Re: Email versus IRC
For what it's worth, I like that approach too. I'm with Pete on this, in general I dislike IRC, although I can see there are times when it is useful. I particularly like the idea that the subjects for the regular IRC chat should be announced in advance as far as possible. I think that will help a lot. Regards, Geoff. On 06/07/06, Jeremy Boynes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd like to see if I can recap where this thread went. There seem to be two sets of opinion: 1) that regular scheduled chats are helpful 2) that impromptu, unscheduled chats are helpful In light of this, I'd like to propose the following IRC policy for the project: == We will hold a regular scheduled chat at the current time (15:30GMT every Monday) to discuss non-urgent things that people may be interested in. Subjects should be posted to the list in advance so that people can make a decision on whether to attend; attendance is encouraged but optional. The folk that show up get to choose what is discussed. We will also hold pre-announced chats at other times so try and bring closure to issues that seem to be dragging on in email threads. The point of these is to come to a decision and such outcomes must be posted to the list for all to review. It is the discussion on the list that is binding. In general we will encourage community members to hang out on the IRC channel so that anyone can hold an impromptu discussion with folk that happen to be around. We especially encourage committers to be available so that new users have a way to reach someone. Any decisions should be summarized to the list. == I hope that captures everyone's thoughts and if so I'd suggest we put it on the website. If not, how about meeting on IRC to close this out? -- Jeremy On Jul 5, 2006, at 3:04 AM, ant elder wrote: There's a thread going on over on incubator-general about the use of IRC: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=11511128601r=1w=2 Are people happy with having our current weekly hour long IRC chat? I find the chat a useful way to find whats going on and gauge peoples opinions. A 1 hour chat isn't so long that its hard to read the chat log, we could probably do better at providing a summary of what was said, and maybe post the log and summary on the wiki so its easier to find. So I think the current chat is useful and works ok but we can change this if others don't like it. Currently the chat focus has been primarily Java SCA, should we try and include C++ or SDO or DAS more? Or have separate extra chats for those? Often the chat is one long rambling conversation, should we try to be more structured and have a set 10 minutes for this, 10 minutes for that type of thing to just get a regular status and have any followup discussion on the mailing list? Is the 15:30GMT on Monday time slot ok? What do you think? ...ant - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email versus IRC
On 7/6/06, Jim Marino [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: at the squash courts ;-) That's for the healthy, athletic guys - us cooler types hang out behind the bike sheds, smoking woodbines and cracking jokes ;-)
Re: Email versus IRC
You'll get a rise of this: I'm in Rome now and the other day I was out doing my run, all sweaty, in terrible heat, and I run past this women and she asks if I have a lighter for her cigarette :-) Classic Italy. Jim On Jul 6, 2006, at 2:10 AM, Andrew Borley wrote: On 7/6/06, Jim Marino [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: at the squash courts ;-) That's for the healthy, athletic guys - us cooler types hang out behind the bike sheds, smoking woodbines and cracking jokes ;-) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email versus IRC
I'd like to see if I can recap where this thread went. There seem to be two sets of opinion: 1) that regular scheduled chats are helpful 2) that impromptu, unscheduled chats are helpful In light of this, I'd like to propose the following IRC policy for the project: == We will hold a regular scheduled chat at the current time (15:30GMT every Monday) to discuss non-urgent things that people may be interested in. Subjects should be posted to the list in advance so that people can make a decision on whether to attend; attendance is encouraged but optional. The folk that show up get to choose what is discussed. We will also hold pre-announced chats at other times so try and bring closure to issues that seem to be dragging on in email threads. The point of these is to come to a decision and such outcomes must be posted to the list for all to review. It is the discussion on the list that is binding. In general we will encourage community members to hang out on the IRC channel so that anyone can hold an impromptu discussion with folk that happen to be around. We especially encourage committers to be available so that new users have a way to reach someone. Any decisions should be summarized to the list. == I hope that captures everyone's thoughts and if so I'd suggest we put it on the website. If not, how about meeting on IRC to close this out? -- Jeremy On Jul 5, 2006, at 3:04 AM, ant elder wrote: There's a thread going on over on incubator-general about the use of IRC: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=11511128601r=1w=2 Are people happy with having our current weekly hour long IRC chat? I find the chat a useful way to find whats going on and gauge peoples opinions. A 1 hour chat isn't so long that its hard to read the chat log, we could probably do better at providing a summary of what was said, and maybe post the log and summary on the wiki so its easier to find. So I think the current chat is useful and works ok but we can change this if others don't like it. Currently the chat focus has been primarily Java SCA, should we try and include C++ or SDO or DAS more? Or have separate extra chats for those? Often the chat is one long rambling conversation, should we try to be more structured and have a set 10 minutes for this, 10 minutes for that type of thing to just get a regular status and have any followup discussion on the mailing list? Is the 15:30GMT on Monday time slot ok? What do you think? ...ant - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email versus IRC
+1 that just about covers it from my point of view. I'd also be interested in experimenting with a 1hr email session. Email is pretty fast nowadays and refreshing and responding via the mailing list could also work. It would also remove the really annoying thing about IRC which is the loss of context on the msgs. For example: Fred: I propose X as the best solution Joe: Y is better Bill: I agree Of course Bill was actually agreeing with Fred but the pathetically slow IRC response (at least on my system) combined with many people talking at once causes confusion. I guess I just don't like IRC ;-) I will attend when I can tho... On 06/07/06, Jeremy Boynes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd like to see if I can recap where this thread went. There seem to be two sets of opinion: 1) that regular scheduled chats are helpful 2) that impromptu, unscheduled chats are helpful In light of this, I'd like to propose the following IRC policy for the project: == We will hold a regular scheduled chat at the current time (15:30GMT every Monday) to discuss non-urgent things that people may be interested in. Subjects should be posted to the list in advance so that people can make a decision on whether to attend; attendance is encouraged but optional. The folk that show up get to choose what is discussed. We will also hold pre-announced chats at other times so try and bring closure to issues that seem to be dragging on in email threads. The point of these is to come to a decision and such outcomes must be posted to the list for all to review. It is the discussion on the list that is binding. In general we will encourage community members to hang out on the IRC channel so that anyone can hold an impromptu discussion with folk that happen to be around. We especially encourage committers to be available so that new users have a way to reach someone. Any decisions should be summarized to the list. == I hope that captures everyone's thoughts and if so I'd suggest we put it on the website. If not, how about meeting on IRC to close this out? -- Jeremy On Jul 5, 2006, at 3:04 AM, ant elder wrote: There's a thread going on over on incubator-general about the use of IRC: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=11511128601r=1w=2 Are people happy with having our current weekly hour long IRC chat? I find the chat a useful way to find whats going on and gauge peoples opinions. A 1 hour chat isn't so long that its hard to read the chat log, we could probably do better at providing a summary of what was said, and maybe post the log and summary on the wiki so its easier to find. So I think the current chat is useful and works ok but we can change this if others don't like it. Currently the chat focus has been primarily Java SCA, should we try and include C++ or SDO or DAS more? Or have separate extra chats for those? Often the chat is one long rambling conversation, should we try to be more structured and have a set 10 minutes for this, 10 minutes for that type of thing to just get a regular status and have any followup discussion on the mailing list? Is the 15:30GMT on Monday time slot ok? What do you think? ...ant - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Pete
Re: Email versus IRC
On Jul 6, 2006, at 2:22 PM, Jeremy Boynes wrote: I'd like to see if I can recap where this thread went. There seem to be two sets of opinion: 1) that regular scheduled chats are helpful 2) that impromptu, unscheduled chats are helpful In light of this, I'd like to propose the following IRC policy for the project: == We will hold a regular scheduled chat at the current time (15:30GMT every Monday) to discuss non-urgent things that people may be interested in. Subjects should be posted to the list in advance so that people can make a decision on whether to attend; attendance is encouraged but optional. The folk that show up get to choose what is discussed. We will also hold pre-announced chats at other times so try and bring closure to issues that seem to be dragging on in email threads. The point of these is to come to a decision and such outcomes must be posted to the list for all to review. It is the discussion on the list that is binding. I like all of this except the above. I thought decisions of substance cannot be made on IRC? It sounds unfair since people oftentimes cannot attend. I have no problems with discussions but decision making should be on the list. I hate to be a contrarian on this point but I feel it is important. In general we will encourage community members to hang out on the IRC channel so that anyone can hold an impromptu discussion with folk that happen to be around. We especially encourage committers to be available so that new users have a way to reach someone. Any decisions should be summarized to the list. == I hope that captures everyone's thoughts and if so I'd suggest we put it on the website. If not, how about meeting on IRC to close this out? No :-) Let's close it out on this list. -- Jeremy On Jul 5, 2006, at 3:04 AM, ant elder wrote: There's a thread going on over on incubator-general about the use of IRC: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=11511128601r=1w=2 Are people happy with having our current weekly hour long IRC chat? I find the chat a useful way to find whats going on and gauge peoples opinions. A 1 hour chat isn't so long that its hard to read the chat log, we could probably do better at providing a summary of what was said, and maybe post the log and summary on the wiki so its easier to find. So I think the current chat is useful and works ok but we can change this if others don't like it. Currently the chat focus has been primarily Java SCA, should we try and include C++ or SDO or DAS more? Or have separate extra chats for those? Often the chat is one long rambling conversation, should we try to be more structured and have a set 10 minutes for this, 10 minutes for that type of thing to just get a regular status and have any followup discussion on the mailing list? Is the 15:30GMT on Monday time slot ok? What do you think? ...ant - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email versus IRC
On Jul 6, 2006, at 3:04 PM, Jim Marino wrote: On Jul 6, 2006, at 2:22 PM, Jeremy Boynes wrote: We will also hold pre-announced chats at other times so try and bring closure to issues that seem to be dragging on in email threads. The point of these is to come to a decision and such outcomes must be posted to the list for all to review. It is the discussion on the list that is binding. I like all of this except the above. I thought decisions of substance cannot be made on IRC? It sounds unfair since people oftentimes cannot attend. I have no problems with discussions but decision making should be on the list. I hate to be a contrarian on this point but I feel it is important. The intention here was to provide a mechanism to handle discussions from the list that were just going on and on. Critical is that the discussion started on the list and would conclude on the list. I was trying to capture that the point of the chat would be to tackle a specific issue rather than just have your typical rambling IRC thread :-) Would it work for you to say that the point of the chat would be to have a focused discussion? -- Jeremy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email versus IRC
On 7/6/06, Jeremy Boynes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jul 6, 2006, at 3:04 PM, Jim Marino wrote: On Jul 6, 2006, at 2:22 PM, Jeremy Boynes wrote: We will also hold pre-announced chats at other times so try and bring closure to issues that seem to be dragging on in email threads. The point of these is to come to a decision and such outcomes must be posted to the list for all to review. It is the discussion on the list that is binding. I like all of this except the above. I thought decisions of substance cannot be made on IRC? It sounds unfair since people oftentimes cannot attend. I have no problems with discussions but decision making should be on the list. I hate to be a contrarian on this point but I feel it is important. The intention here was to provide a mechanism to handle discussions from the list that were just going on and on. Critical is that the discussion started on the list and would conclude on the list. I was trying to capture that the point of the chat would be to tackle a specific issue rather than just have your typical rambling IRC thread :-) Would it work for you to say that the point of the chat would be to have a focused discussion? +1 -- I think we should consider IRC a great venue for arbitrary sets of folks to come to consensus amongst themselves, which will ultimately help build consensus amongst everyone on the email list. I for one tend to avoid IRC because of frequent firewall issues. Plus, I have enough scheduled/realtime meetings/appointments that I really don't need one more :) thanks, k - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email versus IRC
yea that's cool. I just thought if a decision was made on IRC it couldn't be undone by a vote on the list. I like the idea of using quick chats to clear out lingering things and then have them ratified on the list. Jim On Jul 6, 2006, at 4:02 PM, Jeremy Boynes wrote: On Jul 6, 2006, at 3:04 PM, Jim Marino wrote: On Jul 6, 2006, at 2:22 PM, Jeremy Boynes wrote: We will also hold pre-announced chats at other times so try and bring closure to issues that seem to be dragging on in email threads. The point of these is to come to a decision and such outcomes must be posted to the list for all to review. It is the discussion on the list that is binding. I like all of this except the above. I thought decisions of substance cannot be made on IRC? It sounds unfair since people oftentimes cannot attend. I have no problems with discussions but decision making should be on the list. I hate to be a contrarian on this point but I feel it is important. The intention here was to provide a mechanism to handle discussions from the list that were just going on and on. Critical is that the discussion started on the list and would conclude on the list. I was trying to capture that the point of the chat would be to tackle a specific issue rather than just have your typical rambling IRC thread :-) Would it work for you to say that the point of the chat would be to have a focused discussion? -- Jeremy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email versus IRC
+1 and I stick to my earlier suggestion that the topics of discussion be fixed ahead over the mailing list instead of choosing the topics over the list and then actually picking them up for discussion only in the IRC. Choosing them ahead brings in a committment that a topic would surely get discussed and hence the interested folks will make it point to attend and voice their opinions. The reason I say this is that one could land up in an IRC, prepared and then find that his / her topic is way down the list and when the chance has finally come everybody has run out of time and have jumped off. That turns out to be very disappointing. Thanks. - Venkat On 7/7/06, Jeremy Boynes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd like to see if I can recap where this thread went. There seem to be two sets of opinion: 1) that regular scheduled chats are helpful 2) that impromptu, unscheduled chats are helpful In light of this, I'd like to propose the following IRC policy for the project: == We will hold a regular scheduled chat at the current time (15:30GMT every Monday) to discuss non-urgent things that people may be interested in. Subjects should be posted to the list in advance so that people can make a decision on whether to attend; attendance is encouraged but optional. The folk that show up get to choose what is discussed. We will also hold pre-announced chats at other times so try and bring closure to issues that seem to be dragging on in email threads. The point of these is to come to a decision and such outcomes must be posted to the list for all to review. It is the discussion on the list that is binding. In general we will encourage community members to hang out on the IRC channel so that anyone can hold an impromptu discussion with folk that happen to be around. We especially encourage committers to be available so that new users have a way to reach someone. Any decisions should be summarized to the list. == I hope that captures everyone's thoughts and if so I'd suggest we put it on the website. If not, how about meeting on IRC to close this out? -- Jeremy On Jul 5, 2006, at 3:04 AM, ant elder wrote: There's a thread going on over on incubator-general about the use of IRC: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=11511128601r=1w=2 Are people happy with having our current weekly hour long IRC chat? I find the chat a useful way to find whats going on and gauge peoples opinions. A 1 hour chat isn't so long that its hard to read the chat log, we could probably do better at providing a summary of what was said, and maybe post the log and summary on the wiki so its easier to find. So I think the current chat is useful and works ok but we can change this if others don't like it. Currently the chat focus has been primarily Java SCA, should we try and include C++ or SDO or DAS more? Or have separate extra chats for those? Often the chat is one long rambling conversation, should we try to be more structured and have a set 10 minutes for this, 10 minutes for that type of thing to just get a regular status and have any followup discussion on the mailing list? Is the 15:30GMT on Monday time slot ok? What do you think? ...ant - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Email versus IRC
There's a thread going on over on incubator-general about the use of IRC: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=11511128601r=1w=2 Are people happy with having our current weekly hour long IRC chat? I find the chat a useful way to find whats going on and gauge peoples opinions. A 1 hour chat isn't so long that its hard to read the chat log, we could probably do better at providing a summary of what was said, and maybe post the log and summary on the wiki so its easier to find. So I think the current chat is useful and works ok but we can change this if others don't like it. Currently the chat focus has been primarily Java SCA, should we try and include C++ or SDO or DAS more? Or have separate extra chats for those? Often the chat is one long rambling conversation, should we try to be more structured and have a set 10 minutes for this, 10 minutes for that type of thing to just get a regular status and have any followup discussion on the mailing list? Is the 15:30GMT on Monday time slot ok? What do you think? ...ant
Re: Email versus IRC
I think IRC is goodness as long as 1. the log gets posted 2. formal votes are done on email Communities that meet regularly on IRC might have an issue if they dont post logs, but if the discussion is posted on email then its a very productive. Paul On 7/5/06, ant elder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There's a thread going on over on incubator-general about the use of IRC: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=11511128601r=1w=2 Are people happy with having our current weekly hour long IRC chat? I find the chat a useful way to find whats going on and gauge peoples opinions. A 1 hour chat isn't so long that its hard to read the chat log, we could probably do better at providing a summary of what was said, and maybe post the log and summary on the wiki so its easier to find. So I think the current chat is useful and works ok but we can change this if others don't like it. Currently the chat focus has been primarily Java SCA, should we try and include C++ or SDO or DAS more? Or have separate extra chats for those? Often the chat is one long rambling conversation, should we try to be more structured and have a set 10 minutes for this, 10 minutes for that type of thing to just get a regular status and have any followup discussion on the mailing list? Is the 15:30GMT on Monday time slot ok? What do you think? ...ant -- Paul Fremantle VP/Technology, WSO2 and OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair http://bloglines.com/blog/paulfremantle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Oxygenating the Web Service Platform, www.wso2.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email versus IRC
Hi I have found the chat logs useful to catch up with the discussions. But then we must be more choosy about the sort of topics we discuss. In my opinion the chat must be reserved for subjects that simply cannot be allowed to drag over for days, over the mailing lists. It would be good if we can decide ahead of the chat, on the subjects that should be taken for discussion i.e. fix the agenda ahead of the chat. That will help partcipants come prepared as well. As for who will decide the sort of subjects to be discussed, we could either propose and vote over the mailing lists or maybe just propose and trust the chat moderator to take a call on that. - Venkat On 7/5/06, Paul Fremantle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think IRC is goodness as long as 1. the log gets posted 2. formal votes are done on email Communities that meet regularly on IRC might have an issue if they dont post logs, but if the discussion is posted on email then its a very productive. Paul On 7/5/06, ant elder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There's a thread going on over on incubator-general about the use of IRC: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=11511128601r=1w=2 Are people happy with having our current weekly hour long IRC chat? I find the chat a useful way to find whats going on and gauge peoples opinions. A 1 hour chat isn't so long that its hard to read the chat log, we could probably do better at providing a summary of what was said, and maybe post the log and summary on the wiki so its easier to find. So I think the current chat is useful and works ok but we can change this if others don't like it. Currently the chat focus has been primarily Java SCA, should we try and include C++ or SDO or DAS more? Or have separate extra chats for those? Often the chat is one long rambling conversation, should we try to be more structured and have a set 10 minutes for this, 10 minutes for that type of thing to just get a regular status and have any followup discussion on the mailing list? Is the 15:30GMT on Monday time slot ok? What do you think? ...ant -- Paul Fremantle VP/Technology, WSO2 and OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair http://bloglines.com/blog/paulfremantle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Oxygenating the Web Service Platform, www.wso2.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email versus IRC
On Jul 5, 2006, at 3:04 AM, ant elder wrote: There's a thread going on over on incubator-general about the use of IRC: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=11511128601r=1w=2 Are people happy with having our current weekly hour long IRC chat? I find the chat a useful way to find whats going on and gauge peoples opinions. A 1 hour chat isn't so long that its hard to read the chat log, we could probably do better at providing a summary of what was said, and maybe post the log and summary on the wiki so its easier to find. So I think the current chat is useful and works ok but we can change this if others don't like it. I like it even though my travel schedule causes me to miss it at times. I find reading the logs easy enough and when I am able to attend, it's very useful. Currently the chat focus has been primarily Java SCA, should we try and include C++ or SDO or DAS more? Or have separate extra chats for those? Often the chat is one long rambling conversation, should we try to be more structured and have a set 10 minutes for this, 10 minutes for that type of thing to just get a regular status and have any followup discussion on the mailing list? Having the other subprojects would be a good way to have knowledge sharing. From my SCA perspective, it would be interesting for me to compare notes with the C++ people. Also, I'm interested in hearing about how DAS and SDO are going. Is the 15:30GMT on Monday time slot ok? Works for me when I can make it but I'm also happy to change it if others have difficulty with that time. What do you think? ...ant - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email versus IRC
I can see merit in an SDO chat and I like the idea publishing the chat topics and summarising the chat log. For me that would enable me to work smarter, since I could decide ahead of time whether to attend the wider meeting or catch up later by reading the log summary. Hopefully the net time spent for me would be less, and the relevance to my core interst would be greater. What do the rest of the SDO community think? I'd be happy to summarize and post the log. If there's interest perhaps we should try 1/2 an hour a week as a starter? Cheers, Kelvin. On 7/5/06, Venkata Krishnan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi I have found the chat logs useful to catch up with the discussions. But then we must be more choosy about the sort of topics we discuss. In my opinion the chat must be reserved for subjects that simply cannot be allowed to drag over for days, over the mailing lists. It would be good if we can decide ahead of the chat, on the subjects that should be taken for discussion i.e. fix the agenda ahead of the chat. That will help partcipants come prepared as well. As for who will decide the sort of subjects to be discussed, we could either propose and vote over the mailing lists or maybe just propose and trust the chat moderator to take a call on that. - Venkat On 7/5/06, Paul Fremantle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think IRC is goodness as long as 1. the log gets posted 2. formal votes are done on email Communities that meet regularly on IRC might have an issue if they dont post logs, but if the discussion is posted on email then its a very productive. Paul On 7/5/06, ant elder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There's a thread going on over on incubator-general about the use of IRC: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=11511128601r=1w=2 Are people happy with having our current weekly hour long IRC chat? I find the chat a useful way to find whats going on and gauge peoples opinions. A 1 hour chat isn't so long that its hard to read the chat log, we could probably do better at providing a summary of what was said, and maybe post the log and summary on the wiki so its easier to find. So I think the current chat is useful and works ok but we can change this if others don't like it. Currently the chat focus has been primarily Java SCA, should we try and include C++ or SDO or DAS more? Or have separate extra chats for those? Often the chat is one long rambling conversation, should we try to be more structured and have a set 10 minutes for this, 10 minutes for that type of thing to just get a regular status and have any followup discussion on the mailing list? Is the 15:30GMT on Monday time slot ok? What do you think? ...ant -- Paul Fremantle VP/Technology, WSO2 and OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair http://bloglines.com/blog/paulfremantle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Oxygenating the Web Service Platform, www.wso2.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Best Regards Kelvin Goodson
Re: Email versus IRC
Are you saying you'd prefer not to participate, or do you want us all to stop having the weekly chat? ...ant On 7/5/06, Jeremy Boynes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/5/06, ant elder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There's a thread going on over on incubator-general about the use of IRC: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=11511128601r=1w=2 Are people happy with having our current weekly hour long IRC chat? I find the chat a useful way to find whats going on and gauge peoples opinions. A 1 hour chat isn't so long that its hard to read the chat log, we could probably do better at providing a summary of what was said, and maybe post the log and summary on the wiki so its easier to find. So I think the current chat is useful and works ok but we can change this if others don't like it. Currently the chat focus has been primarily Java SCA, should we try and include C++ or SDO or DAS more? Or have separate extra chats for those? Often the chat is one long rambling conversation, should we try to be more structured and have a set 10 minutes for this, 10 minutes for that type of thing to just get a regular status and have any followup discussion on the mailing list? Is the 15:30GMT on Monday time slot ok? What do you think? I'm not very comfortable with using IRC for these kind of weekly meetings - it seems too much like a status meeting to me. IMO if someone needs to be on IRC to see what is going on or what people's opinions are then we are not doing a good enough job of communicating on the mailing list. To me the main benefit from IRC is its immediacy. It provides a faster form of communication than email and that can be used to bring closure to issues that are dragging along on the list. In that mode, IRC discussions tend to more impromptu, more focused, and simpler to summarize as the subject is already well known. -- Jeremy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email versus IRC
Ant was just trying to be helpful by gauging what people would like to use IRC for, although I also have to say I didn't interpret Jeremy's previous mail to be advocating a ban on IRC. I think there has been a lot of heated discussion on the list lately, and it would probably be good for us all to chill out a bit and not take things to extremes... That said, I find IRC chats useful as long as substantive discussions and all decisions of import take place on the list. I like how the chats provide an unstructured forum to ask quick questions and communicate. I don't think we need the overhead of having an agenda,deciding what gets discussed, or time boxing topics (as long as people have an equal opportunity to talk). I also don't see a problem if someone wants to send a note to the list saying they would like to discuss a particular topic so people can prepare ahead of time. Jim On Jul 5, 2006, at 8:29 AM, Jeremy Boynes wrote: On 7/5/06, ant elder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you saying you'd prefer not to participate, or do you want us all to stop having the weekly chat? Ant, please, that's not what I said at all. I said that, IMO (for what that's worth), I see the main benefit of IRC is its use as tool to help reach consensus when discussions on the mailing list bog down. Using IRC in that manner does not require a scheduled meeting. As pointed out on the incubator thread, having a scheduled meeting can act as a deterrant to participation. For example, one reason that I am reluctant to join in some other IRC meetings is that they occur at 5:30AM my time and my desire to participate does not exceed my desire for sleep. As Jim pointed out here, people often have other commitments that may impact their ability to participate - IIRC he cited travel issues. Being async, email does not have those problems which is why it is the preferred form of communication at the ASF. -- Jeremy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email versus IRC
On Jul 5, 2006, at 8:57 AM, Jim Marino wrote: Ant was just trying to be helpful by gauging what people would like to use IRC for, although I also have to say I didn't interpret Jeremy's previous mail to be advocating a ban on IRC. I did not mean to advocate that. Ironically, Ant and I were just chatting on IRC about this (which fits the impromptu, reach consensus model quite nicely :-) Summarizing my position, I'm kind of -0 on the chats in their current form, leaning to -1 if we start to add more structure and more reliance on them to the detriment of email. I'm in favour of ad-hoc decisions (appropriately summarized) and not necessarily opposed to regular meetings in some other form. -- Jeremy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email versus IRC
I think a weekly one-hour scheduled IRC chat is a good idea, even though my personal record of attendance isn't too good :-( I have scheduled these into my calendar now, whoch should help. The few chats I have been on have been useful, though perhaps closer to decision-making affairs than would ideally follow the Apache model. (Sample: what are we going to do about these JIRAs?) However, it was useful to reach quick decisions on these and the chat seemed to be a reasonable way to do this. The current time is OK for me. Simon ant elder wrote: AFAICT no one has suggested a ban on IRC, what I'm trying to find out is if we should be continuing with the regularly scheduled weekly chat. If enough people don't think we should be having it then we should stop. Thats a perfectly fine thing to happen if thats what the community want, but its not going to get stopped unless those who don't think we should be having it speak up clearly. That's what this thread is about - Are people happy with having our current weekly hour long IRC chat? ...ant -- Simon C Nash IBM Distinguished Engineer Hursley Park, Winchester, UK [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel. +44-1962-815156 Fax +44-1962-818999 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email versus IRC
IRC has been a useful tool for timely community brainstorming to handle issues that need quick attention. We have started to summarize the chat content on the mailing list in messages that include the IRC chat. That is very useful. It would be good to decide on chat subject before the chat session starts and publish it on mailing list. This gives a chance to people in different time zones to decide on whether they need to attend the chat or not. On 7/5/06, Simon Nash [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think a weekly one-hour scheduled IRC chat is a good idea, even though my personal record of attendance isn't too good :-( I have scheduled these into my calendar now, whoch should help. The few chats I have been on have been useful, though perhaps closer to decision-making affairs than would ideally follow the Apache model. (Sample: what are we going to do about these JIRAs?) However, it was useful to reach quick decisions on these and the chat seemed to be a reasonable way to do this. The current time is OK for me. Simon ant elder wrote: AFAICT no one has suggested a ban on IRC, what I'm trying to find out is if we should be continuing with the regularly scheduled weekly chat. If enough people don't think we should be having it then we should stop. Thats a perfectly fine thing to happen if thats what the community want, but its not going to get stopped unless those who don't think we should be having it speak up clearly. That's what this thread is about - Are people happy with having our current weekly hour long IRC chat? ...ant -- Simon C Nash IBM Distinguished Engineer Hursley Park, Winchester, UK [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel. +44-1962-815156 Fax +44-1962-818999 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email versus IRC
On Jul 5, 2006, at 11:10 AM, haleh mahbod wrote: IRC has been a useful tool for timely community brainstorming to handle issues that need quick attention. Right. That was the basis for saying IRC should be an impromptu, consensus building mechanism - there's no need to wait for a scheduled time to have these types of discussions. However, if we're using IRC that way, what do we get from a scheduled weekly session? -- Jeremy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email versus IRC
On Jul 5, 2006, at 11:37 AM, Jeremy Boynes wrote: On Jul 5, 2006, at 11:10 AM, haleh mahbod wrote: IRC has been a useful tool for timely community brainstorming to handle issues that need quick attention. Right. That was the basis for saying IRC should be an impromptu, consensus building mechanism - there's no need to wait for a scheduled time to have these types of discussions. Of course, this kind of approach only works if people can be contacted on IRC - very few people were on the channel today and I have the impression that is fairly typical. Where do Tuscany folk hang out? -- Jeremy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Email versus IRC
+1 for including DAS related topics on the IRC Chats. - Luciano ant elder [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/05/2006 06:47 AM Please respond to tuscany-dev@ws.apache.org To tuscany-dev@ws.apache.org cc Subject Email versus IRC There's a thread going on over on incubator-general about the use of IRC: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=11511128601r=1w=2 Are people happy with having our current weekly hour long IRC chat? I find the chat a useful way to find whats going on and gauge peoples opinions. A 1 hour chat isn't so long that its hard to read the chat log, we could probably do better at providing a summary of what was said, and maybe post the log and summary on the wiki so its easier to find. So I think the current chat is useful and works ok but we can change this if others don't like it. Currently the chat focus has been primarily Java SCA, should we try and include C++ or SDO or DAS more? Or have separate extra chats for those? Often the chat is one long rambling conversation, should we try to be more structured and have a set 10 minutes for this, 10 minutes for that type of thing to just get a regular status and have any followup discussion on the mailing list? Is the 15:30GMT on Monday time slot ok? What do you think? ...ant - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
