Re: Intrepid's gnome-session will easilly cause serious user data loss
Olá Markus e a todos. On Tuesday 28 October 2008 22:44:03 Markus Hitter wrote: Am 28.10.2008 um 18:36 schrieb Chris Coulson: So, it's been running all night waiting for me to respond to a dialog! Yet another reason to use standby or suspend instead of shutdown. ;-) When it works, lol https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/290191 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/288617 -- BUGabundo :o) (``-_-´´) http://LinuxNoDEI.BUGabundo.net Linux user #443786GPG key 1024D/A1784EBB My new micro-blog @ http://BUGabundo.net ps. My emails tend to sound authority and aggressive. I'm sorry in advance. I'll try to be more assertive as time goes by... signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Midnight Commander in 8.10
Good day Please add mc to the '8.10'. It's very useful -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Midnight Commander in 8.10
Hi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please add mc to the '8.10'. It's very useful It's too late to change anything in 8.10, it's frozen solid :) Also, as useful as mc is, it's only useful to a small amount of users, and will waste precious space on the Ubuntu release discs. mc is incredibly easy to install and it's not a big download, so I doubt it will be an issue for anyone who wants to use it. -Jonathan -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Midnight Commander in 8.10
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-10-29 5:12 +0800]: Good day Please add mc to the '8.10'. It's very useful It's right there, package mc, as it has always been in all Ubuntu releases. Martin -- Martin Pitt| http://www.piware.de Ubuntu Developer (www.ubuntu.com) | Debian Developer (www.debian.org) -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Quagga Update Package
2008/10/29 Orbiting Code Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello, I am a loyal Ubuntu user and would like to know if there is a plan to release the newer version of Quagga as an apt-get package for Ubuntu 8.04 Server. We run a small web hosting facility, and run BGP on an Ubuntu Server for two T1 lines. There is a bug that causes ppp interfaces to be randomly dropped by Quagga which might be fixed in the newer version of Quagga, I've been told by the Quagga folks. If you have any information regarding a future release of this new version, please let me know. Thanks, Todd Tebor -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss Hi, Whilst I can't directly answer your question, I can point you to some useful information. Ubuntu has a policy for updating packages in a stable release [1]. Generally, only high-impact bugs, security vulnerabilities and severe regressions would be elegible for a stable release update. It is very unusual to introduce a new upstream version of a package during a stable release, and I think this is unlikely to happen. If you are experiencing a specific bug with this package, you should first report it on Launchpad [2]. If the bug meets the criteria for a stable release update, the bug was known upstream and a specific patch can be identified upstream, then it may be possible to fix by cherry-picking this patch from the new upstream version (as long as it does not introduce other regressions). Otherwise, it may be possible to write a patch that fixes the particular bug for the existing Hardy version. There is a separate backports process for introducing newer versions of a package in to a stable release [3]. However it is unlikely to be useful to you in this case, as Intrepid is using the same upstream version as Hardy. Regards Chris [1] - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates [2] - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/quagga/+filebug [3] - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports#How%20to%20request%20new%20packages -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Quagga Update Package
Hello, I am a loyal Ubuntu user and would like to know if there is a plan to release the newer version of Quagga as an apt-get package for Ubuntu 8.04 Server. We run a small web hosting facility, and run BGP on an Ubuntu Server for two T1 lines. There is a bug that causes ppp interfaces to be randomly dropped by Quagga which might be fixed in the newer version of Quagga, I've been told by the Quagga folks. If you have any information regarding a future release of this new version, please let me know. Thanks, Todd Tebor -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Intrepid's gnome-session will easilly cause serious user data loss
Am 29.10.2008 um 09:16 schrieb (``-_-´´) -- Fernando: On Tuesday 28 October 2008 22:44:03 Markus Hitter wrote: Am 28.10.2008 um 18:36 schrieb Chris Coulson: So, it's been running all night waiting for me to respond to a dialog! Yet another reason to use standby or suspend instead of shutdown. ;-) When it works, lol https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/290191 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/288617 Glad to see standby and suspend getting more attention. For the records, I'm even dual-booting two suspended states on the same computer. Using Grub, I can choose wether to resume the suspended (hibernated) Windows XP or the suspended Intrepid. Works like a charm. MarKus - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dipl. Ing. Markus Hitter http://www.jump-ing.de/ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Midnight Commander in 8.10
On 2008/10/29 11:56 (GMT+0200) Jonathan Carter (highvoltage) composed: Also, as useful as mc is, it's only useful to a small amount of users, and will waste precious space on the Ubuntu release discs. mc is incredibly easy to install and it's not a big download, so I doubt it will be an issue for anyone who wants to use it. Anyone who wants to use it on a live Ubuntu CD is dead. To that small amount of users that know and use it, it's indispensible, and thus to such users who install only to find broken X and/or networking, they're stuck with another dead end. Leaving mc off the CD is like equipping a new car with the usual spare tire, but no jack. Get a flat out in the boonies at night, and getting that missing jack is less than incredibly easy, unless what displaced it on the CD is a larger automatic jack delivery service or automatic lift. -- Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to become angry. James 1:19 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Midnight Commander in 8.10
On Wednesday 29 October 2008 08:36, Felix Miata wrote: On 2008/10/29 11:56 (GMT+0200) Jonathan Carter (highvoltage) composed: Also, as useful as mc is, it's only useful to a small amount of users, and will waste precious space on the Ubuntu release discs. mc is incredibly easy to install and it's not a big download, so I doubt it will be an issue for anyone who wants to use it. Anyone who wants to use it on a live Ubuntu CD is dead. To that small amount of users that know and use it, it's indispensible, and thus to such users who install only to find broken X and/or networking, they're stuck with another dead end. Leaving mc off the CD is like equipping a new car with the usual spare tire, but no jack. Get a flat out in the boonies at night, and getting that missing jack is less than incredibly easy, unless what displaced it on the CD is a larger automatic jack delivery service or automatic lift. -- ... and doesn't have a network connection I use stuff not on the CD in live sessions all the time and unless you are networkless it's not a problem at all. Do keep in mind that the CD is full and so anything that goes on, means something else comes off. Balancing the interests of a diverse group of users in what goes on the CD is a continuing challenge. Scott K -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Midnight Commander in 8.10
On 2008/10/29 08:51 (GMT-0400) Scott Kitterman composed: On Wednesday 29 October 2008 08:36, Felix Miata wrote: ...users who install only to find broken X and/or networking ... Leaving mc off the CD is like equipping a new car with the usual spare tire, but no jack... ... and doesn't have a network connection For some number of boots, this is inevitable. I use stuff not on the CD in live sessions all the time and unless you are networkless it's not a problem at all. Networkless happens, sometimes intentionally. Do keep in mind that the CD is full and so anything that goes on, means something else comes off. Balancing the interests of a diverse group of users in what goes on the CD is a continuing challenge. This isn't the first time here mc has been deemed dispensible. This is why I have deemed all live Ubuntu CDs dispensible. Broken networking and broken X happen. I'm not wasting my time driving a car with no jack, and having to hitch a ride back for another car on those infrequent occasions when I do get a flat. I just start with a car smart enough to include the jack, like Knoppix, and recommend others do the same. -- Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to become angry. James 1:19 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Midnight Commander in 8.10
Am 29.10.2008 um 14:10 schrieb Felix Miata: This isn't the first time here mc has been deemed dispensible. This doesn't surprise me, as mc is a (intentionally old-fashioned) file manager an Nautilus covers this functionality already. One possible way of dealing with the situation is to add a Ubuntu derivate, composed for DOS fans. MarKus - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dipl. Ing. Markus Hitter http://www.jump-ing.de/ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Midnight Commander in 8.10
On 2008/10/29 14:23 (GMT+0100) Markus Hitter composed: Am 29.10.2008 um 14:10 schrieb Felix Miata: This isn't the first time here mc has been deemed dispensible. This doesn't surprise me, as mc is a (intentionally old-fashioned) file manager an Nautilus covers this functionality already. One What Nautilus covers isn't of much relevance to Kubuntu users, or users with broken X, and certainly little to none to mc-dependent users. possible way of dealing with the situation is to add a Ubuntu derivate, composed for DOS fans. MC isn't about DOS, nor about old-fashioned. It's about efficiently performing the panoply of tasks in the OFM repertoire. http://www.softpanorama.org/OFM/index.shtml http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthodox_file_manager#Orthodox_file_managers MC needs to be on every live Linux CD. -- Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to become angry. James 1:19 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Midnight Commander in 8.10
I haven't used MC since late 1990's and I can't really say I miss it! I perform lots of file-managing tasks every day and I'm quite happy with Nautilus. So no, I don't think MC _needs_ to be anywhere. Rgds -Original Message- From: Felix Miata [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: Midnight Commander in 8.10 Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 09:41:45 -0400 Mailer: Mozilla/5.0 (OS/2; U; Warp 4.5; en-US; rv:1.8.1.17) Gecko/20080913 SeaMonkey/1.1.12 (PmW) On 2008/10/29 14:23 (GMT+0100) Markus Hitter composed: Am 29.10.2008 um 14:10 schrieb Felix Miata: This isn't the first time here mc has been deemed dispensible. This doesn't surprise me, as mc is a (intentionally old-fashioned) file manager an Nautilus covers this functionality already. One What Nautilus covers isn't of much relevance to Kubuntu users, or users with broken X, and certainly little to none to mc-dependent users. possible way of dealing with the situation is to add a Ubuntu derivate, composed for DOS fans. MC isn't about DOS, nor about old-fashioned. It's about efficiently performing the panoply of tasks in the OFM repertoire. http://www.softpanorama.org/OFM/index.shtml http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthodox_file_manager#Orthodox_file_managers MC needs to be on every live Linux CD. -- Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to become angry. James 1:19 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Midnight Commander in 8.10
On 2008/10/29 14:48 (GMT+0100) Thomas Novin composed: I haven't used MC since late 1990's and I can't really say I miss it! I perform lots of file-managing tasks every day and I'm quite happy with Nautilus. How nice for you that you've never had broken X, and never will have, and never will need to help someone else with broken X. So no, I don't think MC _needs_ to be anywhere. Right. You'll never need it, so no one else should have it either. Ever heard of the tyranny of the majority? -- Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to become angry. James 1:19 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Midnight Commander in 8.10
On Wed, 2008-10-29 at 10:29 -0400, Felix Miata wrote: On 2008/10/29 14:48 (GMT+0100) Thomas Novin composed: I haven't used MC since late 1990's and I can't really say I miss it! I perform lots of file-managing tasks every day and I'm quite happy with Nautilus. How nice for you that you've never had broken X, and never will have, and never will need to help someone else with broken X. When X breaks, use bash. Simple enough. I think at that point, you're a bit more worried about fixing X than having a filebrowser that's your idea of pretty. Not that bash isn't a dandy file browser already, what that ls command and all. Honestly, between ls, mv, and cp, is there really any need at all for any file browser? I'm getting the impression from this thread that MC is for command-line users anyway. Right. You'll never need it, so no one else should have it either. Ever heard of the tyranny of the majority? I'm sorry, I didn't know Ubuntu was taking away your right to life by not shipping one specific file browser that you happen to prefer. I also wasn't aware that use of a certain filebrowser made you a minority usually subject to hate-crimes and thus in need of protection. -- Mackenzie Morgan http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com apt-get moo signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Midnight Commander in 8.10
Hi Felix Felix Miata wrote: I haven't used MC since late 1990's and I can't really say I miss it! I perform lots of file-managing tasks every day and I'm quite happy with Nautilus. How nice for you that you've never had broken X, and never will have, and never will need to help someone else with broken X. I'm sorry, but you seem to be missing the point. Firstly, there's not so much argument about how useful mc is. mc powerful and useful to many. I've been using it for quite a few things since 1999. What you have to realise is that the space on the Ubuntu installation disc is very, very limited. Every few releases, something very important to a vast majority of users have to be dropped because of the growth of all the applications. while mc is useful to many, it's certainly not critical, and the average user will certainly not want to learn mc in order to fix their X Server. By the way, how does mc fix X servers anyway? You're hitting quite hard on that point and I'm not quite sure how mc would make it easier for users to fix an X server. That's what things like the failsafe X session are for, unless you're refering to mcedit being a more intuitive editor for new users? -Jonathan -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Midnight Commander in 8.10
On 2008/10/29 17:18 (GMT+0200) Jonathan Carter (highvoltage) composed: Felix Miata wrote: I haven't used MC since late 1990's and I can't really say I miss it! I perform lots of file-managing tasks every day and I'm quite happy with Nautilus. How nice for you that you've never had broken X, and never will have, and never will need to help someone else with broken X. I'm sorry, but you seem to be missing the point. Firstly, there's not so much argument about how useful mc is. mc powerful and useful to many. I've been using it for quite a few things since 1999. I use it routinely, since 1986, when I first discovered NC, instead of using a bunch of other things I don't need to have or learn precisely because I have it. Knowing how to use OFMs has obviated more than token need to learn tools non-OFM bash users take for granted, and GUI users have no knowledge of or interest in. What you have to realise is that the space on the Ubuntu installation disc is very, very limited. This is ancient history that comes up every time some again asks to have it included by default. Those who don't use an OFM cannot appreciate the extraordinary value of an OFM. Thus, the tyranny of the majority rules neither mc nor any other OFM can live on a live buntu CD. Klaus Knopper knows its value, which makes his space-limited live CDs the live Linux media of choice for those in the know. You're hitting quite hard on that point and I'm not quite sure how mc would make it easier for users to fix an X server. Automatic tools for fixing X are nice when they work, but it's often the case that various and sundry things that a minor text edit would fix are impossible to fix with a fancy tool. Similar for networking. Though you may have X working, a telephone fix is often much easier navigating to a text file and changing a character or three than explaining how to grunge through yet another X with different menus and app names than the last. That's what things like the failsafe X session are for, unless you're refering to mcedit being a more intuitive editor for new users? It's rare for any tool to do more than a few things well, if even more than one. OFMs are such exceptions. The built-in FTP for fetching broken packages is easy to use, as that process is the same as fetching a file on a local filesystem, which is just as easy as in a GUI, having the advantage of a GUI in visually depicting the relationship of files and directories to each other, and making navigation a breeze. That an intuitive text editor is built in goes without saying. A couple of keystrokes, and you have an in place copy of the original, after which you edit and test, and copy the original back if it didn't help, with another very few keystrokes, quite unlike cp/mv/vi, etc. Helping a user in need over the phone to fix things like X or networking is easier if you can limit to one easy to use tool that requires a lot fewer steps to accomplish a difficult task. When you do it in mc you've taught a user to help himself, but that learning is only later useful in an environment that includes that tool. Really, it's a total waste of time to discuss OFMs with OFM non-users. People can't get what they're about if they don't use them. Only with routine use can anyone grasp just how valuable they really are, and now indispensable they are to those few who do depend on them. -- Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to become angry. James 1:19 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Midnight Commander in 8.10
On 2008/10/29 10:37 (GMT-0400) Mackenzie Morgan composed: On Wed, 2008-10-29 at 10:29 -0400, Felix Miata wrote: How nice for you that you've never had broken X, and never will have, and never will need to help someone else with broken X. When X breaks, use bash. Simple enough. Wrong. Not simple, unless you're familiar with it. OFM use obviates most need to know bash and the many tools bash users need to accomplish useful work. In 20+ years of OFM use, I've found little need to use or learn many tools for both cmdline and X, as OFM incorporates so many necessaries and works regardless where you are, be it Windoz, DOS, cmdline, XFCE, Unix or whatever your favorite or captive environment. Right. You'll never need it, so no one else should have it either. Ever heard of the tyranny of the majority? ...not shipping one specific file browser that you happen to prefer. I'm not picky. As long as there is some OFM that works the same on both cmdline and X on the live CD, I'm OK with it. I'm just not sure there is any other OFM option but mc in buntu. -- Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to become angry. James 1:19 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Midnight Commander in 8.10
Felix Miata [2008-10-29 10:29 -0400]: How nice for you that you've never had broken X But that's not what you asked about? Even if your installed system is totally broken, the live system will always boot, and seriously, the chances that X doesn't work in the live system, not even with a boring 800x600 VESA, are so negligible that I wouldn't care. On those systems you can probably not install Ubuntu/Kubuntu in the first place. Martin -- Martin Pitt| http://www.piware.de Ubuntu Developer (www.ubuntu.com) | Debian Developer (www.debian.org) -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Midnight Commander in 8.10
Hi, I am sorry to but in like this but this seems like a non-issue really or have i missed the point entirely? @Felix: You want mc on the CD since you have neither X nor a working network? I mean 'sudo apt-get install mc' is not really hard to type right? There are several potential problems with people not having sufficient rights etc to install and live-cd only servers can of course be a hassle but is it really such a big problem to either install mc or learn/teach a few bash cmds and a few moves in another editor? Is it really on the 8.04 CD? I had to install it manually. As for the value of OFM, I would like to emphasize the value power of bash. You can't beat the bash. For the record I would just like to say that i wouldn't mind having mc included, I kind of like it so if there is space let's put it in! / Henrik ons 2008-10-29 klockan 12:08 -0400 skrev Felix Miata: On 2008/10/29 17:18 (GMT+0200) Jonathan Carter (highvoltage) composed: Felix Miata wrote: I haven't used MC since late 1990's and I can't really say I miss it! I perform lots of file-managing tasks every day and I'm quite happy with Nautilus. How nice for you that you've never had broken X, and never will have, and never will need to help someone else with broken X. I'm sorry, but you seem to be missing the point. Firstly, there's not so much argument about how useful mc is. mc powerful and useful to many. I've been using it for quite a few things since 1999. I use it routinely, since 1986, when I first discovered NC, instead of using a bunch of other things I don't need to have or learn precisely because I have it. Knowing how to use OFMs has obviated more than token need to learn tools non-OFM bash users take for granted, and GUI users have no knowledge of or interest in. What you have to realise is that the space on the Ubuntu installation disc is very, very limited. This is ancient history that comes up every time some again asks to have it included by default. Those who don't use an OFM cannot appreciate the extraordinary value of an OFM. Thus, the tyranny of the majority rules neither mc nor any other OFM can live on a live buntu CD. Klaus Knopper knows its value, which makes his space-limited live CDs the live Linux media of choice for those in the know. You're hitting quite hard on that point and I'm not quite sure how mc would make it easier for users to fix an X server. Automatic tools for fixing X are nice when they work, but it's often the case that various and sundry things that a minor text edit would fix are impossible to fix with a fancy tool. Similar for networking. Though you may have X working, a telephone fix is often much easier navigating to a text file and changing a character or three than explaining how to grunge through yet another X with different menus and app names than the last. That's what things like the failsafe X session are for, unless you're refering to mcedit being a more intuitive editor for new users? It's rare for any tool to do more than a few things well, if even more than one. OFMs are such exceptions. The built-in FTP for fetching broken packages is easy to use, as that process is the same as fetching a file on a local filesystem, which is just as easy as in a GUI, having the advantage of a GUI in visually depicting the relationship of files and directories to each other, and making navigation a breeze. That an intuitive text editor is built in goes without saying. A couple of keystrokes, and you have an in place copy of the original, after which you edit and test, and copy the original back if it didn't help, with another very few keystrokes, quite unlike cp/mv/vi, etc. Helping a user in need over the phone to fix things like X or networking is easier if you can limit to one easy to use tool that requires a lot fewer steps to accomplish a difficult task. When you do it in mc you've taught a user to help himself, but that learning is only later useful in an environment that includes that tool. Really, it's a total waste of time to discuss OFMs with OFM non-users. People can't get what they're about if they don't use them. Only with routine use can anyone grasp just how valuable they really are, and now indispensable they are to those few who do depend on them. -- Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to become angry.James 1:19 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ signature.asc Description: Detta är en digitalt signerad meddelandedel -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Preparing for Ubuntu Open Week
Hi Jorge,
On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 1:03 AM, Jorge O. Castro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Right now we've penciled off Monday 3 November to 7 November as Open
Week for this cycle.
{snip}
Basically, if you're doing something cool that you'd like to run a
session on, put your name down on the list.
I had added Documentation to the list for this, but it wasn't
included in the final schedule. Obviously, I appreciate that it's not
possible to include every subject that you get recommendations on, but
the Ubuntu Documentation Project has been rather neglected in recent
Open Weeks: since appearing in the first two Open Weeks, it hasn't
appeared since then, and documentation is quite an important area of
the community because it's a substantial part of the user experience,
the project needs more contributions, and it is a great place for
people who don't code to get involved.
Perhaps documentation can be considered for a future Open Week?
One other small comment on the schedule: it's not totally clear
whether the aim of Open Week is about attracting new contributors
(which is what I had understood it to be about), because a few of the
sessions appear to about how to use particular features on Ubuntu,
which is something which will appeal to users, rather than
contributors. Those sessions look a bit like walkthrough sessions, or
live tutorials. I'm not saying that one type of session is more
valuable than the other, but perhaps it is worth making a clear
distinction because that way you are more likely to get the right
demographic of people attending each type of session. If there are
sessions which will be showing off particular features of Ubuntu, they
could be publicised as support sessions, or even be used as concrete
marketing initiatives.
--
Matthew East
http://www.mdke.org
gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF
--
Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list
Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Linux kernel debug information missing from Intrepid
Hello guys, first of let me congratulate on the Intrepid release, you made a great work, as usual! I would like to bring to your attention though that Intrepid seems to lack the linux-image-debug package. This is needed in order to use the Systemtap utility. I've filed a bug here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/289087 This is a regression from Hardy, which actually have that package. Thanks! -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Intrepid's gnome-session will easilly cause serious user data loss
Markus Hitter wrote: Glad to see standby and suspend getting more attention. For the records, I'm even dual-booting two suspended states on the same computer. Using Grub, I can choose wether to resume the suspended (hibernated) Windows XP or the suspended Intrepid. Works like a charm. Just make sure you do not mount any of the same partitions in both OSes. For example, if you mount the windows NTFS partition from Ubuntu while windows is hibernated, it will cause corruption. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Midnight Commander in 8.10
Felix Miata wrote: How nice for you that you've never had broken X, and never will have, and never will need to help someone else with broken X. So no, I don't think MC _needs_ to be anywhere. Right. You'll never need it, so no one else should have it either. Ever heard of the tyranny of the majority? How exactly is mc vital to fixing a broken X? Your argument seems like complaining that emacs is not installed on the livecd. While it is my favorite editor, I can get by just fine with pico or even vi if I must for rescue/recovery purposes. At the end of the day if you prefer your rescue/recovery cd to have mc on it, then use one that has it. You mention Knoppix, so go ahead and use that if you like it. Remember: the Ubuntu live cd is primarily a demo/install disk rather than a rescue/recovery tool, like Knoppix is. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Midnight Commander in 8.10
On 2008/10/29 16:28 (GMT-0400) Phillip Susi composed: How exactly is mc vital to fixing a broken X? It's vital to fixing broken __, __, __, ___, etc., etc. in generic fashion, and extremely helpful in talking an unfamiliar user through same. Only one tool is required to find, download, upload, edit, backup, etc, and it works with or without working X. When it hasn't been in a default installed, I'll be one less helper to talk someone in need through an unnerving and difficult experience. -- Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to become angry. James 1:19 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Midnight Commander in 8.10
Regarding Midnight Commander (mc): I'm a very heavy user of mc and use it for pretty much anything file related on a day-to-day basis. And once you get used to it and know how to harness its power, you'll never use Nautilus (or any other graphical file manager) again. And I'm not speaking for a minority here, there's plenty of power users out there that use it and can't live without it. But, as far as putting it onto the Live CD, I don't think that's a priority to be honest. I think there's more important files that could be added over mc. And as mentioned already, anyone who uses mc will probably not be using it off a live cd anyway. Just my 2 cents for what it's worth. Regards -- Chris Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Midnight Commander in 8.10
On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 05:01:33PM -0400, Felix Miata wrote: On 2008/10/29 16:28 (GMT-0400) Phillip Susi composed: How exactly is mc vital to fixing a broken X? It's vital to fixing broken __, __, __, ___, etc., etc. in generic fashion (Citation needed) -- Matthew Garrett | [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Midnight Commander in 8.10
On Thu, 2008-10-30 at 03:11 +, Matthew Garrett wrote: On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 05:01:33PM -0400, Felix Miata wrote: On 2008/10/29 16:28 (GMT-0400) Phillip Susi composed: How exactly is mc vital to fixing a broken X? It's vital to fixing broken __, __, __, ___, etc., etc. in generic fashion (Citation needed) http://xkcd.com/285/ FF -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Midnight Commander in 8.10
On 2008/10/30 12:41 (GMT+1000) Chris Jones composed: And as mentioned already, anyone who uses mc will probably not be using it off a live cd anyway. Any time I boot a Knoppix CD it's a virtual certainty that the first thing I do once it finishes booting is start MC. I boot Knoppix to fix things, and MC is my main tool for generic fixing. A live CD without MC is like a tool chest that contains no wrench or socket that fits the most common bolt sizes, and no fitsall wrenches either. -- Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to become angry. James 1:19 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
