Re: [Launchpad-dev] Internationalization of Launchpad Answers

2010-10-20 Thread Curtis Hovey 
On Tue, 2010-10-19 at 20:39 +0200, David Planella wrote:
 Hi all,
 
 For this UDS, I've drafted a blueprint for a session to discuss the
 internationalization of the Launchpad Answers UI [1].

I Subscribed myself. I am attending UDS-N and I am one of the primary
engineers who works on it.

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Re: A proposal for the new roadmap 11.04

2010-10-20 Thread arjuna rao chavala 
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 4:15 AM, Valter Mura valterm...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi All,

 with regard to the latest announcement made by David in the list, I would
 like
 to submit to you my humble ideas about a new structure for Ubuntu
 translations
 in Launchpad.

 The idea is very simple: splitting the Ubuntu translation structure from
 one
 single branch into, at least, 4 branches with eventual derivative sub-
 branches. The reason is to have a more rational structure in which
 translators
 can easily individuate and manage packages to translate.

   --snip--
+1
Cheers
Arjun
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Re: A proposal for the new roadmap 11.04

2010-10-20 Thread Sveinn í Felli 
Þann þri 19.okt 2010 22:45, skrifaði Valter Mura:
 Hi All,

 with regard to the latest announcement made by David in the list, I would like
 to submit to you my humble ideas about a new structure for Ubuntu translations
 in Launchpad.

 The idea is very simple: splitting the Ubuntu translation structure from one
 single branch into, at least, 4 branches with eventual derivative sub-
 branches. The reason is to have a more rational structure in which translators
 can easily individuate and manage packages to translate.

 I think also that a new structure will facilitate the work of the translators
 and speed up the translation process.

Great work - I second these. We're talking about the 
organisation of the translation interface, isn't it ?

 Here is a possible subdivision:

 #1 - Ubuntu-files: this branch would include language files related only to
 Ubuntu, say shared files;

 #2 - Ubuntu-Gnome files: this branch would include only upstream language 
 files
 coming from the Gnome project plus upstream files containing possible changed
 strings;

 #3 - Kubuntu-KDE files: this branch would include only upstream language files
 coming from the KDE project plus upstream files containing possible changed
 strings;

 #4 - Xubuntu-XFCE files: this branch would include only upstream language 
 files
 coming from the XFCE project plus upstream files containing possible changed
 strings.

This could be a simple drop-down field above the file list; 
with options like 
all/Ubuntu_shared/Ubuntu_GNOME/Kubuntu_KDE/Xubuntu_XFCE (and 
maybe an Undefined field for modules early in the 
translation cycle). Possibly those definitions exist already 
in the database ?

 #5- For 2, 3, 4 files there should be also indication of original (upstream)
 URL, and possibility to have e-mail notification of changes in the files (this
 applies also to #1).

This could be in the header of the initial translation page, 
e.g. 
https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+pots/ubiquity-slideshow-kubuntu/XX/+translate

 #6- For upstream files, there could be also a note indicating the upstream
 situation of the file, for example, if the file is contained in a stable or
 unstable/trunk branch.

And maybe having the date of last synchronization with 
upstream would be of use.

 #7- Release cycles should be coordinated with the release ones of the upstream
 work-flows. To clarify this point: the release of a language update must be
 done only after the release of the upstream. This seems to be logical, but
 often it isn't, above all if packs are taken from both branches indicated in
 #6. Language packs are often incomplete, if the upstream way is not followed.
 This involves also the work in Launchpad, which could vanish after an upstream
 update. In this way, translators who work on an upstream
 (untranslated/partially untranslated) package could notify directly the
 translator in charge, thanks to #5: Hey, I translated the file you are 
 working
 on, I'll send it to you so that you could give it a look and use, if you
 wish.

In a previous thread, there was some discussion about having 
a lang-pack-bugfix upgrade relatively soon after a release 
(eliminating the most apparent errors) and maybe another 
intermediate one (before next 6 monthly release).
If this can also coincide with upstream releases, good.

And may I add:

#8- If translators (reviewers/coordinators) could easily 
download all the POs of their language in one go, that would 
be nice.

I suppose batch committing would be a bit too much to ask for.

 These are only some humble suggestions, I hope to contribute to improve the
 system with these few ideas.

IMHO they're very useful.

 By the way, I like very much the idea of an Ubuntu Translation Portal! :-)

 Ciao!
Bless!

Sveinn í Felli


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Re: A proposal for the new roadmap 11.04

2010-10-20 Thread Tom Davies 
Hi :)

I would really like us to add Lubuntu to this list as it is likely to be made 
an 
official version soon.  Xubuntu is getting too heavy to fulfill its market 
position as the light-weight Ubuntu because Xfce is quite heavy.  LxDE is light 
enough to be used on very much lighter-weight machines such as people often 
have 
in attics or cupboards.

If we finalise a set-up without considering Lubuntu then when it gets added we 
will have a bit of a messy interface.

I thought we were aiming to centralise Ubuntu and just offer the other DEs as 
forks?
Good luck and regards from
Tom :)



- Original Message 
From: Sveinn í Felli svei...@nett.is
To: ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com
Sent: Wed, 20 October, 2010 9:04:22
Subject: Re: A proposal for the new roadmap 11.04

Þann þri 19.okt 2010 22:45, skrifaði Valter Mura:
 Hi All,

 with regard to the latest announcement made by David in the list, I would like
 to submit to you my humble ideas about a new structure for Ubuntu translations
 in Launchpad.

 The idea is very simple: splitting the Ubuntu translation structure from one
 single branch into, at least, 4 branches with eventual derivative sub-
 branches. The reason is to have a more rational structure in which translators
 can easily individuate and manage packages to translate.

 I think also that a new structure will facilitate the work of the translators
 and speed up the translation process.

Great work - I second these. We're talking about the 
organisation of the translation interface, isn't it ?

 Here is a possible subdivision:

 #1 - Ubuntu-files: this branch would include language files related only to
 Ubuntu, say shared files;

 #2 - Ubuntu-Gnome files: this branch would include only upstream language 
files
 coming from the Gnome project plus upstream files containing possible changed
 strings;

 #3 - Kubuntu-KDE files: this branch would include only upstream language files
 coming from the KDE project plus upstream files containing possible changed
 strings;

 #4 - Xubuntu-XFCE files: this branch would include only upstream language 
files
 coming from the XFCE project plus upstream files containing possible changed
 strings.

This could be a simple drop-down field above the file list; 
with options like 
all/Ubuntu_shared/Ubuntu_GNOME/Kubuntu_KDE/Xubuntu_XFCE (and 
maybe an Undefined field for modules early in the 
translation cycle). Possibly those definitions exist already 
in the database ?

 #5- For 2, 3, 4 files there should be also indication of original (upstream)
 URL, and possibility to have e-mail notification of changes in the files (this
 applies also to #1).

This could be in the header of the initial translation page, 
e.g. 
https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+pots/ubiquity-slideshow-kubuntu/XX/+translate


 #6- For upstream files, there could be also a note indicating the upstream
 situation of the file, for example, if the file is contained in a stable or
 unstable/trunk branch.

And maybe having the date of last synchronization with 
upstream would be of use.

 #7- Release cycles should be coordinated with the release ones of the upstream
 work-flows. To clarify this point: the release of a language update must be
 done only after the release of the upstream. This seems to be logical, but
 often it isn't, above all if packs are taken from both branches indicated in
 #6. Language packs are often incomplete, if the upstream way is not followed.
 This involves also the work in Launchpad, which could vanish after an upstream
 update. In this way, translators who work on an upstream
 (untranslated/partially untranslated) package could notify directly the
 translator in charge, thanks to #5: Hey, I translated the file you are 
working
 on, I'll send it to you so that you could give it a look and use, if you
 wish.

In a previous thread, there was some discussion about having 
a lang-pack-bugfix upgrade relatively soon after a release 
(eliminating the most apparent errors) and maybe another 
intermediate one (before next 6 monthly release).
If this can also coincide with upstream releases, good.

And may I add:

#8- If translators (reviewers/coordinators) could easily 
download all the POs of their language in one go, that would 
be nice.

I suppose batch committing would be a bit too much to ask for.

 These are only some humble suggestions, I hope to contribute to improve the
 system with these few ideas.

IMHO they're very useful.

 By the way, I like very much the idea of an Ubuntu Translation Portal! :-)

 Ciao!
Bless!

Sveinn í Felli


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Re: Translatable Code of Conduct (CoC) and Leadership Code of Conduct (LCoC)

2010-10-20 Thread Tom Davies 
CoC is possibly too similar to a rude word in English.  Is it possible to 
change 
it?
Regards from
Tom :)




- Original Message 
From: David Planella david.plane...@ubuntu.com
To: Ubuntu Translators ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com
Cc: Ubuntu local community team (LoCo) contacts loco-conta...@lists.ubuntu.com
Sent: Tue, 19 October, 2010 19:39:15
Subject: Translatable Code of Conduct (CoC) and Leadership Code of Conduct 
(LCoC)

Hi all,

I just wanted to let you know about the blueprint I've just drafted for
a UDS session to discuss an effort to make the Ubuntu Code of Conduct
(CoC) and Leadership Code of Conduct translatable [1].

From the summary:

We want to provide the Code of Conduct (CoC) and the Leadership Code of
Conduct (LCoC) in anyone's own language, and we want to enable the
community to translate it.

We'd like to discuss the steps needed to make this possible and to find
people intersted in contributing to this goal [...]

I want to be clear on this: this is an objective I'm very excited about,
but due to other projects already in our Roadmap [2], I will probably
not have the time to work on it this cycle. Nevertheless, I think we
should have the discussion at UDS. I'll be glad to help anyone wanting
to participate, and it would be even more awesome if someone would be
willing to lead this effort.

For all of you interested, you can subscribe to the blueprint and attend
the session if you can.

Thanks!

Regards,
David. 

[1]
https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntutheproject-community-n-translations-translatable-coc/

[2] http://is.gd/g8uJn

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www.identi.ca/dplanella / www.twitter.com/dplanella



  

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Re: Translatable Code of Conduct (CoC) and Leadership Code of Conduct (LCoC)

2010-10-20 Thread Tom Davies 
Hi :)

Ubuntu governance bodies is a generic term to cover any organisation that is 
in control of Ubuntu so it includes organisations such as the Community Council 
and possibly official LoCo Teams too (although the LoCo Teams may have 
geographically restricted influence directly (i don't know but it is 
possible)).  It is just vague enough to cover any future changes or 
re-organisations or restructuring of the way Ubuntu is run.

This is not an official answer but just the way i would interpret the phrase.

Good luck and regards from
Tom :)



- Original Message 
From: Fumihito YOSHIDA h...@ubuntu.com
To: David Planella david.plane...@ubuntu.com
Cc: Ubuntu Translators ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com; Ubuntu local 
community team (LoCo) contacts loco-conta...@lists.ubuntu.com
Sent: Wed, 20 October, 2010 2:50:35
Subject: Re: Translatable Code of Conduct (CoC) and Leadership Code of Conduct 
(LCoC)

Hi David and all,

For brainstorming, I propose yet another tasks. So,

  -  Do we need Onomasticon ?
  -  Do we need English = English translation ?

 I just wanted to let you know about the blueprint I've just drafted for
 a UDS session to discuss an effort to make the Ubuntu Code of Conduct
 (CoC) and Leadership Code of Conduct translatable [1].

 From the summary:

 We want to provide the Code of Conduct (CoC) and the Leadership Code of
 Conduct (LCoC) in anyone's own language, and we want to enable the
 community to translate it.

We (Japanese LoCo) had translate CoC already( http://bit.ly/9WJ80c ).
In translation works, we face some challenges about CoC/LCoC terms.

Do we need Onomasticon ? :

- CoC has some {philosophical implications, Ubuntu governance term}.
   For example, Ubuntu governance bodies. We need long discussion about
   this term, because we have to analyze , it include nuance? Or, is it
   proper name?(like Community Council?) 
   In this case, we check Jono's blog[1] and other documents, but it is
   heavy to dicisions. But if we had proper name lists, we can work easily.

Do we need English = English translation ?  :

- For translation works, many paraphrase creates good translations.
   (see also: Paraphrasing Social from the start[2])

Any ideas?

[1] http://www.jonobacon.org/2009/08/09/
[2] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-translators/2010-April/003502.html

Regards,

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Re: Translatable Code of Conduct (CoC) and Leadership Code of Conduct (LCoC)

2010-10-20 Thread David Planella 
El dc 20 de 10 de 2010 a les 11:11 +0100, en/na Tom Davies va escriure:
 CoC is possibly too similar to a rude word in English.  Is it possible to 
 change 
 it?
 Regards from
 Tom :)
 

Hi Tom,

For any concerns about the usage of the acronym, I'd suggest you contact
the Community Council:

   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil

That said, I've never heard someone using the acronym in speech. People
tend to refer to it as the code of conduct, which gives no room for
ambiguities.

Regards,
David.

 
 
 - Original Message 
 From: David Planella david.plane...@ubuntu.com
 To: Ubuntu Translators ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com
 Cc: Ubuntu local community team (LoCo) contacts 
 loco-conta...@lists.ubuntu.com
 Sent: Tue, 19 October, 2010 19:39:15
 Subject: Translatable Code of Conduct (CoC) and Leadership Code of Conduct 
 (LCoC)
 
 Hi all,
 
 I just wanted to let you know about the blueprint I've just drafted for
 a UDS session to discuss an effort to make the Ubuntu Code of Conduct
 (CoC) and Leadership Code of Conduct translatable [1].
 
 From the summary:
 
 We want to provide the Code of Conduct (CoC) and the Leadership Code of
 Conduct (LCoC) in anyone's own language, and we want to enable the
 community to translate it.
 
 We'd like to discuss the steps needed to make this possible and to find
 people intersted in contributing to this goal [...]
 
 I want to be clear on this: this is an objective I'm very excited about,
 but due to other projects already in our Roadmap [2], I will probably
 not have the time to work on it this cycle. Nevertheless, I think we
 should have the discussion at UDS. I'll be glad to help anyone wanting
 to participate, and it would be even more awesome if someone would be
 willing to lead this effort.
 
 For all of you interested, you can subscribe to the blueprint and attend
 the session if you can.
 
 Thanks!
 
 Regards,
 David. 
 
 [1]
 https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntutheproject-community-n-translations-translatable-coc/
 
 [2] http://is.gd/g8uJn
 


-- 
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Ubuntu Translations Coordinator
www.ubuntu.com / www.davidplanella.wordpress.com
www.identi.ca/dplanella / www.twitter.com/dplanella


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Re: Translatable Code of Conduct (CoC) and Leadership Code of Conduct (LCoC)

2010-10-20 Thread Tom Davies 
Good good.

As long as common sense continues to prevail we are ok
Regards from
Tom :)




- Original Message 
From: David Planella david.plane...@ubuntu.com
To: Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk
Cc: ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com
Sent: Wed, 20 October, 2010 16:52:52
Subject: Re: Translatable Code of Conduct (CoC) and Leadership Code of Conduct 
(LCoC)

El dc 20 de 10 de 2010 a les 11:11 +0100, en/na Tom Davies va escriure:
 CoC is possibly too similar to a rude word in English.  Is it possible to 
change 

 it?
 Regards from
 Tom :)
 

Hi Tom,

For any concerns about the usage of the acronym, I'd suggest you contact
the Community Council:

  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil

That said, I've never heard someone using the acronym in speech. People
tend to refer to it as the code of conduct, which gives no room for
ambiguities.

Regards,
David.

 
 
 - Original Message 
 From: David Planella david.plane...@ubuntu.com
 To: Ubuntu Translators ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com
 Cc: Ubuntu local community team (LoCo) contacts 
loco-conta...@lists.ubuntu.com
 Sent: Tue, 19 October, 2010 19:39:15
 Subject: Translatable Code of Conduct (CoC) and Leadership Code of Conduct 
 (LCoC)
 
 Hi all,
 
 I just wanted to let you know about the blueprint I've just drafted for
 a UDS session to discuss an effort to make the Ubuntu Code of Conduct
 (CoC) and Leadership Code of Conduct translatable [1].
 
 From the summary:
 
 We want to provide the Code of Conduct (CoC) and the Leadership Code of
 Conduct (LCoC) in anyone's own language, and we want to enable the
 community to translate it.
 
 We'd like to discuss the steps needed to make this possible and to find
 people intersted in contributing to this goal [...]
 
 I want to be clear on this: this is an objective I'm very excited about,
 but due to other projects already in our Roadmap [2], I will probably
 not have the time to work on it this cycle. Nevertheless, I think we
 should have the discussion at UDS. I'll be glad to help anyone wanting
 to participate, and it would be even more awesome if someone would be
 willing to lead this effort.
 
 For all of you interested, you can subscribe to the blueprint and attend
 the session if you can.
 
 Thanks!
 
 Regards,
 David. 
 
 [1]
https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntutheproject-community-n-translations-translatable-coc/
/
 
 [2] http://is.gd/g8uJn
 


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www.identi.ca/dplanella / www.twitter.com/dplanella



  

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Re: Translatable Code of Conduct (CoC) and Leadership Code of Conduct (LCoC)

2010-10-20 Thread David Planella 
El dc 20 de 10 de 2010 a les 10:50 +0900, en/na Fumihito YOSHIDA va
escriure:
 Hi David and all,
 
 For brainstorming, I propose yet another tasks. So,
 
   -  Do we need Onomasticon ?
   -  Do we need English = English translation ?
 
  I just wanted to let you know about the blueprint I've just drafted for
  a UDS session to discuss an effort to make the Ubuntu Code of Conduct
  (CoC) and Leadership Code of Conduct translatable [1].
 
  From the summary:
 
  We want to provide the Code of Conduct (CoC) and the Leadership Code of
  Conduct (LCoC) in anyone's own language, and we want to enable the
  community to translate it.
 
 We (Japanese LoCo) had translate CoC already( http://bit.ly/9WJ80c ).
 In translation works, we face some challenges about CoC/LCoC terms.
 
 Do we need Onomasticon ? :
 
  - CoC has some {philosophical implications, Ubuntu governance term}.
For example, Ubuntu governance bodies. We need long discussion about
this term, because we have to analyze , it include nuance? Or, is it
proper name?(like Community Council?) 
In this case, we check Jono's blog[1] and other documents, but it is
heavy to dicisions. But if we had proper name lists, we can work easily.
 

Hi Fumihito,

Thanks a lot for your input.

If I understand you correctly, I believe you are referring to the
creation of a global glossary for translation terms.

I personally think that this is something that every team should take
care of, and it is something that we recommend to be in their
translation guidelines [1], as only the people familiar with the given
language know best which terms and how they need to be translated.

However, I do see the value in creating a global glossary that teams
could use as a template and simply translate.

There were efforts in that direction some time ago:

https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-translators/2009-December/003170.html

If this is an area you believe to be important, and would like to see it
improved, I'd very much encourage you to revive that effort, or lead a
new project to create a global translation glossary (or memory) for all
teams. I'll certainly be glad to help, as I'm sure other people on the
list will be.

 Do we need English = English translation ?  :
 
  - For translation works, many paraphrase creates good translations.
(see also: Paraphrasing Social from the start[2])
 
 Any ideas?
 

Again, that is something that needs to be discussed within each team.
We, in Catalan, for example tend to adhere to the practice of trying to
translate everything and not rely on English terms, where it applies
(e.g. we translate software to programari, but we do not translate
e.g. Rhythmbox)

Regards,
David.

[1]
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/KnowledgeBase/TranslationGuidelines

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Re: A proposal for the new roadmap 11.04

2010-10-20 Thread Jonathan Aquilina 
i like these ideas as well. is there a way version control can be done on
the packages that way any string changes can be merged into one centralized
package?

On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 6:11 PM, Valter Mura valterm...@gmail.com wrote:

 In data mercoledì 20 ottobre 2010 10:04:22, Sveinn í Felli ha scritto:

   with regard to the latest announcement made by David in the list, I
 would
   like to submit to you my humble ideas about a new structure for Ubuntu
   translations in Launchpad.
  
   The idea is very simple: splitting the Ubuntu translation structure
 from
   one single branch into, at least, 4 branches with eventual derivative
   sub- branches. The reason is to have a more rational structure in which
   translators can easily individuate and manage packages to translate.
  
   I think also that a new structure will facilitate the work of the
   translators and speed up the translation process.
 
  Great work - I second these. We're talking about the
  organisation of the translation interface, isn't it ?

 Yes, of course, and documentation, too.

 
   Here is a possible subdivision:
  
   #1 - Ubuntu-files: this branch would include language files related
 only
   to Ubuntu, say shared files;
  
   #2 - Ubuntu-Gnome files: this branch would include only upstream
 language
   files coming from the Gnome project plus upstream files containing
   possible changed strings;
  
   #3 - Kubuntu-KDE files: this branch would include only upstream
 language
   files coming from the KDE project plus upstream files containing
   possible changed strings;
  
   #4 - Xubuntu-XFCE files: this branch would include only upstream
 language
   files coming from the XFCE project plus upstream files containing
   possible changed strings.
 
  This could be a simple drop-down field above the file list;
  with options like
  all/Ubuntu_shared/Ubuntu_GNOME/Kubuntu_KDE/Xubuntu_XFCE (and
  maybe an Undefined field for modules early in the
  translation cycle).

 In that way, you need to add a tag to indicate which branch
 the package belongs to.

 On the contrary, the other structure would imply the creation of
 sub-branches
 for the main Ubuntu Translation branch.

 Replying to Tom's considerations, I think that also Kubuntu should be added
 to
 the list, if the project becomes stable and coordinated with the others.

  Possibly those definitions exist already
  in the database ?

 I don't know.

 
   #5- For 2, 3, 4 files there should be also indication of original
   (upstream) URL, and possibility to have e-mail notification of changes
   in the files (this applies also to #1).
 
  This could be in the header of the initial translation page,
  e.g.
 
 https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+source/ubiquity-slidesh
  ow-ubuntu/+pots/ubiquity-slideshow-kubuntu/XX/+translate

 No, I was thinking to simply put an URL inside the Launchpad page of the
 translation, something like: the upstream package can be found here:
 address_of_the_package
 Note: I would put the URL for the localized package and also the URL of the
 upstream translation team.

 For what I'm concerned - an example for my loved program KPackageKit :-)
 :

 - upstream URL repository: http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/l10n-
 kde4/it/messages/playground-sysadmin/kpackagekit.po
 - Italian KDE Translation Team: http://kde.gulp.linux.it/

 In this case, its upstream position can vary, because it is placed in
 playground-sysadmin, so it's a temporary position.

 There could be also a check box like Watch this package, in case the
 translator would want to keep an eye to version updates.

 
   #6- For upstream files, there could be also a note indicating the
   upstream situation of the file, for example, if the file is contained
   in a stable or unstable/trunk branch.
 
  And maybe having the date of last synchronization with
  upstream would be of use.

 Yes, the importing from CVS, SVN and GIT is already setup and is working
 well,
 I think the good Launchpad developers will have no problems to integrate
 it.
 :-)

 
   #7- Release cycles should be coordinated with the release ones of the
   upstream work-flows. To clarify this point: the release of a language
   update must be done only after the release of the upstream. This seems
   to be logical, but often it isn't, above all if packs are taken from
   both branches indicated in #6. Language packs are often incomplete, if
   the upstream way is not followed. This involves also the work in
   Launchpad, which could vanish after an upstream update. In this way,
   translators who work on an upstream
   (untranslated/partially untranslated) package could notify directly
 the
   translator in charge, thanks to #5: Hey, I translated the file you are
   working on, I'll send it to you so that you could give it a look and
   use, if you wish.
 
  In a previous thread, there was some discussion about having
  a lang-pack-bugfix upgrade relatively soon after a release
  (eliminating the most apparent errors)