Re: What's the difference between LC 'shell' and OSX terminal?
Thanks to Roger Eller and Mike Bonner - shell is a function! Of course it is,
it says so in the LS documentation, even though the examples don't show it
embedded in a function-using script.
I got it wrong because I didn't read the docs closely enough - I imagined that
it was a handler that acted exactly like a command line in Terminal - but of
course it also returns a result!
Anyway that particular problem is solved along with the earlier one about paths
(thanks Andre Garzia) and I can now run IM from shell.
Graham
On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 11:20:49 -0400, Roger Eller
wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 10:40 AM, Graham Samuel wrote:
>
>> Thanks to all who replied.
>>
>> in Terminal, and got:
>>
>> /opt/local/bin/convert
>>
>> I don't exactly know what 'opt' is, but I can open /opt/local/bin/ in the
>> Mac Finder, so it exists OK, and it contains a file 'convert' as expected.
>> Anyway I tried doing this in the LS message box:
>>
>> shell(/opt/local/bin/convert)
>>
>> and got:
>>
>> Message execution error:
>> Error description: Handler: can't find handler
>> Hint: shell(/opt/local/bin/convert)
>
>
> You are so close. :-)
>
> "and got:" is the clue. You could not have "got" unless you first GET.
> Also, quotes around the path should help.
>
> Try this in the message box:
>
> get shell("/opt/local/bin/convert")
>
> ?Roger
And Mike Bonner wrote (in part):
To: How to use LiveCode
Wasn't real clear there.. Yes shell is a function, but livecode uses subtle
clues to interpret what is what. So a function on a line by itself with no
way to handle the output is instead seen as a handler because the engine is
making its best guess. And since there is no handler named shell() you get
the error message you see.
As soon as you include some way of using what the function returns the
engine is back in happy land.
As mentioned by everyone though, spaces and strange chars in paths and
commands can cause funky results including a handler not found as above all
depending on how the engine guesses.
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Re: What's the difference between LC 'shell' and OSX terminal?
thanks guys. Phil's snippet in the archives was educational:
There are always variations of unix commands that will do what one wants.
sqb
On 29 October 2011 12:11, Phil Davis wrote:
> You can get the Shell Command Help plugin from Rev Online. I use it almost
> every day. :-)
>
> Phil
>
>
>
> On 10/29/11 11:53 AM, Warren Samples wrote:
>
>> On 10/29/2011 12:59 PM, stephen barncard wrote:
>>
>>> on a side note regarding shell - I just ran this from the message box:
>>>
>>> put shell("man zip")
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> and got this text:
>>>
>>
>> Not an answer to your question, but that doesn't happen here running
>> Linux.
>>
>> Here is something from discussion of Phil Davis' Shell Command Help
>> plugin:
>>
>> http://lists.runrev.com/**pipermail/use-livecode/2011-**
>> January/151041.html
>>
>> and the next few messages.
>>
>> Warren
>>
>>
>>
>> __**_
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>>
>>
> --
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>
> PDS Labs
> Professional Software Development
> http://pdslabs.net
>
>
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Re: What's the difference between LC 'shell' and OSX terminal?
You can get the Shell Command Help plugin from Rev Online. I use it almost every
day. :-)
Phil
On 10/29/11 11:53 AM, Warren Samples wrote:
On 10/29/2011 12:59 PM, stephen barncard wrote:
on a side note regarding shell - I just ran this from the message box:
put shell("man zip")
and got this text:
Not an answer to your question, but that doesn't happen here running Linux.
Here is something from discussion of Phil Davis' Shell Command Help plugin:
http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2011-January/151041.html
and the next few messages.
Warren
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Professional Software Development
http://pdslabs.net
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Re: What's the difference between LC 'shell' and OSX terminal?
On 10/29/2011 12:59 PM, stephen barncard wrote:
on a side note regarding shell - I just ran this from the message box:
put shell("man zip")
and got this text:
Not an answer to your question, but that doesn't happen here running Linux.
Here is something from discussion of Phil Davis' Shell Command Help plugin:
http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2011-January/151041.html
and the next few messages.
Warren
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Re: What's the difference between LC 'shell' and OSX terminal?
on a side note regarding shell - I just ran this from the message box:
put shell("man zip")
and got this text:
(clip)
ZIP(1L)
ZIP(1L)
NNAAMMEE
zip - package and compress (archive) files
SSYYNNOOPPSSIISS
zziipp
[-aaAABBccddDDeeEEffFFgghhjjkkllLLmmooqqrrRRSSTTuuvvVVwwXXyyzz!!@@$$]
[--longoption ...] [-bb path]
[-nn suffixes] [-tt date] [- date] [_z_i_p_f_i_l_e [_f_i_l_e
...]] [--xxii list]
(/clip)
what is the text encoding in the man pages? In terminal the doubled
characters show up as boldface.
Stephen Barncard
San Francisco Ca. USA
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Re: What's the difference between LC 'shell' and OSX terminal?
Ah k yep. the double dash help is a pretty common unix'y thing, haven't used
IM to convert and no mac so couldn't test. Thx for clarifying!
On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 9:34 AM, Warren Samples wrote:
> On 10/29/2011 09:40 AM, Graham Samuel wrote:
>
> shell(/opt/local/bin/convert)
>>
>
> Mike's response contains all the correct information, but it can be
> distilled to this:
>
> change what you what you type into the message box to:
>
> put shell("/opt/local/bin/convert"**)
>
> This should display in the message box whatever the terminal displays after
> you type "convert" in Terminal and press enter.
>
> The "put" is what will cause the output to be displayed. On my machine,
> issuing the convert command without any args returns the help. This is not
> uncommon behavior for cli programs.
>
> Also I note that while it is very common to require two hyphens before
> whole word args, 'convert' doesn't seem to use any single letter args and
> only responds to single hyphen (as compiled on my machine) args. This is
> from the help itself: "-help print program options"
>
> Try:
>
> put shell("/opt/local/bin/convert -help")
>works for me here, but if not for you, then:
>
> put shell("/opt/local/bin/convert --help")
>
> In an application you might prefer to use "get" in place of "put" before
> your shell().
>
> Best,
>
> Warren
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: What's the difference between LC 'shell' and OSX terminal?
On 10/29/2011 09:40 AM, Graham Samuel wrote:
shell(/opt/local/bin/convert)
Mike's response contains all the correct information, but it can be
distilled to this:
change what you what you type into the message box to:
put shell("/opt/local/bin/convert")
This should display in the message box whatever the terminal displays
after you type "convert" in Terminal and press enter.
The "put" is what will cause the output to be displayed. On my machine,
issuing the convert command without any args returns the help. This is
not uncommon behavior for cli programs.
Also I note that while it is very common to require two hyphens before
whole word args, 'convert' doesn't seem to use any single letter args
and only responds to single hyphen (as compiled on my machine) args.
This is from the help itself: "-help print program options"
Try:
put shell("/opt/local/bin/convert -help")
works for me here, but if not for you, then:
put shell("/opt/local/bin/convert --help")
In an application you might prefer to use "get" in place of "put" before
your shell().
Best,
Warren
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Re: What's the difference between LC 'shell' and OSX terminal?
On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 10:40 AM, Graham Samuel wrote:
> Thanks to all who replied.
>
> in Terminal, and got:
>
> /opt/local/bin/convert
>
> I don't exactly know what 'opt' is, but I can open /opt/local/bin/ in the
> Mac Finder, so it exists OK, and it contains a file 'convert' as expected.
> Anyway I tried doing this in the LS message box:
>
> shell(/opt/local/bin/convert)
>
> and got:
>
> Message execution error:
> Error description: Handler: can't find handler
> Hint: shell(/opt/local/bin/convert)
You are so close. :-)
"and got:" is the clue. You could not have "got" unless you first GET.
Also, quotes around the path should help.
Try this in the message box:
get shell("/opt/local/bin/convert")
˜Roger
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Re: What's the difference between LC 'shell' and OSX terminal?
Wasn't real clear there.. Yes shell is a function, but livecode uses subtle
clues to interpret what is what. So a function on a line by itself with no
way to handle the output is instead seen as a handler because the engine is
making its best guess. And since there is no handler named shell() you get
the error message you see.
As soon as you include some way of using what the function returns the
engine is back in happy land.
As mentioned by everyone though, spaces and strange chars in paths and
commands can cause funky results including a handler not found as above all
depending on how the engine guesses.
On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 8:48 AM, Mike Bonner wrote:
> shell is a function, you have to actually do something with what is
> returned.
>
> notice if you do the following from the message box:
> shell() with nothing, you get handler not found
>
> If you do this instead
> put shell() you get bad parameter because you didn't give the function
> anything to work with.
>
> So, if you do
> put shell("/opt/local/bin/convert --help") you will most likely get the
> help text for convert.
>
> If you are doing it correctly, (IE as in the above examnple) and are still
> getting a handler error, there is something else going on.
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 8:40 AM, Graham Samuel wrote:
>
>> Thanks to all who replied.
>>
>> Just a brief reminder that I found I could invoke ImageMagick from
>> Terminal on my Mac, but not via 'shell' within an LC program on the same
>> machine.
>>
>> I really hoped that Andre's insight was right and that it was a path issue
>> - really because I understand what one of those is! Anyway on your advice,
>> Andre, I did:
>>
>> which convert
>>
>> in Terminal, and got:
>>
>> /opt/local/bin/convert
>>
>> I don't exactly know what 'opt' is, but I can open /opt/local/bin/ in the
>> Mac Finder, so it exists OK, and it contains a file 'convert' as expected.
>> Anyway I tried doing this in the LS message box:
>>
>> shell(/opt/local/bin/convert)
>>
>> and got:
>>
>> Message execution error:
>> Error description: Handler: can't find handler
>> Hint: shell(/opt/local/bin/convert)
>>
>> I then set the defaultFolder to /opt/local/bin/, and the Message Box
>> couldn't even recognise 'shell'!
>>
>> So very sadly, that didn't work. Neither did it work when I put the whole
>> shell argument in quotes, nor could shell find other commands such as
>> 'which' or 'cd' with or without the path data.
>>
>> Andre's solution seems so logical… any more suggestions? Incidentally, on
>> my machine shellCommand is set to:
>>
>> /bin/sh
>>
>> which AFAIK is what it's supposed to be.
>>
>> TIA
>>
>> Graham
>>
>> Thanks also to Mike Bonner for his advice on command lines (some of which
>> I understood, although I'd never heard of a profile in the sense Mike uses,
>> so I am a bit at sea there). Also, although currently I'm just
>> experimenting, I'm always looking for solutions which would work in a
>> complete cross-platform app built for people who just want to use the
>> computer as a tool. In that context any 'tinkering' with the environment
>> would have to be done via LS, and within that via shell, so as to protect my
>> user - I'm not sure if this is possible or not, but I'll keep trying to
>> understand it. In my encounters with ImageMagick the really interesting
>> thing I've learned so far is the philosophical difference between 'nix users
>> and Mac/PC users - it's geeks versus consumers really. I was once a geek
>> myself, in some pretty tough technical environments, but the reason I use LS
>> is because I stopped being one.
>>
>>
>>
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Re: What's the difference between LC 'shell' and OSX terminal?
shell is a function, you have to actually do something with what is
returned.
notice if you do the following from the message box:
shell() with nothing, you get handler not found
If you do this instead
put shell() you get bad parameter because you didn't give the function
anything to work with.
So, if you do
put shell("/opt/local/bin/convert --help") you will most likely get the help
text for convert.
If you are doing it correctly, (IE as in the above examnple) and are still
getting a handler error, there is something else going on.
On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 8:40 AM, Graham Samuel wrote:
> Thanks to all who replied.
>
> Just a brief reminder that I found I could invoke ImageMagick from Terminal
> on my Mac, but not via 'shell' within an LC program on the same machine.
>
> I really hoped that Andre's insight was right and that it was a path issue
> - really because I understand what one of those is! Anyway on your advice,
> Andre, I did:
>
> which convert
>
> in Terminal, and got:
>
> /opt/local/bin/convert
>
> I don't exactly know what 'opt' is, but I can open /opt/local/bin/ in the
> Mac Finder, so it exists OK, and it contains a file 'convert' as expected.
> Anyway I tried doing this in the LS message box:
>
> shell(/opt/local/bin/convert)
>
> and got:
>
> Message execution error:
> Error description: Handler: can't find handler
> Hint: shell(/opt/local/bin/convert)
>
> I then set the defaultFolder to /opt/local/bin/, and the Message Box
> couldn't even recognise 'shell'!
>
> So very sadly, that didn't work. Neither did it work when I put the whole
> shell argument in quotes, nor could shell find other commands such as
> 'which' or 'cd' with or without the path data.
>
> Andre's solution seems so logical… any more suggestions? Incidentally, on
> my machine shellCommand is set to:
>
> /bin/sh
>
> which AFAIK is what it's supposed to be.
>
> TIA
>
> Graham
>
> Thanks also to Mike Bonner for his advice on command lines (some of which I
> understood, although I'd never heard of a profile in the sense Mike uses, so
> I am a bit at sea there). Also, although currently I'm just experimenting,
> I'm always looking for solutions which would work in a complete
> cross-platform app built for people who just want to use the computer as a
> tool. In that context any 'tinkering' with the environment would have to be
> done via LS, and within that via shell, so as to protect my user - I'm not
> sure if this is possible or not, but I'll keep trying to understand it. In
> my encounters with ImageMagick the really interesting thing I've learned so
> far is the philosophical difference between 'nix users and Mac/PC users -
> it's geeks versus consumers really. I was once a geek myself, in some pretty
> tough technical environments, but the reason I use LS is because I stopped
> being one.
>
>
>
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Re: What's the difference between LC 'shell' and OSX terminal?
Thanks to all who replied. Just a brief reminder that I found I could invoke ImageMagick from Terminal on my Mac, but not via 'shell' within an LC program on the same machine. I really hoped that Andre's insight was right and that it was a path issue - really because I understand what one of those is! Anyway on your advice, Andre, I did: which convert in Terminal, and got: /opt/local/bin/convert I don't exactly know what 'opt' is, but I can open /opt/local/bin/ in the Mac Finder, so it exists OK, and it contains a file 'convert' as expected. Anyway I tried doing this in the LS message box: shell(/opt/local/bin/convert) and got: Message execution error: Error description: Handler: can't find handler Hint: shell(/opt/local/bin/convert) I then set the defaultFolder to /opt/local/bin/, and the Message Box couldn't even recognise 'shell'! So very sadly, that didn't work. Neither did it work when I put the whole shell argument in quotes, nor could shell find other commands such as 'which' or 'cd' with or without the path data. Andre's solution seems so logical… any more suggestions? Incidentally, on my machine shellCommand is set to: /bin/sh which AFAIK is what it's supposed to be. TIA Graham Thanks also to Mike Bonner for his advice on command lines (some of which I understood, although I'd never heard of a profile in the sense Mike uses, so I am a bit at sea there). Also, although currently I'm just experimenting, I'm always looking for solutions which would work in a complete cross-platform app built for people who just want to use the computer as a tool. In that context any 'tinkering' with the environment would have to be done via LS, and within that via shell, so as to protect my user - I'm not sure if this is possible or not, but I'll keep trying to understand it. In my encounters with ImageMagick the really interesting thing I've learned so far is the philosophical difference between 'nix users and Mac/PC users - it's geeks versus consumers really. I was once a geek myself, in some pretty tough technical environments, but the reason I use LS is because I stopped being one. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: What's the difference between LC 'shell' and OSX terminal?
On 10/28/2011 03:09 PM, Andre Garzia wrote: Try this on your terminal: which convert This will return the path to the convert command, in my case is: /usr/local/bin/convert So change your convert command in the shell to "/usr/local/bin/convert image.jpg blabla" and see if you can get it to work. (I may of course be wrong and the problem may lie elsewhere) Andre This would have been my suggestion if his shell() looked ok. It does point out a problem with using shell(), especially in OS X where things are very possibly not going to be installed in their standard *nix locations. A method to check for the location of an exectuable and if necessary, a way for the user to provide the path, should be provided. Warren ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: What's the difference between LC 'shell' and OSX terminal?
Graham,
This is probably a PATH issue. See when you launch your terminal, a bash
script is executed. You can think of this script as the code in
preOpenTerminal. Among other things, this script will set the PATH variable
which holds a list of folders to look for commands in. So when you use the
"convert" command, bash (which is the shell you are using in your terminal)
will look inside those folders for a convert command. When you execute
shell() on your LiveCode script, this bash initialization stuff is not run
so the PATH variable will hold other things and there is a chance that the
folder where imagemagick is installed is not there.
Try this on your terminal:
which convert
This will return the path to the convert command, in my case is:
/usr/local/bin/convert
So change your convert command in the shell to "/usr/local/bin/convert
image.jpg blabla" and see if you can get it to work.
(I may of course be wrong and the problem may lie elsewhere)
Andre
On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 2:52 PM, Graham Samuel wrote:
> While trying to get just a bit comfortable with a command-line interface, I
> started Terminal on Mac OSX Lion and eventually got a command to work (after
> finding out how to cope with spaces in file and folder names). I put the
> same thing in an LC 'shell' command and got a runtime error (Handler: can't
> find handler). I guess this is because in the Terminal context, the shell
> recognised the program I was calling ('convert' - it's dear old ImageMagick)
> but within my prog and the LS IDE it didn't. What do I need to do to get
> 'my' shell to be able to invoke the same apps that the raw terminal
> interface can? My guess is that it's something to do with a context variable
> like LS's defaultFolder, but I just don't know how to get there. Can anyone
> explain?
>
> TIA
>
> Graham
>
>
>
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Re: What's the difference between LC 'shell' and OSX terminal?
On 10/28/2011 12:53 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote: Is this in Windows or Mac? Im Mac to get usage for a shell command you have to preface it with man. I think it's short for manual. This only works if whatever installed the command in the shell also installed a man page. Bob Technically you are correct, he'll get "help" but for our purpose here "usage" seemed like an acceptable description of what he'll see. Beat me with a stick. Warren ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: What's the difference between LC 'shell' and OSX terminal?
Is this in Windows or Mac? Im Mac to get usage for a shell command you have to
preface it with man. I think it's short for manual. This only works if whatever
installed the command in the shell also installed a man page.
Bob
On Oct 28, 2011, at 7:06 AM, Warren Samples wrote:
> On 10/28/2011 11:52 AM, Graham Samuel wrote:
>> While trying to get just a bit comfortable with a command-line interface, I
>> started Terminal on Mac OSX Lion and eventually got a command to work (after
>> finding out how to cope with spaces in file and folder names). I put the
>> same thing in an LC 'shell' command and got a runtime error (Handler: can't
>> find handler). I guess this is because in the Terminal context, the shell
>> recognised the program I was calling ('convert' - it's dear old ImageMagick)
>> but within my prog and the LS IDE it didn't. What do I need to do to get
>> 'my' shell to be able to invoke the same apps that the raw terminal
>> interface can? My guess is that it's something to do with a context variable
>> like LS's defaultFolder, but I just don't know how to get there. Can anyone
>> explain?
>>
>> TIA
>>
>> Graham
>>
>
>
> Paste this in the message box:
>
> put shell("convert")
>
> and see what happens. You should get usage information from ImageMagick.
>
> To add a path to the input and output files inside the quoted shell command
> try surrounding the paths with single quotes.
>
> Warren
>
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Re: What's the difference between LC 'shell' and OSX terminal?
On 10/28/2011 11:52 AM, Graham Samuel wrote:
While trying to get just a bit comfortable with a command-line interface, I
started Terminal on Mac OSX Lion and eventually got a command to work (after
finding out how to cope with spaces in file and folder names). I put the same
thing in an LC 'shell' command and got a runtime error (Handler: can't find
handler). I guess this is because in the Terminal context, the shell recognised
the program I was calling ('convert' - it's dear old ImageMagick) but within my
prog and the LS IDE it didn't. What do I need to do to get 'my' shell to be
able to invoke the same apps that the raw terminal interface can? My guess is
that it's something to do with a context variable like LS's defaultFolder, but
I just don't know how to get there. Can anyone explain?
TIA
Graham
Paste this in the message box:
put shell("convert")
and see what happens. You should get usage information from ImageMagick.
To add a path to the input and output files inside the quoted shell
command try surrounding the paths with single quotes.
Warren
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Re: What's the difference between LC 'shell' and OSX terminal?
On 10/28/2011 11:52 AM, Graham Samuel wrote:
While trying to get just a bit comfortable with a command-line interface, I
started Terminal on Mac OSX Lion and eventually got a command to work (after
finding out how to cope with spaces in file and folder names). I put the same
thing in an LC 'shell' command and got a runtime error (Handler: can't find
handler). I guess this is because in the Terminal context, the shell recognised
the program I was calling ('convert' - it's dear old ImageMagick) but within my
prog and the LS IDE it didn't. What do I need to do to get 'my' shell to be
able to invoke the same apps that the raw terminal interface can? My guess is
that it's something to do with a context variable like LS's defaultFolder, but
I just don't know how to get there. Can anyone explain?
TIA
Graham
Graham, post the exact code you're trying to make work using Livecode's
shell() function so it can be debugged. The shell function should have
access to any command the terminal has access to.
Best,
Warren
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What's the difference between LC 'shell' and OSX terminal?
While trying to get just a bit comfortable with a command-line interface, I
started Terminal on Mac OSX Lion and eventually got a command to work (after
finding out how to cope with spaces in file and folder names). I put the same
thing in an LC 'shell' command and got a runtime error (Handler: can't find
handler). I guess this is because in the Terminal context, the shell recognised
the program I was calling ('convert' - it's dear old ImageMagick) but within my
prog and the LS IDE it didn't. What do I need to do to get 'my' shell to be
able to invoke the same apps that the raw terminal interface can? My guess is
that it's something to do with a context variable like LS's defaultFolder, but
I just don't know how to get there. Can anyone explain?
TIA
Graham
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