Re: [ubuntu-uk] ubuntu in india

[Andres Muniz]

- Mensaje original -
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Hi Stuart,
> 
> Whilst it's a bummer that they don't make every device available with
> every OS combination...
> 
> On 27/06/12 16:09, Stuart Ward wrote:
> > emailing, web browsing, home use etc, 15:46:24          Agent
> > Naresh_Takemalla I can get you a quote done for a latitude laptop
> > with out OS.
> 
> ^^ that is excellent news. You just chat to the guy and he says "Yes,
> we can do a laptop with no OS". I mean, no good for end users who
> don't like installing OSs, but for someone such as yourself, should be
> a doddle. I commend them for offering that option!
> 
> > 15:46:42          Agent      Naresh_Takemalla Would you prefer 15.6 inch or
> > 14.1 inch screen size laptop? 15:46:42          Customer      Stuart I was
> > directed to dell because they are supposed to support Ubuntu 
> > now that doesn't sound like support.
> 
> Was that how you left the conversation?
> 
> Cheers,
> - -- 
> Alan Pope
> Engineering Manager

cutting out mozilla private key***

Agreed I ended a similar conversation with an adobe support requesting them to 
write down feedback (i wanted photoshop). Same with virgin media (wanted their 
free programs). I would think it is better to end in a positive tone. "Ok 
thanks, I'll think about it, can I provide feedback?" Might go down a black 
hole but it is recorded. 

Other than that, agreed, having no OS is great! You can then get home support 
for less than £100 a year from canonical (as I recall). That is around the same 
price as renewing your antivirus every year with windows. Though i have heard 
w7 and w8 have there essential antivirus bundled in or do not need antivirus 
any more?
Plus Hardware should still have the 1 year warranty? Not the best news but good 
news! Thanks for sharing the chat!

Omgubuntu claim there is an asus netbook around. That seems promising as well. 
Thinkpinguin.com and system76 are still top of my list when i buy a new laptop.
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] ubuntu in india

[Alan Pope]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Stuart,

Whilst it's a bummer that they don't make every device available with
every OS combination...

On 27/06/12 16:09, Stuart Ward wrote:
> emailing, web browsing, home use etc, 15:46:24 Agent
> Naresh_Takemalla I can get you a quote done for a latitude laptop
> with out OS.

^^ that is excellent news. You just chat to the guy and he says "Yes,
we can do a laptop with no OS". I mean, no good for end users who
don't like installing OSs, but for someone such as yourself, should be
a doddle. I commend them for offering that option!

> 15:46:42   Agent   Naresh_Takemalla Would you prefer 15.6 inch or
> 14.1 inch screen size laptop? 15:46:42 CustomerStuart I was
> directed to dell because they are supposed to support Ubuntu 
> now that doesn't sound like support.

Was that how you left the conversation?

Cheers,
- -- 
Alan Pope
Engineering Manager

Canonical - Product Strategy
+44 (0) 7973 620 164
alan.p...@canonical.com
http://ubuntu.com/
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] ubuntu in india

[Stuart Ward]

Log of a chat with the Dell sales:::

Stop CoBrowse   CopyPrint   Exit
 15:33:25CustomerStuart 
Initial Question/Comment: I thought I could get these without Windows
installed, I wnat a Linux laptop
 15:33:30System  System 
https://chatadengine.dell.com/chatadsengine/adengine/Default.aspx?queue=548d9bc6-d20d-474b-a2b2-0fac53ebae9c
 15:33:35System  System 
You are now being connected to an agent. Thank you for using Dell Chat
 15:33:35System  System 
Connected with mario_louis
 15:33:40Agent   mario_louis
Welcome to Dell Chat Sales - Business; this is Mario, your Dell Sales
Advisor. My email address is mario_lo...@dell.com
 15:33:50Agent   mario_louis
Hello Stuart,
 15:34:04Agent   mario_louis
Which laptop are you looking at?
 15:34:23CustomerStuart 
Looking for Linux laptop, I thought you had some without the dreded
Windows installed
 15:35:01CustomerStuart 
Or can I buy any and get a refund on windows
 15:35:30Agent   mario_louis
What would you be using this system for?
 15:36:07CustomerStuart 
http://search.euro.dell.com/results.aspx?s=gen&c=uk&l=en&cs=&k=ubuntu&cat=all&x=0&y=0
Thise show up an a ubuntu search but there is on oprtion the deselect
windows
 15:37:04Agent   mario_louis
You can get the Precision M4600 or the M 6600 with Linux
 15:37:19CustomerStuart 
... ues general email web browsing, etc home use.
 15:37:36CustomerStuart 
Are those the only ones
 15:38:51Agent   mario_louis
Give me 2 mins I will transfer the chat to the expert and he can
advice you better.
 15:39:07System  System 
You are being transferred to another Agent. Please stand by...
 15:39:07System  System 
mario_louis has left this session!
 15:39:11System  System 
You are now being connected to an agent. Thank you for using Dell Chat
 15:39:11System  System 
Connected with Naresh_Takemalla
 15:39:26Agent   Naresh_Takemalla   
Hi Stuart,
 15:39:55CustomerStuart 
Hi
 15:40:42Agent   Naresh_Takemalla   
Yes, apart from Dell Precision M4600 and M6600 Latitude E series
laptops can also be purchased with No OS.
 15:41:01CustomerStuart 
Looking for a Linux laptop... All these are list when I search for ubuntu
http://search.euro.dell.com/results.aspx?s=gen&c=uk&l=en&cs=&k=ubuntu&cat=all&x=0&y=0
 15:41:23CustomerStuart 
But I cant select the operating system to be other than windows
 15:42:03CustomerStuart 
Will you offer a refund for the windows
 15:42:48Agent   Naresh_Takemalla   
Currently Linux is not configurable on any of the Vostro laptops.
 15:43:01CustomerStuart 
Your college only offered the M4600 at £1,000 and an even more
expensive model. pretty poor
 15:43:19Agent   Naresh_Takemalla   
ON latitude and Precisions if we remove OS, there will be marginal
difference in price.
 15:43:20CustomerStuart 
ok Will you offer a refund for no OS
 15:44:02CustomerStuart 
marginal ie less that you have paid Microsoft for it.
 15:44:27CustomerStuart 
and where is the option on the order screen to select No OS
 15:45:14Agent   Naresh_Takemalla   
The option to remove OS is not available it needs to be configured
offline through chat.
 15:46:04Agent   Naresh_Takemalla   
Since you're planning to use the laptop for general office usage like
emailing, web browsing, home use etc,
 15:46:24Agent   Naresh_Takemalla   
I can get you a quote done for a latitude laptop with out OS.
 15:46:42Agent   Naresh_Takemalla   
Would you prefer 15.6 inch or 14.1 inch screen size laptop?
 15:46:42CustomerStuart 
I was directed to dell because they are supposed to support Ubuntu
now that doesn't sound like support.
Send

Stuart

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] ubuntu in india

[Alan Pope]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 22/06/12 11:32, Alan Bell wrote:
> tried clicking through to purchase any of those?
> 

The one I tried yesterday had Ubuntu has an option. Seems the ones I
am trying today don't. Bummer.

Cheers,
- -- 
Alan Pope
Engineering Manager

Canonical - Product Strategy
+44 (0) 7973 620 164
alan.p...@canonical.com
http://ubuntu.com/
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] ubuntu in india

[Liam Proven]

On 22 June 2012 13:39, scoundrel50a  wrote:
>
> I dont know, but what you suggest is only ok if you have a decent connection
> and connection speeds..

It won't be any faster through a PC if you don't have broadband.

If you do have broadband, then connect the iDevice to wifi and it will
download just as fast as via a host computer. Faster, in fact, as the
on-device download is just the files for that device, as opposed to a
generic installer, so it is much smaller.

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] ubuntu in india

[Liam Proven]

On 22 June 2012 13:35, scoundrel50a  wrote:
>
> its funny really, you have taken the time to correct me in great detail, but
> not really attempted to answer any of the questions I have asked..I
> really appreciate the teaching session anyway...

What questions? This thread is a discussion about Ubuntu being
preinstalled on laptops in India.

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] ubuntu in india

[scoundrel50a]

On 22/06/2012 13:09, Andres Muniz wrote:


- Mensaje original -
> Having been somebody who bought an Acer Aspire One linux installed
> computer from pcworld, the kernal installed was Linux Lite, and the guy

got one of those! I used the linpus os for a while. (Fedora 
derivative?) It was the quickest boot I had ever seen and have seen 
since! I changed to ubuntu netbook edition because of the extra (easy 
to install) functionallity brought by softwarecentre.


> told me, they had had almost all the linux laptops returned, biggest
> reasons, couldnt get it to connect to the internet, no support from
> ISPs, cant update/use apple products, same with Android
> product.which is why stopped selling them. Acer Aspire also refused
> to support anybody who installed any other kernel during the warranty
> period...
>
> Nowadays, people will be reluctant to use a computer they cant use 
their

> apple products with.
>
>


i thought that the only thing that does not work is itunes. And drm 
books and drm videos.
New versions of iDevices seem to update without connecting to a 
computer. Or so i was told. A collegue claims to only plug to computer 
to charge. She hates itunes.




I dont know, but what you suggest is only ok if you have a decent 
connection and connection speeds..


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] ubuntu in india

[scoundrel50a]

On 22/06/2012 12:55, Liam Proven wrote:

On 22 June 2012 12:42, scoundrel50a  wrote:

As well as that I hear support for Silverlight is being dropped in Linux,
which I dont understand, as a lot of people are streaming films and things
now on their computers. I know Love Film only works if you have Silverlight,
and wont work in Ubuntu, I havent tried Netflix.if both those dont work,
then that is another thing that goes against having an Ubuntu only
laptop.

Silverlight has not been dropped from Linux. Silverlight /never/ ran on Linux.

There was, for a while, Novell Moonlight, based on the Mono FOSS
re-implementation of .NET. However, Moonlight was only able to emulate
a back-level revision of Silverlight - v2, I think - and did not work
on all sites.

Moonlight is no longer in development, sadly.

But Silverlight is a closed-source, proprietary tech that never worked
on anything except Windows and Mac OS X. Any company that adopts such
a proprietary tool is being foolish and should be told so by as many
customers as possible.




its funny really, you have taken the time to correct me in great detail, 
but not really attempted to answer any of the questions I have 
asked..I really appreciate the teaching session anyway...



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Re: [ubuntu-uk] ubuntu in india

[Andres Muniz]

- Mensaje original -
> Having been somebody who bought an Acer Aspire One linux installed 
> computer from pcworld, the kernal installed was Linux Lite, and the guy 

got one of those! I used the linpus os for a while. (Fedora derivative?) It was 
the quickest boot I  had ever seen and have seen since! I changed to ubuntu 
netbook edition because of the  extra (easy to install) functionallity brought 
by softwarecentre.

> told me, they had had almost all the linux laptops returned, biggest 
> reasons, couldnt get it to connect to the internet, no support from 
> ISPs, cant update/use apple products, same with Android 
> product.which is why stopped selling them. Acer Aspire also refused 
> to support anybody who installed any other kernel during the warranty 
> period...
> 
> Nowadays, people will be reluctant to use a computer they cant use their 
> apple products with.
> 
> 


i thought that the only thing that does not work is itunes. And drm books and 
drm videos. 
New versions of iDevices seem to update without connecting to a computer. Or so 
i was told. A collegue claims to only plug to computer to charge. She hates 
itunes.

> 
> 
> 
> On 22/06/2012 09:16, Alan Pope wrote:
> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> > Hash: SHA1
> > 
> > On 22/06/12 08:09, Chris Fox wrote:
> > > From what I recall, they did for a while and it was a monumental
> > > failure. Perhaps it was before its time, perhaps Dell didn't do a
> > > good enough job of marketing it, but either way I think they did it
> > > for a while and then binned the idea.
> > > 
> > Not true. They still sell Ubuntu laptops. I did a search just
> > yesterday and found about 10 of their models where Ubuntu was an
> > install option.
> > 
> > http://search.euro.dell.com/results.aspx?s=gen&c=uk&l=en&cs=&k=ubuntu&cat=all&x=0&y=0


tried the link but when i choose one it only offers w7 on next page. I'll keep 
trying.



> > 
> > Cheers,
> > - -- 
> > Alan Pope
> > Engineering Manager
> > 
> > Canonical - Product Strategy
> > +44 (0) 7973 620 164
> > alan.p...@canonical.com
> > http://ubuntu.com/
> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
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> > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
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> 
> 
> 
> 

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] ubuntu in india

[Liam Proven]

On 22 June 2012 12:42, scoundrel50a  wrote:
>
> As well as that I hear support for Silverlight is being dropped in Linux,
> which I dont understand, as a lot of people are streaming films and things
> now on their computers. I know Love Film only works if you have Silverlight,
> and wont work in Ubuntu, I havent tried Netflix.if both those dont work,
> then that is another thing that goes against having an Ubuntu only
> laptop.

Silverlight has not been dropped from Linux. Silverlight /never/ ran on Linux.

There was, for a while, Novell Moonlight, based on the Mono FOSS
re-implementation of .NET. However, Moonlight was only able to emulate
a back-level revision of Silverlight - v2, I think - and did not work
on all sites.

Moonlight is no longer in development, sadly.

But Silverlight is a closed-source, proprietary tech that never worked
on anything except Windows and Mac OS X. Any company that adopts such
a proprietary tool is being foolish and should be told so by as many
customers as possible.


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] ubuntu in india

[Liam Proven]

On 22 June 2012 12:35, scoundrel50a  wrote:
>
> Oh, thanks for correcting me.I'll remember next time

I am not being pointlessly pedantic - this sort of thing matters when
you're asking support questions. Precision is really important.

> Also, I think you mean "Linpus Lite", not "Linux Lite".
>
> Yeh, you are right, it was a while ago I got it, and I had never heard of it
> before..

It was quite common for a while. The first Asus Eee netbooks came with
a version of Xandros Linux with the LXDE netbook launcher.

Acer used Linpus Lite instead. It's OK, but the problem is, it's
difficult to update - for instance it has a really elderly version of
Firefox, 2.0 I think, and nothing newer is available.

The last time someone asked me to update their Linpus machine, I found
it much easier to just put Ubuntu on it.

> That all depenends on whether you know what you are doing when you open up
> the file system of the phone..and it still doesnt help with the
> upgrades, if you screw up when you delete a file, that is your operating
> system gone, and you dont get support from your phone company if you tell
> them you screwed up...

The OS is in ROM - you can't just delete files from it. Many people
/want/ to be able to delete stuff - for instance, on my HTC, I had 2
email clients, 2 Twitter clients, a Stocks application I have no use
for and so on. But you can't just delete stuff from ROM. That's why
there is a thriving ROM-modding community, notably CyanogenMod.

> ..only way to get it back is to use Kies..and you
> cant use Kies in Ubuntu...

I had to Google this; despite using several HTC devices, I'd never
heard of it. It emerges that this is a Samsung tool and only applies
to Samsung devices.

Can you not just update over-the-air? That's what I did, the 3 times I
re-flashed my Desire HD. Much easier, & doesn't need a PC at all.

> ...I tried installing iTunes via Wine, it worked
> for about 5 minutes then I havent been able to get it to work since.

This is an issue for Apple iDevice owners. Personally, I use a Mac. :¬)

I think WINE has specific support for certain older versions of iTunes
- you can't just use the latest one. iTunes installs a lot of
background services and things - it is not an easy app for WINE to
run.

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] ubuntu in india

[scoundrel50a]

On 22/06/2012 12:23, Liam Proven wrote:

On 22 June 2012 09:48, scoundrel50a  wrote:

Having been somebody who bought an Acer Aspire One linux installed computer
from pcworld, the kernal installed was Linux Lite, and the guy told me, they
had had almost all the linux laptops returned, biggest reasons, couldnt get
it to connect to the internet, no support from ISPs, cant update/use apple
products, same with Android product.which is why stopped selling them.
Acer Aspire also refused to support anybody who installed any other kernel
during the warranty period...

Nowadays, people will be reluctant to use a computer they cant use their
apple products with.

It's an operating system, not a kernel.

Also, I think you mean "Linpus Lite", not "Linux Lite".

http://www.linpus.com/

Android support is a red herring - Android syncs to the cloud by
default. Connect an Android phone to a Linux machine and you can
transfer files, music, pictures etc. no problem, or at least I could
on my HTC Desire HD.

As well as that I hear support for Silverlight is being dropped in 
Linux, which I dont understand, as a lot of people are streaming films 
and things now on their computers. I know Love Film only works if you 
have Silverlight, and wont work in Ubuntu, I havent tried Netflix.if 
both those dont work, then that is another thing that goes against 
having an Ubuntu only laptop.



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Re: [ubuntu-uk] ubuntu in india

[scoundrel50a]

On 22/06/2012 12:23, Liam Proven wrote:

On 22 June 2012 09:48, scoundrel50a  wrote:

Having been somebody who bought an Acer Aspire One linux installed computer
from pcworld, the kernal installed was Linux Lite, and the guy told me, they
had had almost all the linux laptops returned, biggest reasons, couldnt get
it to connect to the internet, no support from ISPs, cant update/use apple
products, same with Android product.which is why stopped selling them.
Acer Aspire also refused to support anybody who installed any other kernel
during the warranty period...

Nowadays, people will be reluctant to use a computer they cant use their
apple products with.

It's an operating system, not a kernel.

Oh, thanks for correcting me.I'll remember next time


Also, I think you mean "Linpus Lite", not "Linux Lite".
Yeh, you are right, it was a while ago I got it, and I had never heard 
of it before..


http://www.linpus.com/

Android support is a red herring - Android syncs to the cloud by
default. Connect an Android phone to a Linux machine and you can
transfer files, music, pictures etc. no problem, or at least I could
on my HTC Desire HD.

That all depenends on whether you know what you are doing when you open 
up the file system of the phone..and it still doesnt help with the 
upgrades, if you screw up when you delete a file, that is your operating 
system gone, and you dont get support from your phone company if you 
tell them you screwed up.only way to get it back is to use 
Kies..and you cant use Kies in Ubuntu..I tried installing iTunes 
via Wine, it worked for about 5 minutes then I havent been able to get 
it to work since.




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Re: [ubuntu-uk] ubuntu in india

[Liam Proven]

On 22 June 2012 09:48, scoundrel50a  wrote:
> Having been somebody who bought an Acer Aspire One linux installed computer
> from pcworld, the kernal installed was Linux Lite, and the guy told me, they
> had had almost all the linux laptops returned, biggest reasons, couldnt get
> it to connect to the internet, no support from ISPs, cant update/use apple
> products, same with Android product.which is why stopped selling them.
> Acer Aspire also refused to support anybody who installed any other kernel
> during the warranty period...
>
> Nowadays, people will be reluctant to use a computer they cant use their
> apple products with.

It's an operating system, not a kernel.

Also, I think you mean "Linpus Lite", not "Linux Lite".

http://www.linpus.com/

Android support is a red herring - Android syncs to the cloud by
default. Connect an Android phone to a Linux machine and you can
transfer files, music, pictures etc. no problem, or at least I could
on my HTC Desire HD.

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] ubuntu in india

[Alan Bell]

tried clicking through to purchase any of those?

On 22/06/12 09:16, Alan Pope wrote:


Not true. They still sell Ubuntu laptops. I did a search just
yesterday and found about 10 of their models where Ubuntu was an
install option.

http://search.euro.dell.com/results.aspx?s=gen&c=uk&l=en&cs=&k=ubuntu&cat=all&x=0&y=0



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Re: [ubuntu-uk] ubuntu in india

[paul sutton]

On 22/06/12 10:47, richard wrote:
> On 22/06/12 10:08, paul sutton wrote:
>> On 22/06/12 08:09, Chris Fox wrote:
>>> On 22/06/12 07:38, richard wrote:
 On 21/06/12 17:47, john wrote:
> Thought that this may be interesting :
>
> ww.h-online.com/open/news/item/Dell-to-bring-Ubuntu-laptops-to-850-retail-stores-in-India-1620657.html
>
>
>
>
> John
>
 so why not sell them here too ?

>>>  From what I recall, they did for a while and it was a monumental
>>> failure. Perhaps it was before its time, perhaps Dell didn't do a good
>>> enough job of marketing it, but either way I think they did it for a
>>> while and then binned the idea.
>>>
>>> Personally I'd like to see someone try it again. The big stumbling
>>> block, I think, isn't telling Joe Public that Ubuntu is better than
>>> Windows: They can figure that out for themselves, and if they can't
>>> then
>>> maybe for them Ubuntu /isn't/ better.
>>>
>>> What Dell, or PC World, or whoever tries this at a national level needs
>>> to educate your average home user about is that Ubuntu is different,
>>> and
>>> isn't compatible with Windows, and why. I vaguely recall stories from
>>> the last time someone tried selling pre-loaded Linux laptops to Joe
>>> Public that a number of users were returning them as "faulty" because
>>> their Windows software didn't work.
>>>
>>> Good luck to the chap who posted to this list a few days ago trying to
>>> do the same thing - I hope it's a big success.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Chris
>>>
>> I think given when I ask people what Operating system they use they say
>> Windows and some struggle to then tell me what version of windows they
>> are running,  this is going to be a real struggle.
>>
>> I think the Raspberry Pi may perhaps suffer the same fate,  illiterate
>> adults will struggle with them while children and computer literate
>> adults will probably understand what is going on and thrive to a point,
>> then be frustrated at the illiteracy of adults who are then unable to
>> help them progress further and what is worse they won't admit they are
>> clueless on the topic.
>>
>> It won't fail per-se just highlight how bad things have got with regard
>> to peoples technical literacy.
>>
>> Going back on topic the biggest fail was putting linpus on netbooks,  a
>> lot of Linux users hated it, and it really gave a bad impression as to
>> what Linux is.  As for the impression given to non linux users it was
>> probably enough to really put people off.
>>
>> For this to work you NEED local support and this is hard to get,
>> people support windows and know windows and can fix most issues,
>> fixing issues with ubuntu does require the same level of knowledge which
>> for the avg user is lacking,
>>
>> Paul
>>
> I would be happy if they sold them on line with a warning that you
> would get no software support. But last time i asked one of the
> salespeople that pop up when you visit their site  I was told "we
> don't do that", only a few weeks ago.
>
I guess people EXPECT support,  and if you offer something with no
support people won't bother, or ask why.

If i manage to get in to a school as a Teaching assistant I feel i can
make a difference and the fact I know Linux, The rasp PI uses Linux and
the curriculum is changing to cover computer programming I really hope
that will be my foot in the door.  As I have both technical knowledge
and I am good with children which is actually kind of rare or seems to
be,  I just lack the ability to sell my self in an effective way.

Paul


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] ubuntu in india

[richard]

On 22/06/12 10:08, paul sutton wrote:

On 22/06/12 08:09, Chris Fox wrote:

On 22/06/12 07:38, richard wrote:

On 21/06/12 17:47, john wrote:

Thought that this may be interesting :

ww.h-online.com/open/news/item/Dell-to-bring-Ubuntu-laptops-to-850-retail-stores-in-India-1620657.html



John


so why not sell them here too ?


 From what I recall, they did for a while and it was a monumental
failure. Perhaps it was before its time, perhaps Dell didn't do a good
enough job of marketing it, but either way I think they did it for a
while and then binned the idea.

Personally I'd like to see someone try it again. The big stumbling
block, I think, isn't telling Joe Public that Ubuntu is better than
Windows: They can figure that out for themselves, and if they can't then
maybe for them Ubuntu /isn't/ better.

What Dell, or PC World, or whoever tries this at a national level needs
to educate your average home user about is that Ubuntu is different, and
isn't compatible with Windows, and why. I vaguely recall stories from
the last time someone tried selling pre-loaded Linux laptops to Joe
Public that a number of users were returning them as "faulty" because
their Windows software didn't work.

Good luck to the chap who posted to this list a few days ago trying to
do the same thing - I hope it's a big success.

Cheers,
Chris


I think given when I ask people what Operating system they use they say
Windows and some struggle to then tell me what version of windows they
are running,  this is going to be a real struggle.

I think the Raspberry Pi may perhaps suffer the same fate,  illiterate
adults will struggle with them while children and computer literate
adults will probably understand what is going on and thrive to a point,
then be frustrated at the illiteracy of adults who are then unable to
help them progress further and what is worse they won't admit they are
clueless on the topic.

It won't fail per-se just highlight how bad things have got with regard
to peoples technical literacy.

Going back on topic the biggest fail was putting linpus on netbooks,  a
lot of Linux users hated it, and it really gave a bad impression as to
what Linux is.  As for the impression given to non linux users it was
probably enough to really put people off.

For this to work you NEED local support and this is hard to get,
people support windows and know windows and can fix most issues,
fixing issues with ubuntu does require the same level of knowledge which
for the avg user is lacking,

Paul

I would be happy if they sold them on line with a warning that you would 
get no software support. But last time i asked one of the salespeople 
that pop up when you visit their site  I was told "we don't do that", 
only a few weeks ago.


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] ubuntu in india

[scoundrel50a]

On 22/06/2012 09:16, Alan Pope wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 22/06/12 08:09, Chris Fox wrote:

 From what I recall, they did for a while and it was a monumental
failure. Perhaps it was before its time, perhaps Dell didn't do a
good enough job of marketing it, but either way I think they did it
for a while and then binned the idea.


Not true. They still sell Ubuntu laptops. I did a search just
yesterday and found about 10 of their models where Ubuntu was an
install option.

http://search.euro.dell.com/results.aspx?s=gen&c=uk&l=en&cs=&k=ubuntu&cat=all&x=0&y=0

Cheers,
- -- 
Alan Pope

Engineering Manager

Canonical - Product Strategy
+44 (0) 7973 620 164
alan.p...@canonical.com
http://ubuntu.com/
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I have a Galaxy Note that has just been upgraded to Ice Cream Sandwich, 
and you needed to use Kies to upgrade, is there going to be a time when 
Kies could be used on Ubuntu? It would help




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Re: [ubuntu-uk] ubuntu in india

[paul sutton]

On 22/06/12 08:09, Chris Fox wrote:
> On 22/06/12 07:38, richard wrote:
>> On 21/06/12 17:47, john wrote:
>>> Thought that this may be interesting :
>>>
>>> ww.h-online.com/open/news/item/Dell-to-bring-Ubuntu-laptops-to-850-retail-stores-in-India-1620657.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>> so why not sell them here too ?
>>
>
> From what I recall, they did for a while and it was a monumental
> failure. Perhaps it was before its time, perhaps Dell didn't do a good
> enough job of marketing it, but either way I think they did it for a
> while and then binned the idea.
>
> Personally I'd like to see someone try it again. The big stumbling
> block, I think, isn't telling Joe Public that Ubuntu is better than
> Windows: They can figure that out for themselves, and if they can't then
> maybe for them Ubuntu /isn't/ better.
>
> What Dell, or PC World, or whoever tries this at a national level needs
> to educate your average home user about is that Ubuntu is different, and
> isn't compatible with Windows, and why. I vaguely recall stories from
> the last time someone tried selling pre-loaded Linux laptops to Joe
> Public that a number of users were returning them as "faulty" because
> their Windows software didn't work.
>
> Good luck to the chap who posted to this list a few days ago trying to
> do the same thing - I hope it's a big success.
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
>

I think given when I ask people what Operating system they use they say
Windows and some struggle to then tell me what version of windows they
are running,  this is going to be a real struggle.

I think the Raspberry Pi may perhaps suffer the same fate,  illiterate
adults will struggle with them while children and computer literate
adults will probably understand what is going on and thrive to a point, 
then be frustrated at the illiteracy of adults who are then unable to
help them progress further and what is worse they won't admit they are
clueless on the topic. 

It won't fail per-se just highlight how bad things have got with regard
to peoples technical literacy.

Going back on topic the biggest fail was putting linpus on netbooks,  a
lot of Linux users hated it, and it really gave a bad impression as to
what Linux is.  As for the impression given to non linux users it was
probably enough to really put people off. 

For this to work you NEED local support and this is hard to get,  
people support windows and know windows and can fix most issues,  
fixing issues with ubuntu does require the same level of knowledge which
for the avg user is lacking, 

Paul

-- 

--
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http://www.ubuntu.com

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http://www.linkedin.com/pub/paul-sutton/36/595/911


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] ubuntu in india

[scoundrel50a]

Having been somebody who bought an Acer Aspire One linux installed 
computer from pcworld, the kernal installed was Linux Lite, and the guy 
told me, they had had almost all the linux laptops returned, biggest 
reasons, couldnt get it to connect to the internet, no support from 
ISPs, cant update/use apple products, same with Android 
product.which is why stopped selling them. Acer Aspire also refused 
to support anybody who installed any other kernel during the warranty 
period...


Nowadays, people will be reluctant to use a computer they cant use their 
apple products with.






On 22/06/2012 09:16, Alan Pope wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 22/06/12 08:09, Chris Fox wrote:

 From what I recall, they did for a while and it was a monumental
failure. Perhaps it was before its time, perhaps Dell didn't do a
good enough job of marketing it, but either way I think they did it
for a while and then binned the idea.


Not true. They still sell Ubuntu laptops. I did a search just
yesterday and found about 10 of their models where Ubuntu was an
install option.

http://search.euro.dell.com/results.aspx?s=gen&c=uk&l=en&cs=&k=ubuntu&cat=all&x=0&y=0

Cheers,
- -- 
Alan Pope

Engineering Manager

Canonical - Product Strategy
+44 (0) 7973 620 164
alan.p...@canonical.com
http://ubuntu.com/
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] ubuntu in india

[Alan Pope]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 22/06/12 08:09, Chris Fox wrote:
> From what I recall, they did for a while and it was a monumental 
> failure. Perhaps it was before its time, perhaps Dell didn't do a
> good enough job of marketing it, but either way I think they did it
> for a while and then binned the idea.
> 

Not true. They still sell Ubuntu laptops. I did a search just
yesterday and found about 10 of their models where Ubuntu was an
install option.

http://search.euro.dell.com/results.aspx?s=gen&c=uk&l=en&cs=&k=ubuntu&cat=all&x=0&y=0

Cheers,
- -- 
Alan Pope
Engineering Manager

Canonical - Product Strategy
+44 (0) 7973 620 164
alan.p...@canonical.com
http://ubuntu.com/
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

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=NLw3
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] ubuntu in india

[Alan Pope]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 21/06/12 18:00, Andy Braben wrote:
> How long before they are available in 850 stores over here?
> 

Dell don't have the same concept of stores here as they do in China
and India. Those countries also have many more people who don't
already have pre-conceptions about what software a computer should
ship with :(

Cheers,
- -- 
Alan Pope
Engineering Manager

Canonical - Product Strategy
+44 (0) 7973 620 164
alan.p...@canonical.com
http://ubuntu.com/
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] ubuntu in india

[john]

On Fri, 2012-06-22 at 07:38 +0100, richard wrote:
> On 21/06/12 17:47, john wrote:
> > Thought that this may be interesting :
> >
> > ww.h-online.com/open/news/item/Dell-to-bring-Ubuntu-laptops-to-850-retail-stores-in-India-1620657.html
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> so why not sell them here too ?
> 
Hi Richard,

With over £700m per year revenues from U.K Government at stake.Combined
with a very nice tax avoidance scheme. Microsoft, understandably, are
going to 'squash' any upstarts before they even get off the ground. So
the rule of the school yard applies for Ubuntu:'don't pick on anyone
bigger than yourself'. And make friends with the right people : Dell in
India and China.

The big change is that European Governments and Governments are shifting
to open-standards. Even in the U.K :
http://fsfe.org/projects/os/uk-standards-consultation.en.html

I proposed to the Cabinet Office Open Standards Committee that they
benchmark with the State of Oklahoma, where they have made huge savings
through using open-source software. For example replacing Oracle with
MySQL databases. Although nowadays they would probably prefer MariaDB
instead. People and companies tend to follow what their Governments
propose.

Then there will be Chinese and Indian students arriving in the U.K.
Looking towards using Ubuntu rather than the Windows Systems provided by
their Unis.

Bit early in the morning for this. But its my slant on things.

John


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] ubuntu in india

[Chris Fox]

On 22/06/12 07:38, richard wrote:

On 21/06/12 17:47, john wrote:

Thought that this may be interesting :

ww.h-online.com/open/news/item/Dell-to-bring-Ubuntu-laptops-to-850-retail-stores-in-India-1620657.html


John


so why not sell them here too ?



From what I recall, they did for a while and it was a monumental
failure. Perhaps it was before its time, perhaps Dell didn't do a good
enough job of marketing it, but either way I think they did it for a
while and then binned the idea.

Personally I'd like to see someone try it again. The big stumbling
block, I think, isn't telling Joe Public that Ubuntu is better than
Windows: They can figure that out for themselves, and if they can't then
maybe for them Ubuntu /isn't/ better.

What Dell, or PC World, or whoever tries this at a national level needs
to educate your average home user about is that Ubuntu is different, and
isn't compatible with Windows, and why. I vaguely recall stories from
the last time someone tried selling pre-loaded Linux laptops to Joe
Public that a number of users were returning them as "faulty" because
their Windows software didn't work.

Good luck to the chap who posted to this list a few days ago trying to 
do the same thing - I hope it's a big success.


Cheers,
Chris

--
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] ubuntu in india

[richard]

On 21/06/12 17:47, john wrote:

Thought that this may be interesting :

ww.h-online.com/open/news/item/Dell-to-bring-Ubuntu-laptops-to-850-retail-stores-in-India-1620657.html

John



so why not sell them here too ?

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] ubuntu in india

[john]

On Thu, 2012-06-21 at 18:00 +0100, Andy Braben wrote:
> 
> 
> On 21 June 2012 17:47, john  wrote:
> Thought that this may be interesting :
> 
> 
> ww.h-online.com/open/news/item/Dell-to-bring-Ubuntu-laptops-to-850-retail-stores-in-India-1620657.html
> 
> John
> 
> www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Dell-to-bring-Ubuntu-laptops-to-850-retail-stores-in-India-1620657.html
> 
> You are missing a "w" at the beginning of the URL.
> 
> How long before they are available in 850 stores over here?
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Regards,
> Andy
> 
Thanks Andy,

I set up a lap-top on Windows7 this afternoon. I have to say that after
using Ubuntu and Debian. Using Windows was so ordinary. 

With retailers now under so much pressure. It must only be a question of
timing before there is a rol-out over here.

John


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] ubuntu in india

[Andy Braben]

On 21 June 2012 17:47, john  wrote:

> Thought that this may be interesting :
>
>
> ww.h-online.com/open/news/item/Dell-to-bring-Ubuntu-laptops-to-850-retail-stores-in-India-1620657.html
>
> John
>
>
www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Dell-to-bring-Ubuntu-laptops-to-850-retail-stores-in-India-1620657.html

You are missing a "w" at the beginning of the URL.

How long before they are available in 850 stores over here?


-- 
Regards,
Andy
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