Re: [ubuntu-uk] Capitalising on XP's demise
On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 4:07 PM, Lucy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 25/03/2008, Paul Mellors [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This type of stuff really gets on my tits, no offence Josh :) But stop fricking MS bashing, if you don't want to use MS products don't, but there are people out there that do so let em. You make a good point in that we should be careful not to insult MS and their products when promoting Ubuntu, but Josh didn't actually insult them and I don't think that was the aim of his post. Most people don't know they have an option other than Windows and IME have been very happy to discover an alternative. Josh: I think it's a great idea, if targeted at the right people in the right way. I'm not sure how much influence my MP has, but it would be great if I could get him to try Ubuntu! I don't know who else it would be worth trying to target though? I don't really know of any local organisations in my area. It would be great if we could tie this into the Hardy release, as that's very close to the June deadline. Does anyone have any specific suggestions as to how we would do this? I set up the ubuntu-uk marketing team on launchpad a while ago https://launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-uk-marketing with the aim of gathering together interested people. We came up with some brochures and leaflets but didn't really manage to distribute them. We also wrote a magazine article which people could circulate to local/free newspapers. The article is there but I don't think that people really bothered to try circulate it. So I guess that's the problem. People are interested in helping out up to a point, but when it comes to the crunch it's hard to get people involved in promotion How can we address this and what should we do better? Chris -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Capitalising on XP's demise
Sorry, links to the resources! Wiki page - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKMarketing/ Magazine article - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKMarketing/ArticleForLocalMagazine1 Leaflets - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKMarketing/Leaflets -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Capitalising on XP's demise
On Tue, 2008-03-25 at 15:44 +, Josh Blacker wrote: Hi everyone, As you may or may not be aware, XP will no longer be sold quite soon - you won't be able to buy an XP computer after June, and retail copies won't be sold after next January [1], meaning Vista is the 'only' choice for new computers. This is, I think, something we should try and capitalise on, since there has been something of a reaction to Vista that's not quite a backlash but certainly apprehension, with negative perceptions in the public eye. I agree that this is a great opportunity - I switched to Ubuntu 18 months ago, and my reason for switching was simple. My PC is about five years old, and won't run Vista. I can't afford to get a Vista-ready machine, especially as I don't need one; I only do fairly basic things like word-processing, email, browsing, etc. But I also have 3 teens in education, who expect to be able to use a PC for college work, and who don't want to go to the library to do it. I think these are the some of people we should be targeting - people who can't afford the cutting edge equipment, such as students, pensioners who want to keep in touch with families, families who have low incomes but have children in education. Those are the people I hope to reach with the demo day, as that's the sort of area I live in. But how to do it is another question .. Dianne -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Capitalising on XP's demise
Paul Mellors wrote: On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 15:44:48 + Josh Blacker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi everyone, [[bigsnip]] Anyway, I just thought I'd put this out there for the list to think about. Any feedback/suggestions/discussion would of course be appreciated. All the best, Josh [1] http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasicarticleId=9070119pageNumber=1 [2] http://crunchbang.org/archives/2008/01/25/random-ubuntu-advocacy/ This type of stuff really gets on my tits, no offence Josh :) But stop fricking MS bashing, if you don't want to use MS products don't, but there are people out there that do so let em. +1 -- People choose Microsoft Windows for their PC in the same manner that the citizens of Soviet Russia elected the General Secretary of the Communist Party during the cold war. Jim Kissel -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] 32-bit chroot on Hardy
John Pham wrote: Rob Beard wrote: I just wondered if anyone had sucessfully got a 32-bit chroot working? I've just posted a howto here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=733595 after successfully setting mine up. Thanks John, I'll take a look. I kind of gave up in the end, but I'll revisit it when I have some time. Rob -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Persuading a school to switch
On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 5:04 PM, Craig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Obviously this is still in early stages, I was just wondering if this is something that anyone would possibly be interested in doing so I could negotiate further. Otherwise, any ideas on ways to persuade a school to switch to ubuntu? James Grabham wrote: Its got nothing to do with the school, it will be up to the LEA unfortunately. James I don't think that's right: schools make their own decisions these days. And there's actually no such thing as Local Education Authorities any more (those ceased to exist as legal entities a couple of years ago). So Craig may have some success just in his own school. Let's hope so! Craig Welcome! I think your wish to do something for software freedom for your school and its students is admirable. It'll take some hard work; and you'll need to be prepared to persevere despite set backs and lack of interest. You're going to have to persuade your head of IT, who'll need to sell the idea of a switch to free software to the head teacher and senior management team. You might start by getting your mates interested in Ubuntu, and doing things with their own computers that you can all show off to your IT teachers. And you might then try letting your teachers know that BECTA recommends schools to consider free software seriously: http://www.computerworlduk.com/community/blogs/index.cfm?RSSentryid=616 and http://publications.becta.org.uk/display.cfm?resID=35275page=1835 (especially paragraphs 6:15 and 6:17) Very best wishes for the success of your efforts. But remember the main thing first of all is for you to have fun getting really good at using Ubuntu! Mac -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Capitalising on XP's demise
On 2008-03-25, Paul Mellors wrote: - Writing to relevant MPs, councillors, and so on - people who are in a position to influence decision making where public sector corporate IT infrastructure is involved, who will at some point have to 'replace' those XP boxes, explaining to them the benefits (not least that they wouldn't actually have to change their hardware to migrate to Ubuntu!). The danger I see here is that we could stray into FUD territory, which would be slightly ironic and not at all helpful. Anyway, I just thought I'd put this out there for the list to think about. Any feedback/suggestions/discussion would of course be appreciated. [1] http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasicarticleId=9070119pageNumber=1 [2] http://crunchbang.org/archives/2008/01/25/random-ubuntu-advocacy/ This type of stuff really gets on my tits, no offence Josh :) But stop fricking MS bashing, if you don't want to use MS products don't, but there are people out there that do so let em. Let them buy MS at our expense, and to our detriment when we want open document formats (for example)? -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Capitalising on XP's demise
A lot to reply to - will do my best! I'm glad this has sparked interest and debate. Hopefully my inline replies will make sense... On Tue, 2008-03-25 at 16:17 +, andy wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Lucy wrote: On 25/03/2008, Paul Mellors [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This type of stuff really gets on my tits, no offence Josh :) But stop fricking MS bashing, if you don't want to use MS products don't, but there are people out there that do so let em. You make a good point in that we should be careful not to insult MS and their products when promoting Ubuntu, but Josh didn't actually insult them and I don't think that was the aim of his post. Most people don't know they have an option other than Windows and IME have been very happy to discover an alternative. Yes - although there is a danger of MS-bashing, I think it should be avoided as far as possible (obviously flaws need to be pointed out, or what's the point?). I don't know how many of you have seen Apple's anti-Vista web ads (I've only seen them via YouTube, thanks to AdBlock), but I think they do the job pretty well. Of course, they can't just be copied with Ubuntu in place of Leopard. We can't avoid pointing out the flaws, and being at least vaguely anti-Microsoft. At the moment there is a lack of awareness about Ubuntu and GNU/Linux in general, and we should be pushing the choice aspect. If you're fed up with Windows/scared of Vista/too cheap for a Mac, try Ubuntu doesn't strike me as a particularly damaging statement to make. The end of XP just seems a good place to raise this issue. Josh: I think it's a great idea, if targeted at the right people in the right way. I'm not sure how much influence my MP has, but it would be great if I could get him to try Ubuntu! I don't know who else it would be worth trying to target though? I don't really know of any local organisations in my area. Again, it's a case of raising awareness. Ubuntu is cheaper *and* better, should be the message. (Cheaper over free, because it doesn't sound tacky, and also factors in potential support costs from Canonical etc should it be needed). It would be great if we could tie this into the Hardy release, as that's very close to the June deadline. Yes, especially as it's an LTS. Targeting MS directly will only serve to create counter-FUD - and MS has a more powerful marketing machine that ubuntu. ($$$) Agreed - anything we can do, they can do better - but they can't change the facts. More secure? Yes. Needs new hardware? No. I think the focus should be on 'PC' and laptop instead. The most important thing is to get a big marketing drive on - that also needs to be unilateral. Coverage of non-geeky projects like the Ingots will give ubuntu karma in the business and professional world. Yes, agreed - my initial idea wasn't to target MS but to pose an alternative *to* MS, in the wake of XP ending and the Vista debacle. An alternative use for your old hardware, an alternative to shelling out. MS is the main competitor rather than Apple, IMO. Ubuntu needs to be made easy for people to try out. We've not got the marketing $$$ that so many companies rely on to push their software. Our product placement in 'first life' is poor. If I were to go into a PC World, the chances of me coming out with ubuntu are nil. I don't know how many people buy their PCs from there, but it's a household brand. True again - if only Canonical could work to getting a supplier (e.g. Dell) into PC World and the like, it would be easier. I suppose we need to `create' demand. There are many good people already advocating the use of ubuntu. However, as Alan Pope said on the ubuntu uk podcast (S01E02), we're all geeks here. If you're on a mailing list, or on IRC, you're a geek. We need to break out and get non-geeks involved in spreading the message of ubuntu UK - without them necessarily being aware of an ubuntu UK group at all. We're all converting our friends and family (and some of us converting strangers) - but we need friends to be converting friends, and strangers to be converting strangers. Thankfully, Ubuntu isn't the geekiest of distros, and flamebait looking more and more ready for the mainstream with every release /flamebait. Converting people isn't easy, in my short experience, but I think it would probably be easier if awareness were raised - so you don't have to spend the first hour explaining all about Ubuntu. Conclusion: My apologies for possibly not being as clear in my original post as I should have been; the focus should, I think, be on marketing an alternative (as many have agreed). It's probably just my own shrewd cynicism (tying it into the end of XP) that's caused the confusion, but I just noticed a handy opening for us (Ubuntu) to get some more of the limelight. The next step, of course, is to think of ways to raise that awareness. All the best, Josh --
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Persuading a school to switch
On Tue, 2008-03-25 at 20:00 +, Mac wrote: On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 5:04 PM, Craig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Obviously this is still in early stages, I was just wondering if this is something that anyone would possibly be interested in doing so I could negotiate further. Otherwise, any ideas on ways to persuade a school to switch to ubuntu? James Grabham wrote: Its got nothing to do with the school, it will be up to the LEA unfortunately. James I don't think that's right: schools make their own decisions these days. And there's actually no such thing as Local Education Authorities any more (those ceased to exist as legal entities a couple of years ago). So Craig may have some success just in his own school. Let's hope so! Craig Welcome! I think your wish to do something for software freedom for your school and its students is admirable. It'll take some hard work; and you'll need to be prepared to persevere despite set backs and lack of interest. You're going to have to persuade your head of IT, who'll need to sell the idea of a switch to free software to the head teacher and senior management team. That could be interesting. Although I am actually not too sure who the head of ICT is, if it's who I think it is I think she is pretty adamant I am some malicious hacker intent on messing up the school network with viruses. Then again, she might have got over it, and she probably isn't head of IT. You might start by getting your mates interested in Ubuntu, and doing things with their own computers that you can all show off to your IT teachers. I can assure you I have done those - I even managed to get my Mac friend to give ubuntu a go. I was absolutely amazed when he came in the next day, reluctantly admitting that ubuntu wasn't all that bad! I have two others as well, one in the process of getting a new laptop, leaving the old one free for ubuntu, the other still 'negotiating' with his Dad. And you might then try letting your teachers know that BECTA recommends schools to consider free software seriously: http://www.computerworlduk.com/community/blogs/index.cfm?RSSentryid=616 and http://publications.becta.org.uk/display.cfm?resID=35275page=1835 (especially paragraphs 6:15 and 6:17) Very best wishes for the success of your efforts. But remember the main thing first of all is for you to have fun getting really good at using Ubuntu! Mac Thanks for the help and advice! Craig -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Persuading a school to switch
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Mac wrote: | James Grabham wrote: | Its got nothing to do with the school, it will be up to the LEA | unfortunately. | | James I don't think that's right: schools make their own decisions | these days. And there's actually no such thing as Local Education | Authorities any more (those ceased to exist as legal entities a couple | of years ago). So Craig may have some success just in his own school. | Let's hope so! LEAs are now known as LAs - Local Authorities, but they're basically the ~ same thing as far as I know. What seems to be happening more and more is that the LA will assess and collectively bargain (put out to tender) with companies for provision of products and services. Schools then have the option to use or not to use them. However, the schools face problems if they decide not to - lots of paperwork, political friction with the LA etc etc - so they must really want to stray from LA policy. Tenders are the wheels of things like BSF (Building Schools for the Future) projects etc. And, as others have mentioned, whatever you implement locally will need to be compatible with the LAs own systems. You may have success in getting Linux adopted on for the VLE, but then you've got all the desktops, various other bits of MS encumbered software, admin systems (SIMS, CMIS etc)... If your network manager is skillful then she'll be able to get Linux on the desktops without needing to change the network infrastructure which will almost certainly comprise of ISA server and Active Directory. Good luck! The company I work for sells into schools and I am very frustrated that we sell more and more MS into them all the time. - -- Stephen O'Neill w: http://www.thefloatingfrog.co.uk/ e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH6W5TJ+Auntu1v4QRAm2ZAJoDmkUBPQ2sn4xYRvtYxlTatJf/fQCfcnht mDKfBgDLPtZNUOuynvMlQYE= =kwqG -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Persuading a school to switch
Skegness Grammar use Linux - you can find their IT department case study of the advantages here: http://www.schoolforge.org.uk/index.php/Skegness_Grammar Dianne On Tue, 2008-03-25 at 17:04 +, Craig wrote: Hello everyone, I have been an Ubuntu user for not very long (since around October) and have been amazed at the stability, compatibility and usability amongst many other things. I think it really shows what a community can do if they pull together - they can develop an operating system that (in my biased opinion) is better than that of a multi-billion pound company. I am 13 and go to Court Moor School in Hampshire. The school is very keen on getting the latest technology - virtual learning environments, computerised registration etc. Currently I am persuading various people around the school to switch to ubuntu. I have found quite a few people who would be interested in having someone who really knows what they're talking about to show them some of the features and the security they could use and some of the things included in edubuntu. Obviously this is still in early stages, I was just wondering if this is something that anyone would possibly be interested in doing so I could negotiate further. Otherwise, any ideas on ways to persuade a school to switch to ubuntu? Craig. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Persuading a school to switch
Skegness. Grammar School... eh... XD On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 9:30 PM, Dianne Reuby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Skegness Grammar use Linux - you can find their IT department case study of the advantages here: http://www.schoolforge.org.uk/index.php/Skegness_Grammar Dianne On Tue, 2008-03-25 at 17:04 +, Craig wrote: Hello everyone, I have been an Ubuntu user for not very long (since around October) and have been amazed at the stability, compatibility and usability amongst many other things. I think it really shows what a community can do if they pull together - they can develop an operating system that (in my biased opinion) is better than that of a multi-billion pound company. I am 13 and go to Court Moor School in Hampshire. The school is very keen on getting the latest technology - virtual learning environments, computerised registration etc. Currently I am persuading various people around the school to switch to ubuntu. I have found quite a few people who would be interested in having someone who really knows what they're talking about to show them some of the features and the security they could use and some of the things included in edubuntu. Obviously this is still in early stages, I was just wondering if this is something that anyone would possibly be interested in doing so I could negotiate further. Otherwise, any ideas on ways to persuade a school to switch to ubuntu? Craig. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ -- Mr JE Grabham -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Persuading a school to switch
Stephen O'Neill wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Mac wrote: | James Grabham wrote: | Its got nothing to do with the school, it will be up to the LEA | unfortunately. | | James I don't think that's right: schools make their own decisions | these days. And there's actually no such thing as Local Education | Authorities any more (those ceased to exist as legal entities a couple | of years ago). So Craig may have some success just in his own school. | Let's hope so! LEAs are now known as LAs - Local Authorities, but they're basically the ~ same thing as far as I know. Briefly, and at the risk of straying off topic, the parts of Local Authorities that used to be called the Local Education Authority have been merged with what used to be children's social services into entities called Children's Services Authorities whose remit goes way beyond education, in respect of which the main functions have become on the one hand strategic and on the other inspectorial (mainly through oversight of School Improvement Partners who work directly with schools on school's own development agendas). Schools, under the government's New Relationship with Schools policies, are very much their own masters, and manage their own budgets; though they may, if they wish, buy services offered by various parts of Local Authorities. But that's not Craig's main problem. The continuing difficulty for free software in education is the unquestioned acceptance that M$ software is the de-facto standard that employers will expect young people to use. At the highest level in IT in the Local Authority where I work (not in IT but in the education bit of Children's Services) the mere mention of Linux is immediately dismissed with ill-disguised derision. But that's the corporate organisation. Individual schools up and down the country are taking their own decisions about free software. Not many. But enough for the adventurous and far-sighted and those who care more about education than about shaping the labour market not to feel entirely alone. And the Vista debacle, the cost of upgrading hardware to run Vista and Office 2007, and the Danegeld schools must go on paying to Microsoft, are all factors that are starting to cause financial managers to challenge their IT colleagues to consider alternaives - as the BECTA report, too, enjoins them to do. Phew. End of rant. But my hope is with young men like Craig, who have a sense of the significance of Ubuntu and other free software at a time in their lives when not being told what to do - by teachers, parents, Bill Gates, or anyone else - matters enough for them to find ways of being their own people. More power to you, Craig! Mac -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Persuading a school to switch
Rob Beard wrote: The final thing I can think of is Moodle (which is included with Karoshi) which is a complete Virtual Learning Environment. It's free and runs on Ubuntu and most other flavours of Linux. I've had a bit of a play with it but not being an expert I'm not sure how well it would fit a schools needs, but as far as I know it is used in schools in this country and around the world. My old school use Moodle as a VLE with great success, other schools in the area paid quite a bit of cash for software which was not nearly as good as Moodle and they were all mostly in awe. It must be said it was running off the back of Win 2k server and IIS5. This is in a very much Microsoft institution, although we did make use of other OSS programmes but not as many as I wanted. Chris -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
