Re: Why is LibreOffice Startcenter hidden from Gnome?

[Coburn Ingram]

Thanks, guys. I was able to update-proof my launcher by putting it in
~/.local. Now we just need to idiot-proof it. We need to make this launcher
discoverable and usable by the average end-user, without editing any files.

The workaround I suggested for the individual who burdened all of us with
their personal preference by getting this launcher to not show in anyone's
Gnome is for them to put it in a folder in their applications menu, so they
do not see it.

On Sat, Mar 13, 2021 at 4:16 PM Gunnar Hjalmarsson 
wrote:

> On 2021-03-12 18:30, Olivier Tilloy wrote:
> > Gunnar is right, and this particular problem has demonstrated that
> > it's hard to find a middle ground that pleases everyone. I'll start by
> > noting that there's a cleaner workaround that doesn't involve hand
> > editing the desktop files in /usr/share/applications/: you can instead
> > copy the desktop file you're interested in to
> > ~/.local/share/applications/ and edit it there. It won't be overridden
> > with the next package update, and XDG-compliant desktops will prefer
> > your local version to the system-wide one.
> > That said, I'm absolutely open to reconsidering that patch. Can we
> > please move back that discussion to
> > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1696250, to
> > keep everything in one place ?
>
> Thanks Olivier. I submitted a comment on the bug report and re-opened it.
>
> --
> Rgds,
>
> Gunnar Hjalmarsson
> https://launchpad.net/~gunnarhj
>
>
-- 
Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list
Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss

Re: Why is LibreOffice Startcenter hidden from Gnome?

[Olivier Tilloy]

On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 8:45 PM Gunnar Hjalmarsson  wrote:
>
> On 2021-03-11 20:17, Coburn Ingram wrote:
> > I looked at the issue you referenced.
> >
> > It seems to me this is a simple confusion of terms.
>
> I don't think so. Both Jeremy and Olivier know how it works. The
> discussion they had on the bug report was focused on the fact that quite
> a few LibreOffice launchers were displayed if you opened "Show
> Applications". But they may have overlooked the fact that the mechanism
> used for hiding icons from "Show Applications" has the side effect to
> prevent you from the option to add such an icon to "Favorites" in the dock.

Gunnar is right, and this particular problem has demonstrated that
it's hard to find a middle ground that pleases everyone. I'll start by
noting that there's a cleaner workaround that doesn't involve hand
editing the desktop files in /usr/share/applications/: you can instead
copy the desktop file you're interested in to
~/.local/share/applications/ and edit it there. It won't be overridden
with the next package update, and XDG-compliant desktops will prefer
your local version to the system-wide one.
That said, I'm absolutely open to reconsidering that patch. Can we
please move back that discussion to
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1696250, to
keep everything in one place ?

 Olivier

-- 
Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list
Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss

Re: Why is LibreOffice Startcenter hidden from Gnome?

[Gunnar Hjalmarsson]

On 2021-03-12 18:30, Olivier Tilloy wrote:

Gunnar is right, and this particular problem has demonstrated that
it's hard to find a middle ground that pleases everyone. I'll start by
noting that there's a cleaner workaround that doesn't involve hand
editing the desktop files in /usr/share/applications/: you can instead
copy the desktop file you're interested in to
~/.local/share/applications/ and edit it there. It won't be overridden
with the next package update, and XDG-compliant desktops will prefer
your local version to the system-wide one.
That said, I'm absolutely open to reconsidering that patch. Can we
please move back that discussion to
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1696250, to
keep everything in one place ?


Thanks Olivier. I submitted a comment on the bug report and re-opened it.

--
Rgds,

Gunnar Hjalmarsson
https://launchpad.net/~gunnarhj



OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
-- 
Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list
Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss

Re: Why is LibreOffice Startcenter hidden from Gnome?

[Coburn Ingram]

You guys are great. This is why open source is awesome.

On Fri, Mar 12, 2021 at 9:30 AM Olivier Tilloy 
wrote:

> On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 8:45 PM Gunnar Hjalmarsson 
> wrote:
> >
> > On 2021-03-11 20:17, Coburn Ingram wrote:
> > > I looked at the issue you referenced.
> > >
> > > It seems to me this is a simple confusion of terms.
> >
> > I don't think so. Both Jeremy and Olivier know how it works. The
> > discussion they had on the bug report was focused on the fact that quite
> > a few LibreOffice launchers were displayed if you opened "Show
> > Applications". But they may have overlooked the fact that the mechanism
> > used for hiding icons from "Show Applications" has the side effect to
> > prevent you from the option to add such an icon to "Favorites" in the
> dock.
>
> Gunnar is right, and this particular problem has demonstrated that
> it's hard to find a middle ground that pleases everyone. I'll start by
> noting that there's a cleaner workaround that doesn't involve hand
> editing the desktop files in /usr/share/applications/: you can instead
> copy the desktop file you're interested in to
> ~/.local/share/applications/ and edit it there. It won't be overridden
> with the next package update, and XDG-compliant desktops will prefer
> your local version to the system-wide one.
> That said, I'm absolutely open to reconsidering that patch. Can we
> please move back that discussion to
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1696250, to
> keep everything in one place ?
>
>  Olivier
>
-- 
Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list
Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss

Re: Why is LibreOffice Startcenter hidden from Gnome?

[Coburn Ingram]

Please do not remove options that other users like in order to unclutter
your own desktop.

Perhaps we could have a way to tweak the applications that are shown. There
are plenty of utility apps that come default that I do not want to see
every time I hit the heads-up key. LibreOffice is not one of them.

If a user is tired of clutter, they can drag and drop redundant icons into
a folder.

Thanks,

Coby

On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 12:24 PM Gunnar Hjalmarsson 
wrote:

> On 2021-03-11 19:52, Gunnar Hjalmarsson wrote:
> > Hi Coby!
> >
> > On 2021-03-11 18:05, Coburn Ingram wrote:
> >> Just a minor issue for me. I prefer to use
> >> /usr/share/applications/libreoffice-startcenter.desktop as my launcher
> >> for LibreOffice. But I have to edit the file to make it able to appear
> >> in the launcher bar. Apparently, somebody had a meeting, and said, "No,
> >> we don't want this launcher to work in Ubuntu. It clutters up the
> >> desktop." I respectfully disagree. I would like this available as an
> >> option to the end-user.
> >
> > Personally I agree. I made it a habit to have that launcher in the dock
> > instead of three app specific ones. But suddenly it refused to show up
> > in the dock...
> >
> > The background seems to be . But
> > there they mostly talk about the number of LO related icons in "Show
> > Applications". The use case where somebody (like you and me) wants to
> > have the Startcenter icon in the dock seems not to have been considered
> >
> > @Olivier: Any chance that hide-startcenter-desktop-file.patch could be
> > reconsidered?
>
> Maybe it's worth adding that the equivalent Debian bug
> () was accepted at first, but the
> developer changed his mind later.
>
>
> https://salsa.debian.org/libreoffice-team/libreoffice/libreoffice/-/commit/17459620
>
> --
> Gunnar Hjalmarsson
> https://launchpad.net/~gunnarhj
>
>
-- 
Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list
Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss

Re: Why is LibreOffice Startcenter hidden from Gnome?

[Gunnar Hjalmarsson]

On 2021-03-11 19:52, Gunnar Hjalmarsson wrote:

Hi Coby!

On 2021-03-11 18:05, Coburn Ingram wrote:

Just a minor issue for me. I prefer to use
/usr/share/applications/libreoffice-startcenter.desktop as my launcher
for LibreOffice. But I have to edit the file to make it able to appear
in the launcher bar. Apparently, somebody had a meeting, and said, "No,
we don't want this launcher to work in Ubuntu. It clutters up the
desktop." I respectfully disagree. I would like this available as an
option to the end-user.


Personally I agree. I made it a habit to have that launcher in the dock
instead of three app specific ones. But suddenly it refused to show up
in the dock...

The background seems to be . But
there they mostly talk about the number of LO related icons in "Show
Applications". The use case where somebody (like you and me) wants to
have the Startcenter icon in the dock seems not to have been considered

@Olivier: Any chance that hide-startcenter-desktop-file.patch could be
reconsidered?


Maybe it's worth adding that the equivalent Debian bug 
() was accepted at first, but the 
developer changed his mind later.


https://salsa.debian.org/libreoffice-team/libreoffice/libreoffice/-/commit/17459620

--
Gunnar Hjalmarsson
https://launchpad.net/~gunnarhj



OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
-- 
Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list
Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss

Re: Why is LibreOffice Startcenter hidden from Gnome?

[Gunnar Hjalmarsson]

On 2021-03-11 20:17, Coburn Ingram wrote:

I looked at the issue you referenced.

It seems to me this is a simple confusion of terms.


I don't think so. Both Jeremy and Olivier know how it works. The 
discussion they had on the bug report was focused on the fact that quite 
a few LibreOffice launchers were displayed if you opened "Show 
Applications". But they may have overlooked the fact that the mechanism 
used for hiding icons from "Show Applications" has the side effect to 
prevent you from the option to add such an icon to "Favorites" in the dock.


--
Gunnar Hjalmarsson
https://launchpad.net/~gunnarhj



OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
-- 
Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list
Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss

Re: Why is LibreOffice Startcenter hidden from Gnome?

[Coburn Ingram]

I looked at the issue you referenced.

It seems to me this is a simple confusion of terms. You do not have to
decide whether or not to block the Startcenter or the Math launcher in the
distro. You just have to decide whether they will populate in the dock by
default. The dock configuration is different from the launchers themselves.
The launchers live in /usr/share/applications. The dock configuration lives
in ~/.config/dconf/user. It is two completely different things. You do not
fix the pretty or not pretty of the dock by censoring the end user's
options. You fix it by configuring the dock that you want to set up by
default in the install process. Two different files.

I was thinking today that Ubuntu should probably install Gnome extensions
by default, and have the most popular extensions turned ON to begin with.
This is with a new install. It is kind of like getting a new Android phone,
and there is your clock widget, all set up for you. Ubuntu has a very
bare-bones philosophy about initial install setup. They are not big on
winning over new users with flash and presentation. If you remember the
days of Compiz and the rotating cube, that will kind of give you an idea.

OK, so this is what I am talking about. Setting up the brand-new Ubuntu
desktop to have a weather widget, or the removable device menu, or
Caffeine, enabled by default, would not be a big deal. I could do it. And
then if somebody complained about it, the right course of action of course
would be to go to the Gnome Extensions developers and have them ban those
extensions for all users, forever and amen. Right? No. The right answer
would be to tweak your install setup so that gnome-extensions is still
installed, but those particular extensions are switched OFF by default. Two
different files.

The correct way to have a launcher in the dock or not have a launcher in
the dock is to right-click and either add it or remove it from favorites.
The correct way is not to censor that launcher in the distro overall.

Thanks, and I hope that helps.
Coby

On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 10:52 AM Gunnar Hjalmarsson 
wrote:

> Hi Coby!
>
> On 2021-03-11 18:05, Coburn Ingram wrote:
> > Just a minor issue for me. I prefer to use
> > /usr/share/applications/libreoffice-startcenter.desktop as my launcher
> > for LibreOffice. But I have to edit the file to make it able to appear
> > in the launcher bar. Apparently, somebody had a meeting, and said, "No,
> > we don't want this launcher to work in Ubuntu. It clutters up the
> > desktop." I respectfully disagree. I would like this available as an
> > option to the end-user.
>
> Personally I agree. I made it a habit to have that launcher in the dock
> instead of three app specific ones. But suddenly it refused to show up
> in the dock...
>
> The background seems to be . But
> there they mostly talk about the number of LO related icons in "Show
> Applications". The use case where somebody (like you and me) wants to
> have the Startcenter icon in the dock seems not to have been considered.
>
> @Olivier: Any chance that hide-startcenter-desktop-file.patch could be
> reconsidered?
>
> --
> Cheers,
>
> Gunnar Hjalmarsson
> https://launchpad.net/~gunnarhj
>
>
-- 
Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list
Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss

Re: Why is LibreOffice Startcenter hidden from Gnome?

[Gunnar Hjalmarsson]

Hi Coby!

On 2021-03-11 18:05, Coburn Ingram wrote:

Just a minor issue for me. I prefer to use
/usr/share/applications/libreoffice-startcenter.desktop as my launcher
for LibreOffice. But I have to edit the file to make it able to appear
in the launcher bar. Apparently, somebody had a meeting, and said, "No,
we don't want this launcher to work in Ubuntu. It clutters up the
desktop." I respectfully disagree. I would like this available as an
option to the end-user.


Personally I agree. I made it a habit to have that launcher in the dock 
instead of three app specific ones. But suddenly it refused to show up 
in the dock...


The background seems to be . But 
there they mostly talk about the number of LO related icons in "Show 
Applications". The use case where somebody (like you and me) wants to 
have the Startcenter icon in the dock seems not to have been considered.


@Olivier: Any chance that hide-startcenter-desktop-file.patch could be 
reconsidered?


--
Cheers,

Gunnar Hjalmarsson
https://launchpad.net/~gunnarhj



OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
-- 
Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list
Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss