Re: [U2] ViaDuct problem

2010-12-30 Thread Les Hewkin 
Hi, in the UK it used to be ANJEC that supported ViaDuct, there used to
be a nice man called Dick Chatter who knew it inside out, don't know if
he's still there or if they still support it but it could be worth an
Email. There web site is www.anjec.co.uk.  How do I know this? I worked
there for a short time...

Cheers

Les Sherlock Hewkin 
Senior Project Manager
Finance & HR Systems, I.T. Department
T 01604 592289, M 07917 856195
-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Oaks, Harold
Sent: 28 December 2010 19:47
To: U2 Users List
Subject: Re: [U2] ViaDuct problem

Tony, thanks for your insights.  Thanks to others too.

My end users are criminal justice folks, so indeed a pretty focused
audience.
Based on that and several other considerations, I'm going to take a hard
look at AccuTerm.

Thanks-
Harold

-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Tony Gravagno
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 10:10 AM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: Re: [U2] ViaDuct problem

It's sort of weird to see AccuTerm being investigated like it's a
newcomer to be compared to SecureCRT.  I hope this review will be
helpful, by someone who has used them all.

Back in the late 80's to early 90's I was a ViaDuct fan.  Around
1994 I was introduced to wIntegrate and found it more capable.
Around 1995 I was introduced to AccuTerm and I found a permanent home.
AccuTerm is quite simply (IMHO) the best terminal emulator in the MV
industry.  It has a ton of features that every MV developer can
appreciate.  Just get it and start using it and you'll see what I mean.
There is a helpful user forum, a lot of people who know it very well,
excellent product support with rapid code changes if required, and you
can get AccuTerm GUI training.

No matter what you do, you're going to have to get away from ViaDuct,
and if you go to anything else there is going to be a lot of conversion
effort.  This is the price that's paid for building so heavily into a
specific product.  For better or worse you'd do the same thing with
AccuTerm but if you're going to "get in deep" with any product, this is
a reasonable one.

While I recommend AccuTerm GUI for a Pick developer who doesn't like to
use mainstream tools, I personally don't think it's right business
approach for a diverse end-user base.  It's thick-client only and
connects via Telnet or SSH.  That is a fine solution for focused
audiences.  If you have any interest in an extranet or internet audience
where a browser is used, then you may want to invest your time in
mainstream tools.  Personally I use AccuTerm all the time to get into
all MV environments while I'm building browser GUI - these things are
not in conflict.  AccuTerm does have "AccuTerm for Internet Explorer"
which is a plugin to allow browser users to access your system, but when
people say they want a browser UI this isn't what they have in mind.
Try it for yourself.

I should also mention that the AnzioWin terminal emulator from Rasmussen
Software (anzio.com) seems to be a more "apples to apples" competitor
for SecureCRT.  I wish I could take all the mainstream features of
AnzioWin and mash them up with the MV-specific features of AccuTerm.  I
actually use both of these products, having used SecureCRT, Putty, and
other mainstream options in the past.

If you go to PickWiki you'll see other emulators documented, including
Winnix which deserves a fair evaluation:
http://www.pickwiki.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?TerminalEmulators

HTH
Tony Gravagno
Nebula Research and Development
TG@ remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com
Nebula R&D sells mv.NET worldwide
and provides related development services
remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com/blog Visit PickWiki.com! Contribute!
http://Twitter.com/TonyGravagno


> From: Harold.Oaks
>I've always considered AccuTerm the 'other' main player in the MV 
>terminal emulator market, and thought about going to them but 
>conversion of the programs to use their forms would be a lot of 
>workwheras the code to run Viaduct forms is embedding subroutine calls 
>in
>the Basic code. That is, they are quite different.   
>Do others have an opinion of AccuTerm versus SecureCRT?

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Re: [U2] ViaDuct problem

2010-12-28 Thread phil walker 
It does not actually use Microsoft Visual Basic if that is what you
meant

> -Original Message-
> From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-
> boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of fft2...@aol.com
> Sent: Wednesday, 29 December 2010 3:16 p.m.
> To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
> Subject: Re: [U2] ViaDuct problem
> 
> In a message dated 12/27/2010 3:57:03 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> harold.o...@clark.wa.gov writes:
> 
> 
> > Do others have an opinion of
> > AccuTerm versus SecureCRT? >>
> >
> 
> AccuTerm also uses Visual Basic and you can call scripts to run from
inside
> your Pick BASIC code.  Just as you're doing now.
> 
> W
> ___
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> 

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Re: [U2] ViaDuct problem

2010-12-28 Thread FFT2001 
In a message dated 12/27/2010 3:57:03 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
harold.o...@clark.wa.gov writes:


> Do others have an opinion of
> AccuTerm versus SecureCRT? >>
> 

AccuTerm also uses Visual Basic and you can call scripts to run from inside 
your Pick BASIC code.  Just as you're doing now.

W
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Re: [U2] ViaDuct problem

2010-12-28 Thread Oaks, Harold 
Tony, thanks for your insights.  Thanks to others too.

My end users are criminal justice folks, so indeed a pretty focused
audience.
Based on that and several other considerations, I'm going to take a hard
look at AccuTerm.

Thanks-
Harold

-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Tony Gravagno
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 10:10 AM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: Re: [U2] ViaDuct problem

It's sort of weird to see AccuTerm being investigated like it's a
newcomer to be compared to SecureCRT.  I hope this review will be
helpful, by someone who has used them all.

Back in the late 80's to early 90's I was a ViaDuct fan.  Around
1994 I was introduced to wIntegrate and found it more capable.
Around 1995 I was introduced to AccuTerm and I found a permanent home.
AccuTerm is quite simply (IMHO) the best terminal emulator in the MV
industry.  It has a ton of features that every MV developer can
appreciate.  Just get it and start using it and you'll see what I mean.
There is a helpful user forum, a lot of people who know it very well,
excellent product support with rapid code changes if required, and you
can get AccuTerm GUI training.

No matter what you do, you're going to have to get away from ViaDuct,
and if you go to anything else there is going to be a lot of conversion
effort.  This is the price that's paid for building so heavily into a
specific product.  For better or worse you'd do the same thing with
AccuTerm but if you're going to "get in deep" with any product, this is
a reasonable one.

While I recommend AccuTerm GUI for a Pick developer who doesn't like to
use mainstream tools, I personally don't think it's right business
approach for a diverse end-user base.  It's thick-client only and
connects via Telnet or SSH.  That is a fine solution for focused
audiences.  If you have any interest in an extranet or internet audience
where a browser is used, then you may want to invest your time in
mainstream tools.  Personally I use AccuTerm all the time to get into
all MV environments while I'm building browser GUI - these things are
not in conflict.  AccuTerm does have "AccuTerm for Internet Explorer"
which is a plugin to allow browser users to access your system, but when
people say they want a browser UI this isn't what they have in mind.
Try it for yourself.

I should also mention that the AnzioWin terminal emulator from Rasmussen
Software (anzio.com) seems to be a more "apples to apples" competitor
for SecureCRT.  I wish I could take all the mainstream features of
AnzioWin and mash them up with the MV-specific features of AccuTerm.  I
actually use both of these products, having used SecureCRT, Putty, and
other mainstream options in the past.

If you go to PickWiki you'll see other emulators documented, including
Winnix which deserves a fair evaluation:
http://www.pickwiki.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?TerminalEmulators

HTH
Tony Gravagno
Nebula Research and Development
TG@ remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com
Nebula R&D sells mv.NET worldwide
and provides related development services
remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com/blog Visit PickWiki.com! Contribute!
http://Twitter.com/TonyGravagno


> From: Harold.Oaks
>I've always considered AccuTerm the 'other' main player in the MV 
>terminal emulator market, and thought about going to them but 
>conversion of the programs to use their forms would be a lot of 
>workwheras the code to run Viaduct forms is embedding subroutine calls 
>in
>the Basic code. That is, they are quite different.   
>Do others have an opinion of AccuTerm versus SecureCRT?

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Re: [U2] ViaDuct problem

2010-12-28 Thread Tony Gravagno 
It's sort of weird to see AccuTerm being investigated like it's a
newcomer to be compared to SecureCRT.  I hope this review will be
helpful, by someone who has used them all.

Back in the late 80's to early 90's I was a ViaDuct fan.  Around
1994 I was introduced to wIntegrate and found it more capable.
Around 1995 I was introduced to AccuTerm and I found a permanent
home.  AccuTerm is quite simply (IMHO) the best terminal emulator
in the MV industry.  It has a ton of features that every MV
developer can appreciate.  Just get it and start using it and
you'll see what I mean.  There is a helpful user forum, a lot of
people who know it very well, excellent product support with
rapid code changes if required, and you can get AccuTerm GUI
training.

No matter what you do, you're going to have to get away from
ViaDuct, and if you go to anything else there is going to be a
lot of conversion effort.  This is the price that's paid for
building so heavily into a specific product.  For better or worse
you'd do the same thing with AccuTerm but if you're going to "get
in deep" with any product, this is a reasonable one.

While I recommend AccuTerm GUI for a Pick developer who doesn't
like to use mainstream tools, I personally don't think it's right
business approach for a diverse end-user base.  It's thick-client
only and connects via Telnet or SSH.  That is a fine solution for
focused audiences.  If you have any interest in an extranet or
internet audience where a browser is used, then you may want to
invest your time in mainstream tools.  Personally I use AccuTerm
all the time to get into all MV environments while I'm building
browser GUI - these things are not in conflict.  AccuTerm does
have "AccuTerm for Internet Explorer" which is a plugin to allow
browser users to access your system, but when people say they
want a browser UI this isn't what they have in mind.  Try it for
yourself.

I should also mention that the AnzioWin terminal emulator from
Rasmussen Software (anzio.com) seems to be a more "apples to
apples" competitor for SecureCRT.  I wish I could take all the
mainstream features of AnzioWin and mash them up with the
MV-specific features of AccuTerm.  I actually use both of these
products, having used SecureCRT, Putty, and other mainstream
options in the past.

If you go to PickWiki you'll see other emulators documented,
including Winnix which deserves a fair evaluation:
http://www.pickwiki.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?TerminalEmulators

HTH
Tony Gravagno
Nebula Research and Development
TG@ remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com
Nebula R&D sells mv.NET worldwide
and provides related development services
remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com/blog
Visit PickWiki.com! Contribute!
http://Twitter.com/TonyGravagno


> From: Harold.Oaks
>I've always considered AccuTerm the 'other' main 
>player in the MV terminal emulator market, and thought 
>about going to them but conversion of the programs to 
>use their forms would be a lot of workwheras the code 
>to run Viaduct forms is embedding subroutine calls in 
>the Basic code. That is, they are quite different.   
>Do others have an opinion of AccuTerm versus SecureCRT?

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Re: [U2] ViaDuct problem

2010-12-27 Thread Don Robinson 
Harold,

I see that Peter replied and he is the Accuterm guru so I'll give you a user's 
perspective.

The GUI designer was easier for me to learn than Visual Studio and mv.net. The 
GUI designer creates the MV Basic code to display the form and stub sections 
for 
each control (prompt) and event. You then need to send data to the form and get 
data from it. It supports grids and tabbed windows. The form is controlled from 
the MV Basic program so you don't need to know Windows basic. 


Since the round trip from the form to Basic and back takes a finite amount of 
time, if you do it wrong, it gets a little slow. As with any tool, it takes 
a few wrong turns to get it right.

I have never used Viaduct so I don't have any idea if the Accuterm subroutines 
are similar.

Contact me off list if you want.

Good luck,
 Don Robinson
donr_w...@yahoo.com





From: "Oaks, Harold" 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Mon, December 27, 2010 6:56:53 PM
Subject: Re: [U2] ViaDuct problem

Charlie-

Wow - sorry to hear that.  Thanks for the info!
I've always considered AccuTerm the 'other' main player in the MV
terminal emulator market, and thought about going to them but conversion
of the programs to use their forms would be a lot of workwheras the code
to run Viaduct forms is embedding subroutine calls in the Basic code.
That is, they are quite different.  Do others have an opinion of
AccuTerm versus SecureCRT?

Harold

-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Charlie Noah
Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 3:46 PM
To: U2 Users List
Subject: Re: [U2] ViaDuct problem

Harold,

I just Googled Via Systems and got this:

*Via Systems Inc. has ceased trading.*

If you would like information or have enquiries relating to either the
UniVision DBMS or ViaDuct Terminal Emulation software, please visit the
EDP Website by clicking here <http://www.edp.co.uk/index.html>.

It sounds like they are all but kaput. I suggest you bail ASAP. I know
it will be a pain, but it appears inevitable. May I suggest you take a
look at SecureCRT? It is a very robust, full-featured emulator, and the
folks at VanDyke are extremely competent and helpful.

Charlie Noah
Charles W. Noah Associates
cwn...@comcast.net

The views and opinions expressed herein are my own (Charlie Noah) and do
not necessarily reflect the views, positions or policies of any of my
former, current or future employers, employees, clients, friends,
enemies or anyone else who might take exception to them.


On 12-27-2010 5:26 PM, Oaks, Harold wrote:
> All:
>
> I wouldn't ask the list this question except Via Systems told me they 
> no longer have a programmer on staff so can't answer this question.
>
> Does anyone besides me use Viaduct and make use of programming with 
> Visual Data/Basic to manipulate Windows forms?
>
> I really like Viaduct and the forms capability, but there is one 
> problem that's driven me crazy for years: after so many calls to the 
> gui capability, a form will simply freeze when a control, for example 
> a button, is clicked.
>
> After some sleuthing I know it's that the VTW.RESPONSE routine is 
> looping thru code where it is waiting for "" to be returned from 
> the form. Normally this is returned, but when things go haywire it's 
> not returned and the loop spins forever.
>
> All is fixed ONLY by rebooting the PC.  Nothing else I've found works.
> This is obviously a real hinderance for the user community.
>
> Has anyone seen/solved this problem?
>
> Thanks-
> Harold D. Oaks
> Sr. Analyst/Programmer
> Office of the Budget and Information Systems Clark County, Washington
> ph: (360) 397-6121 x4132
> fax: (360) 397-2342
>
>
>
> This e-mail and related attachments and any response may be subject to
public disclosure under state law.
> ___
> U2-Users mailing list
> U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org
> http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
>
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Re: [U2] ViaDuct problem

2010-12-27 Thread PJS 
Hi All -

AccuTerm is alive and well and does have GUI forms. I do not believe that
SecureCRT has any GUI support. While AccuTerm's GUI is substantially
different than ViaDuct, you could probably build wrapper subroutines in
BASIC to emulate the ViaDuct functions. I only had a brief look at Visual
Data Basic when it was quite new, and at that time, the default programming
model was top-down, as opposed to event driven, which is AccuTerm's
programming model. The top-down model could be simulated by disabling all
input fields except the active one. AccuTerm GUI also has an active
developer group and support forum.

Thanks,

Peter Schellenbach

-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Oaks, Harold
Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 3:57 PM
To: U2 Users List
Subject: Re: [U2] ViaDuct problem

>Charlie-
>
>Wow - sorry to hear that.  Thanks for the info!
>I've always considered AccuTerm the 'other' main player in the MV
>terminal emulator market...


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Re: [U2] ViaDuct problem

2010-12-27 Thread Oaks, Harold 
Charlie-

Wow - sorry to hear that.  Thanks for the info!
I've always considered AccuTerm the 'other' main player in the MV
terminal emulator market, and thought about going to them but conversion
of the programs to use their forms would be a lot of workwheras the code
to run Viaduct forms is embedding subroutine calls in the Basic code.
That is, they are quite different.   Do others have an opinion of
AccuTerm versus SecureCRT?

Harold

-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Charlie Noah
Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 3:46 PM
To: U2 Users List
Subject: Re: [U2] ViaDuct problem

Harold,

I just Googled Via Systems and got this:

*Via Systems Inc. has ceased trading.*

If you would like information or have enquiries relating to either the
UniVision DBMS or ViaDuct Terminal Emulation software, please visit the
EDP Website by clicking here <http://www.edp.co.uk/index.html>.

It sounds like they are all but kaput. I suggest you bail ASAP. I know
it will be a pain, but it appears inevitable. May I suggest you take a
look at SecureCRT? It is a very robust, full-featured emulator, and the
folks at VanDyke are extremely competent and helpful.

Charlie Noah
Charles W. Noah Associates
cwn...@comcast.net

The views and opinions expressed herein are my own (Charlie Noah) and do
not necessarily reflect the views, positions or policies of any of my
former, current or future employers, employees, clients, friends,
enemies or anyone else who might take exception to them.


On 12-27-2010 5:26 PM, Oaks, Harold wrote:
> All:
>
> I wouldn't ask the list this question except Via Systems told me they 
> no longer have a programmer on staff so can't answer this question.
>
> Does anyone besides me use Viaduct and make use of programming with 
> Visual Data/Basic to manipulate Windows forms?
>
> I really like Viaduct and the forms capability, but there is one 
> problem that's driven me crazy for years: after so many calls to the 
> gui capability, a form will simply freeze when a control, for example 
> a button, is clicked.
>
> After some sleuthing I know it's that the VTW.RESPONSE routine is 
> looping thru code where it is waiting for "" to be returned from 
> the form. Normally this is returned, but when things go haywire it's 
> not returned and the loop spins forever.
>
> All is fixed ONLY by rebooting the PC.  Nothing else I've found works.
> This is obviously a real hinderance for the user community.
>
> Has anyone seen/solved this problem?
>
> Thanks-
> Harold D. Oaks
> Sr. Analyst/Programmer
> Office of the Budget and Information Systems Clark County, Washington
> ph: (360) 397-6121 x4132
> fax: (360) 397-2342
>
>
>
> This e-mail and related attachments and any response may be subject to
public disclosure under state law.
> ___
> U2-Users mailing list
> U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org
> http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
>
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Re: [U2] ViaDuct problem

2010-12-27 Thread Charlie Noah 
Followup: I dug a little further and ViaDuct was bought by EDP in 1993. 
Here is a link to their site: 
http://www.edp.co.uk/solutions/viaduct.htm. You might contact them. Of 
course, they might be planning to scrap it, too. The SecureCRT 
recommendation still stands.


Charlie Noah
Charles W. Noah Associates
cwn...@comcast.net

The views and opinions expressed herein are my own (Charlie Noah) and do 
not necessarily reflect the views, positions or policies of any of my 
former, current or future employers, employees, clients, friends, 
enemies or anyone else who might take exception to them.



On 12-27-2010 5:45 PM, Charlie Noah wrote:

Harold,

I just Googled Via Systems and got this:

*Via Systems Inc. has ceased trading.*

If you would like information or have enquiries relating to either the 
UniVision DBMS
or ViaDuct Terminal Emulation software, please visit the EDP Website 
by clicking here .


It sounds like they are all but kaput. I suggest you bail ASAP. I know 
it will be a pain, but it appears inevitable. May I suggest you take a 
look at SecureCRT? It is a very robust, full-featured emulator, and 
the folks at VanDyke are extremely competent and helpful.


Charlie Noah
Charles W. Noah Associates
cwn...@comcast.net

The views and opinions expressed herein are my own (Charlie Noah) and 
do not necessarily reflect the views, positions or policies of any of 
my former, current or future employers, employees, clients, friends, 
enemies or anyone else who might take exception to them.



On 12-27-2010 5:26 PM, Oaks, Harold wrote:

All:

I wouldn't ask the list this question except Via Systems told me they no
longer have a programmer on staff so can't answer this question.

Does anyone besides me use Viaduct and make use of programming with
Visual Data/Basic to manipulate Windows forms?

I really like Viaduct and the forms capability, but there is one problem
that's driven me crazy for years: after so many calls to the gui
capability, a form will simply freeze when a control, for example a
button, is clicked.

After some sleuthing I know it's that the VTW.RESPONSE routine is
looping thru code where it is waiting for "" to be returned from
the form. Normally this is returned, but when things go haywire it's not
returned and the loop spins forever.

All is fixed ONLY by rebooting the PC.  Nothing else I've found works.
This is obviously a real hinderance for the user community.

Has anyone seen/solved this problem?

Thanks-
Harold D. Oaks
Sr. Analyst/Programmer
Office of the Budget and Information Systems
Clark County, Washington
ph: (360) 397-6121 x4132
fax: (360) 397-2342



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Re: [U2] ViaDuct problem

2010-12-27 Thread Charlie Noah 

Harold,

I just Googled Via Systems and got this:

*Via Systems Inc. has ceased trading.*

If you would like information or have enquiries relating to either the 
UniVision DBMS
or ViaDuct Terminal Emulation software, please visit the EDP Website by 
clicking here .


It sounds like they are all but kaput. I suggest you bail ASAP. I know 
it will be a pain, but it appears inevitable. May I suggest you take a 
look at SecureCRT? It is a very robust, full-featured emulator, and the 
folks at VanDyke are extremely competent and helpful.


Charlie Noah
Charles W. Noah Associates
cwn...@comcast.net

The views and opinions expressed herein are my own (Charlie Noah) and do 
not necessarily reflect the views, positions or policies of any of my 
former, current or future employers, employees, clients, friends, 
enemies or anyone else who might take exception to them.



On 12-27-2010 5:26 PM, Oaks, Harold wrote:

All:

I wouldn't ask the list this question except Via Systems told me they no
longer have a programmer on staff so can't answer this question.

Does anyone besides me use Viaduct and make use of programming with
Visual Data/Basic to manipulate Windows forms?

I really like Viaduct and the forms capability, but there is one problem
that's driven me crazy for years: after so many calls to the gui
capability, a form will simply freeze when a control, for example a
button, is clicked.

After some sleuthing I know it's that the VTW.RESPONSE routine is
looping thru code where it is waiting for "" to be returned from
the form. Normally this is returned, but when things go haywire it's not
returned and the loop spins forever.

All is fixed ONLY by rebooting the PC.  Nothing else I've found works.
This is obviously a real hinderance for the user community.

Has anyone seen/solved this problem?

Thanks-
Harold D. Oaks
Sr. Analyst/Programmer
Office of the Budget and Information Systems
Clark County, Washington
ph: (360) 397-6121 x4132
fax: (360) 397-2342



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[U2] ViaDuct problem

2010-12-27 Thread Oaks, Harold 
All:

I wouldn't ask the list this question except Via Systems told me they no
longer have a programmer on staff so can't answer this question.

Does anyone besides me use Viaduct and make use of programming with
Visual Data/Basic to manipulate Windows forms?

I really like Viaduct and the forms capability, but there is one problem
that's driven me crazy for years: after so many calls to the gui
capability, a form will simply freeze when a control, for example a
button, is clicked.

After some sleuthing I know it's that the VTW.RESPONSE routine is
looping thru code where it is waiting for "" to be returned from
the form. Normally this is returned, but when things go haywire it's not
returned and the loop spins forever. 

All is fixed ONLY by rebooting the PC.  Nothing else I've found works.
This is obviously a real hinderance for the user community.

Has anyone seen/solved this problem?

Thanks-
Harold D. Oaks
Sr. Analyst/Programmer
Office of the Budget and Information Systems
Clark County, Washington 
ph: (360) 397-6121 x4132
fax: (360) 397-2342



This e-mail and related attachments and any response may be subject to public 
disclosure under state law.
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U2-Users mailing list
U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org
http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users