Re: Translatable Code of Conduct (CoC) and Leadership Code of Conduct (LCoC)
Hi Tom, How nice to get a reaction from an outsider. The use of the English term or a translation (if there is one), depends on the translator; btw, there is no Dutch translation for the word 'software'. Translating on Launchpad often leads to a mix of English and Dutch term because many people work on one translation. I do not know if the same is true for other languages. It is not a very big issue, but it is an interesting one. Regards, Hannie - Original Message - From: Tom Davies To: Hannie Cc: ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 10:55 AM Subject: Re: Translatable Code of Conduct (CoC) and Leadership Code of Conduct (LCoC) Hi :) I like to think that there will be new generations of computer users able to converse about technical issues without resorting to English/American words. If technical users are able to understand the non-English equivalent of software (for example) but would find it a bit strange then i think that the non-English word 'should' be used unless it creates a lot of extra work. If a person new to computers (are there anyone like that these days) might find it more difficult to use the 'native' word rather than the english/american one then i guess it is more important to make it easy for them. I imagine that is exactly what a lot of your discussions are about? I just thought i would add my opinion as an outsider. Regards from Tom :) snip -- Do we need English = English translation ? : - For translation works, many paraphrase creates good translations. (see also: Paraphrasing Social from the start[2]) Any ideas? Again, that is something that needs to be discussed within each team. We, in Catalan, for example tend to adhere to the practice of trying to translate everything and not rely on English terms, where it applies (e.g. we translate software to programari, but we do not translate e.g. Rhythmbox) We often have discussions on what to translate and what not. In the Netherlands many English terms are used, especially computer terms. Words like software, hardware, update, link, backup, printer are not translated. But if there is a good Dutch alternative, I personally prefer to use the Dutch word, e.g. backup = reservekopie. But what does the average user prefer? My opinion is this: experienced users prefer the English terms, especially when they are technical, e.g. backend. When users are new to Ubuntu, it depends on whether they have experience with other operating systems or not. For absolute beginners it doesn't matter, both will be new to them. This is just my personal opinion. Regards, Hannie Regards, David. [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/KnowledgeBase/TranslationGuidelines -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 170 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
Re: Translatable Code of Conduct (CoC) and Leadership Code of Conduct (LCoC)
Hi David, If I understand you correctly, I believe you are referring to the creation of a global glossary for translation terms. Ah, I can't explain it in English, but its not only glossary, not terminology. In many cases, terms has many colors according to the context, glossary is the wrong caliber. So, I believe that below items boost up translation works. - commentary on the CoC - putting the CoC in another way - CoC word-for-word translation in *English* Probably, these are not only glossary/terminology Regards, -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
Re: Translatable Code of Conduct (CoC) and Leadership Code of Conduct (LCoC)
Op 20-10-10 18:29, David Planella schreef: El dc 20 de 10 de 2010 a les 10:50 +0900, en/na Fumihito YOSHIDA va escriure: Hi David and all, Thanks a lot for your input. If I understand you correctly, I believe you are referring to the creation of a global glossary for translation terms. I personally think that this is something that every team should take care of, and it is something that we recommend to be in their translation guidelines [1], as only the people familiar with the given language know best which terms and how they need to be translated. We, Ubuntu Dutch translators use the following site a lot: http://en.nl.open-tran.eu/ I can recommend it to all translators. However, I do see the value in creating a global glossary that teams could use as a template and simply translate. There were efforts in that direction some time ago: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-translators/2009-December/003170.html If this is an area you believe to be important, and would like to see it improved, I'd very much encourage you to revive that effort, or lead a new project to create a global translation glossary (or memory) for all teams. I'll certainly be glad to help, as I'm sure other people on the list will be. Do we need English = English translation ? : - For translation works, many paraphrase creates good translations. (see also: Paraphrasing Social from the start[2]) Any ideas? Again, that is something that needs to be discussed within each team. We, in Catalan, for example tend to adhere to the practice of trying to translate everything and not rely on English terms, where it applies (e.g. we translate software to programari, but we do not translate e.g. Rhythmbox) We often have discussions on what to translate and what not. In the Netherlands many English terms are used, especially computer terms. Words like software, hardware, update, link, backup, printer are not translated. But if there is a good Dutch alternative, I personally prefer to use the Dutch word, e.g. backup = reservekopie. But what does the average user prefer? My opinion is this: experienced users prefer the English terms, especially when they are technical, e.g. backend. When users are new to Ubuntu, it depends on whether they have experience with other operating systems or not. For absolute beginners it doesn't matter, both will be new to them. This is just my personal opinion. Regards, Hannie Regards, David. [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/KnowledgeBase/TranslationGuidelines -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
Re: Translatable Code of Conduct (CoC) and Leadership Code of Conduct (LCoC)
Hi :) I like to think that there will be new generations of computer users able to converse about technical issues without resorting to English/American words. If technical users are able to understand the non-English equivalent of software (for example) but would find it a bit strange then i think that the non-English word 'should' be used unless it creates a lot of extra work. If a person new to computers (are there anyone like that these days) might find it more difficult to use the 'native' word rather than the english/american one then i guess it is more important to make it easy for them. I imagine that is exactly what a lot of your discussions are about? I just thought i would add my opinion as an outsider. Regards from Tom :) From: Hannie lafeber-dumole...@zonnet.nl To: Ubuntu Translators ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com Sent: Thu, 21 October, 2010 9:00:00 Subject: Re: Translatable Code of Conduct (CoC) and Leadership Code of Conduct (LCoC) Op 20-10-10 18:29, David Planella schreef: El dc 20 de 10 de 2010 a les 10:50 +0900, en/na Fumihito YOSHIDA va escriure: Hi David and all, Thanks a lot for your input. If I understand you correctly, I believe you are referring to the creation of a global glossary for translation terms. I personally think that this is something that every team should take care of, and it is something that we recommend to be in their translation guidelines [1], as only the people familiar with the given language know best which terms and how they need to be translated. We, Ubuntu Dutch translators use the following site a lot: http://en.nl.open-tran.eu/ I can recommend it to all translators. However, I do see the value in creating a global glossary that teams could use as a template and simply translate. There were efforts in that direction some time ago: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-translators/2009-December/003170.html If this is an area you believe to be important, and would like to see it improved, I'd very much encourage you to revive that effort, or lead a new project to create a global translation glossary (or memory) for all teams. I'll certainly be glad to help, as I'm sure other people on the list will be. Do we need English = English translation ? : - For translation works, many paraphrase creates good translations. (see also: Paraphrasing Social from the start[2]) Any ideas? Again, that is something that needs to be discussed within each team. We, in Catalan, for example tend to adhere to the practice of trying to translate everything and not rely on English terms, where it applies (e.g. we translate software to programari, but we do not translate e.g. Rhythmbox) We often have discussions on what to translate and what not. In the Netherlands many English terms are used, especially computer terms. Words like software, hardware, update, link, backup, printer are not translated. But if there is a good Dutch alternative, I personally prefer to use the Dutch word, e.g. backup = reservekopie. But what does the average user prefer? My opinion is this: experienced users prefer the English terms, especially when they are technical, e.g. backend. When users are new to Ubuntu, it depends on whether they have experience with other operating systems or not. For absolute beginners it doesn't matter, both will be new to them. This is just my personal opinion. Regards, Hannie Regards, David. [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/KnowledgeBase/TranslationGuidelines -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
Re: Translatable Code of Conduct (CoC) and Leadership Code of Conduct (LCoC)
CoC is possibly too similar to a rude word in English. Is it possible to change it? Regards from Tom :) - Original Message From: David Planella david.plane...@ubuntu.com To: Ubuntu Translators ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com Cc: Ubuntu local community team (LoCo) contacts loco-conta...@lists.ubuntu.com Sent: Tue, 19 October, 2010 19:39:15 Subject: Translatable Code of Conduct (CoC) and Leadership Code of Conduct (LCoC) Hi all, I just wanted to let you know about the blueprint I've just drafted for a UDS session to discuss an effort to make the Ubuntu Code of Conduct (CoC) and Leadership Code of Conduct translatable [1]. From the summary: We want to provide the Code of Conduct (CoC) and the Leadership Code of Conduct (LCoC) in anyone's own language, and we want to enable the community to translate it. We'd like to discuss the steps needed to make this possible and to find people intersted in contributing to this goal [...] I want to be clear on this: this is an objective I'm very excited about, but due to other projects already in our Roadmap [2], I will probably not have the time to work on it this cycle. Nevertheless, I think we should have the discussion at UDS. I'll be glad to help anyone wanting to participate, and it would be even more awesome if someone would be willing to lead this effort. For all of you interested, you can subscribe to the blueprint and attend the session if you can. Thanks! Regards, David. [1] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntutheproject-community-n-translations-translatable-coc/ [2] http://is.gd/g8uJn -- David Planella Ubuntu Translations Coordinator www.ubuntu.com / www.davidplanella.wordpress.com www.identi.ca/dplanella / www.twitter.com/dplanella -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
Re: Translatable Code of Conduct (CoC) and Leadership Code of Conduct (LCoC)
Hi :)
Ubuntu governance bodies is a generic term to cover any organisation that is
in control of Ubuntu so it includes organisations such as the Community Council
and possibly official LoCo Teams too (although the LoCo Teams may have
geographically restricted influence directly (i don't know but it is
possible)). It is just vague enough to cover any future changes or
re-organisations or restructuring of the way Ubuntu is run.
This is not an official answer but just the way i would interpret the phrase.
Good luck and regards from
Tom :)
- Original Message
From: Fumihito YOSHIDA h...@ubuntu.com
To: David Planella david.plane...@ubuntu.com
Cc: Ubuntu Translators ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com; Ubuntu local
community team (LoCo) contacts loco-conta...@lists.ubuntu.com
Sent: Wed, 20 October, 2010 2:50:35
Subject: Re: Translatable Code of Conduct (CoC) and Leadership Code of Conduct
(LCoC)
Hi David and all,
For brainstorming, I propose yet another tasks. So,
- Do we need Onomasticon ?
- Do we need English = English translation ?
I just wanted to let you know about the blueprint I've just drafted for
a UDS session to discuss an effort to make the Ubuntu Code of Conduct
(CoC) and Leadership Code of Conduct translatable [1].
From the summary:
We want to provide the Code of Conduct (CoC) and the Leadership Code of
Conduct (LCoC) in anyone's own language, and we want to enable the
community to translate it.
We (Japanese LoCo) had translate CoC already( http://bit.ly/9WJ80c ).
In translation works, we face some challenges about CoC/LCoC terms.
Do we need Onomasticon ? :
- CoC has some {philosophical implications, Ubuntu governance term}.
For example, Ubuntu governance bodies. We need long discussion about
this term, because we have to analyze , it include nuance? Or, is it
proper name?(like Community Council?)
In this case, we check Jono's blog[1] and other documents, but it is
heavy to dicisions. But if we had proper name lists, we can work easily.
Do we need English = English translation ? :
- For translation works, many paraphrase creates good translations.
(see also: Paraphrasing Social from the start[2])
Any ideas?
[1] http://www.jonobacon.org/2009/08/09/
[2] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-translators/2010-April/003502.html
Regards,
--
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Re: Translatable Code of Conduct (CoC) and Leadership Code of Conduct (LCoC)
El dc 20 de 10 de 2010 a les 11:11 +0100, en/na Tom Davies va escriure: CoC is possibly too similar to a rude word in English. Is it possible to change it? Regards from Tom :) Hi Tom, For any concerns about the usage of the acronym, I'd suggest you contact the Community Council: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil That said, I've never heard someone using the acronym in speech. People tend to refer to it as the code of conduct, which gives no room for ambiguities. Regards, David. - Original Message From: David Planella david.plane...@ubuntu.com To: Ubuntu Translators ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com Cc: Ubuntu local community team (LoCo) contacts loco-conta...@lists.ubuntu.com Sent: Tue, 19 October, 2010 19:39:15 Subject: Translatable Code of Conduct (CoC) and Leadership Code of Conduct (LCoC) Hi all, I just wanted to let you know about the blueprint I've just drafted for a UDS session to discuss an effort to make the Ubuntu Code of Conduct (CoC) and Leadership Code of Conduct translatable [1]. From the summary: We want to provide the Code of Conduct (CoC) and the Leadership Code of Conduct (LCoC) in anyone's own language, and we want to enable the community to translate it. We'd like to discuss the steps needed to make this possible and to find people intersted in contributing to this goal [...] I want to be clear on this: this is an objective I'm very excited about, but due to other projects already in our Roadmap [2], I will probably not have the time to work on it this cycle. Nevertheless, I think we should have the discussion at UDS. I'll be glad to help anyone wanting to participate, and it would be even more awesome if someone would be willing to lead this effort. For all of you interested, you can subscribe to the blueprint and attend the session if you can. Thanks! Regards, David. [1] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntutheproject-community-n-translations-translatable-coc/ [2] http://is.gd/g8uJn -- David Planella Ubuntu Translations Coordinator www.ubuntu.com / www.davidplanella.wordpress.com www.identi.ca/dplanella / www.twitter.com/dplanella signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
Re: Translatable Code of Conduct (CoC) and Leadership Code of Conduct (LCoC)
Good good. As long as common sense continues to prevail we are ok Regards from Tom :) - Original Message From: David Planella david.plane...@ubuntu.com To: Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk Cc: ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com Sent: Wed, 20 October, 2010 16:52:52 Subject: Re: Translatable Code of Conduct (CoC) and Leadership Code of Conduct (LCoC) El dc 20 de 10 de 2010 a les 11:11 +0100, en/na Tom Davies va escriure: CoC is possibly too similar to a rude word in English. Is it possible to change it? Regards from Tom :) Hi Tom, For any concerns about the usage of the acronym, I'd suggest you contact the Community Council: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil That said, I've never heard someone using the acronym in speech. People tend to refer to it as the code of conduct, which gives no room for ambiguities. Regards, David. - Original Message From: David Planella david.plane...@ubuntu.com To: Ubuntu Translators ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com Cc: Ubuntu local community team (LoCo) contacts loco-conta...@lists.ubuntu.com Sent: Tue, 19 October, 2010 19:39:15 Subject: Translatable Code of Conduct (CoC) and Leadership Code of Conduct (LCoC) Hi all, I just wanted to let you know about the blueprint I've just drafted for a UDS session to discuss an effort to make the Ubuntu Code of Conduct (CoC) and Leadership Code of Conduct translatable [1]. From the summary: We want to provide the Code of Conduct (CoC) and the Leadership Code of Conduct (LCoC) in anyone's own language, and we want to enable the community to translate it. We'd like to discuss the steps needed to make this possible and to find people intersted in contributing to this goal [...] I want to be clear on this: this is an objective I'm very excited about, but due to other projects already in our Roadmap [2], I will probably not have the time to work on it this cycle. Nevertheless, I think we should have the discussion at UDS. I'll be glad to help anyone wanting to participate, and it would be even more awesome if someone would be willing to lead this effort. For all of you interested, you can subscribe to the blueprint and attend the session if you can. Thanks! Regards, David. [1] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntutheproject-community-n-translations-translatable-coc/ / [2] http://is.gd/g8uJn -- David Planella Ubuntu Translations Coordinator www.ubuntu.com / www.davidplanella.wordpress.com www.identi.ca/dplanella / www.twitter.com/dplanella -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
Re: Translatable Code of Conduct (CoC) and Leadership Code of Conduct (LCoC)
El dc 20 de 10 de 2010 a les 10:50 +0900, en/na Fumihito YOSHIDA va
escriure:
Hi David and all,
For brainstorming, I propose yet another tasks. So,
- Do we need Onomasticon ?
- Do we need English = English translation ?
I just wanted to let you know about the blueprint I've just drafted for
a UDS session to discuss an effort to make the Ubuntu Code of Conduct
(CoC) and Leadership Code of Conduct translatable [1].
From the summary:
We want to provide the Code of Conduct (CoC) and the Leadership Code of
Conduct (LCoC) in anyone's own language, and we want to enable the
community to translate it.
We (Japanese LoCo) had translate CoC already( http://bit.ly/9WJ80c ).
In translation works, we face some challenges about CoC/LCoC terms.
Do we need Onomasticon ? :
- CoC has some {philosophical implications, Ubuntu governance term}.
For example, Ubuntu governance bodies. We need long discussion about
this term, because we have to analyze , it include nuance? Or, is it
proper name?(like Community Council?)
In this case, we check Jono's blog[1] and other documents, but it is
heavy to dicisions. But if we had proper name lists, we can work easily.
Hi Fumihito,
Thanks a lot for your input.
If I understand you correctly, I believe you are referring to the
creation of a global glossary for translation terms.
I personally think that this is something that every team should take
care of, and it is something that we recommend to be in their
translation guidelines [1], as only the people familiar with the given
language know best which terms and how they need to be translated.
However, I do see the value in creating a global glossary that teams
could use as a template and simply translate.
There were efforts in that direction some time ago:
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-translators/2009-December/003170.html
If this is an area you believe to be important, and would like to see it
improved, I'd very much encourage you to revive that effort, or lead a
new project to create a global translation glossary (or memory) for all
teams. I'll certainly be glad to help, as I'm sure other people on the
list will be.
Do we need English = English translation ? :
- For translation works, many paraphrase creates good translations.
(see also: Paraphrasing Social from the start[2])
Any ideas?
Again, that is something that needs to be discussed within each team.
We, in Catalan, for example tend to adhere to the practice of trying to
translate everything and not rely on English terms, where it applies
(e.g. we translate software to programari, but we do not translate
e.g. Rhythmbox)
Regards,
David.
[1]
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/KnowledgeBase/TranslationGuidelines
--
David Planella
Ubuntu Translations Coordinator
www.ubuntu.com / www.davidplanella.wordpress.com
www.identi.ca/dplanella / www.twitter.com/dplanella
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Re: Translatable Code of Conduct (CoC) and Leadership Code of Conduct (LCoC)
Hi David and all,
For brainstorming, I propose yet another tasks. So,
- Do we need Onomasticon ?
- Do we need English = English translation ?
I just wanted to let you know about the blueprint I've just drafted for
a UDS session to discuss an effort to make the Ubuntu Code of Conduct
(CoC) and Leadership Code of Conduct translatable [1].
From the summary:
We want to provide the Code of Conduct (CoC) and the Leadership Code of
Conduct (LCoC) in anyone's own language, and we want to enable the
community to translate it.
We (Japanese LoCo) had translate CoC already( http://bit.ly/9WJ80c ).
In translation works, we face some challenges about CoC/LCoC terms.
Do we need Onomasticon ? :
- CoC has some {philosophical implications, Ubuntu governance term}.
For example, Ubuntu governance bodies. We need long discussion about
this term, because we have to analyze , it include nuance? Or, is it
proper name?(like Community Council?)
In this case, we check Jono's blog[1] and other documents, but it is
heavy to dicisions. But if we had proper name lists, we can work easily.
Do we need English = English translation ? :
- For translation works, many paraphrase creates good translations.
(see also: Paraphrasing Social from the start[2])
Any ideas?
[1] http://www.jonobacon.org/2009/08/09/
[2] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-translators/2010-April/003502.html
Regards,
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