Re: Proposal: Ubuntu Metadistribution
Your description roughly matches the way that Ubuntu is already structured. Yes, it matches the way Ubuntu is structured. But - as you know - Ubuntu is GNU/Linux today. The first new proposal of me was to get other free operating systems under Ubuntu's project. That is, I don't see any work to be done on the core OS in order to enable the development of the derivatives you describe. You are very right. For the core Ubuntu as it is today you don't have any work to be done. The only work to be done if Ubuntu Metadistribution is going to be reality is to include the other OSes step for step into the Ubuntu structure (repository, live cds and so on). There is already a derivative of Ubuntu using the OpenSolaris kernel, for example. Thank you very much for bringing this distribution into discussion. As cool as Nexenta - the Ubuntu OpenSolaris mix disro - is it has in my eyes one flaw: It mixes two worlds - the world of (Open)Solaris and GNU/Linux- on a very low level : It uses the kernel of on OS (Solaris) and uses the (low level) libraries and userland of another (GNU/Linux). This mix is not good. For one: The low level libs of GNU and also the userland is today developed with Linux in mind. But - staying in this example - (Open)Solaris has its own proven and tested libs and userland which the users of this operating system like and know. The mix on this level is - today at least - not good. For two: Users who want to use (Open)Solaris want the full (Open)Solaris experience (I hope you can see what I want to say here.) There are many who don't like the GNu userland for example. (For three: -As the Ubuntu folks come from Debian they would understand this - The mixing of libs and userland Nexenta does is not clean as the license questions are stil not solved today.) So what is it that you are proposing specifically? What I want is to combine the worlds of several free operating systems with the philosophy of Ubuntu: ease of use, shiny new releases every eye blink , cool community, business awareness but - with the combination of several operating systems under Ubuntu - the _full_ choice the free software world gives. Let me specify this - with the things I wrote above in mind- in the example of Ubuntu/OpenSolaris: The original OpenSolaris with its libs and docus and userland (in the OpenSolaris world these are called consolidations) + The packages to get all the functionality of a Ubuntu Release (CD/DVD) from the Blastwave repository (this is a repo which gives the Solaris user an apt-get like structure. + The Ubuntu specific programs and packages ported to OpenSolaris (for example the installer, the update notifier but also the Gnome adaptations of Ubuntu). Please have in mind here that the OpenSolaris world stays as it is and it is known to the user (with some very little adaptations). This all combined in the Ubuntu repositories , with the apropriate user mailing lists and forums, tested for half year release as Ubuntu/GNU/Linux is tested and released every six months. (Port this example to the other proposed operating systems FreeBSD, NetBSD). The end user gets a web-site, where he clicks and chooses the operating system he wants to test/learn/use, where he clicks and chooses the desktop environment and experience he wants under the chosen OS (Gnome,KDE,XFCE) where he clicks and chooses the kind of release he wants to download (CD/DVD, mybe USB sticks in the future). So in the end every one would get : the __full__ choice the world of free software gives the user but with the community support structure of Ubuntu today. I hope that my example made it clear what I proposed. Thank you for your questions. regards Gueven ___ SMS schreiben mit WEB.DE FreeMail - einfach, schnell und kostenguenstig. Jetzt gleich testen! http://f.web.de/?mc=021192 -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Proposal: Ubuntu Metadistribution
Hi One thing to consider here is that the FOSS scene gets enough stick about fragmentation with the sheer number of distributions we already have. 4 official variations of Ubuntu is enough for me. You have to remember why Ubuntu works as well as it does in the first place - because canonical took a core set of software and decided to support it. By having lots of variations as you propose, it will make QA orders of magnitude more difficult. I think this proposal will have to wait until Ubuntu has grown into something much bigger and much more mature. While Ubuntu is indeed the flagship of it just works distros, I don't think it's quite at the level it needs to be before we can start diluting efforts. Cheers On Sat, 2007-04-21 at 08:13 +0200, Gueven Bay wrote: Your description roughly matches the way that Ubuntu is already structured. Yes, it matches the way Ubuntu is structured. But - as you know - Ubuntu is GNU/Linux today. The first new proposal of me was to get other free operating systems under Ubuntu's project. That is, I don't see any work to be done on the core OS in order to enable the development of the derivatives you describe. You are very right. For the core Ubuntu as it is today you don't have any work to be done. The only work to be done if Ubuntu Metadistribution is going to be reality is to include the other OSes step for step into the Ubuntu structure (repository, live cds and so on). There is already a derivative of Ubuntu using the OpenSolaris kernel, for example. Thank you very much for bringing this distribution into discussion. As cool as Nexenta - the Ubuntu OpenSolaris mix disro - is it has in my eyes one flaw: It mixes two worlds - the world of (Open)Solaris and GNU/Linux- on a very low level : It uses the kernel of on OS (Solaris) and uses the (low level) libraries and userland of another (GNU/Linux). This mix is not good. For one: The low level libs of GNU and also the userland is today developed with Linux in mind. But - staying in this example - (Open)Solaris has its own proven and tested libs and userland which the users of this operating system like and know. The mix on this level is - today at least - not good. For two: Users who want to use (Open)Solaris want the full (Open)Solaris experience (I hope you can see what I want to say here.) There are many who don't like the GNu userland for example. (For three: -As the Ubuntu folks come from Debian they would understand this - The mixing of libs and userland Nexenta does is not clean as the license questions are stil not solved today.) So what is it that you are proposing specifically? What I want is to combine the worlds of several free operating systems with the philosophy of Ubuntu: ease of use, shiny new releases every eye blink , cool community, business awareness but - with the combination of several operating systems under Ubuntu - the _full_ choice the free software world gives. Let me specify this - with the things I wrote above in mind- in the example of Ubuntu/OpenSolaris: The original OpenSolaris with its libs and docus and userland (in the OpenSolaris world these are called consolidations) + The packages to get all the functionality of a Ubuntu Release (CD/DVD) from the Blastwave repository (this is a repo which gives the Solaris user an apt-get like structure. + The Ubuntu specific programs and packages ported to OpenSolaris (for example the installer, the update notifier but also the Gnome adaptations of Ubuntu). Please have in mind here that the OpenSolaris world stays as it is and it is known to the user (with some very little adaptations). This all combined in the Ubuntu repositories , with the apropriate user mailing lists and forums, tested for half year release as Ubuntu/GNU/Linux is tested and released every six months. (Port this example to the other proposed operating systems FreeBSD, NetBSD). The end user gets a web-site, where he clicks and chooses the operating system he wants to test/learn/use, where he clicks and chooses the desktop environment and experience he wants under the chosen OS (Gnome,KDE,XFCE) where he clicks and chooses the kind of release he wants to download (CD/DVD, mybe USB sticks in the future). So in the end every one would get : the __full__ choice the world of free software gives the user but with the community support structure of Ubuntu today. I hope that my example made it clear what I proposed. Thank you for your questions. regards Gueven ___ SMS schreiben mit WEB.DE FreeMail - einfach, schnell und kostenguenstig. Jetzt gleich testen! http://f.web.de/?mc=021192 -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss -- Alex Jones
Re: Proposal: Ubuntu Metadistribution
snipped What I want is to combine the worlds of several free operating systems with the philosophy of Ubuntu: ease of use, shiny new releases every eye blink , cool community, business awareness but - with the combination of several operating systems under Ubuntu - the _full_ choice the free software world gives. Let me specify this - with the things I wrote above in mind- in the example of Ubuntu/OpenSolaris: The original OpenSolaris with its libs and docus and userland (in the OpenSolaris world these are called consolidations) + The packages to get all the functionality of a Ubuntu Release (CD/DVD) from the Blastwave repository (this is a repo which gives the Solaris user an apt-get like structure. + The Ubuntu specific programs and packages ported to OpenSolaris (for example the installer, the update notifier but also the Gnome adaptations of Ubuntu). Please have in mind here that the OpenSolaris world stays as it is and it is known to the user (with some very little adaptations). This all combined in the Ubuntu repositories , with the apropriate user mailing lists and forums, tested for half year release as Ubuntu/GNU/Linux is tested and released every six months. (Port this example to the other proposed operating systems FreeBSD, NetBSD). The end user gets a web-site, where he clicks and chooses the operating system he wants to test/learn/use, where he clicks and chooses the desktop environment and experience he wants under the chosen OS (Gnome,KDE,XFCE) where he clicks and chooses the kind of release he wants to download (CD/DVD, mybe USB sticks in the future). So in the end every one would get : the __full__ choice the world of free software gives the user but with the community support structure of Ubuntu today. I hope that my example made it clear what I proposed. Hi Gueven, Its an interesting concept, what you are suggesting is a kind of installer script which kicks off pulls software from different repositories spits a release at the end (similar perhaps to Garnome, Gentoo builds, a sort of script Mann2003 is supposedly to pull software from various repos http://ubuntusoftware.info/ultimate/ ) but while they have very specific environments in mind yours is much more larger. Issues right from licensing (every distro. is not under GPL license) (user agrees to each specific license seperately ? ) while downloading, to testing the scripts. Add to that the additional hardware platforms: AMD64, Alpha, i386, MIPS, 68000, PowerPC, Sparc, Sparc64, VAX, Zaurus its truly a manmoth exercise. AFAIK there is/was some talk of dropping official PowerPC support for Ubuntu although community support would be there. Further AFAIK there are only some 30 odd developers who are doing everything from building packages from source, to answering newbie, bug squashing etc. which does take a lotta time I guess. Thank you for your questions. regards Gueven Of course I'm just a user of the distro. so some things I might just get plain wrong. But that's how I see it. It's a great suggestion but is it a good time for doing something like that. I would guess it would have more success if its a community effort rather than the official. At some point if it becomes stable, more functional then there would be possibility of it being on the official list. You could also think of starting it on the ubuntuforums 3rd party project see the kind of response you get for the project. Who knows it might turn out to be the biggest thing since sliced bread. :) -- Shirish Agarwal This work is licensed under the Creative Commons NonCommercial Sampling Plus 1.0 License. To view a copy of this license, visit http://creativecommons.org/licenses/nc-sampling+/1.0/ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: texlive
Hi, Michael R. Head [2007-04-21 0:33 -0400]: 3. Transitions. I think gutsy will mostly likely see a tetex - texlive 2007 transition although I haven't seen any specs are talk about that. Maybe a good topic of discussion? Debian/sid has already transitioned, so won't gutsy automatically pick this up unless otherwise prevented? This is definitively the plan. It would not make sense at all to try to stick to tetex. This is on my merge list anyway (being 'touched it last'), and it will make sure that it happens early, so that you guys can give it some polishing. :) Thanks, Martin -- Martin Pitthttp://www.piware.de Ubuntu Developer http://www.ubuntu.com Debian Developer http://www.debian.org signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
