Re: [ubuntu-uk] 1 hour Meeting reminder

[Alan Bell]

alan c wrote:
>> 
>
> Alan thanks for the heads up, I was able to look in - very interesting.
>   

that is one way of putting it.

-- 
ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/

[ubuntu-uk] bedsLUG - Bedfordshire Linux User Group

[Joe O'Dell]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hey everyone,

I've set up a LUG for Bedfordshire and I would be grateful if any users on this 
list located in Bedfordshire could join!

It's currently a "register your interest" type of group, but as soon as we 
reach ~10-20 members, we will start holding meetings.

Currently, it's IRC only, but we do plan to have face-to-face meetings in the 
near future.

Here's the site:

bedsLUG - http://www.bedslug.co.cc

Many Thanks

Joe O'Dell
(ascenseur)

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.14 (Darwin)

iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJLU4y7AAoJEAzPR+1Bu/TJFaQIAKBwMt3BEY3j2no9MuSJPUye
s71+nZq2oK2Tqfkv1I0KRbv84iOEZ5b7ot7R+IhB+K5JCLlFE78cNrdxDYeIHyRh
XKaB61Xp0XGK/AZp8e9iTc6gWHfpEV6oj53Lkq+a8SfAWzXNXqH7CrFWmD+KR3fZ
EDSGlDDURoFZwIfHmh+VGjxP77Of8scv9/bcoEJku6U+K7QYCFVxwN9rP2fYBjpJ
NvocHATMNE15ROPCaNT0Rl2EVrPd02fbaXPwjOtbSwm4G0hqvCdh4fEabEqKhVmg
mMY4+EiPw+7wvNgT3KWRV8Bt4ClaY5fclFBKO+MnS052Nyci/1kVWROe+6j4mK4=
=Pd2c
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

-- 
ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/

Re: [ubuntu-uk] Possible Training Events

[etali]

On 17/01/2010 08:09, mac wrote:
> I wondered if an
> option to deal with this might be to offer a short series of evening class at 
> the local high school (many of which run 'recreational' evening
> classes), or approach the University of the Third Age or the Workers
> Educational Association to offer a short course.
>
>

When I investigated the possibility of running some classes at the local 
activity centre, they said that they required all teachers to have a 
qualification. I think it was the PTLLS (Preparing to teach in the 
lifelong learning sector).  They wanted this even for "Workshop" type 
courses that didn't offer any formal qualification at the end.

There are plenty of other venues to choose from, but it's a shame that 
the local council are being so funny about courses - from what little 
market research I did, it seems that the Adult Learning and Skills 
leaflets that the council insists of putting through our doors every few 
months are the main way that people in my area hear about free courses.

-- 
Lesley Harrison

-- 
ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/

Re: [ubuntu-uk] 1 hour Meeting reminder

[alan c]

Alan Bell wrote:
> just to remind you all that we have an Ubuntu-uk meeting on IRC channel
> #ubuntu-uk on the freenode network one hour from now at 7:30 this
> evening. You can normally join in a browser at
> http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=ubuntu-uk or using Empathy, Pidgin
> or another IRC client.
> The agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeamMeetingAgenda
> Minutes of the previous meeting are at
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/LastMeeting
> 
> see you there,
> 
> Alan.
> 

Alan thanks for the heads up, I was able to look in - very interesting.
-- 
alan cocks
Ubuntu user

-- 
ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/

Re: [ubuntu-uk] 1 hour Meeting reminder

[Paul Elliott]

Android IRC, I will be using it myself shortly.

Regards. Paul.

On Jan 17, 2010 6:43 PM, "Jonathon Fernyhough" 
wrote:

2010/1/17 Stephen Garton :

> Anyone know of an Irc app for Android? Am waiting for the RAC to come
rescue > me, so it's the onl...
AndChat. It's pretty good.

Jonathon

--

ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.c...
-- 
ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/

Re: [ubuntu-uk] 1 hour Meeting reminder

[Jonathon Fernyhough]

2010/1/17 Stephen Garton :
> Anyone know of an Irc app for Android? Am waiting for the RAC to come rescue
> me, so it's the only way I'll be able to join today!
>

AndChat. It's pretty good.

Jonathon

-- 
ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/

Re: [ubuntu-uk] 1 hour Meeting reminder

[David Jones]

Stephen Garton wrote:
>
> Anyone know of an Irc app for Android? Am waiting for the RAC to come 
> rescue me, so it's the only way I'll be able to join today!
>
> sheepeatingtaz
>
If you've got IRSSI running somewhere, you can use connectbot on android 
phones to access the same as you would under any SSH system.

Dave

-- 
ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/

Re: [ubuntu-uk] 1 hour Meeting reminder

[Stephen Garton]

Anyone know of an Irc app for Android? Am waiting for the RAC to come rescue
me, so it's the only way I'll be able to join today!

sheepeatingtaz

On 17 Jan 2010 18:32, "Alan Bell" 
wrote:

just to remind you all that we have an Ubuntu-uk meeting on IRC channel
#ubuntu-uk on the freenode network one hour from now at 7:30 this
evening. You can normally join in a browser at
http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=ubuntu-uk or using Empathy, Pidgin
or another IRC client.
The agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeamMeetingAgenda
Minutes of the previous meeting are at
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/LastMeeting

see you there,

Alan.

--
ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
-- 
ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/

[ubuntu-uk] 1 hour Meeting reminder

[Alan Bell]

just to remind you all that we have an Ubuntu-uk meeting on IRC channel
#ubuntu-uk on the freenode network one hour from now at 7:30 this
evening. You can normally join in a browser at
http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=ubuntu-uk or using Empathy, Pidgin
or another IRC client.
The agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeamMeetingAgenda
Minutes of the previous meeting are at
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/LastMeeting

see you there,

Alan.

-- 
ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/

Re: [ubuntu-uk] DNS settings resetting[Solved]

[Colin Law]

2010/1/15 Colin Law :
> I am using Ubuntu 9.10 wired to a Linksys modem/router using DHCP to
> get IP etc.  All works fine normally and if I right click on the
> connection icon in the top panel and select Connection Information I
> see my IP address etc as expected, including Primary and Secondary DNS
> servers as provided by my ISP.
>
> Occasionally, however, once a day or so, the DNS values get set to
> 192.168.1.1 (the router ip) and dns fails of course.  If I unplug my
> ethernet cable for a few seconds and plug it back in then it picks up
> the dns again and all is well.

I now see that I had completely misunderstood what is going on here.
Each morning I switch my laptop and modem/router on at the same time.
Ubuntu gets up and running and asks for IP address etc via DHCP.  At
this time the  router has not yet connected to the internet so it
gives the laptop an IP address but for the DNS it gives 192.168.1.1
(the router itself).  When the router connects to the internet it
picks up the actual DNS addresses (but does not pass those on to the
laptop of course as it is too late).  It appears that the router
successfully passes on DNS requests as the laptop then functions ok
for a couple of hours.  During this time the DNS used by the laptop is
192.168.1.1

At some point and for an unknown reason it appears the the router
stops passing on DNS requests and the laptop is unable to resolve
addresses.  I have confirmed that it is the router by configuring one
of my fixed ip address PCs to use 192.168.1.1 for DNS and it fails at
the same time as the laptop.

If I then unplug the laptop ethernet cable and re-insert it, it asks
for ip renewal and this time is given the internet DNS addresses
directly so all is well again.

So in conclusion this is nothing to do with Ubuntu but is a problem
with the router failing to pass on DNS requests for some reason.  I
have worked around it by using fixed DNS in ubuntu network settings as
suggested by Dave Morely.  I may try defaulting the router to see if
it fixes it.  I am not trying this immediately as I am in the process
of switching ISP and do not wish to fiddle with anything until
switched over and all is stable.

Thanks all for your help

Colin

-- 
ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/

Re: [ubuntu-uk] Possible Training Events

[alan c]

Matthew Daubney wrote:
> Hey All,
> This was discussed at the last meeting, but I'm slow and should have put 
> this up sooner. One thing that was discussed was the idea of doing some 
> real life training for people who are new to Ubuntu, through to those 
> who consider themselves experts.
> 
> I've put up an idea in the ideas pool[0], and started an etherpad[1]. 
> Does anyone else have any experience of running these kind of things who 
> would like to lend their expertise? What do people think would work best 
> in this scenario?
> 
> Would anybody be interested in attending such a thing?
> 
> This could be quite a large undertaking, so please get involved if 
> you're in the least bit interested!
> 
> -Matt Daubney
> 
> [0]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/IdeasPool/Real_Life_Training
> [1]http://etherpad.com/woXx76yxpP
> 

Just remembered about the canonical training options
(not to mention the on line support...)
=
http://www.ubuntu.com/support
http://www.ubuntu.com/support/services
* Desktop classroom training
* Desktop e-learning

and
=
Personal desktop support
Personal support for everyone, from first time users, to experienced
professionals.
* Starter desktop service
* Advanced desktop service
* Professional desktop service

=
There is a file student.pdf, and an associated instructor.pdf created
around 7.10 may need updating
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Training
http://www.onlytorrents.com/torrent/student-7-10-pdf:9ca6a5e8bf209bb654ac3aeafcfbabfc3bf4370b
http://www.onlytorrents.com/torrent/ubuntu-instructor-training-pdf:b12b671e39b5473e73c9660f37d10032d72ad7b0

=
also a project recently exists :
Ubuntu-manual
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual

=
and just seen
http://www.pdf-word.net/index.php?q=ubuntu%20handbook%20pdf


-- 
alan cocks
Ubuntu user

-- 
ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/

Re: [ubuntu-uk] Possible Training Events

[Joe O'Dell]

> On 17/01/10 13:20, Colin Law wrote:
>> 2010/1/17 Steve:
>> 
>>> On Sun, 17 Jan 2010 12:32:33 -, alan c
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
 Joe wrote:
 
 
> However, it may be difficult to convince
> 
>> whatever training centre we use to install Ubuntu on their computers so
>> it could be worth having a number of live USB keys with a fresh install
>> of Ubuntu and training material on them.
>> 
>> 
> I agree, especially at my school, there would be no chance of installing
> Ubuntu on the computers. However, perhaps it would be an idea to
> acquire,
> say, 20 USB thumb-drives and load Ubuntu onto them. Would a "live" or a
> "persistent" installation be preferred?
> 
 It is quite hard to arrange live CD or thumb drive to be sure to avoid
 any damage at all to the host PC. In experienced hands, ok, I would
 never open up a terminal and create havoc, or use the partition editor
 wrongly.. but at a public event it is hard to control
 attendees, and maybe some of them will have enough dangerous knowledge
 to upset the host hardware?
 
 
>>> Is it not possible to create a password protected Live CD/Thumbdrive.
>>> 
>> I think the problem is that of preventing the pupil accidentally or
>> otherwise damaging existing data on the hard drive of the PC.
>> 
>> On the other hand if the PCs were being used for a Windows training
>> course one could say exactly the same thing.  The fact that it is
>> Ubuntu is arguably irrelevant.
>> 
>> Colin
>> 
>> 
> This can be avoided by unplugging the HDD :)
> 

Yes, it would. However, if you were to follow the "after-school" route, I dont 
think IT support would take kindly to you dismantling their PCs! (but, they 
wouldn't like it if you wiped their disks clean either - so it is a fair point).

Isn't it possible to "lock down" a live-usb edition of ubuntu? that may be 
another solution, (if it can be done...)

Joe


-- 
ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/

Re: [ubuntu-uk] Possible Training Events

[Matthew Daubney]

On 17/01/10 13:20, Colin Law wrote:
> 2010/1/17 Steve:
>
>> On Sun, 17 Jan 2010 12:32:33 -, alan c
>> wrote:
>>
>>  
>>> Joe wrote:
>>>
>>>
 However, it may be difficult to convince
  
> whatever training centre we use to install Ubuntu on their computers so
> it could be worth having a number of live USB keys with a fresh install
> of Ubuntu and training material on them.
>
>
 I agree, especially at my school, there would be no chance of installing
 Ubuntu on the computers. However, perhaps it would be an idea to
 acquire,
 say, 20 USB thumb-drives and load Ubuntu onto them. Would a "live" or a
 "persistent" installation be preferred?
  
>>> It is quite hard to arrange live CD or thumb drive to be sure to avoid
>>> any damage at all to the host PC. In experienced hands, ok, I would
>>> never open up a terminal and create havoc, or use the partition editor
>>> wrongly.. but at a public event it is hard to control
>>> attendees, and maybe some of them will have enough dangerous knowledge
>>> to upset the host hardware?
>>>
>>>
>> Is it not possible to create a password protected Live CD/Thumbdrive.
>>  
> I think the problem is that of preventing the pupil accidentally or
> otherwise damaging existing data on the hard drive of the PC.
>
> On the other hand if the PCs were being used for a Windows training
> course one could say exactly the same thing.  The fact that it is
> Ubuntu is arguably irrelevant.
>
> Colin
>
>
This can be avoided by unplugging the HDD :)

-Matt Daubney

-- 
ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/

Re: [ubuntu-uk] Possible Training Events

[Colin Law]

2010/1/17 Steve :
> On Sun, 17 Jan 2010 12:32:33 -, alan c 
> wrote:
>
>> Joe wrote:
>>
>>> However, it may be difficult to convince
 whatever training centre we use to install Ubuntu on their computers so
 it could be worth having a number of live USB keys with a fresh install
 of Ubuntu and training material on them.

>>>
>>> I agree, especially at my school, there would be no chance of installing
>>> Ubuntu on the computers. However, perhaps it would be an idea to
>>> acquire,
>>> say, 20 USB thumb-drives and load Ubuntu onto them. Would a "live" or a
>>> "persistent" installation be preferred?
>>
>> It is quite hard to arrange live CD or thumb drive to be sure to avoid
>> any damage at all to the host PC. In experienced hands, ok, I would
>> never open up a terminal and create havoc, or use the partition editor
>> wrongly.. but at a public event it is hard to control
>> attendees, and maybe some of them will have enough dangerous knowledge
>> to upset the host hardware?
>>
> Is it not possible to create a password protected Live CD/Thumbdrive.

I think the problem is that of preventing the pupil accidentally or
otherwise damaging existing data on the hard drive of the PC.

On the other hand if the PCs were being used for a Windows training
course one could say exactly the same thing.  The fact that it is
Ubuntu is arguably irrelevant.

Colin

-- 
ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/

Re: [ubuntu-uk] Possible Training Events

[Jon Spriggs]

Just a quick comment about the style of training. There are four styles of
learning, which someone will naturally fall into. These, typically are put
onto a cross-hairs style graph.

  Theory first
  Practical second

Instructor  Experimentation
Lead.  Driven

  Practical first
  Theory second.

If you can ensure you cover off all four areas in your training, that'd be a
good starting point.

A few years back I ran training courses on Linux for helpdesk staff I was
working with. Sadly, I've lost what I wrote at the time, but I'd be more
than happy to help write some of the courseware.
-- 
Jon ""The Nice Guy"" Spriggs LPIC-1 Certified
This message was sent from my mobile device. Please excuse any top posting
and typos that may occur as a result.

On 17 Jan 2010 12:03, "Matthew Daubney"  wrote:

On 17/01/10 04:08, Bruno Girin wrote:
> 

> I've given technical training in the past and would be happy to help. >
The first question is what...
This sounds like the best idea at first. I would _love_ to eventually do
a large event, but starting small would be much easier logistically.

> The biggest hurdle will probably be to find locations and equipment to >
run the trainings. This ...
Yes, my initial thought in all this was that people will learn more by
acrtually doing something than by sitting and having someone talk to
them. Most of the basic stuff can be taught this way (I believe, but
please feel free to correct me as I've never really trained people
before) but more advanced stuff may require a certain amount of being
lectured too.

> In terms of material, I agree that there's no point in having a slide >
deck as trainees will pro...
At one point there was a proposal to make a DVD from the screencasts, if
we could create a set of screencasts with some kind of leaflet to go
with it giving some exercises we could achieve two aims at once.

> Computers will be essential. However, it may be difficult to convince >
whatever training centre ...
Yes, this is true. If it comes to it I may be able to borrow a pile of
SATA HDD's from work which we could swap out the training centres ones
with. This would require more work though, so I'm not convinced of it's
worth. USB Keys may be the way forward, and if we use Live ones than we
can just reboot machines to get a fresh environment between classes.

>> Would anybody be interested in attending such a thing? >> > Definitely!
There are lots of t...
Excellent! From the brief burst of discussion I'm quite taken aback at
how much thought people have put into this! I'll attempt to distill most
of this discussion into the wiki over the course of the day to make it
easier to refer too.

>> This could be quite a large undertaking, so please get involved if >>
you're in the least bit int...
Indeed. It may be best then to create a syllabus for absolute beginners,
and then work upwards. I'll be quite happy to run a session at Oggcamp
(for those who are planning to attend) to run some real life discussion
on this.

-Matt Daubney

-- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubu...
-- 
ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/

Re: [ubuntu-uk] Possible Training Events

[Steve]

On Sun, 17 Jan 2010 12:32:33 -, alan c   
wrote:

> Joe wrote:
>
>> However, it may be difficult to convince
>>> whatever training centre we use to install Ubuntu on their computers so
>>> it could be worth having a number of live USB keys with a fresh install
>>> of Ubuntu and training material on them.
>>>
>>
>> I agree, especially at my school, there would be no chance of installing
>> Ubuntu on the computers. However, perhaps it would be an idea to  
>> acquire,
>> say, 20 USB thumb-drives and load Ubuntu onto them. Would a "live" or a
>> "persistent" installation be preferred?
>
> It is quite hard to arrange live CD or thumb drive to be sure to avoid
> any damage at all to the host PC. In experienced hands, ok, I would
> never open up a terminal and create havoc, or use the partition editor
> wrongly.. but at a public event it is hard to control
> attendees, and maybe some of them will have enough dangerous knowledge
> to upset the host hardware?
>
Is it not possible to create a password protected Live CD/Thumbdrive.

-- 
Steve

-- 
ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/

Re: [ubuntu-uk] [marketing] Possible Training Events

[Steve]

On Sun, 17 Jan 2010 12:50:56 -, John Matthews  wrote:

> I would like to be part of it. I am learning on my own, but it would be
> good to have taught lessons.
>
> John.
>
So what would you like to be taught?

-- 
Steve

-- 
ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/

Re: [ubuntu-uk] [marketing] Possible Training Events

[John Matthews]

I would like to be part of it. I am learning on my own, but it would be 
good to have taught lessons.

John.

-- 
ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/

Re: [ubuntu-uk] [marketing] Possible Training Events

[alan c]

Steve wrote:
> I know from talking to people in the pub that a awful lot  
> of people have no interest in another operating system.

that could be where marketing comes in

>  Their computer  
> comes with one and that’s what they’re going to use.  As you say training 
>  
> will probably have to be aimed at existing Ubuntu users.  The problem then  
> is; are they Ubuntu, Kubuntu or Xubuntu users.
> I have, in the past, done quite a bit of training at all levels and hands  
> on for the vast majority is the way to go.  People generally don’t like  
> lectures, they prefer to do something.  The one problem with courses aimed  
> at people that already use computers is knowing what level to start at and  
> how fast to go with out causing frustration for everybody.  I found it  
> best to have one 'Teacher' and an assistant for every 3-4 people.
> 
> I’d be happy to help as I rather like doing this sort of thing.
> 

I believe that the course content and arrangements are an issue that
can be solved as required. I think the major question is - Who is
going to, or wants to, attend?
Maybe this is a chicken and egg situation with 'marketing'?

-- 
alan cocks
Ubuntu user

-- 
ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/

Re: [ubuntu-uk] [marketing] Possible Training Events

[alan c]

Tony Pursell wrote:
> Conversion is a marketing job.  

+1


>Training can only 
> be aimed at people who are already converts, or who are the rare few 
> who cannot have MS Windows. 
> 
> If we are to get past 'gatekeepers' who are died in the wool MS users, 
> then we will need a really cast iron reason to teach Ubuntu to people.  

A good reason would be a lot of end users asking for training.
Where will the attendees come from?

-- 
alan cocks
Ubuntu user

-- 
ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/

Re: [ubuntu-uk] [marketing] Possible Training Events

[Steve]

On Sun, 17 Jan 2010 12:04:38 -, Tony Pursell  
 wrote:

> On 17 Jan 2010 at 10:02, alan c wrote:
>
>> Apart from ignorance, even sheer prejudice, there is strong inertia to
>> continue with their existing OS whatever it is.
>>
>> There is, surprising to me, little motivation for many people I know,
>> to move from Windows. However, as Ubuntu gains more coverage,
>> including magazines on shelves, people will become aware it is a choice.
>>
>
> This is just the way things are - for most people, computers are MS
> Windows.  They always have been, and always will be.  (And guess
> what? Even I still use XP as my main OS on my desktop computer
> because it still does things that Ubuntu cannot do.)
>
> I'm sure that whatever we do in the way of Ubuntu training must be
> targetted at people who already have Ubuntu (or at least a need for
> Ubuntu).  We cannot think that these training sessions are aimed at
> converting people.  Conversion is a marketing job.  Training can only
> be aimed at people who are already converts, or who are the rare few
> who cannot have MS Windows.
>
> If we are to get past 'gatekeepers' who are died in the wool MS users,
> then we will need a really cast iron reason to teach Ubuntu to people.
> Something more than its just good for people to know that there is
> another OS other that MS.
>
> Tony
>
Beat me to it.  I know from talking to people in the pub that a awful lot  
of people have no interest in another operating system.  Their computer  
comes with one and that’s what they’re going to use.  As you say training  
will probably have to be aimed at existing Ubuntu users.  The problem then  
is; are they Ubuntu, Kubuntu or Xubuntu users.
I have, in the past, done quite a bit of training at all levels and hands  
on for the vast majority is the way to go.  People generally don’t like  
lectures, they prefer to do something.  The one problem with courses aimed  
at people that already use computers is knowing what level to start at and  
how fast to go with out causing frustration for everybody.  I found it  
best to have one 'Teacher' and an assistant for every 3-4 people.

I’d be happy to help as I rather like doing this sort of thing.

-- 
Steve

-- 
ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/

Re: [ubuntu-uk] Possible Training Events

[alan c]

Joe wrote:

> However, it may be difficult to convince
>> whatever training centre we use to install Ubuntu on their computers so
>> it could be worth having a number of live USB keys with a fresh install
>> of Ubuntu and training material on them.
>>
> 
> I agree, especially at my school, there would be no chance of installing
> ubuntu on the computers. However, perhaps it would be an idea to acquire,
> say, 20 usb thumbdrives and load Ubuntu onto them. Would a "live" or a
> "persistent" installation be preffered?

It is quite hard to arrange live cd or thumb drive to be sure to avoid
any damage at all to the host PC. In experienced hands, ok, I would
never open up a terminal and create havok, or use the partition editor
wrongly.. but at a pubilic event it is hard to control
attendees, and maybe some of them will have enough dangerous knowledge
to upset the host hardware?

-- 
alan ciocks
Ubuntu user

-- 
ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/

Re: [ubuntu-uk] [marketing] Possible Training Events

[Norman Silverstone]

> < snip >
> 
> > If we are to get past 'gatekeepers' who are died in the wool MS users, 
> > then we will need a really cast iron reason to teach Ubuntu to people.  
> > Something more than its just good for people to know that there is 
> > another OS other that MS.
> > 
> Is this information of any help to the cause?
>   
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8463516.stm
> 
If you are interested, this is the original German statement.

https://www.bsi.bund.de/cln_183/ContentBSI/presse/Pressemitteilungen/Sicherheitsluecke_IE_150110.html

Norman



-- 
ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/

Re: [ubuntu-uk] [marketing] Possible Training Events

[Norman Silverstone]

< snip >

> If we are to get past 'gatekeepers' who are died in the wool MS users, 
> then we will need a really cast iron reason to teach Ubuntu to people.  
> Something more than its just good for people to know that there is 
> another OS other that MS.
> 
Is this information of any help to the cause?
  
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8463516.stm

Norman






-- 
ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/

Re: [ubuntu-uk] [marketing] Possible Training Events

[Tony Pursell]

On 17 Jan 2010 at 10:02, alan c wrote:

> Apart from ignorance, even sheer prejudice, there is strong inertia to
> continue with their existing OS whatever it is.
> 
> There is, surprising to me, little motivation for many people I know,
> to move from Windows. However, as Ubuntu gains more coverage,
> including magazines on shelves, people will become aware it is a choice.
> 

This is just the way things are - for most people, computers are MS 
Windows.  They always have been, and always will be.  (And guess 
what? Even I still use XP as my main OS on my desktop computer 
because it still does things that Ubuntu cannot do.)

I'm sure that whatever we do in the way of Ubuntu training must be 
targetted at people who already have Ubuntu (or at least a need for 
Ubuntu).  We cannot think that these training sessions are aimed at 
converting people.  Conversion is a marketing job.  Training can only 
be aimed at people who are already converts, or who are the rare few 
who cannot have MS Windows. 

If we are to get past 'gatekeepers' who are died in the wool MS users, 
then we will need a really cast iron reason to teach Ubuntu to people.  
Something more than its just good for people to know that there is 
another OS other that MS.

Tony





-- 
ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/

Re: [ubuntu-uk] Possible Training Events

[Matthew Daubney]

On 17/01/10 04:08, Bruno Girin wrote:
> 
> I've given technical training in the past and would be happy to help.
> The first question is what type of training are we aiming for? It may be
> easier to start with short sessions that can be done over a few hours,
> either in the evenings or at weekends, as it will require less
> commitment from trainers and trainees.
>

This sounds like the best idea at first. I would _love_ to eventually do 
a large event, but starting small would be much easier logistically.

> The biggest hurdle will probably be to find locations and equipment to
> run the trainings. This can be simplified for training sessions that are
> done as part of a larger event, as we can piggy back on their
> organisation. On the other hand, talking to local community centres, it
> may be possible to get rooms and stuff for free, especially if we offer
> things like running sessions for their members (thus introducing them to
> Ubuntu at the same time).
>
>


> In terms of teachers, a single teacher who knows his subject and who has
> good course material should be enough. Assistants would only be
> necessary in larger groups. A simple way to help things out is to group
> trainees in pairs rather than let them all have their individual
> computer to play with: they can help each other out. Another trick is to
> ensure you have ample time for hands-on exercises, during which the
> teacher can come round and help the trainees with things they struggle
> with.
>
>
Yes, my initial thought in all this was that people will learn more by 
acrtually doing something than by sitting and having someone talk to 
them. Most of the basic stuff can be taught this way (I believe, but 
please feel free to correct me as I've never really trained people 
before) but more advanced stuff may require a certain amount of being 
lectured too.

> In terms of material, I agree that there's no point in having a slide
> deck as trainees will promptly forget the content. Furthermore it
> requires a projector, which is more equipment to get hold of. On the
> other hand, it is essential to give comprehensive course material,
> including exercises, that they can take home and refer to at their
> leisure. This can take the form of a CD, the URL of a file to download,
> etc. One thing to consider as well is a printout of the core course
> material so that they can follow during the course and take notes.
>
>
At one point there was a proposal to make a DVD from the screencasts, if 
we could create a set of screencasts with some kind of leaflet to go 
with it giving some exercises we could achieve two aims at once.

> Computers will be essential. However, it may be difficult to convince
> whatever training centre we use to install Ubuntu on their computers so
> it could be worth having a number of live USB keys with a fresh install
> of Ubuntu and training material on them.
>
>
>
Yes, this is true. If it comes to it I may be able to borrow a pile of 
SATA HDD's from work which we could swap out the training centres ones 
with. This would require more work though, so I'm not convinced of it's 
worth. USB Keys may be the way forward, and if we use Live ones than we 
can just reboot machines to get a fresh environment between classes.
>> Would anybody be interested in attending such a thing?
>>  
> Definitely! There are lots of things I'd like to learn about Ubuntu so
> I'd definitely be keen to attend as a trainee or as a trainer.
>
>
Excellent! From the brief burst of discussion I'm quite taken aback at 
how much thought people have put into this! I'll attempt to distill most 
of this discussion into the wiki over the course of the day to make it 
easier to refer too.
>> This could be quite a large undertaking, so please get involved if
>> you're in the least bit interested!
>>  
> True but it doesn't have to be huge on day 1. We can test drive the
> concept with small sessions in a coffee shop between interested people
> bringing their own laptops.
>
> Bruno Girin
>

Indeed. It may be best then to create a syllabus for absolute beginners, 
and then work upwards. I'll be quite happy to run a session at Oggcamp 
(for those who are planning to attend) to run some real life discussion 
on this.

-Matt Daubney

-- 
ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/

Re: [ubuntu-uk] Possible Training Events

[Joe]

> I wondered if an
> option to deal with this might be to offer a short series of evening
> class at the local high school (many of which run 'recreational' evening
> classes), or approach the University of the Third Age or the Workers
> Educational Association to offer a short course.
>

That sounds like a good plan. My local school (Bedfordshire - ~1600 pupils!)
wouldn't have a problem at all with that, in fact, they actually hire out
rooms to local groups. I'm sure if I sent an email to the facilities office
and expalined the situation, that they would be more than happy to help. All
the classrooms have projectors, and most have interactive whiteboards too.

Would anybody be interested in attending such a thing?
>

Yeah! Being a novice, I'd love to join in and learn a bit more about
Linux/Ubuntu from people who know what they're talking about. :)

However, it may be difficult to convince
> whatever training centre we use to install Ubuntu on their computers so
> it could be worth having a number of live USB keys with a fresh install
> of Ubuntu and training material on them.
>

I agree, especially at my school, there would be no chance of installing
ubuntu on the computers. However, perhaps it would be an idea to acquire,
say, 20 usb thumbdrives and load Ubuntu onto them. Would a "live" or a
"persistent" installation be preffered?

> This could be quite a large undertaking, so please get involved if
>> > you're in the least bit interested!
>>
>
I would have no problem whatsoever in giving a hand in this project.
Although I'm not the most experienced user, I will give what I can to this
project. One thing that has just
 popped into my head would be for me to spend a weekend preloading Ubuntu
onto memory keys and then sending them onto whoever wants them.

Individuals wanting to run a proper operating system at home
> People wanting to introduce Ubuntu into their workplace
> Students wanting to use it in their studies
>

Although I'd class myself as the last category, I'd say that I would fit
into all 3!
However, I cant really see how each of the three groups  would need
different training. Surely just a "crash course" in ubuntu would be
sufficient? I'm sure it isnt, but I was just thinking.

Regards,

Joe
(ascenseur)


Stephen 
Leacock
- "I detest life-insurance agents: they always argue that I shall some
day
die, which is not so."
-- 
ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/

Re: [ubuntu-uk] [marketing] Possible Training Events

[alan c]

Jon Spriggs wrote:
> I have forwarded the e-mail to the uk-hackspaces mailing list, as there are
> several regional hackspaces across the UK (London, Birmingham, Manchester,
> Liverpool, Leeds) who may be able to help - in some cases with venue and in
> others with knowledge.
> 

[...]

>useful for a few people just to run little local 'pilot' events, to
see what the issues really are, and what seemed to work.

I run a monthly Infopoint table (non trading) at the local computer
fair with much FOSS information including Ubuntu.

Local 'Ubuntu Clubs' would be useful,
and I do not mean existing LUGs which are great for more serious users.
They could be 'LUG Child' status, as long as it was ok to discuss lots
of non technical things too.

>I wondered if an
>option to deal with this might be to offer a short series of evening
>class at the local high school (many of which run 'recreational' evening
>classes)

I have talked to my local 'adult learning' person and it seems obvious
that it is expected that the teachers/trainers are qualified as
teachers  with few exceptions. They tend to be employed from existing
college staff, as part time, for example. The establishment.

The person herself has a lifetime investment of Microsoft product
knowledge with the consequent view of Free Software, and also, if her
clients started to use Open Office, she would have to learn it all
again. Not a motivator for her.

Not only that but her clients literally all use Windows so the
expectation for them is MS courses. Chicken and egg.

It needs someone to break the cycle and take the lead, although it
might be easier for this to be done outside of the established
educational organisations. Unless you know of a politician or
councillor or high ranking local gov official who already favours FOSS.

>or approach the University of the Third Age

This might be useful if it could be followed up.
The U3A national magazine has had a number of letters favouring Ubuntu.
I am in U3A in Bracknell. I run an online group for 'computers beyond
beginners'. Not FOSS, just computers generally. An online group is
pretty novel for U3a. The activities are traditionally sitting
listening to a central speaker. However, I have to say that of the
local membership of several hundred, my group has only a few members
and 'online' seems to be a concept which has not yet caught on.
I gave a talk on GNU/Linux and Ubuntu a while ago to the main computer
group. Even group members would be unlikely to re install their
(Windows) OS. With one or two exceptions in a group of around 30 members.
I included a short video of Eben Moglen. One of the group commented
Moglen was a 'rabid socialist'.

Apart from ignorance, even sheer prejudice, there is strong inertia to
continue with their existing OS whatever it is.

There is, surprising to me, little motivation for many people I know,
to move from Windows. However, as Ubuntu gains more coverage,
including magazines on shelves, people will become aware it is a choice.

Local Ubuntu Clubs sound like a good idea to me though.
-- 
alan cocks
Ubuntu user


-- 
ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/

Re: [ubuntu-uk] Possible Training Events

[Alan Bell]

Overall this is a great idea. I think we need to clarify who this is
aimed at. Off the top of my head I can think of three broad categories:

Individuals wanting to run a proper operating system at home
People wanting to introduce Ubuntu into their workplace
Students wanting to use it in their studies

This affects to some extent the style and content of the event, but more
importantly it affects the amount of time, effort and money people will
be willing to throw at it, and how it would need to be publicised.



Alan.

-- 
ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/

Re: [ubuntu-uk] Possible Training Events

[Jon Spriggs]

I have forwarded the e-mail to the uk-hackspaces mailing list, as there are
several regional hackspaces across the UK (London, Birmingham, Manchester,
Liverpool, Leeds) who may be able to help - in some cases with venue and in
others with knowledge.

Regards
-- 
Jon ""The Nice Guy"" Spriggs LPIC-1 Certified
This message was sent from my mobile device. Please excuse any top posting
and typos that may occur as a result.

On 17 Jan 2010 08:09, "mac"  wrote:

Bruno Girin wrote: > I've given technical training in the past and would be
happy to help.
I was impressed with the thoroughness of your summary, Bruno.  Seems to
me you noted most of the elements, and outlined the relevant options.
Rather than us engaging in a long discussion, I wondered if it wouldn't
be more useful for a few people just to run little local 'pilot' events,
to see what the issues really are, and what seemed to work.

> The biggest hurdle will probably be to find locations and equipment to >
run the trainings.
As you say, venue and kit may be the main problem.  I wondered if an
option to deal with this might be to offer a short series of evening
class at the local high school (many of which run 'recreational' evening
classes), or approach the University of the Third Age or the Workers
Educational Association to offer a short course.

Just a thought.

mac

-- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubu...
-- 
ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/

Re: [ubuntu-uk] Possible Training Events

[mac]

Bruno Girin wrote:
> I've given technical training in the past and would be happy to help.

I was impressed with the thoroughness of your summary, Bruno.  Seems to 
me you noted most of the elements, and outlined the relevant options. 
Rather than us engaging in a long discussion, I wondered if it wouldn't 
be more useful for a few people just to run little local 'pilot' events, 
to see what the issues really are, and what seemed to work.

> The biggest hurdle will probably be to find locations and equipment to
> run the trainings. 

As you say, venue and kit may be the main problem.  I wondered if an 
option to deal with this might be to offer a short series of evening 
class at the local high school (many of which run 'recreational' evening 
classes), or approach the University of the Third Age or the Workers 
Educational Association to offer a short course.

Just a thought.

mac

-- 
ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/