The new firefox start page looks a bit tricky when searching google
Hi all. The new firefox start page in hardy: http://start.ubuntu.com/8.04/ is aesthetically pleasing, and I like it, however the google search gives me concerns: 1) search results returned using the search field of firefox (upper right corner of the browser) are different than those returned using the search field in the page, and in particular I see more ads from the ubuntu page (don't know why but from firefox I see ads very seldomly - maybe due to the google cookie that knows I dislike them :) ) 2) country seems to be set to "UK", which can explain (1) but I don't like this behaviour especially because it breaks usability for non-UK users and creates confusion 3) adblock is not taken into account (but it is not adblock filtering my google ads, I just disabled it to test) 4) the obtained page does not have the standard google look and feel (in particular there is no top bar with google images etc.) 5) there already is the search engine input field, and the focus is shifted without conditions to the page field only after loading the ubuntu page, which is rather irritating because you may already be typing then. In default firefox setup, we seem to have a duplicate functionality (the two search boxes) and, even worse, results are /slightly/ different! Summing up, I fear that new users will by default use the google search they see in front of them and think that ubuntu or canonical is tricking them some way, because they see more ads, a non-standard results page, and likely not their native language (three typical symptoms of a possible scam or dns fraud, I might say!). Thanks to anybody who will want to clarify the issues Vincenzo -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Ubuntu boot speed fall in Hardy
Hi, I've noticed that Ubuntu's boot speed seems to have taken a fall in Hardy. Anecdotally I believe that Gutsy was the fastest but from a viewable stats perspective the fall can be seen in Feisty versus Hardy on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BootCharting#head-dca0372aa8fd490a9717ad0c72c9b400c236a581 . While not as slow as other distros it is a shame to see things slow down a bit. Of special interest to me is the fall in "time to usable auto-login desktop" case as this is something I use regularly. It seems that modern Ubuntu simply has more to do/start after a user logs in... Before I forget back in the Gutsy days I ran various timing tests to see what would help boot speed. I think I found that doing a profile boot helped the most (although you may never get back the time it took to do the profile boot :) followed by disabling appropriate modules in /etc/default/linux-restricted-modules-common (if you use restricted drivers) and finally a very slight improvement by not starting services for things you don't have (e.g. this machine doesn't have bluetooth) but one must take care when doing this. The difference between disabling services using /etc/default/ and update-rc.d remove seemed very small. I had more benefit tuning readahead to read files that were used during user log in too. Shutdown speed also seems to have fallen in Hardy with gdm often hanging for 30 seconds when it stopped and the first stage of the shutdown animation is often not displayed. -- Sitsofe | http://sucs.org/~sits/ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu boot speed fall in Hardy
Sitsofe Wheeler wrote: > Hi, > > I've noticed that Ubuntu's boot speed seems to have taken a fall in > Hardy. Anecdotally I believe that Gutsy was the fastest but from a > viewable stats perspective the fall can be seen in Feisty versus Hardy > on > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BootCharting#head-dca0372aa8fd490a9717ad0c72c9b400c236a581 > . While not as slow as other distros it is a shame to see things slow down a > bit. > > Of special interest to me is the fall in "time to usable auto-login > desktop" case as this is something I use regularly. It seems that modern > Ubuntu simply has more to do/start after a user logs in... Intrepid seems to me like a good time to include the prefetching work that was done in 2007 summer of code. and maybe preload as well (more for application load time than boot time), if the two can work together. It is quite a popular idea http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/31/ sam -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: The new firefox start page looks a bit tricky when searching google
On Sat, 2008-05-10 at 11:21 +0200, Vincenzo Ciancia wrote: > Hi all. > > The new firefox start page in hardy: > > http://start.ubuntu.com/8.04/ > > is aesthetically pleasing, and I like it, however the google search > gives me concerns: Hi, The website also uses launchpad for bug tracking, you can file any bugs you like at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+filebug where the people able to do something about it are more likely to see it. Thanks, James -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: The new firefox start page looks a bit tricky when searching google
Il giorno sab, 10/05/2008 alle 12.08 +0100, James Westby ha scritto: > > The website also uses launchpad for bug tracking, you can file any > bugs you like at > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+filebug > > where the people able to do something about it are more likely to > see it. If this was a bug, I'd have reported it suddenly, as I often did in the past :) Vincenzo -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu boot speed fall in Hardy
On Sat, 2008-05-10 at 10:58 +0100, Sitsofe Wheeler wrote: > Hi, > > I've noticed that Ubuntu's boot speed seems to have taken a fall in > Hardy. Anecdotally I believe that Gutsy was the fastest but from a > viewable stats perspective the fall can be seen in Feisty versus Hardy > on > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BootCharting#head-dca0372aa8fd490a9717ad0c72c9b400c236a581 > . While not as slow as other distros it is a shame to see things slow down a > bit. > > Of special interest to me is the fall in "time to usable auto-login > desktop" case as this is something I use regularly. It seems that modern > Ubuntu simply has more to do/start after a user logs in... Issues with slow-loading GNOME popped up in Gutsy. There's been a lot of discussion on that bug. It seems the gnome-panel just hangs for a while opening and closing something. -- Mackenzie Morgan http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com apt-get moo signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: The new firefox start page looks a bit tricky when searching google
> 2) country seems to be set to "UK", which can explain (1) but I don't > like this behaviour especially because it breaks usability for non-UK > users and creates confusion Oh, that is pretty ugly :o > 4) the obtained page does not have the standard google look and feel (in > particular there is no top bar with google images etc.) The obtained page is actually a Google Custom Search. I think it's ideal here since it gives us control over the results page. The only problem is that it looks /too much/ like Google! I think it would be quite nice to have it themed like the start page :) > 5) there already is the search engine input field, and the focus is > shifted without conditions to the page field only after loading the > ubuntu page, which is rather irritating because you may already be > typing then. In default firefox setup, we seem to have a duplicate > functionality (the two search boxes) and, even worse, results > are /slightly/ different! Use a different browser, then :P You are right, it's a tad odd. I think an ideal fix would be for that to lead us to an Ubuntu-related search, but that could also fool / confuse people. Bye, -Dylan -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: The new firefox start page looks a bit tricky when searching google
Il giorno sab, 10/05/2008 alle 06.50 -0700, Dylan McCall ha scritto: > > > 5) there already is the search engine input field, and the focus is > > shifted without conditions to the page field only after loading the > > ubuntu page, which is rather irritating because you may already be > > typing then. In default firefox setup, we seem to have a duplicate > > functionality (the two search boxes) and, even worse, results > > are /slightly/ different! > > Use a different browser, then :P > You are right, it's a tad odd. I think an ideal fix would be for that > to lead us to an Ubuntu-related search, but that could also fool / > confuse people. Why is it worth having control over search results? Does ubuntu alter those in any way? However, perhaps a wise thing is to write something like "ubuntu google custom search" above the form. In any case I dislike the idea of having a form in the default home page unless the page is local, because slow network may lead to shift of focus while typing. I remember firefox 1 not having this behaviour (and I used to brag with my ie-users fellows - but since then, something changed - I now don't know any ie-user anymore - or maybe they're no longer my friends :) ). And, to get back on the issue, perhaps the page could just be made local. Vincenzo -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: firefox and bad ssl certificates
Le vendredi 09 mai 2008 à 17:02 -0400, Phillip Susi a écrit : > Martin Pitt wrote: > > I don't consider it a new feature, but a better UI. Firefox has always > > complained about invalid certificates, but until version 2 it was just > > the well-known 'SSL yadayada cannot be verified mumblemumble click > > here to shut me up' popup dialog, and really everyone just clicked > > this away, right? Security click-through dialogs should be abolished, > > since they achieve nothing and are really just an excuse for the > > software provider: "I know it is unsafe, and cannot give you something > > better. Of course you can't know either, but at least I can make it > > your problem now." > > > > Now you get at least a proper error message page. I don't doubt that > > the text can be improved, and make more concise/clear, etc., but the > > UI is much better IMHO. > > I could not disagree with this more strongly. You can't go around > applying nerf padding to everything to protect against the possibility > of someone running head first into the wall. When you try to protect > people from themselves, and that protection has a negative impact on > them, you aren't doing them any favors. I don't like the fact that my > car won't let me ( or my passenger ) choose to fiddle with the gps while > the wheels are turning, and I don't like this change to firefox. > > An invalid cert is something that MIGHT be cause for concern, but often > is not, so a notification is quite sufficient to let the user decide if > it is ok to proceed or not. Making them jump through hoops of fire to > be SURE they want to proceed is a bad idea. Notifications are never read, especially by users that are not passionate by computers - they're exactly like there was no message at all, only they annoy users: "click OK and then see if there's a problem" is what OS have used people to for many years. And after that the lock in the adress bar still seems to confirm you're on a secure website. > Now improving the existing message to be more informative and educate > the user as to what is going on is something I'm all for, but you should > not assume the user has no clue and must be locked up to protect him > from himself. IMHO it's not mainly about educating the user, but to force servers to use correct certificates. When freedesktop.org will understand every person that goes to their bugtracker gets to the new Firefox warning, I guess they will change their certificate. ;-) (just an example) To continue your metaphor, it's primarily intended to force GPS vendors to provide hands-free models so that then you can drive without this kind of concern. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: The new firefox start page looks a bit tricky when searching google
Le samedi 10 mai 2008 à 16:01 +0200, Vincenzo Ciancia a écrit : > And, to get back on the issue, perhaps the page could just be made > local. Why do we need a special Ubuntu homepage anyway? The first thing I do when creating an account is changing my homepage to google.com. This practice mades me think of Internet Explorer defaulting to msn.com - well, much less ugly since our page is not full of ads and is using a "real" search engine. Wouldn't it be better to provide a page with help and informations about Ubuntu and some links like: "Set your homepage to google.com"/"to yahoo.com"/"to a custom page" ? We should keep in mind that people install an OS not to think about this OS but to work or surf; let's not be intrusive but help them to find easily what they want. What do you think? -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu boot speed fall in Hardy
Am 10.05.2008 um 11:58 schrieb Sitsofe Wheeler: > I've noticed that Ubuntu's boot speed seems to have taken a fall in > Hardy. How would one notice? Is Hardys hibernating/standby still so flaky one is forced to shut down the computer more than once a month? Maybe such questions appear not serious to some and maybe it even looks like I want to disencourage you, but I'd be much more concerned about standby stability as about boot times. Markus - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dipl. Ing. Markus Hitter http://www.jump-ing.de/ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: help
since hardy (8.04) there is a graphical user interface for DSL/pppoe connections, see the menu "System/Administration/Network": - select "Point to point connection" and start "Properties" dialog - choose "Connection type" as "PPPoE" and configure your connection... Best Greetings, Roman Friesen PS: now from the right email for this mailing list... Am Donnerstag, den 08.05.2008, 13:12 +0530 schrieb shashank Agarwal: > hi > i am shashank from india ,, and ubuntu lover. > i love this software..would you just try out to get latest yahoo > messenger to work on ubuntu.and also Gtalk.and also try coping in wid > the latest MS-office 2007 coz some of my applications aren,t workin in > it.. > > also please provide a Graphical User Interface for configuring my DSL > (pppoe) connection . it took a lot of time understandin how to do > that coz in other linux versions its very easy.. > we wud be highly obliged > > from > shashank agarwal > address- tulsi ashram, massoodabad, aligarh-202001, U.P., India > tel no.-0091-9927293307 > > > __ > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try > it now. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: firefox and bad ssl certificates
On Sat, 2008-05-10 at 16:08 +0200, Milan Bouchet-Valat wrote: > Notifications are never read, especially by users that are not > passionate by computers - they're exactly like there was no message at > all, only they annoy users: "click OK and then see if there's a problem" > is what OS have used people to for many years. And after that the lock > in the adress bar still seems to confirm you're on a secure website. The lock in the address bar means you have reached a web site that employs a certificate signed by one of your accepted (either by default, or by your own voluntary actions) root certificates; it also means exchanges between your computer and the web site are encrypted (and, as such, more private). It does not mean, at all, that this web site is more or less secure than any other. Please do not confuse security with privacy. > IMHO it's not mainly about educating the user, but to force servers to > use correct certificates. When freedesktop.org will understand every > person that goes to their bugtracker gets to the new Firefox warning, > guess they will change their certificate. ;-) (just an example) > Why should (for example) freedesktop.org change their certificate? Because we do not deploy their root in our known roots (huh, BTW, *all* top-most roots are *always* self-signed)? What is a correct certificate? Where is the standard, RFC or otherwise, that says so? Also, please keep in mind that what we are buying in is trust in the signer of the certificate (the so-called root), not trust in the principal. By definition, your system will trust all certificates signed by an accepted root. If you really want to lock in a specific principal, you have to validate the root and check the DN or CN. Then, it really does not matter if the certificate being checked has been signed by an already known root, or it is a self-signed. In this case, we should have a way of specifying that a web site will only be accepted if the certificate is signed by a specific root (or root chain), and has a specific CN (or DN). And this brings to my mind the old key distribution problem... ..hggdh.. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu boot speed fall in Hardy
On Sat, May 10, 2008 at 10:58:12AM +0100, Sitsofe Wheeler wrote: > I've noticed that Ubuntu's boot speed seems to have taken a fall in > Hardy. Anecdotally I believe that Gutsy was the fastest but from a > viewable stats perspective the fall can be seen in Feisty versus Hardy > on > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BootCharting#head-dca0372aa8fd490a9717ad0c72c9b400c236a581 > > While not as slow as other distros it is a shame to see things slow down a > bit. It's curious Fedora 9 showed such poor results compared with Ubuntu (and compared with Fedora 8), given that they are listing fast Xorg boot as a feature. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/OneSecondX I'll be interested to see if the fast Xorg boot stuff in the upcoming Xorg 1.5 will boost our boot numbers, or if the Xorg boot time just gets lost in the noise. Bryce -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: firefox and bad ssl certificates
CAcert doesn't even have a valid certificate? https://www.cacert.org/ Todd -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: help
since hardy (8.04) there is a graphical user interface for DSL/pppoe connections, see the menu "System/Administration/Network": - select "Point to point connection" and start "Properties" dialog - choose "Connection type" as "PPPoE" and configure your connection... Best Greetings, Roman Friesen Am Donnerstag, den 08.05.2008, 13:12 +0530 schrieb shashank Agarwal: > hi > i am shashank from india ,, and ubuntu lover. > i love this software..would you just try out to get latest yahoo > messenger to work on ubuntu.and also Gtalk.and also try coping in wid > the latest MS-office 2007 coz some of my applications aren,t workin in > it.. > > also please provide a Graphical User Interface for configuring my DSL > (pppoe) connection . it took a lot of time understandin how to do > that coz in other linux versions its very easy.. > we wud be highly obliged > > from > shashank agarwal > address- tulsi ashram, massoodabad, aligarh-202001, U.P., India > tel no.-0091-9927293307 > > > __ > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try > it now. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu boot speed fall in Hardy
On Sat, 2008-05-10 at 17:34 +0200, Markus Hitter wrote: > Am 10.05.2008 um 11:58 schrieb Sitsofe Wheeler: > > I've noticed that Ubuntu's boot speed seems to have taken a fall in > > Hardy. > > How would one notice? Is Hardys hibernating/standby still so flaky > one is forced to shut down the computer more than once a month? Some people simply don't bother hibernate/suspend. I didn't know my computer suspended properly until someone asked a few weeks ago and I tested it out. I've had this laptop for nearly two years. Just because you use hibernate all the time doesn't mean everyone else does. I like properly shutting down so anything with memory leaks is sure to be cleared out. Plus, didn't you hear about one of the new exploits where they can run strings on your memory and pull out your passwords from it? If the memory's been powerless for a few minutes, it'll likely be all clear, but if you suspend and don't keep a sharp eye on your laptop (making sure no one tampers), stealing your passwords becomes very easy. -- Mackenzie Morgan http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com apt-get moo signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
