Re: [ubuntu-art] Ubuntu panel background proposal
On Sun, 2006-10-09 at 09:04 +0200, PingunZ wrote: > That's most people agree that we just need a background image, no > tansparancy. Still, we are left with certain buttons and such not abiding by the background texture / colour. This is fundamentally more problematic than the actual change -- never mind the countless bug reports once it happens based on aesthetic decisions. Try it with your panel -- adjust the background to a simple texture or colour and you should see elements that fail to adjust. Sincerely, TJS signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Ubuntu panel background proposal
That's most people agree that we just need a background image, no tansparancy.Cheers.2006/9/10, Chuck Huber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: On Sun, 2006-09-10 at 02:04 +0200, Álvaro Medina Ballester wrote: 4.- As Jan and others told, transparent looks make less readable everything. Below I pasted a quick experiment to show the extremes of what we're up against if we decided to make the panels totally transparent. I think the team that Mark posted a link to will be able to sort out whether or not this can be done in a feasible and excellent manner. Chuck --ubuntu-art mailing listubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Ubuntu panel background proposal
On Sun, 2006-09-10 at 02:04 +0200, Álvaro Medina Ballester wrote: 4.- As Jan and others told, transparent looks make less readable everything. Below I pasted a quick experiment to show the extremes of what we're up against if we decided to make the panels totally transparent. I think the team that Mark posted a link to will be able to sort out whether or not this can be done in a feasible and excellent manner. Chuck -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Ubuntu panel background proposal
Álvaro Medina Ballester wrote: Hi!!! I'm agree with jmak and Jan, transparent panel makes less readable everything but, yes, first impression can be cool. But if we put it in Edgy because it's cool we're going very wrong. Let me explain some short reasons: 1.- First of all, the gnome panel, the 'start' Windows bar, the Finder bar and the KDE bar are the unique element that always (or almost always) remains in the desktop. You can open 10 apps, later close 5, open 2 and finally close all. The panel is always there. It can sound silly but it's real. The panel is an element that remains fixed and I think that it needs to transmit the idea that is something solid or something stable. Everything starts in the panel, you have application launchers, clock, etc. It's a very important piece of the desktop, why making it look like water or something flimsy? I think that the idea of making the panel solid (without transparent looks) can help the user to get a better experience and also enhaces the importance of a basic piece of gnome. 2.- As Petr told us, we have to keep the contrast between the panel and the background. How can we do it with a transparent panel?. Making it less transparent or giving a special texture like GlassPanel proposal. Solutions? It's difficult but making a good texture that ensures that all the text or icons are readable could be one. But I find that the greatest solution could be the less transparent solution. Now I'm looking the GlassPanel and if you have a dark background you cannot read the clock or the applications menu, so it should work only for light wallpapers. Again, less transparency is needed. 3.- This is the last point but is simillar to 1st one. Now I'm reading some pdf's and I want to read it fullscreen. Now imagine envice (or Nautilus or another application), fullscreen view, and gtk and metacity look is solid or not transparent but the panel is transparent or GlassPanel for example. First of all, if we are trying to integrate the panel and the human theme this is not the solution, is completely opposite. If the panel is transparent, the window border sould be transparent even so the workspace of the app would be the main element of the desktop, not the panel as it should be. That was the last one, the significance of the panel would be decreased with the transparent look. 4.- As Jan and others told, transparent looks make less readable everything. So, I think that the solution is give the panel a similar look to the gtk/metacity or compiz theme (of course not transparent). Yes, transparent is cool, but I'm sure that you will get tired of it in few days. It's cool but not as useful as not transparent look. Also my proposal is make the panel look solid or metal according to the 1st point I've explained before. So I would like to apologize because my english is quite bad and explaining this impressions is difficult for me. Sorry, I'm trying to improve!!! If you don't understand something please let me know!!! This was a very clear statement and well written - thank you! My only addition would be that I would definitely like to see the Panel look "special" and not just like any other application menu. I agree it needs to be SOLID, because it is always there, but it needs to look more attractive than just an app-menu. Mark -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Ubuntu panel background proposal
jmak wrote: I have the feeling that transparency will meet with the same fate as the flash intro. Now, it is cool and fun but it has plenty of drawbacks. Disregarding their resource hungriness, they diminish text legibility and in general make the desktop look more chaotic and disorganized as really is. Probably, during the course of time the effect will find its way into the general scheme of things, whatever it might turn out to be. Similarly to the flash that ultimately ended up as a web advertising tool. I agree - the hardest thing is going to be to ensure APPROPRIATE use of transparency, rather than slathering it all over the desktop like cheap perfume :-). That's why I would like use to build a team of experts in this area who can try various options and deliver the best: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2006-September/020535.html Mark -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Ubuntu panel background proposal
PingunZ wrote: Honestly I don't like that at all, sorry. The transparant background may look nice when no windows are open but when there are, it looks very cheap. What I prefer is a background image ( not-transparant ) and it should fit the GTK theme. I attached a screenshot of my panel. I don't want ubuntu to have a black panel, its just to show you what I mean with a nice panel that fits the GTK theme. http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/2464/paneldv4.png Yes, that's also very attractive, if we can find a way to make that more Human and less Aero :-) Mark -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Ubuntu panel background proposal
Hi!!! I'm agree with jmak and Jan, transparent panel makes less readable everything but, yes, first impression can be cool. But if we put it in Edgy because it's cool we're going very wrong. Let me explain some short reasons: 1.- First of all, the gnome panel, the 'start' Windows bar, the Finder bar and the KDE bar are the unique element that always (or almost always) remains in the desktop. You can open 10 apps, later close 5, open 2 and finally close all. The panel is always there. It can sound silly but it's real. The panel is an element that remains fixed and I think that it needs to transmit the idea that is something solid or something stable. Everything starts in the panel, you have application launchers, clock, etc. It's a very important piece of the desktop, why making it look like water or something flimsy? I think that the idea of making the panel solid (without transparent looks) can help the user to get a better experience and also enhaces the importance of a basic piece of gnome. 2.- As Petr told us, we have to keep the contrast between the panel and the background. How can we do it with a transparent panel?. Making it less transparent or giving a special texture like GlassPanel proposal. Solutions? It's difficult but making a good texture that ensures that all the text or icons are readable could be one. But I find that the greatest solution could be the less transparent solution. Now I'm looking the GlassPanel and if you have a dark background you cannot read the clock or the applications menu, so it should work only for light wallpapers. Again, less transparency is needed. 3.- This is the last point but is simillar to 1st one. Now I'm reading some pdf's and I want to read it fullscreen. Now imagine envice (or Nautilus or another application), fullscreen view, and gtk and metacity look is solid or not transparent but the panel is transparent or GlassPanel for example. First of all, if we are trying to integrate the panel and the human theme this is not the solution, is completely opposite. If the panel is transparent, the window border sould be transparent even so the workspace of the app would be the main element of the desktop, not the panel as it should be. That was the last one, the significance of the panel would be decreased with the transparent look. 4.- As Jan and others told, transparent looks make less readable everything.So, I think that the solution is give the panel a similar look to the gtk/metacity or compiz theme (of course not transparent). Yes, transparent is cool, but I'm sure that you will get tired of it in few days. It's cool but not as useful as not transparent look. Also my proposal is make the panel look solid or metal according to the 1st point I've explained before. So I would like to apologize because my english is quite bad and explaining this impressions is difficult for me. Sorry, I'm trying to improve!!! If you don't understand something please let me know!!! Sincerely, Álvaro. -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Ubuntu panel background proposal
Remember, about 7-8 years back, during the bubble, when flash became the coolest tool to build websites? Every self-respecting company, at that time, wanted a flash intro for its web site, with elaborate animations and music. When visiting a site, first you had to watch the movie, otherwise you weren't able entering the site. After a while this thing started irritating more and more people and as a result the 'skip intro' buttons started appearing as an escape route for those not in the mood of watching the movie. Today, one hardly sees any of those intros, probably because companies have realized that they are more of nuisances than attractions. I have the feeling that transparency will meet with the same fate as the flash intro. Now, it is cool and fun but it has plenty of drawbacks. Disregarding their resource hungriness, they diminish text legibility and in general make the desktop look more chaotic and disorganized as really is. Probably, during the course of time the effect will find its way into the general scheme of things, whatever it might turn out to be. Similarly to the flash that ultimately ended up as a web advertising tool. Anyhow, this is just my 2 c. J. Mak -- http://jozmak.googlepages.com/ -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Ubuntu panel background proposal
+1 Too, No transparancy, just a basic background image.like in the link I posted but with other colors.2006/9/9, Jan Claeys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Op za, 09-09-2006 te 18:13 +0200, schreef Petr Tomeš:> please keep the following issue on mind during exploring transparency > anywhere:>> Ensure that foreground and background color combinations provide> sufficient contrast+1Transparency almost always makes things less readable...--Jan Claeys --ubuntu-art mailing listubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.comhttps://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Ubuntu panel background proposal
Op za, 09-09-2006 te 18:13 +0200, schreef Petr Tomeš: > please keep the following issue on mind during exploring transparency > anywhere: > > Ensure that foreground and background color combinations provide > sufficient contrast +1 Transparency almost always makes things less readable... -- Jan Claeys -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Ubuntu panel background proposal
Hi, not sure if it has been discussed previously however would it be possible to have a tinted translucency for the panel? For example it could appear as a translucent brown thus providing good contrast as well as the desired effect. On 9/9/06, Chuck Huber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sat, 2006-09-09 at 18:13 +0200, Petr Tomeš wrote: > > Hello all, > > please keep the following issue on mind during exploring transparency > > anywhere: > > > > Ensure that foreground and background color combinations provide > > sufficient contrast > > https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ubuntulooks/+bug/37603 > > > > Thank you. > > > > Petr Tomeš > > Good point Petr, contrast would be difficult to control here. > > Maybe the panel applet could borrow some of the code that is used for > nautilus to help ensure contrast between foreground lettering and the > background. That plus shadows behind lettering to facilitate > inconsistencies might do it. Not going to be ready for Edgy though. > > -- > Chuck Huber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > -- > ubuntu-art mailing list > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art > -- JZ -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Ubuntu panel background proposal
On Sat, 2006-09-09 at 18:13 +0200, Petr Tomeš wrote: > Hello all, > please keep the following issue on mind during exploring transparency > anywhere: > > Ensure that foreground and background color combinations provide > sufficient contrast > https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ubuntulooks/+bug/37603 > > Thank you. > > Petr Tomeš Good point Petr, contrast would be difficult to control here. Maybe the panel applet could borrow some of the code that is used for nautilus to help ensure contrast between foreground lettering and the background. That plus shadows behind lettering to facilitate inconsistencies might do it. Not going to be ready for Edgy though. -- Chuck Huber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Ubuntu panel background proposal
Hello all, please keep the following issue on mind during exploring transparency anywhere: Ensure that foreground and background color combinations provide sufficient contrast https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ubuntulooks/+bug/37603 Thank you. Petr Tomeš 2006/9/9, jmak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > On 9/9/06, Troy James Sobotka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Sat, 2006-09-09 at 11:35 -0400, jmak wrote: > > > > > My only problem with the transparent panel is that it makes the > > > desktop look too dull, too monochromatic. > > > > Ideas jmak? The only thought about translucency > > is that it is a quick and easy adjustment with > > a good step towards a more greatly cohesive experience. > > > > > > It would be nice to dump some research here though, > > if anyone has any. > > > > > I would prefer using some kind of image as well; with a lighter tone > if it is possible, because the ubuntu brown is already kind of > darkish, so we need lightening up a bit the the desktop to break up > its monotony. > > J. Mak > -- > http://jozmak.googlepages.com/ > > -- > ubuntu-art mailing list > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art > -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Ubuntu panel background proposal
On 9/9/06, Troy James Sobotka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sat, 2006-09-09 at 11:35 -0400, jmak wrote: > > > My only problem with the transparent panel is that it makes the > > desktop look too dull, too monochromatic. > > Ideas jmak? The only thought about translucency > is that it is a quick and easy adjustment with > a good step towards a more greatly cohesive experience. > > > It would be nice to dump some research here though, > if anyone has any. > I would prefer using some kind of image as well; with a lighter tone if it is possible, because the ubuntu brown is already kind of darkish, so we need lightening up a bit the the desktop to break up its monotony. J. Mak -- http://jozmak.googlepages.com/ -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Ubuntu panel background proposal
On 9/9/06, Troy James Sobotka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sat, 2006-09-09 at 10:43 +0100, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > > > > I far prefer the "semi-transparent" panel idea that someone posted a > > little while ago. I think the Panel should have a very distinctive > > look, and not be Grey at all! That goes for the Panel menu items as > > well as the Panel itself. > > Translucent is lovely. My only concern while twiddling with > it here at home is that it is difficult to get _all_ > of the interface elements to abide by the rules. > > > It is a very simple tweak, and I think we can get it in for > Edgy assuming our workhorse Frank manages to push it to > bzr. > > Right now however, there is _one_ amateur looking element -- > certain buttons on the panel need to have the default translucency > adjusted to bring them more in line with the rest of the panel. > > I have attached a small JPG to illustrate the problem. > > Does anyone know how to adjust this value and in what > resource file it is? Dennis? ;) > My only problem with the transparent panel is that it makes the desktop look too dull, too monochromatic. J. Mak -- http://jozmak.googlepages.com/ -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Ubuntu panel background proposal
Honestly I don't like that at all, sorry.The transparant background may look nice when no windows are open but when there are, it looks very cheap.What I prefer is a background image ( not-transparant ) and it should fit the GTK theme. I attached a screenshot of my panel. I don't want ubuntu to have a black panel, its just to show you what I mean with a nice panel that fits the GTK theme. http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/2464/paneldv4.pngCheers2006/9/9, Troy James Sobotka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: On Sat, 2006-09-09 at 10:43 +0100, Mark Shuttleworth wrote:>> I far prefer the "semi-transparent" panel idea that someone posted a> little while ago. I think the Panel should have a very distinctive > look, and not be Grey at all! That goes for the Panel menu items as> well as the Panel itself.Translucent is lovely. My only concern while twiddling withit here at home is that it is difficult to get _all_ of the interface elements to abide by the rules.It is a very simple tweak, and I think we can get it in forEdgy assuming our workhorse Frank manages to push it tobzr.Right now however, there is _one_ amateur looking element -- certain buttons on the panel need to have the default translucencyadjusted to bring them more in line with the rest of the panel.I have attached a small JPG to illustrate the problem.Does anyone know how to adjust this value and in what resource file it is? Dennis? ;)Sincerely,TJS--ubuntu-art mailing listubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Ubuntu panel background proposal
On Sat, 2006-09-09 at 10:43 +0100, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > > I far prefer the "semi-transparent" panel idea that someone posted a > little while ago. I think the Panel should have a very distinctive > look, and not be Grey at all! That goes for the Panel menu items as > well as the Panel itself. Translucent is lovely. My only concern while twiddling with it here at home is that it is difficult to get _all_ of the interface elements to abide by the rules. It is a very simple tweak, and I think we can get it in for Edgy assuming our workhorse Frank manages to push it to bzr. Right now however, there is _one_ amateur looking element -- certain buttons on the panel need to have the default translucency adjusted to bring them more in line with the rest of the panel. I have attached a small JPG to illustrate the problem. Does anyone know how to adjust this value and in what resource file it is? Dennis? ;) Sincerely, TJS <> signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Ubuntu panel background proposal
I far prefer the "semi-transparent" panel idea that someone posted a little while ago. I think the Panel should have a very distinctive look, and not be Grey at all! That goes for the Panel menu items as well as the Panel itself. Mark -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Ubuntu panel background proposal
On Fri, 2006-08-09 at 15:50 +0200, Álvaro Medina Ballester wrote: > I was looking to my ubuntu panel on Dapper and I think that the gray > plain background doesn't have the same style that the human theme. I think we are all with you in agreement. Once the palette is settled down and published, I think Frank intends to slightly tweak the GTK / Metacity etc to bring more elements into alignment. I don't think he will go so far as to be using an image, but possibly a tonal alignment. It simply wasn't an option until all the final issues were resolved. Sincerely, TJS signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Ubuntu panel background proposal
Yea, I love the idea of a panel image :) I don't know what the evince combo box looks like, but if it looks similar to a Human button, then I like it :) On 9/8/06, Álvaro Medina Ballester <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi everyone! > > I was looking to my ubuntu panel on Dapper and I think that the gray plain > background doesn't have the same style that the human theme. At the same > time I was reading some pdf's on evince and I looked at the style of the > combo-box (zoom adjustment) and that style seemed a great background for the > panel. What do you think about it? If it's a good idea I can do it this > evening, but I prefer to wait a little discussion after doing it because now > I'm in exams period and I don't have a lot of time. So I hope you like that > idea because I find great! > > Sincerely, Álvaro. > > -- > ubuntu-art mailing list > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art > > > -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
[ubuntu-art] Ubuntu panel background proposal
Hi everyone!I was looking to my ubuntu panel on Dapper and I think that the gray plain background doesn't have the same style that the human theme. At the same time I was reading some pdf's on evince and I looked at the style of the combo-box (zoom adjustment) and that style seemed a great background for the panel. What do you think about it? If it's a good idea I can do it this evening, but I prefer to wait a little discussion after doing it because now I'm in exams period and I don't have a lot of time. So I hope you like that idea because I find great! Sincerely, Álvaro. -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
