Re: [U2] "thoroughbred basic"
Brian Leach wrote: Stu, The problem is you obviously haven't *embraced* the new technology ! Flat files - Sooo yesterday. Now what you should have done is spent a few weeks designing and building an XML schema (preferably using an overpriced and complex 'now' tool like Visio or .Net), then exported the data from Mentor into that schema, and finally spent more weeks remapping the schema onto UniVerse... That would have been the modern approach. There you go. See how far forward technology has taken us. Brian "cynical - who me?" Leach -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stu Glancy Sent: 30 September 2004 13:02 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [U2] "thoroughbred basic" These recent comments show how old some of us are. Twenty years ago I was introduced to Prime and Armstrong Basic and Information. This was a migration and we did it with flat files in two 80+ hour work weeks. I recently did 2 migrations from Mentor to UniVerse where media compatibility was a problem so the answer was ftp flat files. After 29 years in this industry, the problems and answers always seem to be about the same, sometimes with a new technology twist. This email was checked on leaving Microgen for viruses, similar malicious code and inappropriate content by MessageLabs SkyScan. DISCLAIMER This email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the named recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information. In the event of any technical difficulty with this email, please contact the sender or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Microgen Information Management Solutions http://www.microgen.co.uk --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ You're right. I haven't *embraced* the new technology. I learn and use what I need to when I need to otherwise I wouldn't get anything done. There is too much out there to chase it all. I tried and gave up. It was too time and money consuming. In the mean time, old tricks seem to do a lot. After all, underneath it is just bytes. --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] "thoroughbred basic"
[AD] You might find Zeus useful in organizing and co-ordinating the migration of data. You can get the details at www.MtOlympus.us, or by e-mailing me off-list. [/AD] - Chuck "Zeus-ful" Barouch Ross Ferris wrote: Thoroughbred itself is simply the latest iteration of the old (8 Bit) OASIS product, which was one of the first REAL multi-user systems available for the old 8080 - in fact this is what many of original the Altos systems ran. It was "similar" to Pick, in that it had an integrated database, and the primary programming language was "basic", but beyond that . streets apart. Flat files are definitely the way to go --> tools were available WAY BACK WHEN to import/export, so you shouldn't have a problem (I had nearly forgotten about Rank, MAI/Basic 4 et al - wasn't even aware of the BP99 product, but then again there is LOT's of other stuff I don't know too :-) Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage an Evolution in Software Development --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] "thoroughbred basic"
Stu, The problem is you obviously haven't *embraced* the new technology ! Flat files - Sooo yesterday. Now what you should have done is spent a few weeks designing and building an XML schema (preferably using an overpriced and complex 'now' tool like Visio or .Net), then exported the data from Mentor into that schema, and finally spent more weeks remapping the schema onto UniVerse... That would have been the modern approach. There you go. See how far forward technology has taken us. Brian "cynical - who me?" Leach -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stu Glancy Sent: 30 September 2004 13:02 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [U2] "thoroughbred basic" These recent comments show how old some of us are. Twenty years ago I was introduced to Prime and Armstrong Basic and Information. This was a migration and we did it with flat files in two 80+ hour work weeks. I recently did 2 migrations from Mentor to UniVerse where media compatibility was a problem so the answer was ftp flat files. After 29 years in this industry, the problems and answers always seem to be about the same, sometimes with a new technology twist. This email was checked on leaving Microgen for viruses, similar malicious code and inappropriate content by MessageLabs SkyScan. DISCLAIMER This email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the named recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information. In the event of any technical difficulty with this email, please contact the sender or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Microgen Information Management Solutions http://www.microgen.co.uk --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] "thoroughbred basic"
Thoroughbred itself is simply the latest iteration of the old (8 Bit) OASIS product, which was one of the first REAL multi-user systems available for the old 8080 - in fact this is what many of original the Altos systems ran. It was "similar" to Pick, in that it had an integrated database, and the primary programming language was "basic", but beyond that . streets apart. Flat files are definitely the way to go --> tools were available WAY BACK WHEN to import/export, so you shouldn't have a problem (I had nearly forgotten about Rank, MAI/Basic 4 et al - wasn't even aware of the BP99 product, but then again there is LOT's of other stuff I don't know too :-) Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage an Evolution in Software Development >-Original Message- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-u2- >[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Richardson >Sent: Thursday, 30 September 2004 5:26 PM >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: [U2] "thoroughbred basic" > >I concur with Larry - not an easy migration at all. > >Secondly - Thanks Larry - BP99 from Chuck Armstrong! >Bill Coffing was the Prime rep out of greater Chicago area who >was Prime's main technical guru on converting various >Business BASIC applications to BP99. > >Regards >Scott Richardson > >- Original Message - >From: "Larry Hiscock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 2:11 AM >Subject: RE: [U2] "thoroughbred basic" > >%> All in all, I don't think there's a big market for Business Basic to U2 >> conversions. Especially since most of the modern Business Basics have >full >> GUI and OO capabilities built in, albeit implemented in slightly >different >> ways. >> >> On another note: someone earlier mentioned a Business Basic interpreter >> that ran on the Prime. The name of the product was BP99, from Chuck >> Armstrong (Armstrong System House). >> >> Larry Hiscock >> Western Computer Services >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Jordan >> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 9:23 PM >> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Subject: RE: [U2] "thoroughbred basic" >> >> Does anybody know the size of the thoroughbred basic market and does >anyone >> have a feel how big a job it would be to convert sites to U2 and/or SB+ >or >> one of the other tools out their. This could be an opportunity to grow >the >> U2 camp. >> >> David Jordan >> --- >> u2-users mailing list >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ >--- >u2-users mailing list >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ > > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.770 / Virus Database: 517 - Release Date: 27/09/2004 > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.770 / Virus Database: 517 - Release Date: 27/09/2004 --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] "thoroughbred basic"
These recent comments show how old some of us are. Twenty years ago I was introduced to Prime and Armstrong Basic and Information. This was a migration and we did it with flat files in two 80+ hour work weeks. I recently did 2 migrations from Mentor to UniVerse where media compatibility was a problem so the answer was ftp flat files. After 29 years in this industry, the problems and answers always seem to be about the same, sometimes with a new technology twist. Scott Richardson wrote: I concur with Larry - not an easy migration at all. Secondly - Thanks Larry - BP99 from Chuck Armstrong! Bill Coffing was the Prime rep out of greater Chicago area who was Prime's main technical guru on converting various Business BASIC applications to BP99. Regards Scott Richardson - Original Message - From: "Larry Hiscock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 2:11 AM Subject: RE: [U2] "thoroughbred basic" % All in all, I don't think there's a big market for Business Basic to U2 conversions. Especially since most of the modern Business Basics have full GUI and OO capabilities built in, albeit implemented in slightly different ways. On another note: someone earlier mentioned a Business Basic interpreter that ran on the Prime. The name of the product was BP99, from Chuck Armstrong (Armstrong System House). Larry Hiscock Western Computer Services --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] "thoroughbred basic"
I concur with Larry - not an easy migration at all. Secondly - Thanks Larry - BP99 from Chuck Armstrong! Bill Coffing was the Prime rep out of greater Chicago area who was Prime's main technical guru on converting various Business BASIC applications to BP99. Regards Scott Richardson - Original Message - From: "Larry Hiscock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 2:11 AM Subject: RE: [U2] "thoroughbred basic" % All in all, I don't think there's a big market for Business Basic to U2 > conversions. Especially since most of the modern Business Basics have full > GUI and OO capabilities built in, albeit implemented in slightly different > ways. > > On another note: someone earlier mentioned a Business Basic interpreter > that ran on the Prime. The name of the product was BP99, from Chuck > Armstrong (Armstrong System House). > > Larry Hiscock > Western Computer Services > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Jordan > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 9:23 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [U2] "thoroughbred basic" > > Does anybody know the size of the thoroughbred basic market and does anyone > have a feel how big a job it would be to convert sites to U2 and/or SB+ or > one of the other tools out their. This could be an opportunity to grow the > U2 camp. > > David Jordan > --- > u2-users mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] "thoroughbred basic"
Many thanks to all of you who came back on this which I realise was a tad "off topic", it looks as if (subject to those clever senior management chappies whims)I am about to lift a system written using Thoroughbred onto Universe 10.2 on AIX, hence the question to the group. I shall be dumping the programs and server but migrating the data (not quite sure how yet, probably down to delimited flat files and then write an upload). My thought was that if it was pick based it would have been easy, should have known better really :-) Bob __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] "thoroughbred basic"
I would guess that the Business Basic (of which Thoroughbred has only a fairly small share) is roughly equivalent to he MV market. Back in the early 80's, there was a Business Basic to Pick translator around. I don't clearly recall who developed it, but the name Jerry Burley (sp?) seems to stick in my mind. I worked on a system that had been converted from an older MAI Basic/4 system (MAI was the originator of the Business Basic language) to a Honeywell running Ultimate. The translator took what had been a fairly well written program and created some pretty awful code. For example, Business Basic does file I/O with a list of variables, whereby each field (attribute) is read into a separate variable. The translator converted reads and writes into a series of READV and WRITEV statements, one for each variable. Needless to say, performance was not real exciting. In fact, a report that used to take 4 hours to run on the old Basic/4 took 20 hours on the Honeywell. Of course, after I re-wrote it to take advantage of the MV data structures and intrinsic capabilities of the Ultimate system, it ran in 20 minutes. As I recall, this translator also had a (quite inefficient) B-Tree file manager, written entirely in Basic, since this was the days before alternate indices, etc. Quite a piece of work. All in all, I don't think there's a big market for Business Basic to U2 conversions. Especially since most of the modern Business Basics have full GUI and OO capabilities built in, albeit implemented in slightly different ways. On another note: someone earlier mentioned a Business Basic interpreter that ran on the Prime. The name of the product was BP99, from Chuck Armstrong (Armstrong System House). Larry Hiscock Western Computer Services -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Jordan Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 9:23 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [U2] "thoroughbred basic" Does anybody know the size of the thoroughbred basic market and does anyone have a feel how big a job it would be to convert sites to U2 and/or SB+ or one of the other tools out their. This could be an opportunity to grow the U2 camp. David Jordan --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] "thoroughbred basic"
Does anybody know the size of the thoroughbred basic market and does anyone have a feel how big a job it would be to convert sites to U2 and/or SB+ or one of the other tools out their. This could be an opportunity to grow the U2 camp. David Jordan U2UG - --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] "thoroughbred basic"
I ran into thoroughbred a few years ago. A client had a security system (in pick) called ABM that was very good, albeit green screen. A significant player in security alarm monitoring (DICE) had a thin-client system that is/was taking the industry by storm. It was thoroughbred. The screens looked like multiple colored character windows but utilized the function keys extensively (something that i think has eluded us). There was a nice window overlaying effect (which i also think is hard for mv, at least on earlier systems). I lost that client to DICE and thoroughbred. It appeared to be a good environment but I never got a chance to play with it. my 1 cent. - Original Message - From: "Bob Witney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "U2-Users (E-mail)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 11:27 AM Subject: [U2] "thoroughbred basic" > Does anyone know the dbms this runs on > > Is it PICK based ? > > > Bob > > > > > __ > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email > __ > --- > u2-users mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] "thoroughbred basic"
Business Basic is a slightly different world than that of PICK / U2 / et all. As Jeff mentioned, or should I say link-informed us, Thoroughbred Basic is one particular vendor in the "Business Basic" world. Google "Business Basic" and you'll get all kinds of stuff. There are LOTS of applications written in this environment, in use around the globe. Prime Computer used to re-host these applications, primarly targeting MAI-Basic-IV, (i..e Basic Four), who was owned at that time by the bastard, (Bennett LeBow??) who attempted to take over Prime, which eventually got taken over by someone else. Prime had a package that ran Business Basic on Primos, and then eventually used ThroroughBred Basic and BBX on Unix platforms as well. I know a very good Business Basic guy, (who worked with me at Prime in their Conversion & Reseller Suport Center), should you need one. He is in the greater Chicago area last I knew. And it looks like Larry has a good handle on this stuff as well... ;^)> Hope this helps! Regards, Scott - Original Message - From: "Bob Witney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "U2-Users (E-mail)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 11:27 AM Subject: [U2] "thoroughbred basic" > Does anyone know the dbms this runs on > > Is it PICK based ? > > > Bob > > > > > __ > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email > __ > --- > u2-users mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] "thoroughbred basic"
Thoroughbred Basic (http://www.tbred.com) is a dialect of Business Basic along the lines of MAI's Open Basic, Basis' BBx and Best's ProvideX. It's nothing like any of the Pick style Basics, although there are a few vague similarities. It is interpreted (no p-code) and file I/O is drastically different from the MV model. It has its own ISAM/B-Tree style file system, which is generally not readable outside of the Thoroughbred runtime environment, except through their ODBC/Dataserver environment. We support a number of Business Basic installations, including a few that are still on Thoroughbred (although we've migrated most of the former Thoroughbred installations to other platforms). Larry Hiscock Western Computer Services http://www.wcs-corp.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Witney Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 8:27 AM To: U2-Users (E-mail) Subject: [U2] "thoroughbred basic" Does anyone know the dbms this runs on Is it PICK based ? Bob __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] "thoroughbred basic"
Throughbred basic as far as I know isn't Pick. The last time I saw this was with a software package called Payplus. -- Donald Verhagen Application Development Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tandem Staffing Solutions, Inc. 1690 S Congress Avenue, Suite 210 Delray Beach, FL 33445 USA Voice Phone: 561.454.3592 Fax Phone: 561.454.3640 >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11:27:22 AM 09/29/2004 >>> Does anyone know the dbms this runs on Is it PICK based ? Bob __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
