Re: [TruthTalk] Something to think about
Help me out Judy. Are you meaning to say that if Jesus is wholly human and wholly divine simultaneously then, he is a Mormon Jesus? - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: January 19, 2006 09:24 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Something to think about Then he's a Mormon Jesus ... who has a problem with that?? On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 09:19:52 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Jesus is neither unambiguously human with our humanity nor unambiguously God with God's divinity. This would make Jesus some 'third thing'. (Arianism) Sometimes you will hear people say 'Jesus is human all right but, he's more than human. That which is more than human isn't human. That which is less than God isn't God. So, said the Arians, Jesus is more than human but less than God. JESUS IS WHOLLY GOD AND WHOLLY HUMAN SIMULTANEOUSLY.
Re: [TruthTalk] Something to think about
Isn't this a form of what the Mormon Church teaches Lance? Theirs is a flesh religion and they have no problems with purity and holiness Same with the so called "Church fathers" or patriarchs who came up with the pronouncements this generation mindlessly parrots. By the time they began holding these ecumenical councils and writing their creeds the professing Church (or embryonic rcc) was already off into darkness. On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 09:44:27 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Help me out Judy. Are you meaning to say that if Jesus is wholly human and wholly divine simultaneously then, he is a Mormon Jesus? From: Judy Taylor Then he's a Mormon Jesus ... who has a problem with that?? On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 09:19:52 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Jesus is neither unambiguously human with our humanity nor unambiguously God with God's divinity. This would make Jesus some 'third thing'. (Arianism) Sometimes you will hear people say 'Jesus is human all right but, he's more than human. That which is more than human isn't human. That which is less than God isn't God. So, said the Arians, Jesus is more than human but less than God. JESUS IS WHOLLY GOD AND WHOLLY HUMAN SIMULTANEOUSLY.
Re: [TruthTalk] Something to think about
Then he's a Mormon Jesus ... who has a problem with that?? On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 09:19:52 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Jesus is neither unambiguously human with our humanity nor unambiguously God with God's divinity. This would make Jesus some 'third thing'. (Arianism) Sometimes you will hear people say 'Jesus is human all right but, he's more than human. That which is more than human isn't human. That which is less than God isn't God. So, said the Arians, Jesus is more than human but less than God. JESUS IS WHOLLY GOD AND WHOLLY HUMAN SIMULTANEOUSLY.
Re: [TruthTalk] Something to think about
NO! - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: January 19, 2006 10:09 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Something to think about Isn't this a form of what the Mormon Church teaches Lance? Theirs is a flesh religion and they have no problems with purity and holiness Same with the so called "Church fathers" or patriarchs who came up with the pronouncements this generation mindlessly parrots. By the time they began holding these ecumenical councils and writing their creeds the professing Church (or embryonic rcc) was already off into darkness. On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 09:44:27 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Help me out Judy. Are you meaning to say that if Jesus is wholly human and wholly divine simultaneously then, he is a Mormon Jesus? From: Judy Taylor Then he's a Mormon Jesus ... who has a problem with that?? On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 09:19:52 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Jesus is neither unambiguously human with our humanity nor unambiguously God with God's divinity. This would make Jesus some 'third thing'. (Arianism) Sometimes you will hear people say 'Jesus is human all right but, he's more than human. That which is more than human isn't human. That which is less than God isn't God. So, said the Arians, Jesus is more than human but less than God. JESUS IS WHOLLY GOD AND WHOLLY HUMAN SIMULTANEOUSLY.
Re: [TruthTalk] Something to think about
They do, their stance is that man is progressing toward godhood as they do what the church says and that basically God is a man from the planet Kolob. Where in the Bible are we told that JESUS IS WHOLLY GOD AND WHOLLY HUMAN SIMULTANEOUSLY. This is a human construct; the scriptures themselves teach that he layed aside some things and became a little lower than the angels which is hardly "wholly God" and during his earthly ministry he claimed to have come from "heaven" which is hardly "wholly human" and earthly or of the earth. On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 10:15:07 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: NO! From: Judy Taylor Isn't this a form of what the Mormon Church teaches Lance? Theirs is a flesh religion and they have no problems with purity and holiness Same with the so called "Church fathers" or patriarchs who came up with the pronouncements this generation mindlessly parrots. By the time they began holding these ecumenical councils and writing their creeds the professing Church (or embryonic rcc) was already off into darkness. On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 09:44:27 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Help me out Judy. Are you meaning to say that if Jesus is wholly human and wholly divine simultaneously then, he is a Mormon Jesus? From: Judy Taylor Then he's a Mormon Jesus ... who has a problem with that?? On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 09:19:52 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Jesus is neither unambiguously human with our humanity nor unambiguously God with God's divinity. This would make Jesus some 'third thing'. (Arianism) Sometimes you will hear people say 'Jesus is human all right but, he's more than human. That which is more than human isn't human. That which is less than God isn't God. So, said the Arians, Jesus is more than human but less than God. JESUS IS WHOLLY GOD AND WHOLLY HUMAN SIMULTANEOUSLY.
Re: [TruthTalk] Something to think about
I assure you (perhaps a Mormon could intervene on Judy's behalf) that the statement in caps is NOT the Mormon position. It is, in reality, the position held by believing Christians for some 2,000 years. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: January 19, 2006 10:29 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Something to think about They do, their stance is that man is progressing toward godhood as they do what the church says and that basically God is a man from the planet Kolob. Where in the Bible are we told that JESUS IS WHOLLY GOD AND WHOLLY HUMAN SIMULTANEOUSLY. This is a human construct; the scriptures themselves teach that he layed aside some things and became a little lower than the angels which is hardly "wholly God" and during his earthly ministry he claimed to have come from "heaven" which is hardly "wholly human" and earthly or of the earth. On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 10:15:07 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: NO! From: Judy Taylor Isn't this a form of what the Mormon Church teaches Lance? Theirs is a flesh religion and they have no problems with purity and holiness Same with the so called "Church fathers" or patriarchs who came up with the pronouncements this generation mindlessly parrots. By the time they began holding these ecumenical councils and writing their creeds the professing Church (or embryonic rcc) was already off into darkness. On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 09:44:27 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Help me out Judy. Are you meaning to say that if Jesus is wholly human and wholly divine simultaneously then, he is a Mormon Jesus? From: Judy Taylor Then he's a Mormon Jesus ... who has a problem with that?? On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 09:19:52 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Jesus is neither unambiguously human with our humanity nor unambiguously God with God's divinity. This would make Jesus some 'third thing'. (Arianism) Sometimes you will hear people say 'Jesus is human all right but, he's more than human. That which is more than human isn't human. That which is less than God isn't God. So, said the Arians, Jesus is more than human but less than God. JESUS IS WHOLLY GOD AND WHOLLY HUMAN SIMULTANEOUSLY.
Re: [TruthTalk] Something to think about
Being wholly human and god ATST is a Mormon construct. Whereas it would be against the God of the Bible's ways to be "fallen" and wholly God ATST On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 10:43:13 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: I assure you (perhaps a Mormon could intervene on Judy's behalf) that the statement in caps is NOT the Mormon position. It is, in reality, the position held by believing Christians for some 2,000 years. From: Judy Taylor They do, their stance is that man is progressing toward godhood as they do what the church says and that basically God is a man from the planet Kolob. Where in the Bible are we told that JESUS IS WHOLLY GOD AND WHOLLY HUMAN SIMULTANEOUSLY. This is a human construct; the scriptures themselves teach that he layed aside some things and became a little lower than the angels which is hardly "wholly God" and during his earthly ministry he claimed to have come from "heaven" which is hardly "wholly human" and earthly or of the earth. On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 10:15:07 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: NO! From: Judy Taylor Isn't this a form of what the Mormon Church teaches Lance? Theirs is a flesh religion and they have no problems with purity and holiness Same with the so called "Church fathers" or patriarchs who came up with the pronouncements this generation mindlessly parrots. By the time they began holding these ecumenical councils and writing their creeds the professing Church (or embryonic rcc) was already off into darkness. On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 09:44:27 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Help me out Judy. Are you meaning to say that if Jesus is wholly human and wholly divine simultaneously then, he is a Mormon Jesus? From: Judy Taylor Then he's a Mormon Jesus ... who has a problem with that?? On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 09:19:52 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Jesus is neither unambiguously human with our humanity nor unambiguously God with God's divinity. This would make Jesus some 'third thing'. (Arianism) Sometimes you will hear people say 'Jesus is human all right but, he's more than human. That which is more than human isn't human. That which is less than God isn't God. So, said the Arians, Jesus is more than human but less than God. JESUS IS WHOLLY GOD AND WHOLLY HUMAN SIMULTANEOUSLY.
Re: [TruthTalk] Something to think about
The God of the earth, the Mormon God of this earth, is some guy who made it on another planet and was given this planet as a reward! Where, in all that, Judy, do you see even a similarity between that view and the one that declares Christ to be both YHWH and Messian ??? If you truly believe this, you neither understand the Mormon God nor the Christian God. And, as I have said before -- your God is neither of the two. You stand alone with your thinking on this. Need I bring up BSF or your pastor again? Actually, Strong and Dakes probable [both] disagree with you. You stand alone. jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Then he's a Mormon Jesus ... who has a problem with that?? On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 09:19:52 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Jesus is neither unambiguously human with our humanity nor unambiguously God with God's divinity. This would make Jesus some 'third thing'. (Arianism) Sometimes you will hear people say 'Jesus is human all right but, he's more than human. That which is more than human isn't human. That which is less than God isn't God. So, said the Arians, Jesus is more than human but less than God. JESUS IS WHOLLY GOD AND WHOLLY HUMAN SIMULTANEOUSLY.
Re: [TruthTalk] Something to think about
No !! As man is, God once was. As God is, man shall become. There is no claim for Christ to be YHWH ( the God of all things) and MESSIAH and MAN at the same time in the Mormon doctrine of God. jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Being wholly human and god ATST is a Mormon construct. Whereas it would be against the God of the Bible's ways to be "fallen" and wholly God ATST On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 10:43:13 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: I assure you (perhaps a Mormon could intervene on Judy's behalf) that the statement in caps is NOT the Mormon position. It is, in reality, the position held by believing Christians for some 2,000 years. From: Judy Taylor They do, their stance is that man is progressing toward godhood as they do what the church says and that basically God is a man from the planet Kolob. Where in the Bible are we told that JESUS IS WHOLLY GOD AND WHOLLY HUMAN SIMULTANEOUSLY. This is a human construct; the scriptures themselves teach that he layed aside some things and became a little lower than the angels which is hardly "wholly God" and during his earthly ministry he claimed to have come from "heaven" which is hardly "wholly human" and earthly or of the earth. On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 10:15:07 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: NO! From: Judy Taylor Isn't this a form of what the Mormon Church teaches Lance? Theirs is a flesh religion and they have no problems with purity and holiness Same with the so called "Church fathers" or patriarchs who came up with the pronouncements this generation mindlessly parrots. By the time they began holding these ecumenical councils and writing their creeds the professing Church (or embryonic rcc) was already off into darkness. On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 09:44:27 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Help me out Judy. Are you meaning to say that if Jesus is wholly human and wholly divine simultaneously then, he is a Mormon Jesus? From: Judy Taylor Then he's a Mormon Jesus ... who has a problem with that?? On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 09:19:52 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Jesus is neither unambiguously human with our humanity nor unambiguously God with God's divinity. This would make Jesus some 'third thing'. (Arianism) Sometimes you will hear people say 'Jesus is human all right but, he's more than human. That which is more than human isn't human. That which is less than God isn't God. So, said the Arians, Jesus is more than human but less than God. JESUS IS WHOLLY GOD AND WHOLLY HUMAN SIMULTANEOUSLY.
Re: [TruthTalk] Something to think about
I'm speaking of one aspect ONLY JD and that is the "exactly like us" part. This tells me that those who make and profess such doctrines have no understanding or spiritual discernment and do not walk in the fear of God.. On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:45:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The God of the earth, the Mormon God of this earth, is some guy who made it on another planet and was given this planet as a reward! Where, in all that, Judy, do you see even a similarity between that view and the one that declares Christ to be both YHWH and Messian ??? If you truly believe this, you neither understand the Mormon God nor the Christian God. And, as I have said before -- your God is neither of the two. You stand alone with your thinking on this. Need I bring up BSF or your pastor again? Actually, Strong and Dakes probable [both] disagree with you. You stand alone. jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Then he's a Mormon Jesus ... who has a problem with that?? On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 09:19:52 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Jesus is neither unambiguously human with our humanity nor unambiguously God with God's divinity. This would make Jesus some 'third thing'. (Arianism) Sometimes you will hear people say 'Jesus is human all right but, he's more than human. That which is more than human isn't human. That which is less than God isn't God. So, said the Arians, Jesus is more than human but less than God. JESUS IS WHOLLY GOD AND WHOLLY HUMAN SIMULTANEOUSLY.
Re: [TruthTalk] Something to think about
OK -- so why not say it that way? When you say "Then he's a Mormon Jesus - who has a problem with that?" you are not speaking of a single aspect of the Mormon Jesus. You are equating Lance's teaching with Mormonism AND THE ASSOCIATED BIAS THAT EXISTS ON THIS FORUM. You are simply trying to win the argument with the use of such language. Words mean something. We should mean what we say and actually say what we mean. jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I'm speaking of one aspect ONLY JD and that is the "exactly like us" part. This tells me that those who make and profess such doctrines have no understanding or spiritual discernment and do not walk in the fear of God.. On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:45:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The God of the earth, the Mormon God of this earth, is some guy who made it on another planet and was given this planet as a reward! Where, in all that, Judy, do you see even a similarity between that view and the one that declares Christ to be both YHWH and Messian ??? If you truly believe this, you neither understand the Mormon God nor the Christian God. And, as I have said before -- your God is neither of the two. You stand alone with your thinking on this. Need I bring up BSF or your pastor again? Actually, Strong and Dakes probable [both] disagree with you. You stand alone. jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Then he's a Mormon Jesus ... who has a problem with that?? On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 09:19:52 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Jesus is neither unambiguously human with our humanity nor unambiguously God with God's divinity. This would make Jesus some 'third thing'. (Arianism) Sometimes you will hear people say 'Jesus is human all right but, he's more than human. That which is more than human isn't human. That which is less than God isn't God. So, said the Arians, Jesus is more than human but less than God. JESUS IS WHOLLY GOD AND WHOLLY HUMAN SIMULTANEOUSLY.
Re: [TruthTalk] Something to think about
Excellent point JD And we should do the exact same thing with God's Words - that is, let Him be God and refrain from adding our meaning to His Word, or subtracting His meaning from His Word as has been done in the past and is ongoing today. His Word says that He hates mixture. His Word says that Jesus was/is pure and holy from His birth. I rest my case.. On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:53:54 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: OK -- so why not say it that way? When you say "Then he's a Mormon Jesus - who has a problem with that?" you are not speaking of a single aspect of the Mormon Jesus. You are equating Lance's teaching with Mormonism AND THE ASSOCIATED BIAS THAT EXISTS ON THIS FORUM. You are simply trying to win the argument with the use of such language. Words mean something. We should mean what we say and actually say what we mean. jd From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I'm speaking of one aspect ONLY JD and that is the "exactly like us" part. This tells me that those who make and profess such doctrines have no understanding or spiritual discernment and do not walk in the fear of God.. On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:45:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The God of the earth, the Mormon God of this earth, is some guy who made it on another planet and was given this planet as a reward! Where, in all that, Judy, do you see even a similarity between that view and the one that declares Christ to be both YHWH and Messian ??? If you truly believe this, you neither understand the Mormon God nor the Christian God. And, as I have said before -- your God is neither of the two. You stand alone with your thinking on this. Need I bring up BSF or your pastor again? Actually, Strong and Dakes probable [both] disagree with you. You stand alone. jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Then he's a Mormon Jesus ... who has a problem with that?? On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 09:19:52 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Jesus is neither unambiguously human with our humanity nor unambiguously God with God's divinity. This would make Jesus some 'third thing'. (Arianism) Sometimes you will hear people say 'Jesus is human all right but, he's more than human. That which is more than human isn't human. That which is less than God isn't God. So, said the Arians, Jesus is more than human but less than God. JESUS IS WHOLLY GOD AND WHOLLY HUMAN SIMULTANEOUSLY.
Re: [TruthTalk] Something to think about
I say again, Judy, NOT IT IS NOT!! It is, in REALITY, a thoroughly Christian construct. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: January 19, 2006 11:45 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Something to think about Being wholly human and god ATST is a Mormon construct. Whereas it would be against the God of the Bible's ways to be "fallen" and wholly God ATST On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 10:43:13 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: I assure you (perhaps a Mormon could intervene on Judy's behalf) that the statement in caps is NOT the Mormon position. It is, in reality, the position held by believing Christians for some 2,000 years. From: Judy Taylor They do, their stance is that man is progressing toward godhood as they do what the church says and that basically God is a man from the planet Kolob. Where in the Bible are we told that JESUS IS WHOLLY GOD AND WHOLLY HUMAN SIMULTANEOUSLY. This is a human construct; the scriptures themselves teach that he layed aside some things and became a little lower than the angels which is hardly "wholly God" and during his earthly ministry he claimed to have come from "heaven" which is hardly "wholly human" and earthly or of the earth. On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 10:15:07 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: NO! From: Judy Taylor Isn't this a form of what the Mormon Church teaches Lance? Theirs is a flesh religion and they have no problems with purity and holiness Same with the so called "Church fathers" or patriarchs who came up with the pronouncements this generation mindlessly parrots. By the time they began holding these ecumenical councils and writing their creeds the professing Church (or embryonic rcc) was already off into darkness. On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 09:44:27 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Help me out Judy. Are you meaning to say that if Jesus is wholly human and wholly divine simultaneously then, he is a Mormon Jesus? From: Judy Taylor Then he's a Mormon Jesus ... who has a problem with that?? On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 09:19:52 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Jesus is neither unambiguously human with our humanity nor unambiguously God with God's divinity. This would make Jesus some 'third thing'. (Arianism) Sometimes you will hear people say 'Jesus is human all right but, he's more than human. That which is more than human isn't human. That which is less than God isn't God. So, said the Arians, Jesus is more than human but less than God. JESUS IS WHOLLY GOD AND WHOLLY HUMAN SIMULTANEOUSLY.
Re: [TruthTalk] Something to think about
And you are the only one who beleives what you believe. Why not deal, specifically with Bill's most recent presentation. But you don't. The fact remains that you do not allow for the Bible to simply says what it says. "Flesh" does not mean what everyone else thinks it means. There is an explanation. Son of man does not mean that He is "man" as we are. There is an explanation. "Like us in every respect" does not mean "like us in EVERY RESPECT." There is an explanation. Adam and Eve are not what they appear to be. There is an explanation. In fact, Judy, one cannot pick up the Bible read from its pages, without commentary, without explanation, either your theology or mine !!! If we could, the need for apostles, prophets, evangelist, pastors and teachers would be non-existent. When Paul asks , "and how shall they hear without a preacher ..," Paul is not talking about noise. No, he is talking about hearing with understanding. There MUST be an explanation. What did the Eunich say? "How can I understand unless someone guide me?" (Acts 8:31.) You speak of "adding to " the Word as if this is wrong, in and of itself, while -- at the same time -- your theology does that very thing. whatever jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Excellent point JD And we should do the exact same thing with God's Words - that is, let Him be God and refrain from adding our meaning to His Word, or subtracting His meaning from His Word as has been done in the past and is ongoing today. His Word says that He hates mixture. His Word says that Jesus was/is pure and holy from His birth. I rest my case.. On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:53:54 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: OK -- so why not say it that way? When you say "Then he's a Mormon Jesus - who has a problem with that?" you are not speaking of a single aspect of the Mormon Jesus. You are equating Lance's teaching with Mormonism AND THE ASSOCIATED BIAS THAT EXISTS ON THIS FORUM. You are simply trying to win the argument with the use of such language. Words mean something. We should mean what we say and actually say what we mean. jd From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I'm speaking of one aspect ONLY JD and that is the "exactly like us" part. This tells me that those who make and profess such doctrines have no understanding or spiritual discernment and do not walk in the fear of God.. On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:45:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The God of the earth, the Mormon God of this earth, is some guy who made it on another planet and was given this planet as a reward! Where, in all that, Judy, do you see even a similarity between that view and the one that declares Christ to be both YHWH and Messian ??? If you truly believe this, you neither understand the Mormon God nor the Christian God. And, as I have said before -- your God is neither of the two. You stand alone with your thinking on this. Need I bring up BSF or your pastor again? Actually, Strong and Dakes probable [both] disagree with you. You stand alone. jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Then he's a Mormon Jesus ... who has a problem with that?? On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 09:19:52 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Jesus is neither unambiguously human with our humanity nor unambiguously God with God's divinity. This would make Jesus some 'third thing'. (Arianism) Sometimes you will hear people say 'Jesus is human all right but, he's more than human. That which is more than human isn't human. That which is less than God isn't God. So, said the Arians, Jesus is more than human but less than God. JESUS IS WHOLLY GOD AND WHOLLY HUMAN SIMULTANEOUSLY.
Re: [TruthTalk] Something to think about
My but it does become difficult at times, Judy, believing that you don't know what you're doing when you write like this. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: January 19, 2006 12:31 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Something to think about I'm speaking of one aspect ONLY JD and that is the "exactly like us" part. This tells me that those who make and profess such doctrines have no understanding or spiritual discernment and do not walk in the fear of God.. On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:45:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The God of the earth, the Mormon God of this earth, is some guy who made it on another planet and was given this planet as a reward! Where, in all that, Judy, do you see even a similarity between that view and the one that declares Christ to be both YHWH and Messian ??? If you truly believe this, you neither understand the Mormon God nor the Christian God. And, as I have said before -- your God is neither of the two. You stand alone with your thinking on this. Need I bring up BSF or your pastor again? Actually, Strong and Dakes probable [both] disagree with you. You stand alone. jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Then he's a Mormon Jesus ... who has a problem with that?? On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 09:19:52 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Jesus is neither unambiguously human with our humanity nor unambiguously God with God's divinity. This would make Jesus some 'third thing'. (Arianism) Sometimes you will hear people say 'Jesus is human all right but, he's more than human. That which is more than human isn't human. That which is less than God isn't God. So, said the Arians, Jesus is more than human but less than God. JESUS IS WHOLLY GOD AND WHOLLY HUMAN SIMULTANEOUSLY.
Re: [TruthTalk] Something to think about
You add your meaning to God's Word, Judy, 'almost' (I included this so as not to be identified by David as a blasphemer) every time you cite Scripture. How is that everyone on TT knows this while you do not? - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: January 19, 2006 13:52 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Something to think about Excellent point JD And we should do the exact same thing with God's Words - that is, let Him be God and refrain from adding our meaning to His Word, or subtracting His meaning from His Word as has been done in the past and is ongoing today. His Word says that He hates mixture. His Word says that Jesus was/is pure and holy from His birth. I rest my case.. On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:53:54 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: OK -- so why not say it that way? When you say "Then he's a Mormon Jesus - who has a problem with that?" you are not speaking of a single aspect of the Mormon Jesus. You are equating Lance's teaching with Mormonism AND THE ASSOCIATED BIAS THAT EXISTS ON THIS FORUM. You are simply trying to win the argument with the use of such language. Words mean something. We should mean what we say and actually say what we mean. jd From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I'm speaking of one aspect ONLY JD and that is the "exactly like us" part. This tells me that those who make and profess such doctrines have no understanding or spiritual discernment and do not walk in the fear of God.. On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:45:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The God of the earth, the Mormon God of this earth, is some guy who made it on another planet and was given this planet as a reward! Where, in all that, Judy, do you see even a similarity between that view and the one that declares Christ to be both YHWH and Messian ??? If you truly believe this, you neither understand the Mormon God nor the Christian God. And, as I have said before -- your God is neither of the two. You stand alone with your thinking on this. Need I bring up BSF or your pastor again? Actually, Strong and Dakes probable [both] disagree with you. You stand alone. jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Then he's a Mormon Jesus ... who has a problem with that?? On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 09:19:52 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Jesus is neither unambiguously human with our humanity nor unambiguously God with God's divinity. This would make Jesus some 'third thing'. (Arianism) Sometimes you will hear people say 'Jesus is human all right but, he's more than human. That which is more than human isn't human. That which is less than God isn't God. So, said the Arians, Jesus is more than human but less than God. JESUS IS WHOLLY GOD AND WHOLLY HUMAN SIMULTANEOUSLY.
Re: [TruthTalk] Something to think about
Why would I not be aware of what I am writing Lance? I believe it to be scriptural - If God was concerned enough about sin to curse his creation at the start then why would he send a Redeemer who is under the curse to take care of things? Does not even make common sense. On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 14:43:16 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: My but it does become difficult at times, Judy, believing that you don't know what you're doing when you write like this. From: Judy Taylor I'm speaking of one aspect ONLY JD and that is the "exactly like us" part. This tells me that those who make and profess such doctrines have no understanding or spiritual discernment and do not walk in the fear of God.. On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:45:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The God of the earth, the Mormon God of this earth, is some guy who made it on another planet and was given this planet as a reward! Where, in all that, Judy, do you see even a similarity between that view and the one that declares Christ to be both YHWH and Messian ??? If you truly believe this, you neither understand the Mormon God nor the Christian God. And, as I have said before -- your God is neither of the two. You stand alone with your thinking on this. Need I bring up BSF or your pastor again? Actually, Strong and Dakes probable [both] disagree with you. You stand alone. jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Then he's a Mormon Jesus ... who has a problem with that?? On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 09:19:52 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Jesus is neither unambiguously human with our humanity nor unambiguously God with God's divinity. This would make Jesus some 'third thing'. (Arianism) Sometimes you will hear people say 'Jesus is human all right but, he's more than human. That which is more than human isn't human. That which is less than God isn't God. So, said the Arians, Jesus is more than human but less than God. JESUS IS WHOLLY GOD AND WHOLLY HUMAN SIMULTANEOUSLY.
Re: [TruthTalk] Something to think about
So Lance IYO every time I cite Scripture it is in error? One of us is wrong and sadly we will have to wait until we are deceased to find out which one it is. I see yor doctrine as no different than the doctrine of Balaam which is in effect that ppl will make it with or without sin. There is no overcoming involved because of the "incarnation" - at least this is what I have been hearing from you. On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 14:46:52 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: You add your meaning to God's Word, Judy, 'almost' (I included this so as not to be identified by David as a blasphemer) every time you cite Scripture. How is that everyone on TT knows this while you do not? Excellent point JD And we should do the exact same thing with God's Words - that is, let Him be God and refrain from adding our meaning to His Word, or subtracting His meaning from His Word as has been done in the past and is ongoing today. His Word says that He hates mixture. His Word says that Jesus was/is pure and holy from His birth. I rest my case.. On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:53:54 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: OK -- so why not say it that way? When you say "Then he's a Mormon Jesus - who has a problem with that?" you are not speaking of a single aspect of the Mormon Jesus. You are equating Lance's teaching with Mormonism AND THE ASSOCIATED BIAS THAT EXISTS ON THIS FORUM. You are simply trying to win the argument with the use of such language. Words mean something. We should mean what we say and actually say what we mean. jd From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I'm speaking of one aspect ONLY JD and that is the "exactly like us" part. This tells me that those who make and profess such doctrines have no understanding or spiritual discernment and do not walk in the fear of God.. On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:45:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The God of the earth, the Mormon God of this earth, is some guy who made it on another planet and was given this planet as a reward! Where, in all that, Judy, do you see even a similarity between that view and the one that declares Christ to be both YHWH and Messian ??? If you truly believe this, you neither understand the Mormon God nor the Christian God. And, as I have said before -- your God is neither of the two. You stand alone with your thinking on this. Need I bring up BSF or your pastor again? Actually, Strong and Dakes probable [both] disagree with you. You stand alone. jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Then he's a Mormon Jesus ... who has a problem with that?? On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 09:19:52 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Jesus is neither unambiguously human with our humanity nor unambiguously God with God's divinity. This would make Jesus some 'third thing'. (Arianism) Sometimes you will hear people say 'Jesus is human all right but, he's more than human. That which is more than human isn't human. That which is less than God isn't God. So, said the Arians, Jesus is more than human but less than God. JESUS IS WHOLLY GOD AND WHOLLY HUMAN SIMULTANEOUSLY.
Re: [TruthTalk] Something to think about
I can't help myself Judy! When I re-read our correspondence, I invariably think of George Burns & Gracie Allen so, 'say goodnight Gracie'. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: January 19, 2006 15:05 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Something to think about So Lance IYO every time I cite Scripture it is in error? One of us is wrong and sadly we will have to wait until we are deceased to find out which one it is. I see yor doctrine as no different than the doctrine of Balaam which is in effect that ppl will make it with or without sin. There is no overcoming involved because of the "incarnation" - at least this is what I have been hearing from you. On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 14:46:52 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: You add your meaning to God's Word, Judy, 'almost' (I included this so as not to be identified by David as a blasphemer) every time you cite Scripture. How is that everyone on TT knows this while you do not? Excellent point JD And we should do the exact same thing with God's Words - that is, let Him be God and refrain from adding our meaning to His Word, or subtracting His meaning from His Word as has been done in the past and is ongoing today. His Word says that He hates mixture. His Word says that Jesus was/is pure and holy from His birth. I rest my case.. On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:53:54 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: OK -- so why not say it that way? When you say "Then he's a Mormon Jesus - who has a problem with that?" you are not speaking of a single aspect of the Mormon Jesus. You are equating Lance's teaching with Mormonism AND THE ASSOCIATED BIAS THAT EXISTS ON THIS FORUM. You are simply trying to win the argument with the use of such language. Words mean something. We should mean what we say and actually say what we mean. jd From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I'm speaking of one aspect ONLY JD and that is the "exactly like us" part. This tells me that those who make and profess such doctrines have no understanding or spiritual discernment and do not walk in the fear of God.. On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:45:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The God of the earth, the Mormon God of this earth, is some guy who made it on another planet and was given this planet as a reward! Where, in all that, Judy, do you see even a similarity between that view and the one that declares Christ to be both YHWH and Messian ??? If you truly believe this, you neither understand the Mormon God nor the Christian God. And, as I have said before -- your God is neither of the two. You stand alone with your thinking on this. Need I bring up BSF or your pastor again? Actually, Strong and Dakes probable [both] disagree with you. You stand alone. jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Then he's a Mormon Jesus ... who has a problem with that?? On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 09:19:52 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Jesus is neither unambiguously human with our humanity nor unambiguously God with God's divinity. This would make Jesus some 'third thing'. (Arianism) Sometimes you will hear people say 'Jesus is human all right but, he's more than human. That which is more than human isn't human. That which is less than God isn't God. So, said the Arians, Jesus is more than human but less than God. JESUS IS WHOLLY GOD AND WHOLLY HUMAN SIMULTANEOUSLY.
Re: [TruthTalk] Something to think about
Judy wrote: > If God was concerned enough about sin to curse > his creation at the start then why would he send > a Redeemer who is under the curse to take care > of things? Does not even make common sense. 1 Corinthians 1:18-19 (18) For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. (19) For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. 1 Corinthians 3:19 (19) For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. Jesus had to come under the curse in order to redeem those who were under the curse. It is kind of like how Moses had to leave the house of Pharaoh in order to redeem the Israelites. If God would just wave his hand and deliver people without ever becoming man and coming under the curse, there would be legal problems. He would be denying himself and his system of justice. It does not readily compute with our common sense, but it is truth nonetheless. The preaching of the cross sounds real foolish to the man of common sense, but it is the power and wisdom of God. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Something to think about
In a message dated 1/19/2006 8:13:01 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Isn't this a form of what the Mormon Church teaches Lance? Theirs is a flesh religion and they have no problems with purity and holiness Same with the so called "Church fathers" or patriarchs who came up with the pronouncements this generation mindlessly parrots. Judy, what are you trying to say, here, as you carelessly toss your half-formed ideas around? Flesh religion? What does that mean? And what does it mean we have "no problems with purity and holiness?" If you are speaking as an authority on Mormon religious thought, aren't you just a little out of your field? Blainerb
Re: [TruthTalk] Something to think about
Yes I probably am Blaine. Sorry about that and forgive me please. On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 21:36:41 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In a message dated 1/19/2006 8:13:01 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Isn't this a form of what the Mormon Church teaches Lance? Theirs is a flesh religion and they have no problems with purity and holiness Same with the so called "Church fathers" or patriarchs who came up with the pronouncements this generation mindlessly parrots. Judy, what are you trying to say, here, as you carelessly toss your half-formed ideas around? Flesh religion? What does that mean? And what does it mean we have "no problems with purity and holiness?" If you are speaking as an authority on Mormon religious thought, aren't you just a little out of your field? Blainerb
Re: [TruthTalk] Something to think about
In a message dated 1/19/2006 8:34:35 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: They do, their stance is that man is progressing toward godhood as they do what the church says and that basically God is a man from the planet Kolob. Where in the Bible are we told that Nowhere in the Bible, nor are we told that in any Mormon scripture. Judy, you're totally out of it! Your ignorance is bliss, maybe, huh? No Mormon believes God is a man from Kolob. No one lives on Kolob, as far as anyone knows, since it revolves on its axis only once per 1000 years. It is NEAR where God resides, not WHERE he resides. Its function as a huge, controlling planet was revealed to Abraham, as he sought to understand the workings of the universe. You do not give us much credit for smarts, is all I can say :>( By the way, were you aware the Milky Way Galaxy revolves, spins, like a giant, 4th of July pin wheel? Around what, can you tell us? What causes it to spin? Maybe your Bible can tell us--or maybe you can do that . . . Obviously, the Bible does not have the answer to everything, and I doubt you do either. Blainerb
Re: [TruthTalk] Something to think about
cd: Blaine I believe all the answers are in the Bible if one cares to search enough with believing faith and asking God for the answer-Men have always wanted to give an understanding of God that exists outside of the Bible that why cults profit and the only reason they exist. This started in the Garden with Satan: Yea,hath God said,...? - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 1/19/2006 10:09:54 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Something to think about In a message dated 1/19/2006 8:34:35 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: They do, their stance is that man is progressing toward godhood as they do what the church says and that basically God is a man from the planet Kolob. Where in the Bible are we told that Nowhere in the Bible, nor are we told that in any Mormon scripture. Judy, you're totally out of it! Your ignorance is bliss, maybe, huh? No Mormon believes God is a man from Kolob. No one lives on Kolob, as far as anyone knows, since it revolves on its axis only once per 1000 years. It is NEAR where God resides, not WHERE he resides. Its function as a huge, controlling planet was revealed to Abraham, as he sought to understand the workings of the universe. You do not give us much credit for smarts, is all I can say :>( By the way, were you aware the Milky Way Galaxy revolves, spins, like a giant, 4th of July pin wheel? Around what, can you tell us? What causes it to spin? Maybe your Bible can tell us--or maybe you can do that . . . Obviously, the Bible does not have the answer to everything, and I doubt you do either. Blainerb
Re: [TruthTalk] Something to think about(jd)
Yes. And, sometimes I think that we go too far in talking about the THREE in One. From our very limited perspective, there are three !! BUT, they are so presented in the biblical account, are they? I think Bill's discussion of Christ being both YHWH and Messiah is brilliant (mostly because I didn't think of it in just that way). When we read Matt 28 baptize them in the name of the Father, the Son , and the Holy Spirit, most of us see three distinct beings. And most of us are not aware that name in this text is a singular word. He didnt say, in the names of .. but in the name of .. Three in one. And that is as clear a statement of the three as we get. Look to Isa 9:6. Prince of peace, comforter, everlasting father all terms used to describe the incarnate Christ. It is not that Christ IS all three as the Oneness Doctrine proclaims. Rather, it is that He is the incarnation of the three. In Christ , we have all of God revealed (if you have seen me , you have seen the Father) and this combining, if you will, is accomplished with the same proclaiming of Messiah. That is the message of Peter. Christ was Messiah while in the flesh. Peter makes it clear that He was also YHWH -- at the same time. Doesnt the statement of Job 25 play into this discussion? How then can a man be just with God? Or , how can he be clean who is born of woman? If even the moon has no brightness and the stars are not pure in His sight, how much less man, [than] maggot, and the son of man [than] worm? (vv 4-6.) It seems to me that the use of son of Man as applied to Christ is not just an indicative proclaiming the reconciliation of man to God in Christ, but an acceptance, on the part of Christ, of the very predicament Debbie has mentioned. As son of Mankind, He shares in the same declared predicament as is common to all of us. The very question found in Psalms 8: 5 , What is man, that Thou dost take thought of him? And the son of mankind, that Thou dost care for Him? is a question that mirrors this human predicament. The writer is simply asking, Because man is who man is - how could God poss ibly be thoughtful of him , or the son of man[kind] that God would even care for him? Again, in Psalm 144:3-4, we see that the use of son of man is not to be separated from the lowliness of man, his ungodly distinction that separates him form God -- Man is like a mere breath, his days are a like a passing breath (Ps 144: 4.). God and man simultaneously gives me the impression that the distinctives which provide for the Christ to be what He was [is] are NOT distinctive as we view Christ. And because of that fact, we argue about who He is. Christ, as I understand Him, is not God and Man but God/man. Until Christ, God and mans predicament have been irreconcilable -- opposing realities that forced man to seek an intercessor. In Christ, the combining is so thorough as to be indistinguishable but wholly effective as the same time. When we look to Isa 9:6, we see the combining of all that is God in the Christ -- brought into this world as a child (born of a woman -- how can He be clean if born of a woman). All of this - man and his predicament and God with His manifested realities - are brought together in Jesus. And, just as I am not thought of in terms of parts, neither is the Christ. The fact of scripture is this: Christ cannot be spoken without declaring all of the above to be true at the same time. SIMULTANEOUS is, indeed, is the word for the day, Lance. jd -- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Jesus is neither unambiguously human with our humanity nor unambiguously God with God's divinity. This would make Jesus some 'third thing'. (Arianism) Sometimes you will hear people say 'Jesus is human all right but, he's more than human. That which is more than human isn't human. That which is less than God isn't God. So, said the Arians, Jesus is more than human but less than God. JESUS IS WHOLLY GOD AND WHOLLY HUMAN SIMULTANEOUSLY.
