Re: Resizing stack window by scaling

[Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode]

Marty,

Thanks, that seems to be a good idea. I don’t have option menus, and I could 
reset the window position after the scaling.

Peter

> On Oct 20, 2017, at 4:11 PM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Peter,
> I was faced with the same issue and for me I ended up adding a "View" menu to 
> the menubar with user selectable sizes. Since scaleFactor was not really 
> meant to be used this way there are some drawbacks, the main one being that 
> the window will move on screen. It will not grow/shrink from the top-left 
> corner. I've also run into an issue with option menus. If you have more items 
> than fit and therefor require the menu items to scroll, it won't work - it 
> only works reliably at 100%
> 
> Marty
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I’m needing to allow the user resize a stack window using scaleFactor and am 
>> needing advice about interface.
>> 
>> First of all, I see that some Livecoders are using scripts to scale controls 
>> and text when the user drags the stack size larger or smaller. In my case, 
>> there are too many controls and text layout is too sensitive, and I really 
>> don’t need the improvement in resolution to use that method. In my case:
>> 1. Default size is good for most people
>> 2. Some have 12” laptops that make the window just a tad too large to fit
>> 3. Some have larger screens whereby they might want to expand the window to 
>> fill more space
>> 
>> For the too-small issue, I can automatically scale the window at start up. 
>> However, how do I present the choice to the user to manually make the window 
>> larger/smaller?
>> 
>> Clicking on the zoom box resizes the window, not scales it—no good. Is there 
>> a message that can be intercepted to scale instead of zoom?
>> 
>> Do I otherwise (working with the stack with size locked) add drag controls 
>> to the edges of the window that scales when dragged? Does anyone have 
>> scripts for that?
>> 
>> Or should this be some kind of preference item?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Peter Bogdanoff
>> ArtsInteractive
>> 
> 
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Re: Interview wtth inventor of hypercard Bill Atkinson

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Richmond Mathewson write:

> RunRev did buy Metacard, but not at the start.
>
> I believe (this is where Heather can put us ALL straight) RunRev was
> initially designed as an alternative interface (front-end/GUI) to the
> MeatCard one.

Heather's asleep, so maybe I can help:

MetaCard premiered in 1992, and by the late '90s Crossworlds Computing 
(Kevin's first company) published a more feature-rich IDE that could run 
with that engine.


Dr. Raney actively encouraged that, and other IDEs like FreeGUI (a 
since-abandoned project to deliver more of a HyperCard-like feel).  He 
wrote the MC IDE for his own needs, and found it a good testament to the 
power of the language that others could serve their own needs by making 
tools and even complete IDEs with relative ease.  He used to say about 
those: "Let a thousand flowers bloom".


Around the turn of the century Kevin arranged a bundling agreement with 
MetaCard Corp.  This may have been about the same time Kevin changed the 
company name to Runtime Revolution Ltd.  During that time one could 
choose to purchase licenses for Revolution from Kevin's company or 
MetaCard from Scott's company, and presumably there was a royalty 
arrangement between them.


In 2003 LiveCode Ltd. acquired the MetaCard engine, and MetaCard ceased 
operations as a seller of the engine. The MetaCard IDE was released as 
open source under the MIT License at that time, so folks could maintain 
and extend it as long as they like.


A few years later Kevin rebranded both the company and the engine to 
become what they're known as today, LiveCode.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Mobile Device Physical Size

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Thank you for bringing this to the list, Ralph:

> On Richards talk yesterday I brought this up and I am moving it to the
> list.
>
> Say you have 3 Android devices:
> 1) Phone sized.
> 2) Note sized.
> 3) Tablet sized.
> It is entirely possible that these 3 devices have the same(or close)
> number x/y of pixels.
> How can I determine the physical size of mobile devices? Web browsers
> are able to determine the device size or at least a phone vs. tablet.
> I would like to change the screen layout based on the physical size.
>
> I can determine a phone vs. tablet for Apple devices because of the
> limited number of iOS devices.

But we don't know what Apple will come up with next, so ideally what we 
use can accommodate all devices on both iOS and Android, without having 
to hard-wire values for any specific brand or model.


Earlier versions of LC may have been different, but in recent versions 
it seems that LC's resolution-independence works very much like that of 
browsers (probably using the same OS APIs under the hood), using logical 
metrics rather than physical.  This allows devs to place objects 
reliably across devices where physical pixel density may vary.


I just ran a quick test to see how well that works:

Right now I have only two devices from my test pool charged, but they 
make for a good comparison because their pixel density difference: a 
mid-range phone (LG G Stylo) and a super-cheap tablet (Amazon Fire 7; 
lists for $49, can find on sale now and then for $39 - great for 
testing).  Given the price difference between the two, it's not 
surprising that this tablet has such low pixel density compared to the 
phone which is both higher res and physically smaller.


To quickly assess browser metrics I went to WhatIsMyScreenResolution.com 
in Firefox on each device.  For LC I added a "Screen Size" button to a 
test app to display the last two items from the screenRect function, 
along with the value returned from mobilePixelDensity().


Here are the results:

  Diag  PhysicalWebLiveCode PxDensity
        -
LG G Stylo Phone: 5.5"  720x1280  360x592  360x592   2
Amazon F7 Tablet: 7.0"  600x1024  600x976* 600x976   1

This is awesome.  It looks like the core team's work on resolution 
independence has paid off handsomely for us:  we can use the same 
general layout strategies web devs use with Responsive Design, with good 
placement using logical coordinates that automatically account for 
differences in density.


This is also good for our development workflow: leave your stack 
resizable, and once you have your resizeStack handler written you can 
test your object placement for any size by just grabbing the stack 
window's corner and moving it around.


I don't have my iOS devices with me at the moment, but it would be 
helpful to learn if any of you see any differences between the logical 
pixels reported by browsers and those in LC on iOS.



* Note: If you use Amazon's pre-installed Silk browser the vertical size 
of the Fire 7 is shown as 1024; apparently Silk reports the full screen 
while Firefox and LiveCode subtract the height of the button row at the 
bottom of the screen (48px) to reflect only usable space.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com


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Re: Resizing stack window by scaling

[Marty Knapp via use-livecode]

Hi Peter,
I was faced with the same issue and for me I ended up adding a "View" 
menu to the menubar with user selectable sizes. Since scaleFactor was 
not really meant to be used this way there are some drawbacks, the main 
one being that the window will move on screen. It will not grow/shrink 
from the top-left corner. I've also run into an issue with option menus. 
If you have more items than fit and therefor require the menu items to 
scroll, it won't work - it only works reliably at 100%


Marty

Hi,

I’m needing to allow the user resize a stack window using scaleFactor and am 
needing advice about interface.

First of all, I see that some Livecoders are using scripts to scale controls 
and text when the user drags the stack size larger or smaller. In my case, 
there are too many controls and text layout is too sensitive, and I really 
don’t need the improvement in resolution to use that method. In my case:
1. Default size is good for most people
2. Some have 12” laptops that make the window just a tad too large to fit
3. Some have larger screens whereby they might want to expand the window to 
fill more space

For the too-small issue, I can automatically scale the window at start up. 
However, how do I present the choice to the user to manually make the window 
larger/smaller?

Clicking on the zoom box resizes the window, not scales it—no good. Is there a 
message that can be intercepted to scale instead of zoom?

Do I otherwise (working with the stack with size locked) add drag controls to 
the edges of the window that scales when dragged? Does anyone have scripts for 
that?

Or should this be some kind of preference item?

Thanks,

Peter Bogdanoff
ArtsInteractive



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Re: Resizing stack window by scaling

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

This is probably too simple an answer, but for database applications, resizing 
of windows is not a feature they allow, and there is almost always a "minimum 
monitor size" requirement so that the form fits inside any window the system 
might draw. 

Windows has a feature to increase the monitor scaling, but beyond a certain 
point this can cause issues with software, and even Microsoft has issues 
drawing it's own windows when the scale factor is above a certain level! 

Apple has an Accessibility feature which allows screen zooming which those who 
have serious vision problems and own a Mac probably already know how to use. 

I guess I am saying that providing application scaling is not very common. What 
I would do is define several scales, and then allow users to choose a scale, 
then have procedures that redraw everything accordingly. Alternately, some have 
been able to create scrolling groups, so every stack/card would have one of 
these scrolling groups, so that if the window was made smaller than the 
smallest size you allow, you would revert to usign the scrolling group. 

Another thing I have been doing in my app is creating tabs. I group all 
controls belonging to a tab then name the group like the tab, so selecting a 
tab hides all the groups then shows it's respective tab. This has worked really 
nicely, so that no I can have a card that can display customers, sites, 
devices, contacts etc. all by selecting a tab. 

The moral of the story is that you can never get ten pounds of potatoes in a 
five pound sack. Either your sack is too small or you have too many potatoes. 
But you CAN have more sacks! 

Bob S


> On Oct 20, 2017, at 15:14 , Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I’m needing to allow the user resize a stack window using scaleFactor and am 
> needing advice about interface.
> 
> First of all, I see that some Livecoders are using scripts to scale controls 
> and text when the user drags the stack size larger or smaller. In my case, 
> there are too many controls and text layout is too sensitive, and I really 
> don’t need the improvement in resolution to use that method. In my case:
> 1. Default size is good for most people
> 2. Some have 12” laptops that make the window just a tad too large to fit
> 3. Some have larger screens whereby they might want to expand the window to 
> fill more space
> 
> For the too-small issue, I can automatically scale the window at start up. 
> However, how do I present the choice to the user to manually make the window 
> larger/smaller?
> 
> Clicking on the zoom box resizes the window, not scales it—no good. Is there 
> a message that can be intercepted to scale instead of zoom?
> 
> Do I otherwise (working with the stack with size locked) add drag controls to 
> the edges of the window that scales when dragged? Does anyone have scripts 
> for that?
> 
> Or should this be some kind of preference item?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Peter Bogdanoff
> ArtsInteractive

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Resizing stack window by scaling

[Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode]

Hi,

I’m needing to allow the user resize a stack window using scaleFactor and am 
needing advice about interface.

First of all, I see that some Livecoders are using scripts to scale controls 
and text when the user drags the stack size larger or smaller. In my case, 
there are too many controls and text layout is too sensitive, and I really 
don’t need the improvement in resolution to use that method. In my case:
1. Default size is good for most people
2. Some have 12” laptops that make the window just a tad too large to fit
3. Some have larger screens whereby they might want to expand the window to 
fill more space

For the too-small issue, I can automatically scale the window at start up. 
However, how do I present the choice to the user to manually make the window 
larger/smaller?

Clicking on the zoom box resizes the window, not scales it—no good. Is there a 
message that can be intercepted to scale instead of zoom?

Do I otherwise (working with the stack with size locked) add drag controls to 
the edges of the window that scales when dragged? Does anyone have scripts for 
that?

Or should this be some kind of preference item?

Thanks,

Peter Bogdanoff
ArtsInteractive



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Re: Interview wtth inventor of hypercard Bill Atkinson

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Hmmm... I find the basis of the article somewhat simplistic. I suppose you 
could go back far enough with anything, and say it is an old idea produced in a 
new way. For instance, the dissemination of information via writing has been 
around for millenia, but someone made a way to do it electronically. Eggs, and 
also Bagels have been around, but I put them together in this amazing breakfast 
sandwich with sausage and spicy pickles and hash browns and Habanero sauce... 
wait what was I talking about?? Oh yeah, old ideas in a new way! 

As Solomon pointed out, there is nothing new under the sun. (If you go back far 
enough to some basic concept). 

Bob S


> On Oct 20, 2017, at 12:29 , Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> By the way, according to this article, we already knew
> which could be the next breakthrough in technological
> progress... but, we don't know who will pour their blood,
> sweat and tears to build and sell it to the people.
> 
> https://zurb.com/blog/the-next-big-innovation-it-s-already-10-o


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Re: Interview wtth inventor of hypercard Bill Atkinson

[Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode]

A lot of what he is talking about here is what they are now calling Machine
Learning. I didn't 'fully' understand how this worked. But a few paragraphs
from Mr Atkinson here helped me immensely. I'm all the better for it.
Thanks, Bill, on so many levels.

Sean Cole
*Pi Digital Productions Ltd*
www.pidigital.co.uk
+44(1634)402193
+44(7702)116447
'Don't try to think outside the box. Just remember the truth: There is no
box!'
'For then you realise it is not the box you are trying to look outside of,
but it is yourself!'

eMail Ts & Cs    Pi Digital
Productions Ltd is a UK registered limited company, no. 5255609

On 20 October 2017 at 20:29, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> By the way, according to this article, we already knew
> which could be the next breakthrough in technological
> progress... but, we don't know who will pour their blood,
> sweat and tears to build and sell it to the people.
>
> https://zurb.com/blog/the-next-big-innovation-it-s-already-10-o
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 2:20 PM, Alejandro Tejada 
> wrote:
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Being English my second language, frequently I have to
> > read again (and reread some time after) many of the
> > messages that I post in the mail list and in the forum.
> >
> > In the forum, we could simply edit, reedit and edit again
> > any message until it means what we meant... but in the
> > mail list that is not possible.
> >
> > After reading again my message about the origin of HyperCard,
> > I found that it's easy, very easy, to understand that in my
> > message I am dismissing Bill Atkinson's breakthrough as
> > an intentional copy of previous works.
> >
> > That was NOT my intention. If Bill Atkinson says the he
> > invented HyperCard under the effects of LSD, then we have
> > to believe him... but when you read about any topic, it's logical
> > and necessary to learn and analyze other people's opinions.
> >
> > I already written about Walter Cooke and Paul Helckel opinions,
> > so here is my own opinion:
> >
> > HyperCard was so successful as an innovative breakthrough
> > because it followed the natural path of technological
> > progress. Hypercard was the next step in
> > computer advancement.
> >
> > Who is credited with the conceptual foundation of HyperText?
> > Vannevar Bush with his description of the "Memex":
> > http://www.archivejournal.net/notes/as-we-may-now-think/
> >
> > While Vannever Bush described a mechanical device,
> > electronic engineers where already creating the foundations
> > of computer science and demonstrating that numbers could
> > represent and store texts, images and sounds:
> > http://royal.pingdom.com/2008/04/08/the-history-of-computer-
> > data-storage-in-pictures/
> >
> > After the creation of text-only hypertext systems,
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypertext
> > Which was the next logical step in technological
> > progress?
> >
> > The creation of an Image and Text hypertext system.
> > On Macintosh, it's name was HyperCard.
> >
> > Al
> >
> >
> >
> >
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Re: Interview wtth inventor of hypercard Bill Atkinson

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

On 10/20/17 12:36 PM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote:
For every single Shakespeare play barring "The Merry Wives of Windsor" 
there is a play that Shakespeare "ripped-off".


So, does that make him a plagiarist and a prize plonker?


Plagiarism is a direct copy, or one similar enough to seem like a copy. 
You can't copyright ideas, they are free for anyone to use as long as 
the actual implementation is different. That's why it isn't stealing to 
reproduce the idea of hypelinked text and content. It's only stealing if 
you swipe the code and assets.


There were no such distinctions back in Sharespeare's day but there is 
now, and HyperCard falls under that jurisdiction.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: Interview wtth inventor of hypercard Bill Atkinson

[Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode]

By the way, according to this article, we already knew
which could be the next breakthrough in technological
progress... but, we don't know who will pour their blood,
sweat and tears to build and sell it to the people.

https://zurb.com/blog/the-next-big-innovation-it-s-already-10-o


On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 2:20 PM, Alejandro Tejada 
wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Being English my second language, frequently I have to
> read again (and reread some time after) many of the
> messages that I post in the mail list and in the forum.
>
> In the forum, we could simply edit, reedit and edit again
> any message until it means what we meant... but in the
> mail list that is not possible.
>
> After reading again my message about the origin of HyperCard,
> I found that it's easy, very easy, to understand that in my
> message I am dismissing Bill Atkinson's breakthrough as
> an intentional copy of previous works.
>
> That was NOT my intention. If Bill Atkinson says the he
> invented HyperCard under the effects of LSD, then we have
> to believe him... but when you read about any topic, it's logical
> and necessary to learn and analyze other people's opinions.
>
> I already written about Walter Cooke and Paul Helckel opinions,
> so here is my own opinion:
>
> HyperCard was so successful as an innovative breakthrough
> because it followed the natural path of technological
> progress. Hypercard was the next step in
> computer advancement.
>
> Who is credited with the conceptual foundation of HyperText?
> Vannevar Bush with his description of the "Memex":
> http://www.archivejournal.net/notes/as-we-may-now-think/
>
> While Vannever Bush described a mechanical device,
> electronic engineers where already creating the foundations
> of computer science and demonstrating that numbers could
> represent and store texts, images and sounds:
> http://royal.pingdom.com/2008/04/08/the-history-of-computer-
> data-storage-in-pictures/
>
> After the creation of text-only hypertext systems,
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypertext
> Which was the next logical step in technological
> progress?
>
> The creation of an Image and Text hypertext system.
> On Macintosh, it's name was HyperCard.
>
> Al
>
>
>
>
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Re: Interview wtth inventor of hypercard Bill Atkinson

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

RunRev did buy Metacard, but not at the start.

I believe (this is where Heather can put us ALL straight) RunRev was 
initially designed as an alternative interface (front-end/GUI) to the

MeatCard one.

I don't think RunRev ever plagiarised, especially as they always gave 
credit to Metacard.


Now, wehter Supercard or Metacard plagiarised is not for me to say: and 
while the lawyers may, I don't really care: that was NOT

the thrust of my post.

Richmond.

On 10/20/17 9:51 pm, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:

Actually, RunRev BOUGHT Metacard didn't they? So they owned it, which is why 
that is not plagiarism. But saying that a pure copy is the only form that can 
be called plagiarism doesn't hold water in a court of law. If it can be shown 
that enough sections of code are identical in  form and function to the 
original, especially if it can be demonstrated that the original code was 
modified to produce the new, then THAT is plagiarism pure and simple.

Bob S



On Oct 20, 2017, at 10:36 , Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode 
 wrote:

as the rip-off or HyperCard with a new front-end strapped on the front (i.e. 
LiveCode) is a bigger and
better beast than either Hypercard or MetaCard ever were.


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Re: Interview wtth inventor of hypercard Bill Atkinson

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Actually, RunRev BOUGHT Metacard didn't they? So they owned it, which is why 
that is not plagiarism. But saying that a pure copy is the only form that can 
be called plagiarism doesn't hold water in a court of law. If it can be shown 
that enough sections of code are identical in  form and function to the 
original, especially if it can be demonstrated that the original code was 
modified to produce the new, then THAT is plagiarism pure and simple. 

Bob S


> On Oct 20, 2017, at 10:36 , Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> as the rip-off or HyperCard with a new front-end strapped on the front (i.e. 
> LiveCode) is a bigger and
> better beast than either Hypercard or MetaCard ever were.


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Re: Interview wtth inventor of hypercard Bill Atkinson

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

Ah widnae channer owermuch anent that Sudron is thon secont leid,
monie o us hae it as war secont leid, forbye.

I would not fuss a lot that English is your second language,
a lot of us have it as our second language as well.

An, eftir monie a towmond abune the Kinrick, Ah mynd Bulgarian
is mair ma secont leid than the Sudron! Eftir aa, its mair yaisefou
intil the gates oh ma life juist nou.

And, after many years outwith the "UK", Bulgarian is fast becoming
my second language instead of English. It is, after all, more useful
in my daily life at present.

Ah fair forjeskit that aa this has tae be in Sudron, as that leid is in 
ma hairns,

but insnae in ma hairt.

Richmond.

On 10/20/17 9:20 pm, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode wrote:

Hi All,

Being English my second language, frequently I have to
read again (and reread some time after) many of the
messages that I post in the mail list and in the forum.

In the forum, we could simply edit, reedit and edit again
any message until it means what we meant... but in the
mail list that is not possible.

After reading again my message about the origin of HyperCard,
I found that it's easy, very easy, to understand that in my
message I am dismissing Bill Atkinson's breakthrough as
an intentional copy of previous works.

That was NOT my intention. If Bill Atkinson says the he
invented HyperCard under the effects of LSD, then we have
to believe him... but when you read about any topic, it's logical
and necessary to learn and analyze other people's opinions.

I already written about Walter Cooke and Paul Helckel opinions,
so here is my own opinion:

HyperCard was so successful as an innovative breakthrough
because it followed the natural path of technological
progress. Hypercard was the next step in
computer advancement.

Who is credited with the conceptual foundation of HyperText?
Vannevar Bush with his description of the "Memex":
http://www.archivejournal.net/notes/as-we-may-now-think/

While Vannever Bush described a mechanical device,
electronic engineers where already creating the foundations
of computer science and demonstrating that numbers could
represent and store texts, images and sounds:
http://royal.pingdom.com/2008/04/08/the-history-of-computer-data-storage-in-pictures/

After the creation of text-only hypertext systems,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypertext
Which was the next logical step in technological
progress?

The creation of an Image and Text hypertext system.
On Macintosh, it's name was HyperCard.

Al
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Re: is a date

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Because Friday, October 20, 2017 is also a date. So is 2017-10-20. So is 
2017/10/20. So is 17/10/20 amd 9/20/17. 

Bob S


> On Oct 20, 2017, at 08:43 , trevix via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> How about this:
> 
> function IsDate pDate, pSysDate
> 
> if pSysDate then
> 
> put char 3 of the short system dateformat into tDelimiter
> 
> else
> 
> put char 3 of the short dateformat into tDelimiter
> 
> end if
> 
> if tDelimiter is in pDate and pDate is a date then return true
> 
> return false
> 
> end IsDate
> 
> trevix
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Interview wtth inventor of hypercard Bill Atkinson

[Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode]

Hi All,

Being English my second language, frequently I have to
read again (and reread some time after) many of the
messages that I post in the mail list and in the forum.

In the forum, we could simply edit, reedit and edit again
any message until it means what we meant... but in the
mail list that is not possible.

After reading again my message about the origin of HyperCard,
I found that it's easy, very easy, to understand that in my
message I am dismissing Bill Atkinson's breakthrough as
an intentional copy of previous works.

That was NOT my intention. If Bill Atkinson says the he
invented HyperCard under the effects of LSD, then we have
to believe him... but when you read about any topic, it's logical
and necessary to learn and analyze other people's opinions.

I already written about Walter Cooke and Paul Helckel opinions,
so here is my own opinion:

HyperCard was so successful as an innovative breakthrough
because it followed the natural path of technological
progress. Hypercard was the next step in
computer advancement.

Who is credited with the conceptual foundation of HyperText?
Vannevar Bush with his description of the "Memex":
http://www.archivejournal.net/notes/as-we-may-now-think/

While Vannever Bush described a mechanical device,
electronic engineers where already creating the foundations
of computer science and demonstrating that numbers could
represent and store texts, images and sounds:
http://royal.pingdom.com/2008/04/08/the-history-of-computer-data-storage-in-pictures/

After the creation of text-only hypertext systems,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypertext
Which was the next logical step in technological
progress?

The creation of an Image and Text hypertext system.
On Macintosh, it's name was HyperCard.

Al
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Re: Interview wtth inventor of hypercard Bill Atkinson

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

For every single Shakespeare play barring "The Merry Wives of Windsor" 
there is a play that Shakespeare "ripped-off".


So, does that make him a plagiarist and a prize plonker?

No, it doesn't, for the simple reason that the plays he ripped-off had 
crap dialogues and were second or third-rate:


Auld Willie rejigged the dialogues, rejhigged the plots and produced 
marvellous things: he, to coin a phrase


"did make silk purses out of pigs' ears".

So, even if Bill Atkinson either intentionally or unintentionally 
ripped-off IBM's "whatever"
(rather in the same sort of way MetaCard was a rip-off of 
Hypercard!),


his Hypercard was something rather better,

as the rip-off or HyperCard with a new front-end strapped on the front 
(i.e. LiveCode) is a bigger and

better beast than either Hypercard or MetaCard ever were.

While plagiarism is plagiarism is plagiarism is 100% shameless rip-off,

plagiarism is JUST copying with nothing added or improved on,m

and Hypercard, MetaCard and Revolution/LiveCode are not JUST copies,

in each case there have been both incremental and large leaps which have 
taken

them well beyond what they were supposedly "ripping off".

Oh, and while we're here:

in 1989 I was able to use a Windowing GUI on a BBC Master Compact that 
looked very similar indeed to what Apple was pushing

at that time;

both "ripped off" from IBM.

Later on Microsoft, supposedly, ripped the Windows 95 GUI from Mac, and 
the Linux distros just helped themselves.


Should we care?

No, we shouldn't, because all that will happen is that a load of lawyers 
will get fat through pursuing parasitical

legal cases.

Let's just be VERY GRATEFUL indeed that people such as Bill Atkinson, 
Scott Rossi and Kevin Miller didn't
spend hours agonising over nonsense like this and just got on with the 
job, whether on drugs at the time or not.


Richmond.

On 10/20/17 12:42 am, Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote:

I wasn't aware that there was objections and controversies when it comes to
this everything has a deeper history than just the surface I guess.

Forgive my ignorance on the subject.  Gonna leave this skeleton right where
it is though.

On Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 4:48 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:


Wasn't yesterday VisiCalc's birthday?  If ever there was a case of IP
ripoff, it was that one.

On Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 4:24 PM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:


Tom Glod wrote:

Here is a great interview with Bill. in which he reveals 
among other things.. that when he invented Hypercard he was 

If you ask Walter Cooke, he answers:

"I too miss HyperCard, but I also used Xerox's Notecards software BEFORE
Bill invented Apple's version for the Macintosh.

Google "Xerox Notecards" to read some history of where the concept and OO
implementation originated. Poor Xerox - they invented so much but

couldn't

market their way out of a wet paper bag. A lot of educators were very
impressed with Notecards and wanted at their universities real bad. The
military loved it for buiding real-time visual simulations. I wanted to

use

it for building bond trading software. Unfortunately Xerox workstation

cost

$30K apiece at that time!

I remember arguing with Andy Hertzfeld at the '87 MacWorld Expo where
HyperCard was announced and demoed on the sexy new Mac II. He was adamant
that HyperCard bore no resemblance to Notecards, but grudgingly agreed

that

he HAD seen Notecards at Xerox and knew what it was. Hmmm.."

http://post.spmailt.com/f/a/ioIEMDuP10-XlG589Hs0Zg~~/AAGp3AA~/RgRbyk_cP0EIACz0hAuIUUJXA3NwY1gEAFkGc2hhcmVkYQdoZWxsb18xYAw1Mi4zOS4yNi4xNDRCCgAAXBzpWct516ZSHXVzZS1saXZlY29kZUBsaXN0cy5ydW5yZXYuY29tCVEEAEQyaHR0cHM6Ly9hcHBsZS5zbGFzaGRvdC5vcmcvc3RvcnkvMDQvMDMvMzEvMTU1MDIxNi9HAnt9

hypercard-gone-for-good

BUT if you ask Paul Heckel, he would say:
"Zoomracks was first..."

http://post.spmailt.com/f/a/pBqWSS-9L0TY6juiDLxQgg~~/AAGp3AA~/RgRbyk_cP0EIACz0hAuIUUJXA3NwY1gEAFkGc2hhcmVkYQdoZWxsb18xYAw1Mi4zOS4yNi4xNDRCCgAAXBzpWct516ZSHXVzZS1saXZlY29kZUBsaXN0cy5ydW5yZXYuY29tCVEEAEQ2aHR0cDovL3d3dy5hdGFyaW1hZ2F6aW5lcy5jb20vc3RhcnR2Mm4zL2h5cGVyY2FyZC5odG1sRwJ7fQ~~

And now that I remember Paul Heckel, read about his winning lawsuit

against

Apple for patent-infringement:
http://post.spmailt.com/f/a/GP1VFaIec0p7bLPgLJisoA~~/AAGp3AA~/RgRbyk_cP0EIACz0hAuIUUJXA3NwY1gEAFkGc2hhcmVkYQdoZWxsb18xYAw1Mi4zOS4yNi4xNDRCCgAAXBzpWct516ZSHXVzZS1saXZlY29kZUBsaXN0cy5ydW5yZXYuY29tCVEEAEQ5aHR0cDovL3d3dy5ueXRpbWVzLmNvbS8xOTg5LzEyLzIwL2J1c2luZXNzL2FwcGxlLWlzLXNhaWQtRwJ7fQ~~
to-settle-suit.html

Al
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Mobile Device Physical Size

[Ralph DiMola via use-livecode]

On Richards talk yesterday I brought this up and I am moving it to the list.

Say you have 3 Android devices:
1) Phone sized.
2) Note sized.
3) Tablet sized.
It is entirely possible that these 3 devices have the same(or close) number
x/y of pixels.
How can I determine the physical size of mobile devices? Web browsers are
able to determine the device size or at least a phone vs. tablet. I would
like to change the screen layout based on the physical size.

I can determine a phone vs. tablet for Apple devices because of the limited
number of iOS devices.


Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net


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Re: is a date

[trevix via use-livecode]

How about this:

function IsDate pDate, pSysDate

if pSysDate then

put char 3 of the short system dateformat into tDelimiter

else

put char 3 of the short dateformat into tDelimiter

end if

if tDelimiter is in pDate and pDate is a date then return true

return false

end IsDate

trevix
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Re: [OT] Myst and The Manhole

[Jim Lambert via use-livecode]

Last year my wife and I visited Meow Wolf’s House of Eternal Return.
It was clear there was a Myst-like puzzle at the heart of it.
But we didn’t bother much trying to figure it out.
It was just splendid fun to walk, dash, crawl, slide and climb through the 
wacky spaces.
Even 67 year olds can get a kick out of climbing into a washing machine only to 
pop suddenly out of a refrigerator, much to the startled consternation of the 
people standing in the ‘kitchen’.

Jim Lambert
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