Re: Japanese team (reviewer) is not working

[BALLOON a.k.a. Fu-sen.]

Hi all,

About what I accepted,
I can not make a proper judgment about this.
So I will leave that list again.
and I will leave this issue to the world translators and users.
Even if there is a request, I will not return. This place is not a court.

Please forgive my selfish behavior...

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Re: Japanese team (reviewer) is not working

[BALLOON a.k.a. Fu-sen.]

Hi, Yoshida-san


Yup……

This is translator ML. There is obviously information not related to it.
And I felt that idea was too unilateral.
I think you are a representative member of the Japanese Team.
That word has no future.


What are you seeking from me there? What would you like me to do?


Respectful, and Collaborative...
These are included in the Ubuntu Code of Conduct:

https://www.ubuntu.com/about/about-ubuntu/conduct


I have not received anything so far about responses from overseas
users regarding this time.
Perhaps my figure from other users, everyone would not be seeing that.


I appreciate the credit of Ubuntu Japanese Team,
I started to link Ubuntu Japanese Team to my site.
I was considering adding Ubunru Japanese Remix.

https://ubuntujp.jimdo.com/

I have stopped that hand now...


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Re: Japanese team (reviewer) is not working

[Fumihito YOSHIDA]

Fu-sen san,

  Firstly, Please read carefully this mail and past mails in this
thread, these have many many insights for Fu-sen san's future
contibution.

  Sorry for later, because I want to think this issue that are reach
to your heart and your contribution styles vulnerabilities.

  I apologize for our lack of detailed guidance in past days, and I
remorse that.

  And, this is not judgement, only suggestion, I can not add any
constraint for your future, and contribution spirit. But some of your
styles have serious risk, IMHO, you have to change.

[TOC]
- Can we use web-based translations on LP?
- Regarding Hanlon's razor and your behavior
- Can we avoid reverting the Fu-sen san's contribution?
- Conclusion

Can we use web-based translations on LP?
==

  NOTE: This is my understood, not official, and no covenant for
license matching. License problem are very sensitive and very
difficult. These pattern are not MECE, but workable for this time.

- Case: Translate with dictionary and your brain.
- IMHO: OK.

- Case: web-based Translation Service with explicitly declaration for
compatible with FLOSS license.
- IMHO: Probably(-Maybe) OK, but I dont have assurance for
"translation" work. If original documents author are you, the risk are
low.

- Case: multiple web-based Translation Service with explicitly
declaration for combatiple with FLOSS license.
- IMHO: Probably(-Maybe) OK, but I dont have assurance for
"translation" work. If original documents author are you, the risk are
low.

- Case: web-based Translation Service with no declaration for
compatible with FLOSS license.
- IMHO: Maybe OK when if you translate with their output as a one of
references, probably safe, but when you need perfection, don't use
them.

- Case: web-based Translation Service with explicit declaration for
*incompatible* with FLOSS license.
- IMHO: Completely NG.

- Case: No EULA (no contract):
- IMHO: Completely NG, see below as a reference. This is deadly venom
for our freedom.
  http://d.hatena.ne.jp/nishiohirokazu/20100819/1282200581

Regarding Hanlon's razor and your reputations
===

  We know one golden rule(not only FLOSS context), "Hanlon's razor"
and variants, like this.:

  " Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. "

  " Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained
by stupidity, but don't rule out malice. "

  Sorry for shocking words, but we are same, we (You, Ikuya, me and
any other peoples) are stupid, therefor, we have to make an efforts to
more fabulous future under the contract and discipline.

  In discussion context, when you met adversing developments, you
change your behavior to keep saying one is sorry (or just leave with
words like: "Okay, I leave this community, this is only way for
benecicial to everyone"). but you are returning, or, moving another
places without turning a hair.

  Honestly, In first action, Fu-sen san told that "I use Google
Translator, it looks good for me".

  At that time, I hope just say "Can we revert part of your
contributions? because it seems risky."  Small reverting.

  But, you dont respond(twicely) to me. I feel something bad. When
Ikuya AWASHIRO were onboarding, you leaved this lists, without
accoountabilities.

  Again, apologies my suspicious.

  After that, you were starting your know-how broadcastly on SNS, that
can summarized to : "I use use multiple translation services, that
need fitting to format, not simple copy and paste."

  And, probably, You updated your instruction site on elementaryOS's.

  
https://elementaryjapan.jimdo.com/%E6%97%A5%E6%9C%AC%E8%AA%9E%E7%BF%BB%E8%A8%B3/
> (運営者は完全な未翻訳の場合、複数の Web 翻訳を元に規則に基づいて体制を整えて反映しています。
>  これは翻訳文を少しでも確実にすると共に、単独の Web 翻訳から引用したと分からないようにします。
> 翻訳した文を逆に日本語に戻して確認するのも効果的です。)

  That said: "Web administorator use multiple web translation
services, and fitting to format. This mainly providing more accuracy,
and, that can be cover the translation coming from one-single web
translation services as a side effect. "

  Firstly, I cant understand that word: "分からないように"(cover, disguise or
camouflage?)? I had suspect that it meaning "If you chery-pick from
multiple web services, its sound good".

  And I found your words in a few days, "I cant translate without
Google Translater", "I dont use Web-based Translater", "I use multiple
web services".
  I feel heavy pain with say, but must say,  you dont understand
what's wrong in past few days.

  Yet another thing occured, one of 2ch.net users notice to me, Fu-sen
san have many notorious reputations. User of 2ch.net indicate that.
(Thank you for anonymous person of sincerity.)
http://echo.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/hosting/1414908422/

  2ch.net are notorious(bad nuance) anonymous board services. Yes,
they are just anonymous, and, sometime they work with dysphemism and
antagonism. Sometimes they become demagogue, but they have some kind
of guilelessness. T

Re: Japanese team (reviewer) is not working

[Fumihito YOSHIDA]

> This is not Ubuntu, but I know that it is translating overseas using
> Google Translate.
> Perhaps there are other overseas users who do not know.
> Please tell the translators around the world.

Shortly, this painful case are (probably) your case only. I'll explain
why in few days...

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Re: Japanese team (reviewer) is not working

[BALLOON a.k.a. Fu-sen.]

Hi Yoshida-san,

> Question from 
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-translators/2017-February/007326.html
>> So, in this phase, I have a sense of crisis from this page and your
>> translation works. Sorry for this explicit question,  but I must say
>> this, you don't have enough knowledge about FLOSS cultures and
>> licensing?  And, please provide your truth in past works(see past
>> replies).
>
> And, please stop your work "with Translation Service" model with your
> favorites services (+ "by Translation Service", "by Translation
> Service and review by contributor" models also affected). Their
> services are not have contract requirements, so they have fatal risk.
> No EULA/no contract services are venom for our freedom. Sorry for less
> details, I'll provide more background in few days.
>
> Regards,

I do not have much knowledge. Thank you for telling me.

This is not Ubuntu, but I know that it is translating overseas using
Google Translate.
Perhaps there are other overseas users who do not know.
Please tell the translators around the world.

I apologize in advance if anything will increase your extra work. I'm sorry.
I will reflect on and stop handling the translation work.
I will contribute in the future with other work corresponding to that.

I'm really sorry. And thank you.


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Re: Japanese team (reviewer) is not working

[Fumihito YOSHIDA]

Hi,

Question from 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-translators/2017-February/007326.html
> So, in this phase, I have a sense of crisis from this page and your
> translation works. Sorry for this explicit question,  but I must say
> this, you don't have enough knowledge about FLOSS cultures and
> licensing?  And, please provide your truth in past works(see past
> replies).

And, please stop your work "with Translation Service" model with your
favorites services (+ "by Translation Service", "by Translation
Service and review by contributor" models also affected). Their
services are not have contract requirements, so they have fatal risk.
No EULA/no contract services are venom for our freedom. Sorry for less
details, I'll provide more background in few days.

Regards,

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Re: Japanese team (reviewer) is not working

[BALLOON a.k.a. Fu-sen.]

Hi,


> And please re-subscribe this mailing list and answer another questions.

Thank you. Ikuya-san. I came back here.


list moderator:
i'm sorry for your extra manual work.


If there is a question I had overlooked,
Please tell me by posting again. sorry...


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Re: Japanese team (reviewer) is not working

[AWASHIRO Ikuya]

Hi Fu-sen san,

Thank you for your explanation.
I know it is gettext's behavior.
I am sorry for my suspicion.
And please re-subscribe this mailing list and answer another questions.

Regards,

On Mon, 27 Feb 2017 20:29:40 +0900
"BALLOON a.k.a. Fu-sen."  wrote:

> Hi, Ikuya-san
> 
> I know your great contribution.
> Thanks to you, now I can use various software in Japanese.
> Thank you very much! :)
> 
> 
> I will respond to your concerns:
> 
> > > 2) And,what's happen at this tweet?
> > > https://twitter.com/balloon_vendor/status/817929412356214784
> > > > ああ、明らかに他もおかしいですね。version→で開くになってしまってますので。何か自動翻訳でおかしく入っている可能性がありそうです。確認して修正します。Ubuntu
> > > >  Budgie が採用する予定なのでこの連絡はありがたいです。ありがとうございます。
> > I worried about this tweet, too.
> > I think 自動翻訳 means 機械翻訳 (machine translation). Is it correct?
> > 「何か自動翻訳でおかしく入っている可能性がありそうです。」means you input machine
> > translations into Launchpad without any modification. Is it correct?
> 
> 
> I am dealing with it using Terminix's issue:
> https://github.com/gnunn1/terminix/issues/678
> 
> "That's just how gettext works."
> 
> Perhaps you can understand that details.
> 
> If you need this confirmation and improvement,
> I would be happy if you could assist.
> That is a tremendous contribution to Ubuntu Budgie.
> 
> 
> You and I will make up here. Let's cooperate and work in the future!
> Sorry until now. And thanks to the wonderful people.
> 
> 
> BALLOON a.k.a. Fu-sen. (Keiichi SHIGA)
> balloonakafu...@gmail.com
> https://launchpad.net/~balloon
> 


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Re: Japanese team (reviewer) is not working

[AWASHIRO Ikuya]

Hi Fu-sen san,

Due to undelivered mails (maybe), I don't know in detail.

On Sat, 25 Feb 2017 19:54:24 +0900
Fumihito YOSHIDA  wrote:

> 2) And,what's happen at this tweet?
> https://twitter.com/balloon_vendor/status/817929412356214784
> > ああ、明らかに他もおかしいですね。version→で開くになってしまってますので。何か自動翻訳でおかしく入っている可能性がありそうです。確認して修正します。Ubuntu
> >  Budgie が採用する予定なのでこの連絡はありがたいです。ありがとうございます。
I worried about this tweet, too.
I think 自動翻訳 means 機械翻訳 (machine translation). Is it correct?
「何か自動翻訳でおかしく入っている可能性がありそうです。」means you input machine
translations into Launchpad without any modification. Is it correct?

Would you please answer above questions.

All your contribution are belong by proprietary.
I am sorry for a corny joke.

Regards,
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Re: Japanese team (reviewer) is not working

[Fumihito YOSHIDA]

Hi,

>> 1) Would you please provide list of translation services?
>
> I want to check it in reverse. Is this OK for this?:
> | 1. Translate with multiple web translations. The result is many
> different sentences.

I don't have solid answer, if you translate "with translation
services", maybe OK, "by translation services", probably No.

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Re: Japanese team (reviewer) is not working

[Fumihito YOSHIDA]

# I'm sorry, I mistaken From address. Sorry for bothering Fu-sen san, Joel san.

Hi,

Thank you for your response, Please provide more 2 information. I
really sorry for bothering you.

> 1. Translate with multiple web translations

1) Would you please provide list of translation services?

2) And,what's happen at this tweet?
https://twitter.com/balloon_vendor/status/817929412356214784
> ああ、明らかに他もおかしいですね。version→で開くになってしまってますので。何か自動翻訳でおかしく入っている可能性がありそうです。確認して修正します。Ubuntu
>  Budgie が採用する予定なのでこの連絡はありがたいです。ありがとうございます。

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Re: Japanese team (reviewer) is not working

[Fumihito YOSHIDA]

Hi Fu-sen san,

  I pray that you read this message and reply with veracity.

  Again^3, please answer my questions. This is very important for us.

https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-translators/2017-February/007326.html
> So, in this phase, I have a sense of crisis from this page and your
> translation works. Sorry for this explicit question,  but I must say
> this, you don't have enough knowledge about FLOSS cultures and
> licensing?  And, please provide your truth in past works(see past
> replies).

  Sorry for repeatedly notice, but I heared you are *now* continuing
translation work with Google Translator on Linux Mint. I have to
notice this message, because your work face a risk. If you cannot
reply now, so please stop your translation work after reply (or do not
use Machine Translations) on LP.

  I don't have concrete premise what we can use Google Translator and
some Machine Translation Service as a copy source(or base) for
translation work on LP. But this is too risky in their service EULA
and LP's  rule/licensing(3-clause BSD). At least, that have risk
(not-negligible).  MHO, if {EULA, the Copyright act(in many
countries), Google, Author of Original Text}  are allowed, our spirit
and pride prevent to use, because that is not translation, just
fraudulent and reviewing.
  https://help.launchpad.net/Translations

  I feel strong pain, but I must say this, if you didn't provide the
answer, we(Ikuya and Me) + Ubuntu Japanese Translator) must process
the depuration, that include last-resort. In worst case, your
contribution cause serious reverting storm in some projects.

Sincerely,

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Re: Japanese team (reviewer) is not working

[BALLOON a.k.a. Fu-sen.]

Hi,


> I’d like to start out by reminding you of the Ubuntu Code of Conduct, which
> can be found here: https://www.ubuntu.com/about/about-ubuntu/conduct

Yes, I knew it. I'm sorry

By the way, have you seen it in Google Translate?:
https://translate.google.co.jp/

I can understand the converted Japanese.
And I am talking while translating the sentences so far with Google Translate.
I wanted to solve this problem even to that extent.

I will leave this group and leave this to everyone. Thank you.


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Re: Japanese team (reviewer) is not working

[Joel Addison]

Hi,

I’d like to start out by reminding you of the Ubuntu Code of Conduct, which can 
be found here: https://www.ubuntu.com/about/about-ubuntu/conduct 


I see a number of people in this thread have been trying to assist. They are 
currently waiting on your response to their questions, before they can help 
more. Please help them to help you by answering these questions.

We all want to improve Ubuntu, and translations are an important part of this. 
Lets work together to get this done, rather than having arguments that get 
nowhere.

-- Joel

> On 24 Feb 2017, at 11:09 pm, BALLOON a.k.a. Fu-sen. 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hey, AWASHIRO Ikuya!
> 
> You are the Fcitx project who refused by just looking at my name:
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/fcitx-dev/U4X3GjO41xo
> 
> I do not want to see your character anymore!
> 
> 
> BALLOON a.k.a. Fu-sen. (Keiichi SHIGA)
> balloonakafu...@gmail.com
> https://launchpad.net/~balloon
> 
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Re: Japanese team (reviewer) is not working

[Fumihito YOSHIDA]

Hi, Fu-sen san,

> You are the Fcitx project who refused by just looking at my name:
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/fcitx-dev/U4X3GjO41xo

I have a question, It seems

  " Honesty speaking, your translations are not so good. "

  convert to

  " refused by just looking at my name ".

What did you mean?

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Re: Japanese team (reviewer) is not working

[BALLOON a.k.a. Fu-sen.]

Hey, AWASHIRO Ikuya!

You are the Fcitx project who refused by just looking at my name:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/fcitx-dev/U4X3GjO41xo

I do not want to see your character anymore!


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Re: Japanese team (reviewer) is not working

[AWASHIRO Ikuya]

Hi, this is Ikuya who is an Ubuntu Japanese Team and an indirect member
of Ubuntu Japanese Translators. 
And also now in active translator you looking for.

On Fri, 24 Feb 2017 18:21:49 +0900
"BALLOON a.k.a. Fu-sen."  wrote:

> "Japanese team (reviewer) is not working".
We (Ubuntu Japanese Team/Ubuntu Japanese Translators) are active, because
I am here! I am here!

> - Influence of Ubuntu flavors
> "ubiquity-slideshow" The actual translation situation will be easy to explore:
> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
> 
> A few days ago Ubuntu flavors released 16.04.2 LTS.
> Translation reflection information of that ubiquity-slideshow is as follows.
> I shot an installation movie using Daily Build before releasing 16.04.2.
> That movie is now on YouTube. I included that URL.:
> 
> Ubuntu Desktop Image: Complete Japanese
>   Note to Japanese users:
>This is "not" Ubuntu Japanese Remix, provided by Ubuntu Japanese Team
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2n1IXcgXacg (2:15)
> 
> Kubuntu: Some English
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONPk2CGnvdQ (3:00)
> 
> Xubuntu: Complete Japanese
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMir7we31E0 (1:56)
> 
> Lubuntu: Complete Japanese
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7Lhh4kTEQs (1:41)
> 
> Ubuntu GNOME: Some English
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VUY8XxA6lU (2:16)
> 
> Ubuntu MATE: "Complete English"
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wKu7fLv8mY (2:02)
As you say, ubiquilty-slideshow-ubuntu-gnome[1] and ubiquity-slideshow-
xubuntu are in good shape. Because they are translated and/or reviewed
by Me.
I use/love Ubuntu GNOME and Xubuntu. 
All you need is love, as Beatles (John Lennon) sang before. I love it. 

> "Japanese team (reviewer) is not working".
> 
> 
> You and teams need to take this fact and consider measures.
I'll say it again (with singing John's "God"), we are active.
I too think ubiquity-slideshow-* need more work as you said, and I try
until 17.04 release. Don't stop me now. I love Queen, too.

> When will Ubuntu flavors become available in full Japanese?
Never will come. Because Ubuntu flavors, including softwares, you, 
world, me, etc. keep on growing (oh, it is Derek and the Dominos!).

[1]: 
https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/yakkety/+source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+pots/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu-gnome/ja/+translate?
[2]: 
https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/yakkety/+source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+pots/ubiquity-slideshow-xubuntu/ja/+translate?

Cheers,
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Re: Japanese team (reviewer) is not working

[Fumihito YOSHIDA]

Hi,

> "Japanese team (reviewer) is not working".

  Okay, your concern is "Ubuntu Japanese Translators are defunct team,
and Japanese Translation covers very limited", isn't it?

  If so, I have to say "Please use valid way". Sorry for repeating,
but this is important. You hadn't contact with valid way, and we are
got your reach out  in this week. And your first contact time is Tue
Feb 21 in this development season.

  IMHO, you have some imbroglio. Please read our document and use
valid way, sorry for repeating.

  And... I feel very heavy painbut I have obligation to say
again, you must answer and free from suspicion before contribution.

  Again, I apologies we can't achieve your expectation and your
concern, but please built up the steps of contribution with us.

  I suggest your first step, please sign CoC. After that, check in
your user page at LP, if you complete this step, "Signed Ubuntu Code
of Conduct: Yes", and answering some questions in this thread. We (You
and Ubuntu Japanese Translators) have limited time for your
answering...

-

I try to answer to your concerns below.

- "Ubuntu Japanese Translators karma are low, you are defunct" : Yes,
sorry for our laziness, but Japanese Translators are moderator, not
work as committer. If non-Translator's contribution with valid caller,
our work become low (because we are in busy), our works are very
limited.

- "I can improve Japanese Translation":
  Yes, I agree on some premises. Use valid way, explain your
translation approach.

- "Japanese Translation coverage are too low.":
  Yes, sorry for our limited resources and limitation.

- "Japanese Translator's resource are very limited, my contribution
will fall on deaf ears...":
  No, these are not only our resources, read past mails in this list.

- "Less quality better than no quantities":
  IMHO, No. This is Translations, bad translation break the interface,
compromised contribution messed up our base.
  No, my understood of Open Source Policy/Spirit, Definitely No, we
cant use contribution with pollution.

- "Good coverage with less quality is better than enough quality with
limited coverage":
  In this phase, my opinion is No. Coverage is very important metric,
I agree. But we have not enough resource

- "I submit my translations, please review".
  Yes, please input your items to our review queue after doing your first step.

Again, thank you for your contribution spirit!  I'm waiting for your
answer and working with you.

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Re: Japanese team (reviewer) is not working

[BALLOON a.k.a. Fu-sen.]

I needed to this details so that you understand the problem.
I worked on it.


The subject is:

"Japanese team (reviewer) is not working".


We will need to consider web translation separately topic (or another
location?).
For example idea, Add translation candidates from Web translation to
Launchpad. It can improve the translation work.


To translators other than Japanese:
  This may be a problem now occurring or occurring later even in your
native language.
  Please think together and take measures.


This sentence is long. I apologize in advance. Sorry...



- Recent status of Japanese Linux distribution
Japan is a country where the use of Windows is particularly advantageous.
Even if you look at nearby PC shops and Amazon.co.jp,
PCs there are pretty Windows preinstalled (and Mac).

With the expiration of Windows XP, there was a movement to install the
Linux distribution on the PC.
Ubuntu flavors will also have acquired new users.

but Windows 7 was offered free of charge to upgrade to Windows 10,
There are few Linux distributions including Ubuntu flavors on PCs that
have run out of Windows.


The users currently supporting the Japanese Linux distribution is
decreasing by these.
Outside of Ubuntu, the following effects are also occurring:

-- Linux Mint
local group "Linux Mint Japan" has lost members to work.
The update of their top page is insufficient:
http://linuxmint-jp.net/

Linux Mint has already released 18.1 completely, but this page remains "18".
Recently the server has been suspended for a few days.

-- elementary OS
Their translation team was totally out of functionality.
Proposed members are not processed:
https://launchpad.net/~elementary-l10n-ja

I appealed this to the community.
A translation officer soon formed a new team:
https://launchpad.net/~elementary-l10n-jap
https://launchpad.net/~elementary-translators/+members

-- Vine Linux
https://vinelinux.org/

It is a distant distribution "from Japan" that is still well-known.
Vine Linux builds and manages packages on its own.
They were working towards the release of Vine Linux 7.
but it has led to a serious maintenance shortage.
So they are releasing Vine Linux 6.5.
Vine Linux 6.5 is already half year since the beta launch.


- Current status of Ubuntu Japanese Team
"Ubuntu Japanese Team" is Ubuntu's one local community.
It will be a Japanese distribution community that "represents the Japan".
but the team has obvious effects.

Team regularly held weekly meetings at IRC.
but that log stopped on August 18, 2015:
https://wiki.ubuntulinux.jp/IRCMeeting/

Clearly the work of the team is declining.

IRC meeting voting is included as a transition team' s participation transition:
https://wiki.ubuntulinux.jp/enroll/translator_candidates

  投票
  ・投票は、「Candidates」となった貢献者に対して、
主として毎月第一回目の "IRCミーティング" 上で行う。

  (translation)
  Voting
  - voting is done mainly on the "IRC meeting" first of the every month
for contributors who became 'Candidates'.

This work will not be done...


https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-ja/+members#active

The final addition of Member since is "June 10, 2014".


- Current status of “Ubuntu Japanese Translators” team
https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-ja

1 year translation work will be displayed as a numerical value as "Kerma":
https://launchpad.net/+help-registry/karma.html

So I looked up the karma of the Active members:
https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-ja/+members#active

Result:
  Akihiro Nishimura: 0
  Akira Tanaka: 83
  epii: 2
  Fumihito YOSHIDA: 35
  Hiroshi Miura: 0
  Hiroshi Tagawa: 14
  Jiro Matsuzawa: 51
  Jun Kobayashi: 35
  kawaji: 0
  Kenichi Ito: 194
  Kentaro Kazuhama: 110
  Koichi Akabe: 7
  lindwurm: 3
  luyikei: 0
  Naruhiko Ogasawara: 0
  Nazo: 1
  Satoshi Kubo: 0
  Shushi Kurose: 555
  Takahiro Sato: 0
  Taro Yamazaki: 0
  Toshiya TSURU: 0
  Ubuntu Japanese Team: (Team)
  Yasuaki Taniguchi: 40
  Yuki Kodama: 0

This result, there seems to be only 1 member active actively.
Clearly the review activity is stopped.
In the past year 16.04 LTS release and work are included.
This is a serious situation.


- Influence of Ubuntu flavors
"ubiquity-slideshow" The actual translation situation will be easy to explore:
https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu

A few days ago Ubuntu flavors released 16.04.2 LTS.
Translation reflection information of that ubiquity-slideshow is as follows.
I shot an installation movie using Daily Build before releasing 16.04.2.
That movie is now on YouTube. I included that URL.:

Ubuntu Desktop Image: Complete Japanese
  Note to Japanese users:
   This is "not" Ubuntu Japanese Remix, provided by Ubuntu Japanese Team
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2n1IXcgXacg (2:15)

Kubuntu: Some English
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONPk2CGnvdQ (3:00)

Xubuntu: Complete Japanese
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMir7we31E0 (1:56)

Lubuntu: Complete Japanese
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7Lhh4kTEQs (1:41)

Ubuntu GNOME: Some English
https://www.youtube.c

Re: Japanese team (reviewer) is not working

[Fumihito YOSHIDA]

Hi,

> Sorry, someone please arbitrate. That's why I appealed here.
> Then, this will not solve anything.

Sorry for later,  and I feel your something uneasiness, but I can't
share your problem yet

Recap of my viewpoint:

  - Ubuntu Japanese Translator still live when you use valid approach.
And, I believe that this is answer of your concern, you did not
contact with valid procedure.

  - When you want to contribute Japanese Translation, you can do it.

  - If you want to become Ubuntu Japanese Translator, you have to
build up your qualifiable results.

Would you please share your concern?

And, you want to became Ubuntu Translator (or adjust our bar), I must
say "No" with strong pain, you are not achieved our minimum bar(Lang
skill and experience for collaboration works) for healthy translations
at this time. So, please build up yourself with us!



Again^2, I send out a *last notice*, you have to show your relevance
in your works in past days. If not provided in a few weeks(because
Z-release are coming), we must revert your works, because your
translation output doesnt't match to FLOSS context.

And, some users  mention to me about your suggestion in translation of
ElementaryOS, that page have a message : "you can use machine
translation", but, I think that have no inquest about license
violation.
https://elementaryjapan.jimdo.com/%E6%97%A5%E6%9C%AC%E8%AA%9E%E7%BF%BB%E8%A8%B3/

So, in this phase, I have a sense of crisis from this page and your
translation works. Sorry for this explicit question,  but I must say
this, you don't have enough knowledge about FLOSS cultures and
licensing?  And, please provide your truth in past works(see past
replies).

Regards,

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Re: Japanese team (reviewer) is not working

[BALLOON a.k.a. Fu-sen.]

Sorry, someone please arbitrate. That's why I appealed here.
Then, this will not solve anything.

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Re: Japanese team (reviewer) is not working

[Fumihito YOSHIDA]

> Please understand the true meaning I have appealed here!
> I do not bother posting it here in English to want a reviewer!!

Sorry, but I have to follow our discipline, bad quality and license
violation are real disaster for us.

Again, Please provide your truth about past days, this is very
important for us. Your commits are not based web-translation,
right?

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Re: Japanese team (reviewer) is not working

[BALLOON a.k.a. Fu-sen.]

Please understand the true meaning I have appealed here!
I do not bother posting it here in English to want a reviewer!!


BALLOON a.k.a. Fu-sen. (Keiichi SHIGA)
balloonakafu...@gmail.com
https://launchpad.net/~balloon

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Re: Japanese team (reviewer) is not working

[Fumihito YOSHIDA]

> This is the result that you tried to keep it:
> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-ja/+members
>
> 2014 has not been added at the end. Are you still going to keep it?
> This seems to need to consider somewhat. I appealed to it for that.

Shortly, Yes. This result is not expected, but as prepared.

We still need our high bar for translators(=comitters), we can not
accept bad translations for Japanese users, sorry for limited
resource, but Japanese Translators(include me) are work as quality
gate, no one achieve our bar, so we can't scale, as intended.
But, you can contribute to Japanese Translations, because
non-translator contributors still smaller than Translators resources.
Please use our predefined way...

And, this is constatation for correction, you had not submit with
Web-based(license violated) translation yet in past days, is it right?

Regards,

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Re: Japanese team (reviewer) is not working

[BALLOON a.k.a. Fu-sen.]

This is the result that you tried to keep it:
https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-ja/+members

2014 has not been added at the end. Are you still going to keep it?
This seems to need to consider somewhat. I appealed to it for that.


BALLOON a.k.a. Fu-sen. (Keiichi SHIGA)
balloonakafu...@gmail.com
https://launchpad.net/~balloon

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Re: Japanese team (reviewer) is not working

[Fumihito YOSHIDA]

Hi,

> However, since the quality of Web translation is also improving,
> it should not completely deny it.
> It improves translation improvement now.

  Partially yes, but I have to say "No" in Ubuntu Translations. We can
*not* use web based machine translation systems in FLOSS products,
that cause serious license issue, not (only) quality problem. If you
submit web-based machine translations at past-days, please revert
these outputs.

> However, it seems that it has refused participation of a new reviewer
> due to the influence which is sticking to quality too much.

  I must say "No", sorry. Because messy translations break the chance
of using user-side machine translations (with web-based translations)
.
  Please take care of itself.  Users can translate with machine
translation in their hands.

> Existing members will have a day to change one day.
> For that, we must have a new user.
> There is no user who can perfectly work perfectly...
> It is the same for everything. Both translators and communities...
>
> I am seeing many translations back in English with recent Ubuntu flavors.
> It is obviously a lack of reviewer. I hope to solve this problem at an
> early date.

  No, this is not only reviewers resources problem, that caused by
our(Japanese Team) policy: "If you find not good translation and you
done have enough time for brush-up, don't accept that."

Regards,

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Re: Japanese team (reviewer) is not working

[BALLOON a.k.a. Fu-sen.]

Hi Yoshida-san,


First of all I thank you for your contribution to date.
The current Ubuntu flavors has been installed normally
so that Japanese desktop can be easily used.
That is a major factor that Japanese users including me continue to use Ubuntu.
ありがとうございます。(Thank you.)

I was feeling a sense of crisis really, so I am a bit relieved to this reaction.


I also feel about the quality of translation as I see it.
I have experienced many things that translations translated especially
from foreign users recently have to be revised again.
Especially translated texts translated from foreign users recently use
Web translation,
I have experienced many things in other translation projects that I
have to revise again.
However, since the quality of Web translation is also improving,
it should not completely deny it.
It improves translation improvement now.

However, it seems that it has refused participation of a new reviewer
due to the influence which is sticking to quality too much.
Existing members will have a day to change one day.
For that, we must have a new user.
There is no user who can perfectly work perfectly...
It is the same for everything. Both translators and communities...

I am seeing many translations back in English with recent Ubuntu flavors.
It is obviously a lack of reviewer. I hope to solve this problem at an
early date.


Let's continue to provide Ubuntu to Japanese users in good condition.
I will cooperate with it as much as possible.


BALLOON a.k.a. Fu-sen. (Keiichi SHIGA)
balloonakafu...@gmail.com
https://launchpad.net/~balloon

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Re: Japanese team (reviewer) is not working

[Fumihito YOSHIDA]

Hi, I'm Fumihito YOSHIDA, one of admin of Japanese Translators.

  Firstly, thank you for your great contribution to Japanese
translators, and I apologies for my slow reply and your concern.
Probably this reply doesn't enough faster than your expectation, but
not too late for corrections.

  And, I belive that "visibility solve any problem", so I answerd in
this public list. ...Yes, we have limited skill for English
communication, but we (you and me) can try for that.

  Sorry for bothering to other language guys!

  
  Your concern are caused by something our limited resource (include
my lazy) and some imbroglio, I can't divite into strict result, so I
try to expain how Japanese Translator works.
  And, I have one concern about your circs, you send mail to Japanese
Translators admins at 2/21 20:25(JST), but, your first mail in this
list(2/21 21:02 JST) are almost immediately, that have just 30
minutes. So, please share your urgency for that quick actions. I have
half expect, you love *buntu and you are concerned with the lack of
translations in next Z release.
  

  Okay, I try to explain about Ubuntu Japanese Translator system and
contact points, that is part of my answer for your concern.

  Premise: Japanese Translation Team have some contact points and ping
ways.  But we hadn't recieved your contacts. Please use valid way for
that, because we have limited resources in this time.
   Yes, Our IRC meeting habits have are died. Our meeting triggered by
mail in ubuntu-jp lists, sorry for this and not clearly announcement.

  Therefor, this is not real blocker for your translation work. Please
recheck the procedure in our wiki.
  https://wiki.ubuntulinux.jp/Translation

- If you want to contribute japanese translations, you have no call to
below heavy procedure, just do below simplified way.

  0) Input your translation to Rosetta.
  1) Update the waiting list for reviewing. They are coodicate by
per-release rules. If that is not exist, please create new page for
new releases.

  Yes, we are in sometimes busy, from 2015/Oct, that page doesn't work
in now, but we are still in live. Please use this way. This is
combat-proofed/well-trained way in Japanese translations.

- If you want to get translator rights, please use this procedure (at
Japanese wiki).
  see also: https://wiki.ubuntulinux.jp/enroll/translator_candidates

  0) Fill your prereq activities
  1) Update the meeting wiki.
  2) Mail to ubuntu-jp lists for convocation.
  3) Get translator rights, if you have enough credence.

  IMPORTANT NOTE: right of Ubuntu Japanese Translator are not
mandatary for Japanese translations.

  But, I have to say in a straightforward way in this situation with
strong pain, but I say with my sincerity.
  So, Your translation quantities are readlly good (and enough for
reviewing), but that doesn't have enough quality in this moment.
  Please take the suggestions seriously from Ikuya Awashiro before few
years ago.

   I have strong concern about your translation accuracy, so I advice
you that "if you are far from convinced, please stay as English with
braveheart." policy. This is very important part of Japanese
Translators duty.

  
-

  And, I feel desperate need of more explain about our process, please
read below.

  Yet Another Premise: We have 2 explicit (+1 implicit) bars for new
ubuntu japanese translator.

  - Bar 1) Get three endorsement +1 by existence translators. That +1
are provided by review for your past translations.

  - Bar 2) Enough quantities for screening out. Too small quantity
doesn't match process 1).

  - Implicit Bar) You have to prove that you can became good
cooperative guys, that include language skill, ubuntu experiences(as a
user, sometimes administrator in some translations), patience and
humilities for good collaborative activities. This is implicit rule,
but we have CoC, I belived that make sense on fronts!

  Yes, this is heavy process and not low bar, but that have some
historical background.
  In old days, we(Japanese Translators) use open commit policy.  But,
at given day, we met UI crisis by messy commits and license violated
machine translation (e.g.: 「symbolic link -> 象徴的結合」 and using
Excite翻訳) .

  In that days, we have to revert and revert and revert and review and
review and review that many commits, these are really nightmare days
(main worker: Ikuya Awashiro and me).

  After that terrible days, we(+ Japanese Team and Japanese
Translators) have one insight, translation are not easy works
(Especially, you may know, English -> Japanese Translation are!), and
translator must have language skill and good spirit for collaborative
activities. So, we decided to use moderated styles.

  Additionaly, we believe that English(non-translation) are better
than messy translation, becau

Re: Japanese team (reviewer) is not working

[BALLOON a.k.a. Fu-sen.]

Hi, Murata-san

Is it a procedure to report to Japanese team members and urge resolution?
I can not expect that solution already. So I'm reporting to the upper
level here.

BALLOON a.k.a. Fu-sen. (Keiichi SHIGA)
balloonakafu...@gmail.com
https://launchpad.net/~balloon

2017-02-21 21:33 GMT+09:00 Nobuto Murata :
> Better not to contact a team admin individually, but through mailing lists
> for this kind of topics. Personally I don't think the IRC meeting is
> relevant at this stage.
>
> Thanks,
>
> 2017/02/21 午後9:24 "BALLOON a.k.a. Fu-sen." :
>
> Hi, Mutata-san
>
> I am in contact with the team admin. But there is no reaction.
> amd Tuesday(Japan Time) was the meeting day of Japanese Team,
> I entered IRC and posted, but there was not any conversation.
> These are not working...
>
>
> BALLOON a.k.a. Fu-sen. (Keiichi SHIGA)
> balloonakafu...@gmail.com
> https://launchpad.net/~balloon
>
>
> 2017-02-21 21:13 GMT+09:00 Nobuto Murata :
>> Hi,
>>
>> You can always reach out to Ubuntu local community in Japan via:
>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-jp
>>
>> Or translators team directly:
>> ubuntu-l10n...@lists.launchpad.net
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> 2017/02/21 午後9:02 "BALLOON a.k.a. Fu-sen." :
>>>
>>> Hi everyone in the translation team.
>>>
>>> I recently performed Ubuntu flavor Japanese translation, but it is not
>>> reflected.
>>>
>>> For example slideshow-ubuntu-mate has not been reviewed since 2014,
>>> There are many items of Suggestions.
>>>
>>>
>>> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/zesty/+source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+pots/slideshow-ubuntu-mate/ja/+translate
>>>
>>> The team has not approved a new reviewer last in 2014.
>>> I still have a name on Pending approval.
>>> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-ja
>>> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-ja/+members
>>>
>>> It is approved by the local team "Ubuntu Japanese Team".
>>> https://wiki.ubuntulinux.jp/enroll/translator_candidates
>>>
>>> But this team's meeting has not worked for about 2 years.
>>> https://wiki.ubuntulinux.jp/IRCMeeting (Japanese)
>>>
>>> In this state, Japanese translation of Ubuntu flavors is getting worse!
>>> Can you support this problem?
>>>
>>> BALLOON a.k.a. Fu-sen. (Keiichi SHIGA)
>>> balloonakafu...@gmail.com
>>> https://launchpad.net/~balloon
>>>
>>> --
>>> ubuntu-translators mailing list
>>> ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com
>>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
>
>

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Re: Japanese team (reviewer) is not working

[Nobuto Murata]

Better not to contact a team admin individually, but through mailing lists
for this kind of topics. Personally I don't think the IRC meeting is
relevant at this stage.

Thanks,

2017/02/21 午後9:24 "BALLOON a.k.a. Fu-sen." :

Hi, Mutata-san

I am in contact with the team admin. But there is no reaction.
amd Tuesday(Japan Time) was the meeting day of Japanese Team,
I entered IRC and posted, but there was not any conversation.
These are not working...


BALLOON a.k.a. Fu-sen. (Keiichi SHIGA)
balloonakafu...@gmail.com
https://launchpad.net/~balloon


2017-02-21 21:13 GMT+09:00 Nobuto Murata :
> Hi,
>
> You can always reach out to Ubuntu local community in Japan via:
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-jp
>
> Or translators team directly:
> ubuntu-l10n...@lists.launchpad.net
>
> Thanks,
>
> 2017/02/21 午後9:02 "BALLOON a.k.a. Fu-sen." :
>>
>> Hi everyone in the translation team.
>>
>> I recently performed Ubuntu flavor Japanese translation, but it is not
>> reflected.
>>
>> For example slideshow-ubuntu-mate has not been reviewed since 2014,
>> There are many items of Suggestions.
>>
>> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/zesty/+
source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+pots/slideshow-ubuntu-mate/ja/+translate
>>
>> The team has not approved a new reviewer last in 2014.
>> I still have a name on Pending approval.
>> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-ja
>> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-ja/+members
>>
>> It is approved by the local team "Ubuntu Japanese Team".
>> https://wiki.ubuntulinux.jp/enroll/translator_candidates
>>
>> But this team's meeting has not worked for about 2 years.
>> https://wiki.ubuntulinux.jp/IRCMeeting (Japanese)
>>
>> In this state, Japanese translation of Ubuntu flavors is getting worse!
>> Can you support this problem?
>>
>> BALLOON a.k.a. Fu-sen. (Keiichi SHIGA)
>> balloonakafu...@gmail.com
>> https://launchpad.net/~balloon
>>
>> --
>> ubuntu-translators mailing list
>> ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com
>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
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Re: Japanese team (reviewer) is not working

[BALLOON a.k.a. Fu-sen.]

Hi, Mutata-san

I am in contact with the team admin. But there is no reaction.
amd Tuesday(Japan Time) was the meeting day of Japanese Team,
I entered IRC and posted, but there was not any conversation.
These are not working...


BALLOON a.k.a. Fu-sen. (Keiichi SHIGA)
balloonakafu...@gmail.com
https://launchpad.net/~balloon


2017-02-21 21:13 GMT+09:00 Nobuto Murata :
> Hi,
>
> You can always reach out to Ubuntu local community in Japan via:
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-jp
>
> Or translators team directly:
> ubuntu-l10n...@lists.launchpad.net
>
> Thanks,
>
> 2017/02/21 午後9:02 "BALLOON a.k.a. Fu-sen." :
>>
>> Hi everyone in the translation team.
>>
>> I recently performed Ubuntu flavor Japanese translation, but it is not
>> reflected.
>>
>> For example slideshow-ubuntu-mate has not been reviewed since 2014,
>> There are many items of Suggestions.
>>
>> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/zesty/+source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+pots/slideshow-ubuntu-mate/ja/+translate
>>
>> The team has not approved a new reviewer last in 2014.
>> I still have a name on Pending approval.
>> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-ja
>> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-ja/+members
>>
>> It is approved by the local team "Ubuntu Japanese Team".
>> https://wiki.ubuntulinux.jp/enroll/translator_candidates
>>
>> But this team's meeting has not worked for about 2 years.
>> https://wiki.ubuntulinux.jp/IRCMeeting (Japanese)
>>
>> In this state, Japanese translation of Ubuntu flavors is getting worse!
>> Can you support this problem?
>>
>> BALLOON a.k.a. Fu-sen. (Keiichi SHIGA)
>> balloonakafu...@gmail.com
>> https://launchpad.net/~balloon
>>
>> --
>> ubuntu-translators mailing list
>> ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com
>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators

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Re: Japanese team (reviewer) is not working

[Nobuto Murata]

Hi,

You can always reach out to Ubuntu local community in Japan via:
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-jp

Or translators team directly:
ubuntu-l10n...@lists.launchpad.net

Thanks,

2017/02/21 午後9:02 "BALLOON a.k.a. Fu-sen." :

> Hi everyone in the translation team.
>
> I recently performed Ubuntu flavor Japanese translation, but it is not
> reflected.
>
> For example slideshow-ubuntu-mate has not been reviewed since 2014,
> There are many items of Suggestions.
> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/zesty/+
> source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+pots/slideshow-ubuntu-mate/ja/+translate
>
> The team has not approved a new reviewer last in 2014.
> I still have a name on Pending approval.
> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-ja
> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-ja/+members
>
> It is approved by the local team "Ubuntu Japanese Team".
> https://wiki.ubuntulinux.jp/enroll/translator_candidates
>
> But this team's meeting has not worked for about 2 years.
> https://wiki.ubuntulinux.jp/IRCMeeting (Japanese)
>
> In this state, Japanese translation of Ubuntu flavors is getting worse!
> Can you support this problem?
>
> BALLOON a.k.a. Fu-sen. (Keiichi SHIGA)
> balloonakafu...@gmail.com
> https://launchpad.net/~balloon
>
> --
> ubuntu-translators mailing list
> ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
>
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