Re: URGENT completely crippling regression
On 2019-05-31 22:52, Teo Tei wrote: >> Il giorno ven 31 mag 2019 alle ore 21:43 C de-Avillez >> ha scritto: >>> I started reading the bug, and completely lost interest when I notice >>> the tone used in the description. >> How is that? Seriously, please explain it to me because I don't understand >> it, and it fascinates me every single time (yeah, because it's not the >> first time). Regardless of whether or not you understand it, if it's come up more than once, it's clearly not an uncommon response. I would argue, given that, that to ignore that fact and expect different results is rather illogical. This response is not really strange behavior. If you approach people in attack mode, they're invariably going to get on the defensive. This will not produce the results you're looking for. Ever heard that phrase you can catch more flies with honey? Another way to put it is: just be nice. Even when dealing with a frustrating or difficult situation, you will inevitably get good results by approaching it with a good attitude. Furthermore, the entire Ubuntu community's (that includes you) interactions are governed by the [Ubuntu Code of Conduct][1]. Though you may not have signed the CoC, it is the terms by which you agree to simply by participating in the community. They are not optional. These are the things that allow for civility and productivity. The key points that relate here are to: * be considerate (i.e. think about how others will respond to your tone and the effect it will have on them) * be respectful (i.e. remember that everyone in the community with rare exception is a volunteer and everyone wants the same thing you do: a good experience for the end user) * take responsibility for your words and actions (i.e. try not to participate in behaviors that are going to have a negative impact on others and though you don't have to apologize, it certainly wouldn't hurt) * be collaborative (i.e. work with those folks that could improve the situation rather than working against them) * value consensus (i.e. put this discussion behind us and move forward on getting the problem fixed in a constructive manner) That said, let's work together to get this problem solved, eh? Walter Lapchynski Ubuntu Community Council [1]: https://www.ubuntu.com/community/code-of-conduct -- @wxl | polka.bike C563 CAC5 8BE1 2F22 A49D 68F6 8B57 A48B C4F2 051A -- Ubuntu-quality mailing list Ubuntu-quality@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-quality
Re: URGENT completely crippling regression
On Fri, May 31, 2019 at 10:52 PM Teo Tei wrote: >> I started reading the bug, and completely lost interest when I notice >> the tone used in the description. >> >> -- > > > How is that? Seriously, please explain it to me because I don't understand > it, and it fascinates me every single time (yeah, because it's not the first > time). No, it is not the first time, We have been thru that dance a few times before. And, most of the times, you would end up moderated. And... You would register yourself again to the mailing list under a slightly different name. And keep on the same behaviour. Which is, everywhere, called "mod-evading." Which is usually frowned upon. As you were told many times, at Ubuntu we have a Code of Conduct [1]. Being nice to others is expected; if you cannot be nice, at least be neutral. > How exactly does the tone of a particular person describing an issue affect > how much you care about the issue, which obviously does not affect only that > person but potentially every single user? See the Code of Conduct [1]. > I really don't get it. I understand you can care about a particular issue > more or less based on how much it affects you, for example, or how serious > you consider it to be for users in general, or how likely you are to be able > to contribute yourself to fixing it, or simply your personal interests and > tastes. Absolutely correct, and I absolutely accept that. > And I also understand how you can find the tone of a user complaining about > an issue more or less appropiate, agreeable, or acceptable. Yes. You KNOW that. Again, apart from any other interaction you had with Ubuntu, you know because you have been told many times about it. > But I don't see how on earth one thing would affect the other. I try to put > myself in your position: I imagine I am reading about some malfunctioning of > some software which I'm generally interested in in some way (because I often > contribute to it, or because I'm a user myself, or for whatever reason, > otherwise I wouldn't be reading a bug report in the first place). Now I > imagine the report is written in a way I don't like (maybe I find it > offensive or something, I don't know, just guessing), let's even say I'm > getting the impression that the person writing the bug report is a total > ***hole, I hate that guy, he even *deserves* to be suffering from the issue! > However, I don't see how that would cause me to care any less about the issue > itself. Personally, if anything, it could only make me care more, given it > would demonstrate how frustrating it can be to users suffering from it. Or > not, but in the worst case, it would make no difference whatsoever. Why would I help somebody that, from the start, is aggressive (as far as I understand it)? My experience is it *rarely* ends in a good way. And, a long time ago, I decided I did not need to deal with these situations. > I would really love to learn about your thought process, understand this > connection between how a bug report is written (specifically the "tone": not > even the quality or quantity of the information contained in it) and how > anybody should care about that bug. Again, it fascinates me. It's a mystery. It is a simple thought process. I am a volunteer. I help on Ubuntu because I like Ubuntu. And I have been thru many other distros in all the years I have used Linux. Ubuntu was the *first* one (apart from all other merits) that actually stated it would be good for all if everybody were to be nice (I accept neutral) to each other. For the record, while I was actually working as tech support, whenever we received a bug report like yours we would *immediately* report it to the OP's management. This was an order from our top management. So I am picky. I can understand if an OP slips and gets aggressive once, perhaps twice. But you have a LONG story of being aggressive from start, and keeping on it. So I allow myself to completely disregard you *while* you keep off the CoC. *You* think you can disrespect others (and the whole idea of the CoC). *I* think I can disregard folks like you. It is not a mystery. People are different. For you, being not nice seems to be a way of living. For me, being nice also seems to be a way of living. Also, just as an aside, you might get a better response to your bug if re-word it in a nice way. There are many ways to state you have unhappy. NONE need to be aggressive, in tone or words. I note, just for the record, that I *am* answering you. But only because you kept a civil discourse. Cheers, ..C.. [1] https://www.ubuntu.com/community/code-of-conduct -- ..hggdh.. -- Ubuntu-quality mailing list Ubuntu-quality@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-quality
Re: URGENT completely crippling regression
I can understand your frustration with the error that you've run into, but please consider the fact the majority of people on this mailing list and grooming the bug reports are volunteers. Potentially, there could be some translation or cultural differences to consider here, but many people would interpret your use of strong language to be offensive or even abusive. Getting to your issue, did gnome, mutter, or gdm get updated recently? On 5/31/19 3:52 PM, Teo Tei wrote: I don't know why, not only "reply" doesn't reply to the list by default, but the option to reply to the list doesn't even show up in gmail. Anyway: Il giorno sab 1 giu 2019 alle ore 00:50 Teo Tei ha scritto: Il giorno ven 31 mag 2019 alle ore 21:43 C de-Avillez ha scritto: I started reading the bug, and completely lost interest when I notice the tone used in the description. -- How is that? Seriously, please explain it to me because I don't understand it, and it fascinates me every single time (yeah, because it's not the first time). How exactly does the tone of a particular person describing an issue affect how much you care about the issue, which obviously does not affect only that person but potentially every single user? I really don't get it. I understand you can care about a particular issue more or less based on how much it affects you, for example, or how serious you consider it to be for users in general, or how likely you are to be able to contribute yourself to fixing it, or simply your personal interests and tastes. And I also understand how you can find the tone of a user complaining about an issue more or less appropiate, agreeable, or acceptable. But I don't see how on earth one thing would affect the other. I try to put myself in your position: I imagine I am reading about some malfunctioning of some software which I'm generally interested in in some way (because I often contribute to it, or because I'm a user myself, or for whatever reason, otherwise I wouldn't be reading a bug report in the first place). Now I imagine the report is written in a way I don't like (maybe I find it offensive or something, I don't know, just guessing), let's even say I'm getting the impression that the person writing the bug report is a total ***hole, I hate that guy, he even *deserves* to be suffering from the issue! However, I don't see how that would cause me to care any less about the issue itself. Personally, if anything, it could only make me care more, given it would demonstrate how frustrating it can be to users suffering from it. Or not, but in the worst case, it would make no difference whatsoever. I would really love to learn about your thought process, understand this connection between how a bug report is written (specifically the "tone": not even the quality or quantity of the information contained in it) and how anybody should care about that bug. Again, it fascinates me. It's a mystery. -- Regards, Robert -- Ubuntu-quality mailing list Ubuntu-quality@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-quality
Re: URGENT completely crippling regression
Everyone, On Fri., May 31, 2019, 11:54 Teo Tei, wrote: > Hello, > > Please see this bug report, this makes many basic applications in Ubuntu > completely unusable: > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/1831280 > > I haven't restarted my computer yet, I don't know if the issue would > disappear after a reboot, and reappear only sporadically, or not. > > Either way, it needs very urgent attention. > > It must have been introduced by some recent update (again, unless it's > something that happens randomly and sporadically and by mere chance I'm hit > now for the first time). > Could this be the issue https://blogs.gnome.org/aday/2018/10/09/farewell-application-menus/ I haven't been following the progress of this issue so please forgive me if I'm out to lunch here. Chris -- Ubuntu-quality mailing list Ubuntu-quality@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-quality
Re: URGENT completely crippling regression
I don't know why, not only "reply" doesn't reply to the list by default, but the option to reply to the list doesn't even show up in gmail. Anyway: Il giorno sab 1 giu 2019 alle ore 00:50 Teo Tei ha scritto: > > > Il giorno ven 31 mag 2019 alle ore 21:43 C de-Avillez > ha scritto: > >> I started reading the bug, and completely lost interest when I notice >> the tone used in the description. >> >> -- >> > > How is that? Seriously, please explain it to me because I don't understand > it, and it fascinates me every single time (yeah, because it's not the > first time). > > How exactly does the tone of a particular person describing an issue > affect how much you care about the issue, which obviously does not affect > only that person but potentially every single user? > > I really don't get it. I understand you can care about a particular issue > more or less based on how much it affects you, for example, or how serious > you consider it to be for users in general, or how likely you are to be > able to contribute yourself to fixing it, or simply your personal > interests and tastes. > And I also understand how you can find the tone of a user complaining > about an issue more or less appropiate, agreeable, or acceptable. > But I don't see how on earth one thing would affect the other. I try to > put myself in your position: I imagine I am reading about some > malfunctioning of some software which I'm generally interested in in some > way (because I often contribute to it, or because I'm a user myself, or for > whatever reason, otherwise I wouldn't be reading a bug report in the first > place). Now I imagine the report is written in a way I don't like (maybe I > find it offensive or something, I don't know, just guessing), let's even > say I'm getting the impression that the person writing the bug report is a > total ***hole, I hate that guy, he even *deserves* to be suffering from the > issue! However, I don't see how that would cause me to care any less about > the issue itself. Personally, if anything, it could only make me care more, > given it would demonstrate how frustrating it can be to users suffering > from it. Or not, but in the worst case, it would make no difference > whatsoever. > > I would really love to learn about your thought process, understand this > connection between how a bug report is written (specifically the "tone": > not even the quality or quantity of the information contained in it) and > how anybody should care about that bug. Again, it fascinates me. It's a > mystery. > -- Ubuntu-quality mailing list Ubuntu-quality@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-quality
Re: URGENT completely crippling regression
On Fri, May 31, 2019 at 7:30 PM Teo Tei wrote: > > Hello, > > Please see this bug report, this makes many basic applications in Ubuntu > completely unusable: > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/1831280 > > I haven't restarted my computer yet, I don't know if the issue would > disappear after a reboot, and reappear only sporadically, or not. > > Either way, it needs very urgent attention. > > It must have been introduced by some recent update (again, unless it's > something that happens randomly and sporadically and by mere chance I'm hit > now for the first time). I started reading the bug, and completely lost interest when I notice the tone used in the description. -- ..hggdh.. -- Ubuntu-quality mailing list Ubuntu-quality@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-quality
URGENT completely crippling regression
Hello, Please see this bug report, this makes many basic applications in Ubuntu completely unusable: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/1831280 I haven't restarted my computer yet, I don't know if the issue would disappear after a reboot, and reappear only sporadically, or not. Either way, it needs very urgent attention. It must have been introduced by some recent update (again, unless it's something that happens randomly and sporadically and by mere chance I'm hit now for the first time). -- Ubuntu-quality mailing list Ubuntu-quality@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-quality
