Re: [ubuntu-uk] pre installed ubuntu laptops?
I just wish that other computer manufacturers did this so customers could see that the Windows licence costs a fair chuck (IIRC a recent quote I did for some PCs with Windows XP Pro, the Windows license was about a third of the cost of the PC, if they'd gone for Ubuntu they could have either saved themselves a whole wad of cash, or updated the spec). Rob I suspect that Dell, HP etc have a cost per software install of practically zero, they get a cheap windows licence, and then recover the cost by installing crapware. This certainly leaves smaller OEMs at a disadvantage. Microsoft would rather give windows away if it stopped a competitor, as has been seen with netbooks. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] pre installed ubuntu laptops?
http://nakedcomputers.org/category/europe/uk/ is also a good friend, do let me know if you find a supplier I don't already have on the list. Alan. alan c wrote: I know that google is a good friend, however it is also nice to talk about such things. I have a friend of a friend who wants to buy a Ubuntu laptop. She has already checked out that the 10 inch mini units have displays which are to small for her elderly eyesight, so the question was passed to me about a conventional laptop, preinstalled with Ubuntu. I see that Dell only now offer a netbook (10V) with Ubuntu, or at least I could not find anything else and their online sales chatline confirmed this. I asked Novatec sales if they knew of any of their laptops which would run ok fully with ubuntu, but they said they did not know and had no information, but did know they did not have any linux support including any drivers. I also asked Novatech sales if I would be allowed to try ubuntu on one of their display units - I am close to the Reading showroom - but they said I would not be allowed. Sad, because I would have liked to support both Dell and Novatech, but I do not want any guessing, I need good information. I am aware of www.linuxemporium.co.uk and this is an obvious possibility. Any comments please? -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] pre installed ubuntu laptops?
Alan Bell wrote: http://nakedcomputers.org/category/europe/uk/ is also a good friend, do let me know if you find a supplier I don't already have on the list. here's one: (Can't vouch for it...) EfficientPC http://www.efficientpc.co.uk/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] pre installed ubuntu laptops?
Gordon wrote: Alan Bell wrote: http://nakedcomputers.org/category/europe/uk/ is also a good friend, do let me know if you find a supplier I don't already have on the list. here's one: (Can't vouch for it...) EfficientPC http://www.efficientpc.co.uk/ Another option, not sure if you'd thought of is to have a look at laptops in the right price range and then search online to see if anyone has had any problems with Ubuntu. I did that when choosing a laptop. I was going to go for an eiSystem laptop from PC World for about £300 but found it had god awful Linux support so instead I got my little Acer Aspire 2920 (with 12.1 widescreen screen so bigger than a netbook but small enough that it is compact and easy to carry around, and it has a pretty good spec besides). Only issue is the Windows refund. I know Acer do offer a Windows refund but it requires sending the laptop to their service centre in Plymouth. Personally I kept Windows (despite the fact the service centre is about a 40 mile round trip from where I live so I could have dropped it off). Rob -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] pre installed ubuntu laptops?
2009/6/9 Rob Beard r...@esdelle.co.uk: Another option, not sure if you'd thought of is to have a look at laptops in the right price range and then search online to see if anyone has had any problems with Ubuntu. I did that when choosing a laptop. I was going to go for an eiSystem laptop from PC World for about £300 but found it had god awful Linux support so instead I got my little Acer Aspire 2920 (with 12.1 widescreen screen so bigger than a netbook but small enough that it is compact and easy to carry around, and it has a pretty good spec besides). Only issue is the Windows refund. I know Acer do offer a Windows refund but it requires sending the laptop to their service centre in Plymouth. Personally I kept Windows (despite the fact the service centre is about a 40 mile round trip from where I live so I could have dropped it off). Rob Dell will refund the cost of Windows without you having to send anything off. But I guess the OP was looking for an Ubuntu pre-installed machine in order to send a message to the manufacture showing that there is a demand for such a thing. Cheers, Andrew -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] pre installed ubuntu laptops?
Andrew Turner wrote: Dell will refund the cost of Windows without you having to send anything off. But I guess the OP was looking for an Ubuntu pre-installed machine in order to send a message to the manufacture showing that there is a demand for such a thing. Cheers, Andrew Yeah seems to be easier said than done unfortunately. Rob -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] pre installed ubuntu laptops?
Gordon wrote: Alan Bell wrote: http://nakedcomputers.org/category/europe/uk/ is also a good friend, do let me know if you find a supplier I don't already have on the list. here's one: (Can't vouch for it...) EfficientPC http://www.efficientpc.co.uk/ already got them http://nakedcomputers.org/efficientpc/ I really like the look of some of their hardware. Alan. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] pre installed ubuntu laptops - now MS refunds...
Dell will refund the cost of Windows without you having to send anything off. But I guess the OP was looking for an Ubuntu pre-installed machine in order to send a message to the manufacture showing that there is a demand for such a thing. Cheers, Andrew Let's be clear here, Dell will only refund your MS license fee if you bought a PC/laptop for home, rather than business. I had this problem, as have a few other people. If you're buying a Toshiba, forget it. The ones I bought last week all came with a dirty great sticker sealing the box stating that the computer/software enclosed come as a complete unit and won't be spilt. If you don't like it tough. Lee -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] pre installed ubuntu laptops?
Andrew Turner wrote: 2009/6/9 Rob Beard r...@esdelle.co.uk: Yeah seems to be easier said than done unfortunately. Rob I've done it myself a couple of months ago. All I had to do was email Dell support, stating that I was unable to accept the EULA that comes with Vista, and they refunded me the money straight away. Cheers, Andrew I was talking about getting a laptop with Ubuntu pre-installed rather than getting a refund. If I was to get a machine from Dell and didn't need the copy of Windows then I'd also go for a refund. Rob -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] pre installed ubuntu laptops - now MS refunds...
LeeGroups wrote: Dell will refund the cost of Windows without you having to send anything off. But I guess the OP was looking for an Ubuntu pre-installed machine in order to send a message to the manufacture showing that there is a demand for such a thing. Cheers, Andrew Let's be clear here, Dell will only refund your MS license fee if you bought a PC/laptop for home, rather than business. I had this problem, as have a few other people. If you're buying a Toshiba, forget it. The ones I bought last week all came with a dirty great sticker sealing the box stating that the computer/software enclosed come as a complete unit and won't be spilt. If you don't like it tough. Lee hmm, maybe I should start collecting photos of such anti-competitive practices in a hall of shame on the nakedcomputers.org site. I don't suppose you have the box still do you? Alan. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] pre installed ubuntu laptops?
2009/6/9 Rob Beard r...@esdelle.co.uk: I was talking about getting a laptop with Ubuntu pre-installed rather than getting a refund. If I was to get a machine from Dell and didn't need the copy of Windows then I'd also go for a refund. Rob Ah, sorry. Misunderstood you. I did ask Dell a while back if they were going to expand their Ubuntu range again, but they didn't seem to know ;) -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] pre installed ubuntu laptops - now MS refunds...
Dell will refund the cost of Windows without you having to send anything off. But I guess the OP was looking for an Ubuntu pre-installed machine in order to send a message to the manufacture showing that there is a demand for such a thing. Cheers, Andrew Let's be clear here, Dell will only refund your MS license fee if you bought a PC/laptop for home, rather than business. I had this problem, as have a few other people. If you're buying a Toshiba, forget it. The ones I bought last week all came with a dirty great sticker sealing the box stating that the computer/software enclosed come as a complete unit and won't be spilt. If you don't like it tough. Lee hmm, maybe I should start collecting photos of such anti-competitive practices in a hall of shame on the nakedcomputers.org site. I don't suppose you have the box still do you? Still, have the box, yes. But I was so angry at the time, I got my phone out and took a photo... I've emailed it to you. Lee -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] pre installed ubuntu laptops?
Alan Bell wrote: Gordon wrote: Alan Bell wrote: http://nakedcomputers.org/category/europe/uk/ is also a good friend, do let me know if you find a supplier I don't already have on the list. here's one: (Can't vouch for it...) EfficientPC http://www.efficientpc.co.uk/ already got them http://nakedcomputers.org/efficientpc/ I really like the look of some of their hardware. Efficientpc: anyone here been a customer or have any feedback please? The friend who is a possible customer has emailed them with a question about a virginmedia usb mobile dongle and has received a fast very useful reply - positive one. So they are being appreciated so far. -- alan cocks Ubuntu user #10391 Linux user #360648 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] pre installed ubuntu laptops?
Andrew Turner wrote: 2009/6/9 Rob Beard r...@esdelle.co.uk: Another option, not sure if you'd thought of is to have a look at laptops in the right price range and then search online to see if anyone has had any problems with Ubuntu. I did that when choosing a laptop. I was going to go for an eiSystem laptop from PC World for about £300 but found it had god awful Linux support so instead I got my little Acer Aspire 2920 (with 12.1 widescreen screen so bigger than a netbook but small enough that it is compact and easy to carry around, and it has a pretty good spec besides). Only issue is the Windows refund. I know Acer do offer a Windows refund but it requires sending the laptop to their service centre in Plymouth. Personally I kept Windows (despite the fact the service centre is about a 40 mile round trip from where I live so I could have dropped it off). Rob Dell will refund the cost of Windows without you having to send anything off. But I guess the OP was looking for an Ubuntu pre-installed machine in order to send a message to the manufacture showing that there is a demand for such a thing. It is a situation in the shallow end of a probably a much deeper populist swing away from Windows. The customer is a friend of an elderly non technical friend of mine. My friend found that their existing old laptop was grinding to a halt with XP, was happy to try Ubuntu in earnest. This was a remarkable success, and Ubuntu 8.04.2 ran the machine reasonably fast. It looked like a different machine. A very great difference from the XP experience which was previously moving the person helplessly towards a purchase of a completely new laptop. Seeing the newfound joy of a reincarnated laptop, a friend of the friend found that their own fear of failure with Windows was not valid with Ubuntu, so that friend is now happily seeking to purchase their own and very first computer - laptop. However, it has to be Ubuntu, not Windows. I would gladly install Ubuntu on a new laptop for the friend as long as I could be sure that it would all work after the money was spent. Although there is a strong resistance to paying for a useless Windows tax, and also there is an attraction in supporting the good guys, the main factor is simply lack of information about hardware and its compatibility with - say - ubuntu 9.04. So just nakedness in a laptop is not sufficient for my needs here. -- alan cocks Ubuntu user #10391 Linux user #360648 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] pre installed ubuntu laptops - now MS refunds...
LeeGroups wrote: hmm, maybe I should start collecting photos of such anti-competitive practices in a hall of shame on the nakedcomputers.org site. I don't suppose you have the box still do you? Still, have the box, yes. But I was so angry at the time, I got my phone out and took a photo... I've emailed it to you. Lee wow. That is a very clear notice. Quality Seal Importants Notice: TOSHIBA Corporation (TOSHIBA) and/or its subsidiaries currently sell personal computers with pre-installed Microsoft operating system as computing solution. Please note, notwithstanding anything to the contrary in the documentation accompanying your computer, TOSHIBA and/or its subsidiaries do not accept the return of component parts or bundled software, which have been removed from the PC System. Pro-rata refunds on individual components or bundled software, including the operating system, will not be granted. I think that is going on the front page of naked computers shortly. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] pre installed ubuntu laptops - now MS refunds...
On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 9:43 PM, Alan Bellalan.b...@theopenlearningcentre.com wrote: LeeGroups wrote: hmm, maybe I should start collecting photos of such anti-competitive practices in a hall of shame on the nakedcomputers.org site. I don't suppose you have the box still do you? Still, have the box, yes. But I was so angry at the time, I got my phone out and took a photo... I've emailed it to you. Lee wow. That is a very clear notice. Quality Seal Importants Notice: TOSHIBA Corporation (TOSHIBA) and/or its subsidiaries currently sell personal computers with pre-installed Microsoft operating system as computing solution. Please note, notwithstanding anything to the contrary in the documentation accompanying your computer, TOSHIBA and/or its subsidiaries do not accept the return of component parts or bundled software, which have been removed from the PC System. Pro-rata refunds on individual components or bundled software, including the operating system, will not be granted. I think that is going on the front page of naked computers shortly. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ I wonder who was pulling the strings to get that put on there... -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] pre installed ubuntu laptops - now MS refunds...
wow. That is a very clear notice. Quality Seal Importants Notice: TOSHIBA Corporation (TOSHIBA) and/or its subsidiaries currently sell personal computers with pre-installed Microsoft operating system as computing solution. Please note, notwithstanding anything to the contrary in the documentation accompanying your computer, TOSHIBA and/or its subsidiaries do not accept the return of component parts or bundled software, which have been removed from the PC System. Pro-rata refunds on individual components or bundled software, including the operating system, will not be granted. I think that is going on the front page of naked computers shortly. I wonder who was pulling the strings to get that put on there... I doubt there is a hidden MS agenda there, probably just Toshiba getting fed up of doing the paperwork for these 'freaks' that don't want MS software. Still, on the plus side, to go to that level of effort, they must be having a substantial number of returns... :) Lee -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] pre installed ubuntu laptops?
alan c wrote: It is a situation in the shallow end of a probably a much deeper populist swing away from Windows. The customer is a friend of an elderly non technical friend of mine. My friend found that their existing old laptop was grinding to a halt with XP, was happy to try Ubuntu in earnest. This was a remarkable success, and Ubuntu 8.04.2 ran the machine reasonably fast. It looked like a different machine. A very great difference from the XP experience which was previously moving the person helplessly towards a purchase of a completely new laptop. Seeing the newfound joy of a reincarnated laptop, a friend of the friend found that their own fear of failure with Windows was not valid with Ubuntu, so that friend is now happily seeking to purchase their own and very first computer - laptop. However, it has to be Ubuntu, not Windows. I would gladly install Ubuntu on a new laptop for the friend as long as I could be sure that it would all work after the money was spent. Although there is a strong resistance to paying for a useless Windows tax, and also there is an attraction in supporting the good guys, the main factor is simply lack of information about hardware and its compatibility with - say - ubuntu 9.04. So just nakedness in a laptop is not sufficient for my needs here. I quite agree, nakedcomputers.org doesn't quite fill your need of compatibility assurance with our favorite operating system. The advantage of the naked computers site is that it is an easy concept to communicate and doesn't introduce things people haven't heard of. Imagine the following protest chants: What do we want? Ubuntu Linux pre-installed on documented hardware with Free and Open drivers for all components! When do we want it? Now! erm, ok, maybe 10% of people understood that, and 2% agree with it. Lets try again. What do we want? Naked Computers! When do we want it? Now! With that you have won the hearts and minds of 90% of the population before you have got to the second word. It is a much more campaign-able subject than pure software freedom advocacy. Alan. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] pre installed ubuntu laptops?
Alan Bell wrote: [...] What do we want? Naked Computers! When do we want it? Now! good one! -- alan cocks Ubuntu user #10391 Linux user #360648 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] pre installed ubuntu laptops?
Alan Bell wrote: alan c wrote: It is a situation in the shallow end of a probably a much deeper populist swing away from Windows. The customer is a friend of an elderly non technical friend of mine. My friend found that their existing old laptop was grinding to a halt with XP, was happy to try Ubuntu in earnest. This was a remarkable success, and Ubuntu 8.04.2 ran the machine reasonably fast. It looked like a different machine. A very great difference from the XP experience which was previously moving the person helplessly towards a purchase of a completely new laptop. Seeing the newfound joy of a reincarnated laptop, a friend of the friend found that their own fear of failure with Windows was not valid with Ubuntu, so that friend is now happily seeking to purchase their own and very first computer - laptop. However, it has to be Ubuntu, not Windows. I would gladly install Ubuntu on a new laptop for the friend as long as I could be sure that it would all work after the money was spent. Although there is a strong resistance to paying for a useless Windows tax, and also there is an attraction in supporting the good guys, the main factor is simply lack of information about hardware and its compatibility with - say - ubuntu 9.04. So just nakedness in a laptop is not sufficient for my needs here. I quite agree, nakedcomputers.org doesn't quite fill your need of compatibility assurance with our favorite operating system. The advantage of the naked computers site is that it is an easy concept to communicate and doesn't introduce things people haven't heard of. Imagine the following protest chants: What do we want? Ubuntu Linux pre-installed on documented hardware with Free and Open drivers for all components! When do we want it? Now! erm, ok, maybe 10% of people understood that, and 2% agree with it. Lets try again. What do we want? Naked Computers! When do we want it? Now! With that you have won the hearts and minds of 90% of the population before you have got to the second word. It is a much more campaign-able subject than pure software freedom advocacy. Alan Through my business I sell PCs and servers built to spec, they can be naked, have Linux (or Solaris, *BSD etc) installed on them, hey I'd even put FreeDOS on if thats what the customer wanted, or I'd even put Windows on there if the customer was willing to pay the extra for the Windows license. I'd love to do a range of Linux compatible notebooks but unfortunately the margins on notebooks are so low and I just don't have the funds in the business to buy in a couple of notebooks to confirm if they work or not. It's a shame really as I think it's something the community seem to want. What I do though when I'm fixing PCs and laptops for customers, I generally use an Ubuntu disc to backup any data (one recent one was infected with that god awful XPAntiVirus). I find doing this it's at least possible to find out what does work and what does with regards to hardware and which models are compatible, problem is though half of the machines I get through are maybe 2 or 3 years old. I guess all we can do is keep plugging away. Whenever I sell a PC I let the customer know exactly how much they're paying for Windows if they require/want it, I just wish that other computer manufacturers did this so customers could see that the Windows licence costs a fair chuck (IIRC a recent quote I did for some PCs with Windows XP Pro, the Windows license was about a third of the cost of the PC, if they'd gone for Ubuntu they could have either saved themselves a whole wad of cash, or updated the spec). Rob -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
