Re: [tryton] Re: version 4 GL & balance reports

[Richard PALO]

Le 04/12/2016 à 12:30, Cédric Krier a écrit :

On 2016-12-04 07:59, Richard PALO wrote:

As a side note, seems a bit heavy if tryton needs to read all previous
years to get starting balance (I most certinaly hope not).

It is not heaving and indeed it is even a speedup.

I see, account_account_deferral comes in for caching here. Great.


3. with movements (in the period)

This could probably be done by creating a Function field that returns
the number of moves.


seems there should probably also be an option simply to include or not the 
'start balance' as well

Do you mean that you want to have a column with debit - credit ?


Well, for a balance report, it is useful to have either extra column for 
initial balance, or both debit and credit,
but this is probably a simple matter of report formatting which could be site 
specific.

For me, it is not necessary on trial balance because the goal is to show
that the accounts are balanced so if start and and balance sum equals 0
and debit equals credit sum, it is OK.


To be clear, what I meant about including or not 'start balance' is for the 
case where
an extract is requested of only the mouvements during the period should show up 
on 'end balance'

In this case, 'start balance' column is not used in computing the 'end 
balance', and needs
not be included, but if displayed, the values should necessarily be '0,00'.

with 'start balance'
Account | Start Balance | Debit | Credit | Debit - Credit - Start Balance   
(like now)

without
Account | 0,00 | Debit | Credit | Debit - Credit
or simply (facultive)
Account | Debit | Credit | Debit - Credit

For GL it is typically an additional line prior to the moves for the period.

There is already.

yes, indeed... but the request is similar.

while suppressing the non-intuitive behaviour currently of 4.x selecting by 
default only the first account.

That's default behaviour to select the first record, I do not think it
will change.


For a report, this is not intuitive though perhaps a 'selection only' option 
that limits output to what is
selected on the screen could continue to provide current behaviour...

It is better to have always the same behaviour in the all application.
Any action applies on what is selected.

Well, normally, selection is an active process. But when these missing filters 
are available,
they can be saved and this process will be much improved.

But have you tried to select only used
accounts (say 200-300) out of 1200 in e.g. the French accounting plan?

Use the filters.

I guess that brings us back to the subject at hand ;-)

There seems to miss as well a means to be able to select only non-reconciled 
entries (relative to the
accounting year), which appears to be a crucial need expressed by accountants 
and legal auditors.

I do not understand exactly what you mean. For me, there is no sense to
care about non-reconciled per fiscal year. Also I do not see the point
to care about them individually, we have the Aged Balance for that.


Balance is not interesting for this, although auxiliary balance/GL is also 
necessary,
what is expected is a GL *detailing* only non-reconciled entries, typically for 
year-end
(or periodic situation) closing.

What is the point? It is useless in Tryton because non-deferral lines
stay.


Well, as already mentioned prior (I believe in tryton-fr and in the issue 
tracker), the accountant and legal auditor ask

for it, as well as the decision maker who wants a report of only these 'open' 
entries, for readability purposes.

cordially,

--
Richard PALO

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Re: [tryton-dev] Proposal for to do Sao more responsive

[Cédric Krier]

On 2016-12-05 13:10, Oscar Alvarez wrote:
> On 04/12/16 21:02, Cédric Krier wrote:
> > On 2016-12-04 11:00, Oscar Alvarez wrote:
> > > 1. Use placeholders, instead of [ label: field ]
> > This is not practical because Tryton forms are not fill once form, they
> > are used also for consultation. So your proposal makes it not possible
> > to know what is the label of a field once it is filled.
> I think that when the users dubts of field name (new users), they can be
> push a button or option menu and this change view to classic mode (current),
> so another way can be to stay pushed this button and the name fields are
> revealed, he idea is to do usable Sao on Smartphones for example for
> companies with sellers that has out of company to visit to customer and to
> do sales on retail clients using a smartphone.

"Button pushed"? I can not follow you, you are talking to improve for
mobile.

> > > 3. Some function (numeric) fields can be render in one line [field name :
> > > value] (see amount values on screen shot) this style can be to defined on
> > > xml views
> > But there is no way to know that in advance.
> > Maybe you are talking about list view, this is done table.responsive.
> > The virtual could maybe tuned to go on the same line if there are enough
> > places.
>   Because I think is necessary add new tag to xml views (form, tree) instead
> we will use (form, tree, app_form, app_tree), if app_* is missing tryton
> render with defaults form and tree style.

I will be strongly against such feature. This would be the roots of so
many issues.

> > > If you are agree I can add this to discuss as a proposal, and help with
> > > coding.
> > I do not see the point to create a discuss if we agree.
> > Indeed, it is only possible to discuss such change on a patch. So you
> > can create an issue with the patch per improvement.
> > 
> https://bugs.tryton.org/issue6093

I think I was not clear enough. We need *patches* to talk and patches
that change only one thing at a time (otherwise it is not possible to
review). Your vague issue/wish is useless.

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Re: [tryton-dev] Proposal for to do Sao more responsive

[Diego Abad]

El lunes, 5 de diciembre de 2016, 13:10:51 (UTC-5), oscar_alvarez escribió:
>
> On 04/12/16 21:02, Cédric Krier wrote:
>
> On 2016-12-04 11:00, Oscar Alvarez wrote:
>
> 1. Use placeholders, instead of [ label: field ]
>
> This is not practical because Tryton forms are not fill once form, they
> are used also for consultation. So your proposal makes it not possible
> to know what is the label of a field once it is filled.
>
> I think that when the users dubts of field name (new users), they can be 
> push a button or option menu and this change view to classic mode 
> (current), so another way can be to stay pushed this button and the name 
> fields are revealed, he idea is to do usable Sao on Smartphones for example 
> for companies with sellers that has out of company to visit to customer and 
> to do sales on retail clients using a smartphone.
>

Maybe label should be load as a pop up, in case that form is filled. 

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Re: [tryton-dev] Proposal for to do Sao more responsive

[Oscar Alvarez]

On 04/12/16 21:02, Cédric Krier wrote:

On 2016-12-04 11:00, Oscar Alvarez wrote:

1. Use placeholders, instead of [ label: field ]

This is not practical because Tryton forms are not fill once form, they
are used also for consultation. So your proposal makes it not possible
to know what is the label of a field once it is filled.
I think that when the users dubts of field name (new users), they can be 
push a button or option menu and this change view to classic mode 
(current), so another way can be to stay pushed this button and the name 
fields are revealed, he idea is to do usable Sao on Smartphones for 
example for companies with sellers that has out of company to visit to 
customer and to do sales on retail clients using a smartphone.

2. Internal tabs can be changed with (>) button instead try render all tabs

Yes, that would be good but I'm not aware of such feature in bootstrap.


3. Some function (numeric) fields can be render in one line [field name :
value] (see amount values on screen shot) this style can be to defined on
xml views

But there is no way to know that in advance.
Maybe you are talking about list view, this is done table.responsive.
The virtual could maybe tuned to go on the same line if there are enough
places.
  Because I think is necessary add new tag to xml views (form, tree) 
instead we will use (form, tree, app_form, app_tree), if app_* is 
missing tryton render with defaults form and tree style.

4. That just one Module Tab is showed, not all modules Tabs open

I do not understand what you name "Module Tab".
Sorry, I am talking about top Tabs, You can view an example in attach 
file, you can note just "*Sales*" form view is showed, instead all tabs 
opened.

5. Toolbar just show main buttons (most used), other buttons is in "More..."

Why not but it should work for any size.


6. Lines records can be showed as Tag ( I am no sure if this right name)
this way the space is used to the maximum, adding two tooltip button (edit,
delete).

I think it is a wrong direction to add specific view because they will
not be tested. And the table.responsive is already in some way creating
such view but it could be improved by hiding empty values maybe.
For the button, it will probably be better to have the xxx2Many toolbar
being affix.
Ok is just crazy idea, but the current process the add new line it would 
follow same, (+) button open a popup window with current fields to fill 
(nothing change), I think that in this popup the fields are tested, but 
when the test is ok, popup is closed and the fields and values are 
render in tree view with tag 'style'.

If you are agree I can add this to discuss as a proposal, and help with
coding.

I do not see the point to create a discuss if we agree.
Indeed, it is only possible to discuss such change on a patch. So you
can create an issue with the patch per improvement.


https://bugs.tryton.org/issue6093

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Re: [tryton] Invoice Location

[Carlos Eduardo Sotelo Pinto]

2016-12-05 10:42 GMT-05:00 Cédric Krier :

> On 2016-12-05 09:53, Carlos Eduardo Sotelo Pinto wrote:
> > Question: If I have solved this issue, whay I am asking here? well I am
> > building a module that I would like been compatible with tryton comunity
> > guidelines in order on let this module as free and open for the comunity
>
> OK, I will just answer this because others point have already been
> answered.
> No you did not, the Tryton way is using identifier and unicity
> constraint is almost never good. As Fernando pointed there is always
> exceptions. Also it is not a matter of unicity but validity, if you want
> to prevent user from mistakes, you must validate the input so he can not
> invent a wrong number.
>
> --
> Cédric Krier - B2CK SPRL
> Email/Jabber: cedric.kr...@b2ck.com
> Tel: +32 472 54 46 59
> Website: http://www.b2ck.com/
>
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​Ok

Sounds better

About the invoicing, I have noticed something similar, and more complex on
Argentina.

I will been completeing it this end of month and waiting for libertate
these modules firth day of 2017 and get the tryton community approval.

best regards ​


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Re: [tryton] Invoice Location

[Carlos Eduardo Sotelo Pinto]

Hi Fernando

According with the "Facturacion Electronica" and "Libros Electronicos" is
yes, is a request, I was two weeks ago with the accountant checking that,
also with a lawyer, and said that. That is the reason.

About having a RUC and DNI, well, for tax Authority are two different people

- With DNI is a common person, and Boleta is just the document required
- With RUC is a company,

Is no legal having both as identifiers. I have checked it with a lawyer

I am trying to make this according the tryton way since I am looking for
make this module free and open, and could be good for all peruavian people
working with tryton on Peru

best reagrds

2016-12-05 9:29 GMT-05:00 Fernando Sánchez :

> Hello carlos
> Is not very correct that in Peru a physical person should have only one
> identifier, I have dni and ruc just like you. And it is also not correct to
> say that only one company can request the receipt with code "01 FACTURA".
> In LiberOrbis we are also working in the Peruvian accounting and fiscal
> location of tryton and we did not have the problem that you indicate. If
> the customer (company or not) has ID code equal to 6 (RUC) tryton
> automatically choose the payment receipt with code "01 FACTURA" otherwise
> "03 BOLETA DE VENTA"
>
> Greetings
>
> Fernando Sanchez
> LiberOrbis
>
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Re: [tryton] Invoice Location

[Cédric Krier]

On 2016-12-05 09:53, Carlos Eduardo Sotelo Pinto wrote:
> Question: If I have solved this issue, whay I am asking here? well I am
> building a module that I would like been compatible with tryton comunity
> guidelines in order on let this module as free and open for the comunity

OK, I will just answer this because others point have already been
answered.
No you did not, the Tryton way is using identifier and unicity
constraint is almost never good. As Fernando pointed there is always
exceptions. Also it is not a matter of unicity but validity, if you want
to prevent user from mistakes, you must validate the input so he can not
invent a wrong number.

-- 
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Email/Jabber: cedric.kr...@b2ck.com
Tel: +32 472 54 46 59
Website: http://www.b2ck.com/

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Re: [tryton] Invoice Location

[Carlos Eduardo Sotelo Pinto]

Sorry for the typewritting mistakes

2016-12-05 5:53 GMT-05:00 Cédric Krier :

> On 2016-12-05 05:15, Carlos Eduardo Sotelo Pinto wrote:
> > Hello
> >
> > 2016-12-04 20:39 GMT-05:00 Cédric Krier :
> >
> > > On 2016-12-04 12:04, Carlos Eduardo Sotelo Pinto wrote:
> > > > *-- Parties on tryton let to add more than one identifier, that
> makes me
> > > a
> > > > legal issue on a before implementation that I have done, since **tax
> > > > autority said it must not be done on this way because each party must
> > > have
> > > > just one identifier an no more than one.*
> > >
> > > I can not believe you that tax authorities have requirement on how a
> > > software should be designed.
> > >
> >
> > ​I have never said that!!!
> >
> > What I have said is , there is no a way to manage indetifiers on this
> way:
> >
> > - a Code
> > - a Description name
> >
> > *CODE| Description *
> > ==
> > * 0 | DOC.TRIB.NO.DOM.SIN.RUC
> > * 1 | DOC. NACIONAL DE IDENTIDAD
> > * 4 | CARNET DE EXTRANJERIA
> > * 6 | REG. UNICO DE CONTRIBUYENTES
> > * 7 | PASAPORTE
> > * A | CED. DIPLOMATICA DE IDENTIDAD​
> >
> > If identifiers has no a way to manage identifiers on this way, then
> > software doesnt work. just that, simple, since repots need that
> > codification, reports dont need names, reports need the *Code on Reports*
> >
> > But is no legal having this:
> >
> > - Many identifiers per party, this screen was observed. I have fixed it
> on
> > the implementartion, but on custom modules, anyway, the software doesnt
> > fill restrictions.
>
> So you actually said it and I can not believe it.
>
​I understand that functionlity is ok, however doesnt full the full
structure.

- Identifiers on Tryton are just [Type, Name] and let more than one
identifier.
  It looks like a many to many relation ship
​- ​I nned something to [Code, Description] closed list but the
identifiers, yes, a list for it for chose one from the list and no more
than the list, like a one to many relation ship.

Yes, this is a requirement from the tax authority
- Each party must have one, nad no more than one identifier choosen from
the list provided

Requirement from my customers
- Let the admin or the user responsible on register customers to choose
more than one identifier, could make this user get into mistakes, related
to regitration with multiple identifier, they prefer just a simple list to
chose one of the list provided by the tax authority

*CODE| Description *
==
* 0 | DOC.TRIB.NO.DOM.SIN.RUC
* 1 | DOC. NACIONAL DE IDENTIDAD
* 4 | CARNET DE EXTRANJERIA
* 6 | REG. UNICO DE CONTRIBUYENTES
* 7 | PASAPORTE
* A | CED. DIPLOMATICA DE IDENTIDAD​


> >
> > > I can not see how what you describe can be a legal issue. Of course if
> a
> > > party can be assigned only one of those numbers by the authorities,
> > > there are no reason you magically enter more than one.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ​Yes you are right!! but users, if the user makes a mistake, could get
> into
> > a legal issue and get more than USD 1000.00 on penalties for a user
> mistake
> > ( sometimes is no a mistake and the company would like to avoid any kind
> of
> > mistake as possible )​
>
> Just like any mistakes a user can do. Software can not correct mistakes.
>

​Yes, but It is possible to ​reduce de probability on make mistakes, at
least on our requirements


>
> > Again, I have soled this issue on custom modules,
>
> I do not understand "soled".
>
​
I mean, ​on older customers, I have solved this issue hidden the
identifiers seccion and adding a Selecction Box with the requirements list,
and one more textbox for the number of the identification document.

That solution worked for me and my customers, and filled tax authority
requirements

Question: If I have solved this issue, whay I am asking here? well I am
building a module that I would like been compatible with tryton comunity
guidelines in order on let this module as free and open for the comunity

Best regards


> > hidden identifiers and create a selection field, that runs for me, my
> > customer and tax autgority with mnking issues.
>
> I do not understand "mnking".
>
> > The reason on asking here is, I am designing a trytonic module in order
> on
> > solve this issue on a trytonic way without breaking tryton design or
> rules
> > , or guidelines for make this module free to the comunity.
>
> I can not give any advise because the requirements described are not
> clear nor complete.
>
> --
> Cédric Krier - B2CK SPRL
> Email/Jabber: cedric.kr...@b2ck.com
> Tel: +32 472 54 46 59
> Website: http://www.b2ck.com/
>
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>



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Senior Software Developer
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GTalk: 

Re: [tryton] Invoice Location

[Fernando Sánchez]

Hello carlos
Is not very correct that in Peru a physical person should have only one 
identifier, I have dni and ruc just like you. And it is also not correct to say 
that only one company can request the receipt with code "01 FACTURA". In 
LiberOrbis we are also working in the Peruvian accounting and fiscal location 
of tryton and we did not have the problem that you indicate. If the customer 
(company or not) has ID code equal to 6 (RUC) tryton automatically choose the 
payment receipt with code "01 FACTURA" otherwise "03 BOLETA DE VENTA"

Greetings

Fernando Sanchez
LiberOrbis

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Re: [tryton] Invoice Location

[Cédric Krier]

On 2016-12-05 05:15, Carlos Eduardo Sotelo Pinto wrote:
> Hello
> 
> 2016-12-04 20:39 GMT-05:00 Cédric Krier :
> 
> > On 2016-12-04 12:04, Carlos Eduardo Sotelo Pinto wrote:
> > > *-- Parties on tryton let to add more than one identifier, that makes me
> > a
> > > legal issue on a before implementation that I have done, since **tax
> > > autority said it must not be done on this way because each party must
> > have
> > > just one identifier an no more than one.*
> >
> > I can not believe you that tax authorities have requirement on how a
> > software should be designed.
> >
> 
> ​I have never said that!!!
> 
> What I have said is , there is no a way to manage indetifiers on this way:
> 
> - a Code
> - a Description name
> 
> *CODE| Description *
> ==
> * 0 | DOC.TRIB.NO.DOM.SIN.RUC
> * 1 | DOC. NACIONAL DE IDENTIDAD
> * 4 | CARNET DE EXTRANJERIA
> * 6 | REG. UNICO DE CONTRIBUYENTES
> * 7 | PASAPORTE
> * A | CED. DIPLOMATICA DE IDENTIDAD​
> 
> If identifiers has no a way to manage identifiers on this way, then
> software doesnt work. just that, simple, since repots need that
> codification, reports dont need names, reports need the *Code on Reports*
> 
> But is no legal having this:
> 
> - Many identifiers per party, this screen was observed. I have fixed it on
> the implementartion, but on custom modules, anyway, the software doesnt
> fill restrictions.

So you actually said it and I can not believe it.

> 
> > I can not see how what you describe can be a legal issue. Of course if a
> > party can be assigned only one of those numbers by the authorities,
> > there are no reason you magically enter more than one.
> >
> >
> 
> ​Yes you are right!! but users, if the user makes a mistake, could get into
> a legal issue and get more than USD 1000.00 on penalties for a user mistake
> ( sometimes is no a mistake and the company would like to avoid any kind of
> mistake as possible )​

Just like any mistakes a user can do. Software can not correct mistakes.

> Again, I have soled this issue on custom modules,

I do not understand "soled".

> hidden identifiers and create a selection field, that runs for me, my
> customer and tax autgority with mnking issues.

I do not understand "mnking".

> The reason on asking here is, I am designing a trytonic module in order on
> solve this issue on a trytonic way without breaking tryton design or rules
> , or guidelines for make this module free to the comunity.

I can not give any advise because the requirements described are not
clear nor complete.

-- 
Cédric Krier - B2CK SPRL
Email/Jabber: cedric.kr...@b2ck.com
Tel: +32 472 54 46 59
Website: http://www.b2ck.com/

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Re: [tryton] Invoice Location

[Carlos Eduardo Sotelo Pinto]

Hello

2016-12-04 20:39 GMT-05:00 Cédric Krier :

> On 2016-12-04 12:04, Carlos Eduardo Sotelo Pinto wrote:
> > *-- Parties on tryton let to add more than one identifier, that makes me
> a
> > legal issue on a before implementation that I have done, since **tax
> > autority said it must not be done on this way because each party must
> have
> > just one identifier an no more than one.*
>
> I can not believe you that tax authorities have requirement on how a
> software should be designed.
>

​I have never said that!!!

What I have said is , there is no a way to manage indetifiers on this way:

- a Code
- a Description name

*CODE| Description *
==
* 0 | DOC.TRIB.NO.DOM.SIN.RUC
* 1 | DOC. NACIONAL DE IDENTIDAD
* 4 | CARNET DE EXTRANJERIA
* 6 | REG. UNICO DE CONTRIBUYENTES
* 7 | PASAPORTE
* A | CED. DIPLOMATICA DE IDENTIDAD​

If identifiers has no a way to manage identifiers on this way, then
software doesnt work. just that, simple, since repots need that
codification, reports dont need names, reports need the *Code on Reports*

But is no legal having this:

- Many identifiers per party, this screen was observed. I have fixed it on
the implementartion, but on custom modules, anyway, the software doesnt
fill restrictions.


​



> I can not see how what you describe can be a legal issue. Of course if a
> party can be assigned only one of those numbers by the authorities,
> there are no reason you magically enter more than one.
>
>

​Yes you are right!! but users, if the user makes a mistake, could get into
a legal issue and get more than USD 1000.00 on penalties for a user mistake
( sometimes is no a mistake and the company would like to avoid any kind of
mistake as possible )​ Again, I have soled this issue on custom modules,
hidden identifiers and create a selection field, that runs for me, my
customer and tax autgority with mnking issues.

The reason on asking here is, I am designing a trytonic module in order on
solve this issue on a trytonic way without breaking tryton design or rules
, or guidelines for make this module free to the comunity.

After review requirements and some extra local erps and invoicing software,
I have done that ER diagram, since it is accoording to the tax authority

Best regards



> Until this point is not clarify, I will not talk any other topics.
>
> --
> Cédric Krier - B2CK SPRL
> Email/Jabber: cedric.kr...@b2ck.com
> Tel: +32 472 54 46 59
> Website: http://www.b2ck.com/
>
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> msgid/tryton/20161205013927.GL71015%40tetsuo.
>



-- 
Carlos Eduardo Sotelo Pinto
Senior Software Developer
Claro RPC +51 989550602
GTalk: carlos.sotelo.pi...@gmail.com | Skype: csotelop
GNULinux RU #379182 | GNULinux RM #277661

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