Re: cancel the 9.10 release... it is not ready

[Shentino]

I just received the free CD package I ordered awhile ago.  And...

I don't know what happened, it looks very bland inside.  None of the
familiar red/orange/yellowness ubuntueyness.  It's just black text on white
background, no border, looks almost like what you'd expect at the back end
of a user manual where they put the warranty.

The front picture is a yellow background with just 9.10 in 2 places and
Ubuntu Desktop written on it.  For some reason I didn't get much of an
"ubuntuey" feel from it.  The package also felt a little flimsy and there
was even some shipping-induced deformation in the paper.  This could be due
to cost-cutting measures though, as I recently read in slashdot that
Canonical is having budget problems with its "ship-it" program.

That is my honest criticism.

Naturally of course I commend all the volunteers that surely put forth a
fine effort.  Without them I'd be forced to eat Windows...and being on a
shoestring budget as it is I was barely able to afford the $275 I spent
getting and putting together a new computer.  Yes, I just built it from
parts I got from newegg :).  So on an absolute scale I'm not terribly
displeased with ubuntu overall.

Anyway, I hope that my feedback, and probably a post-mortem of what went
wrong with Karmic's release, will be beneficial to future versions.

On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 12:40 AM, Natanael Olaiz  wrote:

> El 11/11/2009 10:37 PM, Derek Broughton escribió:
> > Natanael Olaiz wrote
> >> El 11/11/2009 08:32 PM, Derek Broughton escribió:
> >>
> >>> Natanael Olaiz wrote:
> >>>
>  Another thing: many shortcuts doesn't work anymore. Even configuring
>  them by hand!! For instance: screenshots, knotes, etc...
> 
> >>> "knotes"?  So you're presumably using Kubuntu: most of those shortcuts
> >>> got broken with the upgrade to KDE4 - LONG before 9.10.
> >>>
> >> Yes, I wrote I installed Kubuntu. And yes, I was using Hardy with KDE
> 3.5.
> >> But even setting the shortcuts from the KDE settings control doesn't
> >> work:  http://picpaste.com/screenshot_shortcuts.jpg
> >> This also happened in previous versions of Kubuntu with KDE 4?
> >>
> > Shortcuts, particularly in embedded kparts, have been a pain in the butt
> > with every release that included KDE 4.  Welcome to KDE4.
> >
> :-/
>
> (that was one of the reasons because I waited so much to upgrade from
> Hardy: I loved KDE 3.5)
>
> Anyway, thanks for your reply. :-)
>
>
> Best regards,
> Natanael.
>
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Re: cancel the 9.10 release... it is not ready

[Natanael Olaiz]

El 11/11/2009 10:37 PM, Derek Broughton escribió:
> Natanael Olaiz wrote
>> El 11/11/2009 08:32 PM, Derek Broughton escribió:
>> 
>>> Natanael Olaiz wrote:
>>>   
 Another thing: many shortcuts doesn't work anymore. Even configuring
 them by hand!! For instance: screenshots, knotes, etc...
 
>>> "knotes"?  So you're presumably using Kubuntu: most of those shortcuts
>>> got broken with the upgrade to KDE4 - LONG before 9.10.
>>>   
>> Yes, I wrote I installed Kubuntu. And yes, I was using Hardy with KDE 3.5.
>> But even setting the shortcuts from the KDE settings control doesn't
>> work:  http://picpaste.com/screenshot_shortcuts.jpg
>> This also happened in previous versions of Kubuntu with KDE 4?
>> 
> Shortcuts, particularly in embedded kparts, have been a pain in the butt 
> with every release that included KDE 4.  Welcome to KDE4.
>   
:-/

(that was one of the reasons because I waited so much to upgrade from 
Hardy: I loved KDE 3.5)

Anyway, thanks for your reply. :-)


Best regards,
Natanael.

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Re: cancel the 9.10 release... it is not ready

[Derek Broughton]

Natanael Olaiz wrote:

> El 11/11/2009 08:32 PM, Derek Broughton escribió:
>> Natanael Olaiz wrote:
>>
>>   
>>> Another thing: many shortcuts doesn't work anymore. Even configuring
>>> them by hand!! For instance: screenshots, knotes, etc...
>>> 
>>
>> "knotes"?  So you're presumably using Kubuntu: most of those shortcuts
>> got broken with the upgrade to KDE4 - LONG before 9.10.
>>   
> 
> Yes, I wrote I installed Kubuntu. And yes, I was using Hardy with KDE 3.5.
> But even setting the shortcuts from the KDE settings control doesn't
> work:  http://picpaste.com/screenshot_shortcuts.jpg
> This also happened in previous versions of Kubuntu with KDE 4?

Shortcuts, particularly in embedded kparts, have been a pain in the butt 
with every release that included KDE 4.  Welcome to KDE4.
-- 
derek


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Re: cancel the 9.10 release... it is not ready

[Natanael Olaiz]

El 11/11/2009 08:32 PM, Derek Broughton escribió:
> Natanael Olaiz wrote:
>
>   
>> Another thing: many shortcuts doesn't work anymore. Even configuring
>> them by hand!! For instance: screenshots, knotes, etc...
>> 
>
> "knotes"?  So you're presumably using Kubuntu: most of those shortcuts got 
> broken with the upgrade to KDE4 - LONG before 9.10.
>   

Yes, I wrote I installed Kubuntu. And yes, I was using Hardy with KDE 3.5.
But even setting the shortcuts from the KDE settings control doesn't 
work:  http://picpaste.com/screenshot_shortcuts.jpg
This also happened in previous versions of Kubuntu with KDE 4?


Best regards,
Natanael.

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Re: cancel the 9.10 release... it is not ready

[Derek Broughton]

Natanael Olaiz wrote:

> Another thing: many shortcuts doesn't work anymore. Even configuring
> them by hand!! For instance: screenshots, knotes, etc...

"knotes"?  So you're presumably using Kubuntu: most of those shortcuts got 
broken with the upgrade to KDE4 - LONG before 9.10.
-- 
derek


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Re: cancel the 9.10 release... it is not ready

[Natanael Olaiz]

Another thing: many shortcuts doesn't work anymore. Even configuring 
them by hand!! For instance: screenshots, knotes, etc...

El 11/10/2009 09:06 AM, Natanael Olaiz escribió:
> El 11/09/2009 01:03 PM, Mohammed Bassit escribió:
>>> El 10/26/2009 12:28 PM, Mohammed Bassit escribió:
>>>
 [...]
  
> I really like to persuade people to use ubuntu. But as long
> as it looks unready it will strengthen their opinion, that linux
> is only for nerds. Pleas learn your lesson from the debian
> community and release a new version only if its ready.
>
> 
 You are free to use Debian !

   
>>> After being migrated from Jaunty to Karmic in three machines (one at 
>>> work, one mine, and one of a friend), specially seeing that all that 
>>> works in Jaunty (wireless, ethernet, sound!) stop working in 
>>> Karmic 
>>
>> Can you give us more details about what went wrong with your network and
>> sound ? was it working in Jaunty out of the box ? did it just break once
>> you upgraded to Karmic ?
>>
>> And those three machines you're talking about, do they have similar
>> network and sound cards ? are all three of them from the same make and
>> model ?
>>   
>
> OK, sorry for my short previous message. I'll explain a little more here:
>
> The three machines have different configurations. One desktop, and two 
> different notebooks.
>
> I installed from scratch Kubuntu (in fact Ubuntu, and then installed 
> the kde/kubuntu packages) in the Desktop and one of the notebooks, and 
> upgraded from Jaunty in the other (my friend) notebook.
>
> Results
>- In the desktop PC Karmic works pretty good in general, but there 
> are a lot of times that I can't close the programs.
>- In my notebook, I had problems with wireless (I couldn't 
> configure a hidden SSID) and the knetworkmanager doesn't allow to 
> connect a specific network (the click doesn't work). I also have 
> problems with audio. Each application that uses it makes an annoying 
> click each time I open or close, sometimes the audio isn't working at 
> all, sometimes working until suddenly it stops. The pulseaudio backend 
> (in gstreamer or xine, both) doesn't work, and I can't configure the 
> skype to work. I had hardy before, and all worked perfectly. Some 
> programs doesn't close.
>- In my friend notebook she have the same troubles with audio and 
> wireless, and the kernel doesn't support it wired network card (I had 
> to compile an external module -but that happens also in Jaunty...-). 
> The PC doesn't shutdown at all, and any power key works after the 
> upgrade (to suspend/etc). Some programs doesn't close.
>
> To me is annoying that kind of problems, but as I work with linux, I 
> need new libraries versions, and I know it (I know how to shutdown 
> from a console, for instance) I still use it... But my friend is just 
> a new linux user, and is going to live so far away So: first I 
> thought: I upgrade her to Karmic, so the hardware support could be 
> better for her without my help. WRONG! At the moment, she could not 
> use the machine at all with Karmic.
> That was the reason that I upgraded her for Karmic. And that was the 
> reason to think about Debian after seeing what happened... Maybe is 
> less "user friendly", but if I configure the machine, I could expect 
> that the system will still be working for her, even after updates. 
> With Ubuntu it seems that I can't expect that... :-/
>
>
> Best regards,
> Natanael
>
>>  
>>> in my end-user friend machine (I replaced her Windows Vista to 
>>> Kubuntu, and since Jaunty she was happy and I was proud of that), I 
>>> seriously 
>>
>> I don't see why you decided to upgrade to Karmic if the user was happy
>> with Jaunty ?
>>
>>  
>>> considering that option. In this moment I think Debian releases are 
>>> more "user friendly" that the "for human beings" latest distribution.
>>>
>>> 
>>
>> I have to agree that Debian releases tend to be more stable, but I'm not
>> sure about the user friendly thing !!
>>
>>  
>>> Sorry, I don't want to make FUD, but I'm really sad about it. And I 
>>> see I'm not the only one :-/
>>>
>>> 
>>
>> I have seen a few people complaining about their upgrades from Jaunty to
>> Karmic that went bad. I personally upgraded three computers to Karmic
>> without any issues (Actually the jack sense on my work computer's sound
>> card wasn't working in Jaunty and it works now in Karmic).
>>
>> Anyway, it doesn't seem like a common issue, I have only seen a few
>> cases of upgrade fails, and in most of them it was the users
>> "fault" (using apt to upgrade for instance).
>>
>>  
>>> Best regards,
>>> Natanael.
>>>
>>>
 Thanks,
   
>>> 
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>   
>
>


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RE: cancel the 9.10 release... it is not ready

[Mario Vukelic]

On Mon, 2009-11-09 at 13:48 -0700, Kevin Fries wrote:
> Remember, Lucid is an LTS release.  This will have four big side effects:
> 
>- Generally fewer new features (Though rumor of Gnome 3.0,
> and pushing for a 10 sec boot is kinda scary)

Gnome project just announced that 3.0 will be released in September
2010, with 2.30 scheduled for April 2010, so if there ever were any
credible rumours (which I haven't seen), they should be squashed now.



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Re: cancel the 9.10 release... it is not ready

[Natanael Olaiz]

El 11/09/2009 01:03 PM, Mohammed Bassit escribió:
>> El 10/26/2009 12:28 PM, Mohammed Bassit escribió:
>> 
>>> [...]
>>>   
 I really like to persuade people to use ubuntu. But as long
 as it looks unready it will strengthen their opinion, that linux
 is only for nerds. Pleas learn your lesson from the debian
 community and release a new version only if its ready.

 
 
>>> You are free to use Debian !
>>>
>>>   
>> After being migrated from Jaunty to Karmic in three machines (one at 
>> work, one mine, and one of a friend), specially seeing that all that 
>> works in Jaunty (wireless, ethernet, sound!) stop working in Karmic 
>> 
>
> Can you give us more details about what went wrong with your network and
> sound ? was it working in Jaunty out of the box ? did it just break once
> you upgraded to Karmic ?
>
> And those three machines you're talking about, do they have similar
> network and sound cards ? are all three of them from the same make and
> model ?
>   

OK, sorry for my short previous message. I'll explain a little more here:

The three machines have different configurations. One desktop, and two 
different notebooks.

I installed from scratch Kubuntu (in fact Ubuntu, and then installed the 
kde/kubuntu packages) in the Desktop and one of the notebooks, and 
upgraded from Jaunty in the other (my friend) notebook.

Results
- In the desktop PC Karmic works pretty good in general, but there 
are a lot of times that I can't close the programs.
- In my notebook, I had problems with wireless (I couldn't configure 
a hidden SSID) and the knetworkmanager doesn't allow to connect a 
specific network (the click doesn't work). I also have problems with 
audio. Each application that uses it makes an annoying click each time I 
open or close, sometimes the audio isn't working at all, sometimes 
working until suddenly it stops. The pulseaudio backend (in gstreamer or 
xine, both) doesn't work, and I can't configure the skype to work. I had 
hardy before, and all worked perfectly. Some programs doesn't close.
- In my friend notebook she have the same troubles with audio and 
wireless, and the kernel doesn't support it wired network card (I had to 
compile an external module -but that happens also in Jaunty...-). The PC 
doesn't shutdown at all, and any power key works after the upgrade (to 
suspend/etc). Some programs doesn't close.

To me is annoying that kind of problems, but as I work with linux, I 
need new libraries versions, and I know it (I know how to shutdown from 
a console, for instance) I still use it... But my friend is just a new 
linux user, and is going to live so far away So: first I thought: I 
upgrade her to Karmic, so the hardware support could be better for her 
without my help. WRONG! At the moment, she could not use the machine at 
all with Karmic.
That was the reason that I upgraded her for Karmic. And that was the 
reason to think about Debian after seeing what happened... Maybe is less 
"user friendly", but if I configure the machine, I could expect that the 
system will still be working for her, even after updates. With Ubuntu it 
seems that I can't expect that... :-/


Best regards,
Natanael

>   
>> in my end-user friend machine (I replaced her Windows Vista to Kubuntu, 
>> and since Jaunty she was happy and I was proud of that), I seriously 
>> 
>
> I don't see why you decided to upgrade to Karmic if the user was happy
> with Jaunty ?
>
>   
>> considering that option. In this moment I think Debian releases are more 
>> "user friendly" that the "for human beings" latest distribution.
>>
>> 
>
> I have to agree that Debian releases tend to be more stable, but I'm not
> sure about the user friendly thing !!
>
>   
>> Sorry, I don't want to make FUD, but I'm really sad about it. And I see 
>> I'm not the only one :-/
>>
>> 
>
> I have seen a few people complaining about their upgrades from Jaunty to
> Karmic that went bad. I personally upgraded three computers to Karmic
> without any issues (Actually the jack sense on my work computer's sound
> card wasn't working in Jaunty and it works now in Karmic).
>
> Anyway, it doesn't seem like a common issue, I have only seen a few
> cases of upgrade fails, and in most of them it was the users
> "fault" (using apt to upgrade for instance).
>
>   
>> Best regards,
>> Natanael.
>>
>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>>   
>> 
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>   


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RE: cancel the 9.10 release... it is not ready

[Kevin Fries]

Remember, Lucid is an LTS release.  This will have four big side effects:

   - Generally fewer new features (Though rumor of Gnome 3.0, and pushing for a 
10 sec boot is kinda scary)
   - Fewer Alpha releases
   - Two Beta Releases
   - Two weeks of RC release instead of the usual one.

Next release already has the controls in place to be more conservative.


Kevin Fries
Senior Linux Engineer
Computer and Communications Technology, Inc
A division of Japan Communications Inc
(303) 708-9228 x326

From: ubuntu-devel-discuss-boun...@lists.ubuntu.com 
[ubuntu-devel-discuss-boun...@lists.ubuntu.com] On Behalf Of Shentino 
[shent...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 8:44 AM
To: Mohammed Bassit
Cc: ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com
Subject: Re: cancel the 9.10 release... it is not ready

Seeing as the horse is already out of the barn, I don't think there's anything 
more we can do except hope for updates.

Meantime, I think focusing on getting an early polishing to Lucid as a 
preventative measure would be a good idea.

On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 4:03 AM, Mohammed Bassit 
mailto:webceo...@gmail.com>> wrote:

> El 10/26/2009 12:28 PM, Mohammed Bassit escribió:
> > [...]
> >> I really like to persuade people to use ubuntu. But as long
> >> as it looks unready it will strengthen their opinion, that linux
> >> is only for nerds. Pleas learn your lesson from the debian
> >> community and release a new version only if its ready.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > You are free to use Debian !
> >
> After being migrated from Jaunty to Karmic in three machines (one at
> work, one mine, and one of a friend), specially seeing that all that
> works in Jaunty (wireless, ethernet, sound!) stop working in Karmic

Can you give us more details about what went wrong with your network and
sound ? was it working in Jaunty out of the box ? did it just break once
you upgraded to Karmic ?

And those three machines you're talking about, do they have similar
network and sound cards ? are all three of them from the same make and
model ?

> in my end-user friend machine (I replaced her Windows Vista to Kubuntu,
> and since Jaunty she was happy and I was proud of that), I seriously

I don't see why you decided to upgrade to Karmic if the user was happy
with Jaunty ?

> considering that option. In this moment I think Debian releases are more
> "user friendly" that the "for human beings" latest distribution.
>

I have to agree that Debian releases tend to be more stable, but I'm not
sure about the user friendly thing !!

> Sorry, I don't want to make FUD, but I'm really sad about it. And I see
> I'm not the only one :-/
>

I have seen a few people complaining about their upgrades from Jaunty to
Karmic that went bad. I personally upgraded three computers to Karmic
without any issues (Actually the jack sense on my work computer's sound
card wasn't working in Jaunty and it works now in Karmic).

Anyway, it doesn't seem like a common issue, I have only seen a few
cases of upgrade fails, and in most of them it was the users
"fault" (using apt to upgrade for instance).

>
> Best regards,
> Natanael.
>
> > Thanks,
>
>


Thanks,


--
Mohammed Bassit mailto:webceo...@gmail.com>>


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Re: cancel the 9.10 release... it is not ready

[Shentino]

Seeing as the horse is already out of the barn, I don't think there's
anything more we can do except hope for updates.

Meantime, I think focusing on getting an early polishing to Lucid as a
preventative measure would be a good idea.

On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 4:03 AM, Mohammed Bassit  wrote:

>
> > El 10/26/2009 12:28 PM, Mohammed Bassit escribió:
> > > [...]
> > >> I really like to persuade people to use ubuntu. But as long
> > >> as it looks unready it will strengthen their opinion, that linux
> > >> is only for nerds. Pleas learn your lesson from the debian
> > >> community and release a new version only if its ready.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > > You are free to use Debian !
> > >
> > After being migrated from Jaunty to Karmic in three machines (one at
> > work, one mine, and one of a friend), specially seeing that all that
> > works in Jaunty (wireless, ethernet, sound!) stop working in Karmic
>
> Can you give us more details about what went wrong with your network and
> sound ? was it working in Jaunty out of the box ? did it just break once
> you upgraded to Karmic ?
>
> And those three machines you're talking about, do they have similar
> network and sound cards ? are all three of them from the same make and
> model ?
>
> > in my end-user friend machine (I replaced her Windows Vista to Kubuntu,
> > and since Jaunty she was happy and I was proud of that), I seriously
>
> I don't see why you decided to upgrade to Karmic if the user was happy
> with Jaunty ?
>
> > considering that option. In this moment I think Debian releases are more
> > "user friendly" that the "for human beings" latest distribution.
> >
>
> I have to agree that Debian releases tend to be more stable, but I'm not
> sure about the user friendly thing !!
>
> > Sorry, I don't want to make FUD, but I'm really sad about it. And I see
> > I'm not the only one :-/
> >
>
> I have seen a few people complaining about their upgrades from Jaunty to
> Karmic that went bad. I personally upgraded three computers to Karmic
> without any issues (Actually the jack sense on my work computer's sound
> card wasn't working in Jaunty and it works now in Karmic).
>
> Anyway, it doesn't seem like a common issue, I have only seen a few
> cases of upgrade fails, and in most of them it was the users
> "fault" (using apt to upgrade for instance).
>
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Natanael.
> >
> > > Thanks,
> >
> >
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> --
> Mohammed Bassit 
>
>
> --
> Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list
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Re: cancel the 9.10 release... it is not ready

[Mohammed Bassit]

> El 10/26/2009 12:28 PM, Mohammed Bassit escribió:
> > [...]
> >> I really like to persuade people to use ubuntu. But as long
> >> as it looks unready it will strengthen their opinion, that linux
> >> is only for nerds. Pleas learn your lesson from the debian
> >> community and release a new version only if its ready.
> >>
> >> 
> >
> > You are free to use Debian !
> >
> After being migrated from Jaunty to Karmic in three machines (one at 
> work, one mine, and one of a friend), specially seeing that all that 
> works in Jaunty (wireless, ethernet, sound!) stop working in Karmic 

Can you give us more details about what went wrong with your network and
sound ? was it working in Jaunty out of the box ? did it just break once
you upgraded to Karmic ?

And those three machines you're talking about, do they have similar
network and sound cards ? are all three of them from the same make and
model ?

> in my end-user friend machine (I replaced her Windows Vista to Kubuntu, 
> and since Jaunty she was happy and I was proud of that), I seriously 

I don't see why you decided to upgrade to Karmic if the user was happy
with Jaunty ?

> considering that option. In this moment I think Debian releases are more 
> "user friendly" that the "for human beings" latest distribution.
> 

I have to agree that Debian releases tend to be more stable, but I'm not
sure about the user friendly thing !!

> Sorry, I don't want to make FUD, but I'm really sad about it. And I see 
> I'm not the only one :-/
> 

I have seen a few people complaining about their upgrades from Jaunty to
Karmic that went bad. I personally upgraded three computers to Karmic
without any issues (Actually the jack sense on my work computer's sound
card wasn't working in Jaunty and it works now in Karmic).

Anyway, it doesn't seem like a common issue, I have only seen a few
cases of upgrade fails, and in most of them it was the users
"fault" (using apt to upgrade for instance).

> 
> Best regards,
> Natanael.
> 
> > Thanks,
> 
> 


Thanks,


-- 
Mohammed Bassit 


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Re: cancel the 9.10 release... it is not ready

[Peteris Krisjanis]

2009/11/9 Natanael Olaiz :
> El 10/26/2009 12:28 PM, Mohammed Bassit escribió:
>> [...]
>>> I really like to persuade people to use ubuntu. But as long
>>> as it looks unready it will strengthen their opinion, that linux
>>> is only for nerds. Pleas learn your lesson from the debian
>>> community and release a new version only if its ready.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> You are free to use Debian !
>>
> After being migrated from Jaunty to Karmic in three machines (one at
> work, one mine, and one of a friend), specially seeing that all that
> works in Jaunty (wireless, ethernet, sound!) stop working in Karmic
> in my end-user friend machine (I replaced her Windows Vista to Kubuntu,
> and since Jaunty she was happy and I was proud of that), I seriously
> considering that option. In this moment I think Debian releases are more
> "user friendly" that the "for human beings" latest distribution.

I don't buy that ethernet would have stopped working in Karmic. Sound
is more believable, but wireless can be made to work too.

Can you be more specific what was issues with wireless and ethernet?

Cheers,
Peter.

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Re: cancel the 9.10 release... it is not ready

[Natanael Olaiz]

El 10/26/2009 12:28 PM, Mohammed Bassit escribió:
> [...]
>> I really like to persuade people to use ubuntu. But as long
>> as it looks unready it will strengthen their opinion, that linux
>> is only for nerds. Pleas learn your lesson from the debian
>> community and release a new version only if its ready.
>>
>> 
>
> You are free to use Debian !
>
After being migrated from Jaunty to Karmic in three machines (one at 
work, one mine, and one of a friend), specially seeing that all that 
works in Jaunty (wireless, ethernet, sound!) stop working in Karmic 
in my end-user friend machine (I replaced her Windows Vista to Kubuntu, 
and since Jaunty she was happy and I was proud of that), I seriously 
considering that option. In this moment I think Debian releases are more 
"user friendly" that the "for human beings" latest distribution.

Sorry, I don't want to make FUD, but I'm really sad about it. And I see 
I'm not the only one :-/


Best regards,
Natanael.

> Thanks,


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Re: cancel the 9.10 release... it is not ready

[Derek Broughton]

Markus Hitter wrote:

> 
> Am 26.10.2009 um 12:08 schrieb Dirk Hoeschen:
> 
>> Now (3 days before the release) karmic seems to be unready.
>> Even if the system is stable, I found many bugs and inconsistent
>> issues.
> 
> Obviously, the team is totally overwhelmed by bugs. Look for example
> at bug #459067:
> 
>  459067>
> 
> Introduced last week, this bug requires me to go to the keyboard
> manager after each reboot before I can make use of the keyboard. Yet
> is is considered as "Importance low", means, "likely never fixed
> intentionally".
> 
Means "likely never fixed, unless it can be shown to affect more than a 
handful of people _or_ you provide better information".  q.v. the Intel 
graphics bug which had a handful of people screaming that the 9.04 release 
had to be delayed, but affected only a tiny proportion of even the Intel 
users.  And was fixed only a month or so post-release.

> All those regressions make me start to think about _why_ I use
> cutting edge Ubuntu.

Me too.  Why _do_ you if you don't like bugs?  I still can't see any sign of 
what you call "all those regressions"/
-- 
derek


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Re: cancel the 9.10 release... it is not ready

[Sebastien Bacher]

Le lundi 26 octobre 2009 à 14:07 +0100, Markus Hitter a écrit :
> requires me to go to the keyboard  
> manager after each reboot before I can make use of the keyboard. 

Hi,

The bug is low because it's the first ticket about the issue and is
rather due to local configuration than a bug which will be an issue on a
default installation or for most users

Sebastien Bacher


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Re: cancel the 9.10 release... it is not ready

[Markus Hitter]

Am 26.10.2009 um 12:08 schrieb Dirk Hoeschen:

> Now (3 days before the release) karmic seems to be unready.
> Even if the system is stable, I found many bugs and inconsistent
> issues.

Obviously, the team is totally overwhelmed by bugs. Look for example  
at bug #459067:



Introduced last week, this bug requires me to go to the keyboard  
manager after each reboot before I can make use of the keyboard. Yet  
is is considered as "Importance low", means, "likely never fixed  
intentionally".


All those regressions make me start to think about _why_ I use  
cutting edge Ubuntu. It's not for the perhaps improved audio stack,  
it's not for the no longer working keyboard, it is to get recent  
versions of high level applications like Abiword, Scribus, VNC, ...  
you name it.

Considering this, it's most likely I'd better go with keeping an  
older Ubuntu and getting those modern applications from independent  
sources, PPAs or manually installed packages. Even if this is totally  
against the idea of having release cycles first place, it looks to me  
like the path to the best bug/feature ratio of my overall system.


Markus

(currently installing qemu manually as kqemu support was dropped  
intentionally from the official packages)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Dipl. Ing. Markus Hitter
http://www.jump-ing.de/





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Re: cancel the 9.10 release... it is not ready

[Andrea Gasparini]

H, 

> > The user dialogs for several subsystems are not ready yet. For 
> > example... the old dialogs for setting detailed user rights or
> > changing  the welcome screen are not included.
> > 
> 
> As far as I know, the new GDM made the old "welcome screen setting
> dialog" obsolete. Eventually a new tool would be included in a future
> release, or someone (why not yourself?) can make such tool and make it
> available to the community.
> 

Do you mean PolicyKit policy editor?? It goes away from PolicyKit upstream, 
Ubuntu didn't do anything about it: 
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/PolicyKitOne#User_Experience
so, if you don't like it, you could scream against Fedora.

bye
-- 
-gaspa-
---
 https://launchpad.net/~gaspa -
-- HomePage: iogaspa.altervista.org ---
-Il lunedi'dell'arrampicatore: www.lunedi.org -

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Re: cancel the 9.10 release... it is not ready

[Daniel Chen]

(Sorry for top-posting; bad MTA)

Have you filed any bugs WRT PA and mpd? AFAICT, those issues are integration
ones, not anything at fault in PA, and there are several workarounds
allowing a user to output to PA through mpd.

As for Adobe Flash, there is anecdotal "evidence" that nspluginwrapper is
causing issues. If you're on i386, try using adobe-flashplugin (from the
partner repository) instead of flashplugin-installer (you'd need to purge
this latter package). If you're on amd64, try using the native 64-bit alpha
refresh from Adobe's web site instead of flashplugin-installer.

Finally, without additional initialization information from PA, we can't
diagnose why your sound devices aren't being recognized by PA. Please see
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PulseAudio/Log .

Thanks again for helping improve Ubuntu!

-Dan

On Oct 26, 2009 7:08 AM, "Dirk Hoeschen"  wrote:

Hi all,

I am using Ubuntu since 3 Years. I would consider
myself as a advanced linux-user and professional software developer.

Just to check the new version, I migrated two 9.4 Systems to 9.10
and installed a Karmic Beta on a fresh system.

Now (3 days before the release) karmic seems to be unready.
Even if the system is stable, I found many bugs and inconsistent
issues.

On several systems there are error messages with timeouts.
"waiting for /disk/uuid/23wefsdfsdtgqweqrqwe" or so.
When the ugly white ubuntu logo disappears i get some normal
status messages and the the screen gets dark for 15 Seconds
until dark and unfriendly login screen appears. After all...
I have the imagination, that the boot process is not faster.

The user dialogs for several subsystems are not ready yet. For example...
the old dialogs for setting detailed user rights or changing the welcome
screen are not included.

On two systems with Nvidia cards, the hardware detection tells me
that no proprietary drivers are needed. Nvidia drivers must be
installed by hand.

The greatest mess is pulseausio. Usually I uninstall pulseaudio.
Otherwise I can not use mpd and flash crashes randomly.
In Karmic pulsaudio seems to be even more buggy.
Eample: I have a realtek onboard soundcard and an a USB headset.
Alsa seems to initialize both cards correctly.
But pulseaudio randomly detects sometimes only one card, both cards
or no card at all. Why don't you use alsa by default?

I really like to persuade people to use ubuntu. But as long
as it looks unready it will strengthen their opinion, that linux
is only for nerds. Pleas learn your lesson from the debian
community and release a new version only if its ready.

-- 
regards... Dirk


Dossestraße 6
10247 Berlin
Tel.: 030 39 20 56 21
Mobil. 0151 20 500 462
Fax: 030 39 20 56 22
Web: www.dirk-hoeschen.de
*


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Re: cancel the 9.10 release... it is not ready

[Mohammed Bassit]

Basically just cause you are facing some (minor in my opinion) problems,
you want to stop the Karmic release 3 days before its due date ? Come
on !!!


> Hi all,
> 
> I am using Ubuntu since 3 Years. I would consider
> myself as a advanced linux-user and professional software developer.
> 
> Just to check the new version, I migrated two 9.4 Systems to 9.10
> and installed a Karmic Beta on a fresh system.


Beta software by definition do have bugs and issues. I have been using
the beta myself on my office desktop, and I didn't face any
showstoppers.


> 
> Now (3 days before the release) karmic seems to be unready.
> Even if the system is stable, I found many bugs and inconsistent
> issues.
> 
> On several systems there are error messages with timeouts.
> "waiting for /disk/uuid/23wefsdfsdtgqweqrqwe" or so.
> When the ugly white ubuntu logo disappears i get some normal
> status messages and the the screen gets dark for 15 Seconds
> until dark and unfriendly login screen appears. After all...
> I have the imagination, that the boot process is not faster.


Clearly you seem more unhappy with the new artwork, than concerned with
that bug. Nevertheless you can always file a bug report, and with a
little luck it could be fixed a little after the final release.


> 
> The user dialogs for several subsystems are not ready yet. For 
> example... the old dialogs for setting detailed user rights or changing 
> the welcome screen are not included.
> 

As far as I know, the new GDM made the old "welcome screen setting
dialog" obsolete. Eventually a new tool would be included in a future
release, or someone (why not yourself?) can make such tool and make it
available to the community.


> On two systems with Nvidia cards, the hardware detection tells me
> that no proprietary drivers are needed. Nvidia drivers must be
> installed by hand.


Both my laptop and desktop have Nvidia cards, and they are working
properly. Ubuntu offered me to install proprietary drivers, I did that
on the laptop but chose to use open source drivers on the desktop. So
again file a bug about your specific problem, clearly it's not a general
one.


> 
> The greatest mess is pulseausio. Usually I uninstall pulseaudio.
> Otherwise I can not use mpd and flash crashes randomly.
> In Karmic pulsaudio seems to be even more buggy.
> Eample: I have a realtek onboard soundcard and an a USB headset.
> Alsa seems to initialize both cards correctly.
> But pulseaudio randomly detects sometimes only one card, both cards
> or no card at all. Why don't you use alsa by default?
> 


Join the crowd complaining about Pulseaudio. The think is I really do
see a lot of improvement since pulseaudio was included by default in
Ubuntu. I agree there are some annoying glitches, but no showstoppers
nonetheless.


> I really like to persuade people to use ubuntu. But as long
> as it looks unready it will strengthen their opinion, that linux
> is only for nerds. Pleas learn your lesson from the debian
> community and release a new version only if its ready.
> 


You are free to use Debian !


Thanks,

-- 
Mohammed Bassit 


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