Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] Ubuntu vs Fedora
> Nano > clearly follows the vi/vim mode, but its not much of an improvement over > vi. Long live joe! It uses the same keyboard shortcuts as every WordStar or Turbo Pascal for DOS version _ever_ :-P -- Michael ___ unix mailing list unix@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/unix
Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] Ubuntu vs Fedora
snarlydwarf;550971 Wrote: > > vi does seem painful at first, but once you learn a certain amount of > it, it is a great productivity tool. I think that should read 'vi -is- painful at first...' -- bhaagensen bhaagensen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7418 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=79161 ___ unix mailing list unix@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/unix
Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] Ubuntu vs Fedora
gharris999 wrote: > Why this devotion to vi? Just because some version of vi has been included in every unix-like OS over the past 25+ years, and it works just fine over a TTY or command line. The more the "visual" editors require something like X-windows. Nano clearly follows the vi/vim mode, but its not much of an improvement over vi. With vi, you can go anywhere, it is always installed. I even install it on my Windows boxes. Again, one of the reasons I install the GUI for servers is that during setup, its nice to have a decent editor. I actually kinda like vi, but I started programming on a PDP-10, which used "teco" as an editor. Teco was the first that I used with the "i" for insert mode up until you enter escape, just like vi. While teco was not visual, it had an awesome macro/programming capability. -- Pat Farrell http://www.pfarrell.com/ ___ unix mailing list unix@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/unix
Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] Ubuntu vs Fedora
Why this devotion to vi? I mean, I'm sure I still have neural pathways that are clogged with the motor memory of wordstar commands (I've caught myself typing ctrl+k+d in my sleep)...neural pathways that might otherwise be devoted to the remembrance of...I don't know...the sehnsucht of a particular sunset, say. Pretty much every distro includes nano out of the box. Is nano not manly enough as an editor? Inspired by a post from Robin Bowes, I now throw these scripts into /usr/local/sbin every time I set up a new linux box: nanosudo: Code: #!/bin/sh export VISUAL=nano visudo nanocrontab: Code: #!/bin/sh export VISUAL=nano crontab -e Thus: sudo nanosudo ..and sudo nanocrontab -- gharris999 gharris999's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=115 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=79161 ___ unix mailing list unix@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/unix
Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] Ubuntu vs Fedora
JJZolx;550960 Wrote: > > I certainly like the text/config file file approach for applications, > and have a little experience with it having admin'd some Apache and > MySQL servers on Windows. I'm not exactly sure how I'll back it all up > yet, with things seemingly scattered all over the file system. > It shouldn't be that hard. Most of your configuration is going to be in /etc. Back that up. A bit more is in /var in various places depending on what you have installed. /var/lib/mysql would be important if you used mySQL for something other than SBS... no big deal if the SBS database gets wiped, since a rescan would rebuild it anyway. /usr can almost certainly be ignored. You can always redownload the packages, so why bother backing it up. Save a list of installed packages (dpkg --get-selections) and you can restore the "what the heck was all the crap I installed" later with --set-selections. It's very easy to do this with rsync to a USB drive. I have a 'make-backup' script that does that for home. (And a MUCH more complex system at work... a dedicated backup server that rsyncs from several others and runs some scripts to adapt things... not just a backup, but a swappable server that can take over for another server in case of emergency.) > > Vi (vim) still gives me fits, but I learn a new trick every couple of > days that makes me go "ah, yes". I'm too lazy to sit down and try to > learn some of the things that I should know how to do in any editor. > And I figure I'll forget most of it anyway if I don't use it daily. > I've used vi (the real one!), nvi, and vile daily for .. ages. I still find new tricks, but most of the time my fingers just do the right thing. I can't stand clicky micey thingies since it means moving a hand over to the mouse, back to the keyboard, back to the mouse... vi does seem painful at first, but once you learn a certain amount of it, it is a great productivity tool. In my days of C programming (alas, I miss C some days but these days it's perl and php...), vi was a great IDE: I could start a 'make' and if there were errors from gcc, it would capture the lines and step me through each line that made gcc mad. I could grab a coredump and gdb would tell me where the program died, and could easily zip to the function even if it was scattered somewhere in a couple dozen source files. > > I'm still in the midst of trying to run multiple instances of SbS on > the box and have it almost figured out. This has involved writing > daemon init scripts and some additional shell scripts for managing > things like doing SVN updates. That's been fun. It is though I'm lazy enough I don't wanna run two servers. I get confused enough with one some days and remembering to change alarm times before I go to bed. -- snarlydwarf snarlydwarf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1179 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=79161 ___ unix mailing list unix@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/unix
Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] Ubuntu vs Fedora
AnotherTribe;550959 Wrote: > I throw Webmin on my headless Debian boxes allowing a GUI like interface > to many of the common administrative scripts & config files (including > IPtables). I did this too, just to see what it could do. But at this point I'm not sure it really buys me anything. I made the mistake of using it to modify the configuration of a server or two in which I'd already edited the config file (Samba and MySQL, IIRC) and while it doesn't break anything, it certainly makes an unholy mess out of the files. For the firewall, Ubuntu has ufw - "uncomplicated firewall" - which I understand is just a simplified iptables management tool. I'm not sure how uncomplicated it is, but undoubtedly less so than dealing directly with iptables. Reminds me of another bit of frustration - just figuring out whether or not the firewall was running by default (netfilter, right?). I'm pretty sure it's not by default, but I enabled it by enabling ufw and setting up the necessary rules for the various services on the box. And I also did a very un-Ubuntu like thing and enabled the root account. -- JJZolx Jim JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=79161 ___ unix mailing list unix@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/unix
Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] Ubuntu vs Fedora
gharris999;550949 Wrote: > If folks don't mind, I'll continue posting my Ubuntu server experiences > here and let you all run color commentary. As a Linux newbie, I'm following a similar path, having installed Ubuntu Server 8.04 a couple months ago, then recently upgrading it to 10.04. I elected to give myself a bit of a crash course in Linux by not installing a gui and doing everything from the command line. It's been, well, ... interesting. I spend a lot of time in google, sometimes not even knowing what question to ask. And I've bookmarked no less two dozen sites on Ubuntu and Linux that I sometimes just browse, trying to learn something by osmosis. I certainly like the text/config file file approach for applications, and have a little experience with it having admin'd some Apache and MySQL servers on Windows. I'm not exactly sure how I'll back it all up yet, with things seemingly scattered all over the file system. The file system hierarchy at this point still seems almost arbitrary. And many of the articles I've read about it have only enforced that view. Remembering where things are located in a directory structure full of cryptic three and four letter names has been one of the more difficult things to deal with. I'm getting used to /etc/init.d/ and /var/lib/, but the rest is still Chinese. Vi (vim) still gives me fits, but I learn a new trick every couple of days that makes me go "ah, yes". I'm too lazy to sit down and try to learn some of the things that I should know how to do in any editor. And I figure I'll forget most of it anyway if I don't use it daily. I'm still in the midst of trying to run multiple instances of SbS on the box and have it almost figured out. This has involved writing daemon init scripts and some additional shell scripts for managing things like doing SVN updates. That's been fun. -- JJZolx Jim JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=79161 ___ unix mailing list unix@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/unix
Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] Ubuntu vs Fedora
I throw Webmin on my headless Debian boxes allowing a GUI like interface to many of the common administrative scripts & config files (including IPtables). -- AnotherTribe AnotherTribe's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4118 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=79161 ___ unix mailing list unix@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/unix
Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] Ubuntu vs Fedora
If folks don't mind, I'll continue posting my Ubuntu server experiences here and let you all run color commentary. 1st regret: installing eBox. Pulls in way too much crap for not a whole lot of benefit as far as I can see. But, even after having added several ebox modules which pulled in yet more crap, a simple: apt-get autoremove ebox ..seems to get the job done. So, changing one's mind about adding a package seems to be fairly cost-free. So..let's terms this a 'minor regret'. -- gharris999 gharris999's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=115 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=79161 ___ unix mailing list unix@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/unix
Re: [SlimDevices: Unix] Ubuntu vs Fedora
you can do netinstall for debian. Downloading a minimal iso and installing a minimal debian results in about 300MB (If i remember this correctly), way easier to not select anything then in ubuntu. Kickstarting centos goes in the same region. In fact you can start install using a 10MB image and then pull the rest over the net (using http, with retries) All Sytems (debian, ubuntu, redhat) can be administrated without gui. It's about where is the focus in documentation, which method is presented first. And in the end there is alway vi ;) -- fragfutter You're obviously not a Linux person. If you were, you'd know that the most important feature of a GUI is the icon that opens a shell window. fragfutter's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=35184 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=79161 ___ unix mailing list unix@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/unix
