RE: [U2] Redback Startup
We have been using Redback for over 4 years now. The learning curve is not that easy for Unidata/Universe programmers. The paradigm switch to coding in ASP/JavaScript/HTML is not that hard, but the debugging can be quite overwhelming. I would recommend at least two or three days training on Redback. We have found the learning curve to be at least 4 to 8 weeks. As an IBM VAR we offer on-site and local training for our customers and clients. Our IBM certified staff have the real world experience creating web software. We are not just trainers, but we are programmers that can teach. Additionally, we sell a tool, called XLr8, which uses Redback to create the code and therefore minimizes the amount of effort and knowledge needed. Our tool creates the ASP/JSP code to run your page along with the HTML/JavaScript automatically. We have a new enhancement for XLr8 that helps the SB+ programmers convert their applications to the web. You can go to our web site at http://www.u2logic.com/xlr8_GuidedTours.htm to see the product in action via some movies examples and data sheets. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Castilletti Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 6:40 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: [U2] Redback Startup What has been the general experience with Implementing/Using Redback? Does one need training on this or can it easily be picked by oneself. If training is needed were can I get it. Any help on this subject would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, __ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! http://my.yahoo.com --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] Redback Startup
John As with all things it depends on your existing knowledge! As a minimum you will need to know: Database programming (UniBasic or UniVerse Basic) HTML Active Server Pages VBScript You will also need to be confident designing and building web sites. RedBack is an enabling tool, not a site builder. That means you need all the attendant page design, validation and navigation skills (CSS, JavaScript and so forth). You also need to be able to write fast, efficient database code. If you have all of these areas of knowledge, RedBack will be straight forward. If not, the main thing is to find some training that covers as many of those bases as possible. RedBack is NOT difficult - none of these technologies are and you don't have to be an expert in any of them (except possibly the database) to write a good RedBack application - but it is having the mix of knowledge that is important. I would also find somebody else to look after the web server and internet connection side of things if this is for public access. That gives you someone else to shout atbackspacebackspaceresolve issues with. Regards, Brian --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] Redback Startup
Brian wrote: RedBack will be straight forward. If not, the main thing is to find some training that covers as many of those bases as possible. RedBack is NOT difficult - none of these technologies are and you don't have to be an expert in any of them The problem here is that IBM is behind a tool that happens to be the most difficult one of the breed to work with imho ! And possible the most expensive as well. Of course it may be the best at certain things. But those of us who want to get out business on the web don't necessarily want to spend three weeks in training and another nine months figuring out how to use it. Mostly we just want to start using it. So to my mind, that's a real problem. As a programmer, using ASP without Redback at all, I'm at least able to start getting interaction from U2 to and from the web and can learn as I go. And so far it hasn't cost me anything. Will Johnson Fast Forward --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] Redback Startup
I think Brian's comments were excellent and very accurate. Redback itself is relatively easy to use. I think he hit it right on the head with it's the myriad of other technologies that can make it seem daunting. Coming from a U2/Pick background, the major hurdles in my learning curve were clearly the web technologies. You need knowledge of html/javascript/vbscript/ASP to put out commercial grade browser based product. Now you have .Net or the Java world worlds as the latest technology options to use with Redback. Redback is a piece of cake if you know the web side. As you get into UOJ, the exact same learning curve applies. I think your level of productivity would be about the same with Redback. In fact, I'd say the curve you go through with UOJ is the same as that of Redback with .Net. Very similar stuff IMO. As you get to issues like scaling up or apps that support a larger number of users, Redback will shine and it works with all the web the technologies (ASP/ASP.Net/Java/JSP). Mike R. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 12:57 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: RE: [U2] Redback Startup The problem here is that IBM is behind a tool that happens to be the most difficult one of the breed to work with imho ! And possible the most expensive as well. Of course it may be the best at certain things. But those of us who want to get out business on the web don't necessarily want to spend three weeks in training and another nine months figuring out how to use it. Mostly we just want to start using it. So to my mind, that's a real problem. As a programmer, using ASP without Redback at all, I'm at least able to start getting interaction from U2 to and from the web and can learn as I go. And so far it hasn't cost me anything. Will Johnson Fast Forward --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] Redback Startup
Or you can separate out the data layer from the presentation layer. Programmers - Respsonsible for Redback object properties (fields) and methods (databasic programs) REAL Web Designers - Responsible for website presentation. Redback allows web designers to be web designers and programmers, dba's, etc. to stay in their own little data world. My 2cents, Thanks, -- Donald Verhagen Application Development Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tandem Staffing Solutions, Inc. 1690 S Congress Avenue, Suite 210 Delray Beach, FL 33445 USA Voice Phone: 561.454.3592 Fax Phone: 561.454.3640 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12:23:18 PM 02/18/2005 [Snipped..]' As a minimum you will need to know: Database programming (UniBasic or UniVerse Basic) HTML Active Server Pages VBScript You will also need to be confident designing and building web sites. RedBack is an enabling tool, not a site builder. That means you need all the attendant page design, validation and navigation skills (CSS, JavaScript and so forth). You also need to be able to write fast, efficient database code. --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
