Re: [ubuntu-art] Droid Fonts

2008-07-07 Thread Kido Mariano
On Mon, 2008-07-07 at 01:17 +0300, Jimmy Angelakos wrote:
 Salane Ashcraft wrote:
  On Sun, Jul 6, 2008 at 4:26 PM, Jimmy Angelakos [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Please allow me to speak frankly:
 
  I don't really see what all the fuss is about with that Droid font.
  
  Would you make a section in the Intrepid Ibex Fonts- Art Team wiki
  page then? Please provide a picture of what you are suggesting and
  some reasoning. Constructive criticism is important.
 
 Done :D
 
 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/Intrepid_Ibex_Font_-_Art_Team
 
 Jimmy
 
 

Your Droid screenshot is off. Try typing
sudo fc-cache -v
to update your font cache, then try again (and logoff and log on again
or something). It seems the desktop is using DejaVu Sans as fallback
font. I'll try to post another screenshot at the wiki to show how Droid
Sans looks on my computer.




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Re: [ubuntu-art] Droid Fonts

2008-07-07 Thread Jimmy Angelakos
Kido Mariano wrote:
 Your Droid screenshot is off. Try typing
 sudo fc-cache -v
 to update your font cache, then try again (and logoff and log on again
 or something). It seems the desktop is using DejaVu Sans as fallback
 font. I'll try to post another screenshot at the wiki to show how Droid
 Sans looks on my computer.

Fixed. Thank you for the tip. Needless to say new users should not have 
to do this for Droid to look ok on their screens.

Anyway the wiki has been updated.

Jimmy

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Droid Fonts

2008-07-07 Thread Kido Mariano
On Mon, 2008-07-07 at 16:25 +0300, Jimmy Angelakos wrote:
 Fixed. Thank you for the tip. Needless to say new users should not have 
 to do this for Droid to look ok on their screens.
 
No problem. :) I think it's GNOME not being able to auto-update the font
cache, not a problem with the Droid font.

 Anyway the wiki has been updated.
 
 Jimmy
 


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Re: [ubuntu-art] Droid Fonts

2008-07-06 Thread Ashton
Beautiful. Guess that's that. Onward and whatnot...


On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 11:52 PM, Salane Ashcraft [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Its very good- I actually replaced all of my fonts in windows, mac, and
 desktopbsd with them.


 On Sun, Jul 6, 2008 at 12:45 AM, Ashton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Oh good.



 On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 11:42 PM, Salane Ashcraft [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:

 I tried both out, and Droid was much much better.
 Salane


 On Sun, Jul 6, 2008 at 12:31 AM, Ashton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Ooops! Flubbed the send button...

 Then it went: No! Lib Sans is wrong! We should use a Humanist styled
 font!
 Then back to: Droid! Droid is the one!

 That was a full circle.

 And again, I don't understand the why's.


 On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 11:28 PM, Ashton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Gotta say...Droid is awfully similar to Liberation...I don't mind. But
 I don't have any clue where this is going. If you think one is not a good
 system font then how do you get to the other being ZOMG awesome? What is
 the reason for wanting to use it, other than it having Google Android ties
 and being something different?

 As far as I can tell it went: Yes! Liberation Sans is good!



 On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 9:21 PM, Cory K. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Here's a detailed post about the Droid font.

 http://troy-sobotka.blogspot.com/2008/07/why-droid-isnt-answer.html

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Droid Fonts

2008-07-06 Thread Kido Mariano
On Sat, 2008-07-05 at 23:21 -0400, Cory K. wrote:
 Here's a detailed post about the Droid font.
 
 http://troy-sobotka.blogspot.com/2008/07/why-droid-isnt-answer.html
 

About this one...

I'd agree with the first point. :] However, your UI font won't appear as
large paragraphs all the time. As phrases, the font looks nice. IMO it's
better than what we have now.

The rest of the points aren't quite related to Droid Sans being the UI
font. Droid Serif shouldn't be our main *print* serif font since it's
meant for screen use, too. It's quite easier to read, though, if that
matters. (I think Liberation Serif would be nice for this...)





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Re: [ubuntu-art] Droid Fonts

2008-07-06 Thread AA Boy
According to a comment on this blog
posthttp://www.boingboing.net/2007/11/16/droid-sans-mono-a-sw.html#comment-83140,
the droid fonts are, in fact, not free. So whether they look good or not is
beside the point, as they cannot be included due to licensing restrictions.

Smartboy

On Sun, Jul 6, 2008 at 4:01 AM, Kido Mariano [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Sat, 2008-07-05 at 23:21 -0400, Cory K. wrote:
  Here's a detailed post about the Droid font.
 
  http://troy-sobotka.blogspot.com/2008/07/why-droid-isnt-answer.html
 

 About this one...

 I'd agree with the first point. :] However, your UI font won't appear as
 large paragraphs all the time. As phrases, the font looks nice. IMO it's
 better than what we have now.

 The rest of the points aren't quite related to Droid Sans being the UI
 font. Droid Serif shouldn't be our main *print* serif font since it's
 meant for screen use, too. It's quite easier to read, though, if that
 matters. (I think Liberation Serif would be nice for this...)





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Re: [ubuntu-art] Droid Fonts

2008-07-06 Thread Cory K.
AA Boy wrote:
 According to a comment on this blog post
 http://www.boingboing.net/2007/11/16/droid-sans-mono-a-sw.html#comment-83140,
 the droid fonts are, in fact, not free. So whether they look good or
 not is beside the point, as they cannot be included due to licensing
 restrictions.

 Smartboy

*PLEASE* everyone stop top-posting. We've been over this time and time
and time and time again.

The license has been addressed already further back in this font chat.
(though spread across a couple of threads) They are gonna be under a
license that will free them up to use at some point apparently.

-Cory K.

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Droid Fonts

2008-07-06 Thread Salane Ashcraft
Hey guys - read way back in this discussion- they are to be released as open
source. Dont jsut read some old blog post and assume we cant use them.
Salane

How about we end this discussion? Ken I think is going to contact them to
make sure.

On Sun, Jul 6, 2008 at 10:57 AM, Cory K. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 AA Boy wrote:
  According to a comment on this blog post
  
 http://www.boingboing.net/2007/11/16/droid-sans-mono-a-sw.html#comment-83140
 ,
  the droid fonts are, in fact, not free. So whether they look good or
  not is beside the point, as they cannot be included due to licensing
  restrictions.
 
  Smartboy

 *PLEASE* everyone stop top-posting. We've been over this time and time
 and time and time again.

 The license has been addressed already further back in this font chat.
 (though spread across a couple of threads) They are gonna be under a
 license that will free them up to use at some point apparently.

 -Cory K.

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Droid Fonts

2008-07-06 Thread Kenneth Wimer
On Sunday 06 July 2008 17:25:03 Salane Ashcraft wrote:
 Hey guys - read way back in this discussion- they are to be released as
 open source. Dont jsut read some old blog post and assume we cant use them.
 Salane

 How about we end this discussion? Ken I think is going to contact them to
 make sure.

Please include your comments to an email after the part that you are refering 
to so that people can follow the discussion. ie, do not top-post :-)

Thanks,
Ken

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Droid Fonts

2008-07-06 Thread Salane Ashcraft
I figured out how to fix it. Thanks for letting me know!
Salane

On Sun, Jul 6, 2008 at 11:35 AM, Kenneth Wimer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Sunday 06 July 2008 17:25:03 Salane Ashcraft wrote:
  Hey guys - read way back in this discussion- they are to be released as
  open source. Dont jsut read some old blog post and assume we cant use them.
  Salane
 
  How about we end this discussion? Ken I think is going to contact them to
  make sure.

 Please include your comments to an email after the part that you are refering
 to so that people can follow the discussion. ie, do not top-post :-)

 Thanks,
 Ken

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Droid Fonts

2008-07-06 Thread Jimmy Angelakos
Please allow me to speak frankly:

I don't really see what all the fuss is about with that Droid font. 
Deja Vu Sans is a beautiful font, especially the Condensed version I 
use as my UI font. It supports many languages and looks quite modern 
without being very blocky as Troy calls it.

Droid has extreme usability problems on my machine here. It looks very 
condensed at the UI Font selection window, even more so than 
DejaVuSansCondensed. However when I select it, it appears as a very 
plain-looking uncondensed font (even plainer than FreeSans). When I 
fire up Firefox, I get the extremely condensed version again, at the 
same time when it looks uncondensed on my desktop.

What happened to the discussion about D.V.S.C. being the default font 
and why are we considering a font that *might* be open source one day?

Cheers,
Jimmy

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Droid Fonts

2008-07-06 Thread Salane Ashcraft
On Sun, Jul 6, 2008 at 4:26 PM, Jimmy Angelakos [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Please allow me to speak frankly:

 I don't really see what all the fuss is about with that Droid font.
 Deja Vu Sans is a beautiful font, especially the Condensed version I
 use as my UI font. It supports many languages and looks quite modern
 without being very blocky as Troy calls it.

 Droid has extreme usability problems on my machine here. It looks very
 condensed at the UI Font selection window, even more so than
 DejaVuSansCondensed. However when I select it, it appears as a very
 plain-looking uncondensed font (even plainer than FreeSans). When I
 fire up Firefox, I get the extremely condensed version again, at the
 same time when it looks uncondensed on my desktop.

 What happened to the discussion about D.V.S.C. being the default font
 and why are we considering a font that *might* be open source one day?

 Cheers,
 Jimmy


Would you make a section in the Intrepid Ibex Fonts- Art Team wiki
page then? Please provide a picture of what you are suggesting and
some reasoning. Constructive criticism is important.



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Re: [ubuntu-art] Droid Fonts

2008-07-06 Thread Jimmy Angelakos
Salane Ashcraft wrote:
 On Sun, Jul 6, 2008 at 4:26 PM, Jimmy Angelakos [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Please allow me to speak frankly:

 I don't really see what all the fuss is about with that Droid font.
 
 Would you make a section in the Intrepid Ibex Fonts- Art Team wiki
 page then? Please provide a picture of what you are suggesting and
 some reasoning. Constructive criticism is important.

Done :D

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/Intrepid_Ibex_Font_-_Art_Team

Jimmy


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Re: [ubuntu-art] Droid Fonts

2008-07-05 Thread Anton Kerezov
В 16:17 +0200 на 05.07.2008 (сб), Mario Viviani написа:
 Hi there!
 
 For sure Droid is the best font out there for Ubuntu. It is clean,
 professional, so good-looking. If we can have it on Open Source, I
 think Ubuntu have to use Droid Fonts as default font..
 
 Cheers
 
 Mario
 
 
 Il giorno ven, 04/07/2008 alle 14.00 -0400, Salane Ashcraft ha
 scritto:
  Hey guys-
  
  If everything works out with licensing, I say that we should make
  the Droid fonts default for all fonts system wide. They look
  awesome. I have replaced fonts system wide, including Firefox with
  Droid, and web pages look better, things are more readable, and
  actually, I think it looks better than the fonts on OS X. 
  
  Hopefully this goes well.
  
  Salane

I think that we should definitely use this fonts because they will make
the user feel the difference between old and new and because they save
more space on the screen and look more organised.

Anton


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Re: [ubuntu-art] Droid Fonts

2008-07-05 Thread Conn
On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 5:18 PM, Anton Kerezov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 I think that we should definitely use this fonts because they will make
 the user feel the difference between old and new and because they save
 more space on the screen and look more organised.


Ubuntu uses 10pt fonts by default, whereas Windows uses 9pt, for example.
Usually the first change I make is to reduce the system font sizes (and
hinting), to conserve more screen space (as my laptop is limited to
1024x768, and GNOME seems to have a lot of widget whitespace). Having the
default font size at 9pt would be an excellent change, with new or old
fonts.
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Droid Fonts

2008-07-05 Thread Bharat Varma
On Sun, Jul 6, 2008 at 1:39 AM, Conn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 5:18 PM, Anton Kerezov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 I think that we should definitely use this fonts because they will make
 the user feel the difference between old and new and because they save
 more space on the screen and look more organised.


 Ubuntu uses 10pt fonts by default, whereas Windows uses 9pt, for example.
 Usually the first change I make is to reduce the system font sizes (and
 hinting), to conserve more screen space (as my laptop is limited to
 1024x768, and GNOME seems to have a lot of widget whitespace). Having the
 default font size at 9pt would be an excellent change, with new or old
 fonts.


I second this. I have a 19 inch lcd with a 1280x1024 resolution. Though I
have enough space available on my desktop, shifting to a 9pt font size is
the first thing I do ( I used to have liberation sans and have recently
shifted to droid sans ). Perhaps someone with more experience in usability
than me can shed more light on this. May be we can put in a small poll on
ubuntu forums and find out the kind of font sizes people use. If majority of
users shift to 9pt fonts, may be we can use that as default.
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Droid Fonts

2008-07-05 Thread Klaus Bitto
Honestly, I don't understand why everyone loves small fonts. (Especially
designers, as it seems.)

When reading e.g. articles in firefox, the first I do is hit Ctrl+Num_Plus
several times to increase all font sizes.
I have good eyes, no glasses, but it's just much more comfortable to read
larger fonts.

In daily work, when I need to reach for an application's menu, I don't want
to concentrate too much, either.
Therefore, using smaller fonts for the sake of saving some disk space might
degrade the ubuntu user experience badly.

Regards,
Klaus
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Droid Fonts

2008-07-05 Thread Conn
On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 10:04 PM, Klaus Bitto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Honestly, I don't understand why everyone loves small fonts. (Especially
 designers, as it seems.)


I'm no designer, I'm a user. This has nothing to do with aesthetics. If you
have a monitor that offers high resolutions, or you don't have a lot of
exposure to Windows, then you probably don't realize how much larger fonts
can seem in Ubuntu (and GNOME doesn't help, as there is a lot of padding in
most themes).


 When reading e.g. articles in firefox, the first I do is hit Ctrl+Num_Plus
 several times to increase all font sizes.
 I have good eyes, no glasses, but it's just much more comfortable to read
 larger fonts.


As far as I know, changing GNOME's default font sizes will only affect
Firefox's interface (dialogs, toolbars, options, etc) - websites won't be
affected. You probably need to reduce your screen's resolution or font DPI.

In daily work, when I need to reach for an application's menu, I don't want
 to concentrate too much, either.
 Therefore, using smaller fonts for the sake of saving some disk space might
 degrade the ubuntu user experience badly.


What are you talking about? This has nothing to do with conserving disk
space. We're talking about having a sane default font size to conserve
screen real-estate (very important if your monitor can't go beyond 1024x768,
which is not as rare as you may imagine, even in 2008).

I also noticed that fonts seem to become even more enlarged when using
slight hinting.
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Droid Fonts

2008-07-05 Thread Klaus Bitto


 In daily work, when I need to reach for an application's menu, I don't want
 to concentrate too much, either.
 Therefore, using smaller fonts for the sake of saving some disk space
 might degrade the ubuntu user experience badly.


 What are you talking about? This has nothing to do with conserving disk
 space.


Yes, sorry. Of course I meant _screen_ space!
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Droid Fonts

2008-07-05 Thread Cory K.
Here's a detailed post about the Droid font.

http://troy-sobotka.blogspot.com/2008/07/why-droid-isnt-answer.html

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Droid Fonts

2008-07-05 Thread Ashton
Ooops! Flubbed the send button...

Then it went: No! Lib Sans is wrong! We should use a Humanist styled font!
Then back to: Droid! Droid is the one!

That was a full circle.

And again, I don't understand the why's.

On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 11:28 PM, Ashton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Gotta say...Droid is awfully similar to Liberation...I don't mind. But I
 don't have any clue where this is going. If you think one is not a good
 system font then how do you get to the other being ZOMG awesome? What is
 the reason for wanting to use it, other than it having Google Android ties
 and being something different?

 As far as I can tell it went: Yes! Liberation Sans is good!



 On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 9:21 PM, Cory K. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Here's a detailed post about the Droid font.

 http://troy-sobotka.blogspot.com/2008/07/why-droid-isnt-answer.html

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Droid Fonts

2008-07-05 Thread Salane Ashcraft
I tried both out, and Droid was much much better.
Salane

On Sun, Jul 6, 2008 at 12:31 AM, Ashton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Ooops! Flubbed the send button...

 Then it went: No! Lib Sans is wrong! We should use a Humanist styled font!
 Then back to: Droid! Droid is the one!

 That was a full circle.

 And again, I don't understand the why's.


 On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 11:28 PM, Ashton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Gotta say...Droid is awfully similar to Liberation...I don't mind. But I
 don't have any clue where this is going. If you think one is not a good
 system font then how do you get to the other being ZOMG awesome? What is
 the reason for wanting to use it, other than it having Google Android ties
 and being something different?

 As far as I can tell it went: Yes! Liberation Sans is good!



 On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 9:21 PM, Cory K. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Here's a detailed post about the Droid font.

 http://troy-sobotka.blogspot.com/2008/07/why-droid-isnt-answer.html

 --
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 ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Droid Fonts

2008-07-05 Thread Ashton
Oh good.


On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 11:42 PM, Salane Ashcraft [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I tried both out, and Droid was much much better.
 Salane


 On Sun, Jul 6, 2008 at 12:31 AM, Ashton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Ooops! Flubbed the send button...

 Then it went: No! Lib Sans is wrong! We should use a Humanist styled font!
 Then back to: Droid! Droid is the one!

 That was a full circle.

 And again, I don't understand the why's.


 On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 11:28 PM, Ashton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Gotta say...Droid is awfully similar to Liberation...I don't mind. But I
 don't have any clue where this is going. If you think one is not a good
 system font then how do you get to the other being ZOMG awesome? What is
 the reason for wanting to use it, other than it having Google Android ties
 and being something different?

 As far as I can tell it went: Yes! Liberation Sans is good!



 On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 9:21 PM, Cory K. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Here's a detailed post about the Droid font.

 http://troy-sobotka.blogspot.com/2008/07/why-droid-isnt-answer.html

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Droid Fonts

2008-07-05 Thread Salane Ashcraft
Its very good- I actually replaced all of my fonts in windows, mac, and
desktopbsd with them.

On Sun, Jul 6, 2008 at 12:45 AM, Ashton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Oh good.



 On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 11:42 PM, Salane Ashcraft [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:

 I tried both out, and Droid was much much better.
 Salane


 On Sun, Jul 6, 2008 at 12:31 AM, Ashton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Ooops! Flubbed the send button...

 Then it went: No! Lib Sans is wrong! We should use a Humanist styled
 font!
 Then back to: Droid! Droid is the one!

 That was a full circle.

 And again, I don't understand the why's.


 On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 11:28 PM, Ashton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Gotta say...Droid is awfully similar to Liberation...I don't mind. But I
 don't have any clue where this is going. If you think one is not a good
 system font then how do you get to the other being ZOMG awesome? What is
 the reason for wanting to use it, other than it having Google Android ties
 and being something different?

 As far as I can tell it went: Yes! Liberation Sans is good!



 On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 9:21 PM, Cory K. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Here's a detailed post about the Droid font.

 http://troy-sobotka.blogspot.com/2008/07/why-droid-isnt-answer.html

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 Simone de Beauvoir  - To catch a husband is an art; to hold him is a
 job.




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 Rita Rudner  - When I eventually met Mr. Right I had no idea that his
 first name was Always.
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 Paul Lynde  - I sang in the choir for years, even though my family
 belonged to another church.
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