Re: [Tutor] Best Python Editor
On 6/15/2009 12:14 PM Michael Powe said... On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 06:34:04AM -0700, Emile van Sebille wrote: I'm wondering if there might be documented benefits to migrating from my horse and buggy. :) Are you in a hurry to get somewhere? ;-) If 20 LOC/day is average nowadays, how fast do you need to be going? I recently worked on a module for a large existing Java application. The module I wrote had to be plugged in to the existing code base. So of course, I had to have all kinds of tie-ins to existing libraries and classes. First, I couldn't run the full application, so I had to rely on unit testing to verify my functionality. Second, I had to connect to hundreds of classes inside the application. I'm not that smart -- I could not have done it without NetBeans, which has fantastic introspection and can tell me most of the ways I'm violating protocol while I'm working. This is a good use case. Unfortunately, I'm still supporting several 30-35 year old 250k line basic applications and associated glue apps that don't play nice with modern tools.And each time I've considered switching (for the glue bits), the time to become productive with a new tool was taking as long as the project estimated time to implement and so it just hasn't happened. I stubbed out a lot of stuff and prototyped in jEdit. But when it was game on, I had to go to NB. It probably comes down to, How much stuff can you carry in your head? several 35 year old 250k line basic applications and associated glue apps :) Also the names of my kids, but not always in the proper one-to-one association. :)) Emile ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Best Python Editor
Eddie wrote: > I downloaded the previous version of PyScripter although couldn't get > it to work and after googling it, I downloaded Python Portable 1.1 > (Python 2.6.1 as most sites/books recommend this and not 3) which has > PySCripter included and this then works fine.Ii also downloaded Komod0 > 5.1 and after messing around with these, I think I prefer PyScripter > and will use that for the mean time. > > I'll also take a look at VIM as being able to use the same program for > PHP/CSS/HTML (and Basic if it supports it) as well as hopefully Python > (I've only just started learning it) would be an advantage. > > Thanks guys > Eddie > You might also check SPE (Stani's Python Editor), it's good. ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Best Python Editor
On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 1:50 PM, Michael Powe wrote: > I don't like GUI-based stuff, > though, so right off, any editor built on the assumption that I'm a > mouse-oriented user is right out. That's why I'm a solid vim user. I can't stand touching the mouse when I'm coding. It just breaks up the flow of typing. I heard it mentioned before and I feel the same way - I have to switch to a different mindset to move around instead of push buttons. Of course, now that I have one of those eraser mouses in the middle of my laptop it's really hard to use a real mouse for anything except graphics editing. The mouse wins there, and gaming, and that's really it for me. -Wayne -- To be considered stupid and to be told so is more painful than being called gluttonous, mendacious, violent, lascivious, lazy, cowardly: every weakness, every vice, has found its defenders, its rhetoric, its ennoblement and exaltation, but stupidity hasn’t. - Primo Levi ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Best Python Editor
On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 06:34:04AM -0700, Emile van Sebille wrote: > On 6/15/2009 2:49 AM Tom Green said... > >Yes, vim or any text editor is suitable for Python, but I > >prefer having a nice GUI interface while coding. I mean the automobile > >replaced the horse and buggy, while they both get you to your > >destination I would still rather travel in a car. > Anyone know of any studies comparing text based vs GUI IDE based code > development? As I recall, programming productivity is measured in > LOC/day and last time I noticed it seemed to be a very small number. > I'm wondering if there might be documented benefits to migrating from my > horse and buggy. :) Are you in a hurry to get somewhere? ;-) I recently worked on a module for a large existing Java application. The module I wrote had to be plugged in to the existing code base. So of course, I had to have all kinds of tie-ins to existing libraries and classes. First, I couldn't run the full application, so I had to rely on unit testing to verify my functionality. Second, I had to connect to hundreds of classes inside the application. I'm not that smart -- I could not have done it without NetBeans, which has fantastic introspection and can tell me most of the ways I'm violating protocol while I'm working. I stubbed out a lot of stuff and prototyped in jEdit. But when it was game on, I had to go to NB. It probably comes down to, How much stuff can you carry in your head? Thanks. mp ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Best Python Editor
On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 06:30:50AM -0700, johnf wrote: > On Sunday 14 June 2009 07:31:53 pm Michael Powe wrote: > > However, I will say that while following this thread, it occurred to > > me that the one feature that VS and even the VBA editor in MS Office > > has, is the ability to pop you into the debugger on error. This > > feature is so useful that it surprises me nobody else seems to do it. > > Most often, simply the ability to jump to the error line is provided > > and I suppose that must be generally acceptable. > Wing does. When error occurs it stops on the line and the programmer is > working in the debugger. Hello, I'll have to look at that. I have a kind of collection of editors -- the way I collect books, I guess. TextPad, vbsEdit, UltraEdit, SciTE, XmlCopyEditor, EditPlus, emacs. I never do anything with vi except munge conf files. For actual "projects" I use VS and NetBeans. When I get on a "back to basics" kick, I re-enter emacs. It used to be a joke about emacs not being an editor but an operating system. There is nothing on the linux side that even comes close, IMO. I don't like GUI-based stuff, though, so right off, any editor built on the assumption that I'm a mouse-oriented user is right out. Thanks. mp ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Best Python Editor
"Emile van Sebille" wrote Anyone know of any studies comparing text based vs GUI IDE based code development? As I recall, programming productivity is measured in LOC/day and last time I noticed it seemed to be a very small number. When I started in "software engineering" (c1985) the typical value was between 8-10 lines of working code per person per day. After PCs (and Unix workstations) became the norm the figure slowly rose to around 12-15. With the latest tools I suspect it might be getting close to breaking 20. (On small projects it will be much higher, this is an industry average remember) But i haven't seen a published figure for at least 5 years, if not more! I'm wondering if there might be documented benefits to migrating from my horse and buggy. :) Most improvements in productivity were down to things like seeing more than 24 lines of code at a time and faster navigation, as well as much faster compilatrion speeds (who remembers the days of limits on the number of compiles you could do per day - usually 3 or 4 - or the days when a full build was measured in hours, sometimes days (I worked on one project where we could only do a full build on a Friday night because it didn't finish until late Sunday afternoon...). The IDE doesn't add a huge amount of improvement, and the real issues holding down the figures are those that Fred Brooks called the "essential problems" - like understanding the requirements, defining an architecture etc - as well as regression testing etc. Even with test automation it still takes us 6 weeks to run a full regression test of some of our bigger projects. (Down from 16 though! :-) As for tests comparing text based editing v mouse driven those are very inconclusive and, I suspect, reflect the bias of the tester. Back when the Mac first came out(1984?) Apple showed that WYSIWYG word processors were much faster than older text styles(Wordstar etc) but then Wordstar showed that text based documents had fewer errors and gained students higher marks... I've certainly seen comparisons going both ways for programmer's editors. The one constant is that for pure text editing vi is usually fastest in the hands of an expert(*) even compared to emacs. But programmers do so much more than simply editing text! (*)The old DOS editor Brief ran it a very close second. Brief morphed into an Opensource GUI editor after Windows 3 came out (and Borland bought Brief) but I've forgotten the name and haven't heard of it for years. Wikipedia to the rescue - CrisP was the name and it was Unix only apparently. Then did the very unusual thing of going from Opensource to commercial! Its still going with a release in 2008. Ahh, nostalgia :-) Alan G. ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Best Python Editor
for note; full tag completion and tag support can be used in vim via omnicompletion and taglists. Full class support/heiarchy + printing of the docscrint as you ctrl-n through each completion in the preview window. Extremly useful when using someone else's library or for remembering what to pass in; and mostly native to vim. I have never used a debugger (i usually use break points and prints, with a quick e to run and examine output); but I would assume it's there if you want it as I have seen GDB integration (as well as any VCS you would want, which suprises me that has not come up yet.) It just comes down to whether you want ot make the learning investment or not. After using it for awhile; your workflow just; well; flows. This to me is the biggest complement to an editor. Thanks, Chris On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 10:16 AM, Wayne wrote: > On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 5:55 AM, Tom Green wrote: > >> Since VIM seems to be the editor of choice and I have been programming in >> Python for many years using Pyscripter and Eclipse I was wondering how I >> could transition away from the IDE world to VIM. My main issue is how do I >> go about using VIM to debug my code? > > > I usually use print statements and/or raw_input's if you want break points. > > >> With Pyscripter and other IDES its as simple as placing a breakpoint and >> pressing F7 to step thru the code and you have the ability to see the >> variable values etc. > > > I know you can do some similar things with the python debugger but I've > honestly never used it that much (or worked on a project large enough I > needed to!) > > >> Also, with an IDE such as Pyscripter when calling a function a nice >> balloon hint appears showing you the number of parameters and their types. > > > It's not precisely the same thing, but you can fold multiple lines, which > allows you to have only the top line of a function showing. I find that > rather helpful, and ctrl-n autocompletes the function name. Then you can > mark the location with m then a-to-z (I use c as a mnemonic for 'current') > then move on top of the name and push * - that will find the next occurence > of the word, which is often the function declaration. I just hit "n" (next) > until I find it, if that's not the case. Then I type ` (the one over the > tilde) then c which takes me back to my 'current' location. If you really > wanted, though, you could also have horizontal split of the same file, and > you could probably write a macro that would move to that window/buffer and > find the function declaraition (so it would search for def under cursor>). I don't know precisely how the dropdown autocomplete menu > works but you could also probably edit your script to add parameters for the > function call just like an IDE. > > >> Coming from a Visual Studio background this is great, as I might be >> calling a function or method and I don't know off hand the values. Maybe >> someone could share how they go about programming a good size program with >> VIM as I would like to use it. Don't get me wrong for quick programs I will >> use VIM or notepad, but when it comes to building a OOP program I find >> Eclipse or Pyscripter much easier to use. > > > I suppose that's probably the case for a few people - and certainly the > reason those tools exist in the first place. If I were working on a quite > large program I might consider using an IDE, but in reality I'm probably > just as comfortable jumping around code to look for the information I need > as I would be using an IDE. > > HTH, > Wayne > > >> On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 12:54 AM, Eddie wrote: >> >>> I downloaded the previous version of PyScripter although couldn't get >>> it to work and after googling it, I downloaded Python Portable 1.1 >>> (Python 2.6.1 as most sites/books recommend this and not 3) which has >>> PySCripter included and this then works fine.Ii also downloaded Komod0 >>> 5.1 and after messing around with these, I think I prefer PyScripter >>> and will use that for the mean time. >>> >>> I'll also take a look at VIM as being able to use the same program for >>> PHP/CSS/HTML (and Basic if it supports it) as well as hopefully Python >>> (I've only just started learning it) would be an advantage. >>> >>> Thanks guys >>> Eddie >>> >>> 2009/6/14 Mike Hoy : >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> I really like using F5 to run my code, so you can put in your .vimrc >>> so >>> >> you don't have to type it, or just type it every time: >>> >> >>> >> map :!python % >>> >> >>> >> and every time you hit it will run your current script. >>> >> >>> > Thanks for that. It's even better than typing :!python % because it >>> doesn't >>> > spawn a shell separate from the Vim window. >>> > >>> > ___ >>> > Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org >>> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor >>> > >>> > >>> ___ >>> Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org >>> http://mail.python.org/mail
Re: [Tutor] Best Python Editor
On 6/15/2009 2:49 AM Tom Green said... Yes, vim or any text editor is suitable for Python, but I prefer having a nice GUI interface while coding. I mean the automobile replaced the horse and buggy, while they both get you to your destination I would still rather travel in a car. Anyone know of any studies comparing text based vs GUI IDE based code development? As I recall, programming productivity is measured in LOC/day and last time I noticed it seemed to be a very small number. I'm wondering if there might be documented benefits to migrating from my horse and buggy. :) Emile ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Best Python Editor
On Sunday 14 June 2009 07:31:53 pm Michael Powe wrote: > > However, I will say that while following this thread, it occurred to > me that the one feature that VS and even the VBA editor in MS Office > has, is the ability to pop you into the debugger on error. This > feature is so useful that it surprises me nobody else seems to do it. > Most often, simply the ability to jump to the error line is provided > and I suppose that must be generally acceptable. > > Thanks. Wing does. When error occurs it stops on the line and the programmer is working in the debugger. -- John Fabiani ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Best Python Editor
Back when I used Windows I used this: http://www.crimsoneditor.com/ I think its not being developed anymore, but it is a great editor/IDE that supports many languages. -- Michael Connors ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Best Python Editor
I second Tom Green, when i started off with Python i mainly used Pyscripter on Windows and its excellent. On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 1:48 PM, Tom Green wrote: > For Windows check out PyScripter. Its IDE is similar to Borland Delphi and > I find it very easy to use. Whatever works for you would be "best" for > you. PyScripter is FREE and I would highly recommend it for people who are > new to Python or people with programming experience that are used to > programming in a IDE. > > Regards, > T. Green > > > > On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 6:52 AM, Dave Angel wrote: > >> Eddie wrote: >> >> Hi guys, >>> >>> What would you regard as the best free Python editor to use on Windows >>> for a new guy? Searching Google i see that there is quite a few out >>> there and is "VIM" the best one to go with? >>> >>> Regards >>> Eddie >>> >>> >>> >> This is such a common question on the python forums it ought to be in a >> FAQ, and maybe it is. >> >> VI and EMACS are the two "standard" Unix editors, going back decades. >> Somebody used to the flexibility of either of those two, who is now stuck >> on Windows, would naturally not want to give up any of the "customizability" >> of these. And people have posted macros for each to automate some of the >> things you'd like for Python, such as auto-indent. VIM is an editor in that >> heritage. >> >> Somebody who's used Windows for 20 years, however, might expect that >> Ctrl-S, Ctrl-F4, Alt-F4, etc. have standard meanings. So they might be more >> comfortable in an editor that starts with the Windows interface, and builds >> on it. I use metapad for many things, though not for Python. Others use >> Notepad++. >> >> Next question is whether you want an IDE. The ability to single-step in >> the debugger, locate and fix a problem in source, and start again, in a >> single environment is appealing. When I have a stack trace showing in the >> debugger, I can use the debugger to locate the source at any level of that >> stack without having to explicitly load the file and jump to the specified >> line number. And no risk that the same file is already loaded into some >> other editor and I'm going to lose changes if some are made one place and >> some another. And of course, it's nice to have a locals window, a globals >> window, a watch window, ... >> >> People that do not like an IDE cite the advantage of using a single editor >> for several programming languages, for word processing, and for web design. >> If such an editor is highly programmable, that would seem very good as >> well. >> >> So then it comes down to opinion. I use the (not-free) Komodo IDE. There >> is a free Komodo-Edit with most of the same features, but I really don't >> know what subset it includes. It is programmable with many canned add-ins, >> or you can customize it yourself with recorded macros and with scripts in >> Python or (I think) Javascript. Its addin technology is related somehow to >> Firefox, and I think it used a lot of the Mozilla code in its engine. The >> default UI is very familiar to people with Windows experience, though I >> don't know how it works on Mac and Linux >> >> http://www.activestate.com/komodo/Komodo IDE >> http://www.activestate.com/komodo_edit/ opensource Komodo Edit >> http://www.activestate.com/komodo_edit/comparison/comparison between >> the two >> >> >> >> >> ___ >> Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor >> > > > ___ > Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor > > -- Lloyd Dube ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Best Python Editor
This has been a great discussion and when I first entered college I was required to take Pascal. At that time we used Turbo Pascal IDE--if you want to call it an IDE. As with anything technology advances and we have new tools for the job and I became spoiled once Visual Studio hit the market. I really can't see doing any large project without a full blown IDE. Yes, vim or any text editor is suitable for Python, but I prefer having a nice GUI interface while coding. I mean the automobile replaced the horse and buggy, while they both get you to your destination I would still rather travel in a car. Regards, T.Green On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 2:00 AM, Lie Ryan wrote: > Michael Powe wrote: > > > It's good to see so much common sense prevailing on this topic. > > It's good that this newsgroup is not as prevalent to being flamed. In > certain other newsgroup, even (an honest and naive) mentioning of > preferred editor would turn the thread into World War E. > > > An > > IDE such as eclipse or VS really only becomes a necessity for > > productivity when (a) you are dealing with multiple code files and > > proper compilation and linking and so forth becomes complicated; or > > People that write in text editors often uses makefiles to handle that. > However, in python, there is nothing much to be done with multiple file > handling. Python's import mechanism just works like magic... > > > Most often, simply the ability to jump to the error line is provided > > and I suppose that must be generally acceptable. > > vim does. > > ___ > Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor > ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Best Python Editor
Michael Powe wrote: > It's good to see so much common sense prevailing on this topic. It's good that this newsgroup is not as prevalent to being flamed. In certain other newsgroup, even (an honest and naive) mentioning of preferred editor would turn the thread into World War E. > An > IDE such as eclipse or VS really only becomes a necessity for > productivity when (a) you are dealing with multiple code files and > proper compilation and linking and so forth becomes complicated; or People that write in text editors often uses makefiles to handle that. However, in python, there is nothing much to be done with multiple file handling. Python's import mechanism just works like magic... > Most often, simply the ability to jump to the error line is provided > and I suppose that must be generally acceptable. vim does. ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Best Python Editor
On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 12:53:19PM -0700, Emile van Sebille wrote: > On 6/14/2009 8:04 AM Alan Gauld said... > >"Tom Green" wrote > >>Since VIM seems to be the editor of choice and I have been programming in > >>Python for many years using Pyscripter and Eclipse I was wondering how I > >>could transition away from the IDE world to VIM. > >With great difficulty and to be honest I wouyldn't bother. > >If you are used to eclipse then there is little to be gained from moving > >to vim. > Seconded. Editors are a personal choice and often the loss of > productivity while learning a new environment isn't worth it. My > introduction to coding Turbo Pascal was eased owing to the WordStar > compatible/modeled editor it used. Nowadays, any editor with > configurable syntax capability is sufficient. It's all personal > preference after that. It's good to see so much common sense prevailing on this topic. An IDE such as eclipse or VS really only becomes a necessity for productivity when (a) you are dealing with multiple code files and proper compilation and linking and so forth becomes complicated; or (b) you are working in a language with which you are not as familiar as you should like to be, and autocompletion because a real asset. However, I will say that while following this thread, it occurred to me that the one feature that VS and even the VBA editor in MS Office has, is the ability to pop you into the debugger on error. This feature is so useful that it surprises me nobody else seems to do it. Most often, simply the ability to jump to the error line is provided and I suppose that must be generally acceptable. Thanks. mp ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Best Python Editor
On 6/14/2009 8:04 AM Alan Gauld said... "Tom Green" wrote Since VIM seems to be the editor of choice and I have been programming in Python for many years using Pyscripter and Eclipse I was wondering how I could transition away from the IDE world to VIM. With great difficulty and to be honest I wouyldn't bother. If you are used to eclipse then there is little to be gained from moving to vim. Seconded. Editors are a personal choice and often the loss of productivity while learning a new environment isn't worth it. My introduction to coding Turbo Pascal was eased owing to the WordStar compatible/modeled editor it used. Nowadays, any editor with configurable syntax capability is sufficient. It's all personal preference after that. Some of this might just be what we are used to too. Remember that IDEs as such didn't really come into existence till about 12-15 years ago. Those of us who have notched up more than 2 or 3 decades of coding have probably just not got used to the new concepts yet! Full screen editing with WordStar spoiled me after having only the primitive form of edlin I'd been working with. vi on the *nix boxen was (and still is) a necessary tool because it was/is available everywhere, but I never quite got it and only cautiously use it when I do. Somewhere along the line I heard that "vi has two modes -- one that beeps at you; and another that destroys your file." Since then I've had fewer problems with it. :) My editor for the past ten years or so has been TextPad on windows with a variety of syntax plugins. (php,perl,python,pro5,postscript) Emile ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Best Python Editor
I've been pretty happy with WingIDE from wingware and have been impressed with the give-away version of Komodo from ActiveState. My fall back editor when I'm in a hurry on mac is still TextMate. Knowing my way around vim is essential, but I just can't commit to it as my primary editor. (I guess I'm just not hard core enough.) I like Kate on Ubuntu as well. Kurt -- http://tool.net On Jun 14, 2009, at 12:26 PM, Carlos Zuniga wrote: On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 7:57 PM, Wayne wrote: On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 7:40 PM, Mike Hoy wrote: Try out Vim. It may take you a week to get used to it. Best thing I ever did was finally get started on Vim. Once I got used to it I was very happy. Google around for Vim tutorials. There is a #VIM channel on freenode I believe. There is also a VIM mailing list that is very helpful. You won't need these for long. Once you get used to it and think you've learned all you can you find out there's even more stuff you can do with it. So it's something that you use for life once you get that feeling of enlightenment that comes from never having to remove your hands from the keyboard. I'm another viim fanatic; I use two terminals - one with vim and one with ipython (I write most of my code on linux). When I'm on windows I have a cmd window open with Ipython and I have a gVim window open. I'm sure I barely scratch the surface of things I can do and I know I've stopped using some things that I'm sure I'll start using the more I code. I really like using F5 to run my code, so you can put in your .vimrc so you don't have to type it, or just type it every time: map :!python % and every time you hit it will run your current script. Of course I also write code in c++ for school, so I have a few different keys that will change the F5 bindings. You can map it directly to the filename extension so it uses the correct bindings automatically au BufNewFile,BufRead *.py map :!python % Cheers -- Linux Registered User # 386081 A menudo unas pocas horas de "Prueba y error" podrán ahorrarte minut os de leer manuales. ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Best Python Editor
"Alan Gauld" wrote [ And of course Smalltalk80 had a very complete IDE in 1980, (See Squeek screenshots for some idea of how it differs from modern GUIs!) but Smalltalk has always been an exception to the rules! ] I'm not doing well today. Since I last looked Squeak has obviously changed course big style! It was originally trying to recreate the original parcPlace Smalltalk80 environment but the latest screenshots are something altogether more modern looking. Once more I apologise. Alan G. ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Best Python Editor
On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 7:57 PM, Wayne wrote: > On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 7:40 PM, Mike Hoy wrote: >> >> Try out Vim. It may take you a week to get used to it. Best thing I ever >> did was finally get started on Vim. Once I got used to it I was very happy. >> Google around for Vim tutorials. There is a #VIM channel on freenode I >> believe. There is also a VIM mailing list that is very helpful. You won't >> need these for long. Once you get used to it and think you've learned all >> you can you find out there's even more stuff you can do with it. >> >> >> So it's something that you use for life once you get that feeling of >> enlightenment that comes from never having to remove your hands from the >> keyboard. > > I'm another viim fanatic; > > I use two terminals - one with vim and one with ipython (I write most of my > code on linux). When I'm on windows I have a cmd window open with Ipython > and I have a gVim window open. I'm sure I barely scratch the surface of > things I can do and I know I've stopped using some things that I'm sure I'll > start using the more I code. > > I really like using F5 to run my code, so you can put in your .vimrc so you > don't have to type it, or just type it every time: > > map :!python % > > and every time you hit it will run your current script. > > Of course I also write code in c++ for school, so I have a few different > keys that will change the F5 bindings. You can map it directly to the filename extension so it uses the correct bindings automatically au BufNewFile,BufRead *.py map :!python % Cheers -- Linux Registered User # 386081 A menudo unas pocas horas de "Prueba y error" podrán ahorrarte minutos de leer manuales. ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Best Python Editor
"Alan Gauld" wrote Some of this might just be what we are used to too. Remember that IDEs as such didn't really come into existence till about 12-15 years Sigh! I'm getting old In fact the first thing I would call an IDE in the modern sense was probably Turbo Pascal v4 (previous versions didn't include a debugger) which came out in 1987 according to Wikipedia. So in fact IDEs have been around on PCs for about 22 years! But they certainly weren't common on *nix until about the mid 90's (Galaxy, Object/CodeCenter and HP Softbench being very expensive exceptions!) [ And of course Smalltalk80 had a very complete IDE in 1980, (See Squeek screenshots for some idea of how it differs from modern GUIs!) but Smalltalk has always been an exception to the rules! ] Apologies for the misinformation. Alan G ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Best Python Editor
"Tom Green" wrote Since VIM seems to be the editor of choice and I have been programming in Python for many years using Pyscripter and Eclipse I was wondering how I could transition away from the IDE world to VIM. With great difficulty and to be honest I wouyldn't bother. If you are used to eclipse then there is little to be gained from moving to vim. vim is a more powerful and faster editor once you know it, but learning it takes a while. But the "Microsoft IDE" v the "Unix style" of programming are fundamentally different paradigms and if you are already comfortable with an IDE I'd stick with that style. Particul;arly with Eclipse which is cross platform and therefore available on most OS. My main issue is how do I go about using VIM to debug my code? You set up a key mapping to either start the Python debugger or one of the GUI variants such as winpdb. To be honest the great thing about Python is you hardly ever need a debugger, especially if you are programming interactively using the >>> prompt (or IPython etc) have the ability to see the variable values etc. Get to know the introspection capabilities of Python, dir() help() etc Pyscripter when calling a function a nice balloon hint appears showing you the number of parameters and their types. Tooltip help is the biggest single reason for using an IDE. It is genuinely useful and not available on any straight editor I know of. However if you are using a >>> prompt you can type help() to get the same info, but it is slower. But if you are familiar with Python and its libraries its not needed all that often. (And some people do get irritated by tooltips, I used to in Delphi when I was an expert and I turned them off but now, as an occasional programmer I do find them helpful) don't know off hand the values. Maybe someone could share how they go about programming a good size program with VIM as I would like to use it. You program the modules in small chunks. You design the structure of the program and build it bottom up. And I use the >>> prompt for ad-hoc testing and experimentation a lot. I bounce between the OS shell (to execute the program(*), the Python shell to try out code ideas, and the editor. (*) Some prefer to run the code from inside the editor but I find that loses the output which is often what I want to see so I use a separate OS window. That also means there is no strange environmental stuff altering the behaviour. get me wrong for quick programs I will use VIM or notepad, but when it comes to building a OOP program I find Eclipse or Pyscripter much easier to use. See I'm the opposite, I use Pythonwin or Eclipse for building small programs but bigger things with multiple modukles I go for vim or Scite. PyScripter looks like it might just win me over if I persevere, pity I can't get the debugger to work at all... Some of this might just be what we are used to too. Remember that IDEs as such didn't really come into existence till about 12-15 years ago. Those of us who have notched up more than 2 or 3 decades of coding have probably just not got used to the new concepts yet! Unix was the original IDE! :-) HTH, -- Alan Gauld Author of the Learn to Program web site http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Best Python Editor
On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 5:55 AM, Tom Green wrote: > Since VIM seems to be the editor of choice and I have been programming in > Python for many years using Pyscripter and Eclipse I was wondering how I > could transition away from the IDE world to VIM. My main issue is how do I > go about using VIM to debug my code? I usually use print statements and/or raw_input's if you want break points. > With Pyscripter and other IDES its as simple as placing a breakpoint and > pressing F7 to step thru the code and you have the ability to see the > variable values etc. I know you can do some similar things with the python debugger but I've honestly never used it that much (or worked on a project large enough I needed to!) > Also, with an IDE such as Pyscripter when calling a function a nice balloon > hint appears showing you the number of parameters and their types. It's not precisely the same thing, but you can fold multiple lines, which allows you to have only the top line of a function showing. I find that rather helpful, and ctrl-n autocompletes the function name. Then you can mark the location with m then a-to-z (I use c as a mnemonic for 'current') then move on top of the name and push * - that will find the next occurence of the word, which is often the function declaration. I just hit "n" (next) until I find it, if that's not the case. Then I type ` (the one over the tilde) then c which takes me back to my 'current' location. If you really wanted, though, you could also have horizontal split of the same file, and you could probably write a macro that would move to that window/buffer and find the function declaraition (so it would search for def ). I don't know precisely how the dropdown autocomplete menu works but you could also probably edit your script to add parameters for the function call just like an IDE. > Coming from a Visual Studio background this is great, as I might be > calling a function or method and I don't know off hand the values. Maybe > someone could share how they go about programming a good size program with > VIM as I would like to use it. Don't get me wrong for quick programs I will > use VIM or notepad, but when it comes to building a OOP program I find > Eclipse or Pyscripter much easier to use. I suppose that's probably the case for a few people - and certainly the reason those tools exist in the first place. If I were working on a quite large program I might consider using an IDE, but in reality I'm probably just as comfortable jumping around code to look for the information I need as I would be using an IDE. HTH, Wayne > On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 12:54 AM, Eddie wrote: > >> I downloaded the previous version of PyScripter although couldn't get >> it to work and after googling it, I downloaded Python Portable 1.1 >> (Python 2.6.1 as most sites/books recommend this and not 3) which has >> PySCripter included and this then works fine.Ii also downloaded Komod0 >> 5.1 and after messing around with these, I think I prefer PyScripter >> and will use that for the mean time. >> >> I'll also take a look at VIM as being able to use the same program for >> PHP/CSS/HTML (and Basic if it supports it) as well as hopefully Python >> (I've only just started learning it) would be an advantage. >> >> Thanks guys >> Eddie >> >> 2009/6/14 Mike Hoy : >> >> >> >> >> >> I really like using F5 to run my code, so you can put in your .vimrc so >> >> you don't have to type it, or just type it every time: >> >> >> >> map :!python % >> >> >> >> and every time you hit it will run your current script. >> >> >> > Thanks for that. It's even better than typing :!python % because it >> doesn't >> > spawn a shell separate from the Vim window. >> > >> > ___ >> > Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org >> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor >> > >> > >> ___ >> Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor >> > > > ___ > Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor > > -- To be considered stupid and to be told so is more painful than being called gluttonous, mendacious, violent, lascivious, lazy, cowardly: every weakness, every vice, has found its defenders, its rhetoric, its ennoblement and exaltation, but stupidity hasn’t. - Primo Levi ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Best Python Editor
On Saturday 13 June 2009 02:44:53 am Eddie wrote: > Hi guys, > > What would you regard as the best free Python editor to use on Windows > for a new guy? Searching Google i see that there is quite a few out > there and is "VIM" the best one to go with? > > Regards > Eddie > ___ > Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor Looks like no one has suggested "wing" (a free version and cost version). I've been using it for years - but I like ide's and it works well with wxpython. Also net-beans supports python, along with eclipse. Then there's eric if you like qt. Then something called drPython (I think). -- John Fabiani ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Best Python Editor
Since VIM seems to be the editor of choice and I have been programming in Python for many years using Pyscripter and Eclipse I was wondering how I could transition away from the IDE world to VIM. My main issue is how do I go about using VIM to debug my code? With Pyscripter and other IDES its as simple as placing a breakpoint and pressing F7 to step thru the code and you have the ability to see the variable values etc. Also, with an IDE such as Pyscripter when calling a function a nice balloon hint appears showing you the number of parameters and their types. Coming from a Visual Studio background this is great, as I might be calling a function or method and I don't know off hand the values. Maybe someone could share how they go about programming a good size program with VIM as I would like to use it. Don't get me wrong for quick programs I will use VIM or notepad, but when it comes to building a OOP program I find Eclipse or Pyscripter much easier to use. Regards, T. Green On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 12:54 AM, Eddie wrote: > I downloaded the previous version of PyScripter although couldn't get > it to work and after googling it, I downloaded Python Portable 1.1 > (Python 2.6.1 as most sites/books recommend this and not 3) which has > PySCripter included and this then works fine.Ii also downloaded Komod0 > 5.1 and after messing around with these, I think I prefer PyScripter > and will use that for the mean time. > > I'll also take a look at VIM as being able to use the same program for > PHP/CSS/HTML (and Basic if it supports it) as well as hopefully Python > (I've only just started learning it) would be an advantage. > > Thanks guys > Eddie > > 2009/6/14 Mike Hoy : > >> > >> > >> I really like using F5 to run my code, so you can put in your .vimrc so > >> you don't have to type it, or just type it every time: > >> > >> map :!python % > >> > >> and every time you hit it will run your current script. > >> > > Thanks for that. It's even better than typing :!python % because it > doesn't > > spawn a shell separate from the Vim window. > > > > ___ > > Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor > > > > > ___ > Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor > ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Best Python Editor
I downloaded the previous version of PyScripter although couldn't get it to work and after googling it, I downloaded Python Portable 1.1 (Python 2.6.1 as most sites/books recommend this and not 3) which has PySCripter included and this then works fine.Ii also downloaded Komod0 5.1 and after messing around with these, I think I prefer PyScripter and will use that for the mean time. I'll also take a look at VIM as being able to use the same program for PHP/CSS/HTML (and Basic if it supports it) as well as hopefully Python (I've only just started learning it) would be an advantage. Thanks guys Eddie 2009/6/14 Mike Hoy : >> >> >> I really like using F5 to run my code, so you can put in your .vimrc so >> you don't have to type it, or just type it every time: >> >> map :!python % >> >> and every time you hit it will run your current script. >> > Thanks for that. It's even better than typing :!python % because it doesn't > spawn a shell separate from the Vim window. > > ___ > Tutor maillist - tu...@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor > > ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Best Python Editor
> > > > I really like using F5 to run my code, so you can put in your .vimrc so you > don't have to type it, or just type it every time: > > map :!python % > > and every time you hit it will run your current script. > > Thanks for that. It's even better than typing :!python % because it doesn't spawn a shell separate from the Vim window. ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Best Python Editor
On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 7:40 PM, Mike Hoy wrote: > Try out Vim. It may take you a week to get used to it. Best thing I ever > did was finally get started on Vim. Once I got used to it I was very happy. > Google around for Vim tutorials. There is a #VIM channel on freenode I > believe. There is also a VIM mailing list that is very helpful. You won't > need these for long. Once you get used to it and think you've learned all > you can you find out there's even more stuff you can do with it. > > > So it's something that you use for life once you get that feeling of > enlightenment that comes from never having to remove your hands from the > keyboard. I'm another viim fanatic; I use two terminals - one with vim and one with ipython (I write most of my code on linux). When I'm on windows I have a cmd window open with Ipython and I have a gVim window open. I'm sure I barely scratch the surface of things I can do and I know I've stopped using some things that I'm sure I'll start using the more I code. I really like using F5 to run my code, so you can put in your .vimrc so you don't have to type it, or just type it every time: map :!python % and every time you hit it will run your current script. Of course I also write code in c++ for school, so I have a few different keys that will change the F5 bindings. Anyhow, the best way to write code is in what you're most comfortable with and enjoy. And of course I believe that everyone should enjoy vim ;) But you should give all the aforementioned tools a try and see what works best for you. HTH! Wayne ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Best Python Editor
Try out Vim. It may take you a week to get used to it. Best thing I ever did was finally get started on Vim. Once I got used to it I was very happy. Google around for Vim tutorials. There is a #VIM channel on freenode I believe. There is also a VIM mailing list that is very helpful. You won't need these for long. Once you get used to it and think you've learned all you can you find out there's even more stuff you can do with it. If you wanna try Emacs go for it. You don't need an IDE for python. In the very beginning of writing python I wrote on windows using notepad and Linux using Gedit. While Gedit was better it was nothing compared to Vim. My favorite thing to do is open vim one one document I'm working on, then split the screen horizonatally for each other relevent document I'm working on. I can thing split it vertically as well. I also know that once you have saved your python document in vim you can test out your code by typing :!python % and it invokes the python interpreter in a shell for that script. Then when the program is done it returns to Vim. It also indents and colors syntax for my other languages as well: C/Java/HTML/CSS. So it's something that you use for life once you get that feeling of enlightenment that comes from never having to remove your hands from the keyboard. ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Best Python Editor
wrote The current release of Pyscripter is not stable. Drop back one release and you'll find a very solid product. Sounds interesting. What is the stable version and where can it be found? Here's the version we use: Version 1.7.2, Oct 2006 http://mmm-experts.com/Downloads.aspx?ProductId=4 Thats the version I downloaded. The debugger was very iffy and the variables pane just threw up Windows exception dialogs. The core editor and shell windows seemed fine though Alan G ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Best Python Editor
On Saturday 13 June 2009 04:44, Eddie wrote: > Hi guys, > > What would you regard as the best free Python editor to use on Windows > for a new guy? Searching Google i see that there is quite a few out > there and is "VIM" the best one to go with? > > Regards > Eddie I've tried a lot of editors, and my current favorite (cross platform, many languages/just text) is Kate (http://www.kate-editor.org/kate), available on windoze via KDE on Windows (http://windows.kde.org/), select kdesdk-msvc from the list of packages while in the installion tool. Cheers ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Best Python Editor
Thanks for the input guys. I think I'll give PyScripter (the previous version that was linked to) and Komodo a try and see which I like best. Eddie 2009/6/14 Ataulla S H : > Hi All, > > I have been using komodo from last two yrs. > > Its really very good open source editor. > > we can use this editor to edit python, php, Ruby, html > > On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 9:52 PM, wrote: The current release of Pyscripter is not stable. Drop back one release and you'll find a very solid product. >> >>> Sounds interesting. What is the stable version and where can it be found? >> >> Ken, >> >> Here's the version we use: >> >> Version 1.7.2, Oct 2006 >> http://mmm-experts.com/Downloads.aspx?ProductId=4 >> >> The most current release (w/2.6.x and 3.x support) can be found here: >> http://code.google.com/p/pyscripter/ >> >> We tried running newer releases earlier this year and had lots of >> problems. The very latest versions on code.google may be better, but we >> haven't looked at them. >> >> I am interested in hearing feedback on anyone running the most recent >> release of Pyscripter. >> >> Malcolm >> >> >> . >> ___ >> Tutor maillist - tu...@python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor >> > > > > -- > Ataulla SH > > web:www.kring.com > personal blog:www.ataulla.objectis.net > KRING Technologies India Pvt. Ltd. > 1st Floor, Tower B, Infinity Towers, DLF II, Gurgaon-122 002 > ___ > Tutor maillist - tu...@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor > ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Best Python Editor
Hi All, I have been using komodo from last two yrs. Its really very good open source editor. we can use this editor to edit python, php, Ruby, html On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 9:52 PM, wrote: >>> The current release of Pyscripter is not stable. Drop back one release and >>> you'll find a very solid product. > >> Sounds interesting. What is the stable version and where can it be found? > > Ken, > > Here's the version we use: > > Version 1.7.2, Oct 2006 > http://mmm-experts.com/Downloads.aspx?ProductId=4 > > The most current release (w/2.6.x and 3.x support) can be found here: > http://code.google.com/p/pyscripter/ > > We tried running newer releases earlier this year and had lots of > problems. The very latest versions on code.google may be better, but we > haven't looked at them. > > I am interested in hearing feedback on anyone running the most recent > release of Pyscripter. > > Malcolm > > > . > ___ > Tutor maillist - tu...@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor > -- Ataulla SH web:www.kring.com personal blog:www.ataulla.objectis.net KRING Technologies India Pvt. Ltd. 1st Floor, Tower B, Infinity Towers, DLF II, Gurgaon-122 002 ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Best Python Editor
>> The current release of Pyscripter is not stable. Drop back one release and >> you'll find a very solid product. > Sounds interesting. What is the stable version and where can it be found? Ken, Here's the version we use: Version 1.7.2, Oct 2006 http://mmm-experts.com/Downloads.aspx?ProductId=4 The most current release (w/2.6.x and 3.x support) can be found here: http://code.google.com/p/pyscripter/ We tried running newer releases earlier this year and had lots of problems. The very latest versions on code.google may be better, but we haven't looked at them. I am interested in hearing feedback on anyone running the most recent release of Pyscripter. Malcolm . ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Best Python Editor
-Original Message- >From: pyt...@bdurham.com >Sent: Jun 13, 2009 10:16 AM >To: Alan Gauld , tutor@python.org >Subject: Re: [Tutor] Best Python Editor > >Alan, > >> I spoke a wee bit too soon. The editor is nice but the debugger and some of >> the other tools windows (eg variables) are broken. Pity, lots of potential >> here. > >The current release of Pyscripter is not stable. > >Drop back one release and you'll find a very solid product. > >Malcolm Sounds interesting. What is the stable version and where can it be found? . ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Best Python Editor
Alan, > I spoke a wee bit too soon. The editor is nice but the debugger and some of > the other tools windows (eg variables) are broken. Pity, lots of potential > here. The current release of Pyscripter is not stable. Drop back one release and you'll find a very solid product. Malcolm ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Best Python Editor
"Alan Gauld" wrote I just did, Wow!, this looks like a superb IDE. I spoke a wee bit too soon. The editor is nice but the debugger and some of the other tools windows (eg variables) are broken. Pity, lots of potential here. Alan G. ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Best Python Editor
"Tom Green" wrote For Windows check out PyScripter. I just did, Wow!, this looks like a superb IDE. Thanks for posting, its a new one for me although its been out for quite a while. And the P4D delphi plugin looks useful too. Thanks again, Alan G. ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Best Python Editor
"Eddie" wrote What would you regard as the best free Python editor to use on Windows for a new guy? Searching Google i see that there is quite a few out there and is "VIM" the best one to go with? vim is a great editor, especially if you use multiple OS, but it has a steep learning curve. I'd recommend Pythonwin for a newbie learning Python. Or Scite as a general purpoase programmers editor - it has the advantage of tabbed editing windows for working with multiple windows, but otherwise is the same basic editing widget that Pythonwin uses. (Notepad++ also uses the same components and is very similar to scite) But there are zillions of programmers editors and choice is extremely personal. Other popular choices for Windows include Eclipse, Winedit, emacs, etc... But for Python specific work I'd go with Pythonwin. -- Alan Gauld Author of the Learn to Program web site http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Best Python Editor
For Windows check out PyScripter. Its IDE is similar to Borland Delphi and I find it very easy to use. Whatever works for you would be "best" for you. PyScripter is FREE and I would highly recommend it for people who are new to Python or people with programming experience that are used to programming in a IDE. Regards, T. Green On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 6:52 AM, Dave Angel wrote: > Eddie wrote: > > Hi guys, >> >> What would you regard as the best free Python editor to use on Windows >> for a new guy? Searching Google i see that there is quite a few out >> there and is "VIM" the best one to go with? >> >> Regards >> Eddie >> >> >> > This is such a common question on the python forums it ought to be in a > FAQ, and maybe it is. > > VI and EMACS are the two "standard" Unix editors, going back decades. > Somebody used to the flexibility of either of those two, who is now stuck > on Windows, would naturally not want to give up any of the "customizability" > of these. And people have posted macros for each to automate some of the > things you'd like for Python, such as auto-indent. VIM is an editor in that > heritage. > > Somebody who's used Windows for 20 years, however, might expect that > Ctrl-S, Ctrl-F4, Alt-F4, etc. have standard meanings. So they might be more > comfortable in an editor that starts with the Windows interface, and builds > on it. I use metapad for many things, though not for Python. Others use > Notepad++. > > Next question is whether you want an IDE. The ability to single-step in > the debugger, locate and fix a problem in source, and start again, in a > single environment is appealing. When I have a stack trace showing in the > debugger, I can use the debugger to locate the source at any level of that > stack without having to explicitly load the file and jump to the specified > line number. And no risk that the same file is already loaded into some > other editor and I'm going to lose changes if some are made one place and > some another. And of course, it's nice to have a locals window, a globals > window, a watch window, ... > > People that do not like an IDE cite the advantage of using a single editor > for several programming languages, for word processing, and for web design. > If such an editor is highly programmable, that would seem very good as > well. > > So then it comes down to opinion. I use the (not-free) Komodo IDE. There > is a free Komodo-Edit with most of the same features, but I really don't > know what subset it includes. It is programmable with many canned add-ins, > or you can customize it yourself with recorded macros and with scripts in > Python or (I think) Javascript. Its addin technology is related somehow to > Firefox, and I think it used a lot of the Mozilla code in its engine. The > default UI is very familiar to people with Windows experience, though I > don't know how it works on Mac and Linux > > http://www.activestate.com/komodo/Komodo IDE > http://www.activestate.com/komodo_edit/ opensource Komodo Edit > http://www.activestate.com/komodo_edit/comparison/comparison between > the two > > > > > ___ > Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor > ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Best Python Editor
Eddie wrote: Hi guys, What would you regard as the best free Python editor to use on Windows for a new guy? Searching Google i see that there is quite a few out there and is "VIM" the best one to go with? Regards Eddie This is such a common question on the python forums it ought to be in a FAQ, and maybe it is. VI and EMACS are the two "standard" Unix editors, going back decades. Somebody used to the flexibility of either of those two, who is now stuck on Windows, would naturally not want to give up any of the "customizability" of these. And people have posted macros for each to automate some of the things you'd like for Python, such as auto-indent. VIM is an editor in that heritage. Somebody who's used Windows for 20 years, however, might expect that Ctrl-S, Ctrl-F4, Alt-F4, etc. have standard meanings. So they might be more comfortable in an editor that starts with the Windows interface, and builds on it. I use metapad for many things, though not for Python. Others use Notepad++. Next question is whether you want an IDE. The ability to single-step in the debugger, locate and fix a problem in source, and start again, in a single environment is appealing. When I have a stack trace showing in the debugger, I can use the debugger to locate the source at any level of that stack without having to explicitly load the file and jump to the specified line number. And no risk that the same file is already loaded into some other editor and I'm going to lose changes if some are made one place and some another. And of course, it's nice to have a locals window, a globals window, a watch window, ... People that do not like an IDE cite the advantage of using a single editor for several programming languages, for word processing, and for web design. If such an editor is highly programmable, that would seem very good as well. So then it comes down to opinion. I use the (not-free) Komodo IDE. There is a free Komodo-Edit with most of the same features, but I really don't know what subset it includes. It is programmable with many canned add-ins, or you can customize it yourself with recorded macros and with scripts in Python or (I think) Javascript. Its addin technology is related somehow to Firefox, and I think it used a lot of the Mozilla code in its engine. The default UI is very familiar to people with Windows experience, though I don't know how it works on Mac and Linux http://www.activestate.com/komodo/Komodo IDE http://www.activestate.com/komodo_edit/ opensource Komodo Edit http://www.activestate.com/komodo_edit/comparison/comparison between the two ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Best Python Editor
2009/6/13 Eddie : > Hi guys, > > What would you regard as the best free Python editor to use on Windows > for a new guy? Searching Google i see that there is quite a few out > there and is "VIM" the best one to go with? Vim is a general purpose programmer's editor with python support, rather than a python-specific editor. Vim has incredibly powerful at editing text, but the learning curve is steep. Personally, I think it's great, though :-) But really, if you ask ten programmers what the best editor is, you'll probably get twelve answers. I'm sure you could find many discussions on this topic in the list archives. -- John. ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
[Tutor] Best Python Editor
Hi guys, What would you regard as the best free Python editor to use on Windows for a new guy? Searching Google i see that there is quite a few out there and is "VIM" the best one to go with? Regards Eddie ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
