Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
Am 23.05.2013 06:17, schrieb Len Ovens: On Wed, May 22, 2013 3:52 pm, Hartmut Noack wrote: For what kind of professional audio, graphic, photographers and video creation tool is pulseaudio useful ;)? Broadcast. It is good for remote content transport as suggested by the EBU. They do not talk about pulseaudio specifically, but the methods they do suggest can at this time only be done that way. Pulseaudio is also good for use with client show and tell... the client comes in and says, I saw this thing on U tube... I understand you have had trouble with PA... Not that long ago it did have many problems. But at this time, I would say that a PA-jack bridge is easier to set up and use than ALSA loop backs. Also many of the MP3 players or CD playing SW do not play well with Jack. (I don't know any) That is my experience too. Once jack is started and the pulse-jack-bridge runs, all audio-trouble is gone. Any sane audio-application supports either Jack or PA automatically. And I cannot see, that the PA-bridge increases the rate of xruns(as of now I have zero of them while experimenting with Guitarix and Qtractor and watching YT-videos as well (*videos *with* audio that is...). It should be easier to disable PA to a near-removed status though Unload module-jackdbus-detect: pactl unload-module module-jackdbus-detect PA still takes up memory, but uses almost no cpu without that module. The CPU-load would be tolerable, the problem is, what PA+dbus do at startup. Is there a way to blacklist interfaces? Some command like : PA do not touch that device!? best regards HZN -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 10:32 PM, Kaj Ailomaa zeque...@mousike.me wrote It's just a fact. Ubuntu Studio is not a only a pro audio orientated distribution. We currently have audio, video, graphics, publishing and photography as our range of workflows. You may check out this to read more about that http://ubuntustudio.org/tour/ The job for Ubuntu Studio has never been to be a customized distribution for pro audio. Rather, the idea of Ubuntu Studio from the start has been to be an example - a showcase, of what regular Ubuntu can do, with a nice selection of multimedia applications, configurations - and since linux-generic doesn't cut it, we have linux-lowlatency in its place. If what you want is a hardcore pro audio orientated distribution, for example something based on Ubuntu, where some applications have been patched - in other words, recoded, then KXStudio is a much better choice. KXStudio is a custom distro in this way. Ubuntu Studio is not, and doesn't try to be. That I fully understand, I never wrote or expected US to be audio only. I believe the strength is that is is all those things. What I wondered was why it wouldn't be pro. I also added that the audio parts was the only thing I have some knowledge about which is why I only commented about those parts. And thanks for the somewhat condescending link to the tour of Ubuntu Studio. I have been using US since 8.04 and yeah perhaps I don't watch the whole tour every time I upgrade. I'm a bit confused by the showcase remark. To follow that thread once you have seen what you can do with regular Ubuntu, you should then move to regular Ubuntu and the US work is done? I have been looking at Ubuntu Studio as its own distribution, not a commercial for regular Ubuntu. The DE doesn't have that much of an impact on performance most of the time. This may have more to do with graphic drivers and desktop FX. I notice a big difference in performance on my laptop at least, depending on what DE I use. Not being able to code I don't know how to contribute even though I really would like to? Other than participating in the mailing list that is. You don't need to know how to code in order to help. Coding is not the main thing we do. Just read http://ubuntustudio.org/contribute/ Which I did, that's how I found this mailing list. But from what I seen so far it's not really inviting to try do more, so perhaps after 5 years of US I will look into KXstudio on another platform instead. /Jimmy -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
Am 23.05.2013 11:20, schrieb Ralf Mardorf: Valid for home usage does mean to be able to edit a video with a professional work flow, without crashing all the times etc. pp.. This describes what I do occasionally for many hours without any crashes with KDEnlive. Regarding the professional workflow that is in fact just the usual workflow I presented both CinelerraCV and KDEnlive to a filmmaker, who is a friend of mine. He makes Movies for Cinema and TV, has studied it to the full at Babelsberg. He told me, that both programs work fine for him as long as cutting is concerned. He also told me, that the material edited in these Programs would need to be processed on more professional gear for toning/retouching the lighting. He also told me, that he never ever would consider to do the latter on his Mac, thats a job for dedicated workstations he stated apodyctically. And he was quite impressed how much one can do for the soundtrack when working with Xjadeo and Ardour. Btw. the myths that Blender is everything that's needed to make 3D animations is also nonsense. In addition not only a NLVE is missing, but also some other options, e.g. automatically lip sync (at least it was missing, I don't know if they have included it yet). Try to find out, what other NLVE was used in making the Blender Movies, especially Mango: I fail to find those tools in the project description: http://mango.blender.org/about/ They only mention free software on Linux, though shamefully get the music from external sources that use whatever else AFAIK Blender can be and is used for professional and good home videos, but it's just one production tool of many production tools. It is used to produce full-fledged Motion Pictures that look much more professional than many commercial Movies released on DVD. Unlikely that I'll have that kind of films you're talking about. If I watch films made in the USA, than more or less only films from people like the Coen brothers, Jim Jarmusch etc. and I usually don't own those films on DVDs or any other media. But again, first of all it's a myth that many films were produced using Linux only Feel free to believe, what you was programmed to believe(to have a Futurama-Quote at last in this thread ;-) ) and second, I'm talking about software that, with certain qualifications, can be used at home, at least with better home PCs. Try KDEnlive, just as is, without all the tweaking, it just works. For me claims that Linux is professional, is the more out of reason for people who prefer averaged Hollywood movies, In terms of craft Avatar or LOTR or Cloud Atlas are the reference. No country for old men is a reference too for its genuine 80ies feel but many movies like Ghost Dog and the like have their qualities in photography, play, script and so on, in technical terms they are simple. If you have a photographer, actors and script in the league of Ghost Dog or Blue in the face you can make such movies and cut them on Linux with free software. averaged chart music. For the kind of art I like to do, at least for music, I can use Linux, but for people who want to do this mainstream stuff, all the tools are missing. We for example don't have auto-tune for Linux. You talk about the middle-class, not the top-notch. The latter care for songs, skill and personality of musicians, concepts and ideas to produce albums that last. And the technical aspect how to record comes last. Some of the greatest recordings of the last 20 years where recorded onto analogue tape, some on 4-track machines, some even on 2-track. All much less than a Linux-computer with a Hammerfall running Ardour. Back to the topic ;). I guess KDE 4 can be used to provide a sane work flow for audio production, but Unity and GNOME 3 don't provide a common work flow for this task. Xfce, LXDE, KDE = sane. Unity, e17 and GNOME 3 = insane. Insane is a bit harsh but the wording aside I agree. However, the work flow to make a home video in a Roland Emmerich style, does differ to making a home video in a Jim Jarmusch style. The latter is much easier, that is correct. The same for audio, e.g. The Black Eyed Peas differ a lot to Motor City Hardrock from the 70s. Different musicians, working differently, that is all. The flexibility to provide the fitting workflow is in the producer, not in his/her software. Rockbands still work today, in new ways and in the old ways alike, many of the best 70ies-Rock Albums are made in the last 5 years. And of course they do not use Ardour. Because Ardour on Linux is not a product. Mixbus is one, and so it is used. That is the difference: not quality, reliability or flexibility, The question is just: is it a product that is acclaimed in the industry. And: is there a product with even more acclamation (got Sequoia, but Protools could be more of a product right?). best regards HZN -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Thu, 2013-05-23 at 12:19 +0200, Hartmut Noack wrote: Some of the greatest recordings of the last 20 years where recorded onto analogue tape, some on 4-track machines, some even on 2-track. All much less than a Linux-computer with a Hammerfall running Ardour. My 4-Track was much better, than my current Hammerfall Linux machine is :(. I hope this will change in the near future. -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
Am 23.05.2013 12:47, schrieb Ralf Mardorf: On Thu, 2013-05-23 at 12:19 +0200, Hartmut Noack wrote: Some of the greatest recordings of the last 20 years where recorded onto analogue tape, some on 4-track machines, some even on 2-track. All much less than a Linux-computer with a Hammerfall running Ardour. My 4-Track was much better, than my current Hammerfall Linux machine is :(. I hope this will change in the near future. You cannot even record 4 discrete tracks with your Hammerfall with more than 14bit? Sad thing indeed ;-) -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Thu, 2013-05-23 at 12:54 +0200, Hartmut Noack wrote: Am 23.05.2013 12:47, schrieb Ralf Mardorf: On Thu, 2013-05-23 at 12:19 +0200, Hartmut Noack wrote: Some of the greatest recordings of the last 20 years where recorded onto analogue tape, some on 4-track machines, some even on 2-track. All much less than a Linux-computer with a Hammerfall running Ardour. My 4-Track was much better, than my current Hammerfall Linux machine is :(. I hope this will change in the near future. You cannot even record 4 discrete tracks with your Hammerfall with more than 14bit? Sad thing indeed ;-) I can do this, but ... - with huge latency - always the risk to get audible xruns (at least more often than I got audible drop outs for the 4-track) - sync between MIDI equipment and audio recordings can't compare to sync by SMPTE (Atari ST) or even click (C64). Qtractor for example even is very coarse regarding to latency compensation for the audio recordings. And FWIW I still only can use 2 of the 8 ADAT channels. Yesterday I tested all 8 ADAT IOs on Windows again. I know how to use TotalMix. The 8 ADAT channels aren't available for Linux. I only can use the 2 analog IOs and 2 ADAT IOs. It's said that I'm an annoying idiot, this should be untrue, I'm a liar ... blabla ... but this is what happens here. Nobody who dissed me is willing to send me a mixer file that does work with the 8 ADAT channels on their machines, when using the same card ;). Isn't this unsocial? However, I'll take a look again, if I make something wrong with TotalMix for Linux, since the last two years I own the card. I installed Windows some days ago and already was able, within seconds, to use TotalMix Windows. The two versions are different! So it might be, that I'm doing something wrong. I should stop mailing now, make my office work and then test the card, at least if the sample frequencies will work using the hint I got yesterday. -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Thu, May 23, 2013, at 11:20 AM, Jimmy Sjölund wrote: On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 10:32 PM, Kaj Ailomaa zeque...@mousike.me wrote It's just a fact. Ubuntu Studio is not a only a pro audio orientated distribution. We currently have audio, video, graphics, publishing and photography as our range of workflows. You may check out this to read more about that http://ubuntustudio.org/tour/ The job for Ubuntu Studio has never been to be a customized distribution for pro audio. Rather, the idea of Ubuntu Studio from the start has been to be an example - a showcase, of what regular Ubuntu can do, with a nice selection of multimedia applications, configurations - and since linux-generic doesn't cut it, we have linux-lowlatency in its place. If what you want is a hardcore pro audio orientated distribution, for example something based on Ubuntu, where some applications have been patched - in other words, recoded, then KXStudio is a much better choice. KXStudio is a custom distro in this way. Ubuntu Studio is not, and doesn't try to be. That I fully understand, I never wrote or expected US to be audio only. I believe the strength is that is is all those things. What I wondered was why it wouldn't be pro. I also added that the audio parts was the only thing I have some knowledge about which is why I only commented about those parts. And thanks for the somewhat condescending link to the tour of Ubuntu Studio. I have been using US since 8.04 and yeah perhaps I don't watch the whole tour every time I upgrade. I wasn't intending to be condescending. From how you worded it, it seemed to me you viewed Ubuntu Studio as a pro audio distribution, which of course is one of the aspects of what it is. I'm a bit confused by the showcase remark. To follow that thread once you have seen what you can do with regular Ubuntu, you should then move to regular Ubuntu and the US work is done? I have been looking at Ubuntu Studio as its own distribution, not a commercial for regular Ubuntu. The work that we do is to make the distro suitable for multimedia content creation, and push changes upstream. Meaning, we make the change not only in Ubuntu Studio, but in this order - 1. The upstream application, 2. Debian, 3. Ubuntu 4. Ubuntu Studio. The more upstream the change is, the more people will benefit from it. Let's also draw a line between two words: Canonical, and Ubuntu. They are not the same thing. Ubuntu Studio is Ubuntu, just like all flavors are Ubuntu, including Ubuntu itself. Ubuntu Studio is not working at promoting Canonical. What Ubuntu Studio does is promotes free software based on Debian, where the system base is maintained by Canonical (the main repository). All of the Ubuntu Studio specific source is in the universe repository, which is community maintained. That means us, you and me. The DE doesn't have that much of an impact on performance most of the time. This may have more to do with graphic drivers and desktop FX. I notice a big difference in performance on my laptop at least, depending on what DE I use. Not being able to code I don't know how to contribute even though I really would like to? Other than participating in the mailing list that is. You don't need to know how to code in order to help. Coding is not the main thing we do. Just read http://ubuntustudio.org/contribute/ Which I did, that's how I found this mailing list. But from what I seen so far it's not really inviting to try do more, so perhaps after 5 years of US I will look into KXstudio on another platform instead. Why is that? Because we discuss things openly, and encourage users to participate in a very non elitist way - suggesting that you don't actually need to know anything to help out, and that you have the freedom to work independently, as long as you aren't breaking anything for anyone else? Or is it just that you find my answer to your post discouraging? You may find me speaking not very diplomatically at times, but that has no effect on the development of Ubuntu Studio as long as you realize it's just a tone of voice, nothing else. I may not be the most diplomatic voice in the community, but I do try to stick to fairness and truth. I'm also working very hard to get more people involved. As a project leader of Ubuntu Studio, my goal is not to develop the OS for my own needs - I use Debian with Gnome3 and a custom kernel myself. My goal is to make it work for everyone. Not everyone works from this aspect. Most are more interested in working at things that benefit themselves more directly. This is quite ok. There's room for every kind of personality, and choice of interest - as long as it doesn't break things for other people. One thing that you might notice though, reading these posts is that though many people have opinions on how to develop Ubuntu Studio, few of the people actually are doing it. And this is a very important
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
One thing that you might notice though, reading these posts is that though many people have opinions on how to develop Ubuntu Studio, few of the people actually are doing it. And this is a very important point. If you want something done, you can actually do it yourself. And that's how you participate. Just want to quickly add, that of course giving feedback and opinions is a very valid way to participate also, but if you want to be able to influence the development of Ubuntu Studio - the best way is to get down and dirty with it yourself. Just badly worded on my part. -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On May 23, 2013 2:35 PM, lukefro...@hushmail.com wrote: Surely there are more people who want to make US work with any particular desktop I have always just used the applications with whatever DE I have wanted... Ubuntu studio uses xfce. That is what we mostly test for. There is nothing we do that should prevent the packages from working with whatever to want to use. I'll try and look more closely at this thread, but, what is the issue? It should be as simple as installing the applications you want to use. Think of it this way... Install what you want.. Kubuntu, for example.. It Ubuntu and add KDE... Install what specific apps you want. Then, you are not using Ubuntu studio... You are using the audio/video applications you want with the DE you want. You can take advantage of the Ubuntu/Ubuntu studio packages with whatever you want. You are welcome and encouraged to do so... But, you are not running Ubuntu studio at that point. Still, it should be as easy as installing what you want and configuring... What are the specific issues that are preventing that? Cheers! than there are desktops! I did the Cinnamon work myself for the legacy desktop, simply so I could use it Have all the necessary files to make it work. Only hassle is that the Cinnamon menus for some reason ignore the UbuntuStudio A/V submenus, instead putting all the A/V apps into sound and video no matter what you do in the menu editor. The submenus show up in the menu editor, so my guess it its just a Cinnamon bug that will eventually be taken care of. Anyone else wants to use Cinnamon in UbuntuStudio, I have what you need at least for the legacy themes, can send out tar.gz files. I recommend it only for relatively powerful machines with modern graphics cards and multicore processors. All this stuff works with MATE, too, been there, tested that. It will run on slower machines, but Cinnamon get sluggish, especially in the menu, on Pentium 4 or Intel Atom. This is inherited from the upstream gnome-shell it seems. On 05/23/2013 at 12:17 PM, Kaj Ailomaa zeque...@mousike.me wrote: One thing that you might notice though, reading these posts is that though many people have opinions on how to develop Ubuntu Studio, few of the people actually are doing it. And this is a very important point. If you want something done, you can actually do it yourself. And that's how you participate. Just want to quickly add, that of course giving feedback and opinions is a very valid way to participate also, but if you want to be able to influence the development of Ubuntu Studio - the best way is to get down and dirty with it yourself. Just badly worded on my part. -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Thu, May 23, 2013, at 08:48 PM, Mike Holstein wrote: On May 23, 2013 2:35 PM, lukefro...@hushmail.com wrote: Surely there are more people who want to make US work with any particular desktop I have always just used the applications with whatever DE I have wanted... Ubuntu studio uses xfce. That is what we mostly test for. There is nothing we do that should prevent the packages from working with whatever to want to use. I'll try and look more closely at this thread, but, what is the issue? It should be as simple as installing the applications you want to use. Think of it this way... Install what you want.. Kubuntu, for example.. It Ubuntu and add KDE... Install what specific apps you want. Then, you are not using Ubuntu studio... You are using the audio/video applications you want with the DE you want. You can take advantage of the Ubuntu/Ubuntu studio packages with whatever you want. You are welcome and encouraged to do so... But, you are not running Ubuntu studio at that point. Still, it should be as easy as installing what you want and configuring... What are the specific issues that are preventing that? Cheers! Recently, we have begun work on looking at if we can add more desktop metas to our set of installable meta packages. Nothing decided yet, and nothing ready to even try out so far. The Gnome desktop seems not usable at this stage in saucy. KDE is planned. Both LXDE and Unity have been talked about. The idea is that if we do offer more than one choice, XFCE will be the default, but the user can choose another DE during installation. Each DE needs a developer. So, if no one is interested in doing a Unity variant, for instance, then there won't be one. Right now, we have people working at enabling Gnome3 and KDE. -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
I heard Kdenlive has 30+ developers, meaning it would be a full-time job or more for one person to write another video editor as capable as Kdenlive from scratch. This kind of collaboration makes FOSS programs or of course the whole OS distros possible. With enough people each working a small part of the problem as a hobby or because they just plain need to use it, the job gets done. Example: Someone on the MLT project managed to write code to use GLSL shader language directly, bypassing all that OpenCL development that is nowhere near done for open drivers. Shotcut, which is based on GPU Compute, can now use that code, and also gives excellent OpenGL playback of XML files generated by Kdenlive. I doubt it will be long before the new MLT capablities exposed by Shotcut find their way into Kdenlive. If not, Shotcut can do things Kdenlive can't do yet, such as good interpolation of clips shot at too low a framerate. On the other hand, Shotcut works more like Avidemux than an NLE, so I only know how to use it on individual clips, a finished render or on one of Kdenlive's XML project tiles. If the Shotcut and Kdenlive teams ever merged, I suspect one hell of a video editor would come from that mating, one as good as anything on the market. The real hard work for GPU computer has already been done, after all. Needless to say, Kdenlive, Shotcut, MLT, and ffmpeg/avconv are all free projects! clip On 05/23/2013 at 5:21 AM, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote: Programming NLVE is very time consuming, IOW expensive, so it's hard to do for free. There is NLVE software for Windows and OsX machines that already can be used with averaged home PCs. clip -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Thu, May 23, 2013, at 08:35 PM, lukefro...@hushmail.com wrote: Surely there are more people who want to make US work with any particular desktop than there are desktops! I did the Cinnamon work myself for the legacy desktop, simply so I could use it Have all the necessary files to make it work. Only hassle is that the Cinnamon menus for some reason ignore the UbuntuStudio A/V submenus, instead putting all the A/V apps into sound and video no matter what you do in the menu editor. The submenus show up in the menu editor, so my guess it its just a Cinnamon bug that will eventually be taken care of. Anyone else wants to use Cinnamon in UbuntuStudio, I have what you need at least for the legacy themes, can send out tar.gz files. I recommend it only for relatively powerful machines with modern graphics cards and multicore processors. All this stuff works with MATE, too, been there, tested that. It will run on slower machines, but Cinnamon get sluggish, especially in the menu, on Pentium 4 or Intel Atom. This is inherited from the upstream gnome-shell it seems. If you like, you can work at adding a Cinnamon based meta for Ubuntu Studio. It's not that big of a deal really, once you learn what you need to know. You'll need a launchpad account, and a development release install to do the coding. Testing can be done either on a separate testing partition, or on a Virtual Machine. Both could be virtual, if you like. Here's something I wrote about getting started https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/SetupDeveloperEnvironment -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Thu, May 23, 2013 11:35 am, lukefro...@hushmail.com wrote: Surely there are more people who want to make US work with any particular desktop than there are desktops! I did the Cinnamon work myself for the legacy desktop, simply so I could use it Have all the necessary files to make it work. Only hassle is that the Cinnamon menus for some reason ignore the UbuntuStudio A/V submenus, instead putting all the A/V apps into sound and video no matter what you do in the menu editor. That is what I have been working on as happens. The Studio custom A/V menus are right now specific to xfce. I am working to break the Studio menu into three parts. The stock menu that the DE comes with, a static (I hope) studio specific base menu to hold everything in and the A/V block. This is what has lead me to start looking at various DEs to see what my mods are going to do to them. It is why I want to know what makes KDE, KDE to the user. What makes gnome shell what someone wants to use. I could set KDE up to look not much different from xfce does and gnome2 did, but why? I can set up KDE to list apps and launch them in at least 5 different ways... there are at least two more methods of just launching using a search method or a run box as well. Then there is the whole activities setup which could be very useful in setting up workflows if used right. It could also be a big fail if used in the wrong manner. lxde, is going to be the most like xfce, in fact lubuntu uses quite a lot of xfce utilities in the background. The menu will likely be almost identical. It would probably be the easiest DE to include, the challenge would be to actually keep it light. Just starting kdenlive for example, starts a lot of KDE background tasks... and those tasks don't go away just because kdenlive is closed. So there may in fact be a DE that is best suited to any one workflow. That is, someone doing a video workflow may find that xfce is not the best DE to use and that the programs they are using run better and more reliably on something else. There are things missing in xfce like colour correction, that KDE has, gnome has, unity has. The goal is to make any app work well with any DE. However, depending on the user's HW and the apps used that may not be possible or even testable. We can only test on the machines we have and people with a high interest in one kind of creation tend to buy machines that work best there. I buy looking for low latency in the MB and the ability to work with my audio card or an audio card I am interested in, the most basic video card is fine. Someone in visual creation will be looking at monitors, stylus pads, and graphic cards, audio may only be for entertainment for them. Anyway, assuming Cinnamon uses the gnome menu style of old, it should be easy to add in the A/V menu overlay with that DE too. (easy doesn't mean no work :) -- Len Ovens www.OvenWerks.net -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
