RE: Handwritten EURO sign (off topic?)
For what it's worth, in America, you spell it meter; in England, you spell it metre. Jill -Original Message- From: Philippe Verdy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 5:52 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Handwritten EURO sign (off topic?) SI units already have several names, which are language dependant. the English meter is ...
Re: Handwritten EURO sign (off topic?)
On 16/08/2003 21:51, Philippe Verdy wrote: Note that USA, UK, Australia and New Zealand are members, even if they often can use legally or most usually the British system (miles, weight pounds, gallons, degrees Fahrenheit...) USA and UK do use this alternative system, except that the US gallon is different from the British one (exactly 20% smaller I think), but Australia and New Zealand don't. I saw no sign of any of these measurements in either of the latter countries, except for a few very old signs using miles. -- Peter Kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] (personal) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) http://www.qaya.org/
Re: Handwritten EURO sign (off topic?)
Peter Kirk scripsit: USA and UK do use this alternative system, except that the US gallon is different from the British one (exactly 20% smaller I think), For the record, it's true that the Imperial gallon has 20 fluid ounces and the Fred Flintstone gallon only 16, *but* it's also true that U.S. fluid ounces are about 4% bigger than Imperial ones. So in fact a U.S. gallon is about 83% of an Imperial one. Quarts and pints are corresponding. -- There is no real going back. Though I John Cowan may come to the Shire, it will not seem [EMAIL PROTECTED] the same; for I shall not be the same. http://www.reutershealth.com I am wounded with knife, sting, and tooth, http://www.ccil.org/~cowan and a long burden. Where shall I find rest? --Frodo
Re: Handwritten EURO sign (off topic?)
John Cowan remarked... Of course it's the *pint* (8 pints to a gallon) that is 16 or 20 fluid ounces. Which explains to me why a pint of bitter in England seems quite so enormous... well for a small Yank... ;-) Rick
Re: Handwritten EURO sign (off topic?)
At 18:01 -0400 2003-08-17, John Cowan wrote: Yup. Hence also the Brit's complaint about the metric system: a liter of beer is too much, half a liter isn't enough, but a pint, ah, that's just right. The Imperial pint is .57 liters, whereas the Flintstone one is only .47 liters. A half-litre can of Guinness fits perfectly into the standard Irish pint glass. I mean perfectly. I just poured one. :-) -- Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
Re: Handwritten EURO sign (off topic?)
On 17/08/2003 15:16, Michael Everson wrote: At 18:01 -0400 2003-08-17, John Cowan wrote: Yup. Hence also the Brit's complaint about the metric system: a liter of beer is too much, half a liter isn't enough, but a pint, ah, that's just right. The Imperial pint is .57 liters, whereas the Flintstone one is only .47 liters. A half-litre can of Guinness fits perfectly into the standard Irish pint glass. I mean perfectly. I just poured one. :-) Hence this Brit's complaint also about Irish beer. Lots of froth, lots to chew on as well, but not much to drink! ;-) -- Peter Kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] (personal) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) http://www.qaya.org/
Re: Handwritten EURO sign (off topic?)
On 2003.08.14, 00:52, Anto'nio Martins-Tuva'lkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If the dollar sign can be used for currencies other than the USD, even for some which name is not even dollar, then I suppose there is a theoreitical possiblity that it may be used as a symbol of euro cent (though I personally prefer c). Ooops! Here I meant rather that «If the dollar sign can be used for currencies »...« then the *cent sign* may be used as a symbol of euro cent». Sorry again! -- . António MARTINS-Tuválkin, | ()| [EMAIL PROTECTED] || R. Laureano de Oliveira, 64 r/c esq. | PT-1885-050 MOSCAVIDE (LRS) Não me invejo de quem tem | +351 934 821 700 carros, parelhas e montes | http://www.tuvalkin.web.pt/bandeira/ só me invejo de quem bebe | http://pagina.de/bandeiras/ a água em todas as fontes |
Re: Handwritten EURO sign (off topic?)
On 2003.08.14, 05:24, John Cowan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anto'nio Martins-Tuva'lkin scripsit: Some habits are indeed language dependant, but some others are just tradition (some of it imposed as logic and correct decades ago, like compulsive caseless singular for SI units in speech), and should not necessarily apply. Compulsive caseless singular? That *is* language dependent. It is -- but I twisted my words less than my reasoning: I meant that *even things clearly language dependent*, like case and number, were (still are) legislated as part of the SI (in terms that SI units should be always nominative singular), and yet widely ignored. You just can't say four meter in English; it has to be four meters. Yet, according to the SI, you should. Actually, we joked about a 10th grade Physics teacher who would say (in Portuguese) «fifty kilogram» in class and «fifty kilos» in the corridor. -- . António MARTINS-Tuválkin, | ()| [EMAIL PROTECTED] || R. Laureano de Oliveira, 64 r/c esq. | PT-1885-050 MOSCAVIDE (LRS) Não me invejo de quem tem | +351 934 821 700 carros, parelhas e montes | http://www.tuvalkin.web.pt/bandeira/ só me invejo de quem bebe | http://pagina.de/bandeiras/ a água em todas as fontes |
Re: Handwritten EURO sign (off topic?)
From: Anto'nio Martins-Tuva'lkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2003 10:22 PM Subject: Re: Handwritten EURO sign (off topic?) On 2003.08.14, 05:24, John Cowan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anto'nio Martins-Tuva'lkin scripsit: Some habits are indeed language dependant, but some others are just tradition (some of it imposed as logic and correct decades ago, like compulsive caseless singular for SI units in speech), and should not necessarily apply. Compulsive caseless singular? That *is* language dependent. It is -- but I twisted my words less than my reasoning: I meant that *even things clearly language dependent*, like case and number, were (still are) legislated as part of the SI (in terms that SI units should be always nominative singular), and yet widely ignored. You just can't say four meter in English; it has to be four meters. Yet, according to the SI, you should. Actually, we joked about a 10th grade Physics teacher who would say (in Portuguese) «fifty kilogram» in class and «fifty kilos» in the corridor. SI units already have several names, which are language dependant. the English meter is a French mètre (which also has the plural form mètres according to the French grammar and all dictionnaries, including the official terminology based on the historic Dictionnary of the French Academy.) I bet that Japanese also writes meter phonetically with a square Katakana symbol (ME-TE-RU?), and that many languages include their translation of this basic unit. The SI system is fully described and maintained by the French Bureau International des Poids et Mesures (http://www.bipm.fr/) under the International Organization of the Convention of the Meter signed in Paris in 1875, modified in 1921, last amended in 1998 and 2000. In 1997, 48 countries had adhered to this convention: - In Americas the Caribbeans: Argentina, Brasil, Canada, Chile, Dominican Rep., Mexico, Uruguay, Venezuela, USA, - In Western Europe: Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Norway, Netherlands, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, United Kingdom, - In Central Eastern Europe: Bulgaria, Czech Rep., Hungria, Poland, Romania, Russian Federation, Slovakia, - In Africa: South Africa, Cameroun, Egypt - In West-Central Asia: India, Indonesia, Iran, Israel, Pakistan, Turkey, - In East Asia: China, Korean Rep., Korean Dem. Rep., Japan, Singapore, Thailand, - In the Pacific: Australia, New Zealand. All big countries (notably the G8) are members, and most others have already accepted to apply it for international interchange (notably all the other WTO members, and the missing Luxembourg in the E.U.). Note that USA, UK, Australia and New Zealand are members, even if they often can use legally or most usually the British system (miles, weight pounds, gallons, degrees Fahrenheit...) The basic French names, their symbols, are listed here on the previous web site: http://www.bipm.fr/fra/3_SI/base_units.html The English names are listed here too. And the official 1998 text is here, with its 2000 supplement: http://www.bipm.fr/pdf/brochure-si.pdf (French, official) http://www.bipm.fr/pdf/si-brochure.pdf (English) http://www.bipm.fr/pdf/si-supplement2000.pdf (French English) It describes the convention, the unit system, its names, symbols, prefixes. Prefixes are defined between 10^24 and 10^-24 (extended in 1958) There are some references to undimensional units defined in ISO 31, which will be integrated later in SI. It is translated officially in English since 1985. This brochure is also translated into: german, english, bulgarish, chinese, korean, spanish, japanese, portuguese, romanian, and czech. For the English version, visit: http://www.bipm.fr/enus/3_SI/si.html notably its brochure: Note however that currency units are *not* SI units as they have no stable definition and they are not universally convertible (each currency defines its own measure system) One note finally: the term degree kelvin and the symbol °K was used in the SI before 1968... Philippe. Les messages non sollicités (spams) ne sont pas tolérés. Tout abus sera signalé automatiquement à vos fournisseurs de service.
Re: Handwritten EURO sign (off topic?)
Not pausing to wonder why on earth this list [EMAIL PROTECTED] is currently discussing my country's currencies, only to wonder if anyone here knows whether Ireland is the only EU country which has to use two - in Belfast we use Pounds Sterling (£), and in Dublin euro (). mg ps. To complicate/simplify matters further: I am recently returned from an academic conference in Scotland where I was invited to give a paper, and a few days ago just added £10 of my leftover UK currency from that trip to a handful of euro to buy something here. mg -- Marion Gunn * EGT (Estab.1991) * http://www.egt.ie * fiosruithe/enquiries: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * [EMAIL PROTECTED] *
Re: Handwritten EURO sign (off topic?)
At 11:47 +0100 2003-08-15, Marion Gunn wrote: Not pausing to wonder why on earth this list [EMAIL PROTECTED] is currently discussing my country's currencies, only to wonder if anyone here knows whether Ireland is the only EU country which has to use two - in Belfast we use Pounds Sterling (£), and in Dublin euro (*). Ireland, as a member of the European Monetary Union, is one of the countries which uses euros, which is why you use them in Dublin. The United Kingdom is not a member of the EMU, which is why you use pounds in Belfast. -- Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
RE: Handwritten EURO sign (off topic?)
What's more, in the Isle of Man (which is situated between Britain and Ireland) they accept pretty much any currency under the sun. You can pay for things in a mixture of pounds sterling, euro, US dollars, whatever. They don't care. Shops will just take anything, and if necessary make up an exchange rate on the spot. The reason they don't care is because they can actually spend this mix anywhere _else_ on the Isle of Man. A very enlightened attitude, I find. Jill -Original Message- From: Marion Gunn [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 15, 2003 11:48 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Handwritten EURO sign (off topic?) Not pausing to wonder why on earth this list [EMAIL PROTECTED] is currently discussing my country's currencies, only to wonder if anyone here knows whether Ireland is the only EU country which has to use two - in Belfast we use Pounds Sterling (£), and in Dublin euro (EUR). mg ps. To complicate/simplify matters further: I am recently returned from an academic conference in Scotland where I was invited to give a paper, and a few days ago just added £10 of my leftover UK currency from that trip to a handful of euro to buy something here. mg -- Marion Gunn * EGT (Estab.1991) * http://www.egt.ie * fiosruithe/enquiries: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * [EMAIL PROTECTED] *
Re: Handwritten EURO sign (off topic?)
On 15/08/2003 04:16, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's more, in the Isle of Man (which is situated between Britain and Ireland) they accept pretty much any currency under the sun. You can pay for things in a mixture of pounds sterling, euro, US dollars, whatever. They don't care. Shops will just take anything, and if necessary make up an exchange rate on the spot. The reason they don't care is because they can actually spend this mix anywhere _else_ on the Isle of Man. A very enlightened attitude, I find. Jill Agreed. But it's not a member or part of the EU, or of the UK, like the Channel Islands - which makes them all convenient tax havens. It is self-governing, with the oldest Parliament in the world I understand. -- Peter Kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] (personal) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) http://www.qaya.org/
Re: Handwritten EURO sign (off topic?)
From: Peter Kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Agreed. But it's not a member or part of the EU, or of the UK, like the Channel Islands - which makes them all convenient tax havens. It is self-governing, with the oldest Parliament in the world I understand. I thought it was in Iceland...
Re: Handwritten EURO sign (off topic?)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] scripsit: What's more, in the Isle of Man (which is situated between Britain and Ireland) they accept pretty much any currency under the sun. You can pay for things in a mixture of pounds sterling, euro, US dollars, whatever. They don't care. Shops will just take anything, and if necessary make up an exchange rate on the spot. The reason they don't care is because they can actually spend this mix anywhere _else_ on the Isle of Man. Similar things used to happen in Luxembourg, I believe. A very enlightened attitude, I find. In 19th century California, it was common for things to cost 12.5 cents, although the U.S. has never made coins for this amount, nor for 0.5 cents either. To solve this problem, people used the following arrangement: you could buy one such item with a quarter (25 cent coin) and get a dime (10 cent coin) in change, or you could buy the item with dime and get no change. Mark Twain, unsurprisingly, found a way to beat the system: go to the Post Office and buy a 5-cent stamp, then use the two dimes to buy two items. -- Kill Gorg)Bûn! Kill orc-folk! John Cowan No other words please Wild Men. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Drive away bad air and darkness http://www.reutershealth.com with bright iron! --Gh)Bân-buri-Ghânhttp://www.ccil.org/~cowan
Re: Handwritten EURO sign (off topic?)
On 14/08/2003 09:54, Michael Everson wrote: Lepton in Greek was accepted from the beginning. Leptó pl leptá. The same word as the original widow's mite (Mark 12:42). Probably worth even less now! -- Peter Kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] (personal) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) http://www.qaya.org/
Re: Handwritten EURO sign (off topic?)
- Message d'origine - De: Marco Cimarosti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anto'nio Martins-Tuva'lkin wrote: After all the euro is a common currency and its figures should be written in a common way. Why? Very good question. Multilingual countries like Belgium or Canada already were or are writing the same amounts using different cultural conventions depending on the language of the text where they appear. Otherwise, I'm personally quite flexible if only one convention is used and imposed upon all, as long as it is the French one ;-) P. Andries - o - 0 - o - Unicode en français http://pages.infinit.net/hapax (Traduction de l'UTR 20 en cours)
Re: Handwritten EURO sign (off topic?)
James H. Cloos Jr. wrote: Anto'nio == Anto'nio Martins-Tuva'lkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Anto'nio (Let alone the validity of things Anto'nio like k, c etc.) I'm sure things like m, k, M and even G will come into use, though I expect more will use them in front of the digits. I certainly use m$, k$ et al, and regulary see others use them. m and m$ would be millieuros and millidollars. How could anyone need anything like that? And why use c$ and c, wouldn't be just as good? Stefan
Re: Handwritten EURO sign (off topic?)
At 00:52 +0100 2003-08-14, Anto'nio Martins-Tuva'lkin wrote: Using the cent sign is mostly US specific and the symbol is not recognized as such in most European countries, so the cent sign is bound directly to the dollar. If the dollar sign can be used for currencies other than the USD, even for some which name is not even dollar, then I suppose there is a theoreitical possiblity that it may be used as a symbol of euro cent (though I personally prefer c*). There is no reason that the noble ¢ cent sign should not be used for the European currency. Personally I always use it, because 2¢ looks like two cents and 2c looks like two cee. In Ireland of course when we used pence we wrote 2p and said two pee. -- Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
Re: Handwritten EURO sign (off topic?)
Kenneth == Kenneth Whistler [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: terra is not far behind (especially if disk sizes continue to grow). Kenneth Does that refer to physical disk sizes growing to global Kenneth scale, or disk contents sufficiently capacious to encompass Kenneth the entire store of terran information? Touch.(That is U+02AD for the utf8-impaired.) Does anyone have a good limerick lambasting typos? Or a haiku? ( , yes? ) -JimC
Re: Handwritten EURO sign (off topic?)
At 00:24 -0400 2003-08-14, John Cowan wrote: There are surely other countries that use $ as their currency symbol even though their currency is not called dollar. Such as Mexico, where $ means peso. In Portugal, cêntimo (officialy and in practice). It seems that the changelessness of this name was less severely enforced than the euro's. Except in Ireland, though the struggle continues. Lepton in Greek was accepted from the beginning. Leptó pl leptá. And through this revolting graveyard of the universe the muffled, maddening beating of drums, and thin, monotonous whine of blasphemous flutes from inconceivable, unlighted chambers beyond Time; the detestable pounding and piping whereunto dance slowly, awkwardly, and absurdly the gigantic tenebrous ultimate gods -- the blind, voiceless, mindless gargoyles whose soul is Nyarlathotep. Now that takes me back -- Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
Re: Handwritten EURO sign (off topic?)
Anto'nio == Anto'nio Martins-Tuva'lkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Anto'nio (Let alone the validity of things Anto'nio like k, c etc.) I'm sure things like m, k, M and even G will come into use, though I expect more will use them in front of the digits. I certainly use m$, k$ et al, and regulary see others use them. -JimC
Re: Handwritten EURO sign (off topic?)
Jim Cloos asked (B (B Or a haiku? (B (BAs long as we're off topic... A Haiku. Picking up on your 7 syllables, as (Bquoted by Ken, how about: (B (BUnfortunately (BTerra is not far behind (Bthe eight ball of God (B (BH... Well, that certainly lacks a seasonal suggestion... (B (B$B;M5(L5$7$N(B (B$B;m$r5-O?$9$k(B (B$BGO
Re: Handwritten EURO sign (off topic?)
James H. Cloos Jr. wrote: I'm sure things like m, k, M and even G will come into use, though I expect more will use them in front of the digits. Perhaps, but that would be incorrect, methinks: Using SI preffixes implies that one is adopting the said unit (the euro, in this case) as if it were a SI unit itself -- and thus all other formal rules of the SI would apply. This includes the rule about (number)+(nbsp)+(unit symbol). On 2003.08.06, 11:12, Philippe Verdy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the placement of the currency unit symbol or multiple is language dependant, and the same local practices are used with the euro, as the one used for pre-euro currencies. You mean that Dutch should write one euro as 1,- , while Portuguese as 100, and perhaps British as 1.00?... It may be the case, but I'd found that a bad idea and worth fighting against. Some habits are indeed language dependant, but some others are just tradition (some of it imposed as logic and correct decades ago, like compulsive caseless singular for SI units in speech), and should not necessarily apply. After all the euro is a common currency and its figures should be written in a common way. In fact, the position of the currency unit and decimal separator or placement of the negative sign depends mostly of the current locale (language/region) and not on the indicated currency, so this convention is applied locally for *all* currency units. Nope, this is not true: While for any Portuguese the logical and usual way to express one escudo is (was) 1$00, it would be not only ridiculous but even not understandable to write one pound as 1£00 or even less one dollar as 1$00. I'm sure this applies to other locales as well. Using the cent sign is mostly US specific and the symbol is not recognized as such in most European countries, so the cent sign is bound directly to the dollar. Perhaps, but any one outside Portugal would say the same about $, while (as recently reported on this list), this symbol has been used for the escudo from 1911 to 2001 and its semantics in current portuguese society is money and not any specific currency. The $ symbol is used also in Cape Verde and possibly will be used in East Timor for local currency, adding to its trivial usage in Australia and New Zealand (at least). If the dollar sign can be used for currencies other than the USD, even for some which name is not even dollar, then I suppose there is a theoreitical possiblity that it may be used as a symbol of euro cent (though I personally prefer c). For example, here in France where the cent of a euro is named centime (plural centimes) rather than cent In Portugal, cêntimo (officialy and in practice). It seems that the changelessness of this name was less severely enforced than the euro's. -- . António MARTINS-Tuválkin, | ()| [EMAIL PROTECTED] || R. Laureano de Oliveira, 64 r/c esq. | PT-1885-050 MOSCAVIDE (LRS) Não me invejo de quem tem | +351 934 821 700 carros, parelhas e montes | http://www.tuvalkin.web.pt/bandeira/ só me invejo de quem bebe | http://pagina.de/bandeiras/ a água em todas as fontes |
Re: Handwritten EURO sign (off topic?)
On 14/08/2003 09:50, Michael Everson wrote: In Ireland of course when we used pence we wrote 2p and said two pee. And we still do in the UK! -- Peter Kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] (personal) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) http://www.qaya.org/
RE: Handwritten EURO sign (off topic?)
Anto'nio Martins-Tuva'lkin wrote: On 2003.08.06, 11:12, Philippe Verdy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the placement of the currency unit symbol or multiple is language dependant, and the same local practices are used with the euro, as the one used for pre-euro currencies. You mean that Dutch should write one euro as 1,- EUR, while Portuguese as 1EUR00, and perhaps British as EUR 1.00?... It may be the case, but I'd found that a bad idea and worth fighting against. Why? Different countries always used different characters as decimal or grouping separators for numbers. The Italian for one and a half euros is uno virgola cinquanta euro (where virgola means comma). Should we say comma and write a dot!? After all the euro is a common currency and its figures should be written in a common way. Why? In fact, the position of the currency unit and decimal separator or placement of the negative sign depends mostly of the current locale (language/region) and not on the indicated currency, so this convention is applied locally for *all* currency units. Nope, this is not true: In most cases, it is: amounts in foreign currency are normally formatted according to local conventions. E.g. a price in US$ on an Italian magazine would probably be formatted as $2.345,50, not $2,345.50 or 2,345$50¢. Using the cent sign is mostly US specific and the symbol is not recognized as such in most European countries, so the cent sign is bound directly to the dollar. [...] then I suppose there is a theoreitical possiblity that it may be used as a symbol of euro cent (though I personally prefer cEUR). The problem is not *which* symbol to use for cent: it is the concept itself that cents may need a symbol which is not familiar in most EU countries. I guess that Ireland is the only euro-zone country where you can see a price expressed in cents, such as 55 cents. In most other countries of Europe, the same amount would be expressed as 0.55 euros. _ Marco
Re: Handwritten EURO sign (off topic?)
After all the euro is a common currency and its figures should be written in a common way. Why? Why, too? This is absolutely not required by the european directives, which has already stated different names for the subdivision for each language, and accepted distinct plural forms, as well as using the national conventions which were already in use to designate amounts in local currency (now the euro) and foreign currencies (like the USD). As local conventions for foreign currencies were not affected by the Euro, they are still valid, and did not have to change. In fact, the position of the currency unit and decimal separator or placement of the negative sign depends mostly of the current locale (language/region) and not on the indicated currency, so this convention is applied locally for *all* currency units. Nope, this is not true: In most cases, it is: amounts in foreign currency are normally formatted according to local conventions. E.g. a price in US$ on an Italian magazine would probably be formatted as $2.345,50, not $2,345.50 or 2,345$50. And in France, 2 345,50$ (we already use the term virgule in ALL numeric designations, and I don't see why we should write it with a dot for amounts in euros...) Using the cent sign is mostly US specific and the symbol is not recognized as such in most European countries, so the cent sign is bound directly to the dollar. [...] then I suppose there is a theoreitical possiblity that it may be used as a symbol of euro cent (though I personally prefer cEUR). The problem is not *which* symbol to use for cent: it is the concept itself that cents may need a symbol which is not familiar in most EU countries. I guess that Ireland is the only euro-zone country where you can see a price expressed in cents, such as 55 cents. In most other countries of Europe, the same amount would be expressed as 0.55 euros. In France we use the translation centime for amounts in cents, notably in many phone rates (soon we will need to use millimes for local phone rates if prices are continuing to go lower, as they are now typically at 0,02/min, almost always announced like 2 centimes par minute with some operators pricing at 0,01/min, and our phone billings, calculated per second instead of minutes are already using detailed prices in thousands of euros.)
Re: Handwritten EURO sign (off topic?)
On Tuesday, August 05, 2003 10:54 PM, Stefan Persson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: James H. Cloos Jr. wrote: Anto'nio == Anto'nio Martins-Tuva'lkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Anto'nio (Let alone the validity of things Anto'nio like k, c etc.) I'm sure things like m, k, M and even G will come into use, though I expect more will use them in front of the digits. Certainly not: the placement of the currency unit symbol or multiple is language dependant, and the same local practices are used with the euro, as the one used for pre-euro currencies. In fact, the position of the currency unit and decimal separator or placement of the negative sign depends mostly of the current locale (language/region) and not on the indicated currency, so this convention is applied locally for *all* currency units. Using the cent sign is mostly US specific and the symbol is not recognized as such in most European countries, so the cent sign is bound directly to the dollar. Using c would be certainly better recognized as a cent of a euro rather than the cent sign. Such things may change in the future, but for now there's no commonly recognized symbold for the cent of a euro. For example, here in France where the cent of a euro is named centime (plural centimes) rather than cent which is written and read exactly like the number cent (100), small prices like phone call rates are written and pronounced like this 1,2 centimes/minute or written 0,012 /min, or 1,2 ct/min. There is NO symbol for the cent of a euro, even in ads which prefer an abbreviation like ct, previously used to designate a centime of the french franc and now used to designate a centime of the euro. I certainly use m$, k$ et al, and regulary see others use them. m and m$ would be millieuros and millidollars. How could anyone need anything like that? And why use c$ and c, wouldn't be just as good? The millieuros could be used, but it is not a natural sub-unit, and c would be more appropriate if it was recognized. For now the abbreviation ct is much more common. On the opposite, the multiples k (1 000,00 ) or M (1 000 000,00 ) are quite common in informal business documents, and G is quite rare. However these unit multiples are illegal in contractual documents and legal forms where only the symbol or the fully spelled amount is acceptable; some legal documents require to use both the numeric form with the symbol or EUR and the spelled amount both written within the same locale convention, for example in French: dix-huit centimes par minute (0,18 /min) or socit anonyme au capital de deux millions huit cent mille euros (2 800 000 ) -- Philippe. Spams non tolrs: tout message non sollicit sera rapport vos fournisseurs de services Internet.
Re: Handwritten EURO sign (off topic?)
Stefan == Stefan Persson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Stefan m and m$ would be millieuros and millidollars. How could Stefan anyone need anything like that? On this side of the pond, fuel prices per gallon are quoted in m$; I presume they quote m$ per Litre in CA, though it has been long enough that I cannot be sure what I remember about ON stations Presorted bulk mail in the states is priced such that the per-item rates are not integral cents; you can even buy stamps at rates like 14.xxx . I could see people discussing those using m$ or even $. However, the specific places *I* used m$ were in micropayment discussions. Stefan And why use c$ and c, wouldn't be just as good? You'll not I didnt use centi. -JimC
Re: Handwritten EURO sign (off topic?)
Michael Everson schreef: You are lucky not having to put up with bad English like five euro and six cent, living in the Netherlands and speaking Dutch as you do. Funny. In our language, the euro behaves just as the guilder always did, that is, the very same as what you call bad English. We can say five euro and six cent as well. However, I presume this is caused by a grammar rule: you're not talking about the coins, but about an amount of money. So if I say I've got 5 euro in my pocket, I mean an amount totalling to 5.-. And if I say I've got 5 euros, I mean 5 of the coins. But you'll probably disagree, saying that it's alright with Dutch being another language and such, and as we're extremely off topic by now, I propose not continuing this thread on this list. If you do want to argue, you know my email address. Pim Blokland
Re: Handwritten EURO sign (off topic?)
On 2003.08.05, 16:55, Doug Ewell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Any symbol that looks remotely like a C with two (nearly) horizontal cross-strokes, appearing before a numeric value, Actually, most people here use it *after* the number. Which is only logical, if we follow speech, common sence and the International System of Measures and Weights. However I did read a big and glossy style manual about the euro sign back in 2001 and nothing was said about its reccomended placement respective to the number. (Let alone the validity of things like k, c etc.) OTOH, in my previous job as websmith (I wasn't really designing anything, just HTML) for a banking software company, I used the dollar cent symbol U+00A2 for euro cents and nobody even raised a brow about it (this was in mid-2001). The particular set of screen interfaces thus composed were part of a project that went belly up sometime later (already in production stage, dont blame me!), but it might have been inherited by other projects... -- . António MARTINS-Tuválkin, | ()| [EMAIL PROTECTED] || R. Laureano de Oliveira, 64 r/c esq. | PT-1885-050 MOSCAVIDE (LRS) Não me invejo de quem tem | +351 934 821 700 carros, parelhas e montes | http://www.tuvalkin.web.pt/bandeira/ só me invejo de quem bebe | http://pagina.de/bandeiras/ a água em todas as fontes |
