Re: [Tutor] failing to learn python
Alan: As always, you make excellent points. Actually, there isn't much on which we disagree here, I think. I did not mean that other engineering disciplines necessarily employ less craftsmanship than does software. On the contrary, excellent craftsmanship can be found in all branches of engineering. One example will suffice: automotive engineering. Manufacturer _ [insert your favorite here] produces vehicles which are among the most finely crafted objects in the world. On the other hand, __ [again, take your pick) makes cars that exhibit horrible craftsmanship. Both are the products of automotive engineering, but the differences in reliability, safety, performance and economy, not to mention beauty, individuality and 'fine-ness' (a great term, IMHO), are obvious. I could cite examples from any other discipline, though I might have to spend some time in research; I'm a programmer, not an engineering historian. =8^) Anyway, my point was that no programming language is best in all cases or for all people. The preference of the engineer (craftsman, if you will) matters. Best Regards, Barry [EMAIL PROTECTED] 541-302-1107 We who cut mere stones must always be envisioning cathedrals. -Quarry worker's creed > -Original Message- > From: Alan Gauld [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 2:46 PM > To: Carroll, Barry; tutor@python.org > Subject: Re: [Tutor] failing to learn python > > > has been very interesting. It illustrates the fact that software > > engineering remains very much a craft. As with all crafts, is heavily > > influenced by the preferences (style if you will) of the individual > > artisan. There are very few 'right or wrong' answers here. > > Oops, you hit a hot button there. :-) > > > I don't think the multitude of styles or tools is any different to any > other engineering discipline and certainly doesn't indicate any more > craft status than the fact that different electrical engineers have > different > preferences of AVO meter type (analogue, digital, electronic, magnetic > etc - and most use several). Choosing the right tool for the job is just > as much part of the skill of the engineer as much as the artisan. > > Where there may be a difference is that the engineer may specify the > tools (and definitely the materials) during the design process, the > artisan may choose the tools and materials in an ad-hoc manner > as the work progresses. The engineer's goals are consistency and > economy whereas the artisans goals are "quality(*)" and individuality. > > (*)Engineers strive for quality too, but a pre-determined measure > of quality not the abstract concept of 'fine-ness' that craftsmen > generally > aim for. > > Software engineering, when practiced as engineering, is very little > different to other branches of engineering, unfortunately it is, for > various reasons, not often practiced as an engineering discipline > but as a craft. But the SE label is applied regardless! As in other > engineering disciplines it will take a large disaster with huge loss > of human life(*) due to badly designed software to force the industry > to adopt the kind of rigour demanded in other fields. It is entirely > possible now, it's just not practiced! > > (*)And even then only when that loss of life is accompanied by > correspondingly large insurance claims - or is that too cynical? > We'll find out fairly soon I'm sure... > > > > Alan G. > ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] failing to learn python
> has been very interesting. It illustrates the fact that software > engineering remains very much a craft. As with all crafts, is heavily > influenced by the preferences (style if you will) of the individual > artisan. There are very few 'right or wrong' answers here. Oops, you hit a hot button there. :-) I don't think the multitude of styles or tools is any different to any other engineering discipline and cerainly doesn't indicate any more craft status than the fact that different electrical engineers have different preferences of AVO meter type (analogue, digital, electronic, magnetic etc - and most use several). Chosing the right tool for the job is just as much part of the skill of the engineer as much as the artisan. Where there may be a difference is that the engineer may specify the tools (and definitely the materials) during the design process, the artisan may choose the tools and materials in an ad-hoc manner as the work progresses. The engineer's goals are consistency and economy whereas the artisans goals are "quality(*)" and individuality. (*)Engineers strive for quality too, but a pre-determined measure of quality not the abstract concept of 'fine-ness' that craftsmen generally aim for. Software engineering, when practiced as engineering, is very little different to other branches of engineering, unfortunately it is, for various reasons, not often practiced as an enginering disipline but as a craft. But the SE label is applied regardless! As in other engineering disciplines it will take a large disaster wiith huge loss of human life(*) due to badly designed software to force the industry to adopt the kind of rigour demanded oin other fields. It is entirely possible now, it's just not practiced! (*)And even then only when that loss of life is accompanied by correspondingly large insurance claims - or is that too cynical? We'll find out fairly soon I'm sure... Alan G. ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] failing to learn python
--- "Carroll, Barry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Greetings: > > The discussion surrounding this topic (by Payal, > Kent, Alan and others) > has been very interesting. It illustrates the fact > that software > engineering remains very much a craft. As with all > crafts, is heavily > influenced by the preferences (style if you will) of > the individual > artisan. There are very few 'right or wrong' > answers here. > > The tool that works well and feels comfortable when > used is the one that > should be used. When a new tool comes along, try it > out. If it makes > the work easier or faster, or the product better, > then use it. If not, > forget it. The product is the goal, not the tool. > > Regards, > > Barry > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > 541-302-1107 > > We who cut mere stones must always be envisioning > cathedrals. > > -Quarry worker's creed > > > > -Original Message- > > <> > > > > For me, I don't know those specialized tools and > I have chosen not > to > > > learn them because I don't often need their > capabilities and Python > can > > do > > > what they do. > > > > I must admit I use a myriad of tools, including > several text editors. > > Its one of the few areas where I disagree with > Hunt & Thomas > > in "the Pragmatic Programmer", they advocate > choosing one editor > > and using it exclusively, I use emacs, vim, xedit > and even ed on > > a daily basis (OK ed only once a month or so!) But > I also use > > awk and sed weekly. > > <> > > > > > ___ > Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor > Hi Barry, I do agree with you. I also would add the Linux/Windows 'dispute'. I am a BIG FAN of linux. Even at home I use linux 90% of the time. However, in some cases I use Windows, as well (to watch DVDs (movies), for example). Due to the stability of Windows in this (multimidia) case, I do prefer using it for watching movies. So. There is no reason to use just one programming language. I am a BIG FAN of Python, but I am studying Python, Shell programming, and MATLAB in paralell. Moreover, I am very interested in both Fortran and C. Hoffmann __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] failing to learn python
Greetings: The discussion surrounding this topic (by Payal, Kent, Alan and others) has been very interesting. It illustrates the fact that software engineering remains very much a craft. As with all crafts, is heavily influenced by the preferences (style if you will) of the individual artisan. There are very few 'right or wrong' answers here. The tool that works well and feels comfortable when used is the one that should be used. When a new tool comes along, try it out. If it makes the work easier or faster, or the product better, then use it. If not, forget it. The product is the goal, not the tool. Regards, Barry [EMAIL PROTECTED] 541-302-1107 We who cut mere stones must always be envisioning cathedrals. -Quarry worker's creed > -Original Message- <> > > For me, I don't know those specialized tools and I have chosen not to > > learn them because I don't often need their capabilities and Python can > do > > what they do. > > I must admit I use a myriad of tools, including several text editors. > Its one of the few areas where I disagree with Hunt & Thomas > in "the Pragmatic Programmer", they advocate choosing one editor > and using it exclusively, I use emacs, vim, xedit and even ed on > a daily basis (OK ed only once a month or so!) But I also use > awk and sed weekly. <> > ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] failing to learn python
> the best tools. If you know shell, egrep and awk, they are probably better > than Python at doing the things they do. > > For me, I don't know those specialized tools and I have chosen not to > learn them because I don't often need their capabilities and Python can do > what they do. I must admit I use a myriad of tools, including several text editors. Its one of the few areas where I disagree with Hunt & Thomas in "the Pragmatic Programmer", they advocate choosing one editor and using it exclusively, I use emacs, vim, xedit and even ed on a daily basis (OK ed only once a month or so!) But I also use awk and sed weekly. I've also don't think I've ever worked on a production project that used less than 5 languages and some have used 12 or more. Awk in particular is one that I think every programmer should know, at least at a basic level, in the same way as everyone should learn a little Tcl and a little Lisp(*). These languages are sufficiently different to mainstream in structure that we can learn a lot about how to create programs by looking at their approach. It's fair to say that we probably wouldn't have ElementTree, BeautifulSoup, SAX or any other event driven parsers today if it weren't for awk and its elegant approach to working with text files. (*)For those building business apps I'd add COBOL to the list. It's not just history that makes it still the most widely used language on the planet according to Infoweek. Alan G Author of the learn to program web tutor http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] failing to learn python
> can I use Python. Everyone says it is a "general programming language", > but what in the world is a "general programming language"? Others have already answered this. I'll add a few other comments. A general purpose language is one that in theory means you don't need any others. It can do anything. It may not do everything as well as special purppose tools like sed but it can do anything. Where sys admins typically use tools like Python is in producing well formatted reports, particularly nowadays on web pages. Or maybe you have to do a lot of SQL admin on a database and python's database links will allow you to write a single script which is easier to maintain than lots of separate ones. Where python is likely to be more useful to you is where you have long shell scripts rather than long awk/sed scripts. Shell scripts are fine as application launchers but if you need to process the output of commands and have long multi way if/else chains the Python may offer better facilities. But if you are working exclusively on Unix and you know the 400+ Unix commands well you may very well have little use for Python. I certainly don;t use it for much sys admin stuff, I tend to use it to write GUI front ends for the tools, or for writing networking applications or testing new protocols. One example where a tool like Python may be of use to you would be in building an interactive diff tool. The standard diff tools in Unix only allow comparison of 3 files, but if you have 6 or 8 versions you need to compare then using python you can build your own diff tool to compare 8 files if needed. And with the low cost of disk space file management of concurrent versions is becoming an issue for many admins... > The Python video said that one can take this language to good level in 1 > afternoon, for me it has been 2 months and more. What is wrong? Probably nothing. That claim refers to someone who is already fluent in another general purpose language like C or Java. Such a programmer can indeed get to the point where they can write a reasonable program in Python after a few hours with the official tutorial. A beginner will take more like 4-6 months to get really comfortable. You probably fit somewhere in the middle depending on your awk or shell skill level. If your awk action clauses run to 10s of lines then you probably do know enough to learn Python quickly but if you typically only write 3 or 4 lines in an action clause then Python will be more challenging. HTH, Alan G Author of the learn to program web tutor http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] failing to learn python
On Wed, 12 Apr 2006, Payal Rathod wrote: > can I use Python. Everyone says it is a "general programming language", > but what in the world is a "general programming language"? One idea behind a "general purpose programming language" is that it's not specialized toward anything in particular. It's meant to be malliable and a bit formless. A programmer makes what one can with it. > e.g. for parsing log files with regex I rather use egrep than Python. > For counting the number of mails received for a user I use awk And for text parsing and processing, I think that's perfectly right, and you're using the best tools for that application. (Actually, you might want to look into Perl, which integrates regexes very deeply into its language.) You're more effective with those tools because awk and sed are domain-specific: they are specifically designed to do text processing very well. You can think of Python as a tool-maker. If you already are working in solely in one domain, where there are already plenty of tools already written for you, then you may not get so much out of a general-purpose language. This point is made in an amusing way in Literate Programming: http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~uno/lp.html The story goes that Knuth, when given the common-words problem, wrote up beautiful algorithm, designed a cool data structure to support it, and wrote it all in literate programming style. Bentley, on the other hand, used awk and other shell utilities, and in a few minutes, got a more correct solution. *grin* > But what does Python excel at. That si my main question. Whatevfer I > think of I can already do or know a way to do in shell. I am not getting > where would I need Python. But _someone_ had to write awk and sed: they didn't come fully-formed from the head of Zeus. That's what a general-purpose language like Python is for. You wouldn't write a web application in sed or awk because those two languages have limitations on what they're allowed to touch. > The Python video said that one can take this language to good level in 1 > afternoon, for me it has been 2 months and more. What is wrong? No, you're not wrong. Anyone who says that programming can be learned in an afternoon is selling something. *grin* ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] failing to learn python
Payal Rathod wrote: > On Tue, Apr 11, 2006 at 07:35:15PM +0100, Alan Gauld wrote: >> Python is a general programmjing language great for bigger jobs. If > > But what does Python excel at. That si my main question. Whatevfer I > think of I can already do or know a way to do in shell. I am not getting > where would I need Python. > e.g. for parsing log files with regex I rather use egrep than Python. > For counting the number of mails received for a user I use awk, where It's possible that for the jobs you need to do, you are already using the best tools. If you know shell, egrep and awk, they are probably better than Python at doing the things they do. For me, I don't know those specialized tools and I have chosen not to learn them because I don't often need their capabilities and Python can do what they do. Maybe not as easily to one fluent in both, but I would rather learn one tool that is widely useful than several narrow ones that I would use rarely. > can I use Python. Everyone says it is a "general programming language", > but what in the world is a "general programming language"? A programming language that can be used for a wide variety of tasks, rather than being specialized to a particular domain. Some things that Python can be used for that might be hard with the tools you know: mailing list manager (Mailman) spam filter (SpamBayes) distributed file sharing (BitTorrent) dynamic web site (Django, TurboGears, etc, etc) web scraping (urllib, BeautifulSoup) XML processing (ElementTree, etc) GUIs (Tkinter, wxPython, etc) Also take a look at some of the case studies here: http://www.python.org/about/success/ or search sourceforge.net for Python projects. Kent ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] failing to learn python
On Tue, Apr 11, 2006 at 07:35:15PM +0100, Alan Gauld wrote: > Python is a general programmjing language great for bigger jobs. If But what does Python excel at. That si my main question. Whatevfer I think of I can already do or know a way to do in shell. I am not getting where would I need Python. e.g. for parsing log files with regex I rather use egrep than Python. For counting the number of mails received for a user I use awk, where can I use Python. Everyone says it is a "general programming language", but what in the world is a "general programming language"? The Python video said that one can take this language to good level in 1 afternoon, for me it has been 2 months and more. What is wrong? With warm regards, -Payal ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] failing to learn python
> On Mon, Apr 10, 2006 at 04:20:37PM -0700, Danny Yoo wrote: >> http://gnosis.cx/TPiP/ > > I will read that and Alan's tutorial too (isn't that MS-Windows specific > ???) Nope, it usually mentions *nix workarounds etc Most of it is OS neutral. The OS and IPC topic are mainly Unix centric. > without proving it at all. All the examples I wanted were done better in > shell/sed/awk. I use Python a lot but I still use sed and awk for what they are good at. Using the Right Tool for the Job is still a sound maxim. Python is a general programmjing language great for bigger jobs. If you just want to run a sequience of unix commands shell is better. If you want simple but bulk text manipulation awk or sed are best. Alan G. ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] failing to learn python
On Tue, 2006-04-11 at 12:06 -0400, Payal Rathod wrote: > The reason I am disgrunted with Python is because lack of good > documentation. http://www.python.org/doc/ The Python Docs - possibly you missed this because of the plethora of links. The Library Reference used to have the tag line: (keep this under your pillow) The Module Index is the other key starting point. http://rgruet.free.fr/PQR24/PQR2.4.html A very handy quick reference. I think Python has incredibly good documentation. Fred Drake and the other folks who write, edit and maintain the documentation do a wonderful job of keeping it fresh and current as the language changes. There are very few rough spots within the thousands of pages of text. It's been a while since I looked at the Tutorial. Is that where you felt let down? I felt compelled to respond to your post. I think the quality and quantity of Python documentation is hard to beat. -- Lloyd Kvam Venix Corp ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] failing to learn python
On Mon, Apr 10, 2006 at 04:20:37PM -0700, Danny Yoo wrote: > http://gnosis.cx/TPiP/ I will read that and Alan's tutorial too (isn't that MS-Windows specific ???) The reason I am disgrunted with Python is because lack of good documentation. Shell programming has great text and so do sed and awk but Python texts are rather boring and just hooting that Python is cool without proving it at all. All the examples I wanted were done better in shell/sed/awk. But anyways thanks for the support I will dive into it again with fresh vigour. I will get back with any stupid queries I have. With warm regards, -Payal ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] failing to learn python
On 10/04/06, Payal Rathod <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > I am trying to learn Python seriously for almost 2 months but have not > gotten far at all. Infact, it seems I have not understood even the basic > concepts itself. I know some shell, sed and awk programming. > I have tried reading Learning Python - Mark Lutz > Think C Spy > A byte of Python > Non-Programmers Tutorial For Python > etc. > But I have not got anything from them. I am feeling that they are > superficial and do not touch real life problems. Also, not enough > examples are provided which can help newbies like me. > > Can anyone help me, it is pretty pretty frustating thing for last couple > of months? > > With warm regards, > -Payal You might find reading real code to be more useful than a tutorial: Fredrik Lundh's Guide to the Standard Library contains thousands of examples: http://effbot.org/zone/librarybook-index.htm PLEAC contains loads of examples to show how to do things: http://pleac.sourceforge.net/pleac_python/index.html It all depends what kind of learner you are: Learn by being taught (read the tutorials) Learn by doing (think of a project, start trying to do it, then ask here when you get stuck) Learn by example (read lots of examples of other people's code to see how they do it) I'm very much the kind of person who likes to learn to swim by jumping as far into the water as he can, then trying to get back to the side. It's amazing how well you can do something when you don't have any choice. ;-) Ed ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] failing to learn python
>> What kind of real life problems are you interested in? You might like > > I am a parttime sys admin so I want system admin problem which usually I > do through shell scripts like parsing logs, generating reports, greping > with regexes etc. My tutor is specifdically targetted at computer power users invcluding sys admins. It has examples of parsing files and creating reports (albeit very simple ones since its for beginners) and using regex. It also has side bars on topics like using WSH on Windows and other OS specific topics. There are also specific topics on using the OS and IPC comms etc being written. > The only thing I don't want is silly problems like generate fibonnacci > series, add numbers frm 0-n etc. non required silly stuff. None of the above are silly stuff, they are all needed in various real world computing and scientific problems. However I do agree that they are not what most beginners will be doing and I try to avoid any math type exercises. (I do use factorials as an example of recursion alongside another more practical example) I don't think my tutor was in your list so you might like to give it a go... Alan G Author of the learn to program web tutor http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] failing to learn python
Paypal- I do a lot of system admin type work with Python. If you'd like, drop me a line and let me know what you're interested in learning...perhaps I could help you work through a project or two. Greg Lindstrom [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] failing to learn python
> I am a parttime sys admin so I want system admin problem which usually I > do through shell scripts like parsing logs, generating reports, greping > with regexes etc. Hi Payal, You might also find David Mertz's book "Text Processing With Python" to be useful for you: http://gnosis.cx/TPiP/ I agree with the other recommendation on "Dive into Python": it provides a lot of good practical programming knowledge. http://diveintopython.org/ > The only thing I don't want is silly problems like generate fibonnacci > series, add numbers from 0-n etc. non required silly stuff. Just as a counterpoint: some of those silly things aren't useful in their own right, but they're finger exercises to help one really get mastery over the language. Recursion is one of those things that are core concepts, and most Python tutorials try to cover it by talking about factorials. It's very unfortunate that fibonacci numbers are one of the "classical" examples of recursion, since they are useless to most people. But don't discount recursion altogether. We can look at concrete example of recursion that might be more applicable. One common system administration question that pops up every once in a while is: "How do I do [some_action] to every file in my directory?" We can either know magically that os.walk() will do the hard work for us, or we can use a combination of os.listdir() and os.path.isdir(): # ### pseudocode def my_walk(some_action, dir_or_file): if os.path.isfile(dir_or_file): some_action(dir_or_file) else: for thing in os.listdir(dir_or_file): my_walk(some_action, thing) # in which there's a specific "base" case for handling regular files, and an "inductive" case for handling directories. Another example of this kind of processing involves things like XML or HTML processing. If we wanted to get all the anchor link elements in an HTML document, how would we do this? We again break it into two cases: one to handle anchor elements, and another to handle anything else: ## ## Pseudocode def get_anchors(element): if element is an anchor: return [element] else: anchors = [] for child in element.children: anchors.extend(get_anchors(child)) return anchors ## We're in a slightly different domain, but if we look at this with a critical eye, we should see that the code structure is similar to the directory-walking example. There's a case for handling really simple problems, and another case for handling slightly harder problems. That's the key insight you should have been getting. If the tutorials that you're reading haven't been delving into this, that means that those tutorials aren't doing a good job. The fact that factorial() looks like: def factorial(n): if n == 0: return 1 else: return n * factorial(n-1) is pretty darn worthless in itself. But the idea that we can break things down into two categories (simple cases, slightly complex cases) and handle them in some structured way is a valuable concept. If you see something that's looks trivially un-useful when you're reading a tutorial, bring it up on this list. They're bound to be some kind of real application for it. *grin* And if you have any other questions, feel free to ask. Good luck! ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] failing to learn python
Payal Rathod wrote: >> What kind of real life problems are you interested in? You might like > > I am a parttime sys admin so I want system admin problem which usually I > do through shell scripts like parsing logs, generating reports, greping > with regexes etc. > The only thing I don't want is silly problems like generate fibonnacci > series, add numbers frm 0-n etc. non required silly stuff. Take a look at the Python Cookbook: http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python Dive into Python is not targeted at beginners but it is available online and does have real-world examples: http://diveintopython.org/ Kent ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] failing to learn python
Payal Rathod wrote: > On Mon, Apr 10, 2006 at 10:05:45AM -0400, Kent Johnson wrote: > >> You might like to look at "Python Programming for the absolute >> beginner". It is oriented to beginners and has many examples and >> exercises. >> > > I might not be able to afford another book, due to high dollar-to-ruppee > rate. > > >> What kind of real life problems are you interested in? You might like >> > > I am a parttime sys admin so I want system admin problem which usually I > do through shell scripts like parsing logs, generating reports, greping > with regexes etc. > The only thing I don't want is silly problems like generate fibonnacci > series, add numbers frm 0-n etc. non required silly stuff. When I hear the word "silly" I assume that you are comfortable with programming in Python, and do not need the examples that are useful to beginners, and want access to libraries of code for doing the tasks you described. So I suggest you look at Python's remarkable set of modules. In the docs you'll find Global Module Index. Start with re for regular expressions, glob & shutil for some file management, os for more file and process management. Some of these have some example code. Select ONE task of interest to you, make your best stab at writing a Python program using the module, then come back with the program and tell us how we can help you with it. If my assumption is inaccurate, and you do need help with the fundamentals of Python, then I suggest you tackle some of the assignments in the references you have *as a way of becoming comfortable with Python*, then tackle the modules I mentioned. Someone else on this list may point you to online learning resources that will meet your need for more information at low-to-no cost. HTH ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] failing to learn python
On Mon, Apr 10, 2006 at 10:05:45AM -0400, Kent Johnson wrote: > You might like to look at "Python Programming for the absolute > beginner". It is oriented to beginners and has many examples and > exercises. I might not be able to afford another book, due to high dollar-to-ruppee rate. > What kind of real life problems are you interested in? You might like I am a parttime sys admin so I want system admin problem which usually I do through shell scripts like parsing logs, generating reports, greping with regexes etc. The only thing I don't want is silly problems like generate fibonnacci series, add numbers frm 0-n etc. non required silly stuff. With warm regards, -Payal ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] failing to learn python
Payal Rathod wrote: > Hi, > I am trying to learn Python seriously for almost 2 months but have not > gotten far at all. Infact, it seems I have not understood even the basic > concepts itself. I know some shell, sed and awk programming. > I have tried reading Learning Python - Mark Lutz > Think C Spy > A byte of Python > Non-Programmers Tutorial For Python > etc. > But I have not got anything from them. I am feeling that they are > superficial and do not touch real life problems. Also, not enough > examples are provided which can help newbies like me. Hi Payal, Beginner's material teaches the basics of the language. These are the building blocks you will use to solve your problems. You need to understand the basics like loops, functions, lists and dictionaries to solve most real-world problems. When you have questions about basic concepts you can ask for help on this list. You might like to look at "Python Programming for the absolute beginner". It is oriented to beginners and has many examples and exercises. http://premierpressbooks.com/ptr_detail.cfm?group=Programming&subcat=Other%20Programming&isbn=1%2D59863%2D112%2D8 What kind of real life problems are you interested in? You might like "Beginning Python", it has several real-life projects. http://apress.com/book/bookDisplay.html?bID=10013 When you have questions about basic concepts you can ask for help on this list. We do best with questions that are very specific. ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
