Fwd: [UC] Reality check
Dude, If you think my post was a pot shot at you, I'd say you are being a tad self centered. My suggestion was based on the reporting of what happened at the meeting. We know Marty works for Jannie, that Jannie showed up at the meeting apparently intent on raising a fuss about John F and criticizing UCD. The anonymous poster wanted to encourage people interested in the issue to show up. So the question I saw was, who knew in advance that the issue was going to come up, although the agenda was focused elsewhere, and who had an interest in bringing out additional community members who are hyped up on the whole issue? I don't see an alignment between Tony and anti-UCD forces. How would he have the info and how does he gain by getting people to come? What was his motive? How would he gain? Jannie and Marty, OTOH, would benefit, wouldn't they? Does that mean that Marty posted anonymously? Certainly not. Just provides a motive and context. And I don't think you're in a good position to criticize others for trying to interpret events and sharing your interpretations with others. Not at all. Paul -Original Message- From: Glenn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; UnivCity@list.purple.com Sent: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 8:17 am Subject: Re: [UC] Reality check - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: UnivCity@list.purple.com Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 11:28 PM Subject: Fwd: [UC] Reality check I thought I saw Marty's name on the board list for UCD when I checked earlier this month. I understand he was very present at the first Thursday with Jannie. Seems like he should have been the usual suspect for the committeeman7 message. Right? Paul Hey buddy, You can take pot shots at what I say on the list. But now, you are engaging in this insinuation against people without any support. It was always nutty to accuse a Blackwell associate of that post. Now, you make this type of suggestion. Shame on you. You need to ask the one who brought the report of the fraud, and launched the immediate investigations into voteforandytoy and committeeman 7; how the investigation proceeds. I believe that was Mr. West, if I am not mistaken. Nnelg -Original Message- From: Glenn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN [EMAIL PROTECTED]; University City List UnivCity@list.purple.com Sent: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 6:25 pm Subject: Re: [UC] Reality check - Original Message - From: UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: University City List UnivCity@list.purple.com Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 5:15 PM Subject: Re: [UC] Reality check KAREN ALLEN wrote: I thought John Fenton was under a gag order. If that's the case, he's not in a position to refute anything. open questions: are the other ucd employees that were involved with the malcolm x park incident also under gag orders? Excellent question! I hope they haven't been placed on a 2 week leave. also, is it true that marty and glenn bryan were removed from ucd's board? when? were any reasons given why? OK. This is what I know. I remember that Marty Cabry was on the UCD Board at the very beginning. Maybe 1999 or 2001? I had heard a long time ago that he had been removed rather than having quit. For me, the Councilmanwoman just confirmed what I had heard a long time ago. What I think I heard on Thurs.? Councilwoman Blackwell suggesting that both he and Glenn Bryan were removed because of the long working relationship with her. I missed when Glenn Bryan was actually on the Board. It's my opinion that she is confirming what I've asserted, a UCD demand for secrecy. A working relationship should have open communication pathways. Whether it's between a civic association and their members, or between a UCD and the community's elected representative; open communication needs to be encouraged. I have no other information, but I think I understand her complaint. Why should she not have a representative on the board with whom she has a working relationship? The community depends on her to get the best information about what is going on, and if her contacts are removed; the open communication is blocked. and, is the full text of wendell's statement available publicly? when he read it at last thursday's meeting, did he just happen to have a copy with him, or had he been planning on reading it? He read it when, I believe both Freda and I, called out, will you confirm or deny what the Councilwoman is telling us. He did not offer any copies of the statement, but read it from a paper. That's what I experienced, Glenn .. UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN
Fwd: [UC] Reality check
This, I believe, is why Tony likes face-to-face meetings instead of email or listserv?correspondence. That's mind boggling.? As much time as he spends posting to the list, he must spend the rest of his waking hours engaging in face to face meetings so he can fast talk people.? Hard to believe. Paul -Original Message- From: Frank [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: UnivCity@list.purple.com Sent: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 5:52 pm Subject: Re: [UC] Reality check Not cheap at all. I'm replying to this: All this is rapidly evolving even as we tap, of course. Real negotiations about matters of importance never take place on an unmoderated listserv. He posed it as a statement which is why I responded the way I did. That is Tony's style: Broad statements of fact which are, in reality, his opinions. Notice the word never in the second sentence. Really? And important. Important to whom? And who said these particular negotiations were happening here in the first place? No one did. It's a red herring. This, I believe, is why Tony likes face-to-face meetings instead of email or listserv?correspondence.?In person people don't have time to react to this kind of nonsense before the next ridiculous sentence is uttered. In an email people have time to compose an answer based on what was actually said instead of a fleeting impression. Frank On Jun 13, 2007, at 01:50 PM, Brian Siano wrote: Frank wrote: First of all, that is one of the reasons I work for myself. Secondly, if you think this never happens, you are more naive than you let on. Do you honestly believe everything a CEO says publicly about an employee's departure is true? Please say you don't. Why should this situation be any different? According to Jannie Blackwell, one of the conditions of Fenton's severance package is that he not talk about it, Perhaps *that's* why he hasn't said anything. How do you know it's evolving and not over? You're implying you know something the rest of us do not. Do you? So we get the cheapest of the debating tactics: Are you _sure_? Do you really _know_? How do you _really know_? Couldn't you be _wrong_? Jesus, you sound like a freshman who's just read the _Republic_ for the first time. All we know is this: Blackwell says that Fenton was offered a severance package (Could be true or not.). UCD says they're still investigating the issue (Investigating.is a broad term: they might've made their minds up by now, but haven't acted on anything, and they could claim to be investigating.) We can speculate all we want about these two different claims. But there has been no _official_ word that John Fenton has been fired, asked to resign, resigned, or been exonerated. As far as the facts are known right now, Fenton is still an employee of UCD. As far as I can tell, this is what Tony's been saying, and somehow many people here fail to grasp this. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html. = AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
Fwd: [UC] Reality check
I thought I saw Marty's name on the board list for UCD when I checked earlier this month. I understand he was very present at the first Thursday with Jannie. Seems like he should have been the usual suspect for the committeeman7 message. Right? Paul -Original Message- From: Glenn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN [EMAIL PROTECTED]; University City List UnivCity@list.purple.com Sent: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 6:25 pm Subject: Re: [UC] Reality check - Original Message - From: UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: University City List UnivCity@list.purple.com Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 5:15 PM Subject: Re: [UC] Reality check KAREN ALLEN wrote: I thought John Fenton was under a gag order. If that's the case, he's not in a position to refute anything. open questions: are the other ucd employees that were involved with the malcolm x park incident also under gag orders? Excellent question! I hope they haven't been placed on a 2 week leave. also, is it true that marty and glenn bryan were removed from ucd's board? when? were any reasons given why? OK. This is what I know. I remember that Marty Cabry was on the UCD Board at the very beginning. Maybe 1999 or 2001? I had heard a long time ago that he had been removed rather than having quit. For me, the Councilmanwoman just confirmed what I had heard a long time ago. What I think I heard on Thurs.? Councilwoman Blackwell suggesting that both he and Glenn Bryan were removed because of the long working relationship with her. I missed when Glenn Bryan was actually on the Board. It's my opinion that she is confirming what I've asserted, a UCD demand for secrecy. A working relationship should have open communication pathways. Whether it's between a civic association and their members, or between a UCD and the community's elected representative; open communication needs to be encouraged. I have no other information, but I think I understand her complaint. Why should she not have a representative on the board with whom she has a working relationship? The community depends on her to get the best information about what is going on, and if her contacts are removed; the open communication is blocked. and, is the full text of wendell's statement available publicly? when he read it at last thursday's meeting, did he just happen to have a copy with him, or had he been planning on reading it? He read it when, I believe both Freda and I, called out, will you confirm or deny what the Councilwoman is telling us. He did not offer any copies of the statement, but read it from a paper. That's what I experienced, Glenn .. UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN [aka laserbeam®] [aka ray] SERIAL LIAR. CALL FOR RATES. It is very clear on this listserve who these people are. Ray has admitted being connected to this forger. -- Tony West __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.15/847 - Release Date: 6/12/2007 9:42 PM You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html. AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
Fwd: [UC] Reality check
Well, I think you overlooked another possibility known to employment law:? your employer doesn't say you're fired, but the law treats you as fired.? Paperwork may say you resigned, for example, but evidence shows you were told resign or be fired.?? Or all of your responsibilities are taken away, you get sent to an outpost with no equipment until you quit, but then claim a constructive discharge. Paul -Original Message- From: Anthony West [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: UnivCity@list.purple.com Sent: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 6:28 pm Subject: Re: [UC] Reality check Liz, ? Perhaps you have been self-employed so long, you don't know what it means to be fired. I am an employee. I have been an employee for most of the last 30 years. Let me explain to you how it works. ? If Councilwoman Blackwell says one of her own employees was fired -- that employee was fired. If she says somebody else's employee was fired -- that is not official information and it is trumped by the statement of that employee's real employer. ? If Councilwoman Blackwell says I am fired, that means nothing. If the President or the Pope says I am fired, that means nothing. If you or Glenn says I am fired, that means nothing. If a straw poll of UC-list says I am fired, that means nothing. If my boss says I am fired, that means I am fired. ? AQt last Thursday's meeting, 70 witnesses heard John Fenton's boss say Fenton is on paid administrative leave. You cannot be on paid administrative leave AND fired at the same time; they are mutually contradictory conditions. Therefore, Fenton hasn't been fired. His job might be in all sorts of peril, but he is not fired. This?is a common possibility of?real life, for most real employees. ? So Fenton isn't fired, as of today. You were at that meeting and you heard Wendell restate Fenton has not been fired. So there you are. ? -- Tony West - Original Message - From: Elizabeth F Campion To: UnivCity@list.purple.com Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 12:14 PM Subject: Re: [UC] Reality check I was also at the meeting. I do not remember either side making?many fact based?declarative statements. But there were lots of distractions and I may have missed a few words. ? I did not hear Lewis Wendell state either of: ??? John Fenton has?NOT been fired or ??? John Fenton?HAS been fired. LW?read?a statement that referred to suspension pending?an ongoing internal investigation. I believe most in the room hear it as some version of, UCD hopes John resigns so that we won't have to fire him. ? Several people referred to a Termination package which would allow John to resign, and receive 6 months benefit. I do not remember LW making any comments regarding this. Such a package may be better than sending John back to work in a tainted environment, but maybe?a better paradigm for all of us could be reached. IF UCD and JF could?achieve public and private accommodations, it?could catalyses work place toxins into?useful compounds benefiting the people, institutions and neighborhoods that are?affected.? Such success could be a model for others undergoing work place traumas. ? I like Lewis Wendell, John Fenton and Councilwoman Jannie Blackwell. ? Lewis is a good neighbor. I have learned much from him, and in listening to him I have developed more informed views of our neighborhood. For me personally, he has been a voice for introspection and good. I do not know how much of this?brouhaha results from?his decisions, but I?was sorry to see the Lord of the Flies attacks on his character. Two wrongs do not make a right. ? Jannie is a friend and hero. She defied a Mayor and was arrested in the best of civil protests, FEEDING THE HUNGRY. Even those who did not agree with her methods were forced to think about the problem and more viable solutions. She is not perfect, no one is. But I trust her heart, resilience and stamina. ? John has been the type of guy we?want to?call family. He has been helpful, accessible, cheery, accommodating and effective. I do not know how well anyone's work would survive a rigid investigation. In my experience, speed and effectiveness can sometimes require corner cutting and?mutual back scratching. I know I would not want my work life disrupted?by internal or external audit. And I don't like the idea that everything he has done will be put under a microscope based upon reaction to gossip and a news report which may pan out to be little more than juicy hyperbole born?of the creative whining of a PENN miscreant. ? IMHO, these three people are strong, effective, intelligent and grounded in good will. They could be powerful enemies or a magnificent force for good.
