Re: [ubuntu-uk] marketing
On 22/09/11 17:06, paul sutton wrote: Hi I think to highlight the situation https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DIYMarketing#Posters there is a poster here, for 5.04, now that seems to be years and I mean years out of date its like trying to put up a poster to promote windows XP ) Surely there should be a policy of the lifecycle of posters or other materials is the same for that of the actual version so 8.04 and 10.04 being long term releases which i think have support cycles of 5 years, after 5 years the materials promoting these should be deleted, or as for normal releases its 3 years (i think) then purge after that. Just an idea Paul Standard releases are 18 months, LTS releases are 3 years on the desktop and 5 years on the server. But yeah, I see your point. Rob -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Open Source Schools Project - literacy
A small point but perhaps more important given that you are trying to impress teachers: its = the possessive form of it (i.e. belonging to it) it's = the abbreviation of 'it is'. John -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] efi boot, Windows 8 and Linux
On 22/09/2011 22:31, paul sutton wrote: Well there seems to be a market for PC's minus an OS now, I suppose it all depends on what your target market is. It would be interesting to find out the ratio of computers (and by that term I mean both laptops and desktops) used in business to that of home non-business use. Certainly in large corporations the process tends to be buy whatever machines we need and we'll image them with our own volume-licensed disks. In that case I suspect that any EFI restrictions won't matter because what they image them with will comply with the EFI requirements purely for the sake of speed and ease of imaging. (For example my wife received a new laptop last year that had Windows 7 stickers on it yet was imaged by the company with XP). If the numbers of machine in use in corporate settings (and I know that certainly the vast majority of MS Office installations are in corporate settings so it would be logical to assume the same for machines) is a lot greater than than those in homes then I suspect that the major OEM vendors aren't going to bother (in terms of ROI) to make any sort of significant numbers of machines with no OS. That again leaves us in a no win situation because only the knowledgeable, the hobbyists and converted are going to bother to search out a bare-bones machine to install their own OS on. Again - what actually happens will be driven in the main by the largest group of users, and I suspect that is the Corporate sector... Now whether Windows 8 will even be a factor in this I don't know. Certainly AFAIK (as above) many large corporations have not yet upgraded to Windows 7, even though it's been out for nearly two years now and XP comes out of support in 30 months -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
[ubuntu-uk] Adwords Vouchers
Morning All, I have three adwords voucher codes for £50 each if anyone wants one? I can't use them as you can only use one voucher per account - Over any period of time. I don't think it breaks any sort of rules doing this, does anyone know? Best Regards, Dave Hanson http://hansonforensics.co.uk -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] efi boot, Windows 8 and Linux
On 22/09/11 22:31, paul sutton wrote: How do you educate people about this new technology built in to BIOS's without boring people,.confusing people with what they see as compex jargon or worse coming across as paranoid. All of which is counter productive, This is the genius of the strategy, from an anti FLOSS point of view. It continues to show that whatever MS appears to be, the crocodile is actually not asleep and has some pretty smart moves available. -- alan cocks Ubuntu user -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Open Source Schools Project - literacy
On 23 September 2011 09:35, ** johnbrid...@yahoo.com wrote: A small point but perhaps more important given that you are trying to impress teachers: its = the possessive form of it (i.e. belonging to it) it's = the abbreviation of 'it is'. :¬) WHS. Or the way I try to help people remember it... You wouldn't put an apostrophe in his, hers, theirs, ours or yours - so don't put it in its, either. -- Liam Proven • Info profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/lproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lpro...@gmail.com Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884 • Fax: + 44 870-9151419 AIM/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven • MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • ICQ: 73187508 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
[ubuntu-uk] Python Question
Hello Everyone,
I have scoured the web and can only find half baked answers to my question -
I'm hoping someone here can help?
I know that Python is classed as a portable programming language (it will
run on anything) So I'm wondering how do you code in such a way that your
script can just be 'ported' over to another OS?
I have this code to locate the Firefox directory:
from subprocess import Popen, PIPE
li = Popen(['find', '/', '-iname', '*.default'],
stdout=PIPE).stdout.read().split('\n')
flag = 1
for item in li:
if item.find('firefox') != -1:
print outfile, Firefox Directory: , item
flag = 0
break
It works fine on my Ubuntu machine, It won't run on a Windows machine
(haven't tested) I think because I'm calling the unix version of find and
also my path is /, obviously this would be c: in windows.
I want to search the entire disk of any OS to find the Firefox cache
directory. Is it even possible to do this? I don't particularly need the
code to do it (I don't mind if you want to share though!) What I'm really
after is - Am I wasting my time even trying?
Best Regards,
Dave Hanson
http://hansonforensics.co.uk
--
ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Python Question
On 2011-09-23 15:38, Dave Hanson wrote: I want to search the entire disk of any OS to find the Firefox cache directory. Is it even possible to do this? I don't particularly need the code to do it (I don't mind if you want to share though!) What I'm really after is - Am I wasting my time even trying? The problem is that you're using tools external to python, which are platform-dependent. Consider instead using the os.path python library. Regards, Tyler -- In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. -- George Orwell -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Python Question
On Fri, 2011-09-23 at 15:38 +0100, Dave Hanson wrote: [...] It works fine on my Ubuntu machine, It won't run on a Windows machine (haven't tested) I think because I'm calling the unix version of find and also my path is /, obviously this would be c: in windows. It won't work because you're using find. Your popen in running a command (find) and it's not available on Windows. I want to search the entire disk of any OS to find the Firefox cache directory. Is it even possible to do this? I don't particularly need the code to do it (I don't mind if you want to share though!) What I'm really after is - Am I wasting my time even trying? You can do it in a 100% pythonic way (not calling external commands), although I would use platform specific code for that instead of scanning the whole disk. ie. if sys.platform == 'win32': # run windows code elif sys.platform == 'darwing': # run mac code ... etc ... Then on windows import the required win32 crap to get firefox directory from the registry. On Linux you can guess that the directory will be on $HOME/.mozila/* and the like, so use a list of possible directories. Regards, Juanjo -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Python Question
On 23 September 2011 15:38, Dave Hanson d...@hansonforensics.co.uk wrote:
Hello Everyone,
I have scoured the web and can only find half baked answers to my question
- I'm hoping someone here can help?
I know that Python is classed as a portable programming language (it will
run on anything) So I'm wondering how do you code in such a way that your
script can just be 'ported' over to another OS?
I have this code to locate the Firefox directory:
from subprocess import Popen, PIPE
li = Popen(['find', '/', '-iname', '*.default'],
stdout=PIPE).stdout.read().split('\n')
flag = 1
for item in li:
if item.find('firefox') != -1:
print outfile, Firefox Directory: , item
flag = 0
break
It works fine on my Ubuntu machine, It won't run on a Windows machine
(haven't tested) I think because I'm calling the unix version of find and
also my path is /, obviously this would be c: in windows.
I want to search the entire disk of any OS to find the Firefox cache
directory. Is it even possible to do this? I don't particularly need the
code to do it (I don't mind if you want to share though!) What I'm really
after is - Am I wasting my time even trying?
Simple answer is that there probably isn't anything that's universal so it
would be easier to detect the OS using sys.platform and write specific code
for each platform.
s/
--
Twitter: @sfgreenwood
Is this your sanderling?
--
ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Python Question
Thanks Tyler, I did look at that but saw no way to tell it to use the entire disk. Juanjo/Simon - Thanks, that was the only alternative I could think of but considered it long winded if there was a sort of universal option like Tyler suggested. I'll probably use sys.platform then. It's not much more coding to be fair, the docs show only 8 variations on the output for the different operating systems. I suppose I was more interested in seeing what's possible and trying to understand the language a bit better. Once I'm in the directory I am querying the SQLite files so that shouldn't be platform specific from then on I wouldn't have thought as I would use the sqlite3 python module? Thanks again for the fast responses. I should have just posted here instead of searching for two hours - Doh! Best Regards, Dave Hanson http://hansonforensics.co.uk On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 3:43 PM, Tyler J. Wagner ty...@tolaris.com wrote: On 2011-09-23 15:38, Dave Hanson wrote: I want to search the entire disk of any OS to find the Firefox cache directory. Is it even possible to do this? I don't particularly need the code to do it (I don't mind if you want to share though!) What I'm really after is - Am I wasting my time even trying? The problem is that you're using tools external to python, which are platform-dependent. Consider instead using the os.path python library. Regards, Tyler -- In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. -- George Orwell -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] efi boot, Windows 8 and Linux
On Thu, 2011-09-22 at 00:06 +0100, Alan Bell wrote: On 21/09/11 23:29, Bea Groves wrote: Just read the following. Comments? yeah, it is potentially very nasty. To be Windows 8 certified computers will have to be able to do this secure boot thing. Most will include an option to turn it off, exactly like the google chromebooks do, they have a switch to turn off the code signing requirement so you can run unsigned operating systems. The OLPC also has this exact same feature, but you can get a dev key and turn it off. The problem is that some manufacturers might start not bothering to include an off switch. So that would creep in as a set of machines (probably quite mainstream high volume ones) that won't run anything but the pre-installed Windows 8 or above. The big problem is that Windows 9 might *require* secure boot to run. This means it won't run on older machines (driving hardware sales, the industry likes that) and means that more manufacturers will fail to include an off switch for the secure boot. If the market doesn't punish them by people avoiding these pre-bricked computers then they will keep doing it. Microsoft will carefully not require OEMs to fail to include an off switch, because that would be anti-competitive. Virtualbox and VMware and so on can include the public keys and provide a secure boot environment, or run unsigned code for developing drivers and running Linux, but you won't be running Linux on the hardware, only virtualised. It is kind of like the current trend for using up 4 primary partitions and not creating extended partitions to make dual booting harder, but this one you potentially can't get round. I can see a time when you have to get a laptop chipped to run Linux like you would a DVD player to do multi region. Alan. -- Libertus Solutions http://libertus.co.uk Yes, agree this is what is likely to happen. It would effectively confine Linux back to a small, techie ghetto - and that's assuming that it will still be possible to buy motherboards without the keys or with an 'off' switch. When I'm talking to voluntary sector orgs they frequently say to me that Microsoft Windows is 'part of the computer' and if you change the OS it won't work properly any more. This could make that current misconception actually true! What's Canonical's view on this? It seems tempting to team up with a producer such as Aleutia to ensure that unlocked PCs are still out there - and with an 'eco' selling point. Paula -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] efi boot, Windows 8 and Linux
This appeared on the OMGUbuntu site earlier today: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/09/microsoft-attempt-address-windows-8-linux-worries/ james. On 23 September 2011 16:05, gazz pmg...@gmx.co.uk wrote: On Thu, 2011-09-22 at 00:06 +0100, Alan Bell wrote: On 21/09/11 23:29, Bea Groves wrote: Just read the following. Comments? yeah, it is potentially very nasty. To be Windows 8 certified computers will have to be able to do this secure boot thing. Most will include an option to turn it off, exactly like the google chromebooks do, they have a switch to turn off the code signing requirement so you can run unsigned operating systems. The OLPC also has this exact same feature, but you can get a dev key and turn it off. The problem is that some manufacturers might start not bothering to include an off switch. So that would creep in as a set of machines (probably quite mainstream high volume ones) that won't run anything but the pre-installed Windows 8 or above. The big problem is that Windows 9 might *require* secure boot to run. This means it won't run on older machines (driving hardware sales, the industry likes that) and means that more manufacturers will fail to include an off switch for the secure boot. If the market doesn't punish them by people avoiding these pre-bricked computers then they will keep doing it. Microsoft will carefully not require OEMs to fail to include an off switch, because that would be anti-competitive. Virtualbox and VMware and so on can include the public keys and provide a secure boot environment, or run unsigned code for developing drivers and running Linux, but you won't be running Linux on the hardware, only virtualised. It is kind of like the current trend for using up 4 primary partitions and not creating extended partitions to make dual booting harder, but this one you potentially can't get round. I can see a time when you have to get a laptop chipped to run Linux like you would a DVD player to do multi region. Alan. -- Libertus Solutions http://libertus.co.uk Yes, agree this is what is likely to happen. It would effectively confine Linux back to a small, techie ghetto - and that's assuming that it will still be possible to buy motherboards without the keys or with an 'off' switch. When I'm talking to voluntary sector orgs they frequently say to me that Microsoft Windows is 'part of the computer' and if you change the OS it won't work properly any more. This could make that current misconception actually true! What's Canonical's view on this? It seems tempting to team up with a producer such as Aleutia to ensure that unlocked PCs are still out there - and with an 'eco' selling point. Paula -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ -- Dr. James Morrissey Senior Research Officer Refugee Studies Centre Department of International Development University of Oxford -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Python Question
On 23 September 2011 09:56, Dave Hanson d...@hansonforensics.co.uk wrote: Thanks again for the fast responses. I should have just posted here instead of searching for two hours - Doh! Don't forget the guys at Python IRC [http://www.python.org/community/irc/]... they've been very helpful to me in the past! -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Open Source Schools Project - literacy
-Original Message- From: ubuntu-uk-boun...@lists.ubuntu.com [mailto:ubuntu-uk-boun...@lists.ubuntu.com] On Behalf Of Liam Proven Sent: 23 September 2011 15:04 To: **; UK Ubuntu Talk Subject: Re: [ubuntu-uk] Open Source Schools Project - literacy :¬) WHS. Or the way I try to help people remember it... You wouldn't put an apostrophe in his, hers, theirs, ours or yours - so don't put it in its, either. -- Liam Proven Info profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/lproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lpro...@gmail.com Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 Cell: +44 7939-087884 Fax: + 44 870-9151419 AIM/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com ICQ: 73187508 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ Sorry, Can't resist: his, hers are equivalent to its, the rest could also be their, our or your. Joe -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Open Source Schools Project - literacy
On 23 September 2011 16:53, Joe joe.metca...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: Sorry, Can't resist: his, hers are equivalent to its, the rest could also be their, our or your. This example is your, not mine? Or this conversation is our, as it is between you and me? They couldn't also be - I think this is a case difference, same as he/him, she/her or who/whom. -- Liam Proven • Info profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/lproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lpro...@gmail.com Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884 • Fax: + 44 870-9151419 AIM/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven • MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • ICQ: 73187508 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] efi boot, Windows 8 and Linux
On 23 September 2011 16:20, James Morrissey morrissey.jam...@gmail.comwrote: This appeared on the OMGUbuntu site earlier today: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/09/microsoft-attempt-address-windows-8-linux-worries/ james. On 23 September 2011 16:05, gazz pmg...@gmx.co.uk wrote: On Thu, 2011-09-22 at 00:06 +0100, Alan Bell wrote: On 21/09/11 23:29, Bea Groves wrote: Just read the following. Comments? yeah, it is potentially very nasty. To be Windows 8 certified computers will have to be able to do this secure boot thing. Most will include an option to turn it off, exactly like the google chromebooks do, they have a switch to turn off the code signing requirement so you can run unsigned operating systems. The OLPC also has this exact same feature, but you can get a dev key and turn it off. The problem is that some manufacturers might start not bothering to include an off switch. So that would creep in as a set of machines (probably quite mainstream high volume ones) that won't run anything but the pre-installed Windows 8 or above. The big problem is that Windows 9 might *require* secure boot to run. This means it won't run on older machines (driving hardware sales, the industry likes that) and means that more manufacturers will fail to include an off switch for the secure boot. If the market doesn't punish them by people avoiding these pre-bricked computers then they will keep doing it. Microsoft will carefully not require OEMs to fail to include an off switch, because that would be anti-competitive. Virtualbox and VMware and so on can include the public keys and provide a secure boot environment, or run unsigned code for developing drivers and running Linux, but you won't be running Linux on the hardware, only virtualised. It is kind of like the current trend for using up 4 primary partitions and not creating extended partitions to make dual booting harder, but this one you potentially can't get round. I can see a time when you have to get a laptop chipped to run Linux like you would a DVD player to do multi region. Alan. -- Libertus Solutions http://libertus.co.uk Yes, agree this is what is likely to happen. It would effectively confine Linux back to a small, techie ghetto - and that's assuming that it will still be possible to buy motherboards without the keys or with an 'off' switch. When I'm talking to voluntary sector orgs they frequently say to me that Microsoft Windows is 'part of the computer' and if you change the OS it won't work properly any more. This could make that current misconception actually true! What's Canonical's view on this? It seems tempting to team up with a producer such as Aleutia to ensure that unlocked PCs are still out there - and with an 'eco' selling point. Paula -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ -- Dr. James Morrissey Senior Research Officer Refugee Studies Centre Department of International Development University of Oxford It seems to me that Secure Boot, in principal, is a Good Thing and that all operating systems should offer it. Its all about how it is implemented and the provision of an opt-out where needed. From what I have read it would be a good thing if Ubuntu came with Secure Boot. So my question is - is this possible? Is there anything to stop Ubuntu and other main stream distros providing it? Tony -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] efi boot, Windows 8 and Linux
On 23 September 2011 16:59, Tony Pursell a...@princeswalk.fsnet.co.ukwrote: On 23 September 2011 16:20, James Morrissey morrissey.jam...@gmail.comwrote: This appeared on the OMGUbuntu site earlier today: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/09/microsoft-attempt-address-windows-8-linux-worries/ james. On 23 September 2011 16:05, gazz pmg...@gmx.co.uk wrote: On Thu, 2011-09-22 at 00:06 +0100, Alan Bell wrote: On 21/09/11 23:29, Bea Groves wrote: Just read the following. Comments? yeah, it is potentially very nasty. To be Windows 8 certified computers will have to be able to do this secure boot thing. Most will include an option to turn it off, exactly like the google chromebooks do, they have a switch to turn off the code signing requirement so you can run unsigned operating systems. The OLPC also has this exact same feature, but you can get a dev key and turn it off. The problem is that some manufacturers might start not bothering to include an off switch. So that would creep in as a set of machines (probably quite mainstream high volume ones) that won't run anything but the pre-installed Windows 8 or above. The big problem is that Windows 9 might *require* secure boot to run. This means it won't run on older machines (driving hardware sales, the industry likes that) and means that more manufacturers will fail to include an off switch for the secure boot. If the market doesn't punish them by people avoiding these pre-bricked computers then they will keep doing it. Microsoft will carefully not require OEMs to fail to include an off switch, because that would be anti-competitive. Virtualbox and VMware and so on can include the public keys and provide a secure boot environment, or run unsigned code for developing drivers and running Linux, but you won't be running Linux on the hardware, only virtualised. It is kind of like the current trend for using up 4 primary partitions and not creating extended partitions to make dual booting harder, but this one you potentially can't get round. I can see a time when you have to get a laptop chipped to run Linux like you would a DVD player to do multi region. Alan. -- Libertus Solutions http://libertus.co.uk Yes, agree this is what is likely to happen. It would effectively confine Linux back to a small, techie ghetto - and that's assuming that it will still be possible to buy motherboards without the keys or with an 'off' switch. When I'm talking to voluntary sector orgs they frequently say to me that Microsoft Windows is 'part of the computer' and if you change the OS it won't work properly any more. This could make that current misconception actually true! What's Canonical's view on this? It seems tempting to team up with a producer such as Aleutia to ensure that unlocked PCs are still out there - and with an 'eco' selling point. Paula -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ -- Dr. James Morrissey Senior Research Officer Refugee Studies Centre Department of International Development University of Oxford It seems to me that Secure Boot, in principal, is a Good Thing and that all operating systems should offer it. Its all about how it is implemented and the provision of an opt-out where needed. From what I have read it would be a good thing if Ubuntu came with Secure Boot. So my question is - is this possible? Is there anything to stop Ubuntu and other main stream distros providing it? No, not at all. The issue would be whether the PC makers would include the distro's key in their machines. There's an analogy with SSL certificates, the component of a website that secures communication between you and it: anyone can produce a certificate for a website. What makes it work is having that certificate correctly identified by your web browser. The same will apply to UEFI. In theory anyone could secure an OS if the firmware is sufficiently open but realistically assurance will mean that it isn't. s/ -- Twitter: @sfgreenwood Is this your sanderling? -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] efi boot, Windows 8 and Linux
When I'm talking to voluntary sector orgs they frequently say to me that Microsoft Windows is 'part of the computer' and if you change the OS it won't work properly any more. This could make that current misconception actually true! Sounds like something we need to address. Paul -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] efi boot, Windows 8 and Linux
On Fri, 2011-09-23 at 18:07 +0100, paul sutton wrote: When I'm talking to voluntary sector orgs they frequently say to me that Microsoft Windows is 'part of the computer' and if you change the OS it won't work properly any more. This could make that current misconception actually true! Sounds like something we need to address. I agree. It's like that Mac and PC, when they mean Mac and Windows. Regards, Juan -- jjm's home: http://www.usebox.net/jjm/ blackshell: http://blackshell.usebox.net/ en_GB@blog: http://engbblog.wordpress.com/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] efi boot, Windows 8 and Linux
On 23/09/11 18:43, Juan J. Martínez wrote: On Fri, 2011-09-23 at 18:07 +0100, paul sutton wrote: When I'm talking to voluntary sector orgs they frequently say to me that Microsoft Windows is 'part of the computer' and if you change the OS it won't work properly any more. This could make that current misconception actually true! Sounds like something we need to address. I agree. It's like that Mac and PC, when they mean Mac and Windows. Regards, Juan Not to mention saying IE to mean the whole internet, getting MS word mixed up with Windows and a whole load more oddities which shows how bad teaching is and that is both adult ed and i guess schools to some extent. Paul -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] efi boot, Windows 8 and Linux
Hi! You can say that again! The biggest problem I have is to try to get people to distinguish between 'Microsoft skills' and 'computer skills' - and that's a huge uphill struggle. The problem is: it's a situation exacerbated by the fact that the whole education sector is virtually a 'Windows-only' zone. Humph! On 23/09/11 18:47, paul sutton wrote: Not to mention saying IE to mean the whole internet, getting MS word mixed up with Windows and a whole load more oddities which shows how bad teaching is and that is both adult ed and i guess schools to some extent. Paul -- Beatrix E. Groves BA Hons (Educ) LCGI MAPTT MIFL QTLS President, Institute for Learning (IfL) General Secretary, Association of Part-Time Tutors (APTT) ~~ Email: beagro...@gmail.com Web:http://www.beagroves.net Blog: http://beagroves.tumblr.com ~~ Random Quote of the Day (chosen by my computer) - We find that at present the human race is divided into one wise man, nine knaves, and ninety fools out of every hundred. That is, by an optimistic observer. The nine knaves assemble themselves under the banner of the most knavish among them, and become 'politicians'; the wise man stands out, because he knows himself to be hopelessly outnumbered, and devotes himself to poetry, mathematics, or philosophy; while the ninety fools plod off under the banners of the nine villains, according to fancy, into the labyrinths of chicanery, malice and warfare. It is pleasant to have command, observes Sancho Panza, even over a flock of sheep, and that is why the politicians raise their banners. It is, moreover, the same thing for the sheep whatever the banner. If it is democracy, then the nine knaves will become members of parliament; if fascism, they will become party leaders; if communism, commissars. Nothing will be different, except the name. The fools will be still fools, the knaves still leaders, the results still exploitation. As for the wise man, his lot will be much the same under any ideology. Under democracy he will be encouraged to starve to death in a garret, under fascism he will be put in a concentration camp, under communism he will be liquidated. — T.H. White -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Marketing [Was Re: efi boot, Windows 8 and Linux]
Paul Sutton wrote: i can show kids my netbook adn tell them about alternatives but unless there is a proper support structure out there its going to be hard to get them to try it, as they need help when they need it even with windows floss software. Linux has better end-user support than does Windows; you can buy support directly from the organisation that produces it and there's proper, structured (sort-of) community support, too - Ubuntu might well be aiming for one support channel for every possible medium, but at least it's *one* and it's official. The notion of Windows being better supported tends to be based on the fact that everybody knows someone who uses Windows and knows how to fix it, which isn't really a proper support structure, but is a very good reason to buy Windows. -- Avi -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Marketing [Was Re: efi boot, Windows 8 and Linux]
On 23/09/11 19:40, Avi Greenbury wrote: Paul Sutton wrote: i can show kids my netbook adn tell them about alternatives but unless there is a proper support structure out there its going to be hard to get them to try it, as they need help when they need it even with windows floss software. Linux has better end-user support than does Windows; you can buy support directly from the organisation that produces it and there's proper, structured (sort-of) community support, too - Ubuntu might well be aiming for one support channel for every possible medium, but at least it's *one* and it's official. The notion of Windows being better supported tends to be based on the fact that everybody knows someone who uses Windows and knows how to fix it, which isn't really a proper support structure, but is a very good reason to buy Windows. We just need to get this message across to people in the best way possible. I guess a lot of people know I use Linux but they also know a lot of people who use windows, problem is I can't solve all issues and there are people on the lug better placed t help fix problems, and its getting people in touch with someone who can and is willing to help, that is a big sticking point. I hear about people having issues with windows, but they are so tied in to one or two applications or one way of doing stuff, are unwilling to learn new stuff (usually time is against them) they stick with windows till the next virus or other problem comes along and they need it fixed again, and so the cycle carries on. Paul -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] efi boot, Windows 8 and Linux
Gordon Burgess-Parker wrote: Now whether Windows 8 will even be a factor in this I don't know. Certainly AFAIK (as above) many large corporations have not yet upgraded to Windows 7, even though it's been out for nearly two years now and XP comes out of support in 30 months As time goes on, the chances of them upgrading *increase*. Nobody upgraded to Vista, some to 7, more will upgrade to 8. u Perhaps some of those upgrades will be to something other than Windows, but I suspect most places still tied to XP will also be tied to things that speak Exchange and Active Dirctory and MSOOXML fluently. -- Avi -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] efi boot, Windows 8 and Linux
Juan J. wrote: On Thu, 2011-09-22 at 13:06 +0100, Gordon Burgess-Parker wrote: On 22/09/2011 00:06, Alan Bell wrote: On 21/09/11 23:29, Bea Groves wrote: Just read the following. Comments? yeah, it is potentially very nasty. Even more so when the next step could be to require signed keys to run applications - then MS could control the hardware and the OS AND what people actually run on it. Don't you think laws regulating anti-competitive conduct will prevent that to happen? Why? It's not anti-competetive per se, it's just something that can be used to be anti-competetive. Banning signed bootloaders on the grounds of competition would be akin to banning torrents on the grounds of piracy. That's not to say there aren't other reasons to ban it, though. -- Avi -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] efi boot, Windows 8 and Linux
On 23/09/11 20:25, Avi Greenbury wrote: Juan J. wrote: On Thu, 2011-09-22 at 13:06 +0100, Gordon Burgess-Parker wrote: On 22/09/2011 00:06, Alan Bell wrote: On 21/09/11 23:29, Bea Groves wrote: Just read the following. Comments? yeah, it is potentially very nasty. Even more so when the next step could be to require signed keys to run applications - then MS could control the hardware and the OS AND what people actually run on it. Don't you think laws regulating anti-competitive conduct will prevent that to happen? Why? It's not anti-competetive per se, it's just something that can be used to be anti-competetive. Banning signed bootloaders on the grounds of competition would be akin to banning torrents on the grounds of piracy. That's not to say there aren't other reasons to ban it, though. Well as we can't get it banned easily lets find a way to educate people properly about it so they know about it and how it may affect them Paul -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] efi boot, Windows 8 and Linux
On 23/09/11 20:33, paul sutton wrote: On 23/09/11 20:25, Avi Greenbury wrote: Juan J. wrote: On Thu, 2011-09-22 at 13:06 +0100, Gordon Burgess-Parker wrote: On 22/09/2011 00:06, Alan Bell wrote: On 21/09/11 23:29, Bea Groves wrote: Just read the following. Comments? yeah, it is potentially very nasty. Even more so when the next step could be to require signed keys to run applications - then MS could control the hardware and the OS AND what people actually run on it. Don't you think laws regulating anti-competitive conduct will prevent that to happen? Why? It's not anti-competetive per se, it's just something that can be used to be anti-competetive. Banning signed bootloaders on the grounds of competition would be akin to banning torrents on the grounds of piracy. That's not to say there aren't other reasons to ban it, though. Well as we can't get it banned easily lets find a way to educate people properly about it so they know about it and how it may affect them Paul Is that not anti-competitive in the same way that the supposed 'secret API' was deemed anti-competitive (although that did turn out to not exist). -- *John Oliver* jp.oli...@ntlworld.com -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [marketing] A lesson in marketing - Congo condoms - Ted5 minute video
On Thu, 2011-09-22 at 22:15 +0100, alan c wrote: On 22/09/11 18:06, paul sutton wrote: If a friend complains their computer has a virus, ask what is a virus?,and say you use Ubuntu and never have that issue, offer to dual boot their computer or at least boot a live cd and recover that essential file, they a) leave happy, b) get a good impression of how ubuntu (or any linux) is a good thing, and c) hopefully ask for it to be installed. The timescales in such a situation can be quite long. I am in contact with a lot of Windows users at perpetual novice level, and if they know me they seem to regard my knowledge with some awe (which is touching because as Ubuntu users go I am on the novice side of experienced). However, people -simply- -do- -not- -believe- what I say and what others say, about, say Ubuntu. I have a friend who I worked with before we both retired some years ago. He was/is a mathematician and engineer. He was senior to me in technical matters. It took literally *several* years, until his XP laptop ground to a halt, before he was prepared to accept my help to make a dual boot machine. He now uses only the Ubuntu os. The turning point was a conversation, when I (again) (tactfully) mentioned the Ubuntu alternative. He suddenly said 'I HATE' Windows! He said he had another friend who was saying the *opposite* to what I was saying. That if he could not do Windows, then Linux was NOT for him (the 'L' word again) He trusted us both. And had a conflict of direction. His existing XP at least was familiar. So, we live in a situation where only complete desperation will prompt users to risk change. Then they need a lot of hand holding because at every turn they are faced with a Windows user prompting them to stay in the club. This is more than a monopoly of retail supply, there is a long term effect, fed I guess from Microsoft and their very skillful marketing people. There is psychology and emotional issues. Part of the effect arises from users being and feeling unable to understand or control what happens. They get to feel helpless. Things go wrong as they try to go through hoops, and they get frightened. And stay frightened. They get so un confident that it really takes an exceptional friend and exceptional situation to prompt a change. -- alan cocks Ubuntu user I have managed one convert and one potential convert in the last two weeks by using the try it on an old machine approach. The first person is a member of a computer club where I help out. He had an old Acer laptop that originally had Vista on it, and ran so slow that it was almost unusable. 48 hours after installing 10.04 he sent me an email saying he was delighted with the revitalised machine and asked for me to put Ubuntu on his desktop and also on his Win7 net book, which he says runs too slow. The second potential convert is a young work colleague who is attempting his own install of 11.04 this weekend. I will have to wait until Monday to find out how successful he was. I hope that they will tell others about their experiences and encourage them to give Ubuntu a try. I also have a spare laptop running 11.04 that I offer to loan to people who express an interest in Ubuntu so that they can try it at full speed with no perceived risk to their own machines. I find that Windows users do not fully trust the live CD concept; to them a CD = Install Software. It helps to get past their initial fears. Barry T -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [marketing] A lesson in marketing - Congo condoms -Ted5 minute video
As someone who made the switch under a year ago, I can testify the amount you learn. I used to know little to nothing, but not - not an expert, but I know a substantial amount, learning for some people can be the switching point. Nick -- -Original Message- From: Barry Titterton barry.titter...@mail.adsl4less.com Sender: ubuntu-uk-boun...@lists.ubuntu.com Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 22:55:23 To: UK Ubuntu Talkubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com Reply-To: UK Ubuntu Talk ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: [ubuntu-uk] [marketing] A lesson in marketing - Congo condoms - Ted5 minute video On Thu, 2011-09-22 at 22:15 +0100, alan c wrote: On 22/09/11 18:06, paul sutton wrote: If a friend complains their computer has a virus, ask what is a virus?,and say you use Ubuntu and never have that issue, offer to dual boot their computer or at least boot a live cd and recover that essential file, they a) leave happy, b) get a good impression of how ubuntu (or any linux) is a good thing, and c) hopefully ask for it to be installed. The timescales in such a situation can be quite long. I am in contact with a lot of Windows users at perpetual novice level, and if they know me they seem to regard my knowledge with some awe (which is touching because as Ubuntu users go I am on the novice side of experienced). However, people -simply- -do- -not- -believe- what I say and what others say, about, say Ubuntu. I have a friend who I worked with before we both retired some years ago. He was/is a mathematician and engineer. He was senior to me in technical matters. It took literally *several* years, until his XP laptop ground to a halt, before he was prepared to accept my help to make a dual boot machine. He now uses only the Ubuntu os. The turning point was a conversation, when I (again) (tactfully) mentioned the Ubuntu alternative. He suddenly said 'I HATE' Windows! He said he had another friend who was saying the *opposite* to what I was saying. That if he could not do Windows, then Linux was NOT for him (the 'L' word again) He trusted us both. And had a conflict of direction. His existing XP at least was familiar. So, we live in a situation where only complete desperation will prompt users to risk change. Then they need a lot of hand holding because at every turn they are faced with a Windows user prompting them to stay in the club. This is more than a monopoly of retail supply, there is a long term effect, fed I guess from Microsoft and their very skillful marketing people. There is psychology and emotional issues. Part of the effect arises from users being and feeling unable to understand or control what happens. They get to feel helpless. Things go wrong as they try to go through hoops, and they get frightened. And stay frightened. They get so un confident that it really takes an exceptional friend and exceptional situation to prompt a change. -- alan cocks Ubuntu user I have managed one convert and one potential convert in the last two weeks by using the try it on an old machine approach. The first person is a member of a computer club where I help out. He had an old Acer laptop that originally had Vista on it, and ran so slow that it was almost unusable. 48 hours after installing 10.04 he sent me an email saying he was delighted with the revitalised machine and asked for me to put Ubuntu on his desktop and also on his Win7 net book, which he says runs too slow. The second potential convert is a young work colleague who is attempting his own install of 11.04 this weekend. I will have to wait until Monday to find out how successful he was. I hope that they will tell others about their experiences and encourage them to give Ubuntu a try. I also have a spare laptop running 11.04 that I offer to loan to people who express an interest in Ubuntu so that they can try it at full speed with no perceived risk to their own machines. I find that Windows users do not fully trust the live CD concept; to them a CD = Install Software. It helps to get past their initial fears. Barry T -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
