Re: Remove app via apt-get from menu
Olá George e a todos. On Thursday 19 March 2009 15:04:55 George Farris wrote: > You know what would be very cool for new users. Once they have a > package installed and decide they don't want it anymore, they could > right click on the application menu item and see "Uninstall program". > This would immediately remove the package, appropriate dialogs and > authorizations would be in effect of course.. +1 -- Hi, I'm BUGabundo, and I am Ubuntu (whyubuntu.com) (``-_-´´) http://LinuxNoDEI.BUGabundo.net Linux user #443786GPG key 1024D/A1784EBB http://BUGabundo.net ps. My emails tend to sound authority and aggressive. I'm sorry in advance. I'll try to be more assertive as time goes by... signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Remove app via apt-get from menu
> It is true that some menu items in Ubuntu have context menus (another > example is Firefox's Bookmarks menu), but that doesn't necessarily mean > it's a good idea. Firefox bookmarks are a great comparison, because the bookmarks menu isn't a context menu, it's a list menu. It's a good idea to have a context menu on a list menu because otherwise you'd have no way to attach verbs to nouns in this scope. Unless you plan on inventing some new way of doing this such as gnome-do. Breaking people's train of thought and the way brains work is not the way to make intuitive designs. Regards, Martin -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Remove app via apt-get from menu
> > Anyway, what if the user wants to remove the Freecel game, but want to > keep the others? That's almost impossible, cause they belong to a single > package. > Possibly the immediate fix is to allow users to simply remove the item from the menu and not remove the package from the system? -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Remove app via apt-get from menu
Em Sex, 2009-03-20 às 13:44 +0100, Vincenzo Ciancia escreveu: > On 19/03/2009 Jonh Wendell wrote: > > Why can't the user go to add/remove programs to uninstall them if > > [s]he > > went there to install in the first place? > > An argument can go as follows: when you look for something that you > don't have in the menus, you'll naturally select the voice that says > "add/remove", as the application is not yet in the menu. It is similar > to creating a new file in a folder. But when you already have a file in > a folder, you will want to act on the file to delete it. In the same > spirit, when you see an application that you don't use and clutters your > menu, you will want to click on it and delete it. > > And it's shorter anyway because you don't have to search (in the remove > dialog) for something that you already have in front of you. > > Vincenzo That makes me remember windows menus, where each program creates an entry to run the program and to uninstall it. Anyway, what if the user wants to remove the Freecel game, but want to keep the others? That's almost impossible, cause they belong to a single package. Also, the programs showed at the menu are a minimal part of what's installed on the system. So, doing this we are fixing the "problem" in part, not complete. Also, doing this we are getting far from upstream, where we should work together. If we're going to to this, I suggest we work closest upstream to find a solution for all distros (packagekit?). Cheers, -- Jonh Wendell http://www.bani.com.br -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Remove app via apt-get from menu
On 20/03/2009 Vincenzo Ciancia wrote: > > > > An argument can go as follows: when you look for something that you > don't have in the menus, you'll naturally select the voice that says > "add/remove", as the application is not yet in the menu. It is > similar to creating a new file in a folder. But when you already have > a file in a folder, you will want to act on the file to delete it. In > the same spirit, when you see an application that you don't use and > clutters your menu, you will want to click on it and delete it. A bit mac-alike but would it make sense to some of you if also dragging a menu entry to the trash triggered the uninstall dialog for it? Vincenzo -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Remove app via apt-get from menu
On 19/03/2009 Andrew Barbaccia wrote: > I agree. Two places to accomplish the same thing seems confusing. > Then we should either remove the trashcan or the corresponding right-click menu entry :) Vincenzo -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Remove app via apt-get from menu
On 19/03/2009 Jonh Wendell wrote: > Why can't the user go to add/remove programs to uninstall them if > [s]he > went there to install in the first place? An argument can go as follows: when you look for something that you don't have in the menus, you'll naturally select the voice that says "add/remove", as the application is not yet in the menu. It is similar to creating a new file in a folder. But when you already have a file in a folder, you will want to act on the file to delete it. In the same spirit, when you see an application that you don't use and clutters your menu, you will want to click on it and delete it. And it's shorter anyway because you don't have to search (in the remove dialog) for something that you already have in front of you. Vincenzo -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Remove app via apt-get from menu
On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 12:11 PM, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: > It is true that some menu items in Ubuntu have context menus (another > example is Firefox's Bookmarks menu), but that doesn't necessarily mean > it's a good idea. > > Most menu items do the same thing when you right-click on them as when > you right-click on them. There's no visible distinction between menu > items that have a context menu and menu items that don't. It's an implicit logical distinction. When you click a menu like the file menu, you only have one task in mind: selecting an item from that menu to perform its action. No context menus make sense because there is only one context. Firefox is a great example actually. When you open up the bookmarks menu, the context you start in is the same as the File menu: you want to open a menu item... But all too often, you can quickly find yourself diverted by cruft that needs removing. If I had to load up the bookmark manager each time I wanted to remove a bookmark, *I just wouldn't bother bookmarking at all* because I'd just junk it up too often. Letting users perform maintenance operations within another context helps cut the size of these tasks down. It's a massive usability boon. It allows them to use their system more and clean up after it less. You could argue that it's these sorts of implicit intricacies that make computing hard for beginners... But when the right click gesture means "show alternative tasks for this item" in almost every other facet of the modern desktop OS, not including it is more confusing. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Remove app via apt-get from menu
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Remco wrote on 20/03/09 00:13: > > On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 12:35 AM, Markus Hitter wrote: >> >>> -- there *are* context menu's on almost everything else in Ubuntu >> >> Yes, almost everything. Everything exept menus them selfs. > > That's not true. The [Applications] menu has a context menu with the > following options: >... It is true that some menu items in Ubuntu have context menus (another example is Firefox's Bookmarks menu), but that doesn't necessarily mean it's a good idea. Most menu items do the same thing when you right-click on them as when you right-click on them. There's no visible distinction between menu items that have a context menu and menu items that don't. - -- Matthew Paul Thomas http://mpt.net.nz/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAknDh+cACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecrFFgCffW/gkbPPrfUb+OaEYa6azjEM RO8AoLCAxp0bp52CVGFSDVA8csuo02bI =cHj9 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Remove app via apt-get from menu
2009/3/19 Andrew Barbaccia > We also have to consider what happens if we remove something like > "gnome-terminal" which in case will remove "gnome-desktop" and then cause > things to not get updated in the future... > That's true. Couple of suggestions there: 1. Remote the whole removing process to Synaptic or add/remove so saying you want to remove something from the menu opens up synaptic and then selects the relevant package (with the relevant warnings, eg: "Ubuntu desktop will also be removed") 2. Do the removing in-process but treat the user the same way as the Add/remove screen does. Ie if the package is a dependency of anything else, it can't be removed. 3. A hybrid of the two. We try and remove the package "in-process" first, but if it has dependency ramifications, we show an error that lets them load up synaptic and select that package for removal (and show the problem) As others have since said, a few context options might be wise: - Run or Open - Hide - Remove "package name" - Select "package name" in Synaptic (might be redundant depending on the behaviour of the last one) - Properties (to edit the shortcut details) Right clicking a group (that holds items) would give you options to add a sub-group, hide, remove, etc. I've just had a look at the Mint implementation. Few things to point out about it: - It's based on a different menu with a different ethos behind it so I don't think it's a case of just pulling it down. - It's far too easy to make a mistake if you have [recent] root permissions. - But it's pretty much what I've been thinking of while writing these emails. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Remove app via apt-get from menu
On Thursday 19 March 2009 10:46:11 pm Martin Owens wrote: > Hi Markus, > > I once was in a Lighting Talk which was describing some interface > research related to context. It was fascinating because it showed the > difference between nouns (applications) and verbs (run, delete, > uninstall) > > On Fri, 2009-03-20 at 00:35 +0100, Markus Hitter wrote: > > > > Right-click menus inside a left-click menu? I can't imagine any user > > interface guideline agrees here. > > > > So, with this we have to consider that the left mouse click is actually > just a useful way to pull up a list widget with a bunch of ordered > nouns. A context menu is still valid here, because we have no verbs > apart from the default (assumed) one 'Run'. > > There are a number of Brainstorm items that ask for this feature, it's a > well requested idea that already has an implementation in mint and > enough rationale to back up it's addition. I've not much to add, just wanted to stick my head in and say I like this idea, though I agree that a way to queue sending these commands to apt would be good -- Mackenzie Morgan http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com apt-get moo signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Remove app via apt-get from menu
Hi Markus, I once was in a Lighting Talk which was describing some interface research related to context. It was fascinating because it showed the difference between nouns (applications) and verbs (run, delete, uninstall) On Fri, 2009-03-20 at 00:35 +0100, Markus Hitter wrote: > > Right-click menus inside a left-click menu? I can't imagine any user > interface guideline agrees here. > So, with this we have to consider that the left mouse click is actually just a useful way to pull up a list widget with a bunch of ordered nouns. A context menu is still valid here, because we have no verbs apart from the default (assumed) one 'Run'. There are a number of Brainstorm items that ask for this feature, it's a well requested idea that already has an implementation in mint and enough rationale to back up it's addition. 2009/3/19 Andrew Barbaccia > > I agree. Two places to accomplish the same thing seems confusing. > That rationale makes no sense when your dealing with context, it's not two places. It's a rationale context link from one idea to another. Think about if we applied the same logic to nautilus, we'd have to remove the Places menu, it's already in the nautilus Places list, get rid of the home folder because you can access it from /home, remove previews, because it's so easy to load them in a viewer and finally remove the ability to double click on anything, because why should you need to load a file from a nautilus context when you can just load the target application first and use that Open/Load functionality. This may at first look like duplication, but it's not, it's contexted functionality and it improved the ease of use of the system. Regards, Martin Owens -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Remove app via apt-get from menu
On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 12:35 AM, Markus Hitter wrote: >> -- there *are* context menu's on almost everything else in Ubuntu > > Yes, almost everything. Everything exept menus them selfs. That's not true. The menu has a context menu with the following options: Add this launcher to panel Add this launcher to desktop Entire menu > Add this launcher to panel Add this launcher to desktop One more option won't hurt. Another alternative I thought of is that of an uninstall icon to the right of each application. That would require only a left click. Of course it would first come up with a dialog to prevent accidental uninstalling. Remco -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Remove app via apt-get from menu
Am 19.03.2009 um 22:08 schrieb Oli Warner: > I don't see how adding context menus to the menu items could > confuse anybody Right-click menus inside a left-click menu? I can't imagine any user interface guideline agrees here. Many people use menus with a single click (mouse down - drag to submenu item - mouse up). Way too much finger acrobatics to handle a right click at the same time. > -- there *are* context menu's on almost everything else in Ubuntu Yes, almost everything. Everything exept menus them selfs. MarKus - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dipl. Ing. Markus Hitter http://www.jump-ing.de/ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Remove app via apt-get from menu
> > *When I load up the Application menu, I want to run a particular > application*. I'm trying to get things done. Interrupting that process to > search for a package in a package manager, gets nothing accomplished. But if > I could right click and deal with 90% of the process *from the menu*, my > system would undoubtedly be less cluttered and I'd be happier. > Very fair points. We should consider prompting a dialogue asking to remove only the menu item or the application/package from the system. We also have to consider what happens if we remove something like "gnome-terminal" which in case will remove "gnome-desktop" and then cause things to not get updated in the future... -a -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Remove app via apt-get from menu
2009/3/19 Andrew Barbaccia > I agree. Two places to accomplish the same thing seems confusing. That's like saying files shouldn't have context menus because you can do [nearly] everything there by left-clicking in some form. Don't take this personally, but it's a poorly thought out response. The reason why this makes so much sense is the context of how people reach the decision that they need to remove something. *When I load up the Application menu, I want to run a particular application *. I'm trying to get things done. Interrupting that process to search for a package in a package manager, gets nothing accomplished. But if I could right click and deal with 90% of the process *from the menu*, my system would undoubtedly be less cluttered and I'd be happier. I don't see how adding context menus to the menu items could confuse anybody -- there *are* context menu's on almost everything else in Ubuntu -- I argue it's confusing that there aren't context menus! On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 2:48 PM, Jonh Wendell wrote: > >> Em Qui, 2009-03-19 às 19:41 +0100, Vincenzo Ciancia escreveu: >> > On 19/03/2009 Joao Pinto wrote: >> > > >> > > +1 >> > > >> > > Mosf of the times we realize the bunch of applications that we no >> > > longer use/need when we search on the menu. >> > >> > I think linuxmint already has this so it's just a matter of shameless >> > free-software-blessed copying? >> > >> > Vincenzo >> >> Why can't the user go to add/remove programs to uninstall them if [s]he >> went there to install in the first place? >> -- >> Jonh Wendell >> http://www.bani.com.br >> >> >> -- >> Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list >> Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com >> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: >> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss >> > > > > -- > Andrew Barbaccia > > -- > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss > > -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Remove app via apt-get from menu
My explanation would honestly be because the add-remove dialog is a pain to use if I'm kind of in the middle of something else and I realize that I really would prefer not to have application "x" sitting on my system. The space required to store it isn't really what bothers me. My smallest drive is 100 gb. The thing that bothers me is the time investment. If there was a way to generally edit the menu by right click -> remove item, or right click -> add new item, or anything else even. The current menu editing application is a nightmare to me, and I only use it when I really cannot stand to have the item in there. But in general, if i had the ability to rightclick -> uninstall things, i would use it often. otherwise what I end up doing is switching to terminal. Generally I only use add-remove when I don't remember what the name of the package is, and synaptic when the operations that I want to do are much too complicated to easily use commandline with my limited ability. I think that having multiple front ends is perfectly valid, but not currently. We need the ability for apt to have multiple front ends doing operations at once, or queuing, or something. If we can't queue installer commands, than I reluctantly agree that the more front ends, the worse, as it will more than likely cause more than a few headaches from the "another instance of synaptic is currently running" dialog. -Mike > > > I agree. Two places to accomplish the same thing seems confusing. > > > On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 2:48 PM, Jonh Wendell wrote: > > > Em Qui, 2009-03-19 ?s 19:41 +0100, Vincenzo Ciancia escreveu: > > > On 19/03/2009 Joao Pinto wrote: > > > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > > > Mosf of the times we realize the bunch of applications that we no > > > > longer use/need when we search on the menu. > > > > > > I think linuxmint already has this so it's just a matter of shameless > > > free-software-blessed copying? > > > > > > Vincenzo > > > > Why can't the user go to add/remove programs to uninstall them if [s]he > > went there to install in the first place? > > -- > > Jonh Wendell > > http://www.bani.com.br > > > > -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Remove app via apt-get from menu
I agree. Two places to accomplish the same thing seems confusing. On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 2:48 PM, Jonh Wendell wrote: > Em Qui, 2009-03-19 às 19:41 +0100, Vincenzo Ciancia escreveu: > > On 19/03/2009 Joao Pinto wrote: > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > Mosf of the times we realize the bunch of applications that we no > > > longer use/need when we search on the menu. > > > > I think linuxmint already has this so it's just a matter of shameless > > free-software-blessed copying? > > > > Vincenzo > > Why can't the user go to add/remove programs to uninstall them if [s]he > went there to install in the first place? > -- > Jonh Wendell > http://www.bani.com.br > > > -- > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss > -- Andrew Barbaccia -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Remove app via apt-get from menu
Em Qui, 2009-03-19 às 19:41 +0100, Vincenzo Ciancia escreveu: > On 19/03/2009 Joao Pinto wrote: > > > > +1 > > > > Mosf of the times we realize the bunch of applications that we no > > longer use/need when we search on the menu. > > I think linuxmint already has this so it's just a matter of shameless > free-software-blessed copying? > > Vincenzo Why can't the user go to add/remove programs to uninstall them if [s]he went there to install in the first place? -- Jonh Wendell http://www.bani.com.br -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Remove app via apt-get from menu
On 19/03/2009 Joao Pinto wrote: > > +1 > > Mosf of the times we realize the bunch of applications that we no > longer use/need when we search on the menu. I think linuxmint already has this so it's just a matter of shameless free-software-blessed copying? Vincenzo -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Remove app via apt-get from menu
On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 3:04 PM, George Farris wrote: > Hi all, > > You know what would be very cool for new users. Once they have a > package installed and decide they don't want it anymore, they could > right click on the application menu item and see "Uninstall program". > This would immediately remove the package, appropriate dialogs and > authorizations would be in effect of course.. > > Cheers > > > > -- > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss > +1 Mosf of the times we realize the bunch of applications that we no longer use/need when we search on the menu. -- João Luís Marques Pinto GetDeb Team Leader http://www.getdeb.net http://blog.getdeb.net -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Remove app via apt-get from menu
A general "edit mode" would be great because Alacarte is a pain to use. I'm imagining right clicking the menu I want to edit, clicking edit and then being able to drag things around, or right click items to do further things (hide an item, create further levels, uninstall its package, etc)... Without the 3 second delay that alacarte throws in there each time you change something... On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 3:04 PM, George Farris wrote: > Hi all, > > You know what would be very cool for new users. Once they have a > package installed and decide they don't want it anymore, they could > right click on the application menu item and see "Uninstall program". > This would immediately remove the package, appropriate dialogs and > authorizations would be in effect of course.. > > Cheers > > > > -- > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss > -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
