Re: No "Lunch" break Re: Ubuntu Developer Summits Now Online and Every Three Months
On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 8:29 AM, Jono Bacon wrote: > Agreed. Unfortunately its too late to adjust this for the event > beginning tomorrow, but we will definitely include breaks at the next > UDS in May. I recommend for this one attendees coordinate breaks > themselves (e.g. for session leaders to propose a 10min break part way > through a session if the attendees need it). Scrap that, we managed to add a few breaks throughout the day to break things up. Hope this makes things a little easier. We can review our breaks for the next UDS in May and evaluate how well they work. Jono -- Jono Bacon Ubuntu Community Manager www.ubuntu.com / www.jonobacon.org www.identi.ca/jonobacon www.twitter.com/jonobacon -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: No "Lunch" break Re: Ubuntu Developer Summits Now Online and Every Three Months
On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 4:50 PM, Colin Watson wrote: > I'd been wondering that too. Contrary to popular belief, developers > surely aren't robots who can be continuously productive without > downtime, particularly in what may be stressful discussions involving > robust debate. Some kind of break in the middle would be wise so that > the discussions at the end of each day don't end up being pro forma > affairs that people are trying to rush through in order to rest. Agreed. Unfortunately its too late to adjust this for the event beginning tomorrow, but we will definitely include breaks at the next UDS in May. I recommend for this one attendees coordinate breaks themselves (e.g. for session leaders to propose a 10min break part way through a session if the attendees need it). Thanks, Jono -- Jono Bacon Ubuntu Community Manager www.ubuntu.com / www.jonobacon.org www.identi.ca/jonobacon www.twitter.com/jonobacon -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: No "Lunch" break Re: Ubuntu Developer Summits Now Online and Every Three Months
On Mon, Mar 04, 2013 at 12:29:17AM +, Dmitrijs Ledkovs wrote: > On 2 March 2013 13:43, Iain Lane wrote: > > On Fri, Mar 01, 2013 at 04:53:58PM -0500, Michael Hall wrote: > >> 14:00 - 20:00 UTC actually > > > > Right - it got updated for a third time after I posted. I think the > > canonical location is http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/ > > Looking at the scheduler, the session are all back to back with a > maximum 5 minute breaks between them. > Granted there is no logistics issues of people finding the rooms. > But it's still interesting that there is no bigger break in this 6 > hour block for lunch (dinner/breakfast/midnight snack). > Is this intentional? Cause it seems like the 5UTC plenary might be > ignored by many to go offline and grab something to eat. I'd been wondering that too. Contrary to popular belief, developers surely aren't robots who can be continuously productive without downtime, particularly in what may be stressful discussions involving robust debate. Some kind of break in the middle would be wise so that the discussions at the end of each day don't end up being pro forma affairs that people are trying to rush through in order to rest. -- Colin Watson [cjwat...@ubuntu.com] -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
No "Lunch" break Re: Ubuntu Developer Summits Now Online and Every Three Months
On 2 March 2013 13:43, Iain Lane wrote: > On Fri, Mar 01, 2013 at 04:53:58PM -0500, Michael Hall wrote: >> 14:00 - 20:00 UTC actually > > Right - it got updated for a third time after I posted. I think the > canonical location is http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/ Looking at the scheduler, the session are all back to back with a maximum 5 minute breaks between them. Granted there is no logistics issues of people finding the rooms. But it's still interesting that there is no bigger break in this 6 hour block for lunch (dinner/breakfast/midnight snack). Is this intentional? Cause it seems like the 5UTC plenary might be ignored by many to go offline and grab something to eat. Regards, Dmitrijs. -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Ubuntu Developer Summits Now Online and Every Three Months
On Fri, Mar 01, 2013 at 04:53:58PM -0500, Michael Hall wrote: > 14:00 - 20:00 UTC actually Right - it got updated for a third time after I posted. I think the canonical location is http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1303/ -- Iain Lane [ i...@orangesquash.org.uk ] Debian Developer [ la...@debian.org ] Ubuntu Developer [ la...@ubuntu.com ] signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Ubuntu Developer Summits Now Online and Every Three Months
Hello Allison, On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 16:54:39 -0800, Allison Randal wrote: > - There are a lot of people I really like, who I only see at UDS. I have > a very real sense of grief at "will I ever see so-and-so again?" It's > certainly not Canonical's job to pay for my social life. :) But, it's > important to me, enough to be willing to invest effort in making sure > that doesn't happen. I totally agree with what you said before but I just want to react about that: It's maybe a bit stupid but I'm following a course called 'Human Management' (ok, I was forced to follow it :) ) and it seems that these events which are not only focused to the job itself (like Team Building events ; so I guess like UDS too) are important for workers like what Canonical employees (that are doing jobs in team and which have many skills and responsibilities). It's important because it increases the productivity for months that follow the event (maybe not that much than other companies because I'm sure that most Canonical's employees love what they are doing) because it's useful to improve relationship between colleagues. I just hope that Canonical's employees and community members will not be too "frustrated" to no longer have this nice moments together. (But I guess people behind this decision know all of that and it was not easy to take such decisions, I understand) About the community, I think events like UDS are important for them too. I was at the UDS-M (but only one day and I regret that...) and it was really great. I met a lot of people, talk about things with Canonical's employees, etc. After this event, I wanted to do more work for Ubuntu. I tried to participate to other UDS online but it was really not the same... it's almost impossible for me to write in English as fast as people talk during the event (and as you can see my English is far to be perfect...). It was not easy to ask all my questions and I'm quite sure that people reacts differently if you talk to him AFK. In conclusion, I hope that I'm wrong about that and this new virtual UDS will be better than before :) Have a nice day, Matt signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Ubuntu Developer Summits Now Online and Every Three Months
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 14:00 - 20:00 UTC actually Michael Hall mhall...@ubuntu.com On 03/01/2013 12:05 PM, Iain Lane wrote: > Hi, > > On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 10:31:04AM -0800, Jono Bacon wrote: >> [?] we decided that we couldn?t wait until May to run this new >> format for UDS, so the first online UDS will be taking place next >> week from 5th - 6th March 2013 from 4pm UTC - 10pm UTC [?] > > FYI, for those of you who haven't noticed yet (since I didn't see > it elsewhere in mail), it seems from [0] that the times have > changed to 14:00 - 22:00 UTC. > > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJRMSN2AAoJEInUYcGJgfVyNVAP/3dBwTkglqSWOSEydaPeXCaz 8ep9kyqXuRl/ICqEwTjmsXztW/bj9hp72fZ94SML8SAoQOWIERmyTgZWSQtrGRRB sjbV2tH21dmNZ0vfUhAB+VG2p3YcnOtueoqBP7Rfda05ILbvLD5foBJNZMIUkQmr uu/fOBImET2djQo9M8UC4G4ueMrfkwbse8YSMR85vdZIjMg1ccq0+nr1upyVFozo 5B/V0u1eS5VCArCMlYheM5IQneM8S6g2XllRoISMPaO+o9Hf8abf/yjkxqF9uv0W MKjQPOlHvVxJTPT7K5x6PZNvQwfSWjxhCLWngaZVMgetxhxI2rXxwA2NWFGLl5j9 TGnTCiYH/tbg0bWkl08W8Mnr+K0+dTmsvT9fcecwgTXHuCg78mpgzeNKjgOFI5+B MEDHRVKpg6Dc3z+KaF3wS/NIAdwtamrAeHd5GojJWgfGupQQ70yC66mjrUror2Dh uVL5cZmNP0c5RkVFBc4+le1jkWXgNBZ52LDXg+xOcR/7LsBr9xxQhonvgjOy3gdp BzS9fgCiN2ONr7EjSU3HLn003pMwrvGuVESaHp7PN2fM3zOrw/X5ekDs/L/qYFcd /Va6y8UAwZALw8jlSgBsqfjyC7WwQ/CdYKdGZRFHloSLHUHzYZOTzdLcm20CRxJB ZglWGeZTfTak/qWg1ifK =xDdL -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Ubuntu Developer Summits Now Online and Every Three Months
Hi, On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 10:31:04AM -0800, Jono Bacon wrote: > […] we decided that we couldn’t wait until May to run this new > format for UDS, so the first online UDS will be taking place next week from > 5th - 6th March 2013 from 4pm UTC - 10pm UTC […] FYI, for those of you who haven't noticed yet (since I didn't see it elsewhere in mail), it seems from [0] that the times have changed to 14:00 - 22:00 UTC. -- Iain Lane [ i...@orangesquash.org.uk ] Debian Developer [ la...@debian.org ] Ubuntu Developer [ la...@ubuntu.com ] [0] http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2013/02/26/ubuntu-developer-summits-now-online-and-every-three-months/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Ubuntu Developer Summits Now Online and Every Three Months
On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 5:33 PM, Stefano Rivera wrote: >> and for community members who have been caught off-guard and aren't >> able to participate this time, they'll still be able to get the videos >> of the discussions online, and three months from now be in a position >> to participate on an even footing just like they would have otherwise. > > I don't know about you, but I have a huge backlog of conference talk > videos on my laptop that keep waiting for me to find time to watch them. > Most end up being deleted first. > Totally agreed as I have the same experience with some of the webminars I register and miss them as work and real life priorities take over and most end up not being watched. > But I guess things that I *really* want to see, I'll find time for. And > then be really irritated that I can't join the discussion because it's > already over... Yes the sense of being non real time does make one feel sad because if it was then one could join the discussion ask questions/doubts if any and get a real time response. > >> This isn't going to be a perfect, drop-in replacement for our previous >> approach to UDS; there are certainly some trade-offs. But I'm not convinced >> that participation from Asia is actually one of them. > >> Setting aside the fact that in this case there's very short notice, >> why would it be any easier to take off a week, hop on a plane, deal >> with jet lag and attend UDS in person, than to take off two days, have >> a couple of late nights, and attend sessions remotely? The latter >> option scales a lot better, takes /less/ time out of people's lives, >> and I'm sure it gets a lot fewer people sick with the UbuFlu. Agreed here, but some people around might find it difficult to understand as stefano said below and its very easy to get distracted when real life priorities take over (vs a single priority of attending and speaking at sessions whilst travelling for a summit or conference. > > In my past experience of remote participation, it's far too easy to get > distracted (other people around you don't really understand "I'm at a > conference" when you aren't physically there). Having any reasonable > discussion on IRC sucks, and you don't get the out-of-band discussion at > the bar later that night. Sometimes that bar discussion results in > another session being scheduled for the next day. > +1 here as I had the experience past UDS when members of the LoCo Council met during breaks on the 3rd day and the next day a session was scheduled just before the UDS closing party and planning for this cycle was carried out. > We don't get to meet the new community members in person. It's amazing > how much it changes one's relationship with someone, when you meet them > in person. I suspect this will have a big affect on the community over > time (but not so much in the short term). > Agreed again as face to face physical interaction adds value to the human side of the community and its an amazing feeling interacting with a diverse crowd of people by which the bonding and closeness increases. > I'm going to miss UDS. And it'll undoubtedly affect my contributions to > Ubuntu, although what the affects are will remain to be seen... Pretty similar here too. >> I know that Google Hangouts include various "low bandwidth" tweaks. Do you >> happen to have any experience with these, to know how well they work / what >> the real minimum bandwidth requirements are for participating? I suspect >> that, in practice, it's not so different from what's required in order to be >> able to participate effectively in other aspects of Ubuntu development, but >> possibly it would be worth testing this before next week. > > I have days where YouTube is unusable, but I have a full Debian+Ubuntu > mirror at home. The mirror can even be a week or two out of date without > significantly affecting my ability to contribute. > > So no, decent bandwidth has less effect on ability to participate than > you'd imagine. > Again a similar situation here as I have a full ubuntu local mirror at my desktop and it gets very helpful while contributing in a sort of decent bandwidth and will try out streaming with g+ again soon to see how it works. I love the idea of virtual UDS's as it has the potential of a wider outreach but I would also like to go with Allison's comment of holding a physical event once in a year similar to debconf or pycon and hold virtual UDS for those who cannot attend as I think it would strike a balance between both. Just a thought. Regards, -- Bhavani Shankar Ubuntu Developer | www.ubuntu.com https://launchpad.net/~bhavi -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Ubuntu Developer Summits Now Online and Every Three Months
> and for community members who have been caught off-guard and aren't > able to participate this time, they'll still be able to get the videos > of the discussions online, and three months from now be in a position > to participate on an even footing just like they would have otherwise. I don't know about you, but I have a huge backlog of conference talk videos on my laptop that keep waiting for me to find time to watch them. Most end up being deleted first. But I guess things that I *really* want to see, I'll find time for. And then be really irritated that I can't join the discussion because it's already over... > This isn't going to be a perfect, drop-in replacement for our previous > approach to UDS; there are certainly some trade-offs. But I'm not convinced > that participation from Asia is actually one of them. > Setting aside the fact that in this case there's very short notice, > why would it be any easier to take off a week, hop on a plane, deal > with jet lag and attend UDS in person, than to take off two days, have > a couple of late nights, and attend sessions remotely? The latter > option scales a lot better, takes /less/ time out of people's lives, > and I'm sure it gets a lot fewer people sick with the UbuFlu. I don't need to take time off from work for technical conferences (I guess I'm lucky there), but it also means for those two days, my concentration isn't on Ubuntu. It's on normal work stuff, because UDS won't really interfere with my work day (other than sleep deprivation). In my past experience of remote participation, it's far too easy to get distracted (other people around you don't really understand "I'm at a conference" when you aren't physically there). Having any reasonable discussion on IRC sucks, and you don't get the out-of-band discussion at the bar later that night. Sometimes that bar discussion results in another session being scheduled for the next day. We don't get to meet the new community members in person. It's amazing how much it changes one's relationship with someone, when you meet them in person. I suspect this will have a big affect on the community over time (but not so much in the short term). I'm going to miss UDS. And it'll undoubtedly affect my contributions to Ubuntu, although what the affects are will remain to be seen... Hope to see some of you at DebConf, and I guess I'd better get myself to EuroPython (IIRC the talk submission deadline is soon). > I know that Google Hangouts include various "low bandwidth" tweaks. Do you > happen to have any experience with these, to know how well they work / what > the real minimum bandwidth requirements are for participating? I suspect > that, in practice, it's not so different from what's required in order to be > able to participate effectively in other aspects of Ubuntu development, but > possibly it would be worth testing this before next week. I have days where YouTube is unusable, but I have a full Debian+Ubuntu mirror at home. The mirror can even be a week or two out of date without significantly affecting my ability to contribute. So no, decent bandwidth has less effect on ability to participate than you'd imagine. SR -- Stefano Rivera http://tumbleweed.org.za/ H: +27 21 461 1230 C: +27 72 419 8559 -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Ubuntu Developer Summits Now Online and Every Three Months
Hi Scott (2013.02.28_01:30:12_+0200) > Since Launchpad was open sourced there's been no requirement to use > proprietary web services to be involved in Ubuntu development Worse than that, proprietary local client. I guess I'll discover how good/bad G+ is next week... SR -- Stefano Rivera http://tumbleweed.org.za/ H: +27 21 461 1230 C: +27 72 419 8559 -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Ubuntu Developer Summits Now Online and Every Three Months
I agree with everything Jonathan has said and would like to add that
the proposal to use Google+ alone shows that this is not about
increasing participation. At UDS rooms can have anywhere from a few
people to a large crowd actively engaging at once.
Google+ is limited to those who use the service and better yet
hangouts are limited to 10 people at a time which means people will be
excluded from the conversation to some degree. I do not think the
assertion that this is to expand participation is valid but instead it
seems like a cost saving measure that will have a negative impact on
the community.
On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 4:54 PM, Jonathan Riddell wrote:
>
> I think this is a terrible shame. A virtual event will result in far
> less focused sessions. It will also remove the important community
> bonding aspect of UDS.
>
> An event with only a week's notice is pretty useless especially if it
> clashes with significant dates like feature freeze.
>
> Robbie blogged recently about removing non-LTS releases ("rolling
> release"). I wonder if this three month UDS frequency is part of
> that. Removing non-LTS releases will remove a lot of what makes
> Ubuntu a great community project, cadance has always been a hallmark
> of Ubuntu.
>
> These are probably good moves for Canonical's need to move to working
> with businesses and keeping its bank balance healthy but they're very
> bad moves for Ubuntu as a community project.
>
> Jonathan
>
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Re: Ubuntu Developer Summits Now Online and Every Three Months
On Wednesday, February 27, 2013 04:54:39 PM Allison Randal wrote:
> > Robbie blogged recently about removing non-LTS releases ("rolling
> > release"). I wonder if this three month UDS frequency is part of
> > that. Removing non-LTS releases will remove a lot of what makes
> > Ubuntu a great community project, cadance has always been a hallmark
> > of Ubuntu.
>
> This I'm not concerned about. We've been talking for years about the
> fact that server users are either very conservative and stick with the
> LTS releases, or in the cloud space and want the latest images "right
> now" not 6 months old. The non-LTS releases have never really been
> relevant server-wise.
True, but his post was about could server be a rolling release "Too". We are
left wondering about the rest. Some of the working in the open you mentioned
earlier in your mail would probably be handy here.
Scott K
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Re: Ubuntu Developer Summits Now Online and Every Three Months
On 02/26/2013 05:10 PM, Jonathan Riddell wrote:
> I think this is a terrible shame. A virtual event will result in far
> less focused sessions. It will also remove the important community
> bonding aspect of UDS.
I'm torn. On one hand, I firmly believe that it's important for the
future of Ubuntu (the distro) to have Canonical become a *profitable*
company. That's not an easy transformation, and succeeding in that will
require making cuts, even difficult cuts.
On the other hand, I'm really not sure what Ubuntu (distro or project)
will be without face-to-face UDS. It's just a big unknown, that hits me
on multiple levels:
- UDS is (so far) the only place where volunteers and employees mix in
high-bandwidth on fully equal footing. Working at Canonical is like UDS
all year-round, so it's hard to see that from the "inside". But after
being both "inside" and "outside", I noticed a sharp difference. A
virtual UDS might have the same effect, though remote sessions often
dull the impact of meetings like that. Hard to tell. Honestly, the best
integration I've ever had on a geographically distributed team was with
a daily phone call. So, there's a chance that going "virtual" will
encourage Canonical to be more open on a regular basis, instead of
saving it all up for UDS. There's also a chance that the iron curtain
will drop, and we'll never hear another peep out of Canonical. I don't
think the "iron curtain" scenario will play out, but it's something
they'll have to be very careful about.
- Canonical aside, UDS has served as a key point of community cohesion
over the years. Without UDS, there is a risk of "drift off" to such a
degree that there's really no "community" left to speak of. But then
there's also a chance that having Canonical step down from the driver
seat of events will open up whole new doors for community activity. If
UDS is really going away, it might be time for a community-organized
annual event to take its place, like PyCon, DebConf, ApacheCon, etc...
- UDS has been a very good connection point for Ubuntu and for
Canonical. It has provided a key "conversion experience" for other
projects to more actively support Ubuntu, and for other companies to
enter commercial relationships with Canonical. UDS is good for business.
It shows off the best and the brightest of Ubuntu in a way that just
doesn't happen anywhere else. It makes Ubuntu sexy. I don't know what
will replace that.
- There are a lot of people I really like, who I only see at UDS. I have
a very real sense of grief at "will I ever see so-and-so again?" It's
certainly not Canonical's job to pay for my social life. :) But, it's
important to me, enough to be willing to invest effort in making sure
that doesn't happen.
> Robbie blogged recently about removing non-LTS releases ("rolling
> release"). I wonder if this three month UDS frequency is part of
> that. Removing non-LTS releases will remove a lot of what makes
> Ubuntu a great community project, cadance has always been a hallmark
> of Ubuntu.
This I'm not concerned about. We've been talking for years about the
fact that server users are either very conservative and stick with the
LTS releases, or in the cloud space and want the latest images "right
now" not 6 months old. The non-LTS releases have never really been
relevant server-wise.
Allison
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Re: Ubuntu Developer Summits Now Online and Every Three Months
On Wednesday, February 27, 2013 03:13:03 PM Steve Langasek wrote: > > Thirdly, contributors (like myself) can be living in some places where > > internet connectivity would be not that great to support HD video > > streaming and can cause distortion when trying to speak. > > I know that Google Hangouts include various "low bandwidth" tweaks. Do you > happen to have any experience with these, to know how well they work / what > the real minimum bandwidth requirements are for participating? I suspect > that, in practice, it's not so different from what's required in order to be > able to participate effectively in other aspects of Ubuntu development, but > possibly it would be worth testing this before next week. Since Launchpad was open sourced there's been no requirement to use proprietary web services to be involved in Ubuntu development (and the fact that there was before that was a matter of significant controversy in the community). In that regard the requirement to use Google's infrastructure to participate is a fundamental change. Scott K -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Ubuntu Developer Summits Now Online and Every Three Months
On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 08:21:36AM +0100, Julien Lavergne wrote: > 2013/2/27 Jonathan Riddell : > > An event with only a week's notice is pretty useless especially if it > > clashes with significant dates like feature freeze. > It will be a problem for any community members. How are we suppose to > organize ourself on a so short notice ? I can't take 2 vacation days 1 > week before them. I organized myself to be free on May, not March. UDS > is supposed to be the most important event after release day, a period > when the project (or for example, any derivatives) organize itself. > How are we suppose to organize anything with only 1 week of > preparation ? I think it's important to understand that moving this first virtual UDS up is a response to the fact that, with the strong focus on the phone and tablet for the Canonical team over the next year, engineering planning is *already* happening that would normally be discussed at UDS before implementing. By moving UDS up, something that's obviously only possible to consider with UDS as a virtual event, we're enabling the community to be part of those discussions which otherwise might not happen publically (or at least wouldn't be systematically public and visible). So yeah, it's going to be hard for the community to participate to the same degree on such short notice, and that's not good. But bear in mind that the plan is to have another virtual UDS in three months, around the usual time of year. Even if this UDS winds up being completely dominated by topics driven by Canonical engineering, it's still better for Ubuntu to have those discussions in public instead of in private; and for community members who have been caught off-guard and aren't able to participate this time, they'll still be able to get the videos of the discussions online, and three months from now be in a position to participate on an even footing just like they would have otherwise. I think that makes having this vUDS preferable to the alternative. On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 06:49:14PM +0530, Bhavani Shankar R wrote: > On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 6:24 AM, Jonathan Riddell wrote: > > An event with only a week's notice is pretty useless especially if it > > clashes with significant dates like feature freeze. > +1 here too as it makes planning totally difficult for any contributor > (as gilir said and on a personal note I would take time off during May > and November to plan down on my views that I thought to say during the > uds. > Secondly, The timezone in which this uds is planned for just puts me > virtually out of participation on the sessions I intend to attend as > it will be at the stroke of midnight at the place where I live (and > holds good for most of the eastern parts I guess) and waking up coming > back from work would be difficult. This isn't going to be a perfect, drop-in replacement for our previous approach to UDS; there are certainly some trade-offs. But I'm not convinced that participation from Asia is actually one of them. Setting aside the fact that in this case there's very short notice, why would it be any easier to take off a week, hop on a plane, deal with jet lag and attend UDS in person, than to take off two days, have a couple of late nights, and attend sessions remotely? The latter option scales a lot better, takes /less/ time out of people's lives, and I'm sure it gets a lot fewer people sick with the UbuFlu. > Thirdly, contributors (like myself) can be living in some places where > internet connectivity would be not that great to support HD video > streaming and can cause distortion when trying to speak. I know that Google Hangouts include various "low bandwidth" tweaks. Do you happen to have any experience with these, to know how well they work / what the real minimum bandwidth requirements are for participating? I suspect that, in practice, it's not so different from what's required in order to be able to participate effectively in other aspects of Ubuntu development, but possibly it would be worth testing this before next week. Cheers, -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/ slanga...@ubuntu.com vor...@debian.org signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Ubuntu Developer Summits Now Online and Every Three Months
On 2/27/13 5:19 AM, Bhavani Shankar R wrote: On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 6:24 AM, Jonathan Riddell wrote: An event with only a week's notice is pretty useless especially if it clashes with significant dates like feature freeze. +1 here too as it makes planning totally difficult for any contributor (as gilir said and on a personal note I would take time off during May and November to plan down on my views that I thought to say during the uds. Secondly, The timezone in which this uds is planned for just puts me virtually out of participation on the sessions I intend to attend as it will be at the stroke of midnight at the place where I live (and holds good for most of the eastern parts I guess) and waking up coming back from work would be difficult. Thirdly, contributors (like myself) can be living in some places where internet connectivity would be not that great to support HD video streaming and can cause distortion when trying to speak. I empathize -- doing UDS remotely on the same days that you have real work is rough and I wouldn't recommend it. I realized how much I was putitng into Ubuntu when I found myself staying up till 3am to attend a UDS session a day before a major exam ;) Perhaps on the other side, in principle if you were prepared to take time off to come to UDS you may be able to take time off to adjust your personal clock and secure a reliable internet connection for remote participation. Finally, By this, the human touch to ubuntu community will drop further a bit as I think ubuntu community has been a great community for the social touch it provides (although doing an online UDS is beneficial from the commercial and the time perspective but can create a dent in the social aspect of the community). No argument here, although I think those of us sponsored to attend may not have appreciated how incredibly expensive the ordeal was. Thanks, Scott Ritchie -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Ubuntu Developer Summits Now Online and Every Three Months
On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 6:24 AM, Jonathan Riddell wrote: > An event with only a week's notice is pretty useless especially if it > clashes with significant dates like feature freeze. > +1 here too as it makes planning totally difficult for any contributor (as gilir said and on a personal note I would take time off during May and November to plan down on my views that I thought to say during the uds. Secondly, The timezone in which this uds is planned for just puts me virtually out of participation on the sessions I intend to attend as it will be at the stroke of midnight at the place where I live (and holds good for most of the eastern parts I guess) and waking up coming back from work would be difficult. Thirdly, contributors (like myself) can be living in some places where internet connectivity would be not that great to support HD video streaming and can cause distortion when trying to speak. Finally, By this, the human touch to ubuntu community will drop further a bit as I think ubuntu community has been a great community for the social touch it provides (although doing an online UDS is beneficial from the commercial and the time perspective but can create a dent in the social aspect of the community). Regards, -- Bhavani Shankar Ubuntu Developer | www.ubuntu.com https://launchpad.net/~bhavi -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Ubuntu Developer Summits Now Online and Every Three Months
2013/2/27 Jonathan Riddell : > An event with only a week's notice is pretty useless especially if it > clashes with significant dates like feature freeze. > It will be a problem for any community members. How are we suppose to organize ourself on a so short notice ? I can't take 2 vacation days 1 week before them. I organized myself to be free on May, not March. UDS is supposed to be the most important event after release day, a period when the project (or for example, any derivatives) organize itself. How are we suppose to organize anything with only 1 week of preparation ? Regards, Julien Lavergne -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Ubuntu Developer Summits Now Online and Every Three Months
I think this is a terrible shame. A virtual event will result in far
less focused sessions. It will also remove the important community
bonding aspect of UDS.
An event with only a week's notice is pretty useless especially if it
clashes with significant dates like feature freeze.
Robbie blogged recently about removing non-LTS releases ("rolling
release"). I wonder if this three month UDS frequency is part of
that. Removing non-LTS releases will remove a lot of what makes
Ubuntu a great community project, cadance has always been a hallmark
of Ubuntu.
These are probably good moves for Canonical's need to move to working
with businesses and keeping its bank balance healthy but they're very
bad moves for Ubuntu as a community project.
Jonathan
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Re: Ubuntu Developer Summits Now Online and Every Three Months
I think this is a terrible shame. A virtual event will result in far
less focused sessions. It will also remove the important community
bonding aspect of UDS.
An event with only a week's notice is pretty useless especially if it
clashes with significant dates like feature freeze.
Robbie blogged recently about removing non-LTS releases ("rolling
release"). I wonder if this three month UDS frequency is part of
that. Removing non-LTS releases will remove a lot of what makes
Ubuntu a great community project, cadance has always been a hallmark
of Ubuntu.
These are probably good moves for Canonical's need to move to working
with businesses and keeping its bank balance healthy but they're very
bad moves for Ubuntu as a community project.
Jonathan
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ubuntu-devel mailing list
ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
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Ubuntu Developer Summits Now Online and Every Three Months
Hi All, >From the beginning of the Ubuntu project the Ubuntu community has discussed, designed, and planned each release of Ubuntu at the http://uds.ubuntu.com/";>Ubuntu Developer Summit (UDS), which happens every six months at the beginning of a new release cycle. The event, organized and funded by Canonical, is designed to get the brightest minds in the Ubuntu community together and develop a rigorous set of blueprints and work items for the forthcoming release of Ubuntu. These blueprints are tracked openly in https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/and work items tracked openly at http://status.ubuntu.com. UDS has had a long culture of openness and transparency, including remote participation features, but Canonical wants to continue improving and refining the openness and accessibility of the event. Furthermore, we also want to open the opportunity for those to participate who cannot travel physically to the event, particularly those who can bring specialist experience and expertise across the convergent goals of Ubuntu across the client and cloud orchestration in the server. Finally with the change and evolution of Ubuntu and the increasing diversity of experience joining the Ubuntu community, we want to be able to have community-wide discussions more often than every six months. With these goals in mind the Ubuntu Developer Summit is transitioning over to an online event that takes place for two days every three months, and driven by live video discussion sessions, complete with integrated discussion, note-taking, and harnessing social media. This online event will replace future physical UDSs, including the event originally planned in Oakland, California in May 2013. In the new online format the event will make extensive use of Google+ Hangouts On Air split across four channels, Client, Server & Cloud, Community, and App Developers, with each channel having two video streams totalling 8 potential concurrent UDS topics. UDS sessions will be spread across these channels with integrated IRC, Etherpad, Social Media sharing, and links to blueprints and specs. As with the physical UDS, the event will also include keynotes, plenary sessions and lightning talks; providing a great online venue for planning the future of Ubuntu as well as delivering news, education, demos and other related material. As with the physical UDS, the new online format is open to all to participate as a contributor or viewer, and we are confident that the online format will open up UDS to more and more people around the world. The new format of UDS provides an enhanced level of openness and transparency that is optimized for online participants. Unlike the physical UDS where a portion of the agenda is recorded in video form, *every* session in the new UDS format will be recorded and available from the schedule. Likewise, with the format of the event being online, the audio and video quality of the online experience should be much improved compared to recording a physical room of people with a single microphone and camera and variable sound levels. The full set of recordings will also make reviewing past sessions easier and make it easier for the press, enthusiasts, partners and others to review the details of the discussions. The event will continue to be scheduled at http://summit.ubuntu.com and due to the lighter nature of organizing an online event as opposed to a physical event, the new UDS format will be scheduled approximately every three months (as opposed to every six months). This will provide an increased level of participation and discussion around how we create and build Ubuntu across the desktop, devices and cloud. With the fantastic level of interest in the recent phone and tablet announcements, we decided that we couldn’t wait until May to run this new format for UDS, so the first online UDS will be taking place next week from 5th - 6th March 2013 from 4pm UTC - 10pm UTC and the next event will take place around the same time as the originally scheduled physical UDS in Oakland; we will confirm the dates soon. Canonical will review the success of the next two online events and then then assess whether to continue the online format. We look forward to seeing you at the inaugural online UDS next week! Thanks! Jono -- Jono Bacon Ubuntu Community Manager www.ubuntu.com / www.jonobacon.org www.identi.ca/jonobacon www.twitter.com/jonobacon -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
