Re: [Bug 49221] How to solve it, and why I'm not fixing it.

[Sebastien Bacher]

On jeu, 2007-03-01 at 03:54 -0800, Scott Robinson wrote:
> Launchpad #49221 is a high priority bug caused by the 13_smoother_fading
> patch. I will describe the cascade of issues that triggers it. Next, I
> will enumerate some user workarounds. Finally, I will explain why I'm
> not fixing the issue:

Hi,

Thank you for your work on that. Could you comment on the launchpad page
for bug which is actually the right place to describe what the problem
is and to work to fix it?


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Re: Allowing passwordless login via GDM

[Sebastien Bacher]

On lun, 2007-03-05 at 10:41 +0100, Milan wrote:
> So, should I open a feature request ? On launchpad or on gnome.org ?

Rather on  gnome.org, no reason for the feature to be distribution
specific. 

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Re: libgimme and libwps

[Sebastien Bacher]

Le mardi 27 mars 2007 à 13:56 -0700, Matt Zimmerman a écrit :

> I think he was asking why the package is still in the archive if it's
> obsolete, which is a good question.  CCing the maintainer.

It's still in the archive because we didn't clean it up yet, it's on my
list of things to do


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Re: Collection of useless top functions in Apport stack traces

[Sebastien Bacher]

Le jeudi 31 mai 2007 à 15:27 +0200, Martin Pitt a écrit :

> For example, glibc's assert(3) function always leaves an "abort()"
> behind. Firefox's internal crash handler has a raise() and a
> nsProfileLock::FatalSignalHandler() on top of it.
> 
> Since we will use StacktraceTop for identifying duplicates, those
> default functions will impede the precision and lead to wrong
> duplication of crashes, so we need to unwind them for generating
> StacktraceTop.
> 
> If you regularly deal with Apport crash report bugs and saw examples
> of those, please point me to them (to a bug number, for example).

Hey Martin,

The bugzilla.gnome.org seems to be using that for the duplicate finder:

"  my $possible_starts = join('|', ('',
   'killpg',
   'sigaction',
   'sigsuspend',
   '\(gdb\) bt',
   'gnome_init',
   'g_log'));
  my $bad_functions = join('|', ('__kernel_vsyscall',
 'raise',
 'abort'));"

They start counting 5 functions after the "possible_starts" and skip the
"bad_functions" ones


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Re: xdg-user-dirs in the next ubuntu?

[Sebastien Bacher]

Le vendredi 15 juin 2007 à 10:49 +0800, Joel Bryan Juliano a écrit :
> Hi,
> 
> I'm proposing the use of xdg-user-dirs in the next Ubuntu release,
> while I'm not intending to copy OSX or Windows
> for having ~/Music or ~/Movies directory, I just think it's positive
> to have those in the first place to allow them to choose 
> where to organize or put their files.

hi,

The package has been uploaded to gutsy yesterday


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Re: update-db cron job: solving a long-standing issue

[Sebastien Bacher]

Le lundi 17 septembre 2007 à 08:03 +0200, Martin Pitt a écrit :

> I fully agree. Installing *two* search tools by default is too much.
> We probably should not uninstall locate on upgrades, but we should not
> put it into new installations. 

That will break gnome-search-tools (the panel item to search files)
which uses it at the moment. We should probably sort the issues with the
different interfaces before removing it. 


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Re: evince crash

[Sebastien Bacher]

Le mardi 09 octobre 2007 à 14:29 +0200, Vincenzo Ciancia a écrit :

> windows or osx, _they_ will come to me and say it sucks. And, damn, they
> will be right. If you can't print a pdf with the default settings of the
> distribution, how can you propose ubuntu in a scientific environment? I

Maybe you should do some testing sooner next cycle? The bug has been
opened after the rc freeze, the gutsy milestone was not really realistic
from there


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Re: Bug: blurry menu icons with most of gnome-themes

[Sebastien Bacher]

Le dimanche 14 octobre 2007 à 12:55 +0200, Milan a écrit :

> Is everybody here experiencing the same? Does any developer want to
> tackle the ugliest bug I have found in Gutsy? Maybe it can be fixed with
> a few tweaks.

Hi,

As mentioned on the bug already that's not an Ubuntu specific issue and
should be worked upstream. There is no easy workaround known at the
moment but if you know one you are welcome to describe it on the bug


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Re: GetDeb Project

[Sebastien Bacher]

Le mardi 16 octobre 2007 à 11:02 +0100, João Pinto a écrit :
> GetDeb is an user friendly UI to the latest software, that was our
> starting point, I am not sure that after overcoming the current
> technical APT adoption blockers we will be able to merge with
> backports at some point, that will be a policy issue to address later,
> I do not know what is the ubuntu backports team availability  to
> discuss processes and policies, anyway, we are not prepared for that
> yet.

Hi,

Do you have a list of the applications you are shipping for each version
of Ubuntu. Do you do any work to make sure that those updates will not
conflict with any of the Ubuntu changes or break user upgrades to the
next version of the distribution? That would not be the first time non
official packages create issue. Do you think it would be possible to
join efforts with the backport team to provide official backports that
would benefit users, your team and Ubuntu


Sebastien Bacher



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Re: Bug: blurry menu icons with most of gnome-themes

[Sebastien Bacher]

Le mardi 16 octobre 2007 à 18:38 +0200, Milan a écrit :

> Please, could somebody have a look to confirm this? Now it's quite
> late but this fix is *essential*. If there are drawbacks (and I could
> find none), they can hardly be worse than now.

Gutsy is frozen now and new updates will not be accepted, the workaround
doesn't look right and the issue is only a cosmetic one and doesn't
impact the default theme. This could justify a gusty-updates stable
update but it would be better to figure why the icons look blurry and
fix that rather than using a workaround


Sebastien Bacher



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Re: GetDeb Project

[Sebastien Bacher]

Le mardi 16 octobre 2007 à 20:43 +0100, João Pinto a écrit :

> Is the timeline similar ? Are the users motivated ? Do backports reach
> a broad audience ? 

The backports are part of the Ubuntu infrastructure, supported and can
be enabled using the Ubuntu tools

> What is "Properly" for Getdeb, may not be "Properly" for Ubuntu, or
> the way around. 

Right so Ubuntu doesn't encourage users using getdeb because they don't
have the same standards

>  some packages, a few packages just as "Properly" packaged as grabbing
> the source and compiling, however they were created by someone which
> understands how to properly compile linux software. 

That doesn't mean it'll work correctly and doesn't conflict with
official packages


> GetDeb is the only "thing" which provides latest versions and brand
> new software that people need for the "current" Ubuntu version, on a
> user friendly fashion, with screenshots, video links, user comments,
> etc, what is confusing is your continuously comparison between getdeb
> and a plain repository. 
> If you do believe backports at their current state are sufficient,
> than, please promote it, make it appealing for the users and spread
> it. There is so many software to cover, and we are so few.

Why don't you join the official backport team and do this work there
rather than encouraging users to install packages that are likely to
create issues?


> Do you have any evidence to believe that we are harming any system in
> any way may other than for minor QA failures ? (We did corrupt the
> mime cache of a few systems, that was a serious issue) .

No, that's not something we can know from a summary mail, we would need
to look at the packages you are distributing. Do you have a bug tracker
where users can send issue they have using the getdeb versions?


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Re: Bug: blurry menu icons with most of gnome-themes

[Sebastien Bacher]

Le mardi 16 octobre 2007 à 22:03 +0200, Milan a écrit :

> - "cosmetic" may be high priority if we consider that the proper sense
> of the word should be forbidden. The default theme has no problems, but
> gnome-themes are installed *by default* and is simple to use, so it's
> like it was default.  We should expect more than half the users use
> gnome-themes

There is very few bugs or comments about that for the moment though. The
issue is only cosmetic in the sense that's not a security issues or
doesn't impact on what you can do using the distribution

> the release will be: "Ubuntu is not able to guarantee a basic clean
> interface from a version to another." Whatever the new features can be
> in other domains.

The issue is not likely specific to Ubuntu and the upstream theme didn't
switch to 22x22 this cycle, is the issue new in gutsy?


> - why gnome-themes use 22x22 icons when Human uses 24x24? I can't find
> any reason to this, and I don't know whether it was the case in previous
> versions or whether it has changed. 

The correct upstream format is 22x22, the Human theme could use some
work and should be update, the gtkrc has been updated with the 24x24
workaround but that's not the correct way




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Re: Bug: blurry menu icons with most of gnome-themes

[Sebastien Bacher]

Le mardi 16 octobre 2007 à 22:34 +0200, Milan a écrit :

> If nothing has changed and nobody seems to care about this, so maybe
> it's a bug that only occurs on my box, maybe due to a bad upgrade from
> Feisty. Please just tell me if you get the same results when using
> Clearlooks. Is anybody here experiencing the same? I don't want to
> bother all the list with personal issues, I can live with that, but I
> thought it was general and nothing has let me think me it is not the case.

The bug is not due to the configuration, as written that's a GNOME issue



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Re: GetDeb Project (Why I participate)

[Sebastien Bacher]

Le mercredi 17 octobre 2007 à 09:24 -0400, Peter (Ubuntu List) a écrit :

> The main reason why I started creating packages for Getdeb was the fact
> it was so easy to participate. I created an updated package and within
> two days it was up on the site. I tend to create packages I use myself
> or I believe it is a great asset to Ubuntu. This is one of the reason
> you won't see me creating packages for games at the moment.

Hi,

That's a good example of something not easy to backport and I would be
curious to know how you made sure that your pidgin packages was not
breaking other packages using gaim (various gaim plugins,
nautilus-sendto, etc). Did you provide piding variant of those with
dummy transition packages, correct Conflicts informations, updated
Depends? Or did you just shipped the new version without consideration
for those issues?


Sebastien Bacher




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Re: GIMP *final* release for Gutsy?

[Sebastien Bacher]

Le jeudi 08 novembre 2007 à 21:22 -0700, Scott (angrykeyboarder) a
écrit :

> Cool. Leave us with a *major* app (ordinarily in the main repository)
> for months without official support. Sounds like a good plan to me.

The package is support as any main package in Ubuntu, your statement is
just not correct. You can read 
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates about stable updates, you
need a rational about the need, how it affects users and and how it'll
be worked. From the bug tracker bugs there is no indication that Ubuntu
users are having issues with the gutsy version which require the update.
If there is any fix which is required doing a stable update backport of
the patch is also an option there. 


Sebastien Bacher


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Re: Fwd: Mono (Re: New Programs for Hardy?)

[Sebastien Bacher]

On mer, 2007-12-12 at 12:58 -0500, Martin Owens wrote:

> for inclusion. But at the moment these don't exist and we shouldn't be
> looking for these tiny features when we could be including much better
> things on the CD.

Hi,

Could you list some example of those things that would be nice there?

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Re: Fwd: Mono (Re: New Programs for Hardy?)

[Sebastien Bacher]

(could you just send the mail to the list and not to the submitter?)

On mer, 2007-12-12 at 15:27 -0500, Martin Owens wrote:
> > Could you list some example of those things that would be nice there?
> 
> Sure thing: Inkscape, Conduit, opensync, Glipper, firefox-adblock,
> rar-free, more languages, obex, gnome parition editor, audacity,
> gnomebaker, vim (real vim), PGP keys manager, open office draw, any
> kind of irc program, keep backup 2, graphics tablet integrations, any
> kind of webcam management software, cheese, devede, atlantik-gtk,
> compiz manager, start up manager, Storage Manager, schedual, Dohickey.
> 
> I'm sure some of these things will sneak in, but it's not helpful for
> developers to have developed this odd, almost religious fascination
> with including every development library, of every bloated framework
> out there.

Did you try to get those added to Ubuntu? Do you think that they are not
shipped on the CD only because it's lacking space? Everything you list
doesn't seem obvious lack, not having an another IRC client than pidgin
is a choice for example. Could you argue with a rational on why you
think those should be added? Maybe there is a way to add some of those
without having to remove cool applications already installed there


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Re: Proposal: include Brasero by default

[Sebastien Bacher]

On mer, 2008-01-09 at 18:54 -0500, Bryan Haskins wrote:
> Devel discuss is probably the best place for a new idea to develop,
> then someone writes a spec, then it needs a sponsor, and then if it's
> finally decided upon, it could be included as decided.

Hi,

That's not something that should be specified since there is not a lot
to discuss and organize there, that's usually just the distribution team
doing the call after discussing on the ubuntu-devel lists.

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Re: Proposal: include Brasero by default

[Sebastien Bacher]

Le mardi 15 janvier 2008 à 00:08 +0100, Wouter Stomp a écrit :
> On Jan 14, 2008 7:07 PM, Joel Bryan Juliano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > If burning files is much concerned, using Nautilus CD Burner is the
> > easiest way for both advanced
> > and new users.
> 
> Brasero is just as easy, did you try it (especially the latest
> version, 0.7)? Anyway, n-c-b is still included for now.
> 
> > To clear up some preconceptions, Nautilus:
> >
> > 1. does asks the user to blank non-empty CD-RW & DVD-RW's upon writing.
> 
> Yes, but it cannot blank cd's withouth writing to them.

The most common case you blank a CD-RW is to writte something else on
it, there might be some case where users want to clean datas there but
that's rather a corner case and could be done by some other way

> I would not consider features like inhibiting Gnome Power Manager from
> suspending while burning niche, that is something that should just
> work.

That's rather a small bug and likely easy to fix, the software just need
to send a signal over dbus

Sebastien Bacher


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Re: Proposal: include Brasero by default

[Sebastien Bacher]

(no need to copy me on reply I'm subscribed to the list)

Le mardi 15 janvier 2008 à 10:52 +0100, Wouter Stomp a écrit :
> On Jan 15, 2008 12:33 AM, Sebastien Bacher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > That's rather a small bug and likely easy to fix, the software just need
> > to send a signal over dbus
> >
> 
> No matter how easy it is to fix, that is irrelevant when it isn't
> done. There has been an open bug report on that for 18 months.

And next time you find a bug in brasero not fixed yet you will advice
switching to yet another software? 
That's not really a constructive comment. The bug has no duplicate, no
comment since it has been opened and no new subscriber, it doesn't look
like an issue really annoying users and such not a priority to be worked

Sebastien Bacher


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Re: Crashed with signal 5

[Sebastien Bacher]

Le jeudi 31 janvier 2008 à 21:38 +0100, Thomas Novin a écrit :

> Is this known? They must all be related (from a spectators view).

Hi,

That was due to gnome-session and an updated version has been uploaded

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Re: Unneeded System Tools menu

[Sebastien Bacher]

Le lundi 31 mars 2008 à 12:48 +0200, Milan a écrit :
> In Hardy, all applications that don't really manage system-wide or user
> settings were moved from System->Preferences and ->Administration to
> Applications->System Tools.

The change has been decided in a recent desktop team meeting on IRC. The
category is an upstream official one and quite some applications are
using it. We used to do changes to not have it on the default
installation but the system menus have lot of items and the category is
quickly unmasked when installing something using it anyway

We will likely move some other things back there if we continue to use
the category. The comments there are interesting though. Why do you
think it's an issue? Do you find confusing to have the category unmasked
and containing only one item if you install vmware for example?

Sebastien Bacher



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Re: Four crashes, no apport actions

[Sebastien Bacher]

Le mercredi 07 mai 2008 à 18:00 +0200, Martin Pitt a écrit :
> Hi,
> 
> Milan Bouchet-Valat [2008-05-07 17:41 +0200]:
> > Why is it disabled? 
> 
> Because 

hi,

apport also uses quite some ressources which makes your system slow and
make impossible to restart the corresponding application while it's
working which can be a bad user experience

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Re: ConsoleKit (0.2.10) / PolicyKit / Security hole

[Sebastien Bacher]

Le samedi 19 juillet 2008 à 11:26 +0100, Martin Pitt a écrit :
> > Currently, there is no user of the CK Restart/Stop methods (new gdm
> will  
> > use it, which is neither in Debian nor Ubuntu, though).
> 
> Seb is currently fighting with the new gdm, but it is horribly
> incomplete yet, and nowhere near to being a replacement for 2.20. So I
> don't see it going into neither Lenny nor Intrepid.

Hey there,

I took some time to look why the gnome-session restart and halt actions
don't work in intrepid and that turns out it's due to that, the new
gnome-session uses those actions which don't work in ubuntu, the bug is
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/consolekit/+bug/250506 
for reference, anybody having a suggestion on what would the best way to
resolve the issue?

Sebastien Bacher


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Re: Call for testing empathy

[Sebastien Bacher]

Le vendredi 08 août 2008 à 19:23 -0400, steve a écrit :

> hardy here, wanted to see whats up with the package...it works.
> but... one thing... why are backends not installed by default or at
> least a way to do it from gui?  Im not even seeing them in synaptic?  is
> that because im not using development branch?

Hi, 

the hardy version didn't have the correct recommends and recommends were
not installed by default so you will need to install the telepathy
components yourself there

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Re: Call for testing empathy

[Sebastien Bacher]

Le mardi 12 août 2008 à 18:09 +0100, (``-_-´´) -- Fernando a écrit :
> Olá Laurent e a todos.
> 
> I have testing it today.
> For now, 2 small things:
> There no window opening when a new conversation comes (even as an option) and 
> i cant change the name of my accounts.
> Should I file this as bugs?

Hi,

yes, please open bugs about issues you are having


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Re: Call for testing empathy

[Sebastien Bacher]

Le lundi 18 août 2008 à 11:05 -0500, Mario Limonciello a écrit :
> Something else that I haven't seen brought up yet is a migration path
> to empathy.  I've seen indications that it uses a purple backend
> (above), so will all pidgin settings just translate over?

There is no migration required, pidgin will not be removed on upgrade
and will still be used by users who are already running it.

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Re: Data loss with trash in intrepid?

[Sebastien Bacher]

Le jeudi 02 octobre 2008 à 16:51 +0200, Vincenzo Ciancia a écrit :
> I tried this too and it works. My doubts are that on a large folders
> full of files, links with strange permissions and maybe broken links,
> some errors can have occurred. A question: is fuse being used for the
> trash? 

Hi,

You have the directory copy right? Could you try to delete it again, the
gvfs-trash doesn't use fuse no. Did you look into the trash directory on
the disk or in the nautilus trash location?

Sebastien Bacher


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translating the categories in the totem BBC plugin or not?

[Sebastien Bacher]

Hi everybody,

It has been noticed that the current BBC plugin is not translatable and
a patch has been sent on https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/329573

The change add the list of categories to the translatable strings and I
would gather some opinion on whether people think that's a good idea or
not knowing that the media content available is in english. 
On one side having translated categories would look nicer in the
interface on the other side that could mislead people to think the
medias will be in their language.

Cheers,

Sebastien Bacher


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Re: Reproducible w3m bug

[Sebastien Bacher]

Le vendredi 15 mai 2009 à 11:14 +, Sitsofe Wheeler a écrit :
> whether it makes sense for those types of product to be in the Ubuntu
> launchpad
> at all (other than for following upstream issues).

Hi,

It does make sense because we still want to be able to track issues that
should really be considered for the next ubuntu version and security
issues even we don't look at all the other bugs on those components

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Re: Reporting usability problems: please be more tolerant when you triage bugs!

[Sebastien Bacher]

On mer., 2009-07-22 at 18:47 +0200, Vincenzo Ciancia wrote:
> However, it is very easy that a developer does not recognise an 
> usability-related bug report, and confuses it with a more or less 
> strange support request, and I often have to discuss to have it
> accepted 
> as a bug. 

The issue is that Ubuntu doesn't write most of the softwares it
distribute and the current team doesn't have the manpower to work on
those and isn't well placed to decide on behavior changes that should be
done a software they are not writing. Ideally submitters would open
those bugs upstream too and argue directly there.

Cheers,
Sebastien Bacher


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Re: Reporting usability problems, and an example that I'd like you ALL to read

[Sebastien Bacher]

On jeu., 2009-07-23 at 13:40 +0200, Vincenzo Ciancia wrote:

> triggers the response that I am the only one reporting the bug, then 
> it's not affecting all users, hence it's low priority or even not a bug. 
> I think some of you reading will remember such a circumstance recently 
> :) (Perhaps not so) clearly this is wrong. Usability bugs typically 
> affect ALL users, but all of us need to go on and learn how to 
> circumvent those.

Things are often not as clear as you think, read the list of all the
bugs users suggested as hundredpapercut for some example. The way you
use your computer is often different from the one the next user will use
and you will have conflicting opinions (some users think that switching
workspace by scrolling mouse over the applet is efficient some other
that the behavior is confusing, some will want confirmation to actions
some other don't get why the computer should ask confirmation rather
than just respect the user action, etc)

There is several issues there:

- the people working on packages and softwares are often good to do
technical work but not so good when it comes to take decisions on
usability or design
- the usability issues reported often turn to long arguments between
users not agreeing on the change and those issues are in the middle of
clear technical bugs, it's difficult for usability people to list the
usability concern and reciprocally a high number of usability suggestion
makes the list of technical bugs harder to work with since you have to
find a way to filter those you have no interest in
- the distribution maintainers are not written most of the software
distributed and don't always feel entitled to take design decision on
the software without having it discussed with the upstream authors, they
also don't always want to take the suggestion upstream because they have
no strong opinion on the topic and don't feel they will argue for the
change in a convincing way there

That said we should perhaps have a different location where those
suggestions can be discussed and moved to the bug tracker once a clear
design change is approved (ie rather than adding ubuntu tasks to each
hundredpapercut next time only add one for things which have been set to
triaged and have clear suggestions which have been reviewed)

> upstream. Guess what? Nobody cared to reply. I don't know if my comment 
> triggered any attention but clearly this issue is not considered 
> interesting enough to post a reply, even if it's present in ALL the 
> ubuntu installation. That's 100% of the users.

Did you consider that only few people are working on this software
during their after work hours and they can't just managed to deal with
the flood of issues and suggestions sent their way?

The issue there is no that "nobody cared" or that "the issue is no
considered interesting enough", it's just than there is hundred of bugs
open on this component and not enough people working on it to handle
those correctly. 
Note also that bumping settings for bugs will not make a difference in
the fact that the limitation is simply due to a lack on manpower to work
on those.

You seem to argue in favor of welcoming higher number of suggestions and
bug reports, that's good but how does it solve this workload issue? What
is the use of having thousand of good suggestion if nobody is working on
making those happen and the quantity is just discourage the few volunter
to have a look to the list because they know they can't deal with all
those? Wouldn't it make sense to have a lower number of suggestions but
focused on what would really make a difference in the user experience, a
list that would be manageable for people doing the changes?


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Re: The google custom search - perhaps it went there by itself?

[Sebastien Bacher]

On sam., 2009-07-25 at 16:45 +0200, Vincenzo Ciancia wrote:
> 1) on this list, nobody knows the answer. I think this is likely.
> Then, 
> the custom search should be removed from firefox. Nobody knows why it
> is 
> there. 

You seem to jump to a weird conclusion, because busy maintainers don't
read your emails on a noisy discuss list you advice to drop changes?
Wouldn't it make sense to rather try contacting the maintainer or the
ubuntu mozilla team about the issue or to open a bug on launchpad so you
can get a reply from the people doing the changes?

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Re: The google custom search - perhaps it went there by itself?

[Sebastien Bacher]

(could you stop private copying me and reply on the list?)

On lun., 2009-07-27 at 12:16 +0200, Vincenzo Ciancia wrote:
> Sebastian: did you notice another message that has been there for one 
> year? 

How does that change the fact that the people you want to reach might
not be reading the list you are posting to now?

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Re: Apport Hooks Task Force

[Sebastien Bacher]

Le dimanche 20 septembre 2009 à 16:00 +0200, Sense Hofstede a écrit :
> The idea is to create an 'apport-hook' tag, report bugs against all
> packages (that don't have a hook yet) 

Hi,

The goal should not be to have a hook for every single package but
rather to add informations where they are useful, please don't start
opening bugs everywhere without a good reason

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Re: Pulse audio

[Sebastien Bacher]

Le jeudi 08 octobre 2009 à 14:14 +0200, Vincenzo Ciancia a écrit :
> Ubuntu did not show particular interest in any of the above
> policies. Typically, the new software replaces the old one, period.

It's simply not true. GNOME 2.26 (ie jaunty cycle) enforced the
pulseaudio requirement and we did distro change several GNOME components
to not force that upon our users. The thing is that spending efforts to
go against upstream is a waste of energy since:

- those efforts are not spent fixing issues
- you don't benefit from upstream changes
- you don't work with upstream to improve things and create your own set
of issues nobody will be wanting to look at for you

We did follow upstream this cycle because now is about time to follow
upstream and get things sorted if we want ubuntu to be good for the next
lts, using old years versions just don't work, you stay on the same bugs
and don't benefit from new technologies, work from other people, over
time it also break extra softwares which rely on things you refuse to
use, etc



>  See
> e.g. the shiny new IM software that will replace the old one, and
> karmic
> users will love. The only advantage that it should offer is voice and
> video calls. I never succeded in having it work for voice/video. And
> it
> is so badly broken in other areas 

Could you give details on how it's broken for you? We did the technology
change this cycle to be ready for the lts version. You seem to miss one
of the reason which motivated the change which is the telepathy stack
which will allow better desktop integration (sharing screen over vnc is
one thing ready this cycle, next versions should allow you to share
things like your music with your im contacts too for example). Note that
upgraders are not migrated and pidgin is still available for those who
install karmic and want to use it. The user feedback showed some issues
but that things are mostly working for most users too.

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Re: cancel the 9.10 release... it is not ready

[Sebastien Bacher]

Le lundi 26 octobre 2009 à 14:07 +0100, Markus Hitter a écrit :
> requires me to go to the keyboard  
> manager after each reboot before I can make use of the keyboard. 

Hi,

The bug is low because it's the first ticket about the issue and is
rather due to local configuration than a bug which will be an issue on a
default installation or for most users

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Re: Solang or Shotwell vs. F-Spot for Lucid

[Sebastien Bacher]

Le lundi 07 décembre 2009 à 21:24 -0500, Danny Piccirillo a écrit :
> Before too much effort is invested into making F-Spot good enough to
> meet all of the needs outlined at the UDS Default App Selection
> session, i thought i should bring up Solang and Shotwell to see if it
> might be worth including instead of F-Spot in Lucid, or if it's too
> late, in Lucid +1. 

Hi,

Thank you for raising the topic. What effort are you speaking about
exactly there though? The only change we needed was the edit options to
be available in view mode basically and upstream already fixed that one.

> GTumb has been discussed, but it doesn't seem to deliver the goods.

Why not? Somebody pointed recently a post about gthumb, the code has
been refactored recently apparently and the new version looks quite good

>  Solang is new, yet it's developed quickly and is showing a lot of
> promise. Shotwell might also be a contender worth discussing, but i am
> unfamiliar with it. Hopefully someone else has some insights as to how
> Shotwell compares to Solang and F-Spot. 

We have something not perfect right now but working ok for common use,
it seems risky to want to change to some new codebase in a lts cycle
especially when we don't know how reliable upstream is and when those
softwares have not been exposed to real user testing and feedback yet.

>   * A major issue with F-Spot that Solang doesn't have is that you
> have to move images to import them into the library. 

Do you? The import dialog has a checkbox about copy that you can uncheck

>   * F-Spot is much more resource intensive than Solang

Do you have numbers on that?

> Solang, Shotwell, and F-Spot are all fine image managers/organizers,
> but the current plan is to work on F-Spot to get it to meet the
> following needs: 
>   * Quickly viewing images by folder [currently handled by EOG]
>   * Solang and F-Spot both have view-modes but still
> require importing the image. Shotwell might not. 

No, the f-spot --view mode doesn't require to import anything...

>   * Editing images without importing (Shotwell does this)
>   * Rotating [currently handled by EOG]
>   * Red-eye removal [currently handled by GIMP]
>   * Cropping [currently handled by GIMP]

those are done by f-spot as well

> Although the interface has been cleaned up, it just feels heavy. 

The comment there is about the user interface or the opening speed,
reactivity to actions, ...?

> It's worth reconsidering how much work should be put in to F-Spot when
> other projects seem to be progressing faster. If this much work is
> going to be invested as it is, we should consider whether it might be
> better to focus on Solang instead. Shotwell might already meet many of
> these needs, and need significantly less work. 

We don't put too many efforts in f-spot, the work is done mostly by
upstream and the packaging is done mostly by Debian, we just try to
issues reported on launchpad and work with upstream on the ones we
consider worth trying to fix for the next version.

Where did you get that the other projects are moving faster too? They
might have extra work to put to catch up with what f-spot does now. The
timeline view is rather nice to use and f-spot has quite some other
options. 

Did anybody looked at how those other software handle exporting to
flick, picasa or other web services?

> Please look into both Solang and Shotwell and post your thoughts. 
> Thanks! 

I will let other people comment on those, but changing a known codebase
for new project in a lts cycle doesn't seem a good move from there



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Re: Evolution & Ubuntu 10.04 LTS

[Sebastien Bacher]

Le vendredi 05 mars 2010 à 08:41 -0500, Paul Smith a écrit :
> Does Ubuntu really want to get stuck with broken
> Evo for the entirety of the LTS? 

Hi,

The current version of evolution is not broken and probably not over an
unstable version which got some much rewrital and so few testing. Glad
that it works for you it doesn't mean that everything is bugless.
The Ubuntu team decided to stay a known version because jumping on a
rewrite not done yet would be risky and would requiring having
ressourcing working chasing bugs and updates for that new version.
You can also note that the next RHEL version will use 2.28 and that
Debian might be doing so in their coming stable, it means this version
will keep being stabilized and worked. The new version will probably be
distributed in some ppa for those who feel the need to upgrade though.

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Re: Evolution & Ubuntu 10.04 LTS

[Sebastien Bacher]

Le vendredi 05 mars 2010 à 08:41 -0500, Paul Smith a écrit :
> However, I don't see any problems and I've been building Evo 2.29.x
> from the latest git source every few days and using it "in anger" on
> all of my systems for daily email (and I get/send a LOT of email),
> with both IMAP and MAPI, for the last 3 months or so.  It works MUCH
> better than 2.28. 

(Replying to this email since the reply was not only on the listed and
landed in a box where I deleted it)

> Sorry, but that's wrong: 2.28 is unquestionably broken.

Let's say not everybody shares your view on that but put in context you
rather seem to suggest that mapi in 2.28 is broken right?

> The Exchange MAPI support simply does not work, except maybe for the
> most trivial cases.  Color me unimpressed with statements to the
> contrary

Nobody stated the contrary. The evolution-mapi version 2.29 probably
works much better seeing the issues which have been raised on 2.28 but
evolution-mapi is neither installed by default in Ubuntu nor officially
supported and we can't trade the stability of the default email client
for the vast majority of users for better exchange support. 

> Have the Ubuntu devs actually tried using the new version?  Have they
> run into problems?  Has anyone on the Ubuntu team contacted the Evo
> developer's lists to ask their opinion and discuss the stability with
> other users of 2.29.x?

No we didn't try 2.29, it has been decided in the start at UDS that we
would stay on the stable version. We do talked to upstream regularly
though, join often their weekly meeting and chat on their IRC channel.
Nobody in the upstream team discussed our decisions and most of the
upstream hackers agreed that evolution is not a trivial piece of code
and that stabilizing the new version which all the infrastructure
changes will be challenging and leading probably to a 2.30 version which
will need some work still. 

Ubuntu has been bitten by upgrading to new versions which were rewritten
in the past and we have learnt, the decision has been made to stay on a
version which is not perfect but that we know about rather running to
use a rewrite in the risk of being stucked with something not ready
quality and feature wise for a lts. Note also that tracking such a
rewrite requires to commit ressources to track the updates, refactore
the packaging, track the bug and work with upstream to make sure those
get fixed on a regular basis and that the current Ubuntu team is quite
busy already so we prefer to dedicate ressources to improve what we have
now.

> Is the decision based on anything more concrete than reading the
roadmap?

Yes, on experience from people packaging this software for years and
tracking its bug, on discussion with the community at UDS and on
discussions with the people writting the software. 
None of those feeling comfortable saying that 2.30 will be for sure
stable enough to be used in distribution where users expect stability
rather than the newest versions.

There is no perfect solution and either ways some users will be unhappy,
if your real issue is the mapi support why don't we try to see what we
can do about this one? And in any case there will be most likely a ppa
which will have evolution 2.30 builds for lucid that you will be able to
use if you want to try that version or a better mapi support.

> Let's be honest.  No one is going to follow the RHEL packaging of Gnome
> 2.28 and be porting Evolution fixes into the Ubuntu repository.  Ditto
> for Debian.  And certainly the Gnome devs won't be making new releases

On what do you base those comments? In fact upstream just roll 2.28.3
less than a week ago and agreed to keep commiting changes to gnome-2-28
git when it makes sense to make collaboration between the distributions
which will stay on those versions for a while easier. We do often look
to fixes from other distributions too and lts versions do get new
versions of GNOME usually too.

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Re: Brainstorming for UDS-P

[Sebastien Bacher]

Le vendredi 23 septembre 2011 à 21:56 +0100, Allison Randal a écrit :
> Hi all,
> 
> While we're all in the final preparations for Oneiric, it's round about
> that time in the cycle to start thinking about plans for the next cycle.
> What's on your mind?
> 
> Allison

Hey Allison,

Some desktopish suggestions:

- No new features, we need to stabilize and polish what we got
- Bugs fixing
- Boot and desktop performances (boot time, memory usage, power
consumption)
- Improve the GNOME3 integration (what do we do with the screensaver? Do
we use the upstream control center printer configuration dialog? the
region one instead of language selector? etc)
- Improve our "user accounts" experience, we have the upstream online
account, softwares providing their own dialogs, ubuntuone...
- Screen locking
- Do we need a calendar solution in the default installation?
- We should review the configuration options dropped in the GNOME3
transition and see which ones we think should still be in Ubuntu
- Did I mention that we need to fix bugs? ;-)

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RE: Proposal to delay release of Precise Pangolin

[Sebastien Bacher]

Le mercredi 19 octobre 2011 à 16:43 +0200, Rodrigo Moya a écrit :
> Usually, the x.x.1 release of GNOME is much better, since it includes
> lots of fixes for lots of issues as people start using the final
> stable release in their distros. 

To be fair we always had our schedule adapted to include .1 until 10.10,
then the schedule got shifted to accomodate 10.10.10 and stayed shifted,
we should probably revisit and go back to what we were doing...

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Re: help compiling unity.

[Sebastien Bacher]

Le 07/11/2011 14:42, staticd a écrit :

Sorry to bug you guys with the noob question, but

I've been trying to compile unity from source.(Oneiric, 64bit)

Hi,

You can find details on the wiki:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity

One of the topic on this page is "Building Unity from Source 
<https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/InstallationGuideFromSource>" but you 
also have other useful informations there


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Re: Unity and Classic

[Sebastien Bacher]

Le 01/12/2011 12:12, Carlos Havel a écrit :
There seems to be a 50/50 tide up about Unity and Classic. ¿Wouldn't 
it be possible split the issues among both? Let's say,  april releases 
with classic menu and october releases with unity?

Otherwise, Ubuntu is going to loose half of it's users.(I among them).

Hi,

What do you mean? If what you mean "Classic" is gnome-panel the package 
is available in all versions of Ubuntu and you can keep using it, nobody 
is forced to use the default desktop, it takes less than a minutes to 
install gnome-session-fallback, logout and log in with it selected


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Re: An idea/feature request for incorporating a "Classic" menu into Unity

[Sebastien Bacher]

Le 01/12/2011 04:02, Ray Perigo a écrit :
There seems to be much griping going about regarding Unity, in 
particular the lack of a "classic" menu - admittedly, I'm one of those 
gripers. I see no reason why a simple applications (a-la GNOME 2.x) 
menu can't be added as a right-click function on the Dash button. This 
sort of menu is a must-have for a lot of users, and this sort of 
implementation would allow it to coexist peacefully with the Dash/Lenses. 

Hi,

You can probably install easily something doing that, see for example 
http://www.webupd8.org/2011/06/use-classic-menu-in-unity-classicmenu.html


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Re: An idea/feature request for incorporating a "Classic" menu into Unity

[Sebastien Bacher]

Le 01/12/2011 09:14, Mayank Rungta a écrit :
I am not sure if this is the right forum but since this topic has been 
touched I wanted to know how well the unity interface has been 
received. I see a lot of posts on returning to the classic gnome. It 
appears that there are just too many people out there missing the 
classic features.
Unity has been received well by some users and less well by some others, 
you mostly read about the unhappy ones on the internet for several 
reasons (one being that happy users usually don't feel the need to start 
discussions about what is working fine for them, another ones is that 
the people who are interested in participating to online discussions 
about their computers are also the ones who like to be able to tweak 
things and the one that will got unhappy about lack of customization).


Basic things like Alt Tab behave very differently killing the purpose 
of virtual desktops (grouping as you roll through all the windows) and 
grouping of similar windows again is a problem as I would have a 
particular type of application (say Thunderbird) on the same Desktop. 
I can't wait for Alt Tab expand - the older method was so much simpler 
and faster. Any particular reason to change it? 


No reason, in fact the switcher will be working "by workspace" in the 
next version so that should address your issue.


I can't customize any of the panels - can't add shortcuts to panels, 
resize them, add panels, etc. The worst part is a lot of these things 
I am not even able to revert back to. Why is the new interface so rigid?
Because adding options and customability takes time and efforts and 
makes the code harder to maintain and get working (you have complexity 
and cases to test every time you give an option), it's also not 
something most users care about tweaking (look at windows users or macos 
ones to see how many want to tweak their "panel and applets", most users 
are just fine with the default layout). Nobody forces you to use unity, 
if that sort of customization is important to you, you can try xfce or 
kde or gnome-panel for example.


I am myself moving to StumpWM now to make things easier for myself - 
at least predictable at a much better performance. A colleague is even 
contemplating creating a light weight desktop based on StumpWM with 
basic things in place as it is so much faster. Haven't tried xmonad 
yet. At least StumpWM gives a good mix of using mouse and keyboard. 
But for my newbie friends I was hoping the current interface was 
simpler or behaved like the conventional desktop.


Great that you find something that works for you!

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Re: Re2: An idea about unity and classic stuff

[Sebastien Bacher]

Le 01/12/2011 11:08, David Gao a écrit :

Well, I like unity, but I still think it good to add some classic elements. I 
think we at least need a classic menu, and some panels. Unity has a great 
launcher, which reduces my clicks a lot. The lens just mix everything together, 
and can be a great problem when I have plenty of music and applications stored 
on my computer. I have to always search. I wonder if we could have something 
like folders in our lens, and do not have to always show everything in the 
category.

Hi,

Great that you like unity ;-) If you prefer a "classic menu", you can 
easily install softwares that provide one (see one of my previous emails 
on this list and topic). Why do you feel you need "some panels"? What is 
missing from the unity one for you? If you have lot of datas searching 
will always be easier than trying to figure an organization scheme that 
works, especially that different users have different way of working and 
would want the same thing from the interface.
Did you try to use the lenses for a while? Browsing applications in the 
applications lens should be similar to using menus, it lists the same 
content, has the same categories, they are just displayed as filters 
rather than submenus.


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Re: Unity and Classic

[Sebastien Bacher]

Le 01/12/2011 17:11, Matt Alexander a écrit :


I don't like it because I can't find the most common apps anymore.  I 
used to be able to navigate through the Applications menu using 
general categories like Graphics, Games, Sound & Video, etc.


Is the issue there only the number of click to display the application 
lens with the installed applications not reduced to the default 1 line 
and with the filters on the side? This cycle Unity should make it things 
a bit easier there by:
- letting you add lenses icons directly to the launcher, if you access 
often the application one you could get it there

- remember some of the dash settings cross sessions

Would you be happy with the application lens if it opened directly from 
the launcher with filters already on screen and the list unfolded for you?


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Re: login window functionality request - gdm?

[Sebastien Bacher]

Le 17/11/2011 21:02, David O. Rowell a écrit :

I can appreciate that GDM (or whatever) doesn't have access to the
user's preferences.  Would it hurt anything if both buttons were
allowed? There isn't any conflicting action that I can see.

Hi,

What version of Ubuntu and login manager do you use? gdm used to react 
on both mouse buttons I think (well at least the version before the 
rewrite did), that seems a reasonable feature request for lightdm as 
well, you should open a bug about it on 
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+filebug


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Re: How to install Precise without getting screwed?

[Sebastien Bacher]

Le 11/04/2012 09:39, Dane Mutters a écrit :
It seems to have been optimized for netbooks, and as such, lacks much 
of what desktop (and large laptop) users find essential and/or 
appropriate. 

Hi,

That's simply not true, unity works great on a big screen (using a 24" 
screen here), it gives out most of the space for your work, has 
excellent keyboard navigation (now with the HUD you can as well access 
the menus without having to move the mouse at all) and the launcher and 
dash are friendly to mouse users as well.


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Re: How to install Precise without getting screwed?

[Sebastien Bacher]

Le 11/04/2012 21:21, Dale Amon a écrit :

If Ubuntu wishes to
gain market share, then it must meet customer needs and
not cause undue havoc with the operations of companies
all over the world.
Well, that's why Ubuntu has LTS versions and extended support to 5 years 
for this one, so people who need stability can plan migration on a 5 
years period, you still have to deal with changes but that's true for 
most OSes.


You also assume that
- what you used before was "meet(ing) customer needs" better than Unity, 
it might be true for you or your customer, it doesn't mean your case is 
the most common one in the world
- companies care much about the desktop "chrome"...often they don't, 
they care about the services and softwares they run, performances, stability
- that choise is taken away from you, it's not, Unity got added, 
gnome-shell got added, still gnome-panel (gnome classic) is still 
available are xubuntu, kubuntu, etc.


Nothing also stop you to run lucid for another year if you are happy 
with it, it's still supported, and maybe revisit options then...


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Sebastien Bacher

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Re: What package does this bug affect?

[Sebastien Bacher]

Le 12/06/2012 20:22, Chris Wilson a écrit :
Could someone please help me figure out what package this bug 
 affects?

Hi,

It's indicator-session if you are using unity

cheers
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