Re: [ubuntu-uk] Kubuntu vs Ubuntu for new users
Chris Rowson wrote: Scrase, Eddie wrote: I'm probably stating the obvious here, but if the two bars are a problem, you can always move everything from the top bar down to the bottom and then delete the top bar (which is what I have done on my installation). You can also replace the Gnome Applications/Places/System menus with a combined menu along the lines of KDE or Windows, although as far as I'm aware, you can't add text label to it. It might be quicker to add the bottom applets to the top panel, delete the bottom panel, and them move the top panel to the bottom. YMMV Yeah, I did think of that ;-) The problem is however, although it's easy to move the panel/s, what happens when the user creates another user for another family member on their PC? I'm kinda trying to compare these DE's on their out of the box environment. I suppose, imagine that you're installing using the OEM option. If you're trying to solve the problem of new accounts needing the same customization, it can be done, though it not a drop-and-drag operation. You need to delve into where the default gnome/KDE configuration files live and do a bit of editing on them, but don't blame me if you make a mistake end up with a non-operational system. I played with the gnome-main-menu package too (forgot about that till you reminded me) and quite liked that http://www.justuber.com/blog/2007/03/11/suse-style-gnome-menu-on-ubuntu-edgy/ Cheers Chris -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Kubuntu vs Ubuntu for new users
On 17/09/2007, Chris Rowson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Scrase, Eddie wrote: I'm probably stating the obvious here, but if the two bars are a With reference to the 2-bars setup, My mother-in-law uses Ubuntu (on my recommendation!), and the first thing she mentioned when I asked her how she was finding it (we are talking 6 months ago when I first got her using it) was how much clearer it was. She likes having the 2 bars. The stuff at the bottom is the stuff she has open, and the stuff at the top is stuff she can open. Bit of background, she had a storke at the back end of last year, and still gets a bit confused with things, so the simpler the better! She also prefers the gnome-main-menu to the default, but I think that is because she only uses a half dozen programs, so gnome-main-menu makes it easy to find them. -- Steve Garton http://www.sheepeatingtaz.co.uk -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Kubuntu vs Ubuntu for new users
It all comes down to personal preference I guess, but the nice thing about Gnome is that it hides the complexity of the system from the user unless they actively go searching for it - and to someone for whom a computer is effectively just a web-browser and a platform for email and IM clients that's no bad thing IMHO. That describes the last 3 people i've installed Ubuntu for perfectly - they don't even have any music collections to speak of, never mind loads of video files (don't ask me how anyone can live without music - I know I can't...) Pete On 18/09/2007, Stephen Garton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 17/09/2007, Chris Rowson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Scrase, Eddie wrote: I'm probably stating the obvious here, but if the two bars are a With reference to the 2-bars setup, My mother-in-law uses Ubuntu (on my recommendation!), and the first thing she mentioned when I asked her how she was finding it (we are talking 6 months ago when I first got her using it) was how much clearer it was. She likes having the 2 bars. The stuff at the bottom is the stuff she has open, and the stuff at the top is stuff she can open. Bit of background, she had a storke at the back end of last year, and still gets a bit confused with things, so the simpler the better! She also prefers the gnome-main-menu to the default, but I think that is because she only uses a half dozen programs, so gnome-main-menu makes it easy to find them. -- Steve Garton http://www.sheepeatingtaz.co.uk -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ -- 'In letters of gold, on a snow-white kite, I will write I Love You! And send it soaring high above you, for all to read!' RIP Billy M 1957-1997 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Kubuntu vs Ubuntu for new users
I'm probably stating the obvious here, but if the two bars are a problem, you can always move everything from the top bar down to the bottom and then delete the top bar (which is what I have done on my installation). You can also replace the Gnome Applications/Places/System menus with a combined menu along the lines of KDE or Windows, although as far as I'm aware, you can't add text label to it. So far I'm finding KDE seems to be a bit more responsive and erm... sharper than gnome, but it doesn't seem to be as solid. I've found myself experiencing more application crashes in kde although as I'm using the tribe 5 release of 7.10 it could be because of that. Some time ago I read an article where someone did a comparison of the memory usage of Gnome, KDE, and XFCE. Gnome used more memory that KDE, which may explain why KDE seems more responsive than Gnome. For what it's worth, XFCE was significantly better than either Gnome or KDE, and I have to say that I do like XFCE (and have it running on a very old Toshiba laptop). There seem to be more options for configuration in KDE, but I'm not so sure that new users would use them, and that they may get a bit tied up in them. Gnome layout seems a bit more sane, and I imagine it makes more sense to a new user. Despite KDE being more customisable, I do personally like the simplicity of Gnome. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Kubuntu vs Ubuntu for new users
Scrase, Eddie wrote: I'm probably stating the obvious here, but if the two bars are a problem, you can always move everything from the top bar down to the bottom and then delete the top bar (which is what I have done on my installation). You can also replace the Gnome Applications/Places/System menus with a combined menu along the lines of KDE or Windows, although as far as I'm aware, you can't add text label to it. It might be quicker to add the bottom applets to the top panel, delete the bottom panel, and them move the top panel to the bottom. YMMV -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Kubuntu vs Ubuntu for new users
Scrase, Eddie wrote: I'm probably stating the obvious here, but if the two bars are a problem, you can always move everything from the top bar down to the bottom and then delete the top bar (which is what I have done on my installation). You can also replace the Gnome Applications/Places/System menus with a combined menu along the lines of KDE or Windows, although as far as I'm aware, you can't add text label to it. It might be quicker to add the bottom applets to the top panel, delete the bottom panel, and them move the top panel to the bottom. YMMV Yeah, I did think of that ;-) The problem is however, although it's easy to move the panel/s, what happens when the user creates another user for another family member on their PC? I'm kinda trying to compare these DE's on their out of the box environment. I suppose, imagine that you're installing using the OEM option. I played with the gnome-main-menu package too (forgot about that till you reminded me) and quite liked that http://www.justuber.com/blog/2007/03/11/suse-style-gnome-menu-on-ubuntu-edgy/ Cheers Chris -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Kubuntu vs Ubuntu for new users
Chris Rowson wrote: I promise, I'm not trolling! I've been moving users across from Windows to Linux for a while now, with - on the large - reasonable success. Because I use Gnome, and don't have much experience of using KDE, I've just always installed Ubuntu by default and not really given Kubuntu the time of day. Lately, I've demonstrated Ubuntu to some real computer novices who've commented why is the start button at the top, and why are there two bars at the top and bottom of the screen, who have then shaken their heads in disapproval at this deviation from the Windows norm! Kubuntu, I notice is much more similar to the interface they know and love, so it'd make sense that it'd be the best choice for migrating users from Windows. Is this true? Should I try using Kubuntu as novice users first Linux distro? I have installed kde distros for new users who own the machines, and who will be supported personally by me as a friend. I use kde myself although not exclusively, and I still prefer it after a few years of being a newbie. My personal preference is based in its feature rich menus. I tend to recommend it to real windows based newcomers who are intending to go it alone because it looks a bit more like the windows layout initially, and - the menus are feature rich. I believe there is probably slightly less need for command line use initially with kubuntu for example. (versions 7.04, say). With my current experience level and modes of use I am more ready to appreciate gmone, and I use it more now than I used to. I have a installed a few machines for a local charity - with edubuntu - (gnome) - and the users have not had any difficulty at all. However, I will personally have to work harder to manage them because I have always preferred a non cl approach. It is not the end of the world though. I note with special interest that a number of apparently most popular distros are kde based. Suse used to be kde by default, with an easy choice of gnome, there is now pclinuxos, mepis, and maybe others. This is not much of an analysis, but my impression is that kubuntu takes the user a little further away from the command line at least initially, than ubuntu does. I still suggest kubuntu to real newcomers who will have no LUG support or seem as if they will shun cl, for that reason. -- alan cocks Kubuntu user#10391 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Kubuntu vs Ubuntu for new users
On 9/15/07, Chris Rowson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I promise, I'm not trolling! It's unavoidable when you mention KDE and GNOME in the same email :) Lately, I've demonstrated Ubuntu to some real computer novices who've commented why is the start button at the top, and why are there two bars at the top and bottom of the screen, who have then shaken their heads in disapproval at this deviation from the Windows norm! Happens to me too :) Kubuntu, I notice is much more similar to the interface they know and love, so it'd make sense that it'd be the best choice for migrating users from Windows. Is this true? Should I try using Kubuntu as novice users first Linux distro? I tried this with my Dad, also after thinking Kubuntu would better suit a Windows user. A week later I was installing Ubuntu, with GNOME, over the top. Some of KDE's quirks got on his nerves a bit. He has been happy with GNOME (despite being a Windows user (*developer*) for most of his life, and reluctant to learn anything else). Comments? Also on the family PC I installed Xubuntu, which, when the menu is moved to the lower left, and renamed Start, most barely noticed any change (already used to FF and OpenOffice). GNOME does not allow you to set any text for the single-icon main menu. Xfce is simple, clean, and quite fast. The only problem is (well, when I last used it, Edgy) it lacks all the supporting apps that Ubuntu/GNOME has. For example until Edgy, it was required to install GNOME's printer manager to add a printer using a GUI. Still, it is definitely worth a look so you can see for yourself. Matthew. PS. I have been laughed at for being both a developer and a GNOME user. To each his own! :) -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Kubuntu vs Ubuntu for new users
definitely worth a look so you can see for yourself. Matthew. I thought that might be worth a bash Matthew, I've just installed Kubuntu Gutsy Tribe 5 to see what all of the fuss is about. In the past I've only tried installing kubuntu-desktop over the top of gnome. First impressions are that menus seem more cluttered, but I've got to say I'm not minding it so far. Chris -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Kubuntu vs Ubuntu for new users
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 15/09/2007, Chris Rowson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: definitely worth a look so you can see for yourself. Matthew. I thought that might be worth a bash Matthew, I've just installed Kubuntu Gutsy Tribe 5 to see what all of the fuss is about. In the past I've only tried installing kubuntu-desktop over the top of gnome. First impressions are that menus seem more cluttered, but I've got to say I'm not minding it so far. I think this is definitely one for personal preference. I think that Kubuntu and kde have a lot to offer. However I personally prefer gnome. This isn't because I'm some numpty like some people would insist but because it works the way I expect it to. This is definitely a suck and see situation. Personally I recommend the Ubuntu family and tell people to check out the screen shots and see which they prefer. - -- Seek That Thy Might Know -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: http://firegpg.tuxfamily.org iD8DBQFG7CrkX4FYB1hgGOIRAtP4AJ9ryl22gsIZAUzBQYTSie28+3937gCfSxQm avLjzZznvDMtO19tewqM0OE= =mJaI -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Kubuntu vs Ubuntu for new users
I think this is definitely one for personal preference. I think that Kubuntu and kde have a lot to offer. However I personally prefer gnome. This isn't because I'm some numpty like some people would insist but because it works the way I expect it to. This is definitely a suck and see situation. Personally I recommend the Ubuntu family and tell people to check out the screen shots and see which they prefer. So far I'm finding KDE seems to be a bit more responsive and erm... sharper than gnome, but it doesn't seem to be as solid. I've found myself experiencing more application crashes in kde although as I'm using the tribe 5 release of 7.10 it could be because of that. There seem to be more options for configuration in KDE, but I'm not so sure that new users would use them, and that they may get a bit tied up in them. Gnome layout seems a bit more sane, and I imagine it makes more sense to a new user. The voyage of discovery continues! Chris -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
