son; Jesus as son of man walked in His fullness. So tell me, what is wrong with just allowing God to be God and allowing His Word to reveal His intent to this generation? We don't want to repeat Israel's error ... you know the stiff neck syndrome...
Re: [TruthTalk] Reconciliation to the Father through Christ (JD)
JT, I also may be mistaken but I get the idea that you've just offered up the beginnings of a trinitarian understanding of God's reconciling work in Christ by the Spirit. The Father is God. Jesus is God/Man. The Spirit is God. God alone saves/reconciles/redeems/restores. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: January 07, 2006 06:12 Subject: [TruthTalk] Reconciliation to the Father through Christ (JD) JD, I may be mistaken but I get the idea you are constantly striving over these "Jesus is God" and "Eternal Son" issues to try to conform scripture to the teachings of the Church Fathers or what is known as "Orthodoxy" extra Biblical teachings that have been handed down generationally. Why not submit oneself to God's Word and allow Him to give you understanding. You know how every word is established by two or more scriptural witnesses? Well here is another witness to the truth of Col 1:19. "It was God (personally present in Christ), reconciling and restoring the world to favor with Himself, not counting up and holding against (men) their trespasses (but cancelling them) and committing to us the message of reconciliation (of the restoration to favor)." (2 Cor 5:19) Amp Notice it does not say it was Christ as God who reconciled the world to himself? The Holy Spirit is part of the Godhead - He is equal to both Father and Son; Jesus as son of man walked in His fullness. So tell me, what is wrong with just allowing God to be God and allowing His Word to reveal His intent to this generation? We don't want to repeat Israel's error ... you know the stiff neck syndrome...
