RE: [U2] Unidata vs SQL
Could you be more specific on what your needs are with this? For example, is this for someone who knows SQL and wants to learn MultiValue; someone who knows MV and wants to learn SQL; someone who has learned database theory and wants to understand what MV has to do with relations; someone who has studied RDBMS's and wants to know the difference between U2 DBMS's and RDBMS's; someone who knows SQL and wants to know the MV Query language and DataBASIC? Are you looking more for theory or practice? Sorry to ask so many questions, but I'm currently researching this topic and starting to write a bit, but it might not be helpful to you depending on your requirements. I'm comparing the PICK (MultiValue) model to the XML data model, with the typical relational model being somewhat different. I also have some starter flash cards on MultiValue that might be helpful, so let us know what you are looking for. --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-u2- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave S Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 4:30 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: [U2] Unidata vs SQL Does anyone know where I can get a document that explains the key differences between the Unidata and SQL database ? __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] Passing parameters to a paragraph?
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-u2- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wendy Smoak Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 12:40 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: RE: [U2] Passing parameters to a paragraph? Well, it gets worse, I can't even get the paragraph (which uses DOWNLOAD) to run from a subroutine called from UOJ, much less pass it any parameters. (I need to pass in the filename.) I forgot that Datatel's internal transaction mechanism does not play nicely with UOJ. Out of curiousity, what is the issue (feel free to include Datatel jargon, if necessary)? Is it related to named common memory needing to be initialized, or do you already have a way to handle that? I took a break from UOJ efforts before trying I-descs that access named common, but I know there is a way to handle it, I just don't know what. This is related to my other post about XML... I was trying to pass a filename into a DOWNLOAD...FORMAT XML paragraph, but I don't think it's going to work because of the Datatel I-Descriptors. Can you give an example? Thanks. --dawn -- Wendy Smoak Applications Systems Analyst, Sr. Arizona State University, PA, IRM --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] Where Will the .NET Apps Live ?
In fact if you want a software application environment that includes unix in any flavor or has the option of including such -- linux, Mac OS X, or anything other than strictly Windows, you will not want to go .NET (at least not yet, and I suspect not for a long time). From my perspective, .NET is for those who have completely married themselves to Microsoft and plan to continue that marriage for better or worse. The unfortunate thing is that it is not (yet) really easy to write small-to-midsize quality applications using Java. That's why many have opted for scripting languages such as Perl, PHP, and Python for web-based solutions. When everything is from a single-vendor (Microsoft), you at least have (knock on wood) compatibility and Microsoft has also done well, from what I hear, in making nice development environments. The other side of the house (Java, for example) is not so well coordinated, but that is where I'm spending my efforts none-the-less. It will get there. --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-u2- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Don Kibbey Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 6:14 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: RE: [U2] Where Will the .NET Apps Live ? Java over .Net That just sounds wrong. If you have a server environment that's exclusively Unix, you will probably want to just stick with most anything except .Net. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brutzman, Bill Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 6:28 PM To: 'u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org' Subject: [U2] Where Will the .NET Apps Live ? Is there a way to save .Net exe app programs on a Unix box... such that Windows users can launch these programs directly? A lecturer indicated how to save exe apps on a Windows Server. For us here, the trouble with this scheme is that it turns 2-tier into 3-tier. That is, if the Win Server goes down, clients would be unable to run their ERP programs. This scenario seems to make a compelling case for Java over .NET. Comments are welcome. --Bill --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] Where Will the .NET Apps Live ?
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-u2- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of BobJ Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 1:27 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] Where Will the .NET Apps Live ? Ah, but what IS the environment? If it is a server and a bunch of PCs then it is client server no matter how you slice it. And if it is client server and it is not from Mars then the client desk top is very probably Windows. Today it is very likely that the client is a version of Windows, Linux or Mac OS, with the largest percentage squarely in Windows category. Yes, there are exceptions. But they are just that - exceptions. I don't find it that exceptional for someone to be running either Linux or Mac OS X on the desktop, but I work with higher ed and other not-exactly-manufacturing companies. I haven't seen a recent pie chart of desktop OS's -- can anyone point to a URL that has one you think is pretty accurate? I think that most of us who have an MV background in common write apps that are not shrink wrapped and not sold at CompUSA. And most of those apps, no matter the language, are very thin client and very thick server simply to avoid dealing with Windows and .NET in any detail. We might thicken the client a bit by using some of the better tools of Accuterm but even then we don't put much stress on the client. So you are right in the sense that using .NET to write the server software is probably not a good idea yet. But on the client side, assuming that we ever get to where we actually write client software, VB.NET has become a giant. And Visual Studio makes using that giant very easy once you are able to see the trees inside that vast and dense forest. There are some very real advantages to be gained by spending a little time learning the ins and outs of COM and the various DOMs. You can offer an application that looks and feels like it is part of Windows - and the guy or gal sitting at the keyboard gains comfort from that. When he or she is composing a quote or an order and comes to the part where a small story needs to be written and included then Word or Word Pad or Notes can be invoked and the results embedded in the transaction. When the thing is finished then it can be sent to a lot of places in a lot of different ways - including sending to USB printers even though the server doesn't support USB printers. But the learning curve is perhaps not steep but certainly not trivial. And for programmers like us (We? - tough grammar problem) indeed -- my father the linguist would tell you to go ahead and use us there who have been using the same tools for 20 years or more, learning anything new is tough. FWIW, I struggled with Java for a few months and actually got a few things running. Then I struggled with C# - which went a little quicker because now I almost understood OOP - and got a few things running. Now I'm struggling with VB in many different manifestations and finding power that I had no idea existed. Manifestations? VBS, VBA, VB, VB.NET - each is the same and each is different. The differences are partly in the DOM and partly in the product of the compile - or the lack of a compile in the cases of VBS and VBA. I opted to take one of these to master and the other to let you master ;-) My current detour has me teaching college-level programming (Java I and Java II, as well as OO patterns), so I should come out of that a bit more savvy. It still looks to me that the easier route is .NET, but that lockin to Microsoft is too big an obstacle from my perspective. The bottom line of all of this is that MS does seem to have a strategy and it does seem to be working. It has cost them a few dollars to eliminate some of the competition and it may cost them a few more dollars to eliminate some more of the competition. But there does not appear to be any power on earth that can stop them. So resistance is futile - we might as well learn .NET. I suppose that eventually they will become part of the Government and there will be a cabinet post - Secretary of Microsoft - with a budget larger than that of the Intelligence Community. At that point I will really be pleased that I opted for a different path. Merry Christmas to all. And meaning no disrespect to those who are not Christian. It will still be Christmas and they can still be merry :) Amen. --dawn BobJ - Original Message - From: Dawn M. Wolthuis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 12:43 PM Subject: RE: [U2] Where Will the .NET Apps Live ? In fact if you want a software application environment that includes unix in any flavor or has the option of including such -- linux, Mac OS X, or anything other than strictly Windows, you will not want to go .NET (at least not yet, and I suspect not for a long time). From my perspective, .NET
[U2] [U2UG] Calling all U2 Third-party vendors
To U2 Third-party vendors: While IBM has been working on web pages related to U2 VARs who have given permission for such, the U2 User Group is launching an effort to publicize U2 third-party vendors from our web pages. Think of this as the start of a Virtual Expo project for virtual vendor booths, free of charge to both vendors and prospective customers. As a start at this effort, we are requesting that any interested companies reply only to the sender of this e-mail ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) KEEPING THE SUBJECT LINE INCLUDED WITHIN YOUR RESPONDING SUBJECT LINE and indicate your interest by providing the following information between [ ] below: U2 Third Party Vendor Virtual Expo Registration- 1. Your name: [ ] (will not go on the web site) 2. Your job in the organization: [ ](also not for the web site) Note: if you are not certain whether you have the authority to agree to a link to your organization's web site, please also indicate the contact information for someone who would have that authority. For the Virtual Expo to be launched on u2ug.org: 3. Your organization's name as you would like to see it on the web page: [ ] --Please also attach a small graphic (for example, less than 100 x 150) if you would like a graphic, rather than simple text, to be the link to your site 4. The link that your organization's name or graphic should point to (e.g. www.thisandthat.com) [ ] 5. Place an X by one or more classifications for your product(s) or service(s): [ ] UI Tool [ ] Business Intelligence Tool (e.g. Reporting, Data Warehousing) [ ] Web-solution Tool [ ] Other Tools, Specify [ ] [ ] Vertical Business Application, what line of business? [ ] [ ] Training [ ] Consulting [ ] Educational Materials or Publications [ ] Open Source Products [ ] User Group [ ] Other, Explain [ ] Thank you for your interest in and support of this and other new initiatives of the U2 User Group. Dawn M. Wolthuis On behalf of the U2UG Board --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] Comparison Unidata and Universe
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-u2- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rosenberg Ben Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 12:49 PM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: [U2] Comparison Unidata and Universe -Original Message- From: Dawn M. Wolthuis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] I don't know if this is true, but it is the way I think of it -- UniData is more tied to the OS (which was UNIX from the start) and, therefore, a bit harder to work with the Windows/NT version. Sorry Dawn, you've got this backwards. UniData wasn't more UNIX-centric. (Unless you believed Unidata Inc.'s marketers.) UniData was more C-centric, and more OS-independent. UniData was running on both VMS and on UNIX back when UniVerse was running only on UNIX. Good point. I experienced some pain with Windows NT and that is likely where my misconception came from. UniData used (and still uses) standard libraries and standard system calls more than UniVerse does. You can see this on Unix by running a benchmark, where you'll see that UniData uses more system cpu time, while UniVerse uses more user cpu time. (Typically, UDT is 70% system and UV is 70% user.) When UniData was initially ported to VMS, it compiled and ran okay on the very first attempt. Of course, that was followed by a lot of VMS-specific features before the VMS version was ready for Prime-time, but the use of standard libraries made it easier to port UDT to a new host o/s platform. A contractor in Seattle who converted both UniVerse and UniData to NT said that UniData was easier. In addition to UniData using more standard C libraries, the other reason for this was that UniData was already running on VMS, which was in some ways a precursor to NT. Interesting ... was it Digital folks who went over to Microsoft or what is it that makes VMS a bit of a precursor to NT? UniVerse being slightly more of a VM (virtual machine) means that UniVerse needs more os-specific code for each host o/s platform under which that VM runs. Yes and my impression, although I'll believe I was wrong about it, was that because UniVerse is slightly more of a VM, it shields the user-developer more from the underlying OS. You can argue either way as to whether the additional platform-specific code in UniVerse leads to them being better integrated with the host o/s, but you can't argue with the fact that the architecture makes it slightly harder to port UniVerse to a new platform. But easier for the end-developer to port their code from one platform to another? Just wondering as that was my perception, which might be unfounded. Thanks --dawn --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] Comparison Unidata and Universe
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-u2- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rosenberg Ben Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 12:49 PM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: [U2] Comparison Unidata and Universe -Original Message- From: Dawn M. Wolthuis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] I don't know if this is true, but it is the way I think of it -- UniData is more tied to the OS (which was UNIX from the start) and, therefore, a bit harder to work with the Windows/NT version. Sorry Dawn, you've got this backwards. UniData wasn't more UNIX-centric. (Unless you believed Unidata Inc.'s marketers.) UniData was more C-centric, and more OS-independent. UniData was running on both VMS and on UNIX back when UniVerse was running only on UNIX. Good point. I experienced some pain with Windows NT and that is likely where my misconception came from. UniData used (and still uses) standard libraries and standard system calls more than UniVerse does. You can see this on Unix by running a benchmark, where you'll see that UniData uses more system cpu time, while UniVerse uses more user cpu time. (Typically, UDT is 70% system and UV is 70% user.) When UniData was initially ported to VMS, it compiled and ran okay on the very first attempt. Of course, that was followed by a lot of VMS-specific features before the VMS version was ready for Prime-time, but the use of standard libraries made it easier to port UDT to a new host o/s platform. A contractor in Seattle who converted both UniVerse and UniData to NT said that UniData was easier. In addition to UniData using more standard C libraries, the other reason for this was that UniData was already running on VMS, which was in some ways a precursor to NT. Interesting ... was it Digital folks who went over to Microsoft or what is it that makes VMS a bit of a precursor to NT? UniVerse being slightly more of a VM (virtual machine) means that UniVerse needs more os-specific code for each host o/s platform under which that VM runs. Yes and my impression, although I'll believe I was wrong about it, was that because UniVerse is slightly more of a VM, it shields the user-developer more from the underlying OS. You can argue either way as to whether the additional platform-specific code in UniVerse leads to them being better integrated with the host o/s, but you can't argue with the fact that the architecture makes it slightly harder to port UniVerse to a new platform. But easier for the end-developer to port their code from one platform to another? Just wondering as that was my perception, which might be unfounded. Thanks --dawn --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] Comparison Unidata and Universe
For a picture of the history that led to U2, see http://www.tincat-group.com/images/MVFamilyTreeColor.pdf If you are migrating from D3, I would recommend using UniVerse (even though I have more background with UniData). It is friendlier to Pick language features. You might be able to see from the Family Tree why it has more Pick in it than does UniData. In addition to their clean-room version of UniVerse, based on Prime Information, they bought a product that originated in the Pick thread of the languages and incorporated it into UniVerse. --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-u2- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Little Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 10:59 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [U2] Comparison Unidata and Universe Piers Angliss wrote: IMHO. They are very similar, with hundreds of differences - whether any are significant to you depends on where you're coming from and what you want to do. Where are you coming from and where do you wish to go We are running AIX/D3 right now. The question has been raised Do we want to stay with Pick or move to another database? Common sense, in this case, dictates stay on Pick. I have started looking into the different MV database products available: Revelation(?), jBASE, QM, and the U2 products. My initial question was: Why two different products? What's the difference? That's all really. (probably in your original post but I no longer have that, sorry) Yeah, I don't think *I* even have that anymore. 'Twas a while back by now :) -- Bob Little Graphik Dimensions, Ltd. High Point, NC --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] U2UG Meeting -- Ode to Clif
And I just can't believe that Chuck failed to mention the other highlight -- that along with the plaque, this doggerel made its way to the U2UG meeting: Ode to Clif Going back to before Microdata choked Devcom rewrote PICK, changing MD to VOC Perhaps you weren't around at that time So, I'll let you know -- then Clif headed to Pr1me info-prime you might not recall but from PI to U2, he's been through it all The industry changed as Prime Computer went dark Prompting UNIX migrations to UniData or VMark Clif was right there, dare I say as our mom Inviting us to the kitchen of oliver.com Then came a marriage or call it a deal Combining both of the U's with Ardent zeal Once again Clif provided us with a door For collaborating with others, 'cause that's what community's for The changes didn't end here, most certainly not Then came Informix, to thicken the plot Now what to do with the name of the list info-informix would get everyone, uh, pissed Clif knew his audience and kept the same name With info-ardent there would be no blame In case you haven't heard, this is not the last word Informix assets went to International Business Machines And I suspect you all know what that means The products of U2 Are now owned by Big Blue This could be the story, Clif could have retired But no one was there to keep us all wired Even if IBM could have There was no indication they would have It isn't just the industry where of U2 no one has heard Most IBM employees are still getting the word So Clif kept it going until he had a chance To say tag, you're it - then I suspect did a dance Thank goodness for Larry and also for Chuck Clif's baby lives on without charging a buck! Free as in freedom and free as in beer It's so touching a vision, I might shed a tear We owe it to Clif and we want him to know So we honor him here at this IBM show For your service to users of U1 2 We give you this plaque - it's the least we can do. --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
[U2] Assembling in Las Vegas this weekend ...
You won't believe the panel we have assembled for a U2 User Group meeting this coming Sunday in Las Vegas! OK, maybe it isn't the cast of Friends, but a super panel none-the-less. We will have: Susie Siegesmund Janet Oswald from IBM and THE Tony Gravagno along with Chuck Results Barouch. And in the Tim Russert seat of this panel will be yours truly as we discuss marketing related to U2 and to the MultiValue space in general. For more details, see www.u2ug.org We hope to see you there! --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. Take and give some delight today. --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2][UD] ODBC to UniData
Did you get your answer on this one? Some things have changed since I last did this, but you need unirpc to know about your account being accessible for odbc. I don't recall the specifics on this, but if you use VSG you can set up the account, otherwise there is an os command like uniadmin or something like that to give your data source a name so that when you come in on the odbc port with a data source name, it resolves that to your account path. Sorry I can't be more specific right now, but hope this helps and that the info isn't too dated. --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-u2- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chauhan, Savita Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 10:29 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [U2][UD] ODBC to UniData Hi All, Our network was down yesterday and couldn't check any mails. I read a lot of mails this morning. Thanks. The problem is that I cannot even 'connect' to my test database (/datatel/development/coldev) via ODBC, whereas I face no problems while connecting to the demo database. This is what my privilege files look like in the coldev account: Privilege access fields grant_opgrantor grantee PUBLIC*__V__VIEW SELECT 0 SYSTEM PUBLIC*privilege SELECT 0 SYSTEM 669*XCF_SAVITA_TEST OWNER I had deleted XCF_SAVITA_TEST but the entry still shows in the privilege file!! What other entry do I need to have in this file? If I don't add anything to this file, does it mean I cannot access any of the files? The permission on privilege is -rwxrwx---. On the unix prompt I can change to any directory I want to and on udt I can list / select any file I want to. But while trying to CONNECT to my database, it fails with You don't have permission to chdir to /datatel/development/coldev. Do I have to set some privileges on the database as a whole to be able to connect via ODBC? If yes, how? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of kafsat taiyus Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 2:25 AM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: [U2][UD] ODBC to UniData Savita, Log in to the server using the user name, you are using in your ODBC connection. Make sure you can change directory to /datatel/development/coldev if it is not already the home directory. Define unidata environment variable it is already not in the login script. Use udt command to go into unidata if the login script does not do it. Use command like SQL SELECT * FROM filename to make sure you have privilege etc. on the file. Then try ODBC from Access. Regards Kafsat -Original Message- From: Louis Guillaume [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 10 September 2004 4:19 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [U2][UD] ODBC to UniData Chauhan, Savita wrote: Hi, I have been trying to connect to our UniData server via ODBC. It connects fine to the demo database. But when I try to connect to my own test database from MS-Access or VSG, it gives an error message You don't have permissions to chdir to /datatel/development/coldev !! I create files using Envision API from Datatel in the DEVelopment account/database (/datatel/development/coldev). The entry in my ud_database file looks like this: DATABASE=demo UDTHOME=/usr/ud52 UDTACCT=/usr/ud52/demo TRACE_LEVEL=0 DATABASE=test_db UDTHOME=/usr/ud52 UDTACCT=/datatel/development/coldev TRACE_LEVEL=0 I have been fiddling around with so many things, changing permissions on files, changing the ownership, etc, as suggested by a few people; but nothing seems to work!!! Do I have to make some change/entry in some other file too for me to be able to access the DEV account/database via ODBC? Can someone tell me what am I doing wrong? Thanks. This should be in an FAQ somewhere... The user who runs unirpcd must be a member of the group that owns the database. I believe user permissions are ignored. For example... unirpcd is running as root. the database you're trying to access is /datatel/development/coldev the permissions on coldev are Owner:datatel Group:cdev Perms:770 root MUST be a member of the cdev group. Note the lack of access control unless you set up good views and privileges! Hope that helps, Louis -- Louis Guillaume Berklee College of Music --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ This email and any attachments are confidential and intended solely for the use of the person or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not disclose, store, copy or take any action in reliance on it or them. If you have received this message
[U2] Discount for U2UG members to IBM data management conference
If you have not seen the most recent IBM DB2 Information Management newsletter, it includes the opportunity I quote below. In case you missed previous information, if you are able to get to Las Vegas on Sunday, September 19, whether or not you are able to attend the conference, you are encouraged to attend an open 1/2 day session for U2UG members on Sunday afternoon. The agenda for that meeting includes a panel discussion on U2 marketing as well as marketing related to similar data models. I'll be filling the Tim Russell role, with panelists of Susie Siegesmund Janet Oswald from IBM plus the incomparable Tony Gravango and Chuck (Results) Barouch. The full agenda will be available soon. It will be at the Hilton from 1:00 - 5:00pm and it's bound to be a good and informative time! Cheers! --dawn Special Discount Available for U2UG Members Don't miss out on a special discounted conference fee for U2UG members for the 2004 IBM DB2 Information Management Conference in Las Vegas, NV, featuring 37 U2 sessions! When enrolling for the conference, once the U2 customer or Business Partner reaches the Enrollment Source, they would scroll down to U2UG Member and their fee will be $1695, giving them a $150 discount off of the current conference cost. There is no cost for joining U2UG. Simply go to http://www.u2ug.org http://www.ibm.com/isource/cgi-bin/goto?on=IMNL804J07 Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] [OT] SOA Acronym (was Sarbanes-Oxley)
Susan referred to it as SOX too -- I like that better (has a Dr. Suess ring to it) and I can go back to a single meaning for SOA. Thanks. --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-u2- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 9:01 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [U2] [OT] SOA Acronym (was Sarbanes-Oxley) 'I read something that had the acronym SOA in it and I thought the writer seemed to have no understanding of a Service-oriented Architecture at all!' We refer to is as SOX and next week we are sending a group over to the UK to train them on our 'new' approval and tracking systems. Vance Alspach J L Industrial Supply --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] .Net Provider for Unidata or Universe
Not ALL marketing costs dollars. For example, how many dollars are pumped into Visage marketing on cdp and the u2-users lists? Additionally, it really is amazing the fact that U2UG has a domain name (u2ug.org) and a web site and a host site for u2-users and a zero dollar budget. There are generous people within our midst. So, we'll be calling you then, K? smiles. --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-u2- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ross Ferris Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 10:55 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [U2] .Net Provider for Unidata or Universe Marketing costs $. Unless U2UG is going to start charging membership fees, I don't see where this will be possible In terms of Cache size, IIRC they quote figures around 4,000,000 seats, so I would think they are on a par with U2 Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage an Evolution in Software Development -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-u2- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dawn M. Wolthuis Sent: Friday, 18 June 2004 12:07 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [U2] .Net Provider for Unidata or Universe Cache' blankets the Java market with ads as well. But I'd be very curious how their market compares to the U2 market. There are other MUMPs implementations, but not as many as PICK. I don't know if they are bigger than U2 -- any guesses? I have no clue whether their marketing strategy is working to grow them significantly beyond their initial MUMPs base, but I'm definitely curious. In preparing the agenda for the Sept 19 meeting of the U2UG in Las Vegas (to which everyone is invited!) we are planning to have significant discussions about the topic of marketing U2 and the underlying database. Even if IBM does not do that type of marketing, potentially the U2UG could do some marketing in the future. Just a thought -- all ideas are welcome. Cheers! --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.707 / Virus Database: 463 - Release Date: 15/06/2004 --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] Unidata 4.1 ODBC
My memory is faded and I don't even use ODBC much with 6.0 anymore, so hopefully someone else is using it now and can help more, but I'll give it a start in case it helps. I think a significant performance improvement to UniData SQL was made between 4.1 and 5.1. I also recall that there was a minimum point release for it to work successfully for what we were doing (perhaps 63?). If there is absolutely no way to upgrade to a newer release of UniData (I wouldn't have guessed that 4.1 ran on a currently-supported version of AIX, but ...), then here are a few tips. You might not want to (or be able to) use VSG (visual schema generator) for that database, but there are colon prompt commands to do whatever vsg did and that is primarily what we used since vsg was a bit primitive. There were doc CD's back then and if no one at your site has one, you could see if there is anyone else around that does (perhaps IBM has some yet?). My memory has a few things that might help, but some of this could be very off. Setup ODBC on the server with a data source and install ODBC on the client. I don't recall what it was called on the server at the time, but there was an admin tool to set up the name of the ODBC data source on the server side (and that might also have done the vsg-like setup of the ODBC files in the account). There is also a daemon that needs to run. It is conceivable that you will not be able to use an XP client or something newer than the server software, but install the ODBC client software from the CD that came with 4.1 (unless at the time it required that you license the client ODBC drivers separately?) Then you need to first check to be sure that your account is ready for use. Check to be sure there is a privilege file LIST privilege If it doesn't exist, create an empty file with that name (my best guess) So that you can get to the first step and then LIST VOC WITH @ID LIKE _... ...SCHEMA... and make sure you have files that look something like _MASTER_SCHEMA (again, from memory). If not, then you have to set up this account as an ODBC schema on the server side, either with VSG or with the admin tool, I think (not sure). There are now two metadata repositories to be established -- one for SQL to work and a second for ODBC to work. Either take a copy of a dictionary or decide it is OK to pour new dict items into your current ones. Then take MYFILE, for example and do CONVERT.SQL MYFILE Accept all of its suggestions. If your dict is MY.FILE, then it will create MY_FILE, else it will add to MYFILE. You should now have an entry in the privilege file and you can execute SQL commands against the sql-ized dictionary. At the colon prompt you can either type SQL to get to the SQL prompt or type it in front of a SQL command like SQL SELECT COUNT(*) FROM MY_FILE; Or SQL SELECT * FROM MYFILE; Then the next command splits it out for ODBC schema and I'm blanking on the command (it might be something like ADD_SCHEMA but it might not)-- sorry but if you get VSG to work, then you don't need to do these steps at the colon prompt, although it is good to see the results of each separately to understand what the SQL metadata are and what is used for ODBC (ending in _DV) On the client side, use the microsoft ODBC admin to set up a data source using the UniData ODBC drivers, pointing to the data source name that you set up earlier on the server side. Make sure the daemon is running and include the right port number in the ODBC data source setup. That's all there is too it ;-) Now try it in Excel. That was a bit pathetic and I apologize, but I figured it would prompt someone to correct me and then you would have the info you need. Good luck! --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-u2- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Daniel Burge Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 8:06 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [U2] Unidata 4.1 ODBC Hello, I am trying to find information on connecting to some databases on an AIX server running Unidata 4.1 via ODBC from a Windows environment. Does anyone have any pointers or a link to some information on it? Thanks in advance, Daniel --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] Companies going belly up converting from PICK/MV
There is a question about whether all databases are equal, just different, or whether a company can really save considerable dollars by choosing products based on one rather than another. While some folks think that the database product is irrelevant and it is the application that makes a difference, companies over the past couple of decades have thought that they must convert to Oracle and more recently to SQL Server or DB2. Because the anecdotal evidence is not there for such moves doing anything to save companies dollars (although they often do succeed in improving the resumes of those in IT), I started researching this area a bit more. I had thought that relational theory was truth and I no longer have such delusions. So, you could be correct that they are just business case studies of people making mistakes, but one of those mistakes might just be their technology choices. Cheers! --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-u2- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Donald Kibbey Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 11:23 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [U2] Companies going belly up converting from PICK/MV These all sound like companies that had issues because management were morons, and not because they used database X or Y. Don Kibbey Financial Systems Manager Finnegan, Henderson, Farabow, Garrett Dunner LLP --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.u2ug.org/listinfo/u2-users --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.u2ug.org/listinfo/u2-users
RE: [U2] Cost of Oracle vs PICK
But people keep making this seeming mistake. Does their company get so much better that they make up these costs in new revenue or what? --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-u2- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 3:04 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [U2] Cost of Oracle vs PICK In talking to companies that have converted to Oracle from PICK the cost seems to be running around five times the annual cost on their annual budget once the system has been installed. That does not include the many millions that can be spent in the conversion process. Larry Okeson VP Software Search Atlanta 800-949-5423 [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.u2ug.org/listinfo/u2-users --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.u2ug.org/listinfo/u2-users
RE: [U2] Companies going belly up converting from PICK/MV
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-u2- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Colquhoun Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 6:19 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [U2] Companies going belly up converting from PICK/MV At 02:59 AM 18/05/2004, Stevenson, Charles wrote: Read Things You Should Never Do, Part I, by Joel Spolsky, http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog69.html, for an example from Netscape. Search for rewrite in that site's archives for articulate apologies for favoring old code. Interestingly more recently: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/news/20030601.html They changed the name to firefox which you can download here: http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/ From using the above for the previous year or so it is markedly superior to ie(tabbed browsing, inbuilt search bar for google, ebay, dictionary lookups, popup blocking). Sadly it is likely only to ever have 5% market share. On the original point of dawn collecting material for future flame wars on comp.databases.theory: You got me wrong -- I'm not into flames, I'm just trying to learn why all database textbooks cling to theory related to SQL-based databases, teaching 1NF as if it were the only mathematically-valid approach. choosing only the failed conversions and ignoring the successful conversions will quickly be exposed. A much better tactic is to stay positive and sell the benefits of whatever solution you are pushing, this would involve showing how easy it is convert to and from mv systems to other existing systems. I'm really not in a selling mode, but a learning one. I'd like to better understand why companies are spending so much money on Oracle, for example, and whether they think they are getting a good ROI on their investment or simply don't know any better solution. A list of conversion failures might have nasty unintended consequences: it would show a future prospective mv customer once they chose a mv solution there was no way ever they would be able to leave. I recognize that could be a possible conclusion that one could draw. Since I'm not looking to sell, but to understand, then if that is really the case, then I want to better understand that too. I might look like I'm selling, but in this case I am really trying to understand why what I have learned related to databases in my reading and what I have seen with my eyes are so contradictory. Cheers! --dawn - Robert --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.u2ug.org/listinfo/u2-users --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.u2ug.org/listinfo/u2-users
[U2] Companies going belly up converting from PICK/MV
I've tried to search the archives for some old postings and have been unsuccessful, so sorry for asking for previously posted info. I'm looking for information related to companies that moved or attempted to move from applications based on MV to Oracle or other relational databases and went belly up in the process. Thanks for any anecdotes or info you can pass along or point me to. --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.u2ug.org/listinfo/u2-users
[U2] MV Fad
I'm just smilin' big and decided to pass this along in case it brings a smile to your face too. Others in the PICK world or MV arena have been chatting on comp.databases.theory for much longer than I have (Wol introduced me to it). But I've been on there for some months now, addressing the question of why we teach relational theory as if it were truth and yet non-1NF databases seem to yield greater flexibility and productivity when used in businesses. I've been asking a lot of questions and have learned quite a bit. I also invited others on comp.databases.pick to pipe up on a particular posting and several folks (most of them likely on this list too - thanks!) piped up. And then today ... Someone chimed in about the MV Fad. So, there you have it -- you are not working with an outdated database, using an outdated data model -- now it's a fad! There are dollars in fads -- perhaps it's time to update our resumes. Smiles. --dawn P.S. I would like to see non-relational data models (tree structures di-graphs in particular) really become more than a fad (the next thing after strict RELATIONAL) because they work well and should have more industry resources angled their way. So, there is more work to do. Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.u2ug.org/listinfo/u2-users
RE: [U2] Cutover!
Along with adding my three cheers for the PassTheBaton transition team for the u2-users list, I'd like to point out that Results, uh, Charles, uh, Chuck 'the volunteer' Barouch did a great job of facilitating this effort. Having seen many of the various project team e-mails fly past, I know that Clif, Larry, Kevin, Lee and others all jumped in as needed to make this happen, with Chuck as the very competent project leader. Best wishes to this new team of 4 moderators -- you guys have big shoes to fill (because, as I understand it, there was some other guy who did a great job as the moderator role for many years -- whatever happened to him?). Cheers! --dawn P.S. Thankfully, Clif Oliver is still on the U2UG Board so we know where to find him. Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Results Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 2:23 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [U2] Cutover! Everyone, The lists are migrated to the new servers. As head of the (now defunct) Transition Team, I'd like to thank everyone who helped make this possible, particularly the amazing Clif Oliver and ever patient Larry Hiscock. The team, backed by the U2UG board, has done a great job of making everything as smooth as possible. What could have been a task of Titanic proportions was instead made into an example of smooth sailing. I'd also like to thank everyone who is staying with the new lists. We are nothing without a community to serve. If you are experiencing any problems, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] This mail will reach Charles Barouch, Larry Hiscock, David Jordan, and Anthony Wol Youngman. -- Charles Barouch, Moderator --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.u2ug.org/listinfo/u2-users --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.u2ug.org/listinfo/u2-users
