Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets
On 5/3/07, Chris Rowson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I always find this a toughy. One problem I often encounter in my 20 something peer group is lack of support for gaming. For instance, as I write this, I'm setting up a computer with Feisty and trying to get Eve online working on it. That's one thing that's very important to a lot of people, and a major blocker to takeup. I'd think that this needs looking at carefully. Why should I try this Linux thingy? Why am I ? Because it's reliable, free friendly. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets
Ian Pascoe wrote: One question that's been missed off all of this valuable discussions is: Why should I try this Linux thingy? PROLOGUE - I'm going to be contentious. I ought to explain that TheVeech and I exchanged emails offlist last night, in which we agreed that a bit of violent discussion would both lead to a better result than any individual could come up with AND hopefully spark contributions from people who have sat on the sidelines. BTW - if you want to carry on sitting on the sidelines and just reading, that's absolutely fine with me. However, I do find that many more people say nothing because they (wrongly) don't believe that they know enough than say things when they they are actually misunderstanding the issues. We generally get to better answers if more people join in. On that basis, if you all join in to tell me I'm wrong in what I'm writing below - that's FANTASTIC - it's the kind of thing I can use to improve my understanding and arguments in the future. MAIN ACT - I don't like free as a selling point unless I'm talking to someone where I know I have a minimum of 5 minutes to run through the issue. Free works very well in a longer format, like the recent BBC radio programme mentioned on the list a week or so ago. However, in a moment of truth, one of the hardest problems to overcome is what happens to potential users when you mention the word free, and most people will make a snap decision inside a ludicrously short period of time, rather than bothering to listen to the arguments. When most people hear the free word, they think zero cost: So for people thinking about an existing PC, it's a non-issue. They already have a copy of an O/S and continuing to use that is free in the money sense. The no money issue only applies if people were thinking of changing to Vista [1] or thinking of getting a new PC [2] Note 1: I suspect that another few months of horror stories about people who try to upgrade from XP to Vista will stop people wanting to do that. Note 2: Oh for a UK household name manufacturer who could ship Ubuntu. See other thread(s) about why we need to keep the pressure on Dell to offer this in the UK as well as the States AND why we need to make D*mned sure that the price of a PC with Ubuntu is less than the price of a PC with Vista. The problem with saying free and meaning freedom is that you then have to explain the difference. There are two issues that arise with this: Firstly, some people get put off and think that you're deliberately misusing words, and all the other things that _I_ get accused of :-) Secondly, most people aren't programmers, and therefore don't understand (short of a long conversation) why freedom to modify source code is overall good for them EVEN IF THEY THEMSELVES NEVER DO IT. Most people think I'm not a programmer, I'm never going to change the code, so it's of no benefit to me rather than Because lots of programmers can see what's really going on, the total community of skilled people available to fix bugs and add new features is far bigger than any single company, even one as big as Microsoft, could ever afford. Personally, I always like tables that say When should you use X, when should you use Y that deliberately come up with circumstances when using a competitor's product is better - they come over as honest (even if they are always self serving.)... and you also make the reasons to use the competitor sound very niche. Why Linux? - It's stable - most of the world's web servers and email servers run Linux because it crashes much, much less. - It's more secure - Linux was developed with a sophsticated security model from the ground up, and Ubuntu applies a set of defaults that mean that, even if a user clicks on a virus by mistake, they won't make it infect the PC. (As an aside, most viruses are written to only work on Windows - because it's a lot easier to write a virus that attacks Windows.) - There are a huge number of applications specifically designed to work together. In the Windows world it's very easy for a programmer to write one program that accidently causes another program to stop working. On Linux, because of the way that the code used to write programs is almost always available, it's very, very hard for a program to have these problems. Indeed, one of the things the Ubuntu community does is specifically check that things won't interfere with each other before they are included in a distribution. Why Windows? - At the moment, more PC vendors ship machines with Windows pre-installed than have Linux as an option. (However, many small local manufacturers offer Linux - it tends to be the big US multinationals that are pro-Microsoft, and Dell have recently started shipping Linux as an option, though today that's only available in the US.) - Some applications are written to only work on Windows. In most cases (email, web browsers, spreadsheet, word processing,
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets
Mark Harrison wrote: Ian Pascoe wrote: One question that's been missed off all of this valuable discussions is: Why should I try this Linux thingy? PROLOGUE - I'm going to be contentious. I ought to explain that TheVeech and I exchanged emails offlist last night, in which we agreed that a bit of violent discussion would both lead to a better result than any individual could come up with AND hopefully spark contributions from people who have sat on the sidelines. BTW - if you want to carry on sitting on the sidelines and just reading, that's absolutely fine with me. However, I do find that many more people say nothing because they (wrongly) don't believe that they know enough than say things when they they are actually misunderstanding the issues. We generally get to better answers if more people join in. On that basis, if you all join in to tell me I'm wrong in what I'm writing below - that's FANTASTIC - it's the kind of thing I can use to improve my understanding and arguments in the future. MAIN ACT - I don't like free as a selling point unless I'm talking to someone where I know I have a minimum of 5 minutes to run through the issue. Let's get the free as in gratis our of the way quickly. The cost of acquisition of OSS/FS software is near zero. You can download it if you have sufficient bandwidth (which you pay for) or you can purchase an inexpensive CD/DVD, or you can buy a boxed set which may/may not come with a manual. In all cases your cost of acquisition should be less than 100 GBP. Note: Some Enterprise versions cost much more, but you are purchasing multi-year support and that costs. You want 7x24 support, you've got to pay for it. Free works very well in a longer format, like the recent BBC radio programme mentioned on the list a week or so ago. However, in a moment of truth, one of the hardest problems to overcome is what happens to potential users when you mention the word free, and most people will make a snap decision inside a ludicrously short period of time, rather than bothering to listen to the arguments. When most people hear the free word, they think zero cost: Since we are pouring petrol on the fire, here is another take on what most people think when they here free. Free == Crap An attitude nurtured by PC World/PC Pro/PC Format.'et al' and 25 years of floppy/CD/DVD cover disks of free useless crapware or at best crippleware. An attitude reinforced by the crapware loaded on the hard disk by PC manufactures. So for people thinking about an existing PC, it's a non-issue. They already have a copy of an O/S and continuing to use that is free in the money sense. The no money issue only applies if people were thinking of changing to Vista [1] or thinking of getting a new PC [2] It also applies to the existing installed base that needs to subscribe to an anti-virus application or two just to keep their system running on a day to day basis. Switch to OSS/FS and this type of problem disappears Note 1: I suspect that another few months of horror stories about people who try to upgrade from XP to Vista will stop people wanting to do that. Note 2: Oh for a UK household name manufacturer who could ship Ubuntu. See other thread(s) about why we need to keep the pressure on Dell to offer this in the UK as well as the States AND why we need to make D*mned sure that the price of a PC with Ubuntu is less than the price of a PC with Vista. The problem with saying free and meaning freedom is that you then have to explain the difference. There are two issues that arise with this: Firstly, some people get put off and think that you're deliberately misusing words, and all the other things that _I_ get accused of :-) Secondly, most people aren't programmers, and therefore don't understand (short of a long conversation) why freedom to modify source code is overall good for them EVEN IF THEY THEMSELVES NEVER DO IT. Most people think I'm not a programmer, I'm never going to change the code, so it's of no benefit to me rather than Because lots of programmers can see what's really going on, the total community of skilled people available to fix bugs and add new features is far bigger than any single company, even one as big as Microsoft, could ever afford. Personally, I always like tables that say When should you use X, when should you use Y that deliberately come up with circumstances when using a competitor's product is better - they come over as honest (even if they are always self serving.)... and you also make the reasons to use the competitor sound very niche. Why Linux? - It's stable - most of the world's web servers and email servers run Linux because it crashes much, much less. Good point, but not exactly germane to individuals/SOHO/SMBs - It's more secure - Linux was developed with a sophsticated security model from the ground
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets
On 5/4/07, Mark Harrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ian Pascoe wrote: One question that's been missed off all of this valuable discussions is: Why should I try this Linux thingy? PROLOGUE - I'm going to be contentious. I ought to explain that TheVeech and I exchanged emails offlist last night, in which we agreed that a bit of violent discussion would both lead to a better result than any individual could come up with AND hopefully spark contributions from people who have sat on the sidelines. BTW - if you want to carry on sitting on the sidelines and just reading, that's absolutely fine with me. However, I do find that many more people say nothing because they (wrongly) don't believe that they know enough than say things when they they are actually misunderstanding the issues. We generally get to better answers if more people join in. On that basis, if you all join in to tell me I'm wrong in what I'm writing below - that's FANTASTIC - it's the kind of thing I can use to improve my understanding and arguments in the future. MAIN ACT - I don't like free as a selling point unless I'm talking to someone where I know I have a minimum of 5 minutes to run through the issue. Free works very well in a longer format, like the recent BBC radio programme mentioned on the list a week or so ago. Free means to me no cost and I repeat my reasons for abandoning Apple mac: Ubuntu is reliable, free and friendly. Much of the expansion of Ubuntu will be where the threat offutu cost matters. Other more exotic meanings of free are swept up in the concepts of reliable and friendly. Home computer owners appreciate these 3 reaons more easily than corporate bodies. However, in a moment of truth, one of the hardest problems to overcome is what happens to potential users when you mention the word free, and most people will make a snap decision inside a ludicrously short period of time, rather than bothering to listen to the arguments. When most people hear the free word, they think zero cost: So for people thinking about an existing PC, it's a non-issue. They already have a copy of an O/S and continuing to use that is free in the money sense. The no money issue only applies if people were thinking of changing to Vista [1] or thinking of getting a new PC [2] Note 1: I suspect that another few months of horror stories about people who try to upgrade from XP to Vista will stop people wanting to do that. Note 2: Oh for a UK household name manufacturer who could ship Ubuntu. See other thread(s) about why we need to keep the pressure on Dell to offer this in the UK as well as the States AND why we need to make D*mned sure that the price of a PC with Ubuntu is less than the price of a PC with Vista. The problem with saying free and meaning freedom is that you then have to explain the difference. There are two issues that arise with this: Firstly, some people get put off and think that you're deliberately misusing words, and all the other things that _I_ get accused of :-) Secondly, most people aren't programmers, and therefore don't understand (short of a long conversation) why freedom to modify source code is overall good for them EVEN IF THEY THEMSELVES NEVER DO IT. Most people think I'm not a programmer, I'm never going to change the code, so it's of no benefit to me rather than Because lots of programmers can see what's really going on, the total community of skilled people available to fix bugs and add new features is far bigger than any single company, even one as big as Microsoft, could ever afford. Personally, I always like tables that say When should you use X, when should you use Y that deliberately come up with circumstances when using a competitor's product is better - they come over as honest (even if they are always self serving.)... and you also make the reasons to use the competitor sound very niche. Why Linux? - It's stable - most of the world's web servers and email servers run Linux because it crashes much, much less. - It's more secure - Linux was developed with a sophsticated security model from the ground up, and Ubuntu applies a set of defaults that mean that, even if a user clicks on a virus by mistake, they won't make it infect the PC. (As an aside, most viruses are written to only work on Windows - because it's a lot easier to write a virus that attacks Windows.) - There are a huge number of applications specifically designed to work together. In the Windows world it's very easy for a programmer to write one program that accidently causes another program to stop working. On Linux, because of the way that the code used to write programs is almost always available, it's very, very hard for a program to have these problems. Indeed, one of the things the Ubuntu community does is specifically check that things won't interfere with each other before they are included in a distribution. Why Windows? - At the moment, more PC vendors ship machines with Windows pre-installed than have
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets
On 5/4/07, Jim Kissel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mark Harrison wrote: Ian Pascoe wrote: One question that's been missed off all of this valuable discussions is: Why should I try this Linux thingy? PROLOGUE - I'm going to be contentious. I ought to explain that TheVeech and I exchanged emails offlist last night, in which we agreed that a bit of violent discussion would both lead to a better result than any individual could come up with AND hopefully spark contributions from people who have sat on the sidelines. BTW - if you want to carry on sitting on the sidelines and just reading, that's absolutely fine with me. However, I do find that many more people say nothing because they (wrongly) don't believe that they know enough than say things when they they are actually misunderstanding the issues. We generally get to better answers if more people join in. On that basis, if you all join in to tell me I'm wrong in what I'm writing below - that's FANTASTIC - it's the kind of thing I can use to improve my understanding and arguments in the future. MAIN ACT - I don't like free as a selling point unless I'm talking to someone where I know I have a minimum of 5 minutes to run through the issue. Let's get the free as in gratis our of the way quickly. The cost of acquisition of OSS/FS software is near zero. You can download it if you have sufficient bandwidth (which you pay for) or you can purchase an inexpensive CD/DVD, or you can buy a boxed set which may/may not come with a manual. In all cases your cost of acquisition should be less than 100 GBP. Note: Some Enterprise versions cost much more, but you are purchasing multi-year support and that costs. You want 7x24 support, you've got to pay for it. Free works very well in a longer format, like the recent BBC radio programme mentioned on the list a week or so ago. However, in a moment of truth, one of the hardest problems to overcome is what happens to potential users when you mention the word free, and most people will make a snap decision inside a ludicrously short period of time, rather than bothering to listen to the arguments. When most people hear the free word, they think zero cost: Since we are pouring petrol on the fire, here is another take on what most people think when they here free. Free == Crap An attitude nurtured by PC World/PC Pro/PC Format.'et al' and 25 years of floppy/CD/DVD cover disks of free useless crapware or at best crippleware. An attitude reinforced by the crapware loaded on the hard disk by PC manufactures. So for people thinking about an existing PC, it's a non-issue. They already have a copy of an O/S and continuing to use that is free in the money sense. The no money issue only applies if people were thinking of changing to Vista [1] or thinking of getting a new PC [2] It also applies to the existing installed base that needs to subscribe to an anti-virus application or two just to keep their system running on a day to day basis. Switch to OSS/FS and this type of problem disappears Note 1: I suspect that another few months of horror stories about people who try to upgrade from XP to Vista will stop people wanting to do that. Note 2: Oh for a UK household name manufacturer who could ship Ubuntu. See other thread(s) about why we need to keep the pressure on Dell to offer this in the UK as well as the States AND why we need to make D*mned sure that the price of a PC with Ubuntu is less than the price of a PC with Vista. The problem with saying free and meaning freedom is that you then have to explain the difference. There are two issues that arise with this: Firstly, some people get put off and think that you're deliberately misusing words, and all the other things that _I_ get accused of :-) Secondly, most people aren't programmers, and therefore don't understand (short of a long conversation) why freedom to modify source code is overall good for them EVEN IF THEY THEMSELVES NEVER DO IT. Most people think I'm not a programmer, I'm never going to change the code, so it's of no benefit to me rather than Because lots of programmers can see what's really going on, the total community of skilled people available to fix bugs and add new features is far bigger than any single company, even one as big as Microsoft, could ever afford. Personally, I always like tables that say When should you use X, when should you use Y that deliberately come up with circumstances when using a competitor's product is better - they come over as honest (even if they are always self serving.)... and you also make the reasons to use the competitor sound very niche. Why Linux? - It's stable - most of the world's web servers and email servers run Linux because it crashes much, much less. Good point, but not exactly germane to individuals/SOHO/SMBs - It's more secure - Linux was developed with a sophsticated security model from the ground up, and Ubuntu applies a
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets
I am one of those who has sat on the sidelines and read what many of you have had to say. I have used Ubuntu for nearly 3 years now and most, if not all, of the arguments put forward have been well rehearsed since the first version of Ubuntu became available. There was an attempt to compare the requirements of desktop users with both windows and Ubuntu and, if my memory is correct, were the subject of a wiki and should be in the Ubuntu archives somewhere. Why did I change from windows? My son, who worked for Canonical at that time, persuaded me to give Ubuntu a try and, being of an adventurous nature, I agreed. There were problems and limitations and, without his help, I would probably have reverted to windows. Now, I think I can do all I want to do on a day to day basis but, occasionally, I have a problem like now. I want to buy a new laser printer and I cannot just go out and buy anything I fancy. I have to make sure it will work with Ubuntu. This would not apply to a windows user. What if I want a new scanner, the same thing applies. I am sure there must be other examples. That will do for now except to say have a look at the archives you may not have to re-invent the wheel. Norman -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
[ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu Mobile
Hmmm, this is interesting. Looks like Canonical has plans for Ubuntu on mobile devices http://www.ubuntu.com/employment#UMDEV Chris -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
[ubuntu-uk] Feisty default package list
I can't seem to find a list of packages installed by default on Feisty. Could someone point me at one? Regards, Michael Erskine. -- And on the eighth day, we bulldozed it. ___ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets
On Friday 04 May 2007 13:17:21 James Tait wrote: I've documented the required process for both on LiveJournal (I can find links if anyone's interested), but it boils down to this: when you first connect your computer to the cable modem, you should get a private IP address via DHCP. You need to register your MAC address (along with your account number and PIN I think), which is done via a web interface. Then you'll be told to reboot your computer, after which you get a public IP address via DHCP. One thing to note here, and I only mention it because your post has reminded me, MAC address changes don't seem to matter: I have quite happily changed routers connected to my cable modem without any need to contact NTL. Regards, Michael Erskine. -- Schmidt's Observation: All things being equal, a fat person uses more soap than a thin person. ___ Try the all-new Yahoo! Mail. The New Version is radically easier to use The Wall Street Journal http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets
Personally, I think there's something that everyone needs to do before
they start talking up Linux.
MS has a huge marketing warchest and it's marketing has been highly
influential. We can talk to people till we're orange and brown in the
face but, once they leave the conversation, they're vulnerable to blind
Linux critics who know little but influence a lot. To most people,
Linux is a world away from where they are, but we can't bridge the gap
if the people and organisations who thrive on it aren't thought of in
context - substantially - but without the excesses of zealotry.
Even though we might be aware of the situation, to cope with MS's
misinformation on others, I think we need to educate people about it,
make them feel like they've been maltreated, and why MS has felt it has
had to do this. I.e., no talk of 'evil empires' (doesn't everyone
eventually grow out of that?), but a calm consideration of MS's business
model, along with plenty of talk about origins, aims and necessity.
What gave birth to MS? Why did Microsoft target, and think it needed to
target, users for misinformation? When people pronounce that Linux is
crap, they need to be tackled in a way that makes them realise that
they've been treated as a pretty minor element in the food chain, with
scant regard for their credibility in the company of those who are
better informed. If you then need to address the specifics, how many
specific facts do we need that our software's better?
The problem with these people isn't that they're any more stupid that
anyone else - I don't think anyone could seriously say that they've
never been influenced by propaganda. It's that they're not aware enough
of it to see that it's a trick that restricts them that they don't have
to put up with.
Like pretty much anything, I think we've got to be prepared for
irrationality, especially with people who see no compelling reason to
look at alternatives they have little knowledge of to start with. Most
people are 'stuck' with Windows 'because'.
But irrationality isn't something we're immune to. I agree with Mark's
scepticism about 'free'. I'd be interested - and this applies to
everyone - in research into what British people really think about such
concepts, beyond what we hope we think (we might be better at adapting
our messages if we knew this).
Even though I'm not anti-marketing, it's a bit ironic that we're talking
about enlightening people through the very discipline that sought to
establish an irrational link between quality and cost, so that in a
superficial cost argument 'free' can still too easily be associated with
inferiority or secrecy ('no such thing as a free lunch'). I'm not
anti-marketing because I think it can help with the antidote.
With 'freedom', though, there's just as much irrationality. Some people
who make substantial claims to favour it aren't even aware that such
claims run counter to what they're really like as people, suggesting
that their passion for OSS isn't as reliable as it seems. A Linux-using
guy I know is paranoid that his girlfriend is always having oral sex
with just about everyone (and I've had to endure the 'evidence'), so he
gets over-protective when there's a male around. I sat in his house the
other day, with his girlfriend there, and he was getting increasingly
insecure (especially when I started flirting with her because he was
just getting on my nerves). Then the conversation got to installing a
different version of Linux on her laptop.
Nothing I could do in terms of a logical argument, though, without
getting kicked out of the house. The choice is between Ubuntu and
Slackware. Logically, Ubuntu 7.04 is the better choice for her because
she's a novice and could do with, IMHO, the most usable release there's
been, backed up with a brilliant community that's all too willing to
help people like her make the most of the experience. Psychologically,
though, Slackware is the solution to flashbacks that never were, and
mustn't be. Result: Slackware.
In the past, I'd easily persuaded them to install a previous version of
Ubuntu, primarily for usability. But, now the paranoia's crept in to
become a big part of the relationship, this isn't any longer a rational
decision - it's a power one. I couldn't ask her what she wanted because
of the position this would have put her in and I don't think she really
gives a toss. He couldn't ask her, because he's trying to be a man. No
matter what the technical arguments are, it's got nothing to do with the
distro, so arguing about this was a waste of time. The choice is merely
a means by which he can position himself as the provider by using
information and power to sustain and increase dependence. Remember
those cavemen clubbing women? It's a bit like that.
This guy uses Linux because of its geek chic - the quality of the OS is
incidental. If geeks were singing Windows, it's back to Bill.
Regardless of the arguments he's put about 'free' this and that, he's
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets
The ntl service provided by the Set Top Box (i.e. using the Ethernet port in the STB) required that MAC addresses be registered. The ntl service provided using a separate, external cable modem did not. Dom Michael Erskine wrote: On Friday 04 May 2007 13:17:21 James Tait wrote: I've documented the required process for both on LiveJournal (I can find links if anyone's interested), but it boils down to this: when you first connect your computer to the cable modem, you should get a private IP address via DHCP. You need to register your MAC address (along with your account number and PIN I think), which is done via a web interface. Then you'll be told to reboot your computer, after which you get a public IP address via DHCP. One thing to note here, and I only mention it because your post has reminded me, MAC address changes don't seem to matter: I have quite happily changed routers connected to my cable modem without any need to contact NTL. Regards, Michael Erskine. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets
On 04/05/07, Dominic Forrest [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The ntl service provided by the Set Top Box (i.e. using the Ethernet port in the STB) required that MAC addresses be registered. The ntl service provided using a separate, external cable modem did not. Dom Michael Erskine wrote: On Friday 04 May 2007 13:17:21 James Tait wrote: I've documented the required process for both on LiveJournal (I can find links if anyone's interested), but it boils down to this: when you first connect your computer to the cable modem, you should get a private IP address via DHCP. You need to register your MAC address (along with your account number and PIN I think), which is done via a web interface. Then you'll be told to reboot your computer, after which you get a public IP address via DHCP. One thing to note here, and I only mention it because your post has reminded me, MAC address changes don't seem to matter: I have quite happily changed routers connected to my cable modem without any need to contact NTL. Regards, Michael Erskine. No STB or external connection for NTL, Telewest or other has required an MAC registration now for over two years. If any person asks for this on a service call, please just remind them that this has not been required for a long time and if they need clarification to call QA for the company who will give them what they need to know. If anyone has any further issues, please email me and I will help resolve the issue directly. Regards Phil -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Feisty default package list
On Fri, 2007-05-04 at 14:56 +0100, Michael Erskine wrote: I can't seem to find a list of packages installed by default on Feisty. Could someone point me at one? It's ubuntu-minimal and ubuntu-desktop I think -- Alec Wright M: 07749884274 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Feisty default package list
On 04/05/07, Alec Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 2007-05-04 at 14:56 +0100, Michael Erskine wrote: I can't seem to find a list of packages installed by default on Feisty. Could someone point me at one? It's ubuntu-minimal and ubuntu-desktop I think -- Alec Wright M: 07749884274 Best thing to do is pull the ubuntu-desktop source and you will get a complete listing of the packages installed. There are the required packages and the recommended etc. with the recommended can be removed without hurting the base desktop install e.g. gome games etc. Regards Phil -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets
Mark Harrison wrote: Jim, You make a lot of good points. 1: Your list of extra applications that users want that I'd not come up with is excellent, and I'd certainly want to include it. 2: Your observations about the ongoing licencing cost of carrying on with the copy of Windows you already have doesn't take into account Anti-Virus and other subscriptions is a DAMNED GOOD ONE, and gives me a fantastically better answer to the so what if it's free - I've already got Windows argument when talking about as in pizza. BTW, I know that pizza isn't the traditional one here, but I don't drink beer, and the phrase free, as in red wine just doesn't translate :-) I want to further explain myself in a couple of areas, and disagree with you on one :-) 1: The logic of the linux is stable... most of the www and email servers use it was not intended to imply These people use it, and they have needs similar to yours... Instead it was meant to imply The kind of people who REALLY care about their machines not crashing choose Linux, and because Linux is build to this level of reliability, then it's certainly going to be reliable enough for your needs. 2: The NTL problem is specific to some regions. NTL have grown not by rolling out a standard system, but by buying up legacy local cable companies. As a result of this, there is a mismash of odd cable broadband solutions out there under the NTL brand. (This is why I wrote ...in some areas.) In some areas, for example Clanfield (just north of Porstmouth), a friend of mine had exactly this problem. The broadband solution was two-box - a set-top-box that was provided, and a specific USB network card, that came with Windows software that registered as a one-off, the MAC address of the NTL card with a particular subscriber. Looking back, I was trying to set up a router as well as a Linux box, and in the end the only way we could get it to work was to firstly register the MAC address in Windows, then go into the router's config and use MAC address spoofing to make it look as if it was the USB thing that NTL had supplied, then set up the linux box via the router. This is why I said something that boiled down to that you may need a local expert to set this kind of thing up. Had it been a single PC running Windows, it all worked out of the box. 3: I want to disagree with you on one thing you pulled me up for. And it's a taken in context disagreement rather than an absolute disagreement... I wrote: Ubuntu applies a set of defaults that mean that, even if a user clicks on a virus by mistake, they won't make it infect the PC. You responded: Don't just single out Ubuntu for praise. All *nix's share these attributes. Firstly: We're in the middle of a thread about Marketing on the Ubuntu-UK mailing list :-) I make no apology for promoting Ubuntu generally, but specially not on this particular list :-) Apologies. I forgot that the thread was Ubuntu. Secondly: It is, alas, not true that all *nix's share these attributes. There have been well-publicised examples of Linux distributions where the ONLY user account created was root, and that all applications the user ran ran as root. I agree it doesn't apply to Debian / Suse / Gentoo / Fedora / [insert your favourite here], but the point behind this is that the security model is only as secure as its set of default choices. I wanted to allude to the fact that in choosing Linux, the average user is in fact choosing a specific distribution, and wanted to play up (as I did again later about applications working together) Ubuntu as a good choice :-) Regards, Mark -- Simple effective migration to Open Source based computing Jim Kissel Open Source Migrations Limited w: http://www.osml.eu e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] p: +44(0) 8703 301044 m: +44(0) 7976 411 679 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets
One thing to note here, and I only mention it because your post has reminded me, MAC address changes don't seem to matter: I have quite happily changed routers connected to my cable modem without any need to contact NTL. The NTL registration only covers registering the modems MAC address against your account., it doesn't touch the MAC address of your PC's network card Dave Neil UK Disclaimer (@uk.ey.com) The information contained in this communication is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and others authorized to receive it. It may contain confidential or legally privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by responding to this email and then delete it from your system. Ernst Young is neither liable for the proper and complete transmission of the information contained in this communication nor for any delay in its receipt. This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC31 and is a member practice of Ernst Young Global. A list of members' names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm's principal place of business and its registered office. Ernst Young is proud to sponsor the Renoir Landscapes exhibition at the National Gallery (21 February to the 20 May 2007), the first major show in the UK devoted to the artist in more than twenty years. We are delighted to continue our long term commitment to the arts. Advance booking is recommended: http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/exhibitions/renoirlandscapes -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Leaflets
On 04/05/07, David Neil [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One thing to note here, and I only mention it because your post has reminded me, MAC address changes don't seem to matter: I have quite happily changed routers connected to my cable modem without any need to contact NTL. The NTL registration only covers registering the modems MAC address against your account., it doesn't touch the MAC address of your PC's network card Dave Neil Even cable modem MAC addresses against your account haven't mattered for a long long time. Regards Phil -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] FW: Leaflets
On Fri, 2007-05-04 at 21:03 +0100, Ian Pascoe wrote: OK, we've had lots of ideas and some quite warm debate, and a secret need to find out about the Veeches mate's girl friend (!) You ARE going to get me into trouble! but what and where do we go from here? Or is there still plenty to mull over? More personal experiences in different contexts? Keep thinking about the debate, for sure. Something personal I've noticed recently is that I've become more focused on freedom issues generally - i.e. beyond computing, even though I'm a hypocrite since I use restricted formats. But it's different experiences openly stated and willingly accepted for peer review where I think we can learn a lot, as well as some science, to add to the enthusiastic views of a small number of people. My earlier post, for example, was just applying knowledge to Linux that's been around elsewhere for decades. One of the strengths of this list, unlike a lot of forums, is that contradictory views are almost always welcomed and seen as a contribution rather than a slight. That means that the debates are often of a higher quality because people don't default to ego wars, territoriality is at a minimum, and it seems that people at least try to find answers that contribute something constructive. I think that the more we all hear from new people from different backgrounds, the bigger the stock of knowledge and interpretations we'll have available to consult. So, yes, I think there's plenty to mull over. But we need to hear from new people, too! BTW: Welcome! Just don't try to get me into trouble :o -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
