Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

C de-Avillez:

The swastika, independent of where/when it was created, now symbolises a
dark time. Some -- myself included -- consider it abhorrent; in my
case, for personal family reasons.


I understand. I have removed it in favour of something less invasive.

First I tried erasing only the swastika, so it was more neutral. But 
then the rounded centred nature of the spider took too much attention 
from the composition. So I have added an "abdomen reflection" to compensate.


And even if we finally decide not to include it on the guide, I have 
uploaded it to Wikimedia, so someone could find use for it.


(https://wiki.ubuntu.com/es20490446e/Reporting%20bugs)



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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

[Alvaro "Effenberg0x0" Leal]

*Alberto: Just wanted to point out that I have never destroyed your work.
If you look at the history of your wiki page (see
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/es20490446e/Reporting%20bugs?action=info
) you
will see that I am NOT the one the Launchpad user who deleted your art.
Looking athis same Log, I see you have reverted the last change and got
back the work you thought you had lost. Good for you.C de-Avillez: You got
it :) It's over for me here. I' ll take it to Community Council.*
On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 8:01 PM C de-Avillez  wrote:

> On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 04:41:19 +0200
> Alberto Salvia Novella  wrote:
>
> > Thomas Ward:
> >  > While the purest form of the swastika comes from non-Nazi religious
> >  > symbols, we should avoid using it because of the way it was twisted
> >  > during the late 30s and 40s.
> >
> > The reason why the swastika is there is because that image is an
> > original blueprint from World War 2, and if you see the rest of
> > blueprints you will realise that the symbol was drawn by the original
> > author in a joky tone. The same as I had put the Microsoft logo there
> > (which curiously looks very likely).
>
> The swastika has to go.
>
> *ANY* religious or political image, logo, or whatever should never be
> used here.
>
> The swastika, independent of where/when it was created, now symbolises a
> dark time. Some -- myself included -- consider it abhorrent; in my
> case, for personal family reasons.
>
> >
> > (https://www.google.es/search?tbm=isch=blueprint+of+victory+wikimedia)
> >
> >
> > Alvaro Leal:
> > > Why did you make a video?
> >
> > Because it's my choice, and you respect that. The same as you respect
> > my work, instead of going and destroying it.
>
> >
> > Because the next email I'm going to read from you is going to have an
> > apology as title.
>
> ? Please calm down both Alvaro and Alberto. You may like videos for
> personal reasons. Others may not. But this does not give any of you the
> right to be offensive.
>
> Cheers,
>
> ..C..
>
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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

[C de-Avillez]

On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 04:41:19 +0200
Alberto Salvia Novella  wrote:

> Thomas Ward:
>  > While the purest form of the swastika comes from non-Nazi religious
>  > symbols, we should avoid using it because of the way it was twisted
>  > during the late 30s and 40s.  
> 
> The reason why the swastika is there is because that image is an 
> original blueprint from World War 2, and if you see the rest of 
> blueprints you will realise that the symbol was drawn by the original 
> author in a joky tone. The same as I had put the Microsoft logo there 
> (which curiously looks very likely).

The swastika has to go. 

*ANY* religious or political image, logo, or whatever should never be
used here.

The swastika, independent of where/when it was created, now symbolises a
dark time. Some -- myself included -- consider it abhorrent; in my
case, for personal family reasons.

> 
> (https://www.google.es/search?tbm=isch=blueprint+of+victory+wikimedia)
> 
> 
> Alvaro Leal:
> > Why did you make a video?  
> 
> Because it's my choice, and you respect that. The same as you respect
> my work, instead of going and destroying it.

> 
> Because the next email I'm going to read from you is going to have an 
> apology as title.

? Please calm down both Alvaro and Alberto. You may like videos for
personal reasons. Others may not. But this does not give any of you the
right to be offensive.

Cheers,

..C..


pgpphiD7bkxE8.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Alberto:

The reason why the swastika is there is because that image is an
original blueprint from World War 2


Forgot to mention that I have no problem changing or removing it if needed.



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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Thomas Ward:
> While the purest form of the swastika comes from non-Nazi religious
> symbols, we should avoid using it because of the way it was twisted
> during the late 30s and 40s.

The reason why the swastika is there is because that image is an 
original blueprint from World War 2, and if you see the rest of 
blueprints you will realise that the symbol was drawn by the original 
author in a joky tone. The same as I had put the Microsoft logo there 
(which curiously looks very likely).


(https://www.google.es/search?tbm=isch=blueprint+of+victory+wikimedia)


Alvaro Leal:

Why did you make a video?


Because it's my choice, and you respect that. The same as you respect my 
work, instead of going and destroying it.


Because the next email I'm going to read from you is going to have an 
apology as title.




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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

[Thomas Ward]

Alright guys let's all calm down and stop sniping at each other, I don't have 
to want to call for moderation of the list again.

That said, I have my own concerns by using the swastika.  While the purest form 
of the swastika comes from non-Nazi religious symbols, we should avoid using it 
because of the way it was twisted during the late 30s and 40s.  Keeping it in 
will cause debates such as these which already started here which should not be 
taking place.

The rule of thumb in the world is "if it will potentially be seen as extremely 
offensive don't even go anywhere near there."  This is the rule which is being 
broken here.

I have yet to review the draft due to time constraints but I feel that a 
majority of the community will agree with me on this one - the swastika is a 
"no go" so it should be pulled from any Ubuntu documentation, draft or not.


Thomas



*Sent from my iPhone.  Please excuse any typos, as they are likely to happen by 
accident.*

> On Apr 26, 2017, at 20:15, Alvaro Effenberg0x0 Leal  
> wrote:
> 
> Why did you make a video? Is this some sort of manifesto or something? Look
> I won' t watch your video, this is not normal. Please write something or
> not, but just please refrain from putting a nazi swastika on Ubuntu Wiki
> and it's over ok? Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 4:51 PM Alberto Salvia Novella <
> es204904...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Alvaro Leal:
>>> I just wanted to say that I can' t believe someone is actually planning
>> to
>>> put a Nazi Swastika in the Ubuntu Wiki. Have you people lost your minds?
>> 
>> My answer:
>> https://youtu.be/aPhefCenly4
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

[Alvaro "Effenberg0x0" Leal]

Why did you make a video? Is this some sort of manifesto or something? Look
I won' t watch your video, this is not normal. Please write something or
not, but just please refrain from putting a nazi swastika on Ubuntu Wiki
and it's over ok? Thanks.



On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 4:51 PM Alberto Salvia Novella <
es204904...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Alvaro Leal:
> > I just wanted to say that I can' t believe someone is actually planning
> to
> > put a Nazi Swastika in the Ubuntu Wiki. Have you people lost your minds?
>
> My answer:
> https://youtu.be/aPhefCenly4
>
>
>
>
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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

[Alvaro "Effenberg0x0" Leal]

I' m sorry, I don' t normally participate on this mailing list and I' m
probably breaking all of your community rules and formatting standards
here. Really sorry about that.

I just wanted to say that I can' t believe someone is actually planning to
put a Nazi Swastika in the Ubuntu Wiki. Have you people lost your minds?

As an Ubuntu Member, I think that' s insane and unprofessional. I think the
Community Council needs to intervene here ASAP (and I ask this mailing list
administrator, whoever it is, to please do so - thank you). I don' t care
about the context, the underlying message, freedom of speech or whatever.
This is unacceptable.

And, as a normal human being on earth in 2017, I find it simply DISGUSTING.
I haven' t seen anything like that ever in the Ubuntu community. I can' t
believe an Ubuntu member thinks this is a good idea for the Ubuntu and QA
community. i
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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

C de-Avillez:
> We should *not* announce how to directly enter a bug in LP.

If the system isn't functional reporting directly to Launchpad would be 
the only available method, although I agree that option should be 
presented as the last resort.


I have clarified it:
(https://wiki.ubuntu.com/es20490446e/Reporting%20bugs#For_unusable_systems)


Peter Matulis:

I personally don't see that image being effective in achieving your
objective. It's a bit sublime. Also, the sauwastika also seems "off"
somehow.


My brother mentioned the same, although he said it was better having 
that than nothing. He said it was a bit hard for him to see the link, 
even when it was there. He also suggested the possibility of making 
something customised.


Perhaps I'm the only person understanding the context of that blueprint, 
as I have seen the rest of them.


Do you feel any of these does it better?
(https://www.google.es/search?tbm=isch=blueprint+of+victory+wikimedia)



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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

[Peter Matulis]

I personally don't see that image being effective in achieving your
objective. It's a bit sublime. Also, the sauwastika also seems "off"
somehow.

On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 4:35 AM, Alberto Salvia Novella <
es204904...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Chris Hermansen has pointed out that one of the problems with reporting
> bugs is that many people won't take the time to file a bug report, but
> instead they would look for a kick work around and never report.
>
> Curiously, when I showed the proposed draft for the bug reporting guide to
> my brother, he mentioned something similar. He said that it would be good
> having something extra for motivating people to report.
>
> I feel those views are pretty accurate. I think many people will only
> report only when it hurts so hard, and only after Ubuntu has been released.
> Then everyone will start complaining about Ubuntu being unstable, but what
> really happened is that nobody reported some of the important issues with
> enough time to fix them.
>
> So I came up with a solution for that, which is to include a poster on the
> bottom of the page, used on World War to encourage workers to pay attention
> to the minor problems.
>
> I think it's an atypical fix, but that it would do well on raising
> awareness about the importance of reporting the bugs.
>
> (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/es20490446e/Reporting%20bugs)
>
>
>
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