Re: [Ubuntu-be] IRC meeting - Forum topic
Hi, Here are my answer to issues raised by Jean regarding my initiative. On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 11:59 PM, jean7491jean7...@free.fr wrote: 1. For now, a poll like suggested is voting about an idea without argumentation and without a clear view on the project. There has been a lot of argumentation for a forum in the mailing list. See, for instance, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-be/2009-August/005854.html, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-be/2009-August/005874.html and https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-be/2009-August/005857.html. The subject was also brought by Ivan Flo in July who installed a forum before removing it after negative feedbacks. The idea presented in the poll is my view and summary of previous discussions. My opinion is that discussions on this topics in the mailing list and the IRC meetings have reached a dead end. I want to capatilize on the recent interested of many of us on this topics to get some results before we switch to other things (for ubuntu-be or somewhere else). You wrote : We are talking about a forum to discuss our actions and activities. , but is this limitation included in the project we will vote for ? Yes indeed. The discussion is about a forum as a replacement for the mailing list to discuss and plan our actions and activities. I'm not talking about end-user helping and community announcements (meetings reports, events, etc.) or call for actions (volunteer needed, community feedback needed, etc.). This is my understanding of the current discussions and the various requests made by other community members. Before the poll, we need a comprehensive project on this topic. Even if it has not been directly requested, I feel like this is the idea that has been floating along for quite some time: If *they* want a forum, let *them* organize a comprehensive project. We can then cecide later based on this project. IMHO, this is a good way to work. But it is not the only one and it looks like it doesn't suit for this issue. Most people asking for a forum said they don't have a lot of time at hand. Requesting them to formalize their idea into a project while all they are asking is to get a practical issue out of their way to let them work on *real* issue is like asking them to shut up. I don't think it will work. I didn't happend the previous times and I don't see it happening now. 2. In my view, launching a debate about this poll at this moment is not the best thing, as the priority in the mailing-list should be the upcoming events we are organizing. Cluttering the list with more topics and debates will contribute to divert the attention of readers from important messages. This is part of the point. The mailing list is cluttered with too many discussions, making them hard to follow since, for some, it requires god-like email client skills and self-organization. Solving this issue may lower the noise on the mailing list, leaving more visibility for announcement and requests for help. My opinion is that the solution is not to wait for a better timing, they won't be any. Let fix it now. Before it went in background, leaving sad people behind and pop up in the mailing list again later. -- mongolito404, king of the mongolian people -- ubuntu-be mailing list / mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-be
Re: [Ubuntu-be] IRC meeting - Forum topic
Hi, The latest discussions about a forums have raised in discussions about attending meetings. Many people in favor of a forum have already said that they could not attend IRC meetings regardless of the day and time for various reason. If we these people in favor of a forum coming to an IRC meeting to discuss the question of having a meeting, there is a deadlock. The arguments in favor of a forum are scattered in many threads in the mailing list. So its hard to gather them and discuss them in a IRC Meeting, especially for those who don't feel like a forum is needed. This is a clear illustration of two issues highlighted by many pro-forum (and others) - discussions/information scattering in too many mailing list threads - near-impossibility to discuss important item before action/decision because of the need to be present at the IRC meetings To help solve the former, one big advantage of a forum is the ability for moderators to re-order messages in threads after they have posted. Which means that messages on a single subject scattered across many unrelated thread/topics can be gathered as a new one. For the later, we could probably come with a scheme to use either the mailinglist or a forum to discuss an agenda item before a meeting. At the meeting, attenders can then only acknowledge the vote/decision made in the forum or the mailing list. For many decision we could probably also use the poll feature of Launchpad, allowing members to vote for propositions. See for instance the poll I just created at https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-be/+poll/ubuntu-be-needs-a-forum On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 11:49 PM, Koen De Smetubuntu.k...@gmail.com wrote: Ikke 2009/9/2 Mike Morraye m...@morraye.be Where are all the people in favor for an Ubuntu-be Forum? -- mongolito404, king of the mongolian people -- ubuntu-be mailing list / mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-be
Re: [Ubuntu-be] IRC meeting - Forum topic
If support/help is needed in running the forum, I am a volunteer. There is no reason why a test period for running a forum could not be implemented. If the respons is lukewarm or even cold, we can simple close the forum project. If on the contrary the forum is a success then we have already al headstart. Anyhow, I would like the issue settled before the release of Karmic, as then once again new users will be welcomed in our community, and the hassle about a forum yes/no is not what they need to be confronted with and we will have other issues to deal with. Wamukota -- ubuntu-be mailing list / mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-be
Re: [Ubuntu-be] IRC meeting - Forum topic
On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 3:29 PM, Cedric Janssensdec...@gmail.com wrote: Just to be sure, are we talking about a forum to discuss about our actions and activities (just like we do here and on the wiki) or a forum providing help to users, (like forum.ubuntu-fr.org, ubuntuforum.org, and so on ?) We are talking about a forum to discuss our actions and activities. IMHO, user support should be done through the language LoCo teams (ubuntu-nl, ubuntu-de, ubuntu-fr) and ubuntuforums.org. But this is another discussion. On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 3:11 PM, Alain Baudrez a.baud...@gmail.com wrote: If support/help is needed in running the forum, I am a volunteer. There is no reason why a test period for running a forum could not be implemented. If the respons is lukewarm or even cold, we can simple close the forum project. If on the contrary the forum is a success then we have already al headstart. Indeed. And we don't have to run it ourself, ubuntuforums.org offer forum hosting for officiel LoCo Team (yes, we are an official LoCo Team). -- mongolito404, king of the mongolian people -- ubuntu-be mailing list / mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-be
Re: [Ubuntu-be] IRC meeting - Forum topic
Op donderdag 03-09-2009 om 12:57 uur [tijdzone +0200], schreef Pierre Buyle: Many people in favor of a forum have already said that they could not attend IRC meetings regardless of the day and time for various reason. If we these people in favor of a forum coming to an IRC meeting to discuss the question of having a meeting, there is a deadlock. Actually, I think there *were* people in favour of a forum at the meeting, but they didn't say anything. (And I didn't know during the meeting unfortunately...) -- Jan Claeys -- ubuntu-be mailing list / mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-be
Re: [Ubuntu-be] IRC meeting - Forum topic
Hi (again), I lightly reworked the poll. It will open in 12 hours and close on September the 9th at 8pm. The next meeting is scheduled the same day some at 9pm. My proposition is to acknowledge the poll results during this meeting. If the votes in favor of trying a forum, we should ask to have our own forum hosted by Ubuntu Forums (see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCreatingForum). By this time we should have at least on volunteer to moderate the forum (as required by ubuntuforums.org). Is this ok for everybody ? PS: If needed we can expand to poll until the 16th. PPS: Interested moderators are invited to consult the Ubuntu Forums Code of Conduct (http://ubuntuforums.org/index.php?page=policy) and agree to try their best to meet the exceptions in Section III. -- mongolito404 -- ubuntu-be mailing list / mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-be
Re: [Ubuntu-be] IRC meeting - Forum topic
I'd be happy to moderate the forum, as I want to contribute to the team a lot more than I do now, but have little time to attend dipro fairs and such. kindest regards, Martijn P.S: in case there are more volunteers than moderators needed, I propose the following: 1. Arrange an irc-meeting on a date/time all candidate moderators can attend. 2. Ask candidates in the meeting to briefly introduce themselves. 3. Ask candidates why they would make a good moderator. 4. Vote Comments welcome ;) On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 8:25 PM, Pierre Buyle mongolito404+ubuntu...@gmail.com mongolito404%2bubuntu...@gmail.comwrote: Hi (again), I lightly reworked the poll. It will open in 12 hours and close on September the 9th at 8pm. The next meeting is scheduled the same day some at 9pm. My proposition is to acknowledge the poll results during this meeting. If the votes in favor of trying a forum, we should ask to have our own forum hosted by Ubuntu Forums (see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCreatingForum). By this time we should have at least on volunteer to moderate the forum (as required by ubuntuforums.org). Is this ok for everybody ? PS: If needed we can expand to poll until the 16th. PPS: Interested moderators are invited to consult the Ubuntu Forums Code of Conduct (http://ubuntuforums.org/index.php?page=policy) and agree to try their best to meet the exceptions in Section III. -- mongolito404 -- ubuntu-be mailing list / mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-be -- ubuntu-be mailing list / mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-be
Re: [Ubuntu-be] IRC meeting - Forum topic
On Thu, 2009-09-03 at 20:25 +0200, Pierre Buyle wrote: Is this ok for everybody ? . -- mongolito404 That's OK for me ;) --- --- Mike Morraye m...@morraye.be http://www.mimor.be --- --- -- ubuntu-be mailing list / mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-be
Re: [Ubuntu-be] IRC meeting - Forum topic
Hi, Here my opinion on this topic: 1. For now, a poll like suggested is voting about an idea without argumentation and without a clear view on the project. You wrote : We are talking about a forum to discuss our actions and activities. , but is this limitation included in the project we will vote for ? I am not convince that a forum will ease the problem of communication : posting information about an event will only reach people going to this topic in the forum and not the potential readers in the mailing-list and posting 2 times (in the mailing-list and in the forum) is a lost of time. Before the poll, we need a comprehensive project on this topic. 2. In my view, launching a debate about this poll at this moment is not the best thing, as the priority in the mailing-list should be the upcoming events we are organizing. Cluttering the list with more topics and debates will contribute to divert the attention of readers from important messages. 3. But if finally it helps Ubuntu-be to be more efficient in its ambition The goal of the ubuntu-be.org-team is to motivate the growth of the ecosystem of the people, non-profit, and inter-governmental institutions using Ubuntu in and around Belgium., I'll agree with. Jean Pierre Buyle a écrit : Hi (again), I lightly reworked the poll. It will open in 12 hours and close on September the 9th at 8pm. The next meeting is scheduled the same day some at 9pm. My proposition is to acknowledge the poll results during this meeting. If the votes in favor of trying a forum, we should ask to have our own forum hosted by Ubuntu Forums (see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCreatingForum). By this time we should have at least on volunteer to moderate the forum (as required by ubuntuforums.org). Is this ok for everybody ? PS: If needed we can expand to poll until the 16th. PPS: Interested moderators are invited to consult the Ubuntu Forums Code of Conduct (http://ubuntuforums.org/index.php?page=policy) and agree to try their best to meet the exceptions in Section III. -- mongolito404 -- ubuntu-be mailing list / mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-be
[Ubuntu-be] IRC meeting - Forum topic
Where are all the people in favor for an Ubuntu-be Forum? -- ubuntu-be mailing list / mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-be
Re: [Ubuntu-be] IRC meeting - Forum topic
Ikke 2009/9/2 Mike Morraye m...@morraye.be Where are all the people in favor for an Ubuntu-be Forum? -- ubuntu-be mailing list / mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-be -- ubuntu-be mailing list / mailto:ubuntu-be@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-be
