Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] wineasio interesting app

[eylul]

On 04/01/2018 06:51 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> Hi,
>
> since building QjackCtl is easy to do, the rules and control files at
> https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/qjackctl are helpful to do this, for
> testing purpose consider to build a snap for QjackCtl, for usage with
> jackd/bus and jack clients, from the regular install, outside of the
> QjackCtl snap container.

This is good advice thanks!

> Suggestions based on hearsay, without any efforts to provide results,
> often tends to be close to bikeshedding. Before building a wineasio
> snap, try to find out why building wineasio has got tendencies to fail,
> maybe the issues are from that kind, that building it with it's own
> dependencies gains you nothing and first learn to build a snap for
> something real-time audio related that is easy to build, but requires
> communication via ALSA or jackd with clients and/or hardware.
>
> Regards,
> Ralf
>

While I don't want to single out Ralf, I am going to not ignore this
because this is something that does come up on FLOSS projects often.
Giving a partial answer and a place to start is not to making
suggestions based on hearsay. This type of gatekeeping comments, while
well meaning is what keeps especially beginners and intermediate skilled
people from sticking around long enough to gain more experience. That in
return results in volunteer attrition and as prevents knowledge from
being communicated. Let's try not to do that. Either way part of the
question was how to make something available for ubuntu studio users to
install via repos, and that was the answer to that part of the question.
These are the options. Whether which of them are technically viable is
the following question to answer.

Thanks :)

Best

Eylul


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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] wineasio interesting app

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Sun, 1 Apr 2018 18:12:55 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>PS: I got my hands dirty, trying to build a snap for QjackCtl, but
>including jackd. This was a long time ago, nowadays doing connections
>between the snap and the host Linux likely has improved a lot.
>
>The thread is at
>https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/snapcraft/2016-July/000394.html it's

Oops, the first link should read
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/snapcraft/2016-July/ .

>"Is there a German howto/documentation for snapcraft?", IOW it's
>https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/snapcraft/2016-July/000394.html and
>follow-ups.

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] wineasio interesting app

[Ralf Mardorf]

PS: I got my hands dirty, trying to build a snap for QjackCtl, but
including jackd. This was a long time ago, nowadays doing connections
between the snap and the host Linux likely has improved a lot.

The thread is at
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/snapcraft/2016-July/000394.html it's
"Is there a German howto/documentation for snapcraft?", IOW it's
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/snapcraft/2016-July/000394.html and
follow-ups.

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] wineasio interesting app

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Sun, 1 Apr 2018 18:21:12 +0300, eylul wrote:
>Of course there is also the option of snap packages that can be worth
>investigating.  

Hi,

since building QjackCtl is easy to do, the rules and control files at
https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/qjackctl are helpful to do this, for
testing purpose consider to build a snap for QjackCtl, for usage with
jackd/bus and jack clients, from the regular install, outside of the
QjackCtl snap container.

>I hope this is helpful and not discouraging.

Suggestions based on hearsay, without any efforts to provide results,
often tends to be close to bikeshedding. Before building a wineasio
snap, try to find out why building wineasio has got tendencies to fail,
maybe the issues are from that kind, that building it with it's own
dependencies gains you nothing and first learn to build a snap for
something real-time audio related that is easy to build, but requires
communication via ALSA or jackd with clients and/or hardware.

Regards,
Ralf

-- 
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4.15.15-1
4.14.29_rt25-1
4.14.28_rt23-1
4.14.24_rt19-1
4.14.8_rt9-2

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] wineasio interesting app

[eylul]

Hi!

We are not dependent on xubuntu specifically. All the flavors have
access to the whole ubuntu repository. Some of our desktop side setup
inherits xubuntu packages as we use xfce. If wineasio is available on
ubuntu repos, users at least should be able to install it.

Generally the bottom line problem with any of these issues (similar to
the earlier comment about cadence, I'd honestly love to see Carla and
Godot game engine in repos too) we need someone to package them, for
debian or ubuntu.

Packaging for debian is a tricky issue. 1) We need people with
experience to package these programs. Ideally we should hold a workshop
to get more people trained in this sooner than later (I know I was
hoping for that when I joined the team but due to various reasons that
didn't happen :) ) but none of the programs mentioned above are easy,
introduction level cases. 2) Debian requirements can be strict and that
can conflict with some features of some of these programs. Also
sometimes new software or updates with substantial changes can take a
while to get approved as there needs to be a manual review of the
submitted packages. (People on mailing list might remember the issue
with Krita package)

If debian repos is not possible, it is possible to sometimes put things
directly into ubuntu repos. This is done on a case by case basis. We
could talk to Kubuntu team to learn about details of this procedure as
they do maintain a kubuntu repo.

I would be willing to help doing communication side of this if someone
wants to work on packaging, but especially if we have a repo it means a
responsibility and commitment to regularly update and maintain that
repo. Do we have people who can commit medium to long term to do this?
It won't be a one time task. :)

Of course there is also the option of snap packages that can be worth
investigating.

I hope this is helpful and not discouraging. :)

Best

Eylul


On 04/01/2018 02:48 PM, Thomas Pfundt wrote:
> On March 31, 2018 3:07 PM, Ralf Mardorf  wrote: 
>> Hi
>>
>> it's probably missing for hysterical raisins. [...] 
>> I would recommend to test it and to do research how much wanted it 
>> is by Linux, especially Ubuntu users first. 
>>
>> The more packages you add, the harder it becomes to maintain/test all 
>> packages. Since Ubuntu Studio suffers from missing manpower [1], 
>> consider, if making Ubuntu Studio more bloated is a step into the right 
>> direction. 
>  
> Hi all, 
>  
> I would suggest that WineASIO is a great way for a lot of people using 
> Wine-compatible Windows DAWs and standalone VSTis to make them run on their 
> Linux installation without much hassle in a semi-professional environment. 
> I've used it myself for a long time after I switched, but from my 
> understanding, there are only two ways to get a working WineASIO 
> configuration on Ubuntu Studio: 
>  
> 1.) Add the Kxstudio repositories and install their "wine-rt" and "wineasio" 
> builds. (I believe that those only work in conjunction.) Problem: The 
> Kxstudio wine-rt build is completely outdated at this point (it was on 
> version 1.9.x the last time I installed it, the official release is at 3.x 
> now) and FalkXT, the maintainer of Kxstudio mentioned in some forum post that 
> the real-time patch became obsolete anyway with the Wine staging branch at 
> some point. 
>  
> 2.) Install wine from the official packages and build WineASIO from the 
> official Sourceforge. I've never tried this myself, but I've read that there 
> can be some issues involved with Ubuntu. I haven't bothered to find out 
> what's the catch, since I switched to Reaper for Linux for my DAW, which is 
> JACK-compatible and I can work with LinVst to run most of my plugins, but for 
> someone who is dependent on a certain VST, this could be a problem, if they 
> are unable to get WineASIO working or just switched and have no idea how to 
> do so at all. 
>  
> IMHO, a way 3 would be desirable: To install a recent version of the regular 
> Wine build either from the distro's repository or the official packages and 
> separately "sudo apt install wineasio" and register it to that Wine 
> installation. I think that's something that most newcomers would be 
> comfortable doing and the best solution to stay updated. 
>  
> If I understand it correctly, Ubuntu Studio is completely dependent on the 
> regular Xubuntu repository at this point? So, WineASIO would have to be added 
> as a package to Xubuntu to be available to Ubuntu Studio users for 
> installation? 
>  
> I would be willing to figure out what problems there are in building and 
> installing WineASIO from the official source and how to use it with the most 
> recent stable Wine version, however I'm not sure what else is involed in 
> adding it to the repository (or at least offer some kind of PPA) and could 
> use some guidance to make the right steps. 
>  
>  
> Kind regards, 
> Thomas
>




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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] US still alive !

[Thomas Pfundt]

Hi Set and all others, 
 
on the general topic: Back in February when Ross Gammon asked for help with the 
16.04.4 ISO-testing, he also mentioned the possible formation of a new project 
council. Two other members of the mailing list and I have already offered our 
assistance in our own respective areas of proficiency. (I don't know if I 
should tentatively mention their contacts, but they're probably reading reading 
this list and can join in at their own sentiment.) 
 
I've basically been waiting for a word on some kind of get-together to discuss 
roles or division for what's on the road map, but I might have misunderstood 
something. 
 
I'll look into signing the code of conduct myself right now and try to get a 
better overview of the current state of everything. 
 
Anyway, I'll be available throughout this year and help with what I can, so 
"count me in". 
 
 
Kind regards, 
Thomas

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] wineasio interesting app

[Thomas Pfundt]

On March 31, 2018 3:07 PM, Ralf Mardorf  wrote: 
> Hi
>
> it's probably missing for hysterical raisins. [...] 
> I would recommend to test it and to do research how much wanted it 
> is by Linux, especially Ubuntu users first. 
> 
> The more packages you add, the harder it becomes to maintain/test all 
> packages. Since Ubuntu Studio suffers from missing manpower [1], 
> consider, if making Ubuntu Studio more bloated is a step into the right 
> direction. 
 
Hi all, 
 
I would suggest that WineASIO is a great way for a lot of people using 
Wine-compatible Windows DAWs and standalone VSTis to make them run on their 
Linux installation without much hassle in a semi-professional environment. I've 
used it myself for a long time after I switched, but from my understanding, 
there are only two ways to get a working WineASIO configuration on Ubuntu 
Studio: 
 
1.) Add the Kxstudio repositories and install their "wine-rt" and "wineasio" 
builds. (I believe that those only work in conjunction.) Problem: The Kxstudio 
wine-rt build is completely outdated at this point (it was on version 1.9.x the 
last time I installed it, the official release is at 3.x now) and FalkXT, the 
maintainer of Kxstudio mentioned in some forum post that the real-time patch 
became obsolete anyway with the Wine staging branch at some point. 
 
2.) Install wine from the official packages and build WineASIO from the 
official Sourceforge. I've never tried this myself, but I've read that there 
can be some issues involved with Ubuntu. I haven't bothered to find out what's 
the catch, since I switched to Reaper for Linux for my DAW, which is 
JACK-compatible and I can work with LinVst to run most of my plugins, but for 
someone who is dependent on a certain VST, this could be a problem, if they are 
unable to get WineASIO working or just switched and have no idea how to do so 
at all. 
 
IMHO, a way 3 would be desirable: To install a recent version of the regular 
Wine build either from the distro's repository or the official packages and 
separately "sudo apt install wineasio" and register it to that Wine 
installation. I think that's something that most newcomers would be comfortable 
doing and the best solution to stay updated. 
 
If I understand it correctly, Ubuntu Studio is completely dependent on the 
regular Xubuntu repository at this point? So, WineASIO would have to be added 
as a package to Xubuntu to be available to Ubuntu Studio users for 
installation? 
 
I would be willing to figure out what problems there are in building and 
installing WineASIO from the official source and how to use it with the most 
recent stable Wine version, however I'm not sure what else is involed in adding 
it to the repository (or at least offer some kind of PPA) and could use some 
guidance to make the right steps. 
 
 
Kind regards, 
Thomas

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