Re: [Tutor] Python and Tkinter Programming by Grayson--New Version?
On Thu, 25 Nov 2010, Alan Gauld wrote: Yves Dextraze yd...@videotron.ca wrote Sent from my iPod There is no mention on Amazon of any new editions and they usually announce several months in advance... A pity a new Tkinter book using Tix and ttk instead of PMW would be a really useful resource! Odd -- Yves's note shows up on my system as a reply in a long-dormant thread from March 2009. ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Python and Tkinter Programming by Grayson--New Version?
On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 7:18 PM, Terry Carroll carr...@tjc.com wrote: On Thu, 25 Nov 2010, Alan Gauld wrote: Yves Dextraze yd...@videotron.ca wrote Sent from my iPod There is no mention on Amazon of any new editions and they usually announce several months in advance... A pity a new Tkinter book using Tix and ttk instead of PMW would be a really useful resource! Odd -- Yves's note shows up on my system as a reply in a long-dormant thread from March 2009. i agree with alan's sentiment though. perhaps someone just brought up a server recently (where this msg was in the outbox)? -- wesley - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Python Web Development with Django, Addison Wesley, (c) 2009 http://withdjango.com wesley.j.chun :: wescpy-at-gmail.com python training and technical consulting cyberweb.consulting : silicon valley, ca http://cyberwebconsulting.com ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Python and Tkinter Programming by Grayson--New Version?
Sent from my iPod ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Python and Tkinter Programming by Grayson--New Version?
Yves Dextraze yd...@videotron.ca wrote Sent from my iPod There is no mention on Amazon of any new editions and they usually announce several months in advance... A pity a new Tkinter book using Tix and ttk instead of PMW would be a really useful resource! Alan G. ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Python and Tkinter Programming by Grayson--New Version?
Here is the news about a new Tk in Python: (Posted on the TkDocs web site - the home of Tk) February 03, 2009 Ttk support in Python. Guilherme Polo passed along the great news that his pyttk module has been accepted into Python's standard library. That means we should see pyttk generally available with Python 2.7 and 3.1 (both still in development). You can see the current docs here. And of course, this is something I was waiting for before updating TkDocs with Python info and examples. Thanks for all your hard work Guilherme! Note this seems to be a recent web site and they are still building a lot of the documentation, but it looks like it should turn into a very useful Tk resource. As for the Tkinter mailing list. You can either watch it via the gmane news feed (which I do) and using your preferred news reader subscribe to: gmane.comp.python.tkinter Or on the web at: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.tkinter or go to http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tkinter-discuss to sign up for the emails. HTH, Alan Gauld Author of the Learn To Program website http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ From: Wayne Watson sierra_mtnv...@sbcglobal.net To: ALAN GAULD alan.ga...@btinternet.com Sent: Wednesday, 18 March, 2009 12:25:58 PM Subject: Re: [Tutor] Python and Tkinter Programming by Grayson--New Version? How do I get to that mail list? I see no evidence of a new Tkinter in my internet Googling. Maybe it's going by a new name? ALAN GAULD wrote: Tk is far from dead. Try the Tkinter mailing list, it is at least as busy as the tutor one. And the Tcl/Tk side of things has had a new lease of life over the past two years with a complete re-architecture of Tk resulting in the new native-look widgets. We just need that new found activity to translate to Tkinter... Alan Gauld Author of the Learn To Program website http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ From: Wayne Watson sierra_mtnv...@sbcglobal.net To: Alan Gauld alan.ga...@btinternet.com Sent: Wednesday, 18 March, 2009 2:24:52 AM Subject: Re: [Tutor] Python and Tkinter Programming by Grayson--New Version? Working with Tkinter is like trying to dig through fossils. So much out there is old or incomplete. It's like the Tk species went extinct. The trail seems to end in 2005. I think I read it's not quite dead, and a newer looking is coming. Alan Gauld wrote: Wayne Watson sierra_mtnv...@sbcglobal.net wrote I've poked around at the pieces of the book in Subject, which are on the web It was published in 2000, first ed. It looks quite good, and certainly is big, About a third of it is reference material. Not a bad thing, I use it a lot, but other sources have the same stuff. A lot is PMW which although still active I think, is no longer the only add on toolkit. Indeed Tix is now partof the standard library and adds a lot of the same sort of things. (Tabbed notebooks etc) The other oddity is a fair portion of the book is taken up with building photo-realistic UIs. This is not something I've ever found a need for! It is quite impressive but of distinctly limitedvalue for most programmers IMHO. I'd like to think the author is going to produce another version. I've seen no signs of that. And although some of the newer widgets are not included very little of the book is out of date. OTOH if you just need a reference the Tcl/Tk in a Nutshell by O'Reilly might suit just as well and is available very cheaply second hand on Amazon... It is my second most used Tk source. (after Lundh's online reference, Grayson is my third!) It also covers Tix. Alan G. ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor -- Signature.html Wayne Watson (Watson Adventures, Prop., Nevada City, CA) (121.01 Deg. W, 39.26 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std. time) “Life is one damn thing after another. -- Mark Twain -- Signature.html Wayne Watson (Watson Adventures, Prop., Nevada City, CA) (121.01 Deg. W, 39.26 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std. time) “Life is one damn thing after another. -- Mark Twain ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Python and Tkinter Programming by Grayson--New Version?
Thanks.
Interesting. I went to the web site and thought I'd find out about how
NNTP works. I clicked the line, and nothing happened, so I explored
some other info, and came back here. As I opened your msg, I wizard
showed up from SeaMonkey. I clicked cancel, and then realized that must
be what I needed to get to gname, etc. Slow going at almost noon here.
As I wander around the internet trying to get info from Lundh, New
Mexico, and other sites, I wonder if, in particular New Mexico is not
using the "new" Tkinter. How would I know?
Still waiting for the wizard.
ALAN GAULD wrote:
Here
is the news about a new Tk in Python:
(Posted on the TkDocs web site - the home of Tk)
February 03, 2009
Ttk support in Python.
Guilherme Polo passed along the
great news that his pyttk module has been
accepted into Python's standard library.
That means we should see pyttk generally available
with Python 2.7 and 3.1 (both still in development). You can see the current docs
here. And of course, this is something I was waiting for before
updating TkDocs with Python info and examples.
Thanks for all your hard work Guilherme!
Note this seems to be a recent web site and they
are still building a lot of the documentation,
but it looks like it should turn into a very
useful Tk resource.
As for the Tkinter mailing list. You can either
watch it via the gmane news feed (which I do)
and using your preferred news reader subscribe
to:
gmane.comp.python.tkinter
Or on the web at:
http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.tkinter
or go to
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tkinter-discuss
to sign up for the emails.
HTH,
Alan Gauld
Author of the Learn To Program website
http://www.alan-g.me.uk/
From:
Wayne Watson sierra_mtnv...@sbcglobal.net
To: ALAN GAULD
alan.ga...@btinternet.com
Sent: Wednesday, 18
March, 2009 12:25:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Tutor]
Python and Tkinter Programming by Grayson--New Version?
How do I get to that mail list?
I see no evidence of a "new" Tkinter in my internet Googling. Maybe
it's going by a new name?
ALAN GAULD wrote:
Tk
is far from dead.
Try the Tkinter mailing list, it is at
least as busy as the tutor one. And the
Tcl/Tk side of things has had a new
lease of life over the past two years
with a complete re-architecture of Tk
resulting in the new native-look widgets.
We just need that new found activity to
translate to Tkinter...
Alan Gauld
Author of the Learn To Program website
http://www.alan-g.me.uk/
From:
Wayne Watson sierra_mtnv...@sbcglobal.net
To: Alan Gauld
alan.ga...@btinternet.com
Sent: Wednesday, 18
March, 2009 2:24:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Tutor]
Python and Tkinter Programming by Grayson--New Version?
Working with Tkinter is like trying to dig through fossils. So much out
there is old or incomplete. It's like the Tk species went extinct. The
trail seems to end in 2005. I think I read it's not quite dead, and a
newer looking is coming.
Alan Gauld wrote:
"Wayne
Watson" sierra_mtnv...@sbcglobal.net
wrote
I've poked around at the pieces of the
book
in Subject, which are on the web
It was published in 2000, first ed. It looks quite good, and certainly
is big,
About a third of it is reference material. Not a bad thing, I use it a
lot, but
other sources have the same stuff. A lot is PMW which although still
active
I think, is no longer the only add on toolkit. Indeed Tix is now partof
the
standard library and adds a lot of the same sort of things. (Tabbed
notebooks
etc)
The other oddity is a fair portion of the book is taken up with
building
photo-realistic UIs. This is not something I've ever found a need for!
It is quite impressive but of distinctly limitedvalue for most
programmers
IMHO.
I'd like to think the author is going to
produce another version.
I've seen no signs of that. And although some of the newer widgets
are not included very little of the book is out of date.
OTOH if you just need a reference the "Tcl/Tk in a Nutshell" by
O'Reilly
might suit just as well and is available very cheaply second hand
on Amazon... It is my second most used Tk source. (after Lundh's
online reference, Grayson is my third!) It also covers Tix.
Alan G.
___
Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
--
Signature.html
Wayne Watson (Watson Adventures, Prop., Nevada City, CA)
(121.01 Deg. W, 39.26 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std. time)
“Life is one damn thing after another."
-- Mark Twain
--
Signature.html
Re: [Tutor] Python and Tkinter Programming by Grayson--New Version?
Wayne Watson sierra_mtnv...@sbcglobal.net wrote As I wander around the internet trying to get info from Lundh, New Mexico, and other sites, I wonder if, in particular New Mexico is not using the new Tkinter. How would I know? Nobody is using the new version yet, it's targetted for 3.1 and 2.7 - both are the next releases of Python oin their respective streams. But most of the existing documentation doesn't even cover the newer widgets added since 2.x - and none that I know of covers Tix at all. Still waiting for the wizard. There are lots of news readers around. Which OS are you on? There is also the web page which only requiires a browser, but the gmane archive is much easier accessed by a newsreader IMHO. February 03, 2009 Ttk support in Python. Guilherme Polo passed along the great news that his pyttk module has been accepted into Python's standard library. Â That means we should see pyttk generally available with Python 2.7 and 3.1 (both still in development). Â You can see the current docs here. Â And of course, this is something I was waiting for before updating TkDocs with Python info and examples. Thanks for all your hard work Guilherme! and using your preferred news reader subscribe to: gmane.comp.python.tkinter Or on the web at: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.tkinter ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Python and Tkinter Programming by Grayson--New Version?
Title: Signature.html Thanks. My computer continued to struggle. An hour later it was so bad I rebooted. Nothing like cleaning house. I seem to go for about 5-7 days, then things get clogged up. Running fine now. I think I'll be able to set up the newsreader now without any trouble. Alan Gauld wrote: "Wayne Watson" sierra_mtnv...@sbcglobal.net wrote As I wander around the internet trying to get info from Lundh, New Mexico, and other sites, I wonder if, in particular New Mexico is not using the "new" Tkinter. How would I know? Nobody is using the new version yet, it's targetted for 3.1 and 2.7 - both are the "next" releases of Python oin their respective streams. But most of the existing documentation doesn't even cover the newer widgets added since 2.x - and none that I know of covers Tix at all. Still waiting for the wizard. There are lots of news readers around. Which OS are you on? There is also the web page which only requiires a browser, but the gmane archive is much easier accessed by a newsreader IMHO. February 03, 2009 Ttk support in Python. Guilherme Polo passed along the great news that his pyttk module has been accepted into Python's standard library. Â That means we should see pyttk generally available with Python 2.7 and 3.1 (both still in development). Â You can see the current docs here. Â And of course, this is something I was waiting for before updating TkDocs with Python info and examples. -- Wayne Watson (Watson Adventures, Prop., Nevada City, CA) (121.01 Deg. W, 39.26 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std. time) “Life is one damn thing after another." -- Mark Twain ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Python and Tkinter Programming by Grayson--New Version?
Well, after all that churning hours ago before the PC went down, it actually set up the newreader. Wayne Watson wrote: Thanks. My computer continued to struggle. An hour later it was so bad I rebooted. Nothing like cleaning house. I seem to go for about 5-7 days, then things get clogged up. Running fine now. I think I'll be able to set up the newsreader now without any trouble. Alan Gauld wrote: "Wayne Watson" sierra_mtnv...@sbcglobal.net wrote As I wander around the internet trying to get info from Lundh, New Mexico, and other sites, I wonder if, in particular New Mexico is not using the "new" Tkinter. How would I know? Nobody is using the new version yet, it's targetted for 3.1 and 2.7 - both are the "next" releases of Python oin their respective streams. But most of the existing documentation doesn't even cover the newer widgets added since 2.x - and none that I know of covers Tix at all. Still waiting for the wizard. There are lots of news readers around. Which OS are you on? There is also the web page which only requiires a browser, but the gmane archive is much easier accessed by a newsreader IMHO. February 03, 2009 Ttk support in Python. Guilherme Polo passed along the great news that his pyttk module has been accepted into Python's standard library. Â That means we should see pyttk generally available with Python 2.7 and 3.1 (both still in development). Â You can see the current docs here. Â And of course, this is something I was waiting for before updating TkDocs with Python info and examples. -- Signature.html Wayne Watson (Watson Adventures, Prop., Nevada City, CA) (121.01 Deg. W, 39.26 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std. time) “Life is one damn thing after another." -- Mark Twain ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor -- Signature.html Wayne Watson (Watson Adventures, Prop., Nevada City, CA) (121.01 Deg. W, 39.26 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std. time) “Life is one damn thing after another." -- Mark Twain ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Python and Tkinter Programming by Grayson--New Version?
Wayne Watson sierra_mtnv...@sbcglobal.net wrote I've poked around at the pieces of the book in Subject, which are on the web It was published in 2000, first ed. It looks quite good, and certainly is big, About a third of it is reference material. Not a bad thing, I use it a lot, but other sources have the same stuff. A lot is PMW which although still active I think, is no longer the only add on toolkit. Indeed Tix is now partof the standard library and adds a lot of the same sort of things. (Tabbed notebooks etc) The other oddity is a fair portion of the book is taken up with building photo-realistic UIs. This is not something I've ever found a need for! It is quite impressive but of distinctly limitedvalue for most programmers IMHO. I'd like to think the author is going to produce another version. I've seen no signs of that. And although some of the newer widgets are not included very little of the book is out of date. OTOH if you just need a reference the Tcl/Tk in a Nutshell by O'Reilly might suit just as well and is available very cheaply second hand on Amazon... It is my second most used Tk source. (after Lundh's online reference, Grayson is my third!) It also covers Tix. Alan G. ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Python and Tkinter Programming by Grayson--New Version?
This is a super book for beginners who are new to GUI programming. Tkinter is easy to use, and comes included with Python. Serious programmers will probably want something faster, better looking, and with nicer features, but they can be tricky to figure out and install. I still prefer Tkinter for quick and dirty work or programs with simple interfaces. Pmw is a very nice system. I wish it was easily adapted to other GUI toolkits. Development on it has mostly ended, although not entirely, there was a new release within the last year. You will find it very useful if you write anything moderately interesting with Tkinter. This book does not cover the Tix widget set, which was originally created for Tcl/Tk and later included with Tkinter, after this book was published. I find that Pmw covers most of the problem space that Tix is suited for, but a beginner may have a different experience. I was disappointed when I heard that this book was no longer in print. I still have my copy, however, so all I need to do is make sure I clutch onto it tightly, and I'll be aright :) Cheers On Tuesday 17 March 2009 10:08, Wayne Watson wrote: I've poked around at the pieces of the book in Subject, which are on the web--two chapters. It was published in 2000, first ed. It looks quite good, and certainly is big, 680 or so pages. He sells a digital version. It uses Pmw, which I barely no more than how to spell it. Is that even current any longer? I'd like to think the author is going to produce another version. Anyone know? Here's a clipped version of the contents. It got good review on Amazon. bout the cover xxii author online xxiii Part 1 Basic concepts 1 1 Python 3 1.1 Introduction to Python programming and a feature review 3 Why Python? 4, Where can Python be used? 5 1.2 Key data types: lists, tuples and dictionaries 5 Lists 5, Tuples 7, Dictionaries 8 1.3 Classes 9 How do classes describe objects? 9, Defining classes 9, Neat Python trick #10 9, Initializing an instance 10, Methods 10, Private and public variables and methods 11, Inheritance 11, Multiple inheritance 11, Mixin classes 11 2 Tkinter 12 2.1 The Tkinter module 12 What is Tkinter? 12, What about performance? 13, How do I use Tkinter? 13, Tkinter features 14 2.2 Mapping Tcl/Tk to Tkinter 14 2.3 Win32 and Unix GUIs 15 2.4 Tkinter class hierarchy 16 2.5 Tkinter widget appearance 17 3 Building an application 18 3.1 Calculator example: key features 21 3.2 Calculator example: source code 21 3.3 Examining the application structure 27 3.4 Extending the application 28 Part 2 Displays 29 4 Tkinter widgets 31 4.1 Tkinter widget tour 31 Toplevel 32, Frame 33, Label 35, Button 36, Entry 37, Radiobutton 37, Checkbutton 38, Menu 39, Message 42, Text 43, Canvas 44, Scrollbar 45, Listbox 45, Scale 46 4.2 Fonts and colors 47 Font descriptors 47, X Window System font descriptors 47, Colors 48, Setting application-wide default fonts and colors 49 4.3 Pmw Megawidget tour 49 AboutDialog 50, Balloon 50, ButtonBox 51, ComboBox 52, ComboBoxDialog 53, Counter 54, CounterDialog 55, Dialog 56, EntryField 56, Group 57, LabeledWidget 58, MenuBar 59, MessageBar 59, MessageDialog 61, NoteBookR 61, NoteBookS 62, NoteBook 63, OptionMenu 64, PanedWidget 65, PromptDialog 66, RadioSelect 66, ScrolledCanvas 67, ScrolledField 68, ScrolledFrame 69, ScrolledListbox 70, ScrolledText 70, SelectionDialog 71, TextDialog 72, TimeCounter 73 ... snip 8 Dialogs and forms 140 8.1 Dialogs 141 Standard dialogs 141, Data entry dialogs 142, Single-shot forms 146, Tkinter variables 152 8.2 A standard application framework 155 8.3 Data dictionaries 165 8.4 Notebooks 172 8.5 Browsers 175 8.6 Wizards 184 8.7 Image maps 191 8.8 Summary 198 9 Panels and machines 199 9.1 Building a front panel 199 9.2 Modularity 201 9.3 Implementing the front panel 201 9.4 GIF, BMP and overlays 215 9.5 And now for a more complete example 220 9.6 Virtual machines using POV-Ray 232 And now for something completely different... #10 The Example 233 9.7 Summary 236 10 Drawing blobs and rubber lines 237 10.1 Drawing on a canvas 238 Moving canvas objects 243 10.2 A more complete drawing program 244 10.3 Scrolled canvases 251 10.4 Ruler-class tools 254 10.5 Stretching canvas objects 258 10.6 Some finishing touches 262 10.7 Speed drawing 271 10.8 Summary 275 11 Graphs and charts 276 11.1 Simple graphs 276 11.2 A graph widget 279 Adding bargraphs 286, Pie charts 289 11.3 3-D graphs 292 11.4 Strip charts 296 11.5 Summary 298 12 Navigation 300 12.1 Introduction: navigation models 300 12.2 Mouse navigation 301 ... snip 18
Re: [Tutor] Python and Tkinter Programming by Grayson--New Version?
Chris Fuller cfuller...@thinkingplanet.net wrote easy to use, and comes included with Python. Serious programmers will probably want something faster, better looking, and with nicer features, The next versions of Python/Tkinter will apparently be based on the new widget set of Tk which has native look n feel on each platform so the ugly factor should at least dissappear! This book does not cover the Tix widget set, which was originally created for Tcl/Tk and later included with Tkinter, after this book was published. I find that Pmw covers most of the problem space that Tix is suited for, but a beginner may have a different experience. Between the new Tkinter standard widgets (Paned Window, Spinbox etc) and Tix virtually everything in PMW is available in the standard library. and there are some extras not in PMW like a Grid and Tree for example. One of the things on my ToDo list is to add a couple of new topics to my tutorial giving simple examples for all the Tkinter and Tix widgets... As much for my own benefit as anything! HTH, -- Alan G Author of the Learn to Program web site http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Python and Tkinter Programming by Grayson--New Version?
What sets Pmw apart is the framework it provides for the creation of your own megawidgets. It handles labels, forwards options from the constructor to the constructors of the subcomponents, forwards method calls (say your megawidget is descended from a Frame, but the main feature is a Scale widget), includes a set of standard data validators, etc. Cheers On Tuesday 17 March 2009 16:27, Alan Gauld wrote: Chris Fuller cfuller...@thinkingplanet.net wrote This book does not cover the Tix widget set, which was originally created for Tcl/Tk and later included with Tkinter, after this book was published. I find that Pmw covers most of the problem space that Tix is suited for, but a beginner may have a different experience. Between the new Tkinter standard widgets (Paned Window, Spinbox etc) and Tix virtually everything in PMW is available in the standard library. and there are some extras not in PMW like a Grid and Tree for example. ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Python and Tkinter Programming by Grayson--New Version?
Title: Signature.html Working with Tkinter is like trying to dig through fossils. So much out there is old or incomplete. It's like the Tk species went extinct. The trail seems to end in 2005. I think I read it's not quite dead, and a newer looking is coming. Alan Gauld wrote: "Wayne Watson" sierra_mtnv...@sbcglobal.net wrote I've poked around at the pieces of the book in Subject, which are on the web It was published in 2000, first ed. It looks quite good, and certainly is big, About a third of it is reference material. Not a bad thing, I use it a lot, but other sources have the same stuff. A lot is PMW which although still active I think, is no longer the only add on toolkit. Indeed Tix is now partof the standard library and adds a lot of the same sort of things. (Tabbed notebooks etc) The other oddity is a fair portion of the book is taken up with building photo-realistic UIs. This is not something I've ever found a need for! It is quite impressive but of distinctly limitedvalue for most programmers IMHO. I'd like to think the author is going to produce another version. I've seen no signs of that. And although some of the newer widgets are not included very little of the book is out of date. OTOH if you just need a reference the "Tcl/Tk in a Nutshell" by O'Reilly might suit just as well and is available very cheaply second hand on Amazon... It is my second most used Tk source. (after Lundh's online reference, Grayson is my third!) It also covers Tix. Alan G. ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor -- Wayne Watson (Watson Adventures, Prop., Nevada City, CA) (121.01 Deg. W, 39.26 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std. time) Life is one damn thing after another." -- Mark Twain ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
