Re: alt-tab; need shift-alt-tab too.
Rene, Please open a launchpad bug requesting SHIFT-ALT-TAB as default. Then click Also affects project on that bug and search for the hundredpapercuts project, if that doesn't work just try to click Subscribe someone else and enter djsiegel and explain in a comment that you'd like the bug to be considered as a papercut. Martin Amahdy wrote: I'm not sure but for me under my 9.10 upgraded from 9.04 upgraded from 8.10, it works without changing anything ... -- Amahdy AbdElAziz IT Development Manager 3D Diagnostix Inc. www.3ddx.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/amahdyabdelaziz On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 19:42, Jonathon Fernyhough j.fernyho...@gmail.comwrote: On 29 January 2010 17:36, Amahdy mrjava.java...@gmail.com wrote: In Compiz there is an amazing feature different than alt+tab which iswinkey+tab and in this case winkey+shift+tab also works... This is not enabled by default. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: alt-tab; need shift-alt-tab too.
Rene Veerman wrote: Ok, should i open for compiz + hundredpapercuts? Yes, try booting the LiveCD to verify it's actually a problem with the _default_ configuration. And then use the terminal command ubuntu-bug compiz to open the bug report. Martin On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 7:30 PM, Martin Olsson mn...@minimum.se wrote: Rene, Please open a launchpad bug requesting SHIFT-ALT-TAB as default. Then click Also affects project on that bug and search for the hundredpapercuts project, if that doesn't work just try to click Subscribe someone else and enter djsiegel and explain in a comment that you'd like the bug to be considered as a papercut. Martin Amahdy wrote: I'm not sure but for me under my 9.10 upgraded from 9.04 upgraded from 8.10, it works without changing anything ... -- Amahdy AbdElAziz IT Development Manager 3D Diagnostix Inc. www.3ddx.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/amahdyabdelaziz On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 19:42, Jonathon Fernyhough j.fernyho...@gmail.comwrote: On 29 January 2010 17:36, Amahdy mrjava.java...@gmail.com wrote: In Compiz there is an amazing feature different than alt+tab which iswinkey+tab and in this case winkey+shift+tab also works... This is not enabled by default. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Desktop Effects Reverting to crude X-Server style Grahpics
Sebastian Geiger wrote: For me, plugging in the VGA cable and pressing Fn+F4 screws up the 2nd screen, and then the appearance. The appearance became in a way like crude XServer style grey graphics. Everything is a bit bigger and no I am wondering about which package I would have to file a bug? These symptons occur when gnome-settings-daemon crashes. In fact you can emulate this by just killing the gnome-settings-daemon process. Normally the apport crash reporter is turned off in stable releases but you can enable it using this command: sudo force_start=1 /etc/init.d/apport start It will run until the next time you reboot and it will catch any crashes and prompt you to submit a bug to Launchpad. Once you have apport running, then do that thing with the VGA cable and/or Fn+F4 etc (whatever steps is necessary to trigger the bug) and hopefully the bug gets detected by apport. Martin -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Desktop Effects Reverting to crude X-Server style Grahpics
Martin Olsson wrote: sudo force_start=1 /etc/init.d/apport start Actually I just tried it and it seems that this command has been deprecated in karmic. It prints another upstart related way to start the service but that second command does not work at all on my machine. Martin -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
[karmic regression] all network apps / browsers suffer from multi-second delays by default due to IPv6 DNS lookups
I just wanted to get this bug on the release radar since it's pretty severe (it makes all web browsing very slow for a large group of users). Worst case maybe we can ship about:config with a default of: network.dns.disableIPv6 == true https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/417757 -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Pulse audio
Daniel Chen wrote: Just because ALSA has appeared to be sufficient in the past does not mean that it is, or even will be, sufficient. Saying that ALSA only appeared to be sufficient feels Sound was broken for me in all releases before hardy and then in hardy it worked _perfectly_ with Skype, Flash etc. Sound plackback _and_ recording. Then PulseAudio was introduced and when I upgraded to intrepid alpha I lost audio. It was a test release so I expected it, but it was still broken in final which was sad. I read all the pro-PA arguments and I thought okay so maybe maybe it's a good thing if we'll get better sound for other cards or something (because mine sure worked fine in ALSA). Maybe I didn't had advanced buffering, no network streams and no powersave but honestly I didn't even notice; ALSA did everything I ever wanted from it. Anyway, then came jaunty and it was broken again. Now in karmic alpha I got audio back but I got these extremely load sparks and cracks which give me a really poor audio experience. By now it's obvious that karmic as well with line up along with the releases that did not reach back up to the level where ALSA was for me. I honestly wonder, when will it stop? The bug I filed after upgrading to karmic is here (alsa-info included): https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/443364 I have a _lot_ of respect for the work that the Ubuntu audio team (and Lennart) is doing but the TB decision to accept PA into Ubuntu was a _BIG_ mistake. The appropriate action would have been to talk some sense into upstream. If you search for crackling sound in LP you quickly see that these problems are not related to a few specific cards, it's tons of people suffering through this: https://launchpad.net/+search?field.text=crackling+audiofield.actions.search=Search I was very glad that Canonical posted a job listing for Desktop Architect – Sound Experience recently, clearly someone is noticing this and pulling the right strings. Also, it's not just PA; we've also had the intel gfx driver migration. That was not exactly a walk in the park either, even though it was handled a lot more smoothly than PA. In that case Ubuntu remained on a relatively stable version while upstream was fixing PILES of bugs filed by testers using xorg-edgers etc. If intel had done it the PA way, we would have had a BLACK EMPTY SCREEN in not just 1 _stable_ release but 2 stable releases, and then a flickering screen in the third _stable_ release. I do definitely think following upstream is the only sensible thing to do but not to follow them into an 18 month walk in the valley of death without water. Let's just not do that again, let's try to talk some sense into upstream instead if similar disruptive chaos approaches. Martin -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Here is an easy bug, to learn the basics of Ubuntu packaging
Maybe you know someone who is looking for an easy-to-fix first bug to get started with hacking on ubuntu? Here is such a bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/444750 Here is step-by-step instructions for creating a debdiff bugfix: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/Debdiff Assign the bug to yourself if you intend to fix it to avoid duplicate work. M -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Benchmarking Ubuntu
http://www.phoronix.com/ Their test suite is GPLv3 so you can reuse it! Martin Randy Appleton wrote: I'm a computer science professor considering offering an undergraduate research project. Does anyone know which of the major distributions is fastest? Has anyone timed various operations in Ubuntu vs RedHat vs Suse? I'm curious if it's quicker to log in, find a file, open a document, etc. in Ubuntu, RedHat or Suse? Does anyone already have data on these questions? Or, if we do the benchmarking myself, is anyone interested in the results? Finally, is there some particular operation you'd like to see benchmarked? -Much Thanks -Randy Appleton -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Possible regression in Karmic: valgrind echo foo has problems
Mike Pontillo wrote: Thank you for your response. I can confirm that rebuilding the same version of the valgrind package solves the problem for me as well. Should anything else be done to triage this? Could other packages be lurking in the repository that need to be rebuilt? TWIMC; Valgrind in karmic still lacks suppressions for the _64-bit_ version of libc 2.10 though: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/valgrind/+bug/423485 Martin -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Looking at Package Management for Karmic or Karmic+1
Mackenzie Morgan wrote: If you download and install everything that has 0 dependencies first, then the ones that depend on those things, and on up the tree, it could be doable. Except for cyclical dependencies. For those, you'd need to get both downloaded before running dpkg on them. Downloading everything with 0 dependencies first would be better than today but far from optimal. The algorithm should focus on keeping both the network and the CPU/HDD at the highest possible utilization rate at all times. Another way would be an algorithm that considered the total number of bytes that needs to be downloaded for each package (the DEB itself plus all dependent DEBs) and then start with the one that has the least total size. This way you can start the installation as fast as possible. Martin -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Looking at Package Management for Karmic or Karmic+1
One gigantic improvement would be downloading package deltas instead of whole .DEB files. I don't think this is necessarily that hard to do in a reliable fashion. I assume you already thought about that and it might be out of Ubuntu's scope (i.e. better developed separately and then integrated into Ubuntu once it's stable). Another, much much simpler, feature request I have been thinking about is to make installing updates faster by letting the download and install parts run in parallel. With the current code I first see my network capacity being maxed out with CPU and HDD activity at nearly zero, then network activity stops and the machine starts to tax the CPU and harddrive. Once a package plus it's dependencies are downloaded, I don't see why that package cannot be allowed to start it's installation / upgrade while the rest of the packages are still being downloaded. Martin Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Evan Evan wrote on 31/03/09 23:19: While apt, synaptic, update-manager, and gnome-app-install all do decent jobs of providing front-ends for package management, there are a few issues and common feature requests which bear taking a look at. This is a strawman, so feel free to rip it apart as necessary. In Canonical's Design and User Experience team we've just (this morning) started tackling the issue of package management in general, so your message is excellently timed. Modal Dialogues All three of the GUIs currently use modal dialogues for the actual download/install process, and this is considered a usability issue AFAIK (I'm not a usability expert by any stretch of the imagination, please correct me if I'm wrong). You are quite correct: wherever a program has a modal progress window, it should be showing progress in the parent window instead. (See Thunderbird's Sending Messages and Saving Messages progress windows for more examples of how not to do it.) I believe most people would like to be able to continue browsing available applications, or reading changelogs of updates while the packages are downloading and installing. Well, most people is debatable, but that's not a reason to make it impossible. It will just be a little tricky to implement. PolicyKit Synaptic runs fully as root. Unless there is a specific reason not to, should it not be migrated to PolicyKit? Queuing The ability to start an install process, and then decide to queue another app to install / update after the first is finished. Parallelism Starting the install process in parallel with the download process as soon as the first packages are finished downloading. (I got this idea from brainstorm, but I can no longer find the relevant idea.) All good ideas. I've added them to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppCenter#Desired%20attributes. I'm not sure what we ought to be changing or replacing, but I would think we want to write a replacement for apt as the backend, and a replacement for whatever provides the progress-bar in the GUI? We'd need to get into a lot more design detail before deciding anything as fundamental as whether apt needs replacing. ... The front end would display two progress bars, one for download and one for installation. Hopefully that isn't necessary. I shouldn't see two progress bars for something that, from my point of view, is a single task. It would also display a queue of what's to come (perhaps with little Xs to cancel something if you change your mind). It would be a seperate window in it's own right, It wouldn't be necessary to put the queue in a separate window. It could be a viewable item in the main window, as it is in Miro for example. perhaps with the ability to minize to tray. ... Unlikely. :-) Thanks for your ideas. We'll be discussing this more in the coming weeks, so feel free to post more either here or on the wiki page. Cheers - -- Matthew Paul Thomas http://mpt.net.nz/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAknTeVkACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecq3lQCgv4cvut4GjIrBJxxEv3S/cQcb DQ8AnRpHqD5rJLM+sh7H9kwPtY8N92pt =/hZp -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: removal of logout/shutdown options from the GNOME (was Foundations Team Weekly Summary, 2009-02-25=
(``-_-´´) -- BUGabundo wrote: Olá Robbie e a todos. On Monday 02 March 2009 23:03:06 Robbie Williamson wrote: * Discovered that the removal of logout/shutdown options from the GNOME system menu was a UI decision. After fuming about that for 5 minutes, set about working out the gconf changes needed to re-enable these for accessibility profiles/installs. * Started drafting an email to devel-discuss about the above mentioned UI issue. I don't think even average users will like this much. After audio and updates, that is the 3rd most asked question on #ubuntu+1. Can you have something on Release Notes, if this doesnt get reverted? If they are gone permanently (which I think is fine), then I think FUSA needs to be changed to that one can access it using the keyboard (i.e. if I press ALT-F1 and the right three times then the FUSA menu should be open). Martin -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Alt-SysReq-K in some cases nonfunctional.
Mike Jones wrote: Additionally, Could someone please explain to me what REISUB is? I have never heard this term before, and as I said before, I am a programmer by trade, with better than just basic knowledge about operating systems and such, so I am a bit thrown off. Each letter represents a separate command: http://kember.net/articles/231/reisub-the-gentle-linux-restart For details, open up the Linux kernel source and look at the file: Documentation/sysrq.txt ( for example you can use this URL: http://lxr.linux.no/linux+v2.6.28.5/Documentation/sysrq.txt ) Martin -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Any news on skype+pulseaudio+intel_hda_realtek ?
Scott James Remnant wrote: It's not that simple, in fact I'd go as far to say that we should never adopt new things is a very dangerous position to take. Thanks for posting, James. There were many excellent points in your reply. After reading it, I do agree with you. However, I will probably stop recommending the latest stable release to non-hacker friends though, and tell them to install the latest LTS instead. Martin -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Any news on skype+pulseaudio+intel_hda_realtek ?
Hi Daniel, Thanks for replying. Dan Chen wrote: How can you help? Test the jaunty daily-live images for Ubuntu and Kubuntu for starters. I've booted the jaunty live CD from feb 3rd on this machine now, installed skype and the bug persists there. I've filed all the filed, plus a record alsa-info.sh trace here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bug/325290 With excellent help from Luke Yelavich I was able to understand some of the specifics of this problem but I still can't use the microphone inside Skype (without uninstall pulse). I also found a good thread on the Skype forums where Skype staff comments on this. I'd be more than happy to follow up with any experiments and/or additional information required, if you know something that would be useful just post what's needed in the bug. Martin -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Any news on skype+pulseaudio+intel_hda_realtek ?
When I upgraded my hardy laptop to intrepid I lost audio/mic in Skype: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-plugins/+bug/288269/comments/10 Recently someone posted a comment with some steps that fixed the issue for me: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-plugins/+bug/288269/comments/10 ...for _5 months_ I've had people call me on Skype without being able to answer the call. Instead I had to press the HANG UP button and then send a text based chat message explaining that my microphone didn't work because I upgraded by Ubuntu. Due to all this bad publicity for Ubuntu, the people I usually talk to on Skype won't convert their Windows installs to Ubuntu any time soon, that's for sure :-( PS. I think Lennart is doing a _terrific_ job; I'm hoping Ubuntu technical board understands the need to be careful about merging new stuff to avoid regressions. This experience has been quiet painful for me and I suspect there is other people still out there with PA related regressions. DS. I think it would be a good idea to address this situation for Jaunty by making sure that people who lost audio/mic in hardy-intrepid upgrade will get it back automatically when upgrading to jaunty. Essentially, either pulseaudio has to be fixed so that it works on intel-hda cards with realtek chipset (which is what I got) or pulseaudio needs to be excluded from jaunty (yeah right?). I'm not sure which alternative is easier/cheaper but it sounds like fixing PA is the way forward? Or, fixing the ALSA driver if that is the real issue. This is sort of old news, so has there been any progress on this already maybe? Disclaimer: Yes, Skype is proprietary and that sucks; but due to strong network effects FLOSS is going to have to find a way to deal with this app for some time. There is no point in me installing Ekiga unless it's interoperable with Skype because most of the people I talk to use Skype/win32 (and right now I can't get them to switch). Martin -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Rebuilding a package with debug symbols and no optimization in a _parallel_ fashion?
Hi, Normally when I want to rebuild a package with no-optimizations and full debug symbols I do: mkdir some_pkg ; cd some_pkg ; apt-get source SOME_PACKAGE ; cd SOME_PACKAGE_DIR DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=noopt nostrip fakeroot debian/rules binary sudo dpkg -i ../*.deb This is very useful for debugging etc, but I've noticed one problem. Usually these builds run on a single core. So my question is, is there a flag I can pass along with this command to enable several jobs for make? Ideally, I would like to parallelize all parts of the package generation but if I get only the compilation that alone would be very useful. Regards, Martin -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Command to flush file system cache to prepare for performance testing?
Hi, If grep through all files in a directory twice, then the first time takes a lot longer because the second run will have most of the files available in the in memory file system cache. I want to do some basic performance testing for a scenario involving disk I/O. I'm wondering if there is a command to purge the file system cache, either for a specific directory or file (which would be great) or otherwise purge the whole thing. Basically, to create repeatable perf tests and get consistent results I would like to pin down all the system state so that any changes in numbers will be directly attributable to my code changes. Does anyone know such a command to flush the file system cache? Martin -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Valgrind itself SIGSEGVs on ubuntu x64
Hi,
Pretty much _any_ program that I run through valgrind on x64 boxes cause
memcheck itself to SIGSEGV (valgrind works great on 32-bit afaik).
Would be nice to have this for intrepid because valgrind is instrumental in:
* analyzing other bugs
* quality checking daily builds etc
This bug only happens using ubuntu afaik, the upstream homepage says valgrind
should work well on x64.
I have also found a number of duplicates on this issue:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/valgrind/+bug/162933
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/valgrind/+bug/97531
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/valgrind/+bug/78081
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/valgrind/+bug/278542
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/208120 (non public bug report)
I also noted that my apport bug on this issue was marked as a duplicate of a
non-public bug. This is pretty annoying because
I want add comments etc to this bug so this makes it hard to collaborate on
fixing this bug. Maybe apport should have some kind
of policy that it tries to find a similar public apport bug and use that
instead?
I also noted that there is no -dbgsym package for valgrind itself available in
ddebs (there is also no valgrind-dbg)?
I thought that every single package had a corresponding -dbgsym in ddebs? What
am I missing here?
Finally, I wonder if anyone else on x64 can confirm this bug? When you run a
simple program like the one below, does memcheck itself SIGSEGV?
int main(int argc, char* argv[])
{
int *ptr = 0;
*ptr = 0;
return 0;
}
Martin
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Re: Did we really release 8.04?
Voting could also reduce noise from me too! comments. (On the other hand, there's the risk that the reduction in me too! comments might be outweighed by the increase in this bug has X votes, why hasn't it been fixed? comments.) Sometimes useful information gets buried among tons of me too comments. I think voting would be a nice way to estimate how many people want each bug fixed while also providing a way to increase the signal to avoid ratio (for devs) in the comments. Martin -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Finding the right package for bug 226631
Sometimes totem plays movies in slow motion (especially when I'm playing audio in certain other apps like audacious for instance). I've managed to narrow down the conditions to a very short set of repro steps involving the final hardy live CD. I'm trying to figure out in what package this bug actually is (I reported it to the totem project in launchpad because that's where I see the symptoms but to be honest I'm not 100% sure the bug is in totem). The bug might be in totem, alsa, pulseaudio, audacious or maybe even some other program/library. I'm hitting this bug quite often on my main machine so I'm very interested in creating an accurate bug report on it. Is there anyone out there who could take a look at this bug and tell me what package the bug is in, and also if you've seen this bug before. Also, if there is any other checks/tests I can do in order to provide more information, please just request that info as a comment on the bug (or e-mail me). This is my bug report in Launchpad: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/totem/+bug/226631 Martin -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Is it possible to give the user the option to cancel forkbombs?
Dear kernel hackers, This is a message from below 0x7FFF. Please look at this bug (it's not a new concept but still): https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/163185 I'm no expert but I'd guess the complete freeze part of the bug has to do with the kernel, no? It would be nice to have a system which always lets me choose to abort stuff regardless of what kind of program mess I accidently started. Sort of like how you can always count on CTRL-ALT-DEL to work. Maybe it's possible to set some kind of MAX_PROCESS_COUNT for each user (I don't know) but it looks like this is not done by default in many distros today? I mean, this effectively took down both my laptop and made the server of my shared web hosting company unresponsive for 10 mins (maybe it had some auto-reboot mechanism, I'm not sure). Martin -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Is it possible to give the user the option to cancel forkbombs?
Sorry about that, I checked the has security impact checkbox and that
marked it as private by default. This is a very well known problem
though so keeping secret certainly does not make sense. I have manually
removed the private flag now.
The content of the bug report was as follows:
-
Repro steps:
1. Install gutsy gibbon (or probably any ubuntu)
2. Start a gnome terminal
3. Run this command:
:(){ :|: };:
4. Ubuntu starts to work furiously, after less than a second terminal
gets flooded with low resources message, and within a few seconds the
whole machine breaks down complete to the point where no a single pixel
is updated and the mouse cannot be moved at all. It's not possible to
escape to a ALT-Fn console terminal and CTRL-ALT-DEL does not work.
Okay, so this is not as bad as winnuke.exe because it's not remote but I
just did it on my shared hosting co and their server went down. And I
mean seriously, there should be a way for a user to abort stuff that
hogs resources this type of complete breakdown is NEVER acceptible. I
had to power of the machine and my file system got royally screwed (long
fsck etc).
Some of you might say this is like the oldest trick in the book, yada
yada yada...
Martin
Alan Cox wrote:
On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 21:51:27 -0800
Martin Olsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dear kernel hackers,
This is a message from below 0x7FFF. Please look at this bug (it's
not a new concept but still):
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/163185
It seems to want people to register to view it. I guess Ubuntu should fix
launchpad then we can see the bug report
Alan
-
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Re: Grouping preferences/Administration items?
Milan wrote: At least, there is a logic: Preferences are/should be for user settings, Administration for system-wide, often requiring admin rights settings. Still, there are issues with this classification: the Network Tools are not settings at all, Hardware Information is in preferences (see bug 147152)... For a developer this is is very natural; user prefs vs system-wide. However, I doubt that most non-technical end users will perceive this split as naturally. I know for sure that my mom wouldn't understand why she needs to enter a password to change the clock and no password to change the desktop wallpaper. So, this might very well be one of those things that come very natural to people who understand the code etc but which takes a long time to understand for an actual user. Martin -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: A tricky situation in malone bug 60995
Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: A confirmation alert is usually the worst possible solution to any design problem. People treat it as an interruption rather than as a serious question. (Some horrid Web sites already do this, with JavaScript alerts of the form Are you sure you want to navigate away from this page?) I agree that confirmation is often a really bad solution. This is because of human habituation. Who actually writes rm thesis.txt and then press y to actually do the delete? Everyone writes rm -f thesis.txt and then a split second later they go no. This problem was fixed nicely on Windows using the Recycle Bin concept but on *nix there is no good standard solution yet afaik? Imagine what would happen if someone suddenly checked-in a change to the rm command that removed the -f option, and motivated this change by saying that oh, but people are losing data so we must make it harder to loose data. And typically you have much more data in a file than you have in a form. And to justify this crippled BACKSPACE key you still would have to explain why this is not a problem on Windows (the main platform of ignorant computer users)? Why is it that Firefox on Windows still has this really serious data loss problem? Maybe it's because if someone made a change like this in Firefox on Windows people would be converting back IE en masse. Of course, this is Linux so people don't have a choice (unless they want to go proprietary and use Opera). Because, as long as Windows has BACKSPACE==BACK there will be tons of newbie users coming over that all expect BACKSPACE==BACK. Every single one of them will be *annoyed* and *confused* when they discover this. And if they actually understand that it's intentional, a large majority of these users will be *disappointed* as well. ... There is no dataloss for Web sites that allow caching, but there is dataloss for sites that use HTTPS, such as wiki.ubuntu.com. Yea, I agree that HTTPS/bank sites cannot cache their data. I would prefer to have a dialog in this particular case, just like how there is existing dialogs for stuff like do you want to resubmit your POST data? and so on. Which leaves us with the other option: making accidentally going back harder to do. Alt+Left instead of Backspace achieves this, but it seems to be *too much* harder for some people. The problem is not that Alt+Left is harder, it's that A) people don't know about Alt+Left, and B) people are used to using BACKSPACE. One alternative would be to make [ the shortcut key for Back. It would still be possible to press it by accident when no text field was focused, but much *less likely* than pressing Backspace by accident in the same situation. And it would have another benefit that Backspace does not have: an obvious counterpart key for Forward, ]. This would not fix anything, in fact; to some extent, this type of thinking is the very cause of our problem. Lots of people just randomly come up with new shortcut keys. Then people get used to having them and once these bindings are out there you cannot change them without losing users. The problem with this particular idea (of using [) is that on any non-english keyboard the [ key is really hard to use. On my keyboard I have hold AltGr and then press 8 to type a [. Anyway, my point is that key bindings are like public APIs. Even if they are quite bad you cannot just change them. Microsoft and Windows and long understood this but as Linux starts to get actual users it's important that Linux understands this too (for key bindings). You cannot expect people to relearn stuff. Relearning takes effort and while it might not appear to be a big deal for someone who spends most of their day at a computer; for the casual (normal!) computer user, even small amounts of relearning makes the whole app unusable. Martin -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: A tricky situation in malone bug 60995
Scott Kitterman wrote: On Sunday 21 October 2007 14:08, Martin Olsson wrote: And to justify this crippled BACKSPACE key you still would have to explain why this is not a problem on Windows (the main platform of ignorant computer users)? Why is it that Firefox on Windows still has this really serious data loss problem? Maybe it's because if someone made a change like this in Firefox on Windows people would be converting back IE en masse. Of course, this is Linux so people don't have a choice (unless they want to go proprietary and use Opera). No. The fact that it is a problem is sufficient. To some extent this is a color of the bikeshed (*) kind of issue, so it's important to end it once the most important arguments had been laid out. For my part, I've made all the points I wanted to make around this issue so this will be my last post on this thread before some actual progress is made. A big thanks to all the people that helped clarify the arguments on both sides. I certainly hope that TB will review this issue, but in the end it's their call of course. (*) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikeshed Martin -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
A tricky situation in malone bug 60995
I really really would like to see BACKSPACE as BACK working in Firefox. I think this is the kind of polish bug that makes a lot of people stay away from ubuntu (beyond hardware problems of course). https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/60995 Is there any established process for dealing with this type of situation. The bug is very very old so I think some kind of decision needs to be made on the issue. Maybe some kind of ubuntu board or some benevolent dictator person or someone could arrange some voting or whatever? Martin -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: A tricky situation in malone bug 60995
Nicolas Alvarez wrote: I switched from IE to Firefox for three reasons: 1. Tabs rock 2. Open source rocks 3. Not suddenly finding myself 5 pages back in my history rocks. Maybe you mean that you switched from Windows to Linux for.. because Firefox on Windows has always used BACKSPACE==BACK. Also, I agree that reversability is very important in GUIs (being smart about confirms and providing good undo where it makes sense). I would like to point out that changing the default behavior of the backspace key is very easy for a developer. For instance, here is what they did when they disabled the BACKSPACE button altogether: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=246984 It's even possible to change the behavior at runtime by entering into the about:config page and then setting: browser.backspace_action=0 The main reason why I take this up on this mailing list is because I suspect that the vast *majority* of people that install ubuntu today expect the backspace key in firefox to trigger a back and not a page up (which is the case for gutsy gibbon). And so, I think it's fair to get BACKSPACE=BACK as the default in Ubuntu and then let the BACKSPACE=PAGEUP people use the about:config workaround. I suppose this has a lot to do with who is the intended audience for Ubuntu systems. Is Ubuntu trying to become a leading desktop OS (fixing bug #1) or is ubuntu a desktop for unix people? If Ubuntu is the latter? Maybe CTRL-V should be PAGE DOWN instead of PASTE? I mean *a lot* of Unix old timers use CRTL-Y/CTRL-V for paging up/down. This issue has been extensively discussed upstream in the mozilla bug tracker (with many people on both sides) but they have resolved the bug and they went with the firefox should be unix-style on unix-style systems approach. Since I disagree with this solution, I'm hoping that at least the Ubuntu package could be shipped with BACKSPACE==BACK. Martin -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: A tricky situation in malone bug 60995
Nicolas Alvarez wrote: It's the wrong way to fix it. You can lose data by clicking enter while a link is focused too, should we disable the enter key? The right solution has been mentioned multiple times in multiple places: prompt Are you sure you want to change page and lose what you typed? Yes, exactly. Nobody is arguing *for* data loss, clearly data loss should be avoided (but using another, more intelligent method). I would also like to point you to the follow repro steps: 1. surf to cnn.com 2. surf to google.com 3. enter search query hello 4. press the BACK button in the browser 5. press the FORWARD button in the browser Voilá your search query is still there intact: no data loss! Maybe this was a big problem in previous versions of Firefox but right now, the data loss argument is running very short. Martin -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Compiz and workspace switcher
I've also had a lot of problems with setting a specific number of workspaces while running Compiz. I believe it's an issue being worked on, check out this bug report: https://bugs.launchpad.net/libwnck/+bug/129152 Martin Matthew Larsen wrote: I used to get this strange problem where each of the workspaces would be a seperate compiz cube (ie if I had 4 workspaces I had 12 'screens'). I moved to beryl and the problem went away. Who knows??? Regards, On 07/10/2007, Marius Gedminas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, Oct 07, 2007 at 12:50:27PM +0300, Matthias Andersson wrote: What would it take to get the workspace-switcher to work together nicely? What is your problem, specifically? Compiz works pretty well with the GNOME workspace switcher applet in Gutsy. Or has workspace-switcher become obsolete? I don't think so. Marius Gedminas -- The *REAL* Y2K is the year 2048. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHCPXckVdEXeem148RArxdAJ9qTttIpmfU6oo3k414vjA6kP6pkACfQSCl dN6S6QmDcdwq1M2A2ow06dk= =+9Ke -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Mouse movement quality in Ubuntu
Hi, I always thought the mouse behaved a little weird in Linux. When I would drag-and-sweep select something with the mouse very quickly I would often end up with a selection that was smaller than I intended. Clearly there was some kind latency problem because X.org didn't get the mouse down event until I had already moved the mouse cursor quit a bit. I assume(d) that this was one of many unpolished things that would eventually be corrected. Earlier this week a more experienced Linux user showed me a way to fix this problem. Apparently, if I edit my xorg.conf file and switch the mouse input driver to evdev the mouse becomes extremely snappy and high precision. When I select stuff, exactly what I intended is selected. I love it! This little revelation made me realize that there is probably many people out there who are using Ubuntu with this kind of, not that severe, but still annoying mouse latency problems. Fixing this might be as simple as switching to evdev by default in Ubuntu (even though I admit that I have no idea about the actual difference in scope/purpose of the standard input driver versus the evdev driver). Martin -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Mouse movement quality in Ubuntu
First make sure you have this package installed: xserver-xorg-input-evdev I think your kernel needs to have evdev support to, or at least an evdev module loaded (but my gutsy kernel just worked out of the box). My original mouse configuration (which was really bad with all those latency problems) looked like this: Section InputDevice Identifier Configured Mouse Driver mouse Option CorePointer Option Device/dev/input/mice Option Protocol ImPS/2 Option ZAxisMapping 4 5 Option Emulate3Buttons true EndSection The mouse configuration that I now use instead (the evdev one, which doesn't have any sweep-select latency problems at all) looks like this: Section InputDevice Identifier Configured Mouse Driver evdev Option Device /dev/input/mice EndSection To test this config out, sudo you favorite editor and comment out your old mouse config in /etc/X11/xorg.conf and use the evdev config above. You don't need to reboot for the new settings to come into effect but you must unfortunately start X.org (this simplest way to do this is to press CTRL-ALT-BACKSPACE, I think this restarts gdm). WARNING: While trying out different mouse configurations in xorg.conf I managed to screw up my xorg.conf file like at least 6 or 7 times. This meant that X.org could not start (not even the graphics would work for some weird reason). If you manage you nuke your installation like this, just choose recovery mode in GRUB which will boot you into a console based text interface. From here you can use nano/vi/joe etc to edit the xorg.conf file back into its original state (and then reboot). PS. I have posted bug 144277 in launchpad suggesting that evdev becomes the default mouse driver in Ubuntu: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/144277 Martin Francesco Fumanti wrote: Hello, Thanks for this interesting piece of information. Could you please paste the relevant section of the xorg.conf in a reply to this email, to show what has to be changed? In fact, I tried to do the change, but the X server did not startup correctly anymore. (I am back to the previous settings) Maybe I changed the wrong line in the xorg.conf file? Cheers Francesco At 8:24 PM -0700 9/26/07, Martin Olsson wrote: Hi, I always thought the mouse behaved a little weird in Linux. When I would drag-and-sweep select something with the mouse very quickly I would often end up with a selection that was smaller than I intended. Clearly there was some kind latency problem because X.org didn't get the mouse down event until I had already moved the mouse cursor quit a bit. I assume(d) that this was one of many unpolished things that would eventually be corrected. Earlier this week a more experienced Linux user showed me a way to fix this problem. Apparently, if I edit my xorg.conf file and switch the mouse input driver to evdev the mouse becomes extremely snappy and high precision. When I select stuff, exactly what I intended is selected. I love it! This little revelation made me realize that there is probably many people out there who are using Ubuntu with this kind of, not that severe, but still annoying mouse latency problems. Fixing this might be as simple as switching to evdev by default in Ubuntu (even though I admit that I have no idea about the actual difference in scope/purpose of the standard input driver versus the evdev driver). Martin -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: trackerd in Gutsy
If you google for trackerd, this is the first hit: http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/software/tracker/trackerd.html I thought that was the tracker program running in Ubuntu. Thanks for the clarification. Martin Alan Pope wrote: Hi Martin, On Sun, 2007-09-09 at 13:44 -0700, Martin Olsson wrote: I noticed that trackerd is running by default in Gutsy Tribe 5. Is this information sent to Canonical? trackerd is a daemon that indexes your files so that the tracker applet can find content for you on your computer quickly. What else is trackerd logs used for? See their site for the aims of the project. http://www.gnome.org/projects/tracker/ Cheers, Al. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Important bug for Gutsy
Many laptops come with Vista pre-installed. It would be nice if Ubuntu could be installed to dual-boot with such a Vista installation. Currently, there is this annoying bug which blocks resizing of Vista NTFS partitions and this is making it very hard to install Ubuntu dual-booting in parallel to Vista. The bug itself has been fixed in ntfsresize 1.13.1.1 (gutsy currently ships ntfsresize 1.13.1) so the only thing that is needed is for someone to merge this fixed version into Ubuntu. See this bug report details here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-ntfs/+bug/132022 Martin -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Support for multimedia/internet keyboards
Kevin Fries wrote: I believe you are speaking of the: System-Preferences-Keyboard Shortcuts I agree, the problem is not that the keys don't work at all. Rather, the problem is that for many people there are no keysyms defined for the keys. And Ubuntu has many multimedia keys configured under Keyboard Shortcuts by default, which means that the will, by default, see many hex codes in that dialog. The problem becomes apparent when you look at this screenshot: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/1512466/Screenshot-Keyboard%20Shortcuts.png The link to a bug report is here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/control-center/+bug/25002 Ubuntu could either find a way to 1) create keysyms for these multimedia keys (like windows* and kde), 2) not have keys without as default keyboard shortcuts, 3) keep the existing dialog which shows hexadecimal codes. * I think that in Windows most people have some kind of vendor program running which handles the multimedia keys. These programs could be things like My HP Quick Keys or Logitech Keyboard Key Manager (or whatever). These programs often show up in system tray on Windows, and at least I always found it annoying having to have this extra, often memory hogging, program running for my hardware to work properly. Martin -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
