Re: [ubuntu-in] Ubuntu on Apple Mac's
Am being a pest here, but my own favorite laptop series / company has been the IBM /Lenovo Thinkpads - T and X series (dream about the later only) So Hardeep, what are the hard facts that you dislike in a mac - not the moral / philosophy. On 6/23/08, Hardeep Singh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The only question is why would they do that? Steve Jobs is a marketing expert, he tweaks all his products in a way to keep 'his own' cash registers ringing. Any examples Putting linux on his macbook would mean accepting the truth that mac sucks what exactly sucks and more importantly linux would not add any extra zing to his cash registers, The reason for my insistence on knowing how good or bad Macs are simple , i have to help friends decide between macs and the other laptops. And the think is of late half a dozen people have waltzed through our lives all flaunting macs, though none with linux , and obviously all the macs lokked (and performed) flashier than my unstable / on the bleeding edge misbehaving ubuntu. hence the need for hard facts however, all your comments and discussion, so far, is much appreciated. ram -- ubuntu-in mailing list ubuntu-in@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-in
Re: [ubuntu-in] Ubuntu on Apple Mac's
if apple sells a laptop pre-installed with lin, or dual-boots with lin and mac, i'd suppose hordes of people, new people, and those normally averse to apple, would go out and enthusiastically buy those machines. The only question is why would they do that? Steve Jobs is a marketing expert, he tweaks all his products in a way to keep 'his own' cash registers ringing. Putting linux on his macbook would mean accepting the truth that mac sucks and more importantly linux would not add any extra zing to his cash registers, instead a free OS would mean people won't 'buy' apps from 'him'. These are enough reasons for him to not make this 'mistake'. Thats why I call him a bigger devil than Bill Gates. :-) --- Original message --- From: Linux Lingam [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ubuntu-in@lists.ubuntu.com Sent: 23.6.'08, 2:21 -- ubuntu-in mailing list ubuntu-in@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-in
Re: [ubuntu-in] Ubuntu on Apple Mac's
On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 2:54 AM, Linux Lingam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i know of a few who triple-boot: mac, win, lin. am sure triplebooting mac, win and Linux would be possible on a linux machine as well, *if* mac released their os independent of the platform. Agreeing with all the benefits of a mac under lin it still leaves me wondering whether the control macs keep over the booting process is a backdoor to jam (at a later date) a better OS working on their hardware. still-not-convinced-about-mac-under-lin ram -- ubuntu-in mailing list ubuntu-in@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-in
Re: [ubuntu-in] Ubuntu on Apple Mac's
I'm sorry I missed the first part of this conversation, but has anyone actually managed to dual-boot a MAC with Ubuntu ? Yes, my friend dual-boots his Macbook Pro with Ubuntu Hardy and OS X Leopard. He claims to have faced no problems whatsoever. Cheers Pratul -- dum vivimus, vivamus 70 72 61 74 75 6C http://pratul.in -- ubuntu-in mailing list ubuntu-in@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-in
Re: [ubuntu-in] Ubuntu on Apple Mac's
On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 7:40 PM, Lut4rp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm sorry I missed the first part of this conversation, but has anyone actually managed to dual-boot a MAC with Ubuntu ? Yes, my friend dual-boots his Macbook Pro with Ubuntu Hardy and OS X Leopard. He claims to have faced no problems whatsoever. i know of a few who triple-boot: mac, win, lin. regards niyam -- niyam bhushan -- ubuntu-in mailing list ubuntu-in@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-in
Re: [ubuntu-in] Ubuntu on Apple Mac's
You are so wrong! The Mac has a very lively and helpful community around it, even though its closed and paid. My God, these guys are making money even from 'lively and helpful communities', I prefer calling it 'paid support'. Like I said, Huge Overpriced Advertisement to earn more money for Steve Jobs. Saying Macs don't have decent third-party apps is the same as people crying Linux not having enough apps. Its baseless, because I have always found Linux apps to be much better than their Windows counterparts, and there is no such app I have not found (for anything) Linux apps are better than Windows apps, I completely agree with that statement but I was talking about Mac apps. How many third party apps do you have on a mac? I am sorry, but its really too noobish to say anything is more insecure than Windows. UNIX and its derivatives have always been built with security in mind. Never wondered why the core-servers and massive supercomputers run Linux or UNIX? The Google carpet-bombing issue was heavily debated, and I refrain to comment on that. Apple has always listened to its users (read this thread from the start) and it shows why they have a niche market. If Apple didn't care about security, I am sure no hacker would use a Mac, and we know the blessed ones do exactly the opposite ;-) Apple listens to people only if it helps them in making more money from them, otherwise they completely ignore the issue, they did a stealth install of Safari on Windows machines and now refuse to work on the bugs, because they would not gain any money out of it. Vista totally disappoints. Its a waste of money, hardware, effort. The best option for me is to have the sleekest OS on a machine without paying a penny (Linux), or the sleekest OS and a sleeker machine by paying money (Apple), but definitely not a crappy OS on a humongous machine by paying even more. Ubuntu is a sleek OS and it works great, that's why I have it on my PC but Vista ain't that bad either. If Microsoft sold Vista hardcoded on their own heavily tested branded hardware like mac does, it would've worked exactly like or even better than a Mac. On the other hand, if Mac comes out on a DVD for your existing PC, the kind of criticism it would generate would be enough to send Steve Jobs straight to hell. -- ubuntu-in mailing list ubuntu-in@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-in
Re: [ubuntu-in] Ubuntu on Apple Mac's
[snip] some quick, sobering thoughts: 1) if you like or prefer windows, remember, the macbook is the only laptop (so far) on which you can run mac, win, gnulinux, concurrently. so those choosing mac over win or vice-versa, can choose both. 2) all praise for ubuntu is praise for apple and mac in disguise. mark shuttleworth is 100% inspired by the design and aesthetics and UI-approach of apple. he makes no bones about this. 3) from its inception till its current version and even future versions, windows is completely inspired by apple mac os. study some computer history to discover more. 4) the engineering that has recently gone into mac os X is spectacular. in conclusion: one innovates. the others replicate, in a fashion. i remember someone told me a few years ago apple announced its worldwide developer conference (and incidentally, before the launch of vista). the posters at the conference were big bold, screaming with the headilne seattle, fire up your photocopiers or words to that effect i never verified this personally, just took his word for it. anyways. do remember that such is the power and mystique of apple and the mac, that any discussion around it soon turns from technical and objective, to purely emotional and subjective, and soon passions run high. this alone is a sign of the cultural impact and a measure of the success of apple. in the words of the great design guru dave esslinger: form follows emotion regards niyam -- ubuntu-in mailing list ubuntu-in@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-in
Re: [ubuntu-in] Ubuntu on Apple Mac's
I have nothing against the Mac as an operating system, what I hate is the way it gets handled by Steve Jobs and company. I agree MS copies apple's designs but Windows also makes more money than Apple out of the same stuff and at the same time, it makes the same stuff more popular than apple could ever make it. Simply because apples tries to use most of their devices features towards making more money from their customers. and soon passions run high. this alone is a sign of the cultural impact and a measure of the success of apple. These emotions aren't always positive towards apple, I agree nobody 'likes' Microsoft but for some reason there are many who simply 'hate' apple. And its pretty visible on almost every Group and Community dealing with OSs. -- From: Linux Lingam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 6:31 PM To: Ubuntu India Local Community ubuntu-in@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: [ubuntu-in] Ubuntu on Apple Mac's [snip] some quick, sobering thoughts: 1) if you like or prefer windows, remember, the macbook is the only laptop (so far) on which you can run mac, win, gnulinux, concurrently. so those choosing mac over win or vice-versa, can choose both. 2) all praise for ubuntu is praise for apple and mac in disguise. mark shuttleworth is 100% inspired by the design and aesthetics and UI-approach of apple. he makes no bones about this. 3) from its inception till its current version and even future versions, windows is completely inspired by apple mac os. study some computer history to discover more. 4) the engineering that has recently gone into mac os X is spectacular. in conclusion: one innovates. the others replicate, in a fashion. i remember someone told me a few years ago apple announced its worldwide developer conference (and incidentally, before the launch of vista). the posters at the conference were big bold, screaming with the headilne seattle, fire up your photocopiers or words to that effect i never verified this personally, just took his word for it. anyways. do remember that such is the power and mystique of apple and the mac, that any discussion around it soon turns from technical and objective, in the words of the great design guru dave esslinger: form follows emotion regards niyam -- ubuntu-in mailing list ubuntu-in@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-in -- ubuntu-in mailing list ubuntu-in@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-in
Re: [ubuntu-in] Ubuntu on Apple Mac's
snip 2) all praise for ubuntu is praise for apple and mac in disguise. mark shuttleworth is 100% inspired by the design and aesthetics and UI-approach of apple. he makes no bones about this. /snip Did he say that? How about some link to some article or interview? By the way, Ubuntu's uses GNOME as default desktop which I do not find much similar to Mac OS X. Also Mark Shuttleworth himself does not make many UI related decisions nor he is actively contributing to GNOME project. Apart from that GNOME has been making steady improvements and I don't think the approach has ever been 'we do it like Mac OS X'. Onkar -- ubuntu-in mailing list ubuntu-in@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-in
Re: [ubuntu-in] Ubuntu on Apple Mac's
Mac is a bigger devil than windows, its one big overpriced steve jobs merchandise advertisement that does only what it wants to and what makes more money for Steve Jobs (read itunes). Why aren't there any decent third party apps for Mac, macboys use an excuse that it has everything inbuilt and the same people would curse windows inbuilt IE and WMP as half baked. Its unsecure to the core and more importantly apple doesn't care about security issues (google carpet bombing), the only reason why their loopholes don't come to light is because there are rarely any people you'd find who really made the mistake of buying a mac. if given a choice out of the 2 devils (mac and windows) i'll go with the lesser devil Windows. My dual boot Ubuntu and Vista PC rocks. -- ubuntu-in mailing list ubuntu-in@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-in
Re: [ubuntu-in] Ubuntu on Apple Mac's
[snip] I would like some clarification on what Mr. Slytherin :) has written. Macs are favorites among FOSS developers, but do they use the machine with Linux or with OS X? I have no idea, but you might? some use only gnulinux and/or bsd, but almost all keep their mac osx running in another partition too. what do you think suddenly inspired the massive improvements in the user-interface of gnu/linux?! hehehe just joking And I agree they are grossly overpriced, but getting them from a reseller, rather than an Apple Store, its comes out much cheaper. overpriced even then. Hmm, I must say Niyam's mail has compelled me to throw in my POV, considering the fact I am going thru my 4th sem exams. But what are you trying to say here? Trying to sync ipod with Linux (you know that's easy), or running a Linux-kernel on the ipod? (possible with Rockbox) first, let's talk about running ipod under gnulinux, especially the latest generation. easy? nyah! you need to do an aweful lot of tricky and technical stuff, which non-engineering, non-IT types can't handle. what's easy for you may just be quite tough for a vast majority of people. however, more importantly, in doing so, you are deliberately disobeying apple's end-user agreements, possibly violating DMCA, and tinkering with DRM, all this depending on how far you wish to exert your 'ownership' of 'your' ipod. being treated as a criminal is not my idea of being a customer. so, in purchasing a macbook, do i wish to convey my support with dollars, to a company whose business practices are at times quite anti-customer? I have been going through this debate since the last 2 years now, and its the sole reason why I have stuck to my uber-cool desktop. But if I think, isn't M$ more anti-customer? they don't get no dollars for me. i don't use their stuff, i don't pirate their stuff, i just use 100% gnulinux and follow my bliss. Apple at least does that (I have seen Apple's OS and devices show drastic improvement after every iteration, most of the consumer grievances seem to be sorted out, yet they do keep a few cards to themselves) unlike microsoft, apple is a tad better. which is why am considering them. but they're not exactly 100% sanitized. which is why i stop short. of course, you can pick and choose from within apple. so am definitely not buying an ipod or an iphone, *even* if apple or anyone gives it to me free-of-cost. nevertheless, i do have a few points on why i feel compelled to purchase a macbook running ubuntu, ubuntustudio, and debian, for myself. I shall be grateful if you share some of those compelling reasons with me? I shall have those ready as arguments, when I face my parents :D i don't know if my reasons suit you, but here are a few: 01) great aesthetic design. for me. 02) have used apple products from 1981 (apple II, etc) till 1997-8, even worked as a contributing editor with the macworld section in pcworld magazine. so, am quite familiar and appreciative of apple's vision, engineering, design, and aesthetics. i admire what they do. 03) in my color-tinted perspective of the world, there are only two types of personal computers in the world: mac, and mac-wannabe. sorry! that's just how i see the world. you may read the archives of my macworld columns on similar rants, on my site. 04) ubuntu and debian on macbook rocks for me. 05) from time-to-time i feel the need of another OS, so i may test or use specialist hardware, such as for audio-recording, digitizing, decoding audio-video, midi, color-calibration instruments, etc. alas! hardly any of these 'vertical' solutions and products work on gnulinux yet. have been watching and waiting since almost seven years now. most of these products are compliant with either mac or win. so if i have to choose between these two, i'd rather go for the kinder, softer, gentler, and more foss-friendly apple. 06) less virus attacks on a mac. but hey! i'd only use ubuntu and debian. the mac os is only for situations such as 05) above. 07) a mac is more friendly for creative-professionals. it's engineering gives you low-latencies, the hardware has less electrical noise, better shielding, etc/ 08) easier to find a creative community around the mac, which is great for troubleshooting, tips, techniques, help, support, and more. i have a few more reasons why i would choose a mac, but am pressed for time. regards niyam Cheers! Pratul -- dum vivimus, vivamus 70 72 61 74 75 6C http://pratul.in -- ubuntu-in mailing list ubuntu-in@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-in -- niyam bhushan -- ubuntu-in mailing list ubuntu-in@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-in
Re: [ubuntu-in] Ubuntu on Apple Mac's
Also apple machines always come packed with latest technologies. For ex. they started shipping graphics cards with DVI output interface long time before other vendors. Macbook seems to be favorite among FOSS developers. Check photos from UDS on planet Ubuntu you will know what I mean. As for disadvantage they are overpriced in my opinion. And if you plan to run on linux you will have some binary only driver, mostly graphics card but you may need for wireless too. I would like some clarification on what Mr. Slytherin :) has written. Macs are favorites among FOSS developers, but do they use the machine with Linux or with OS X? I have no idea, but you might? And I agree they are grossly overpriced, but getting them from a reseller, rather than an Apple Store, its comes out much cheaper. --- e) getting the latest generations of apple ipod to work under gnulinux is not so much a technical issue, as apple's extreme reluctance to work with the FOSS community and allow fair enduser rights for all customers. Hmm, I must say Niyam's mail has compelled me to throw in my POV, considering the fact I am going thru my 4th sem exams. But what are you trying to say here? Trying to sync ipod with Linux (you know that's easy), or running a Linux-kernel on the ipod? (possible with Rockbox) so, in purchasing a macbook, do i wish to convey my support with dollars, to a company whose business practices are at times quite anti-customer? I have been going through this debate since the last 2 years now, and its the sole reason why I have stuck to my uber-cool desktop. But if I think, isn't M$ more anti-customer? They practically don't give a damn to what the consumer market says, Apple at least does that (I have seen Apple's OS and devices show drastic improvement after every iteration, most of the consumer grievances seem to be sorted out, yet they do keep a few cards to themselves) nevertheless, i do have a few points on why i feel compelled to purchase a macbook running ubuntu, ubuntustudio, and debian, for myself. I shall be grateful if you share some of those compelling reasons with me? I shall have those ready as arguments, when I face my parents :D Cheers! Pratul -- dum vivimus, vivamus 70 72 61 74 75 6C http://pratul.in -- ubuntu-in mailing list ubuntu-in@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-in
Re: [ubuntu-in] Ubuntu on Apple Mac's
On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 1:59 AM, Ramnarayan. K [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Am interested in user experiences of Ubuntu (and other Linux OS) on Apple Macs-particularly MAC books - both the positives and negatives. also interested in why one should / should not buy a a macbook and run gnu/linux on it, ram you raise some interesting questions, quite a few i've been pondering over. given that gnulinux runs comfortably on macbooks, should i buy one for myself? a) apple has some licenses which are approved by fsf, even though not everything from apple is copyleft. b) apple is supportive of the foss community, the foss community tends to be supportive of apple. yet apple is also a very smart company, plucking the fruits of some foss endeavours for its own good, like the 'apple shake' video-compositing software, and more recently, CUPS, the unix printing system. c) apple has pushed the ugly, greedy, vicious music-industry, kicking and screaming, to online music as a service, and even pushed it to consider selling music without DRM. however, and that is a capital HOWEVER: d) apple severely punishes its own customers, should they attempt to hack their legally-owned iPods, to the extent of even bricking their devices, or legally threatens anyone who tries to offer a muft and mukt version of their iTunes software. google for 'fairplay'. e) getting the latest generations of apple ipod to work under gnulinux is not so much a technical issue, as apple's extreme reluctance to work with the FOSS community and allow fair enduser rights for all customers. e) apple is even more harsh and vengeful with customers who wish to hack and customize their iPhones. web-search for 'brick iPhones'. f) iPhones, as with ipods, are tied-in with online services. unlike with an ipod, that you could legally use without purchasing any music from apple, an iphone ties you in with contracts from companies apple has tied-in with in turn. why is the iphone locked in the first place? so, in purchasing a macbook, do i wish to convey my support with dollars, to a company whose business practices are at times quite anti-customer? nevertheless, i do have a few points on why i feel compelled to purchase a macbook running ubuntu, ubuntustudio, and debian, for myself. regards niyam -- niyam bhushan -- ubuntu-in mailing list ubuntu-in@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-in
Re: [ubuntu-in] Ubuntu on Apple Mac's
On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 1:59 AM, Ramnarayan. K [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Am interested in user experiences of Ubuntu (and other Linux OS) on Apple Macs-particularly MAC books - both the positives and negatives. I don't understand how user experience is going to be different on thse machines than any other. But if you are talking about hardware compatibility then following links might be useful. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBook https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBookPro also interested in why one should / should not buy a a macbook and run gnu/linux on it, Macbook is highly portable because of the small screen size (approx 13.3). And this is very useful when you have to carry it as against the other laptops these days with 17 screen where you need to carry separate bags. Also apple machines always come packed with latest technologies. For ex. they started shipping graphics cards with DVI output interface long time before other vendors. Macbook seems to be favorite among FOSS developers. Check photos from UDS on planet Ubuntu you will know what I mean. As for disadvantage they are overpriced in my opinion. And if you plan to run on linux you will have some binary only driver, mostly graphics card but you may need for wireless too. Hope this helps. Onkar -- ubuntu-in mailing list ubuntu-in@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-in
[ubuntu-in] Ubuntu on Apple Mac's
Hi Am interested in user experiences of Ubuntu (and other Linux OS) on Apple Macs-particularly MAC books - both the positives and negatives. also interested in why one should / should not buy a a macbook and run gnu/linux on it, ram -- ubuntu-in mailing list ubuntu-in@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-in
