Re: What does 'shadows' mean?
Hi from Beautiful Brittany, Keith, I am sure we can come to an agreement about the beauty (and complexity) of the English Language, and its banana skins . and also the wonderful depth of the music of Pink Floyd. (although I do have a weak spot for Wish You Were Here) As each language has its strong points and its weak points, I can only fall back on the answer I give to people who ask me As a bilingual person (English/French), which language is the most powerful, which do you prefer ?. My answer is always the same : To define the workings of a four-stroke engine, I would always prefer English. To tell a woman how much I love her, I would always prefer French ! As England and Ireland have both been eliminated from the world Rugby cup, I am prepared to settle for a draw (1:1) concerning an alternative word for shadows. BUT - Concerning celestial bodies, LiveCode IS out of this world ! Best Regards -Francis ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: What does 'shadows' mean?
On 13 Oct 2011, at 12:46, Francis Nugent Dixon wrote: To define the workings of a four-stroke engine, I would always prefer English. To tell a woman how much I love her, I would always prefer French ! I once tried to explain the the (non)workings of a four-stroke engine to the woman I love - the language I used was... rather rapidly out of her earshot! ;-) Best, Keith.. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: What does 'shadows' mean?
Hi from Beautiful Brittany, Keith wrote : ...did you mean 'eclipse', Francis? Keith, occult has three forms : 1 (noun) 2 (adjective) 3 ( verb) As shadows was used in the VERB form, I suggested replacing it with the VERB form of occult , which means what I said it means. Latin occultus, from past participle of the VERB occulere which means to cover up. Your definition of occult - in the NOUN form, is, OF COURSE, correct. The VERB form of eclipse means to reduce in importance or repute, which, as a replacement for the VERB shadows is incorrect, although the NOUN form of eclipse is equivalent to the VERB form of occult, but then, nouns and verbs ain't quite the same .:) I love English, because of its complexity . -Francis ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: What does 'shadows' mean?
...ah, nice try Francis but I too have not only a dictionary but also the higher authority - Pink Floyd's 'Dark Side of the Moon', which closes with the song Eclipse... and everything under the sun is in tune but the sun is eclipsed by the moon ...boom, boom...boom, boom... So, in the spirit of friendly pedantry, I meant eclipse in its verb form, pertaining to your reference to celestial bodies...eclipse (verb) '(of a celestial body) obscure the light from or to (another celestial body)' - via latin from the Greek ekleipsis, from ekleipein which means to leave out. Then again, one of the more pedantic voices in my head might argue that the reference to celestial bodies is equally wrong for both occult and eclipse. There is no doubt that some LC apps may be of stellar quality, but there are no physical celestial bodies involved - nor indeed is there any usable depth dimension of space within a 2D display in which any such celestial 'cover ups', 'passages between' (or indeed shadows) might play out their fleeting existence. And as for the sources of illumination involved, lest we forget, There is no dark side of the moon really. Matter of fact it's all dark. (a bit like the LiveCode installer UI!) So, I must concur with the love of English - not only for its complexity but in the ability to be incorrect in so many ways - rather like my approach to LC programming! ;-) Best, Keith.. On 12 Oct 2011, at 15:55, Francis Nugent Dixon wrote: Hi from Beautiful Brittany, Keith wrote : ...did you mean 'eclipse', Francis? Keith, occult has three forms : 1 (noun) 2 (adjective) 3 ( verb) As shadows was used in the VERB form, I suggested replacing it with the VERB form of occult , which means what I said it means. Latin occultus, from past participle of the VERB occulere which means to cover up. Your definition of occult - in the NOUN form, is, OF COURSE, correct. The VERB form of eclipse means to reduce in importance or repute, which, as a replacement for the VERB shadows is incorrect, although the NOUN form of eclipse is equivalent to the VERB form of occult, but then, nouns and verbs ain't quite the same .:) I love English, because of its complexity . -Francis ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: What does 'shadows' mean?
This is why I tell people to always listen to what I mean, and not what I say. Bob On Oct 12, 2011, at 9:13 AM, Keith Clarke wrote: ...ah, nice try Francis but I too have not only a dictionary but also the higher authority - Pink Floyd's 'Dark Side of the Moon', which closes with the song Eclipse... and everything under the sun is in tune but the sun is eclipsed by the moon ...boom, boom...boom, boom... So, in the spirit of friendly pedantry, I meant eclipse in its verb form, pertaining to your reference to celestial bodies...eclipse (verb) '(of a celestial body) obscure the light from or to (another celestial body)' - via latin from the Greek ekleipsis, from ekleipein which means to leave out. Then again, one of the more pedantic voices in my head might argue that the reference to celestial bodies is equally wrong for both occult and eclipse. There is no doubt that some LC apps may be of stellar quality, but there are no physical celestial bodies involved - nor indeed is there any usable depth dimension of space within a 2D display in which any such celestial 'cover ups', 'passages between' (or indeed shadows) might play out their fleeting existence. And as for the sources of illumination involved, lest we forget, There is no dark side of the moon really. Matter of fact it's all dark. (a bit like the LiveCode installer UI!) So, I must concur with the love of English - not only for its complexity but in the ability to be incorrect in so many ways - rather like my approach to LC programming! ;-) Best, Keith.. On 12 Oct 2011, at 15:55, Francis Nugent Dixon wrote: Hi from Beautiful Brittany, Keith wrote : ...did you mean 'eclipse', Francis? Keith, occult has three forms : 1 (noun) 2 (adjective) 3 ( verb) As shadows was used in the VERB form, I suggested replacing it with the VERB form of occult , which means what I said it means. Latin occultus, from past participle of the VERB occulere which means to cover up. Your definition of occult - in the NOUN form, is, OF COURSE, correct. The VERB form of eclipse means to reduce in importance or repute, which, as a replacement for the VERB shadows is incorrect, although the NOUN form of eclipse is equivalent to the VERB form of occult, but then, nouns and verbs ain't quite the same .:) I love English, because of its complexity . -Francis ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: What does 'shadows' mean?
Hi from beautiful Brittany, Shadows is a bit of a misnomer, and is confusing. I think the term occult would be better :) OCCULT Referring to the event in which one celestial body passes in front of another, blocking it from view . and I rather like the idea of global variables being considered as celestial bodies Tongue in cheek ! -Francis Nothing should ever be done for the first time ! ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: What does 'shadows' mean?
...did you mean 'eclipse', Francis? Isn't 'occult' more to do with supernatural, mystical or magical beliefs and practices - in other words, the initiation rites of the high priests of the great message path! ;-) Best, Keith.. On 11 Oct 2011, at 10:29, Francis Nugent Dixon wrote: Hi from beautiful Brittany, Shadows is a bit of a misnomer, and is confusing. I think the term occult would be better :) OCCULT Referring to the event in which one celestial body passes in front of another, blocking it from view . and I rather like the idea of global variables being considered as celestial bodies Tongue in cheek ! -Francis Nothing should ever be done for the first time ! ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
What does 'shadows' mean?
Working on a script I've been using for some time, I just got a compilation error for the local definition of a variable called t1. The error was: local: name shadows another variable or constant The only meaning I can put to this is that I had already defined this variable either as a local, global or constant in the current script - but searching the script shows that I haven't. Also since I'm using explicit variables, when I delete the (only) definition of t1, I get the usual error warning me the name is undefined. So 'shadow' must mean something else. I've tinkered around but I can't make the error go away. Can anyone tell me what I did wrong? Doubtless it's some kind of finger trouble. TIA Graham ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: What does 'shadows' mean?
You're right - it does (normally) mean that the variable you are trying to declare shares a name with a previously declared variable. No idea why you're getting it in this case. Poor ideas : - If you like, send me the script and I'll look to see if it fails here - try it in an earlier (or later) version of LC - change every occurrence to 't2' and see what happens. -- Alex. On 10/10/2011 11:01, Graham Samuel wrote: Working on a script I've been using for some time, I just got a compilation error for the local definition of a variable called t1. The error was: local: name shadows another variable or constant The only meaning I can put to this is that I had already defined this variable either as a local, global or constant in the current script - but searching the script shows that I haven't. Also since I'm using explicit variables, when I delete the (only) definition of t1, I get the usual error warning me the name is undefined. So 'shadow' must mean something else. I've tinkered around but I can't make the error go away. Can anyone tell me what I did wrong? Doubtless it's some kind of finger trouble. TIA Graham ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: What does 'shadows' mean?
Hmmm - a bit of a long shot, but worth trying. I recently discovered that even when 'explicit variables' is turned on, you don't always need to declare a variable !! I thought this was a bug, and reported it, but the official reply was that this is intended behaviour. Seems wrong to me, but apparently that's the way it is. If a variable is used as a repeat loop control variable (e.g. repeat for each key K in , etc.) then it is *implicitly* declared for you, and won't cause an error even if explicit variables is on. And then, if you subsequently do declare a variable with that name, then you get the shadows another variable error. For example, (the entire script) on abc repeat with t1 = 1 to 10 -- do nothing end repeat local t1 put asd into t1 end abc t1 is implicitly declared in line 2, and then line 5 produces an error. Turning off explicit variables fixes the error. I'm not quite sure if that could cause your problem, but it's another thing to check for. -- Alex. On 10/10/2011 11:56, Alex Tweedly wrote: You're right - it does (normally) mean that the variable you are trying to declare shares a name with a previously declared variable. No idea why you're getting it in this case. Poor ideas : - If you like, send me the script and I'll look to see if it fails here - try it in an earlier (or later) version of LC - change every occurrence to 't2' and see what happens. -- Alex. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
RE: What does 'shadows' mean?
I have had this problem in the past and still do now and again. It seems to rear its ugly head when doing a lot of variable adding/deleting/renaming during development, but I have not been able to identify the exact circumstances to reproduce. I am running on the IDE on XP. Sometimes closing LC will fix it, other times the only way I found to fix it was to rename the variable. I think this is a bug. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services Phone: 518-636-3998 Ex:11 Cell: 518-796-9332 -Original Message- From: use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Graham Samuel Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 6:02 AM To: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Subject: What does 'shadows' mean? Working on a script I've been using for some time, I just got a compilation error for the local definition of a variable called t1. The error was: local: name shadows another variable or constant The only meaning I can put to this is that I had already defined this variable either as a local, global or constant in the current script - but searching the script shows that I haven't. Also since I'm using explicit variables, when I delete the (only) definition of t1, I get the usual error warning me the name is undefined. So 'shadow' must mean something else. I've tinkered around but I can't make the error go away. Can anyone tell me what I did wrong? Doubtless it's some kind of finger trouble. TIA Graham ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: What does 'shadows' mean?
If you read the article I posted the link to, it could be that you put a stack into use after a while. Only then would the variable be shadowing. On Oct 10, 2011, at 11:26 AM, Ralph DiMola wrote: Sometimes closing LC will fix it, other times the only way I found to fix it was to rename the variable. I think this is a bug. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: What does 'shadows' mean?
On Oct 10, 2011, at 11:26 AM, Ralph DiMola wrote: I have had this problem in the past and still do now and again. It seems to rear its ugly head when doing a lot of variable adding/deleting/ renaming during development, but I have not been able to identify the exact circumstances to reproduce. I am running on the IDE on XP. Sometimes closing LC will fix it, other times the only way I found to fix it was to rename the variable. I think this is a bug. If you inspect the Variable Watcher window in debug mode at the top of each handler, you should see a double entry when a shadow condition is true. Place a debug checkpoint at the top of each handler. By stepping through you could determine the exact line that creates the condition, as well as follow the handler calls that show locals and globals. My naming convention is globals start with 'z' so that they all list at the bottom of VWatcher script locals start with 'x' so they are all listed above the globals then locals, params, loop vars have 'normal' names and appear in the top section. As an additional note, you can view all of the globals you have created by simply viewing 'Variables' without being in debugging mode. Hope this helps. Jim Ault ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: What does 'shadows' mean?
Thanks to all who replied. My problem was solved by restarting the IDE, and I think Colin's explanation was a very clear one - it is a bug IMO but perhaps not a very serious one. On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 09:37:48 -0400, Colin Holgate co...@verizon.net wrote: Here you go, an entire article on the topic: http://www.runrevplanet.com/index.php?option=com_contentview=articleid=150:52-tips-in-as-many-weeks-tip-23catid=57:tip-of-the-weekItemid=65 Alex, I have also noticed that loop variables (I normally use i,j,k etc) are implicitly declared, which does indeed seem an anomaly, even if a useful one. Probably deserves a note in the dictionary entry for 'repeat'. Alex Tweedly wrote: I recently discovered that even when 'explicit variables' is turned on, you don't always need to declare a variable !! I thought this was a bug, and reported it, but the official reply was that this is intended behaviour. Seems wrong to me, but apparently that's the way it is. If a variable is used as a repeat loop control variable (e.g. repeat for each key K in , etc.) then it is *implicitly* declared for you, and won't cause an error even if explicit variables is on. And then, if you subsequently do declare a variable with that name, then you get the shadows another variable error. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
