Re: feedback on new wiki theme

2008-09-05 Thread Markus Hitter

Am 06.09.2008 um 00:00 schrieb Mackenzie Morgan:

> On Fri, 2008-09-05 at 14:31 -0700, Jordan Mantha wrote:
>> This is a very nice theme and looks more professional and usable to
>> me. My only complaint is that it's rather narrow on all my computers
>> (widescreen laptop and LCD displays). It looks like we're losing an
>> awful lot of screen real estate. Is it possible to make it a fluid
>> rather than fixed width theme? http://www.ubuntu.com has the same
>> issue. It ends up looking rather cramped on all my computers and more
>> like a blog site (perhaps because of the ubiquity of some of
>> Wordpresses past default themes :-) ).
>
> There is one usability issue with letting the content get too wide,
> however.

For me, the content is too wide already. With the new theme I have to  
scroll sideways. The old theme works better in this regard.

> The reason is that as the lines get longer, it becomes more
> difficult to track which line one is reading.

Correct. I'll never understand why people find it convenient to have  
fullscreen (text) windows on a device like 1920 pixels wide.


Nevertheless, many people use fullscreen windows, screen sizes vary  
widely, and the most democratic solution is to avoid the insistence  
and use variable width rendering for web pages. Helps PDA users a lot  
as well.


my o.o2

MarKus

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Dipl. Ing. Markus Hitter
http://www.jump-ing.de/





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Re: Bugs for NM 0.7

2008-09-05 Thread Null Ack
To add to this, we have some serious regressions with problems of not
being able to consistently apply static IPs as well as custom MTU
values:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/258743

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/256054

http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=548114

I'm concerned that gnome seem to be pushing through beta 1, beta 2 and
onwards without resolving these bugs.

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Re: feedback on new wiki theme

2008-09-05 Thread Neal McBurnett
On Fri, Sep 05, 2008 at 06:07:49PM -0400, Connor Imes wrote:
> Jordan Mantha wrote:
> > On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 1:56 PM, Matthew East <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> Recently I've been developing a new theme which is intended to replace
> >> the existing themes on the documentation wiki
> >> (https://help.ubuntu.com/community). The intention of the theme is to
> >> make reading the wiki easier for a user (so the interface should be
> >> cleaner) and for an editor (so there is an editbar at the bottom of
> >> the screen which follows the window as you scroll).

My top priority for editing would be to put "save changes" next to the
comment on the edit, at end of edit box.  This would help folks add
comments which I find very helpful (and almost mandatory on
wikipedia)

The most problematic dimension on my screen is vertical.  The floating
footer takes yet more vertical space away from the viewing and edit
window, and that makes it much harder to have enough context when I
read or edit.  So I'd leave those at the top, or put them at the
bottom of the whole page if you prefer.

It would also help to tighten up or move the help examples in the edit
window.  When I preview an edit, I hate scrolling past the edit window
to get to the preview.

I find that my name at the bottom overlaps text while editing.

More comments below

> > This is a very nice theme and looks more professional and usable to
> > me. My only complaint is that it's rather narrow on all my computers
> > (widescreen laptop and LCD displays). It looks like we're losing an
> > awful lot of screen real estate. Is it possible to make it a fluid
> > rather than fixed width theme? http://www.ubuntu.com has the same
> > issue. It ends up looking rather cramped on all my computers and more
> > like a blog site (perhaps because of the ubiquity of some of
> > Wordpresses past default themes :-) ).

I agree with the desire to have a fluid view.  When I want a narrow
one I'll make my window narrow.  I know there are different
preferences on that, but that is my preference, both for this wiki and
for ubuntu.com.  But I don't see why we would need to preserve the
lack of fluidity of ubuntu.com - we could keep the same branding and
just change the fluidity.  I figure a wiki has a different mission and
much simpler layout than more complicated custom professional
ubuntu.com pages.

> I like the new theme as well, and agree that the page should not be 
> statically sized.  If we want to implement the static size somewhere, it 
> may be more appropriate for the official docs, not the community 
> documentation (then it's more like reading a book or a manual).

Right.

> -I also noticed that the Tabs in the upper right are gone, so it feels a 
> bit empty on that part of the page.  Will these be re-added?

Right.  It seems to me that the tabs are pretty important.

> -I think the Page History link at the end of a page should be in the 
> non-moving footer.

I use page history more than edit or subscribe, so I'd like it there also.

> -The "copyright" part of the footer seems a little awkward.  I think we 
> can condense it so that there isn't whitespace between the two lines.  

Yes - tighter would be my preference.

Beyond that - I definitely appreciate attention to updating the theme.
I like the smaller text.  Thanks!

Neal McBurnett http://mcburnett.org/neal/

> Ideas for improvement aside, I really like this theme - it doesn't 
> really take any getting used to (which is good), and looks much more 
> clean and professional than the older theme.  I really hope we can have 
> this ready in advance of Intrepid.  Thanks for making this happen!
>
> -Connor

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Re: [ubuntu-web] feedback on new wiki theme

2008-09-05 Thread tacone
On Sat, Sep 6, 2008 at 12:09 AM, Matthew East <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Jordan!
>
> On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 10:31 PM, Jordan Mantha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> This is a very nice theme and looks more professional and usable to
>> me. My only complaint is that it's rather narrow on all my computers
>> (widescreen laptop and LCD displays). It looks like we're losing an
>> awful lot of screen real estate. Is it possible to make it a fluid
>> rather than fixed width theme? http://www.ubuntu.com has the same
>> issue.
>
> I did think about this, but one of the points of the theme was to be
> consistent with the ubuntu.com website. As a result I'm pretty
> reluctant to depart from that unless the ubuntu.com website design
> changes.

I don't think that a documentation website and the main website need
to be consistent (beside basic branding). They just serve for
different purpouses. And while the new theme is nice and I applaud
your effort, I still like the old theme more.

Stefano

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Re: feedback on new wiki theme

2008-09-05 Thread Jordan Mantha
On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 3:00 PM, Mackenzie Morgan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri, 2008-09-05 at 14:31 -0700, Jordan Mantha wrote:
>> This is a very nice theme and looks more professional and usable to
>> me. My only complaint is that it's rather narrow on all my computers
>> (widescreen laptop and LCD displays). It looks like we're losing an
>> awful lot of screen real estate. Is it possible to make it a fluid
>> rather than fixed width theme? http://www.ubuntu.com has the same
>> issue. It ends up looking rather cramped on all my computers and more
>> like a blog site (perhaps because of the ubiquity of some of
>> Wordpresses past default themes :-) ).
>
> There is one usability issue with letting the content get too wide,
> however.  If you've ever used LaTeX, it defaults to something like 65
> char/line.  The reason is that as the lines get longer, it becomes more
> difficult to track which line one is reading.  Upon reaching the end of
> the line, the eyes must scroll much further left to find the beginning
> of the next line, and the longer the lines are the harder it is to track
> and the more likely one is to do that thing where a line is read twice
> or a line is skipped.  You'll also notice this principle in how
> newspapers and textbooks do columns.

Right, I'm certainly aware of that usability issue, but I think it's
better left to the user to decide the width than to keep it fixed.

-Jordan

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Re: feedback on new wiki theme

2008-09-05 Thread Matthew East
Hi Jordan!

On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 10:31 PM, Jordan Mantha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This is a very nice theme and looks more professional and usable to
> me. My only complaint is that it's rather narrow on all my computers
> (widescreen laptop and LCD displays). It looks like we're losing an
> awful lot of screen real estate. Is it possible to make it a fluid
> rather than fixed width theme? http://www.ubuntu.com has the same
> issue.

I did think about this, but one of the points of the theme was to be
consistent with the ubuntu.com website. As a result I'm pretty
reluctant to depart from that unless the ubuntu.com website design
changes.

That's probably a discussion we could have separately on the
ubuntu-website list (which I'm adding back into cc).

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Re: feedback on new wiki theme

2008-09-05 Thread Mackenzie Morgan
On Fri, 2008-09-05 at 14:31 -0700, Jordan Mantha wrote:
> This is a very nice theme and looks more professional and usable to
> me. My only complaint is that it's rather narrow on all my computers
> (widescreen laptop and LCD displays). It looks like we're losing an
> awful lot of screen real estate. Is it possible to make it a fluid
> rather than fixed width theme? http://www.ubuntu.com has the same
> issue. It ends up looking rather cramped on all my computers and more
> like a blog site (perhaps because of the ubiquity of some of
> Wordpresses past default themes :-) ).

There is one usability issue with letting the content get too wide,
however.  If you've ever used LaTeX, it defaults to something like 65
char/line.  The reason is that as the lines get longer, it becomes more
difficult to track which line one is reading.  Upon reaching the end of
the line, the eyes must scroll much further left to find the beginning
of the next line, and the longer the lines are the harder it is to track
and the more likely one is to do that thing where a line is read twice
or a line is skipped.  You'll also notice this principle in how
newspapers and textbooks do columns.

-- 
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apt-get moo


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Re: feedback on new wiki theme

2008-09-05 Thread Jordan Mantha
On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 1:56 PM, Matthew East <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Recently I've been developing a new theme which is intended to replace
> the existing themes on the documentation wiki
> (https://help.ubuntu.com/community). The intention of the theme is to
> make reading the wiki easier for a user (so the interface should be
> cleaner) and for an editor (so there is an editbar at the bottom of
> the screen which follows the window as you scroll).
>
> This is a call for testing and feedback of the theme. I'd really like
> to implement a similar theme for the development wiki at
> wiki.ubuntu.com if the feedback is positive.
>
> To test the theme, log into the help wiki and go to the preferences
> page (UserPreferences). Set the theme to 'ubuntunew' (you can easily
> set it back later). Then just edit a few pages and see what you think.
>
> It still needs some work in terms of the fonts and rigorous testing
> with non-firefox browsers, but I'd appreciate any additional feedback
> that people have at this stage. Please send comments to me, or if you
> are really keen, patches! The code is here:
>
> https://code.launchpad.net/~mdke/ubuntu-doc/helpwiki-newtheme

This is a very nice theme and looks more professional and usable to
me. My only complaint is that it's rather narrow on all my computers
(widescreen laptop and LCD displays). It looks like we're losing an
awful lot of screen real estate. Is it possible to make it a fluid
rather than fixed width theme? http://www.ubuntu.com has the same
issue. It ends up looking rather cramped on all my computers and more
like a blog site (perhaps because of the ubiquity of some of
Wordpresses past default themes :-) ).

-Jordan

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Re: feedback on new wiki theme

2008-09-05 Thread Dotan Cohen
2008/9/6 Matthew East <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 10:12 PM, Dotan Cohen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I do not see anything as having changed. Could you post a few static
>> pages, both with the new and old themes?
>
> There are some screenshots here - http://doc.ubuntu.com/~mdke/wikitheme/
>
> Note that the testing theme is available on the *help* wiki, at
> https://help.ubuntu.com/community and not the development wiki yet.
>

I would see the same thing in the screenshots that you do. Post actual
pages that I can test with different page widths, text sizes, and
other browser options.

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Re: feedback on new wiki theme

2008-09-05 Thread Matthew East
On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 10:12 PM, Dotan Cohen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I do not see anything as having changed. Could you post a few static
> pages, both with the new and old themes?

There are some screenshots here - http://doc.ubuntu.com/~mdke/wikitheme/

Note that the testing theme is available on the *help* wiki, at
https://help.ubuntu.com/community and not the development wiki yet.

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Re: feedback on new wiki theme

2008-09-05 Thread Dotan Cohen
2008/9/5 Matthew East <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Hi,
>
> Recently I've been developing a new theme which is intended to replace
> the existing themes on the documentation wiki
> (https://help.ubuntu.com/community). The intention of the theme is to
> make reading the wiki easier for a user (so the interface should be
> cleaner) and for an editor (so there is an editbar at the bottom of
> the screen which follows the window as you scroll).
>
> This is a call for testing and feedback of the theme. I'd really like
> to implement a similar theme for the development wiki at
> wiki.ubuntu.com if the feedback is positive.
>
> To test the theme, log into the help wiki and go to the preferences
> page (UserPreferences). Set the theme to 'ubuntunew' (you can easily
> set it back later). Then just edit a few pages and see what you think.
>
> It still needs some work in terms of the fonts and rigorous testing
> with non-firefox browsers, but I'd appreciate any additional feedback
> that people have at this stage. Please send comments to me, or if you
> are really keen, patches! The code is here:
>
> https://code.launchpad.net/~mdke/ubuntu-doc/helpwiki-newtheme
>

I do not see anything as having changed. Could you post a few static
pages, both with the new and old themes?

-- 
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feedback on new wiki theme

2008-09-05 Thread Matthew East
Hi,

Recently I've been developing a new theme which is intended to replace
the existing themes on the documentation wiki
(https://help.ubuntu.com/community). The intention of the theme is to
make reading the wiki easier for a user (so the interface should be
cleaner) and for an editor (so there is an editbar at the bottom of
the screen which follows the window as you scroll).

This is a call for testing and feedback of the theme. I'd really like
to implement a similar theme for the development wiki at
wiki.ubuntu.com if the feedback is positive.

To test the theme, log into the help wiki and go to the preferences
page (UserPreferences). Set the theme to 'ubuntunew' (you can easily
set it back later). Then just edit a few pages and see what you think.

It still needs some work in terms of the fonts and rigorous testing
with non-firefox browsers, but I'd appreciate any additional feedback
that people have at this stage. Please send comments to me, or if you
are really keen, patches! The code is here:

https://code.launchpad.net/~mdke/ubuntu-doc/helpwiki-newtheme

-- 
Matthew East
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gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF

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Ubuntu netbook remix upgrades

2008-09-05 Thread Brian Curtis
Just a simple question, and this may not even be the right place for it, so
my apologies beforehand.  I am wondering if the Ubuntu Netbook Remix will
also upgrade to intrepid when it is released in October? (j/w for if i
purchase a Dell Mini).

Thanks,
~Brian C.

Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing.
--Wernher Von Braun
"The second law of thermodynamics: If you think things are in a mess now,
JUST WAIT!!"
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Re: Bugs for NM 0.7

2008-09-05 Thread Jordan Mantha
On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 9:24 AM, Peteris Krisjanis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Btw, a slight offtopic from this message, but does it mean that there
> will be no network-admin from g-s-t in Ibex?
>
> Would be very sad if that happened.

It won't be installed by default. However, it is still in the archive
in the gnome-network-admin package. NM 0.7 seems to have gotten to the
place where it has basically all the same features so having 2 tools
to do the same thing becomes an issue. I was really against removing
the g-s-t network admin tool, but after using and testing NM 0.7 in
Intrepid for a while I think it'll be a good move for users.

-Jordan

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Re: ufw package integration

2008-09-05 Thread (``-_-´´) -- Fernando
Olá Didier e a todos.

On Friday 05 September 2008 07:51:34 Didier Roche wrote:
> (Sorry of top post as gmail seems to be used to it...)

Firefox addon BetterGmail2
http://ginatrapani.org/workshop/firefox/bettergmail2/

Allows you to do bottom posting on GMail.

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Re: USB installer (was Foundations team meeting minutes, 2008-09-03)

2008-09-05 Thread (``-_-´´) -- Fernando
> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/usb-installation-images
> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/usb-creator
> 
> > And what is that system-cleaner?
> 
> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/cleanup-cruft

thanks to both.

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Re: Bugs for NM 0.7

2008-09-05 Thread Peteris Krisjanis
Btw, a slight offtopic from this message, but does it mean that there
will be no network-admin from g-s-t in Ibex?

Would be very sad if that happened.

Peter.

2008/9/5 Thomas Novin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Hello
>
> I recall reading something about if you file bugs on NM 0.7 you should
> prefix the summary with NM 0.7. Is that correct?
>
> I have created 6 bugs for NM 0.7 but they are all untouched.
>
> NM 0.7 Regression from 0.6.6 using VPNC plugin
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/262191
> NM 0.7 Hard to fix if you have saved passwords for vpnc plugin (possible
> others)
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/262214
> NM 0.7 GSM/3G signal strength is not reported by NM
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/262232
> NM 0.7 VPNC plugin is missing option DNSUpdate No
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/262234
> NM 0.7 Sony Ericsson P1i isn't recognized as a 3G modem
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/262399
> NM 0.7 No option for connecting to L2TP IPSEC VPN
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/264691

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Re: Errors on 8.04 upgrade page?

2008-09-05 Thread Brian Murray
On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 06:28:11AM +0200, Mario Vukelic wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/upgrading
> 
> For the upgrade Dapper -> Hardy, it recommends either "update-manager
> -d" or "do-release-upgrade -d". However, in both cases the -d switch
> checks for the next development release, which seems to me not to be
> Hardy.
> 
> There just was a case on the -users list where this led to trouble:
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2008-August/157269.html
> 
> Is this as bad as it looks and should this be filed as a bug?

The instructions at http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/upgrading have been
updated with regards to how to perform an upgrade from Dapper to Hardy.
Thanks for bringing this to our attention.
 
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Re: OpenOffice 3 and Firefox 3.1 in Intrepid?

2008-09-05 Thread Chris Cheney
On Sun, 2008-08-31 at 11:30 +0530, Vishal Rao wrote:
> What is the latest status of the possibility of including OOo 3 and FF
> 3.1 by default in Intrepid?

OpenOffice.org 3.0 will be in Intrepid but it is looking like it will
not be as the primary version that is installed by default. The release
candidate and final dates for OOo 3 were originally set to Jul 25th and
Sep 2 respectively, but OOo has slipped a lot from those dates. OOo
3.0rc1 is still not released yet, it is currently expected to be
released on Sept 8 which puts the final release around Oct 20. That
doesn't leave enough time to make it even marginally stable, since that
would be only 3 days before the Intrepid release candidate.

If OpenOffice.org had been able to keep closer to their originally
stated schedules then this problem wouldn't have occurred.

Chris


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Re: kvm sandbox upgrade tester

2008-09-05 Thread Michael Vogt
On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 02:54:21PM +0100, (``-_-´´) -- Fernando wrote:
> Olá Michael e a todos.
Hi,

sorry for my late reply, I was on vacation.
 
> On Friday 08 August 2008 13:05:36 Michael Vogt wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I would like to ask for feedback/testing of the kvm "sandbox-upgrader"
> > package that is currently in my ppa at:
> > 
> > deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/mvo/ubuntu hardy main
> > 
> > It contains two scripts that need to be run with sudo:
> > - sandbox-clone-to-vm
> > - sandbox-test-upgrade
> > 
> > Thanks,
> >  Michael
> 
> I'm going to use this to test the 2.6.27 next kernel. any advice before I 
> move?
> 
> By the way is it :
> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/mvo/ubuntu hardy main
> or
> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/mvo/ubuntu intrepid main
> ?

If you run hardy, then please use:
deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/mvo/ubuntu hardy main

If you run intrepid you can just install the version in the archive. I
think it will not auto upgrade you when you run intrepid because it
will tell you that you already run intrepid. But you can still use the
clone feature and then manually log into the cloned system.

Cheers,
 Michael


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Bugs for NM 0.7

2008-09-05 Thread Thomas Novin
Hello

I recall reading something about if you file bugs on NM 0.7 you should
prefix the summary with NM 0.7. Is that correct?

I have created 6 bugs for NM 0.7 but they are all untouched.

NM 0.7 Regression from 0.6.6 using VPNC plugin
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/262191
NM 0.7 Hard to fix if you have saved passwords for vpnc plugin (possible
others)
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/262214
NM 0.7 GSM/3G signal strength is not reported by NM
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/262232
NM 0.7 VPNC plugin is missing option DNSUpdate No
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/262234
NM 0.7 Sony Ericsson P1i isn't recognized as a 3G modem
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/262399
NM 0.7 No option for connecting to L2TP IPSEC VPN
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/264691

Rgds

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Re: Resolving conflict in technical debates in an ideal world

2008-09-05 Thread (``-_-´´) -- Fernando
Olá Daniel e a todos.

On Thursday 04 September 2008 10:15:23 Daniel Holbach wrote:
> The reason why I suggest making use calls to more directly interact is
> that you can convey much more than the thoughts you have. You can hear
> out small nuances in the voice of the participants, you get much more of
> an impression who is speaking and how they mean what they say. It's far
> easier, in a call, to avoid misunderstandings by asking for a
> clarification early.

The main problem with VoIP is the transcripts: there are none!
We would have to resource to notes and ogg recordings.

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ps. My emails tend to sound authority and aggressive. I'm sorry in advance. 
I'll try to be more assertive as time goes by...


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